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| kanzure | Hi epitron. | 07:42 |
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| faceface | just lurking | 09:04 |
| faceface | !help | 09:05 |
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| kanzure | Hm. | 17:41 |
| drazak | mmmmmmm b5 | 17:50 |
| kanzure | Why didn't the newspaper guys at the school talk to me before publishing this today? | 17:56 |
| kanzure | http://heybryan.org/school/2008-04-11_school_newspaper_nanotech.html | 17:56 |
| kanzure | Assholes. | 17:56 |
| fenn | because that would conflict with their journalistic integrity of giving only conflicting viewpoints | 18:36 |
| fenn | did you go to the cyclify austin thing? | 18:39 |
| kanzure | no, my dad wasn't feeling well and he still wants to me to drive with him places, don't know why | 19:03 |
| kanzure | they didn't represent or clearly delineate conflicting viewpoints | 19:03 |
| kanzure | in fact, I don't think they had a solid idea in that article | 19:03 |
| fenn | does your school have a website yet? newspaper seems a little old-fashioned | 19:06 |
| fenn | but, so does prussian-style schooling | 19:06 |
| kanzure | http://hayscisd.net/ | 19:07 |
| kanzure | http://rebelslibrary.com/ | 19:08 |
| fenn | 10 reasons the internet is no subsitute for a library: | 19:10 |
| fenn | 1) internet isnt allowed in school | 19:10 |
| fenn | 2) if it were, you wouldnt be allowed to use it | 19:10 |
| fenn | 3) if you managed to finagle access anyway, you wouldnt be allowed to do anything fun or useful | 19:10 |
| fenn | 4) because i said so | 19:11 |
| fenn | 5) are you still here? | 19:11 |
| kanzure | yes, that was retarded | 19:11 |
| kanzure | the library has 35 computers that we use during the lunch hours | 19:11 |
| fenn | The following are prohibited: ... Downloads of any kind. | 19:11 |
| kanzure | yeah | 19:11 |
| kanzure | I want to stab them for that | 19:11 |
| fenn | clearly, you have violated library policy | 19:11 |
| fenn | downloader! | 19:12 |
| kanzure | I wouldn't think it was possible, but it gets worse | 19:12 |
| fenn | do they actually sell floppy disks? | 19:12 |
| fenn | do computers still come with floppy drives? | 19:12 |
| kanzure | those do | 19:13 |
| kanzure | it's technically cheaper to claim that you lost a flash drive to them | 19:13 |
| kanzure | because they always have a few that people are dropping | 19:13 |
| fenn | and then you get the indecent thrill of looking through someone else's homework | 19:13 |
| kanzure | sure | 19:13 |
| kanzure | it's kind of sad though | 19:13 |
| kanzure | a few months ago I was doing some work in the library and the librarians came up to Andrew (brother) a few computers over, | 19:14 |
| kanzure | and they were trying to convince him that what he wanted to find on the internet could be found in books | 19:14 |
| kanzure | I believe he was looking up the embryological evolutionary development of anthropods | 19:14 |
| fenn | did they know about the google project? | 19:14 |
| kanzure | from experience of browsing the indices of the library (just for the hell of it) - I know they do not have this information. | 19:15 |
| kanzure | nope, | 19:15 |
| kanzure | they were completely sure that Andrew was just a stupid kid who didn't want to open his eyes to the books | 19:15 |
| kanzure | but it's just the opposite: they are stupid librarians not opening their eyes to the information accessibility | 19:15 |
| fenn | well, sometimes i get annoyed by people who use myspace instead of email | 19:16 |
| fenn | i'm actually not sure which is technically inferior | 19:16 |
| kanzure | sure, there's lots of students that try to sneak in and check their myspace.com accounts | 19:16 |
| kanzure | the AP literature blog - http://hhsaplit.wordpress.com/ | 19:16 |
| fenn | are you allowed to have a cellphone in your posession? | 19:17 |
| fenn | it would be an interesting political experiment to provide covert wifi coverage to your school | 19:17 |
| kanzure | well, | 19:18 |
| kanzure | here's how this goes down | 19:18 |
| kanzure | they crack down on mp3 players, ipods, cell phones, anything that is handheld and electronic basically | 19:18 |
| kanzure | however students can sneak in some text messages and so on | 19:18 |
| kanzure | the wifi internet is only for (1) the blind (1 student in the entire school) and (2) the mobile 'laptop cart' (30 Dell notebooks); not even the teachers can wire up their laptops to the internet | 19:19 |
| kanzure | (so I carry around ethernet with me so that in the rare occurence that I am relocated to a room with a free, activated ethernet port, I can get some serious work done) | 19:19 |
| kanzure | I've managed to sneak into the networking room twice, both times by playing the "oops, I dropped something underneath the door" trick on the janitors | 19:20 |
| kanzure | hoping to plug in the wall outlets from the classes I visit, but not having enough time before arousing suspicion | 19:20 |
| kanzure | (the wall outlets are numbered in each of the rooms, I know that I'd really like B-099 to be activated) | 19:21 |
| fenn | so, you could sneak in a wifi router theoretically | 19:21 |
| kanzure | right | 19:21 |
| kanzure | but I'd need a teacher's cooperation | 19:21 |
| kanzure | I could just plug it in to a teacher's ethernet port | 19:21 |
| kanzure | I don't think they would be able to figure out where to look | 19:22 |
| fenn | yeah you'd need some clever maneuvering with a laptop and signal strength meter | 19:22 |
| kanzure | right | 19:22 |
| kanzure | but luckily many of my classes are localized during the day | 19:22 |
| kanzure | they have me going in circles | 19:22 |
| kanzure | personally, I find this to be inexcusable behavior on the part of the administrators | 19:23 |
| kanzure | there's no way they can think that they have hired the best of the best in teachers | 19:23 |
| kanzure | and of course that's not their goal | 19:23 |
| kanzure | but for some of us we want to get work done | 19:23 |
| kanzure | speaking of which ... the valedictorian is somewhat of a polygamist druggie, so a few of us are opting to write his speech for him. I'll throw it up on a wiki soon and get down to business. I want to throw in some clever punches to the school system. "I am glad that I have had the pleasure of being so wonderfully confined for the past 12 years of my life, this has really worked out well" etc. | 19:24 |
| fenn | heh polygamy is the default in high school isnt it? | 19:25 |
| kanzure | dunno, I never was able to get signed up for that | 19:25 |
| fenn | meh | 19:25 |
| fenn | people change when they get out of prison | 19:26 |
| kanzure | Texas has great homeschooling laws, the only reason I am still in high school is because (1) my dad has given me financial incentive (college money) to stay in hgih school, and (2) I've been too much of a pussy to run away. | 19:28 |
| kanzure | what we've all known about voting (party identification trends, people not knowing what the party member really represents) - http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=518564;cid=23031202 | 19:29 |
| fenn | well, free rent and college money sounds like an ok deal i guess | 19:29 |
| kanzure | maybe | 19:29 |
| kanzure | in exchange for immense psychological suffering? | 19:29 |
| kanzure | I'm at the top of my game during the school day, only to come home to try to kick myself up the hill, it sucks | 19:29 |
| fenn | why are you going to UT? | 19:30 |
| kanzure | only two schools accepted me: wisc.edu and utexas.edu | 19:30 |
| kanzure | utexas because it's cheap and I was supposedly going to get a lab spot over the summer with Andy's lab | 19:30 |
| fenn | i mean, why are you doing undergrad | 19:30 |
| fenn | its more of the same, BTDT | 19:30 |
| kanzure | skip undergrad completely? | 19:30 |
| kanzure | BDT? | 19:30 |
| kanzure | *BTDT? | 19:30 |
| fenn | been there done that | 19:30 |
| kanzure | what are my options? | 19:31 |
| fenn | uh, well, i dunno really | 19:31 |
| kanzure | I need some hard lab experience | 19:31 |
| fenn | why? | 19:31 |
| kanzure | for people to take me slightly more seriously, I think | 19:31 |
| kanzure | and from what I can tell, you sort of have to be attending the university in order to count | 19:31 |
| kanzure | * in order to get in | 19:31 |
| kanzure | to a lab | 19:31 |
| kanzure | I hope I am wrong. | 19:31 |
| fenn | hm. well, ask ellington and see if its possible to skip undergrad in all or in part | 19:32 |
| kanzure | doesn't that sound kinda foolish | 19:32 |
| fenn | how much is 3 years worth to you? | 19:32 |
| kanzure | every second | 19:32 |
| fenn | did you do AP yet? | 19:33 |
| fenn | there are lots of departmental tests you can take to get credit or have requirements waived | 19:34 |
| kanzure | yeah, of course | 19:34 |
| fenn | many of them are not advertised | 19:34 |
| kanzure | I've been doing AP for yars | 19:34 |
| kanzure | *years | 19:34 |
| fenn | you have to go pester some departmental chair | 19:34 |
| kanzure | you can see my reviews on my sites, I collected 10k links per class and then did a recurse through a good number of them | 19:34 |
| kanzure | yeah, I'll definitely look into that | 19:34 |
| kanzure | I was planning on going to their summer orientation session | 19:34 |
| fenn | honestly, you know more than most college grads, but dont let it go to your head | 19:35 |
| kanzure | where I'd finalize some course work schedules or whatever, ask if I can "design my own course" (UT doesn't allow this, but I'll ask anyway) | 19:35 |
| kanzure | and then I was planning on doing a recursion through the syllabus guides | 19:35 |
| kanzure | I just need to impress the right people, I think | 19:36 |
| fenn | the right people could care less | 19:36 |
| fenn | the people you can impress are not going to be able to do anything | 19:36 |
| fenn | so you will have to work with the people you can impress to convince the crusty old administrators to do stuff | 19:37 |
| fenn | that takes effort on everyone's part so they will not want to do it | 19:37 |
| fenn | so you have to convince them that it's worth helping you | 19:37 |
| fenn | (a slightly harder problem) | 19:38 |
| fenn | gah taxes are so stupid | 19:38 |
| kanzure | hm | 19:40 |
| kanzure | I see. | 19:40 |
| kanzure | "I'm still amused by those who insist content more valuable than the means of accessing it." | 19:42 |
| fenn | um, what? those are like, orthogonal | 19:42 |
| kanzure | as in -> | 19:43 |
| kanzure | argh | 19:43 |
| kanzure | copy/paste error | 19:43 |
| fenn | accessible content is worth more in value, less in money | 19:43 |
| kanzure | as in, access method to some extent determines the content that will be accessed | 19:43 |
| fenn | s/value/utility/ | 19:43 |
| kanzure | anyway, I have some time open this summer if I don't get that lab spot | 19:50 |
| kanzure | so this will be an optimal time to get some things lined up and in order | 19:50 |
| kanzure | fenn: http://www.kurtz-fernhout.com/pointrel/ relationship specification system? | 19:56 |
| fenn | i dont really get it - why three? why not use class inheritance to describe relationships? | 20:03 |
| fenn | "thats nice but whats it good for" | 20:04 |
| kanzure | http://sourceforge.net/project/screenshots.php?group_id=6010 | 20:04 |
| kanzure | don't know | 20:05 |
| fenn | cycorp had something like 'first 50 million triplets free' on their website, which it nagging at me | 20:05 |
| fenn | oh look, text i cant read, great | 20:06 |
| fenn | hey i can read "BFI Challenge" | 20:06 |
| fenn | that's funny | 20:06 |
| fenn | those fuckers never even wrote me back | 20:08 |
| fenn | design science revolution is cool though | 20:16 |
| kanzure | heh | 20:25 |
| kanzure | I was reading the BFI challenge site recently too | 20:25 |
| kanzure | but it looks like they want something more concrete than what I can provide at the moment | 20:25 |
| kanzure | fenn: what's your current situation? out of college? | 20:35 |
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| fenn | kanzure: yep, pretty much, realized college was BS halfway through and decided to finish anyway, now i'm sort of coasting on money i was supposed to spend on college but didnt because i'm cheap | 22:59 |
| kanzure | neat | 22:59 |
| fenn | did a bit of sysadmin perlmongering and hated it | 22:59 |
| kanzure | so if I get a startup going and have some funding, you'd be interested in seeing if it could work out for you? | 22:59 |
| fenn | depends what it is | 22:59 |
| kanzure | ok, but it's not out of the question | 23:00 |
| fenn | yes i'd be interested | 23:00 |
| kanzure | how much does it take to coast, anyway? | 23:01 |
| kanzure | because I have a five digit number coming up for college funds | 23:01 |
| fenn | do you really want to know? :) | 23:01 |
| kanzure | sure | 23:01 |
| fenn | well, food is free from dumpsters, and you really only need a sleeping bag and a plastic sheet | 23:02 |
| kanzure | what about your metal shop? | 23:02 |
| fenn | i happen to live in a house, and rent+bills is about $220, but its a rather "choice" situation, takes a while to find that sort of thing | 23:03 |
| fenn | metal shop is crap from harbor freight.. dunno, i probably have spent about $2000 there | 23:03 |
| fenn | and $800 on the atlas lathe | 23:03 |
| kanzure | that's not bad | 23:03 |
| kanzure | my mom runs a woodworking shop | 23:03 |
| kanzure | she's spent significantly more than $2800 on it | 23:03 |
| kanzure | and she's a deal hunter ;) | 23:03 |
| fenn | my estimate may be off by a lot | 23:04 |
| fenn | i will figure it out when i get my computerized inventory database set up | 23:04 |
| kanzure | $220 is pretty good | 23:05 |
| fenn | um, it's more than just a cost database, it's searchable and tells you where to find stuff | 23:05 |
| fenn | yep, at one point i was paying $50 for rent, but we had like 10 people living here | 23:06 |
| fenn | big old farm house with fields around it | 23:06 |
| kanzure | big old farm house ... with internet access? hehe | 23:07 |
| fenn | actually.. there is a fiber optic cable right across the street | 23:07 |
| kanzure | a steal. | 23:07 |
| fenn | you can open up this little door in the ground and see a room full of server racks and telephone equipment | 23:07 |
| fenn | we thought the phone company vans were spying on us because they were always parked over there doing apparently nothing | 23:08 |
| fenn | so, now the brouhaha is filing for 501c(3) status so people can give us money for being cool | 23:09 |
| kanzure | huh? | 23:10 |
| kanzure | how would that work? | 23:10 |
| kanzure | do you actually do anything ? | 23:10 |
| kanzure | heh | 23:10 |
| kanzure | I mean, that people would give money for? | 23:10 |
| fenn | well, people have all this excess money that they can give away, and basically it's redirecting money away form the gov't | 23:10 |
| kanzure | ah, for donations | 23:10 |
| fenn | we would be doing 'educational outreach' | 23:11 |
| kanzure | neat | 23:11 |
| fenn | today discussed about how people have land-lines that they never use, and how to utilize those as a distributed skype-ish last mile POTS network bridge | 23:12 |
| fenn | phone lines | 23:12 |
| fenn | say you're in europe and you want to call indiana | 23:12 |
| fenn | you skype over the net to my server, which picks up the modem and dials a local indiana number | 23:13 |
| fenn | since i'm not using the phone line, it's no sweat off my back. but need lots of them | 23:13 |
| kanzure | I believe that's, ah, autoasterisk | 23:13 |
| kanzure | asterisk project or something | 23:13 |
| fenn | asterisk does a lot of crap | 23:13 |
| fenn | anyway, it would be cool to figure out how to promote this and possibly take advantage of it | 23:14 |
| kanzure | wait, wouldn't they be on your bill? | 23:15 |
| kanzure | phone bill? | 23:15 |
| kanzure | unless local calls are free | 23:15 |
| kanzure | then you only need bandwidth to scale up | 23:15 |
| kanzure | so that's paying for new wires to be put in, yes? | 23:15 |
| fenn | no, we dont buy any hardware, expansion works by distributing the software to other people who want to take part | 23:17 |
| kanzure | hm | 23:17 |
| kanzure | yes, that'd work | 23:17 |
| fenn | see, you have to sign up for telephone service if you want DSL | 23:18 |
| fenn | so you get this useless phone line | 23:18 |
| kanzure | hah | 23:18 |
| fenn | weird isnt it | 23:18 |
| fenn | phone company unwittingly causing its own demise | 23:19 |
| kanzure | it's too bad we can't get people to pull their own fiber optic cabling | 23:20 |
| kanzure | if it drops packages, that's ok, the internet routes around that sort of damage | 23:20 |
| fenn | nah, wireless mesh network is a zillion times cheaper and more resilient | 23:21 |
| fenn | only downside is latency | 23:21 |
| kanzure | well, I was thinking the same | 23:21 |
| kanzure | but I want self-replicating mesh nodes | 23:21 |
| kanzure | on the other hand, taking over the HAM frequencies might be worth it | 23:21 |
| fenn | there's also optical and IR and more | 23:22 |
| kanzure | ronja needs to include DIY laser instructions ;) | 23:22 |
| fenn | TEA laser router? :P | 23:23 |
| kanzure | yep | 23:23 |
| fenn | do not stare into router with remaining eye | 23:23 |
| fenn | fluorescent light might be fast enough | 23:24 |
| fenn | or some kind of corona discharge | 23:24 |
| fenn | then you get to worry about diy light detectors | 23:24 |
| kanzure | some sort of cheap photoamplifier | 23:25 |
| fenn | yeah, those two words dont go together | 23:25 |
| kanzure | or digital camera from walgreens | 23:25 |
| kanzure | hooked up to some software? | 23:25 |
| fenn | if you buy something might as well just buy some led's and photodiodes and be done with it | 23:25 |
| kanzure | I'm going to get some sleep, I'm being useless at the moment | 23:26 |
| kanzure | I need you to go over the todo notes I threw up yesterday and tell me if you can think of something else I should be doing tomorrow | 23:26 |
| kanzure | http;//heybryan.org/mediawiki/index.php/2008-04-10 has the list near the bottom somewhere | 23:26 |
| fenn | ok, will look, g'nite | 23:27 |
| kanzure | as expected, Wikipedia pulled my edits | 23:32 |
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