--- Log opened Mon Aug 25 00:00:20 2025
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00:07 < fenn> so this is a thing, but only for dogs? https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/63f388b662651024a412fb55/dc44308c-27ac-47d6-8d67-e8c167f0605a/banner+v2.jpg
00:07 < fenn> "canine hydrotherapy treadmill"
00:10 < fenn> looks simultaneously extremely expensive and also not that hard to build https://www.hydroworx.com/content/uploads/2015/09/HydroWorx-350-Series.jpg
00:15 < fenn> i guess you could just lift weights in the shower
00:15 < fenn> with appropriate non-slip stickers
00:32 < fenn> get a barrel of CR2032 lithium coin batteries for $10 (12,000 batteries!) https://batteryhookup.com/collections/pallet-deals/products/12-400-3v-lithium-cr2032-coin-batteries
00:33 < fenn> must pick up in Bensalem, PA
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03:56 < fenn> the list of thoughtcrime is getting exceedingly long https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Academic_Journals/Journals_cited_by_Wikipedia/Questionable1
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06:51 < hprmbridge> nmz787> @Eli there are several chip companies in china that are making chips that are really only a few years behind tsmc/intel. Plus the algorithms (hard/circuits and soft) are clearly bounded by the efficiency of the human brain (i recently read 12 watts) so clearly the architecture is limited here not the feature size (in my opinion). They have a lot of potential to squeeze out of their current home
06:51 < hprmbridge> nmz787> grown situation.
07:04 < fenn> the hardware is not bounded by the efficiency of the human brain
07:05 < fenn> not having to self-reproduce, endure injuries and infections, self-repair, implement instincts and biases in hardware, can result in far more elegant and simple designs
07:07 < fenn> consider for example a metamaterial that implements feedforward networks passively by propagating light waves
08:00 < hprmbridge> kanzure> "Non-invasive temporal interference electrical stimulation of the human hippocampus" https://www.nature.com/articles/s41593-023-01456-8
08:01 < hprmbridge> kanzure> "Non-invasive stimulation methods, such as transcranial magnetic stimulation and transcranial electrical stimulation (tES), have been used in many human clinical investigations [11,12]. However, their ability to directly stimulate deeper brain structures is achieved at the expense of inducing stronger stimulation of the overlying cortical areas, resulting in unanticipated side effects that can
08:01 < hprmbridge> kanzure> approach the limits of safety guidelines [13]. We recently reported a strategy for sculpting electrical fields to enable focused yet non-invasive neural stimulation at depth[14,15]. The strategy is based on delivering multiple electric fields to the brain at different kHz frequencies, which are too high to drive effective neural firing. The envelope amplitude of the combined field is modulated at
08:01 < hprmbridge> kanzure> the difference frequency, between the kHz fields, and set low enough to drive neural activity. Neural stimulation will occur at the targeted region, at the difference frequency, where the amplitude of the electric field envelope modulation is larger (Fig. 1a). We call this strategy temporal interference (TI) stimulation since the interference of multiple electric fields enables its focality. Since
08:01 < hprmbridge> kanzure> the magnitude of the envelope modulation depends on the relative amplitude and orientation of the applied electric fields, the stimulation locus (that is, the envelope modulation peak) can be focused remotely from the electrodes. The stimulation locus can also be steered toward one electrode pair by reducing its relative amplitude (the envelope modulation is typically proportional to the field
08:01 < hprmbridge> kanzure> with the lower amplitude)[14]."
08:07 < hprmbridge> nmz787> Fenn  what I mean is we should be able to get at least that much power reduction
09:03 < hprmbridge> kanzure> for in utero electroporation or optogenetic shaping of fetal development, i think the obvious targets are the dorsolateral prefrontal cortex (brodmann areas 9 and 46) because it's superficially available at the middle/superior frontal gyri of the lateral frontal convexity, and also the superior parietal lobule at the gyrus above the intraparietal sulcus on the dorsal parietal convexity. the
09:03 < hprmbridge> kanzure> intraparietal sulcus is hiding about 10 mm in a groove and lining a sulcal bank.
09:04 < hprmbridge> kanzure> strangely, prior work has targeted hippocampus which IIRC is deeper
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10:35 < hprmbridge> Eli> Yeah, we need a nuclear reactor to train an llm. We need macaroni and cheese to train a 6 year old. We are clearly missing something.
10:37 < hprmbridge> nmz787> Except you can't let millions of people ask the same 6 year old questions
10:38 < hprmbridge> Eli> Good point
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11:54 < kanzure> "In ovo administration of recombinant human insulin-like growth factor-I alters postnatal growth and development of the broiler chicken" https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0032579119412509 (1998)
11:55 < kanzure> some reviews of "in ovo feeding" https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0032579119303451 https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8632539/
11:55 < kanzure> "IGF-1 infusion increases growth in fetal sheep when euinsulinemia is maintained" https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11212460/
12:08 < kanzure> according to LLM slop: ... apparently the standard of care for human fetal growth restriction is maternal intramuscular injection of corticosteroids like betamethasone or dexamethasone for the purposs of fetal lung maturation in anticipation of pre-term birth; supplementation with magnesium sulfate for fetal neuroprotection if significantly-pre-term delivery is expected. no evidence from my ...
12:09 < kanzure> ...limited literature search that we use IGF-1 to rescue fetuses on poor growth trajectories. wtf?
12:10 < kanzure> this 2024 review on human fetal growth restriction says "Currently, there are no known treatment interventions that effectively enhance placental function and promote fetal weight development" https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11278205/ are we just fucking retarded
12:11 < kanzure> oh but we're not retarded enough to think maybe we should growth factor supplementation in preterm infants https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6389415/ (2019 phase 2 randomized controlled trial); i'm not at all convinced that you would see better effects from post-term dosing as opposed to pre-term dosing.
12:19 < jrayhawk> yeah that sounds difficult to get past IRB and/or into standard of care
12:19 < kanzure> would maternal IGF doping work?
13:22 < kanzure> hrm, FDA allows cattle hormone implants for growth but disallows poultry growth hormones in feedstock or implants.
13:28 < kanzure> what?
13:38 < kanzure> https://www.duanemorris.com/alerts/montana_set_become_wild_west_hub_experimental_medical_treatments_therapies_0525.html
13:47 < kanzure> some history about FDA, hormones, beef and poultry that i'm not going to read https://macmillan.yale.edu/sites/default/files/files/colloqpapers/05langston.pdf
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15:00 < hprmbridge> kanzure> "Transplanted interneurons improve memory precision after traumatic brain injury" https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-019-13170-w (2019)
15:08 < hprmbridge> kanzure> maybe 8 years ago, i mentioned a paper in here about human neurons engrafted into mouse pup brains either in utero or after birth. including, IIRC, improved cognitive faculty of some kind. section 1 of this 2023 study has some nice references to related work since then: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10093207/
15:14 < hprmbridge> kanzure> many sperm banks do not show sperm donor profile pictures to their customers. this sounds completely absurd.
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16:10 < hprmbridge> kanzure> https://molicaca.github.io/atlas/chimp_atlas.html
16:10 < hprmbridge> kanzure> https://atlas.brainnetome.org/download.html
16:14 < hprmbridge> kanzure> "Hopkins et al. (2014) recently showed that chimpanzee intelligence “g” was significantly heritable, and this was found in apes that had been reared by their conspecific mother or in a human nursery setting for the first 3 years of life. Thus social learning does not seem to be the most parsimonious explanation for the heritability, thereby further reinforcing the view that biological factors may
16:14 < hprmbridge> kanzure> underlie individual differences in intelligence, not just in humans, but also in other primate species."
16:14 < hprmbridge> kanzure> cortical thickness wins again, no surprises
16:17 < hprmbridge> kanzure> "Chimpanzee intelligence is heritable" https://www.cell.com/current-biology/fulltext/S0960-9822(14)00677-0
16:20 < hprmbridge> kanzure> both cortical thickness and surface area (more folds pls) https://web.archive.org/web/20190303201947id_/http://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/cf79/917a05347b42653e368db54e75459a45be9a.pdf
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17:51 < L29Ah> jrayhawk: https://www.nature.com/articles/srep31649 apparently ALA is not that simple
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--- Log closed Tue Aug 26 00:00:21 2025