| --- Day changed Sun May 11 2008 | ||
| fenn | tonight may end early for me | 00:01 |
|---|---|---|
| Vedestin | omnious | 00:03 |
| Vedestin | ominous even | 00:03 |
| * fenn stares at the sky fearfully | 00:03 | |
| kanzure | http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=Revolution+OS&sitesearch= Revolution OS | 00:30 |
| kanzure | Who was Stallman working under at MIT? | 00:30 |
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| kanzure | Hi splicer. | 02:07 |
| kanzure | WTF | 02:13 |
| kanzure | "Popular Mechanics reports if the looming Discovery mission or any other between now and the spacecraft's retirement loses control, National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA) is prepared to ditch it in the Atlantic ocean — or blow it up. The article also shows complete no-fly-zone maps and a photograph of the switch." | 02:13 |
| kanzure | NASA of the '60s would NEVER have built in a self-destruct switch | 02:13 |
| kanzure | Self-destruct wasn't an option. | 02:13 |
| Biopunk | hi kanzure | 02:28 |
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| [Users #hplusroadmap] | 12:17 | |
| [ drazak] [ fenn] [ krebs] [ Vedestin] | 12:17 | |
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| kanzure | fenn: we need a specific example of a metadata file | 13:00 |
| kanzure | let's do something with a name of the project, the location of the skdb file on the internet (URI), and then an object that stores a list of (valid) files within the dot skdb file | 13:00 |
| * kanzure is running off to go see Iron Man. | 13:01 | |
| kanzure | I wonder where I put the examples. | 13:28 |
| kanzure | http://heybryan.org/mediawiki/index.php/2008-04-26 | 13:29 |
| kanzure | Now that I think about it, how do you make a derivative metadata file? A new subtype, I mean. Right now the !! is supposed to be a reference to another metadata file, right? That'll have to change .. it needs to be a reference to a python file somewhere, which defines the class. Otherwise things go, poorly. | 13:30 |
| fenn | !! is a verbose tag which references a python class (i think?) | 13:57 |
| fenn | Local tags start with “!”, are not URIs and are not expected to be globally unique. | 14:19 |
| fenn | i think of "%TAG fennetic.net/foo:v1.0:; bar: !baz" analogously to "import foo; bar = foo.baz" (i'm certain my yaml syntax is wrong) | 14:22 |
| fenn | i think !! is only for built-in types | 14:25 |
| fenn | oh, right !!python/object is a built-in type | 14:49 |
| fenn | metric clock: watch -n 1 'date +%s; echo "G M k s"' | 15:36 |
| fenn | still not sure how to deal with conflicting values as a result of relativistic time dilation | 15:37 |
| fenn | i guess you just have to keep track of two numbers instead of one | 15:37 |
| fenn | the reason we still use hours/minutes/seconds is the church didnt like the idea of a ten day week | 15:45 |
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| kanzure | Hi ybit, fenn | 17:28 |
| kanzure | Chat with Max More in 30 minutes at http://www.ustream.tv/channel/immortality-update it seems | 17:28 |
| ybit | oi kanzure, the house wasn't blown away last night :) | 17:30 |
| ybit | Vedestin's comment made me laught though | 17:30 |
| kanzure | Heh. | 17:30 |
| ybit | what's typically discussed there? | 17:40 |
| ybit | i'll ask there | 17:40 |
| kanzure | Ah, sorry, didn't see your question here. | 17:45 |
| kanzure | Anyway, answered. | 17:45 |
| kanzure | So. I need to come up with some objects, fenn, for the OpenVirglers to get fully interested. I am thinking that I'll just start by writing up some python classes. It should be pretty simple. I don't know how to write python classes, though, nor how to get inventive with them. Do we want just plain ol' variables? A few integers, a few strings, that sort of thing? | 17:46 |
| kanzure | Bah, they are blocking my comments in the chat room. | 17:53 |
| fenn | no video.. lame | 18:14 |
| kanzure | eh | 18:16 |
| kanzure | I could just drive up to his house | 18:16 |
| kanzure | I doubt he's doing anything new, and the interface *sucks*. | 18:16 |
| kanzure | So. | 18:16 |
| fenn | i have no idea who max more is | 18:16 |
| kanzure | These guys from ImmInst are apparently complaining about how nobody wants to associate with them because of their name | 18:16 |
| kanzure | http://maxmore.com/ | 18:16 |
| kanzure | uh, hold on | 18:16 |
| kanzure | http://www.maxmore.com/extprn3.htm | 18:17 |
| kanzure | the whole | 18:17 |
| kanzure | 'perpetual progress ,self-transformation, practical optimism, tech, open society, self-direction, rational thinking' thing | 18:17 |
| fenn | right i was whining about that last night | 18:17 |
| kanzure | yep | 18:17 |
| fenn | wow and now we have stories about immortality on every sitcom ~snark~ | 18:19 |
| fenn | i've skimmed over that huge block of text about ten times now without knowing what it said | 18:21 |
| fenn | re: example artifact metadata, i'm sick today and got distracted.. sorry | 18:23 |
| kanzure | what block of text | 18:27 |
| kanzure | on 2008-04-26 ? | 18:27 |
| fenn | extprn3.htm | 18:27 |
| fenn | "perpetual learning and exploration" seems rather difficult to achieve in practice | 18:32 |
| fenn | i guess it goes back to the old saw about whether a computer program that acts just like you is really you or not | 18:34 |
| fenn | kanzure: what's your stance on the toposophic conjecture? | 18:35 |
| kanzure | possibly bullshit, *but* my behavior is unchanged whether it is true or false, since I'll die trying [while also making the 'next generation' brain architecture etc.] | 18:36 |
| fenn | if you had a choice to work on your own brain architecture or the next generation, which would it be? | 18:37 |
| kanzure | it's both at the same time | 18:38 |
| fenn | that's cheating | 18:39 |
| kanzure | you proposed a loaded situation | 18:40 |
| kanzure | remember what I was talking about, | 18:40 |
| kanzure | using self-replication to do giant fields of simulations of brains or the actual physical brains | 18:40 |
| kanzure | or not really of brains, sorry | 18:40 |
| kanzure | of minicolumns and other structures etc. | 18:40 |
| kanzure | so that we know what modifications to make on our own brains | 18:40 |
| kanzure | while also allowing that digital infrastructure to come together as well | 18:40 |
| kanzure | so it's not cheating at all ... it's just a byproduct of the implementation | 18:40 |
| kanzure | fenn: I think I'm going to become Richard Stallman. | 18:41 |
| fenn | its a byproduct of your inability to make a decision :P | 18:41 |
| kanzure | perhaps | 18:41 |
| kanzure | I know that I'm *probably* screwed in the end | 18:41 |
| fenn | i think richard stallman is a poor role model | 18:41 |
| kanzure | he bootstrapped the free software movement | 18:42 |
| fenn | i admire his ideals and determination to stick to what he believes to be right | 18:42 |
| kanzure | in a sense. | 18:42 |
| fenn | but he totally flopped the political side of things | 18:42 |
| fenn | now we have "the linux OS" and "open source movement" | 18:43 |
| fenn | people see stallman as a whiny selfish bitch | 18:43 |
| fenn | it's sad but true | 18:44 |
| fenn | its edison electric all over again | 18:44 |
| kanzure | yes | 18:52 |
| kanzure | I think that his mission is incomplete sort of | 18:52 |
| kanzure | why the hell did he stop at software | 18:52 |
| kanzure | why not manufacturing | 18:52 |
| kanzure | Anyway, | 18:54 |
| kanzure | the openvirglers have made a suggestion for skdb | 18:55 |
| kanzure | they are suggesting a first project | 18:55 |
| kanzure | either origami instructions or a bicycle | 18:55 |
| kanzure | I'm thinking about pulling a Gingery here | 18:55 |
| kanzure | and doing some packages on basic industrial bootstrapping with metals | 18:55 |
| kanzure | What do you think? | 18:55 |
| fenn | origami is simple, i like it | 18:58 |
| fenn | bicycle is horrendously complex | 18:58 |
| kanzure | btw, when the time come | 18:59 |
| kanzure | *comes | 18:59 |
| kanzure | I think I can get instructables.com onboard | 18:59 |
| kanzure | MIT contacts are awesome :) | 18:59 |
| fenn | because of dalrymple? | 18:59 |
| kanzure | yes | 18:59 |
| kanzure | and Gershenfeld | 18:59 |
| fenn | hm. | 18:59 |
| kanzure | instructables.com is Saul Griffith | 18:59 |
| fenn | i know | 18:59 |
| fenn | i spent several hours yesterday reading about saul griffith | 19:00 |
| kanzure | yeah? | 19:00 |
| kanzure | that's more than what I have read about him | 19:00 |
| kanzure | what'd you find? | 19:00 |
| fenn | just read his masters thesis, looked at phd thesis, etc (i had already looked at a lot of his stuff earlier) | 19:00 |
| fenn | basically my reaction was "that doesnt look so hard" | 19:01 |
| fenn | "maybe i actually stand a chance of getting in" | 19:01 |
| kanzure | to MIT? | 19:01 |
| kanzure | nope, that's a lie | 19:01 |
| kanzure | they rejected me | 19:01 |
| kanzure | so I'm still wondering who the hell at MIT is matching me . .. I know, I know, big ego, but seriously | 19:01 |
| kanzure | looking at the facts of the situation | 19:01 |
| fenn | some indian kid | 19:01 |
| kanzure | who ? what Indian kid took the plunge to publish biohacking information, or took the plunge to put together brain implant projects, or etc. etc. | 19:02 |
| kanzure | I'm just saying. | 19:02 |
| fenn | well, the type of people who review admissions applications arent exactly known for valuing "eccentric" ideas | 19:03 |
| fenn | maybe i'm just lying to myself but i have to | 19:03 |
| fenn | and honestly i've looked at gershenfeld + friends code and it's nothing special | 19:04 |
| fenn | but dammit, its the only game in town | 19:04 |
| kanzure | yeah, exactly | 19:05 |
| kanzure | what the hell would they say if I one up Gershenfeld | 19:05 |
| kanzure | because they're supposed to be doing self-replication stuff | 19:05 |
| fenn | they'd arrest you | 19:05 |
| kanzure | but if you look at it, and look at their websites etc., | 19:05 |
| kanzure | they're not actually doing anything at all | 19:05 |
| kanzure | granted, Dalrymple has shown me some stuff going on inside | 19:05 |
| kanzure | and they are actually doing, well, thins | 19:05 |
| kanzure | *things | 19:05 |
| kanzure | it's how I first learned of Winfree's DNA assembly stuff for example | 19:06 |
| fenn | well, a lot of it is putting the disparate pieces together and giving them direction | 19:06 |
| kanzure | perhaps so | 19:06 |
| kanzure | huh | 19:06 |
| kanzure | sounds like eccentricism. | 19:06 |
| fenn | yep you're allowed to be eccentric once you get tenure | 19:06 |
| kanzure | ah, I see. | 19:06 |
| fenn | otherwise you're "practicing medicine without a license" | 19:07 |
| fenn | yaml 1.2 is just around the corner | 19:09 |
| fenn | btw stallman didnt invent the internet, there was a lot of "liberal thought" going around in computer circles for so long that it's kind of amazing that corporate narrowmindedness was even able to take root | 19:10 |
| fenn | he was just the most persistent and had a plan | 19:10 |
| kanzure | I didn't say he invented the internet | 19:11 |
| kanzure | oh, I had an insight yesterday | 19:12 |
| kanzure | while flipping through a stack of manufacturing texts | 19:12 |
| kanzure | oh, I already mentioned this | 19:12 |
| kanzure | drats. | 19:12 |
| fenn | you have too many books? | 19:12 |
| fenn | you have ocpd? | 19:12 |
| fenn | i collect tools | 19:13 |
| fenn | better than collecting old newspapers or used kleenex | 19:13 |
| kanzure | hm? | 19:15 |
| kanzure | too many books? | 19:15 |
| kanzure | Not enough :) | 19:15 |
| kanzure | fenn: I am getting the headache again; could you please hack out a few lines of python to write a class that represents a basic metadata file for skdb | 19:15 |
| kanzure | :( | 19:15 |
| * fenn resumes the 13130 sci-fi book torrent | 19:16 | |
| kanzure | ooh | 19:16 |
| kanzure | linkage | 19:16 |
| kanzure | please? | 19:16 |
| fenn | for some reason its split up into 1GB chunks: http://www.mininova.org/tor/1214999 | 19:16 |
| kanzure | eh | 19:17 |
| fenn | update 1 2 3 4 5 are like daily diffs | 19:17 |
| fenn | its the only place on the net i could find 'a deepness in the sky' | 19:18 |
| kanzure | you ignored my request | 19:19 |
| kanzure | I need to go run and hide from this headpain. | 19:19 |
| fenn | i've got wisdom tooth + sinus infection, buddy | 19:19 |
| fenn | fluorescent green sticky stuff coming out | 19:19 |
| fenn | ok, i promise to work on it if you dont distract me | 19:20 |
| ybit | kanzure: who's the guy that interviewed max more? | 19:30 |
| ybit | Mind is his username... | 19:31 |
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| -!- Topic for #hplusroadmap: http://heybryan.org/ http://heybryan.org/mediawiki/ http://heybryan.org/exp.html | krebs is now servicing the channel. try !help | 19:56 | |
| -!- Topic set by kanzure [] [Tue Apr 29 18:54:31 2008] | 19:56 | |
| [Users #hplusroadmap] | 19:56 | |
| [ drazak] [ fenn_ ] [ krebs ] [ ybit] | 19:56 | |
| [ fenn ] [ kanzure] [ Vedestin] | 19:56 | |
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| -!- Channel #hplusroadmap created Sat Mar 22 15:44:12 2008 | 19:56 | |
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| kanzure | ybit: Mind is just some guy from http://imminst.org/ - that's all I know. | 20:32 |
| kanzure | Tylenol + amphetamine seems to be doing some good for me. Although maybe it was just seeing Marry Poppins on television that shocked me out of it. What the hell were they thinking? Dancing pinguins and flying merry-go-rounds? | 20:32 |
| kanzure | what the fuck | 20:35 |
| kanzure | http://google.com/search?q=metarepository | 20:35 |
| kanzure | https://www.metarepository.com/ | 20:35 |
| kanzure | ''An on-line modeling tool is missing on the web | 20:35 |
| kanzure | Models, data, metadata, should all be accessible via the web. The same way as there is a web-based mail that can be accessed anytime from anywhere (i.e. GMail), there should be a web-based metarepository to hold models. No special IDE's to be installed. Ready to generate useful outputs from the data (reports, documents, or even program code). | 20:35 |
| kanzure | Seems to be about modeling. | 20:36 |
| kanzure | http://www.grister.org/articles/2000/00.10.14_Transtech_Map.html transtech map | 20:38 |
| kanzure | Hm. He lives near me. | 20:39 |
| fenn | nice map | 20:39 |
| kanzure | sent an email yelling at him for not being responsible and meeting up with me | 20:40 |
| fenn | well, too bad about the flat 2d gritty squint-at picture | 20:40 |
| fenn | but i've never seen anything like it | 20:40 |
| kanzure | http://www.grister.org/articles/1999/99.07.31_Transtech.html | 20:41 |
| fenn | kaczynski has some thoughts on what happens when people have too much leisure time :) | 20:43 |
| kanzure | http://heybryan.org/pipermail/hplusroadmap/2008-May/000487.html | 21:00 |
| kanzure | you know you're going wrong when your own grandmother sends you an email about instructables.com 20 minutes after you're talking about it in the IRC channel | 21:00 |
| kanzure | Hahaha | 21:01 |
| kanzure | So after getting my mind back, they want to force me to walk around mowing the lawn | 21:01 |
| kanzure | Awesome. | 21:01 |
| Vedestin | what happened to your mind? | 21:02 |
| kanzure | Vedestin: Got a weird headache and couldn't do any programming. | 21:03 |
| Vedestin | maybe it's a tumour | 21:03 |
| kanzure | So I did some tylenol tablets which seem to have helped. | 21:03 |
| kanzure | Haha, a tumor? Maybe. I guess it would be cool to have an excuse to get a brainscan. | 21:03 |
| fenn | do they let you keep the data? | 21:03 |
| kanzure | from my experiences with doctors that use digital imaging, "Hell no" | 21:04 |
| kanzure | Nobody ever gives me the data, even when I ask. | 21:04 |
| kanzure | I even hand them the flash drive and point to their USB port. | 21:04 |
| kanzure | or tell them where to email it to | 21:04 |
| kanzure | How'd epitron get his brainscans in a tar anyway ? | 21:04 |
| kanzure | hm, I need some origami sites | 21:05 |
| kanzure | Woah, I have no bookmarks on origami. | 21:06 |
| Vedestin | is that suprising? | 21:06 |
| fenn | yes | 21:06 |
| Vedestin | ok | 21:07 |
| kanzure | Only one search result on ""origami markup"" (looking for origami ML) | 21:07 |
| kanzure | Vedestin: I have tens of thousands of bookmarks. You give me a tech name, and I probably have a few links on it. Probably. | 21:07 |
| kanzure | apparently I've missed out on origamitech :) | 21:07 |
| kanzure | YOUTSU video wall, UCHI environment and why it can not play;; | 21:08 |
| kanzure | Loading and solidified. | 21:08 |
| kanzure | Origami creations also have close behind. Or dragon or unicorn, dinosaurs and vocals. | 21:08 |
| kanzure | Hyper-related components so that, origami and OML (Origami Markup Language) it's there. | 21:08 |
| kanzure | Anything, origami logical language to describe the structure. | 21:08 |
| kanzure | A little GUGU I have not made shortly, is does not seem to spread. | 21:08 |
| kanzure | CHORO previously seen only there, but the spell was SHIROTO w | 21:08 |
| kanzure | Hm. | 21:08 |
| fenn | i seem to have lost my origami links | 21:09 |
| kanzure | So there might be an Origami Markup Language | 21:09 |
| fenn | i have NFC that those japanese words are talking about | 21:09 |
| kanzure | "OML" | 21:09 |
| kanzure | http://www.ganymeta.org/~darren/origami2.php | 21:10 |
| kanzure | Origami fold language | 21:10 |
| kanzure | http://doodle.sourceforge.net/ | 21:11 |
| kanzure | http://creased.com/ for diagrams (argh, not good enough) | 21:12 |
| kanzure | heh http://www.peacetree.info/history.php origami peace tree project, aww | 21:12 |
| kanzure | Global Language: Origami Shape Language (OSL) | 21:13 |
| kanzure | from none other than CSAIL | 21:13 |
| fenn | those bastards | 21:14 |
| kanzure | http://groups.csail.mit.edu/mac/projects/amorphous/Progmat/thesis/origami-global.html | 21:14 |
| fenn | looks like lisp to me | 21:15 |
| fenn | <epitron> the toronto hospital system lets you get copies of your imaging scans for free | 21:17 |
| fenn | <epitron> i just went to the central imaging center and asked for a cd | 21:17 |
| fenn | i might be more interested in origami if it werent so hard :) | 21:18 |
| kanzure | right | 21:18 |
| kanzure | it does take a certain skill, doesn't it? | 21:19 |
| fenn | <epitron> did you ask "why"? :) | 21:21 |
| kanzure | fenn: programming with an origami fold language is interesting | 21:21 |
| kanzure | it shows how art, is in fact, a design process of programming | 21:21 |
| fenn | er.. "why wont you give me my own images" | 21:21 |
| kanzure | hm | 21:21 |
| fenn | its useful as a demo because everyone already has a 2d printer | 21:23 |
| kanzure | aha | 21:24 |
| kanzure | that too | 21:24 |
| kanzure | I'm thinking that it'd be good if we could translate the OFL into human readable statements | 21:24 |
| kanzure | or into visual diagrams | 21:24 |
| kanzure | and then say "ok, now imagine that you are a mechanical arm, and all of that info was digital" | 21:24 |
| kanzure | "that's what the hell we're talking about" | 21:24 |
| kanzure | of course, GitS has gone over the point that it's hard to make a mechanical arm fold swans ;-) | 21:24 |
| fenn | yes and no | 21:25 |
| kanzure | cranes, rather | 21:25 |
| fenn | low precision manipulation is just an area that hasnt received much interest (because humans are already cheap and good at it) | 21:25 |
| kanzure | http://youtube.com/watch?v=yuGDnFgQUXA | 21:25 |
| fenn | true story, btw | 21:28 |
| fenn | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sadako_Sasaki | 21:29 |
| kanzure | what sort of crappy analogy is "plane crash" to "1/1000th the energy of the sun going off less than 2 miles from you, oh and you don't die immediately" | 21:33 |
| fenn | it probably has something to do with the story | 21:34 |
| fenn | there are some steps to folding a paper crane that are hard to explain with just a sequence of images and words | 21:43 |
| fenn | gosh maybe origami isnt the simple thing i thought it was :P | 21:44 |
| kanzure | hm, possibly | 21:53 |
| fenn | "what happens when everyone is smart, ambitious, informed and motivated?" <- and he makes it sound like a bad thing.. | 22:25 |
| kanzure | who? | 22:27 |
| fenn | gratton | 22:28 |
| fenn | grister.org | 22:28 |
| kanzure | yes, I noticed that he has a negative take on things | 22:29 |
| kanzure | http://www.seds.org/mailman/listinfo/crowdsat | 22:29 |
| kanzure | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CubeSat | 22:29 |
| kanzure | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CubeSat | 22:29 |
| kanzure | http://wiki.seds.org/index.php/Indian_Student_Satellite | 22:29 |
| kanzure | http://actionforspace.blogspot.com/ | 22:29 |
| kanzure | http://www.politico.com/ | 22:29 |
| kanzure | http://forums.seds.org/index.php | 22:29 |
| kanzure | http://wiki.seds.org/index.php/SEDSIC2007_Design_Competition | 22:29 |
| kanzure | Students for the Development of Space | 22:30 |
| * fenn paddles furiously | 22:30 | |
| kanzure | http://www.crowdsat.org | 22:30 |
| fenn | why a cube? | 22:32 |
| fenn | seems hard to stabilize | 22:33 |
| kanzure | ybit: Hey. I didn't realize you were sneaking up on me like that via facebook. | 22:39 |
| ybit | lol | 22:41 |
| * ybit is away for about an hour | 22:41 | |
| kanzure | fenn: http://www.langorigami.com/art/creasepatterns/creasepatterns.php4 Crease Pattern lang? Seems to be a diagram method. | 22:43 |
| kanzure | Hadoop/MapReduce for manufacturing? | 23:00 |
| kanzure | <--- is a moron | 23:00 |
| kanzure | one of those "Of course, of course!" moments | 23:01 |
| kanzure | hm | 23:18 |
| kanzure | this is disappointing | 23:18 |
| kanzure | wait, no it's not | 23:18 |
| kanzure | Heh, I am such a player. I've combined a local SEDS chapter with a local NSS chapter. | 23:25 |
| -!- kanzure [n=bryan@cpe-70-113-54-112.austin.res.rr.com] has quit ["Leaving."] | 23:51 | |
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