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| faceface | percent_: are you in #bioinformatics? | 03:32 |
|---|---|---|
| faceface | /msg kanzure "what does that change?" (re yesterdays convo) | 03:33 |
| percent_ | no sir | 03:33 |
| faceface | dam... where is kanzure | 03:34 |
| percent_ | went to bed. | 03:34 |
| faceface | percent_: "talk about bioinformatics software" <- the place to be | 03:34 |
| faceface | percent_: he said in 'bioinformatics' that he would be in the marcotte lab tomorrow... is that when he gets up? | 03:34 |
| percent_ | Dunno, I haven't stalked him yet | 03:35 |
| faceface | hrm... | 03:35 |
| faceface | if he comes in can you ask him to check his memos? | 03:37 |
| faceface | I did ... /ms send kanzure "kanzure -> I'm going to be showing up in the Marcotte lab tomorrow" ... Say hello to Wan Kim Que for me! | 03:37 |
| percent_ | you could just call him | 03:43 |
| faceface | percent_: what time does he get up? | 03:55 |
| percent_ | I've no idea. | 03:55 |
| percent_ | You appear to know him IRL. | 03:55 |
| faceface | no | 03:55 |
| faceface | only ICL | 03:55 |
| percent_ | icl? | 03:56 |
| Vedestin | in computer life? | 03:56 |
| faceface | yeah | 03:57 |
| faceface | where to ask questions about ooffice writer? | 03:57 |
| percent_ | i'm going to bed now | 03:58 |
| percent_ | because i am tired | 03:58 |
| percent_ | genetically. | 03:58 |
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| faceface | l8r | 03:59 |
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| nsh | http://www.nature.com/nbt/journal/v26/n6/abs/nbt1405.html | 05:15 |
| nsh | title: Rapid genome sequencing with short universal tiling probes | 05:15 |
| faceface | nsh: cool | 06:16 |
| faceface | dang... I is looking for 'whole genome assembly from "millions of [short] shotgun fragments"' | 06:17 |
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| kanzure | Grumble grumble. | 10:03 |
| kanzure | I'm getting requests to improve the exp.html page, but nobody has any specific idea on /how/ exactly to go about doing that. | 10:04 |
| kanzure | There are many introductions into the general ideaspaces and many general ideas that have to be applied; the most general idea I can think of is to present some puzzle pieces (git, wikis, repositories, standards, etc.) as a method to achieve some of the goals of the 'ideals' of do-it-yourself manufacturing, of open hardware, charity, post-scarcity, and singularity topics. | 10:05 |
| kanzure | However, those projects aren't well defined really ('manufacturing by whoever wants to' is a vague concept); so am I going to have to suggest a way to deploy the infastructure necessary for distributed, parallel, peer-to-peer manufacturing+computation ? i.e., the concepts of resource diffusion paths/nets or something | 10:06 |
| kanzure | http://blog.wired.com/defense/2008/06/jason-warns-of.html?cid=118557472#comment-118557472 | 10:10 |
| kanzure | Perhaps I can take the approach of an engineer/scientist/researcher or i.e., a thinking person, and ask whether or not it makes sense to offload the majority of life-sustaining processes to other entities and so on, and thereby restricting your overall amount of 'freedom'. Should I play the freedom card? | 10:11 |
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| -!- Topic for #hplusroadmap: Intro: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXKbzbeipmI http://diybio.org/ http://openwetware.org/ | diy bio toolkit: http://biohack.sf.net/ | Automated societal knowledge (put it to work): http://heybryan.org/exp.html | Channel wiki: http://heybryan.org/mediawiki/ | F/OSS perspectives on Kurzweil: http://heybryan.org/fernhout/ | 13:49 | |
| -!- Topic set by kanzure [] [Sun Jun 8 13:00:15 2008] | 13:49 | |
| [Users #hplusroadmap] | 13:49 | |
| [ fenn ] [ nsh ] [ procto] [ ybit] | 13:49 | |
| [ kanzure] [ Phreedom] [ wrldpc] | 13:49 | |
| -!- Irssi: #hplusroadmap: Total of 7 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 7 normal] | 13:49 | |
| -!- Channel #hplusroadmap created Sat Mar 22 15:44:12 2008 | 13:50 | |
| -!- Irssi: Join to #hplusroadmap was synced in 34 secs | 13:50 | |
| fenn | yes, you need to explain the concept of freedom through independence, since most people just dont get it | 13:50 |
| fenn | here's a step-by-step solution to improving your writing | 13:50 |
| fenn | 1) move all links to footnotes, and expect nobody to read any of the footnotes. explain in the prose what the referenced material is about in one or two sentences. | 13:51 |
| fenn | 2) explain "why" you're trying to do before "what" | 13:52 |
| fenn | 3) build a vision by telling a story about how a person would live there | 13:55 |
| fenn | 4) paragraphs should be under 5 sentences, less if the sentences are long. you should use section headings to group larger chunks of text | 13:59 |
| kanzure | I think most people are asking for #3 -- and that's *hard* since day-to-day decisions are decided by you know, people | 14:44 |
| kanzure | 'how people would live there' (as if it's a location?) | 14:44 |
| fenn | yep it's a location just as much as #hplusroadmap is | 15:18 |
| fenn | more so even, since there's "stuff" to play with | 15:27 |
| procto | kanzure: the metanexus article, as with the fernhout (farnhout?) letters to kurzweil there is an assumption of some sort "capitalist ideology" that those being argued against hold | 15:32 |
| procto | that's a hand wave if I ever saw one | 15:32 |
| procto | still reading the article | 15:32 |
| procto | that just jumped at me | 15:32 |
| kanzure | fenn: but then you get into the 'suggestions for a micronation' stuff | 15:55 |
| kanzure | fenn: I fully expect to be able to run SKDB within our current locations, given some shed space or something | 15:55 |
| kanzure | procto: yes, it's Fernhout | 15:55 |
| kanzure | procto: Fernhout didn't hold the capitalistic ideology | 15:56 |
| kanzure | procto: And it's pretty clear, I think, that Kurzweil is coming from the capitalist perspective. | 15:56 |
| fenn | heh no i mean as a virtual location, not a shed | 15:58 |
| kanzure | http://biogang.wikispaces.com/ | 15:58 |
| kanzure | oh | 15:58 |
| kanzure | you were sounding kinda micronation on me | 15:59 |
| kanzure | which isn't bad, but it's also harder to sell :( | 15:59 |
| fenn | an order of magnitude harder sell | 15:59 |
| kanzure | hrm, BioGang is on GitHub? | 15:59 |
| kanzure | ' | 15:59 |
| kanzure | It just dawned on me that startups are obsolete. Sustainable, distributed bursty work is the future.' | 16:00 |
| fenn | i just mean day to day operations joe user will have to perform to get his work done, and how it affects other people he's working with | 16:00 |
| kanzure | hrm, I hope BioGang has an IRC channel | 16:01 |
| procto | kanzure: I meant the opposite. that is, that at least the initial thrust of the argument is that a prior a "capitalist ideology" is wrong, and merely ascribing this to the idea your are attacking is serving to advance your argument. | 16:02 |
| procto | you are* | 16:02 |
| procto | this isn't a value judgement on my part | 16:02 |
| procto | but rather, I am perplexed as to why they do this | 16:03 |
| kanzure | I don't understand. The author is the one arguing strawman re: capitalistic ideology, which is *probably* stemming from Kurzweil/WTA territory. | 16:03 |
| procto | right | 16:03 |
| procto | that's what I mean | 16:03 |
| procto | that "capitalist ideology" is the strawman | 16:03 |
| procto | and it's used as a relatively strongly-knit bundle of ideas, when in fact it isn't | 16:04 |
| kanzure | right | 16:04 |
| procto | I was just saying that this isn't the first time I've seen that | 16:04 |
| kanzure | Ah, perhaps I can present a system that is in fact, truly, quantified | 16:04 |
| kanzure | http://openwetware.org/wiki/OpenWetWare:Steering_committee/Town_Hall_Meeting/2008/06/12 | 16:04 |
| procto | and that it is assumed that transhumanists would be capitalists (whatever that term, coined by marx, means) and that this undermines the validity of their ideas | 16:05 |
| kanzure | procto: Well, in truth | 16:06 |
| kanzure | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transhumanism | 16:06 |
| kanzure | Read the first few sentences very carefully. | 16:06 |
| kanzure | Now realize that *that* is the intro that the majority of people are getting. | 16:06 |
| procto | sort of like starting a discussion with "the person I'm arguing against is mildly retarded, but I'll humor them and here are how I disagree with them..." | 16:06 |
| procto | is* | 16:08 |
| procto | that doesn't excuse inadequate arguments :> | 16:08 |
| kanzure | Of course. But it's a source of confusion that might be worth fixing ... eventually. | 16:10 |
| procto | people often seem to come to a conclusion such as "so... you're a libertarian who wants to put a computer in your brain?" | 16:12 |
| procto | and would produce arguments from that starting point | 16:13 |
| procto | which in the longer term may be a large obstacle to acceptance | 16:13 |
| procto | when the tar brush of "the republican party, libertarians, and big business" will be trotted out by the left, much like fernhout has done, it will be difficult to overcome. (Much as claims of communism and socialism will come from the right, but it seems to me that we are now more temporally removed from the points of reference for that, and that there is a lesser visceral negative reaction to those already) | 16:15 |
| fenn | does wikipedia have a less sucky diff viewer? | 16:19 |
| fenn | so i dont have to click like 50 times to get a full history of the page | 16:19 |
| kanzure | bleh, can't even get a good intro for a new_exp.html going | 16:23 |
| kanzure | there are many possible approaches to this subject | 16:23 |
| kanzure | I'm thinking of taking the 'intellectually honest' approach | 16:23 |
| kanzure | i.e., 'honestly: this can be done in a better way' | 16:23 |
| * fenn edited one words on wikipedia/transhumanism.. we'll see how long it lasts | 16:24 | |
| fenn | word* | 16:24 |
| kanzure | what word? | 16:25 |
| kanzure | ah | 16:26 |
| procto | kanzure: I recommend making a new diagram, because I honestly have 0 clue as to what it means :> | 16:30 |
| kanzure | Yes, but the first written sentence. | 16:30 |
| kanzure | A new diagram could be made, sure. | 16:30 |
| procto | pictures are useful :> | 16:31 |
| fenn | the diagram is almost completely irrelevant | 16:31 |
| kanzure | I honestly don't know where to begin | 16:31 |
| kanzure | do I begin at open source? | 16:31 |
| kanzure | at the idea of being reasonable and honest about the state of the current systems? | 16:31 |
| kanzure | at the idea of social/civilizational debugging? | 16:32 |
| fenn | compare/contrast where we are vs where we want to be | 16:32 |
| procto | kanzure: are you related to forrest bishop? | 16:32 |
| kanzure | procto: Nope. | 16:32 |
| kanzure | Well. | 16:33 |
| kanzure | I've only traced my ancestry back 16 generations. | 16:33 |
| kanzure | And I didn't trace Forrest's ... so. Maybe? | 16:33 |
| procto | haha | 16:33 |
| procto | a no is good enough for me | 16:33 |
| kanzure | fenn: and where do we want to be? That's going to be hard to describe without making it sound like a utopia. | 16:35 |
| kanzure | "I had to buy a tooth brush today. This sucks. Here's how it should be." | 16:35 |
| fenn | yes that's a good start | 16:36 |
| procto | recommendation: pretend you are talking to a professor of literature | 16:36 |
| procto | I test my concepts out by explaining them to my english b.a. girlfriend to see if they pass explanatory muster | 16:37 |
| kanzure | fenn: a toothbrush? | 16:38 |
| kanzure | I mean, most people are just going to read this and say "just grow some balls and shell out the cash" | 16:38 |
| fenn | that's a valid argument under a certain set of assumptions, so you need to identify the assumptions relevant to "just buying" a toothbrush | 16:39 |
| fenn | and then blast them into slimy gore | 16:39 |
| fenn | another way to do it is to pick a main character that lives in a world where those assumptions are not true | 16:40 |
| kanzure | hrm, blasting them to gore would be interesting | 16:42 |
| kanzure | but I might sound like an angry old man without a toothbrush :) | 16:42 |
| * kanzure needs to pick a better product | 16:43 | |
| kanzure | maybe a computer? | 16:43 |
| kanzure | that can relate to a lot of technical support stuff | 16:43 |
| fenn | no, people hate computers anyway | 16:43 |
| fenn | think "minimal complexity to demonstrate the concept" | 16:43 |
| kanzure | agriculture tech? | 16:44 |
| kanzure | has nice tie-ins to the bioreactor stuff | 16:44 |
| procto | I've read the exp page | 16:45 |
| procto | and I'm still rather fuzzy | 16:45 |
| procto | can you describe it to me in 3 sentences or less? | 16:45 |
| fenn | might be hard to convince you need all these fancy computer technologies just to grow plants | 16:45 |
| procto | it can be full of terms you don't define | 16:45 |
| procto | I just want to get a feel of the ideas encapsulated | 16:45 |
| procto | fenn: I should print cards with borlaug's face on them, so when someone starts telling me how bad GMOs are, I can just hand them one and walk away | 16:46 |
| kanzure | open repository project geared towards both digital and physical computation+manufacturing ultimately a design strategy for making a self-replicating design of a machine, but useful for a hell of a lot of other reasons in the mean time | 16:47 |
| fenn | procto: "GMO" is just too broad a label to say anything about | 16:48 |
| procto | fenn: well *I* know that. but someone who's spouting about how bad they are doesn't. | 16:48 |
| procto | kanzure: so, self-replicating machinery to alleviate issues of scarcity? | 16:48 |
| procto | able to be produced in a decentralized distributed manner by humans? | 16:49 |
| procto | with power sources being what? provided or discovered? | 16:49 |
| fenn | "both digital and physical computation+manufacturing" can be shortened to just digital manufacturing | 16:49 |
| fenn | maybe you mean amorphous computing? | 16:50 |
| fenn | procto: power sources are the same as we already have, you can build a machine to take advantage of a local energy gradient | 16:51 |
| procto | what I mean is, is power still "centralized" or is each machine in charge of finding and connecting to one? | 16:51 |
| fenn | "it depends" | 16:53 |
| procto | I see | 16:53 |
| fenn | decentralized power is a lot simpler because it scales the same as the replicator | 16:53 |
| fenn | kanzure: if you write a compelling article i'll draw some pictures for it | 16:55 |
| -!- Topic for #hplusroadmap: Intro: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXKbzbeipmI http://diybio.org/ http://openwetware.org/ | diy bio toolkit: http://biohack.sf.net/ | Automated societal knowledge (put it to work): http://heybryan.org/exp.html | Channel wiki: http://heybryan.org/mediawiki/ | F/OSS perspectives on Kurzweil: http://heybryan.org/fernhout/ | 17:07 | |
| -!- Topic set by kanzure [] [Sun Jun 8 13:00:15 2008] | 17:07 | |
| fenn | i need an air-hockey office chair | 17:11 |
| fenn | instead of just leather, its inflated and has thousands of tiny holes in the fabric | 17:12 |
| kanzure | procto: No, 'issues of scarcity' isn't the point all that much. | 17:27 |
| kanzure | it'd be nice | 17:27 |
| kanzure | and it's a result it seems. | 17:28 |
| kanzure | but the main point is the self-replicator design itself, and manufacturing | 17:28 |
| kanzure | technically since the galaxies are finite, there will always be this notion of scarcithy | 17:28 |
| kanzure | *scarcity | 17:28 |
| kanzure | but frankly this is currently ridiculous | 17:28 |
| procto | so what's the goal theat this is means for? | 17:38 |
| kanzure | self-replicator | 17:42 |
| kanzure | (that also has other functionality besides just spitting out a copy of itself, i.e. programmable) | 17:43 |
| kanzure | but again, those possibilities also can be addressed | 17:47 |
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| kanzure | and although there's a very specific goal, it's not something that requires everybody be bolted to the floor working on very specific steps | 17:47 |
| kanzure | cis-action: Do you know about 'biogang' ? | 17:48 |
| procto | I mean, what are the positive things that a self-replicator will bring about? | 17:51 |
| procto | or is that the goal itself? | 17:52 |
| procto | with no specific purpose? | 17:52 |
| kanzure | Well, supposedly, if you are able to work with any of the materials involved in the making of that machine, then you can use that machine to also make similar objects of a different sort. | 17:53 |
| kanzure | But on the other hand I'd be ok if it ends up being impossible since we'd have lots of manufacturing capacity added about | 17:53 |
| kanzure | I'm pretty sure it's not impossible :) | 17:54 |
| kanzure | given that I am a self-replicating machine :) | 17:54 |
| fenn | i think a self replicator is a means to a goal | 18:00 |
| fenn | but it gets into icky philosophy stuff that has been argued for millenia and never reached any conclusions | 18:01 |
| fenn | 'freedom' is about as much as i'm willing to articulate | 18:02 |
| fenn | kanzure: any thoughts on the possibility of a second-life like layer for social interaction between people and skdb projects? | 18:09 |
| kanzure | To what extent? | 18:10 |
| fenn | i've got idea stuck in my head where a village is planning a new barn or whatever, and they can see the design progressing in augmented reality as it progresses | 18:11 |
| kanzure | modeling and so on? | 18:11 |
| kanzure | hrm | 18:11 |
| kanzure | yeah, sure, why not | 18:11 |
| fenn | but also simulation so you can play with ideas | 18:11 |
| kanzure | but I wouldn't emphasize it much | 18:11 |
| kanzure | gets tangled up with way, way too many other things | 18:11 |
| kanzure | like "oh, so it's a simulation project!" | 18:11 |
| kanzure | "no, not really" | 18:11 |
| fenn | but it is, sorta | 18:12 |
| kanzure | well, yes | 18:13 |
| fenn | i'd love to just be able to 'watch it go' | 18:13 |
| fenn | since skdb defines the relationships between objects, you could have many disparate simulation packages running at once, interacting | 18:13 |
| fenn | possibly on different computers | 18:14 |
| fenn | it doesnt have to be 100% accurate, just plausible | 18:14 |
| kanzure | so, has anybody had a drive on public transportation? | 18:14 |
| kanzure | I'm wondering where the pickup stop is | 18:14 |
| fenn | the bus stop? | 18:14 |
| kanzure | yes, but it can't be the same as the drop off stop | 18:14 |
| fenn | why not? | 18:14 |
| kanzure | wrong side of the road | 18:15 |
| fenn | look for a sign with the bus logo on it | 18:15 |
| kanzure | :) | 18:15 |
| kanzure | I don't understand the requested stop signaling system. | 18:15 |
| kanzure | aren't they supposed to stop at the stops anyway? | 18:16 |
| fenn | dunno, i've never heard of a requested stop signaling system | 18:16 |
| kanzure | think of a train | 18:16 |
| kanzure | well, at least the ones in the movies | 18:16 |
| * fenn loads train.skdb | 18:16 | |
| kanzure | they pull the strand, emergency brakes kick in | 18:16 |
| kanzure | btw, we still have to decide if we want <objects>.skdb or just <procs.skdb> and then some other way to implement them or something | 18:17 |
| kanzure | it's no biggie | 18:17 |
| kanzure | oh, it's object oriented | 18:17 |
| kanzure | nevermind | 18:17 |
| kanzure | and then there can be methods inside | 18:17 |
| kanzure | <fire>.skdb ;-) | 18:17 |
| * kanzure goes | 18:17 | |
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| wrldpc | I'm going to the meeting. I'll try and record it but my camcorder is being weird. | 18:42 |
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| kanzure | fenn: It'd be nice if I could be completely informal about it. | 21:28 |
| procto | #diybio is now go! | 21:39 |
| * procto is at the meeting | 21:39 | |
| kanzure | Why isn't there anyone in #diybio? | 21:40 |
| kanzure | Also, why isn't anybody using the git repo? :( | 21:40 |
| procto | because I just created in | 21:40 |
| procto | I'm there | 21:40 |
| kanzure | Why not anyone else? | 21:41 |
| procto | because I just created it, and no one else is on computers | 21:41 |
| kanzure | Isn't it over by now? | 21:51 |
| kanzure | 7 to 9, yes? | 21:51 |
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| kanzure | fenn: I'm thinking of making it in the form of an informal interview. This way there's somebody actually talking with somebody else, in a legitimate way. | 22:14 |
| kanzure | fenn: It also makes it personal. The idea is personal anyway, right? It's about people and the engineers, even if techies would rather look away from people. | 22:14 |
| kanzure | Afterwards I'll throw up some concise statements selected from it. | 22:14 |
| kanzure | So earlier today I thought I had accidentally overdosed on my morning medication. I was feeling very, peculiar. However, now that the medication has had time to get out of my system, and I'm still feeling the same way, I'm starting to wonder what's going on. At first I described it as if there's an apple in my throat. But really it's like it's in the back of my throat. | 22:16 |
| kanzure | I seem to be able to do controlled hyperactivity. I'm not inattentive, in fact just the opposite. | 22:16 |
| fenn | allergic reaction to something | 22:16 |
| kanzure | Nah, it's coupled with some psychological effects. I am very much "in the zone". | 22:17 |
| fenn | carry on, then | 22:17 |
| fenn | um, is someone actually interviewing you? | 22:18 |
| fenn | or is it like, kanzure's left brain interviewing his right brain | 22:18 |
| kanzure | :) | 22:18 |
| kanzure | Well, as it turns out, R. U. Sirius might have a goon | 22:18 |
| kanzure | that could interview me. | 22:18 |
| kanzure | This way, I don't have to present a coherent view all at once. | 22:19 |
| kanzure | I can take it at strides and show multiple entry-paths into the same core concept. | 22:19 |
| kanzure | i.e., "What about people that need to provide for families?" | 22:19 |
| kanzure | or "But don't companies own this technology?" | 22:19 |
| fenn | let me know if diybio progresses beyond the squabbling stage | 22:21 |
| kanzure | no kidding :( | 22:22 |
| Splicer | are they really squabbling? | 22:30 |
| kanzure | Splicer: I think he refers to the territorialism. | 22:31 |
| kanzure | Also, the ethics stuff. | 22:31 |
| Splicer | i think they kinda have to adress that.. they are academia most of them... it's a good thing someone does... they put their necks out.. good thing | 22:32 |
| kanzure | uh? | 22:34 |
| kanzure | You don't get it. No matter how 'ethical' you might be, ebola will still kill you. | 22:34 |
| Splicer | the ethics stuff is not for us.. it's to keep people calm | 22:35 |
| Splicer | politics | 22:36 |
| kanzure | Uh? | 22:38 |
| kanzure | Who cares? | 22:38 |
| Splicer | The way they present it is the only way bioDIY can be persented to the general public. They see academics talking about saftey and ethics and being proactive... | 22:40 |
| kanzure | What? | 22:40 |
| kanzure | (1) What is "bioDIY" and why isn't it "diybio" ? | 22:41 |
| kanzure | (2) The general public doesn't need a presentation. They are walking, talking, self-replicating machines. | 22:41 |
| kanzure | (3) Safety and ethics are out the window on this one. There is no safety. This is why you get sick. | 22:41 |
| Splicer | cause i miswrite it all the time and it had more hits on google last month | 22:41 |
| Splicer | you miss the point.. the safteytalk is not supposed to be for out consumtion.. it's for the general public | 22:43 |
| kanzure | Sounds like strawman to me. | 22:44 |
| Splicer | a paranoid general public is a force to recon with | 22:45 |
| kanzure | The more you act like they have something to be paranoid about, the more paranoid they will probably get. | 22:45 |
| kanzure | The whole project ends up *helping* them. | 22:46 |
| kanzure | So what the hell's the problem? | 22:46 |
| Splicer | you're wrong, they know exactly what you know but have thought ahead one step. | 22:46 |
| kanzure | no they haven't | 22:47 |
| kanzure | trust me :) | 22:47 |
| -!- freer [n=freer@209-20-74-204.slicehost.net] has joined #hplusroadmap | 22:47 | |
| kanzure | Hey freer. In here we're about the biohacking projects, some DIY stuffs, manufacturing, etc. :) | 22:47 |
| kanzure | check the /topic | 22:47 |
| freer | cool, thanks | 22:47 |
| Splicer | about 20 years ago there was a general who took power in poland...Jaruzelski, he was a dictator and looked the part, imposed martial law, got people killed.. stuff like that. | 22:50 |
| Splicer | He was easily one of the most hated guys in europe... | 22:50 |
| kanzure | Who says anything about nation-states being useful ? | 22:51 |
| Splicer | Then the soviet union fell... and he organized elections and left power immediately... | 22:51 |
| Splicer | later .. he eaplains.. I had to do this.. if I hadn't done it the russinas would have occupied the country... | 22:52 |
| Splicer | and he was right | 22:52 |
| Splicer | it's a question of the lesser evil... politics | 22:53 |
| kanzure | No, you are wrong. | 22:53 |
| kanzure | Are you brainwashed? | 22:54 |
| kanzure | I mean, what country do you live in? | 22:54 |
| kanzure | Was it Sweden? | 22:54 |
| Splicer | yes | 22:54 |
| Splicer | this saftey thing.. why is it even so annoying to you? | 22:54 |
| kanzure | Because it's totally bullshit. Focus on it from the correct point of view. | 22:54 |
| kanzure | Safety is thermodynamically impossible, give it up already. | 22:55 |
| Splicer | yes... but i'm trying to tell you tah has nothing to do with the issue | 22:55 |
| kanzure | Yes it does, it has everything to do with the issue. | 22:55 |
| kanzure | Do you want to live forever ? | 22:55 |
| wrldpc | yyyyyyo | 22:55 |
| wrldpc | I want to live forever. | 22:56 |
| * kanzure points out that 'immortality' isn't necessarily the goal, but it's a good question to ask in a time like that. ;-) | 22:56 | |
| wrldpc | I am living forever. | 22:56 |
| wrldpc | Safety first. | 22:56 |
| kanzure | I mean, if you're serious about making sure the systems are actually functioning correctly, you need to move past the security nonsense and into the actual design strategies. You need to consider multiple redundancy, backups, good system design principles (i.e., removing single points of failure, like a single human body, etc.). | 22:57 |
| wrldpc | yeh | 22:57 |
| wrldpc | sacrifice | 22:57 |
| Splicer | man... you miss the point | 22:57 |
| kanzure | No, no sacrifice. | 22:57 |
| kanzure | Splicer: *You* miss the point. :( | 22:57 |
| wrldpc | you also want a healthy body though. | 22:57 |
| kanzure | wrldpc: Sure. | 22:57 |
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| wrldpc | DIY Bio was great man. Your legend grows!! | 22:58 |
| wrldpc | :) | 22:58 |
| kanzure | wrldpc: How so? | 22:58 |
| Splicer | I'm telling you again.. yeah there is no total saftey, I never said there was.. Noone believes there is.. that's not why they are stressing it | 22:58 |
| kanzure | procto, did you meet wrldpc there? | 22:58 |
| wrldpc | Healthily. | 22:58 |
| wrldpc | procto are you Mike? | 22:58 |
| wrldpc | Mac? | 22:58 |
| kanzure | Splicer: No, they are stressing it because other people keep stressing it. Give them the alternative that we suggest in here. That's the whole point. | 22:58 |
| kanzure | wrldpc: Mac is cis-action. | 22:58 |
| wrldpc | Yo the Boston Transhumanist meeting is on the 15th I think. | 22:59 |
| kanzure | Some good that does me. :( | 22:59 |
| kanzure | <-- wrong part of the continent. | 22:59 |
| wrldpc | 19th | 22:59 |
| wrldpc | heh | 22:59 |
| Splicer | Kanzure: you think you can argue with people.. you can't half of the inhabitants in the US believe in creationism | 22:59 |
| wrldpc | you'll get here. | 22:59 |
| kanzure | Splicer: That doesn't matter though. | 22:59 |
| wrldpc | Splicer if you can fix the world then do it. | 22:59 |
| kanzure | Splicer: Their arguments don't change the nature of reality. | 22:59 |
| kanzure | Splicer: Verbal argumentation doesn't change the status of AIDS victims, for example. | 23:00 |
| Splicer | kanzure: no.. but it's an example.. people as a group can only understand simple concepts... | 23:00 |
| wrldpc | Are you guys arguing from some sort of objective truth or some kind of superior subjective interpretation? | 23:00 |
| wrldpc | women and men need each other to survive. | 23:00 |
| wrldpc | and I mean that in every way. | 23:00 |
| Splicer | wrldpc: ;) | 23:00 |
| wrldpc | heh | 23:01 |
| kanzure | wrldpc: Basically Splicer is arguing that 'ethics are necessary', and we're trying to point out that it's just bullshit, and we need to address the actual systemic issues. | 23:01 |
| wrldpc | Mm. | 23:01 |
| Splicer | kanzure... for the fourth time.. that's not what i'm saying | 23:01 |
| wrldpc | Superior ethics naturally intertwine and are veracified by the technica I think. The physics. | 23:01 |
| kanzure | Splicer: "you miss the point.. the safteytalk is not supposed to be for out consumtion.. it's for the general public" | 23:01 |
| kanzure | Splicer: "The way they present it is the only way bioDIY can be persented to the general public. They see academics talking about saftey and ethics and being proactive... " | 23:02 |
| Splicer | yeah... "talk about ethic and saftey is necessary" .. it keeps the drones calm | 23:02 |
| kanzure | ... | 23:02 |
| kanzure | What are drones? | 23:03 |
| Splicer | the 50+% cretionists for instance | 23:03 |
| kanzure | Who cares about them? | 23:03 |
| kanzure | I mean, I'll help them out if I can, I guess. | 23:03 |
| kanzure | But I really have other things to be doing. | 23:03 |
| wrldpc | Aren't all humans unified by virtue of their coincident existence? | 23:04 |
| ybit | oi kanzure, i saw your message when i woke this afternoon around 5pm :P i'll get to reading your article just as soon as my internet is fixed, but it looks interesting :) | 23:04 |
| kanzure | My article? | 23:04 |
| ybit | yep | 23:04 |
| kanzure | ybit: I did some commentary on an article I read today. Don't read the article. It's a waste. | 23:05 |
| ybit | will do then | 23:05 |
| kanzure | You can read my commentary, though. | 23:05 |
| kanzure | http://lists.extropy.org/pipermail/extropy-chat/2008-June/043989.html | 23:05 |
| ybit | cool | 23:05 |
| Splicer | ybit: You were the one who posted that youtubeclip about the sun being powered by electricity right? | 23:05 |
| ybit | Splicer: right | 23:05 |
| Splicer | ...i wrote some comments to it there... as 'cybersmuff' | 23:06 |
| ybit | sweet, i'll check it out :) | 23:07 |
| fenn | strategies of safety/reliability/security aside, i think the "ethical" label unappropriately politicizes any actions of the group.. anyone can question any activity and call "ethics" forcing everyone to stop what they're doing and say 'shut up you wanker' | 23:07 |
| fenn | and generate endless circular arguments with no basis | 23:07 |
| fenn | instead of some progressive technical activity | 23:07 |
| fenn | you might as well say 'holy' instead of ethical, unmask it as the religious argument that it is | 23:08 |
| Splicer | have they marked anything as unethical yet? | 23:09 |
| fenn | anything can be considered ethical or unethical depending on your motives and circumstance | 23:09 |
| fenn | DIYbio - the non-genocidal biohacking group! | 23:09 |
| fenn | (except all those annoying pest animals and insects) | 23:10 |
| fenn | (and northkoreans and iranians) | 23:10 |
| Splicer | yes I understand.. but I have a feeling they may be claiming the territory... if the own the word... we may be able to do what we want.. we would be the ones defining it. | 23:11 |
| kanzure | fenn: don't forget to Join Now. | 23:11 |
| Splicer | there is beauty to the fact that the word means everything and nothing... people need to feel someone is in control of things | 23:12 |
| fenn | its the same thing that bugs me about wta.org | 23:12 |
| kanzure | Who cares what they feel? | 23:12 |
| ybit | bb soon | 23:12 |
| fenn | we're supposed to be the wingnuts, not some sleazy respectably whitewashed corporation | 23:13 |
| ybit | nm | 23:13 |
| Splicer | who's stopping you | 23:13 |
| * kanzure spots a Superkuh. (2008-06-12 22:17:46) Superkuh: HelloMeow: My initial searches turn up nothing. I usually default to gigapedia.org first, then the gnutella2 peer to peer network, then various IRC ebook channels. | 23:13 | |
| * kanzure wonders where the good IRC chans are. | 23:13 | |
| fenn | flakk.org #bw used to have a lot, but now the main server is gone | 23:14 |
| fenn | i dont know of any journalz though :) | 23:14 |
| kanzure | Bah, I'm good with journal trading now. | 23:14 |
| kanzure | http://heybryan.org/docs/warez_boards.txt or just using my university proxy login. | 23:15 |
| kanzure | http://superkuh.ath.cx/ <--- | 23:15 |
| kanzure | particularly http://superkuh.ath.cx/users/superkuh/ | 23:17 |
| kanzure | I still don't know what the hell he is doing. | 23:18 |
| Splicer | fenn: Not intended to be a plug, but instead of copying it: http://www.biopunk.org/post110.html#p110 ... after having been thinking about it for a while.. this is really the way I feel about it now. | 23:20 |
| wrldpc | DIY Photos: http://www.flickr.com/photos/worldpeace/ | 23:22 |
| Splicer | you were there? | 23:22 |
| Splicer | hehehe... I like them ;) | 23:24 |
| kanzure | We need tags. | 23:25 |
| kanzure | wrldpc: But really. Tell me more about this ... legend. | 23:26 |
| wrldpc | You're loved, Brian. | 23:26 |
| kanzure | I thought they all hated me. :) | 23:26 |
| wrldpc | Yo what is .git? | 23:27 |
| wrldpc | nvm | 23:27 |
| kanzure | wrldpc: Repository format. :) | 23:27 |
| kanzure | Sort of. | 23:27 |
| * Splicer likes kanzure too | 23:27 | |
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| Splicer | wrldpc: I link to your flikr page.. hope it's ok | 23:41 |
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| wrldpc | No sweat. | 23:43 |
| wrldpc | That's fine, Splicer. | 23:43 |
| wrldpc | I have family from Sweden. | 23:43 |
| Splicer | me too | 23:46 |
| Splicer | Thanks for taking pictures btw.. it's nice to see the people involved | 23:47 |
| wrldpc | no doubt | 23:56 |
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