| --- Day changed Tue Apr 29 2008 | ||
| -!- marainein [n=marainei@220.253-200-40.VIC.netspace.net.au] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] | 00:28 | |
| fenn | from one of the orocos dev's: http://people.mech.kuleuven.be/~bruyninc/blender/roadmap.html | 00:34 |
|---|---|---|
| fenn | barcamp - neato | 00:38 |
| fenn | you should credit fernhout on your quotes page (otherwise it's not .. a quote) | 00:41 |
| fenn | the whole concept of distributed hash table is so sexy i cant believe we dont have a www based on it yet | 00:45 |
| * fenn grumbles about freenet | 00:47 | |
| kanzure | http://heybryan.org/exp.html refresh to see the Neil Gershenfeld quote I threw up | 01:02 |
| kanzure | it probably adds some much needed context. | 01:02 |
| fenn | i think video games are the only expressive medium which can really communicate this sort of idea | 01:04 |
| kanzure | oh? why's that? | 01:04 |
| fenn | movies dont have enough technological detail, explanation of rules and constraints. and books dont have enough 'feel' to them or artistic expression | 01:04 |
| kanzure | that's true, letting players strategically manage self-replicating machines might be easier | 01:07 |
| kanzure | oh right, biology, life itself, etc. | 01:07 |
| kanzure | maybe a way to make a 'game of life' that is true and controllable | 01:08 |
| kanzure | instead of managing a legion of cells on a micro level, something a bit more understandable and visible with more immediate results? | 01:08 |
| fenn | i'm talking about skdb and santa-claus machines | 01:09 |
| fenn | and possibly visions of asteroid belt colonization | 01:09 |
| fenn | have you seen the spore demo? | 01:09 |
| fenn | " When you change the nature of your tools, and especially the scale of production, you are dealing with a new set of rules, a new mode of production, a new industrial paradigm. You must design to suit because now you can’t make things in the same way and must arrive at the same practical results –the same performance– by a different engineering path. " | 01:12 |
| fenn | its this sort of change that people will definitely not understand by reading your book | 01:12 |
| kanzure | I am most certainly not against making video games, but I have to warn you that I have this terrible history of going all out when wanting to make a game, something that can match my own imaginings and so on ... very destructive history in this regard ;-) | 01:15 |
| kanzure | if you're going to make skdb in the first place | 01:15 |
| kanzure | then any video game would just be a simulator aspect | 01:15 |
| kanzure | with human interactive 'debugging' to watch situations unfold, no? | 01:15 |
| fenn | sort of.. it'd also be entertainment and foster community | 01:16 |
| fenn | better than some phpbb crap :) | 01:16 |
| kanzure | heh, no kidding | 01:17 |
| fenn | SL without the hipsters | 01:17 |
| * kanzure was hardcore and refused to use phpbb and instead wrote his own forums | 01:17 | |
| kanzure | from scratch | 01:17 |
| kanzure | which, in retrospect, wasn't that hard | 01:17 |
| kanzure | I just had to get over myself re: the queries to select from the database per a particular range based off of which page of results the user was on, but after I got over myself that was fine | 01:17 |
| fenn | yeah tat's standard cgi stuff | 01:18 |
| kanzure | I wish somebody would have been there to kick me in the ass to tell me that though | 01:18 |
| kanzure | hehe | 01:18 |
| * fenn would have found a better bb software out there | 01:18 | |
| kanzure | ikonboard, phpbb, invisionboard, infopop ubb, vbulletin, xmbb, yabb, | 01:19 |
| fenn | heh yabb | 01:19 |
| fenn | web forums all look the same to me | 01:20 |
| kanzure | somebody was on the openvirgle mailing list a few weeks ago saying "screw mailing lists, let's go to a forum" | 01:20 |
| kanzure | and I really wanted to punch him :( | 01:20 |
| fenn | noooo | 01:20 |
| kanzure | he claimed his expertise was that he had a degree in web design | 01:20 |
| fenn | forget threading, forget concurrency, forget content | 01:20 |
| kanzure | forget good interfaces | 01:21 |
| kanzure | HTTP over mysql - what's the point? Just let me tap into the database directly, that's what user accounts are for. | 01:21 |
| kanzure | and if not, then you need to add in hooks or something | 01:21 |
| fenn | for some reason web forums tend to promote 'chatty' posts | 01:21 |
| kanzure | I think it's just the culture that has caught on to it | 01:22 |
| kanzure | I was trapped in that culture for a long time | 01:22 |
| kanzure | http://heybryan.org/forums.html <-- but I only exploded once I realized that there was other stuff to talk about on various forums. | 01:22 |
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| -!- Splicer is now known as Biopunk | 18:50 | |
| Biopunk | ah... I thought the nick would only change in #biology | 18:52 |
| kanzure | Heh, no. | 18:54 |
| kanzure | What's up? | 18:54 |
| -!- kanzure changed the topic of #hplusroadmap to: http://heybryan.org/ http://heybryan.org/mediawiki/ http://heybryan.org/exp.html | krebs is now servicing the channel. try !help | 18:54 | |
| Biopunk | mmm.. not much.. work | 18:54 |
| Biopunk | you? | 18:55 |
| Biopunk | I noticed BrickIt today | 18:58 |
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| Biopunk | Reading "The art of memetics - pirate edition"... it has low signal to noise ratio. | 19:55 |
| Biopunk | ...and a lot of references to books on amazon with referral id:s attached ;) | 19:58 |
| Biopunk | fuck | 19:59 |
| Biopunk | I heard they had about 10k downloads a while ago... I wonder how much they make from it in referrals | 20:01 |
| kanzure | http://www.synbiosafe.eu | 20:07 |
| Biopunk | it looks balanced at a first glance | 20:11 |
| Biopunk | only bioDIY is not on that map either | 20:12 |
| Biopunk | a lot of new legislation is eu wide now... it's becoming one country with a lot of resources | 20:18 |
| kanzure | you should see my posts | 20:31 |
| Biopunk | http://www.google.com/trends?q=Genetically+modified+food+ | 20:31 |
| kanzure | They want to 'regulate' synbio, and I really wanted to laugh | 20:31 |
| Biopunk | posts where? | 20:31 |
| kanzure | How are they going to stop the natural course of evolution of the entire planet? | 20:31 |
| kanzure | http://synbiosafe.eu/forum/ | 20:31 |
| Biopunk | i think the rich/poor thing has to do with some french farmers and some strange legislation right now.. something about people not owning crops in their fields if it's mixed with gm crops. It was something weird but there was a debare about it. | 20:37 |
| Biopunk | It's also a common european thing i think... the rich/poor thing | 20:38 |
| Biopunk | I like the google trend curve on gm food, it gets half the amount of hits now compared to 2004 | 20:40 |
| kanzure | No, it's common all over the damn place | 20:40 |
| kanzure | http://heybryan.org/transhumanism_def.html deals with it too | 20:40 |
| Biopunk | It's not so easy, it's a big field and a lot of people from different memespaces want to carve a nitche... | 20:55 |
| Biopunk | when it comes to things like morality, everyone gets equal time | 20:56 |
| Biopunk | and traditionally that's been a big part of humanism | 20:57 |
| Biopunk | i kindof like to look at biopunk as amoral | 20:58 |
| Biopunk | the same way as memetics and rhethorc is amoral | 20:59 |
| Biopunk | i think that's the way you want to define transhumanism too | 21:00 |
| kanzure | uh? | 21:15 |
| kanzure | no, you mean "not dictated by the historical constraints of what has previously been considered to be 'moral'" | 21:16 |
| kanzure | Here's why - previously, a "moral" action would be to burn a loved one's dead body. WHAT THE FUCK. http://alcor.org/ | 21:16 |
| kanzure | huh, | 21:21 |
| Biopunk | yeah.. that would be one example why i like subcultures that are amoral... | 21:22 |
| Biopunk | morality is a moving target | 21:22 |
| kanzure | it's a personal thing, amoral mostly means "not moral" *both* in the sense of (1) not within the domain of current morality and (2) not possibly within the domain of your own morality [i.e., what you can personally control] | 21:23 |
| Biopunk | that would be 'immoral' i think | 21:23 |
| Biopunk | amoral means recognizing that morals are not applicable here | 21:24 |
| Biopunk | like that saying that planets orbit the sun is an amoral statement even though a church says it will weaken it's position and that will lead to bad things. | 21:26 |
| Biopunk | nature is, evolution is.. amoral | 21:26 |
| kanzure | that's not true, | 21:29 |
| kanzure | would you say that subjectivity is a part of the brain | 21:29 |
| kanzure | that one has this subjective experience of the world | 21:29 |
| kanzure | therefore, this 'subjectivity' is *real* and *natural*, whether you call it morality, ethics, virtues, principles, approaches, etc. | 21:30 |
| Biopunk | you mean 'we are part of nature -> we feel morality -> nature is moral'? | 21:33 |
| kanzure | no? | 21:35 |
| Biopunk | hmm | 21:35 |
| kanzure | I mean that people's subjective experiences are legitimate, they are *physical things* that are right there, they are truly thinking and feeling these thoughts and actions that lead them to say those weird things and so on that might not be technically accurate and so on | 21:35 |
| Biopunk | of course they are...to them at least, and at least until they think about something else. What I'm saying people want to mix them in where they don´t belong... many people have a hard time understanding that morals have absolutely nothing to do with rhetoric for instance. | 21:38 |
| Biopunk | I'm not saying people shouldn't take an intrest in morals. I'm just saying it's not my kink | 21:41 |
| Biopunk | ... it doesn´t belong a lot of places, like most of science for instance. | 21:43 |
| Biopunk | 'we are part of nature -> we feel morality -> nature is moral' | 21:46 |
| Biopunk | 'cheeses are round, the moon is round -> the moon is a cheese' | 21:46 |
| Biopunk | mmm.. bad one | 21:48 |
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| Biopunk | 'Some vehicles go 200mph, I have a bicycle -> my bicycle goes 200mph' | 21:51 |
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| Biopunk | We are part of nature, we feel morals -> nature has morals | 22:17 |
| Biopunk | Bicycles are vehicles, My bicycle is yellow -> Vehicles are yellow | 22:17 |
| Biopunk | time to sleep | 22:18 |
| Biopunk | nite | 22:18 |
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| kanzure | Hi Aulere. | 22:27 |
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| Biopunk | kanzure? | 22:29 |
| kanzure | hm? | 22:30 |
| Biopunk | have you seen the wikipedia 'synthetic biology' page? | 22:30 |
| kanzure | I don't think so, why? | 22:31 |
| Biopunk | you´re on it | 22:31 |
| kanzure | So are you. I put you there. | 22:31 |
| Biopunk | it was you? ;) thank you | 22:32 |
| Biopunk | nite | 22:32 |
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| Aulere | Hi Kanzure | 23:00 |
| kanzure | Hey there. What's up? | 23:01 |
| Aulere | Finals | 23:01 |
| Aulere | and me | 23:01 |
| Aulere | - I'm up all night these days | 23:01 |
| Aulere | Soon it will be over though. | 23:01 |
| Aulere | What's up with you? | 23:01 |
| kanzure | http://heybryan.org/exp.html | 23:19 |
| kanzure | http://heybryan.org/quotes.html | 23:19 |
| Aulere | fascinating | 23:27 |
| Aulere | I like the big picture vision | 23:29 |
| kanzure | Hehe. | 23:33 |
| kanzure | The email I cite at the bottom with Eric Hunting. Hm. Eric is able to do long, intense emails. I am trying to figure out how he does it. | 23:33 |
| Aulere | yeah, that is long | 23:37 |
| Aulere | hehe, "where's the open source car?" | 23:40 |
| kanzure | note that on exp.html I have a link to one | 23:59 |
| kanzure | hehe | 23:59 |
| kanzure | http://oscar.org/ IIRC | 23:59 |
| kanzure | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Titor <-- the guy from usenet who claimed to be from the future | 23:59 |
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