| --- Day changed Mon Jul 21 2008 | ||
| kanzure | it's somewhat because I've been too relient on psychobabble | 00:01 |
|---|---|---|
| kanzure | suppose you have your simulations and somehow the computational capacity as well | 00:01 |
| kanzure | what now? | 00:01 |
| kanzure | you can't say they do anything with your own grammatical identification since you're verging on psychobabble, in truth we don't really know what they will be doing | 00:02 |
| kanzure | this is also kind of the problem with a physical setup as well :-) | 00:03 |
| kanzure | but people have worked with neuron cultures before and have even made them fly virtual airplanes :-) | 00:03 |
| ybit | [Sat Jul 19 2008] [18:30:17] <kanzure>from a user-perspective the functionality can be (1) neurotagging their own issues on the site, (2) MRI data sets studies and 3D reconstruction, whatever, (3) real time streaming server software for neurofeedback of the sort that OpenEEG got into (and that open-rtms needs to get into) | 00:11 |
| kanzure | yes? | 00:30 |
| kanzure | bah, what's the use of having subway on the corner of the street if they're not open during their business hours | 00:48 |
| * ybit gets sleep | 01:20 | |
| kanzure | oh, here's what neurons are good at - signal processing | 01:48 |
| kanzure | so it's just an i/o problem | 01:48 |
| kanzure | necessitating more bootstrapping | 01:48 |
| kanzure | hurray | 01:48 |
| -!- Biopunk [n=p@h99n1c1o261.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #hplusroadmap | 02:10 | |
| -!- Splicer [n=p@h3n1c1o261.bredband.skanova.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] | 02:18 | |
| -!- Splicer [n=p@h22n1c1o261.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #hplusroadmap | 02:37 | |
| -!- Biopunk [n=p@h99n1c1o261.bredband.skanova.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] | 02:49 | |
| -!- Splicer [n=p@h22n1c1o261.bredband.skanova.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] | 02:57 | |
| -!- ybit [n=h@unaffiliated/ybit] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] | 03:37 | |
| -!- jm [n=jm@p57B9C6CE.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #hplusroadmap | 04:08 | |
| -!- ybit [n=h@unaffiliated/ybit] has joined #hplusroadmap | 10:06 | |
| -!- nsh [n=chatzill@wikipedia/nsh] has joined #hplusroadmap | 10:12 | |
| kanzure | http://www.greylodge.org/tracker/gettorrent.php?info_hash=1969497f5ded57bbe9e1df339724c881517c5505 Technocalyps - http://greylodge.org/gpc/?p=1496 - part 1: transhuman, part 2: preparing for a singularity, part 3: metaphysics of technology | 10:46 |
| -!- nsh [n=chatzill@wikipedia/nsh] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.82.1 [Firefox 3.0.1/2008070208]"] | 11:18 | |
| -!- nsh [n=nsh@87-94-146-186.tampere.customers.dnainternet.fi] has joined #hplusroadmap | 11:36 | |
| kanzure | it isn't in the trailer | 11:48 |
| -!- Splicer [n=p@h124n1c1o261.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #hplusroadmap | 15:37 | |
| -!- jm [n=jm@p57B9C6CE.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] | 15:39 | |
| kanzure | http://groups.google.com/group/biobarcamp/web/upcoming-bbcampers | 16:15 |
| kanzure | I need to come up with a kickass presentation | 16:15 |
| ybit | where's it taking place? | 16:17 |
| ybit | frederick, maryland??? | 16:17 |
| kanzure | Palo Alto, CA. | 16:19 |
| nsh | kanzure | 16:27 |
| nsh | what was that video you referenced about 6-7h ago | 16:27 |
| kanzure | uhh | 16:28 |
| nsh | some sing/trans seminal or something? | 16:28 |
| nsh | *seminar | 16:28 |
| kanzure | yes | 16:28 |
| kanzure | http://www.greylodge.org/tracker/gettorrent.php?info_hash=1969497f5ded57bbe9e1df339724c881517c5505 | 16:28 |
| kanzure | desc: http://greylodge.org/gpc/?p=1496 | 16:28 |
| nsh | cheers | 16:28 |
| ybit | before constructing regions of the brain, wouldn't it make sense to simulate first? | 16:45 |
| ybit | just looking at me log of course... "Anyway, I want to be able to 'trade' and 'plug and play' those modules of brain simulation or recipes for the construction of regions of the brain or other neural tissues." | 16:46 |
| kanzure | what's the point of simulation | 16:47 |
| ybit | so you don't screw up | 16:48 |
| kanzure | screw what up | 16:48 |
| ybit | aaaah | 16:48 |
| ybit | okay, i misread that | 16:48 |
| ybit | i was thinking brain prosthetics | 16:48 |
| kanzure | while that would be interesting, there's little chance that we will shove that into our brains | 16:49 |
| kanzure | partly the problem is that it's too much psychology for me to handle | 16:49 |
| kanzure | what the hell is attention, anyway? | 16:49 |
| ybit | did you ask to shut me up, because that would take awhile for me to come to some conclusion :P | 16:50 |
| ybit | wikipedia always knows though | 16:50 |
| kanzure | hm? | 16:52 |
| kanzure | I did not ask you to shut up | 16:52 |
| ybit | i know, it was a lame joke | 16:52 |
| kanzure | I'm just saying, there's little that you can do with simulations at the moment since we don't know what attention is | 16:52 |
| ybit | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attention for anyone interested | 16:52 |
| kanzure | that doesn't tell me anything | 16:53 |
| ybit | how so? | 16:53 |
| ybit | are you wanting a biological explanation? | 16:53 |
| kanzure | yep | 16:54 |
| kanzure | I want to do away with the definition/concept of 'attention' but still get similar results | 16:54 |
| * nsh wonders what results kanzure refers to | 16:54 | |
| kanzure | nsh: the only thing to be grounded to at the moment seems to be stuff in research from http://heybryan.org/mediawiki/index.php/Sustained_attention | 16:54 |
| ybit | what do you think of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attention#Neural_correlates_of_attention kanzure | 16:54 |
| kanzure | doesn't tell me much | 16:55 |
| kanzure | talks about working memory, but doesn't mention any neurons really | 16:55 |
| kanzure | ' | 16:56 |
| kanzure | At the next lower level, a variety of spacial maps are found in the parietal cortex. In particular, the lateral intraparietal area (LIP) contains a saliency map and is interconnected both with the FEF and with sensory areas.' | 16:56 |
| kanzure | meh | 16:56 |
| nsh | the meme "neural correlate[s] of *" starts to annoy me | 16:57 |
| kanzure | I don't want a correlate, I want the bottom up functionality | 16:58 |
| nsh | loss of function experiments aren't particularly revealing when studying a complex and poorly-understood faculty :-/ | 17:00 |
| kanzure | rogjt | 17:09 |
| kanzure | right | 17:09 |
| kanzure | so it's all sorts of suck | 17:09 |
| kanzure | so obviously my overall approach also sucks | 17:09 |
| kanzure | I was hoping to just come up with some feedback and bioinstrumentation to try to make "defeating inattention" like a video game on autopilot ;-) | 17:09 |
| kanzure | but there's no guarantee of any of it working at all | 17:09 |
| kanzure | and neural tissues or simulations are basically just signal processors and actuators, so you'd need to have some pretty hefty i/o | 17:10 |
| kanzure | fyi: I leave Saturday. | 17:12 |
| nsh | whither?^Wwhere to? | 17:12 |
| kanzure | Palo Alto, California | 17:12 |
| kanzure | know thy enemy or something | 17:12 |
| nsh | oh, right | 17:13 |
| nsh | hope if goes well | 17:13 |
| nsh | *it | 17:13 |
| kanzure | basically it's just some web development | 17:13 |
| nsh | there are primary and auxiliary reasons for everything :-) | 17:21 |
| kanzure | what? | 17:25 |
| nsh | nm | 17:28 |
| kanzure | hahah | 17:30 |
| kanzure | I like how *after* the tickets are bought the parents clue in and start getting angry | 17:30 |
| ybit | hehe | 17:35 |
| ybit | siai, right? | 17:35 |
| ybit | terribly put..but... | 17:35 |
| ybit | perhaps the purpose of building a simulation of the brain is to have precise knowledge of its fuction, allowing all types of interesting things to be done with the information; such as allowing nanoengineers enabling nanobot engineers to know what and where to interface the machines with the brain | 17:36 |
| ybit | grr | 17:36 |
| ybit | such as enabling nanobot engineers ... to.......... | 17:37 |
| ybit | ok, girl talk is getting on my nerves now | 17:37 |
| kanzure | yeah ... | 17:38 |
| kanzure | I'm not going to wait around for nanobots | 17:38 |
| ybit | understanding neurological disorders, and umm... other things | 17:38 |
| kanzure | ... | 17:38 |
| ybit | yeah, that's quite a ways awy | 17:38 |
| ybit | having a better understanding neuro disorders | 17:39 |
| ybit | ..that is | 17:39 |
| ybit | with a graphical simulation, there'd be patterns not recognized before | 17:40 |
| kanzure | what patterns | 17:41 |
| ybit | this is me doing a terrible job coming up with reasons why a simulation would be useful | 17:42 |
| kanzure | yep | 17:42 |
| ybit | good question, i haven't a clue | 17:42 |
| ybit | i could probably scour the web to find some, but it'd take me awhile since i have little knowledge in the field | 17:42 |
| kanzure | you're going the wrong way though :( | 17:43 |
| kanzure | think bottom up, not top down | 17:43 |
| kanzure | "simulations! yeah! great. ok. now what." | 17:43 |
| kanzure | versus "hm, it would be useful if we could grow some simulations or wetware to process some extra information and see which GAs can evolve the best genomes for neural information processing of this sort or another .." | 17:43 |
| kanzure | I'm gone until tomorrow | 17:44 |
| ybit | thanks for the input | 17:46 |
| ybit | later, gl | 17:46 |
| * nsh mumbles incorehently, though with a detectable undertone of disparagement | 18:00 | |
| ybit | was that for me? i'm quite stupid, but come on, take it easy :) | 18:22 |
| nsh | nah, for kanzure :-) | 18:33 |
| nsh | (well, at a more general annoyance which was evoked by kanzure's statement about evolving genomes) | 18:35 |
| ybit | "grow some simulations"..growing? and i'm curious what simulations he had in mind | 18:42 |
| ybit | anyone know? | 18:42 |
| -!- PanGoat [n=pan@ovid.sensoryresearch.net] has joined #hplusroadmap | 19:28 | |
| nsh | request: if anyone ever meets Eliezer Yudkowsky give him a sharp kick in the fucking balls and say "don't pretend you didn't have this coming, you pseudointellectual fuck" | 19:44 |
| nsh | wait, that's where you're going, isn't it?! | 19:46 |
| ybit | i'm almost certain kanzure won't do that nsh :P | 21:27 |
Generated by irclog2html.py 2.15.0.dev0 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!