| --- Day changed Tue May 13 2008 | ||
| kanzure | http://www.bertsimons.nl/zenphoto/paperworks/ | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| kanzure | he has heads mounted on his wall :) | 00:00 |
| kanzure | hehe | 00:00 |
| fenn | think of the anime possibilities :\ | 00:08 |
| kanzure | http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/9.12/aq.cgi wired sucks | 00:09 |
| kanzure | http://origami.kvi.nl/programs/oridraw/ oridraw software ? doesn't look like a compiler | 00:10 |
| kanzure | ' | 00:10 |
| kanzure | ORIDRAW, ORITOPS and ORITOAIL are programs designed to make Origami diagrams. | 00:10 |
| kanzure | They are not WYSIWYG (What You See Is What You Get) programs: both programs | 00:10 |
| kanzure | read commands from a file and converts them to diagrams.' | 00:10 |
| ybit | okay, i lied. i had to edit a few more things :) | 00:11 |
| ybit | but NOW i'm through | 00:11 |
| kanzure | ybit: haha | 00:12 |
| fenn | there was an interactive java app origami cad program.. site was in japanese | 00:13 |
| fenn | oripa | 00:14 |
| kanzure | I'd like to track down bert's software. | 00:14 |
| fenn | http://mitani.cs.tsukuba.ac.jp/pukiwiki-oripa/index.php?ORIPA%3B%20Origami%20Pattern%20Editor | 00:14 |
| fenn | i actually got it to work | 00:14 |
| ybit | ugh, i give up | 00:17 |
| kanzure | the input is crease pattern documents? | 00:17 |
| ybit | i keep finding new things to edit :P | 00:17 |
| kanzure | ybit: with what? | 00:17 |
| kanzure | there's quite a lot of content, yes | 00:17 |
| fenn | watch the demo movie | 00:17 |
| ybit | on second thought, not so sure if i like the <center> element | 00:18 |
| ybit | sorry for not having much to say tonight, i didn't get much sleep this previous morning | 00:21 |
| * ybit goes to bed | 00:24 | |
| ybit | gn | 00:24 |
| kanzure | 'night | 00:25 |
| kanzure | Keith Henson sent me a nasty email :-/ | 00:27 |
| kanzure | http://lists.extropy.org/pipermail/extropy-chat/2008-May/043411.html | 00:29 |
| kanzure | guess he is just asking for numbers | 00:31 |
| fenn | i'd have to agree with everything he says in that email | 00:33 |
| kanzure | yes, but the whole "Look, I founded the L5" bullshit | 00:33 |
| kanzure | it's certainly quite a feat | 00:33 |
| kanzure | but. | 00:33 |
| fenn | it's not argument from authority if you're the authority :) | 00:34 |
| kanzure | ah | 00:34 |
| fenn | interesting biography | 00:36 |
| kanzure | he's a good friend of Tony, coincidentially | 00:36 |
| kanzure | ah, didn't know his Xanadu connections | 00:36 |
| kanzure | hm, and an ESR connection | 00:37 |
| fenn | The jury verdict of the trial resulted in Henson being convicted of one of the three charges: "interfering with a religion." This misdemeanor charge carried a prison term of six months. | 00:37 |
| fenn | holy WTF batman | 00:37 |
| kanzure | yes, he recently got released | 00:38 |
| kanzure | and so his emails started appearing back on the mailing lists | 00:38 |
| kanzure | with "advisory from my lawyers to never, ever ever mention you know what" | 00:38 |
| kanzure | fenn: what's the best way for me to figure out what 'real' CAD is like | 00:55 |
| fenn | download alibre free edition | 00:55 |
| fenn | dont you just love the name | 00:55 |
| fenn | http://www.alibre.com/xpress/ | 00:56 |
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| Vedestin_ | hey, i've had a thought, someone can someone tell me how ridiculous it is | 02:33 |
| Vedestin_ | anyway, so i was wondering if thought patterns, memories, knowledge etc are reinforced in the brain through strengthening of bonds between neurons (correct this if it's wrong) wouldn't there possibly be some substance which could aid this process | 02:38 |
| Vedestin_ | my thinking is like how anabolic steroids aid muscle development, this nootropic steroid could aid brain development | 02:38 |
| Vedestin_ | and facilitate learning | 02:38 |
| Vedestin_ | let me know when you guys get back | 02:39 |
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| kanzure | fenn: | 07:40 |
| kanzure | http://constructors.wikidot.com/ | 07:40 |
| kanzure | http://groups.google.co.uk/group/vncprize | 07:40 |
| kanzure | this is Douglas Reay, the guy who's sponsoring the von Neumann Constructor Prize | 07:40 |
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| Vedestin | bryan is a high school student? | 10:12 |
| fenn | yup | 10:15 |
| Vedestin | ahh ok | 10:20 |
| Vedestin | final year? | 10:20 |
| Vedestin | that explains the passionate idealism | 10:21 |
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| -!- Topic set by kanzure [] [Tue Apr 29 18:54:31 2008] | 11:34 | |
| [Users #hplusroadmap] | 11:34 | |
| [ drazak] [ fenn_] [ Phreedom] [ ybit] | 11:34 | |
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| -!- Channel #hplusroadmap created Sat Mar 22 15:44:12 2008 | 11:34 | |
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| kanzure | fenn: http://sourceforge.net/projects/piquant/ "A Python package extending NumPy and SciPy to allow specification of numbers and arrays with physical units." | 18:14 |
| kanzure | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Process_art | 19:13 |
| kanzure | fenn: Why does talking with people who don't understand neuroscience (like the ones who want to describe circuits via anthrophomorphization ('awards')) - make me hurt? I feel an actual pain when talking with them. Like I'm ramming my head against a brick wall. Why? | 20:36 |
| fenn | because typically you enjoy communicating with people and you're being blocked? | 20:55 |
| fenn | how to distinguish process art from performance art? | 20:56 |
| fenn | why do people try so hard to be cool? | 20:56 |
| kanzure | fenn: performance art seems to be only realtime, usually involving human actors | 20:56 |
| fenn | today i was playing with cad.py | 20:58 |
| fenn | and another underwhelming cba masters thesis | 20:58 |
| fenn | solar powered tesla turbines, great idea, but didnt exactly inspire me on the fabrication side of things | 20:59 |
| kanzure | I wonder if they are retarded or very good at hiding things | 21:00 |
| kanzure | but why would they hide stuff | 21:00 |
| fenn | i notice they use a different license on software than "the MIT license" | 21:00 |
| fenn | i think they spend more effort connecting with other scientists and the media than direct communication via website | 21:01 |
| fenn | i've found a bunch of neat stuff though when google stumbles upon their internal wiki/blog | 21:02 |
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| fenn | academics are funny, its like they aren't trying to be mean or selfish, they're just clueless | 21:03 |
| fenn | does piquant have any real documentation? | 21:03 |
| kanzure | Not that I can see. | 21:04 |
| kanzure | fenn: Isn't it their job to not be clueless? | 21:04 |
| Vedestin | no | 21:05 |
| Vedestin | their job is to publish papers | 21:05 |
| fenn | unfortunately, vedestin is right | 21:05 |
| fenn | "bibliometry" is like money in academia | 21:05 |
| fenn | the system is totally fucked, but it's self perpetuating and nobody can do anything about it | 21:05 |
| Vedestin | 'publish or perish' is a term often bandied around | 21:06 |
| fenn | it's a truism, but it doesnt reflect the reality of the flawed system we have | 21:06 |
| fenn | things are even worse in japan and china | 21:07 |
| fenn | its some kind of inflationary effect | 21:07 |
| fenn | believe it or not, scientific papers used to be written in plain english | 21:07 |
| fenn | now, you have to write in science-ese so you can pass off your crap research as something worth publishing | 21:07 |
| Phreedom | fenn: still there's a ton of useful stuff published | 21:08 |
| Phreedom | sometimes if the paper is not useful to you, it's really hard to understand why it is useful | 21:08 |
| kanzure | fenn: See the last quote here: http://heybryan.org/2008-05-13_hyperfocusing.html#sus . Quite interesting. | 21:08 |
| Phreedom | of course load of crap are still here | 21:08 |
| Phreedom | *loads | 21:09 |
| kanzure | Phreedom: I agree. You can get to a point where you truly know if it's bullshit or not. | 21:09 |
| kanzure | But you might also be stealing opportunities from yourself, so you have to be careful when glancing over papers. | 21:09 |
| fenn | i just think that if people concentrated more on doing something worth doing, less on publishing papers, they might actually make a difference | 21:10 |
| kanzure | fenn: Those cholinogeric extensions were mentioned in http://heybryan.org/intense_world_syndrome.html too, so those guys are on to something interesting. | 21:10 |
| kanzure | cholinergic (neuron) projections, I mean. | 21:10 |
| fenn | i just see a lot of jargon that i dont know | 21:11 |
| fenn | sorry i'm not interested in neuroscience | 21:11 |
| Phreedom | you don't have to. have your revenge by making up more words they don't know ;) | 21:11 |
| fenn | Phreedom: i'll just squash them under the boots of my giant robot armor | 21:12 |
| fenn | rawr | 21:12 |
| fenn | kanzure: what are you trying to say about hyperfocusing.html#sus | 21:13 |
| kanzure | fenn: The jargon basically says that (1) the cortices may be mapping goals back into the forebrain regions so that you have 'attentional demands' on your own information, and (2) there have been physical experiments that can modulate attention via acetycholine, NMDA, other molecules like that, extending into the regions that Markram has been studying and simulating. | 21:14 |
| kanzure | It's just my page with some notes on attention. I want to hack my attentional circuits somehow, so I figured I'd do a recursion through the literature tonight (to some extent). | 21:14 |
| kanzure | re: cad.py, did you try unfold.py and http://www.czestmyr.wz.cz/progs/B-Paperizer_04.py ? | 21:15 |
| fenn | no, not yet | 21:16 |
| fenn | i can never remember blender interface keys/gestures | 21:17 |
| kanzure | Who are the guys that do remember it anyway? How much time are they spending on that learning curve ? | 21:19 |
| kanzure | I remember back in 03 when I was playing with 3DS Max and Maya for various reasons ... I could do some functions, but even with my excessive amount of free time (i.e., all day and all night), I never got that far. | 21:19 |
| Vedestin | don't you sleep? | 21:23 |
| kanzure | yeah | 21:25 |
| Vedestin | oh ok | 21:25 |
| Vedestin | how come your school schedule is so light? | 21:25 |
| kanzure | http://www.neuroinf.org/pipermail/comp-neuro/2008-May/000816.html position at Boulder in comp-neurosci ... O'Reilly is a familiar name (turns out it was Superkuh's interest) | 21:25 |
| kanzure | Vedestin: My school schedule is intense - second-year calculus, second-year physics, literature (lots of reading), psych (lots of reading), and then macroeconomics, art, fitness. | 21:26 |
| Vedestin | second year as in second year of a degree | 21:27 |
| Vedestin | or is that an american thing? | 21:27 |
| kanzure | Last year it was fucking intense: second-year bio, second-year physics (yes), anatomy/physiology, American literature, U.S. History, U.S. Government, first-year calculus, speech, and an SAT/ACT review class with the head of the literature department + head of the sci department. :) | 21:28 |
| kanzure | No, it's high school. | 21:28 |
| kanzure | year 12 before university/college | 21:28 |
| fenn | kanzure: do you happen to know where unfold.py is available? | 21:28 |
| kanzure | fenn: IIRC, the blog post said it comes with Blender 2.4.4+ | 21:28 |
| kanzure | in the extensions or plugins dir, however blender doesi t. | 21:29 |
| kanzure | *it | 21:29 |
| kanzure | http://heybryan.org/mediawiki/index.php/3D_models | 21:29 |
| kanzure | specifically: http://blenderartists.org/forum/showthread.php?t=101194 | 21:29 |
| fenn | locate and google dont find it | 21:29 |
| kanzure | 'lender 2.44 comes with a script called Unfold. It can easily turn mesh into a flat net, without deforming any faces. What is it good for?' | 21:29 |
| Vedestin | so whats involved in second year calculus | 21:29 |
| kanzure | 'It will help to open one Script window before you start. Unfold is in Scripts > Mesh > Unfold. Then, for all objects one by one, select them, click Unfold and click UV to save the layout (why isnt't this automatical?).' | 21:30 |
| fenn | blah | 21:30 |
| fenn | /usr/share/blender/scripts/blender/mesh_unfolder.py | 21:30 |
| kanzure | Vedestin: http://heybryan.org/school/Calculus/index2.html trigonometric substitution, sequences and series, polynomial approximations, and *supposedly* introductions to partial differentiable equations, separable differential equations, etc. | 21:31 |
| Vedestin | oh i see, that's pretty good for a high school course | 21:32 |
| kanzure | You'd think ... but the teacher is ideologically opposed to being able to talk about the methodology and process. :-/ | 21:33 |
| kanzure | Re: O'Reilly. http://psych-www.colorado.edu/~oreilly/ | 21:33 |
| fenn | hmm. the monkey is too complex so instead of making a flat unfold it unfolds in 3d | 21:33 |
| kanzure | wtf | 21:34 |
| kanzure | fenn: try installing http://www.czestmyr.wz.cz/progs/B-Paperizer_04.py in the plugin dir instead | 21:34 |
| Vedestin | so...what do they do? | 21:34 |
| Vedestin | they show you graphs and talk about the theory of calculus | 21:34 |
| Vedestin | i've got this course this semester, http://webapps.newcastle.edu.au/handbook/index.cfm?event=handbookResults&strm=4885%2C4840%2C4880%2C4815%2C4825%2C4855%2C4800&subject_area=MATH&catalog_id=1110&template=0&timetable=&term_year=2008&course_level= | 21:37 |
| kanzure | Not so much. It's mostly just example problems of short snippits of "theorems" that aren't given rigorous proofs or discussions. | 21:37 |
| Vedestin | then http://webapps.newcastle.edu.au/handbook/index.cfm?event=handbookResults&strm=4885%2C4840%2C4880%2C4815%2C4825%2C4855%2C4800&subject_area=MATH&catalog_id=1120&template=0&timetable=&term_year=2008&course_level= | 21:37 |
| kanzure | I hold that it should be completely possible to compress an entire course into 30 minutes if you know what you're talking about, even at the potential cost of a lack of understanding in the students. And it's only 30 minutes ... | 21:37 |
| kanzure | instead of taking 45 min for 4 problems | 21:37 |
| Vedestin | an entire course? | 21:37 |
| Vedestin | 45 minutes for four problems is fairly long... | 21:38 |
| Vedestin | you'll enjoy university calculus | 21:39 |
| fenn | paperizer only seems to want to make a single triangle | 21:39 |
| fenn | unfold works how i'd expect with a sphere | 21:39 |
| fenn | it provides a number of different ways to unfold too | 21:39 |
| kanzure | fenn: what was wrong with your monkey, then? | 21:39 |
| fenn | well, its not always possible to unfold into a flat plane without overlapping | 21:39 |
| fenn | pepakura gets around that by chopping the unfolded 2d projection into pieces, and then moving the pieces around | 21:40 |
| fenn | something about convexity i think | 21:40 |
| fenn | but paperizer just looks broken | 21:41 |
| kanzure | so we just need to make unfold do some chopping? | 21:44 |
| fenn | unfold almost gets it right.. one would expect a cone to unfold into a circle and a semicircle, but it splits the circle into two pieces | 21:44 |
| kanzure | or do we not care this much ? | 21:44 |
| fenn | eh i dont really care that much | 21:44 |
| kanzure | seems like a job for some topology ?? | 21:44 |
| kanzure | fenn: is it still a suitable demonstration of the system? | 21:45 |
| kanzure | or do we want to go get Bert/Bret/Brent Simons to show us what software he wrote? | 21:45 |
| fenn | some automatic tab numbering would be a lot more convincing | 21:48 |
| fenn | http://fennetic.net/pub/irc/Cone.png | 21:53 |
| fenn | that wasn't terribly automated, but i guess one could store all the trial/error i just did in a script somehow | 21:54 |
| fenn | there must be some way to automatically identify convex parts of a mesh and chop them off to unfold separately | 21:58 |
| fenn | oh good "Unfolder saves its nets in SVG format with added metadata describing the relationships between the polygons in the net," | 21:59 |
| fenn | looks something like this <nets:fold nets:da="-10.0687585642" nets:parent="fold66" nets:ofPoly="poly392" nets:id="fold67" nets:toPoly="poly393"> | 22:00 |
| kanzure | I can't parse that. | 22:00 |
| kanzure | what does nets:da versus nets:parent mean, for example? | 22:00 |
| kanzure | ofPoly and toPoly might make sense | 22:00 |
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| kanzure | wait | 22:07 |
| kanzure | it's SVG? | 22:07 |
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| fenn | i think da is the angle between faces, its a 32 sided cone | 22:12 |
| kanzure | convexity could be established by doing cross-sections in the rendering system and just breaking off the connections | 22:15 |
| kanzure | and then taking the two separate objects and dealing with them separately | 22:15 |
| fenn | it sure has an annoying way of making dashed lines | 22:15 |
| fenn | individual line segments | 22:15 |
| fenn | oh, no, nevermind | 22:17 |
| fenn | starts numbering poly's at 100 for some reason | 22:19 |
| fenn | i gotta say it's pretty cool to move something from blender into inkscape | 22:20 |
| drazak | blender is pretty nice sometimes | 22:40 |
| Phreedom | sometimes? I'd say usually ;) | 23:14 |
| kanzure | I recently (past 2 mo?) discovered blender's python support | 23:26 |
| kanzure | so that was nice | 23:26 |
| fenn | it works; i made a 25-hedron: http://fennetic.net/pub/camera/DCP_0804.JPG | 23:38 |
| fenn | no tabs, just tape | 23:39 |
| fenn | http://fennetic.net/pub/irc/25-hedron.png | 23:41 |
| kanzure | wtf, that's tape? | 23:42 |
| fenn | its paper, cut out, folded, and taped to itself | 23:42 |
| kanzure | you have neat taping abilities, then | 23:43 |
| fenn | actually it was very easy | 23:43 |
| kanzure | http://fennetic.net/pub/camera/DCP_0801.JPG are these yours? | 23:44 |
| fenn | ugh not anymore | 23:45 |
| fenn | well, they were never really mine, it was just assumed they were because i'm the computer nerd right? | 23:45 |
| kanzure | so they just ended up around ? | 23:45 |
| fenn | my roomate took them to his "warehouse" and presumably they're sitting there doing nothing | 23:46 |
| fenn | they used to be on some shelves in the basement and scattered about | 23:46 |
| fenn | then some friends wanted to use a silk-screen machine in the basement so some serious shuffling of crap occurred | 23:47 |
| fenn | to make space for the machine | 23:47 |
| fenn | (they havent used it once) | 23:47 |
| Vedestin | they were going to print t shirts? | 23:49 |
| Vedestin | i think i should switch in to biomedical science | 23:50 |
| kanzure | What are you in? | 23:51 |
| Vedestin | science with a chemistry major | 23:52 |
| Vedestin | just first year | 23:53 |
| kanzure | quick, how do I find cheap flights on the net | 23:57 |
| Vedestin | i use flightcentre | 23:58 |
| Vedestin | but that's for ones leaving australia | 23:58 |
| Vedestin | look for student deals | 23:59 |
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