| --- Day changed Thu Jul 24 2008 | ||
| ybit | oh yeah, back | 00:17 |
|---|---|---|
| * ybit makes a note not to annoy others with his status on IRC | 00:17 | |
| kanzure | hm? | 00:20 |
| ybit | it´s annoying for others and for myself | 00:36 |
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| kanzure | http://heybryan.org/egan.html quantification of the problem | 03:03 |
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| kanzure | http://p2pfoundation.net/Category:Design | 09:04 |
| kanzure | from my inbox today, someone from that site contacted me | 09:04 |
| kanzure | yep, I'm impressed | 09:20 |
| ybit | http://www.lumenlab.com/ | 12:36 |
| ybit | link courtesy of Phreedom | 12:36 |
| ybit | http://www.lumenlab.com/robotics/ - all the parts only cost around $500 | 12:37 |
| fenn | hype | 13:11 |
| ybit | ah, less than $2000 | 13:16 |
| ybit | fenn: why do you say that? | 13:16 |
| fenn | more importantly, it's made up of rods like a printer | 13:16 |
| fenn | try machining some aluminum with a printer carriage and see what happens | 13:17 |
| fenn | it might work on wood, but slowly | 13:18 |
| fenn | also i dont see any electronics to run the servos | 13:21 |
| fenn | its like they just threw a bunch of stuff in a box without seeing if it would actually work | 13:22 |
| fenn | hmm. diaspora is starting to read like a lecture on 5-dimensional physics | 17:42 |
| kanzure | I first encountered it when I was 12 | 17:45 |
| kanzure | didn't like it much | 17:45 |
| kanzure | while the idea is "of course" and nice that he tried, eh | 17:45 |
| fenn | "if there are known effects, doesn't this render the whole damn map pointless? The map is not the territory, but if you "know" the territory, then why the hell have the map?" | 17:50 |
| fenn | they didnt know the results of all possible combinations (points on the map) | 17:50 |
| fenn | i got the impression that some parts of the map were more thoroughly sampled than others | 17:51 |
| kanzure | so perhaps it's to the point where it's "roughly mapped" | 17:53 |
| kanzure | I'm pretty sure that we somewhat have Egan's map with Google Mouse, but there needs to be some way to record something about the brains that the SNP data produces :-) | 17:53 |
| kanzure | if this ends up being just some natural language the brain supposedly inputs into the system, so be it :-( (mostly useless) | 17:53 |
| fenn | honestly the google mouse looks like a bunch of colored squiggles to me | 17:54 |
| kanzure | the idea or implementation | 17:54 |
| kanzure | basically Google Mouse can also be the ABA Brain Explorer (my implementation) so it's 3D and showing cortices and so on | 17:54 |
| kanzure | does your comment still apply in that context ? | 17:54 |
| fenn | it doesn't show the relationship between physical structure and behavior/functionality | 17:55 |
| kanzure | correct | 17:56 |
| fenn | then what does it show? | 17:56 |
| kanzure | it was going to be a 'scaffold' where I could somehow constrain my research | 17:56 |
| kanzure | i.e., tag some possible avenues for research | 17:56 |
| kanzure | if there's a statistical correlation between some genes and some perceived functionality, then that would be relevant to search for, no? | 17:56 |
| fenn | right | 17:56 |
| kanzure | but there's still no way to do this functionality mapping | 17:57 |
| kanzure | argh | 17:57 |
| kanzure | worst case scenario it's just random measurements from lab testing | 17:57 |
| fenn | but a realtionship between some gene and functionality doesn't have any bearing on your map (haha) | 17:57 |
| kanzure | "ok, does the brain respond to theta waves ... does it respond to amphetamine ... make the following measurements ..." | 17:57 |
| kanzure | that's true | 17:57 |
| kanzure | epistasis and such | 17:57 |
| kanzure | I was hoping that could be sorted out by the massive statistical aspect of the thing ... if you have a few SNP datasets and measurements from each of the brains, that could get useful, no? | 17:58 |
| * kanzure doesn't know if 1k is enough to sort out that many damn variables | 17:58 | |
| kanzure | and /me admits how nasty a hack this is | 17:58 |
| kanzure | I was going to email Greg and yell at him about it | 17:59 |
| kanzure | but I don't know if he'll have any ideas | 17:59 |
| fenn | you could correlate genotype with phenotype (the google map) and use that to infer a relationship between gene and physical shape, which would link to gene/function studies (i think i need to rephrase this sentence) | 17:59 |
| kanzure | well I thought the issue with that would be multiply confluencing genes | 17:59 |
| kanzure | polymerase without helicase just isn't the same | 17:59 |
| fenn | but it's not n! combinations either | 18:00 |
| kanzure | heh | 18:00 |
| kanzure | oh, right | 18:00 |
| kanzure | the lab above me was doing giant correlational studies with yeast | 18:00 |
| kanzure | the same could be done for brain circuits | 18:00 |
| kanzure | i.e., Marcotte was isolating the genetic regulatory networks | 18:00 |
| kanzure | http://reactome.org/ | 18:00 |
| kanzure | so he had the entire yeast knockout library frozen in a few fridges upstairs | 18:01 |
| kanzure | so how does one describe phenotype anyway? | 18:02 |
| fenn | that's some interesting javascript | 18:02 |
| kanzure | I remember in my first biology class ever, the first week, I was assigned the task of writing down descriptions of little critters in jars | 18:02 |
| kanzure | probably filled with formaldehyde or something | 18:02 |
| kanzure | formalin, whatever | 18:02 |
| kanzure | anyway, being the way that I am, | 18:02 |
| kanzure | I neglected to write down "arm, leg" and such because I just thought that it wasn't all that scientific approach to phenotypic descriptions | 18:02 |
| kanzure | so I went hardcore with "projection from the 5th millimeter of the upper extremity" | 18:03 |
| kanzure | of course I failed miserably, but the idea applies here | 18:03 |
| fenn | well, insects dont really have arms | 18:03 |
| kanzure | :) | 18:04 |
| kanzure | exactly | 18:04 |
| fenn | just a bunch of differently shaped plates | 18:04 |
| kanzure | these things aren't really 'legs' even though they have correlated functions | 18:04 |
| fenn | arm or leg is really a functional description | 18:04 |
| kanzure | which seems to be more .. ethology, perhaps | 18:04 |
| fenn | reactome.org is really impressive | 18:06 |
| kanzure | I agree. | 18:06 |
| kanzure | haven't gotten around to digesting the whole thing yet | 18:07 |
| fenn | heh there's a lot of nodes to digest | 18:07 |
| kanzure | well, I refer to the framework as well | 18:09 |
| kanzure | how they are doing this | 18:09 |
| kanzure | so the phenotypic description of wtf the brain is doing | 18:11 |
| kanzure | let's magically assume we have a way to describe the function of the brain | 18:11 |
| kanzure | could this information be routed back into the map in a constructive way ? | 18:11 |
| fenn | yes, with physical "knockout" studies (lesions) | 18:13 |
| fenn | but i dont see a whole lot of value in that | 18:13 |
| kanzure | wasn't this what enki-2 was saying .. "since we can't say it, let's just specify everything that isn't right, and do it in prolog" | 18:14 |
| kanzure | there were some objections to that method in a logic/computational context for something else | 18:14 |
| kanzure | psychometrics are out of the question I think | 18:14 |
| fenn | aroo? i mean burn some cells at a specific location and see what the functional effect is | 18:14 |
| kanzure | or molecular lesions btw | 18:14 |
| fenn | hrm. molecular things are so much easier to directly correlate to genes | 18:15 |
| fenn | psychometrics is the same as your magical functional description | 18:16 |
| kanzure | psychometrics uses that layer of grammar and natural language though | 18:16 |
| kanzure | it fits, yes, but | 18:16 |
| fenn | not entirely.. there's a lot of abstractions, like what does IQ represent | 18:17 |
| fenn | "it represents G, the general intelligence factor!" | 18:17 |
| fenn | whoopee | 18:17 |
| kanzure | variables dependent on the organism's function during a very particular context for "IQ testing" | 18:17 |
| fenn | but they're aiming for a context independent measurement | 18:18 |
| kanzure | let's not use IQ, that has a lot of baggage | 18:19 |
| kanzure | can you make the point with another variable/abstraction? | 18:19 |
| fenn | ok, i dont know any other psychometric tests | 18:19 |
| kanzure | Stroop attentional task | 18:19 |
| kanzure | it's where you read the color of a word that represents another color | 18:19 |
| kanzure | "red" but it's in blue | 18:19 |
| fenn | ok | 18:19 |
| kanzure | and the measurement is something like hit to miss ratio | 18:19 |
| fenn | seems like its measuring some kind of cross talk | 18:19 |
| fenn | is that a function? | 18:20 |
| kanzure | hm? | 18:20 |
| kanzure | is what a function, crosstalk? | 18:20 |
| fenn | yeah | 18:20 |
| kanzure | sure, why not | 18:20 |
| kanzure | that would be good to have on a map, if it exists | 18:20 |
| kanzure | dunno if the stroop test is measuring it ... that would be better suited for fMRI or something | 18:20 |
| fenn | semantic cross talk, not necessarily electrical | 18:21 |
| kanzure | definitely not necessarily electrical | 18:21 |
| kanzure | maybe my framing is off | 18:22 |
| kanzure | I've been considering some other possible scenarios | 18:22 |
| kanzure | for instance, just mapping *people* on to the map | 18:22 |
| kanzure | and saying "go look at kanzure for this" | 18:22 |
| kanzure | pointers/refs | 18:22 |
| fenn | sure, each person is a combination of many functions in varying degrees | 18:22 |
| kanzure | doesn't really help do anything though ... | 18:22 |
| fenn | you could decompose them into basis functions with enough samples | 18:23 |
| kanzure | yeah, how many? | 18:23 |
| fenn | a lot | 18:23 |
| kanzure | "a lot" is a *shit* load, probably | 18:23 |
| kanzure | consider the trillions of synapses | 18:23 |
| kanzure | and 20,000 brain-related genes | 18:23 |
| fenn | well, you dont have to get a 100% complete map | 18:23 |
| fenn | its like a hypercube, most of the volume is in the corners | 18:24 |
| kanzure | okay, so let's talk about nematodes instead | 18:24 |
| kanzure | 100 neurons, right? | 18:24 |
| fenn | but as long as you map the central region you have a good idea what a hypercube looks like | 18:24 |
| fenn | what functionality does a nematode brain provide? | 18:24 |
| kanzure | someone in the torrent-vid that nsh hated yesterday, has been layering neurons on top of silicon circuit paths and testing the neurons individual with different wirings and connections .. using the surface as a scaffold, then listening to their conversations | 18:25 |
| kanzure | dunno ... surely it's doing something | 18:25 |
| fenn | that's a good idea | 18:25 |
| fenn | better than poking at them with syringes :P | 18:25 |
| kanzure | different silicon patterns for different networks | 18:25 |
| kanzure | yeah, realy | 18:25 |
| kanzure | *really | 18:25 |
| fenn | its sorts like an inverse nanobot | 18:26 |
| fenn | instead of nanobots swarming into the rigid structure of the brain, you have brain cells swarm into the rigid structure of a microchip | 18:26 |
| kanzure | layered the paths with some sort of food for the neurons to grow on | 18:27 |
| kanzure | perhaps it was hormone or something | 18:27 |
| kanzure | out of all of the things that you can say about the brain, what's the most general? | 18:28 |
| kanzure | (yet still correct/sayable) | 18:28 |
| fenn | um, pass | 18:28 |
| kanzure | heh | 18:28 |
| kanzure | I'm still on the phenotype question | 18:28 |
| kanzure | clearly the brain is passing information about itself to others | 18:28 |
| kanzure | thus we have our 'memes' hypothesis | 18:29 |
| kanzure | ideas/thoughts and the like. | 18:29 |
| fenn | that has nothing to do with nematodes | 18:29 |
| kanzure | but it's by no means rigid | 18:29 |
| kanzure | hrm | 18:29 |
| fenn | i was thinking something like 'responds to its environment' or 'responds to stimulus' | 18:29 |
| fenn | but then i got lost in semantics | 18:29 |
| kanzure | any observation that we record of its response is psychometric testing, no? | 18:30 |
| kanzure | like "it wiggles (only) left" | 18:30 |
| kanzure | and then what's "wiggle" ? | 18:31 |
| kanzure | hurray for semantics | 18:31 |
| fenn | brain is much faster than most single-cell control mechanisms, i think that's why it evolved | 18:32 |
| fenn | "something's biting my tail, get it off me!" | 18:32 |
| fenn | or for controlling circulatory system pumps where chemical diffusion isn't fast enough | 18:33 |
| fenn | actually they do use sodium/potassium diffusion but it's phase locked | 18:34 |
| kanzure | ultimately we do have the instruments to measure variables about brains, particularly look at patch clamp or the neurons-on-a-chip stuff, | 18:35 |
| kanzure | btu we can't ask 20,000 users to slice open their heads, build these instruments, and make the measurements | 18:35 |
| fenn | bah i hate google | 18:37 |
| kanzure | neurofeedback is interesting because it allows the user to isolate an internal variable ... many people claim to be able to control their pulse quite easily with the proper equipment, and then some training and soon enough they don't have to use the equipment any more. | 18:37 |
| fenn | sure why not | 18:37 |
| kanzure | I was thinking of the natural language / psychology problem here with semantis | 18:38 |
| kanzure | and I figure that it's like trying to draw somethng through a damn pin hole | 18:38 |
| fenn | ah so you have an objective quantity to measure with an instrument | 18:38 |
| kanzure | but having that neurofeedback component isolates an internal variable and can bring it to the forefront of attention | 18:38 |
| kanzure | yes | 18:38 |
| fenn | so hopefully some people will be able to do this and others won't, and that means something? | 18:39 |
| kanzure | or the range of numbers they can generate perhaps? | 18:39 |
| kanzure | would that be useful? | 18:39 |
| * kanzure is afraid of the possibility of a lack of interesting measurements | 18:39 | |
| fenn | dunno, maybe if the isolated variable has some effect on magical semantic 'functionality' | 18:40 |
| kanzure | s/generate/control/ | 18:40 |
| fenn | what are you going for exactly? | 18:40 |
| fenn | end-goal | 18:40 |
| kanzure | extraction of phenotype-variables | 18:40 |
| kanzure | and their values | 18:40 |
| fenn | why? | 18:40 |
| kanzure | to map on top of Google Mouse/earth | 18:40 |
| fenn | why? | 18:40 |
| fenn | :) | 18:41 |
| kanzure | mostly to constrain my own research to figure out what areas to attack attention at | 18:41 |
| kanzure | that was what it originally started out as | 18:41 |
| kanzure | I have all of this information, but it's pretty useless | 18:41 |
| fenn | say you finally invented the magical attention pill, what would you do with it? | 18:41 |
| kanzure | use it | 18:42 |
| kanzure | it's not a pill btw, it's more like a health monitoring system | 18:42 |
| kanzure | think of galaga except on steroids to destroy destractions automatically so you can continue working uninterrupted :-) | 18:42 |
| fenn | how do you determine what's a distraction? | 18:42 |
| kanzure | I don't even know what a 'distraction' is in terms of the brain or signals/noise | 18:43 |
| kanzure | whatever it is, it stops me from doing really awesome work | 18:43 |
| fenn | the way i see it, when you're doing research, each answer opens up ten more questions.. which of those questions are distractions and which are important? | 18:43 |
| kanzure | s/work/stuff/ | 18:43 |
| kanzure | don't know if that's the right way to put it | 18:44 |
| kanzure | the way that distractions work for me are quite weird | 18:44 |
| kanzure | it's not a matter of useless research -- that's bound to happen anyway methinks unless you get more keen at selection -- it's like running through a program and not following it through to completion | 18:45 |
| kanzure | blah, you have me quite off track now | 18:47 |
| fenn | its hard to finish projects when you dont have a specific end state | 18:48 |
| kanzure | btw, a good solution to the Mouse problem is to just leave the instrumentation question open | 18:48 |
| kanzure | sure | 18:48 |
| kanzure | *open and extendable by other programmers | 18:48 |
| kanzure | actually the idea wasn't so much 'attention' as it was whatever I mentioned on humancortex.html | 18:53 |
| kanzure | I think the way I worded it was 'system administrator's guide to the brain" or not so much guide as framework for dealing with it | 18:53 |
| kanzure | distraction-elimination would be one technique to employ, should it ever end up with an actual technique | 18:53 |
| kanzure | so in a sense it could be said that the Mouse/map thing could be used as a way to figure out what possible 'internal variables from that pinhole to draw through' and methods of dealing with them are possible | 18:54 |
| kanzure | it's easy to say in words, but not the implementation methinks | 18:54 |
| kanzure | EEG/MRI/neurofeedback on the sysadmin side of things | 18:54 |
| kanzure | but again, finding easy variables to isolate from users? ehh ... | 18:55 |
| kanzure | sounds kinda useless | 19:03 |
| kanzure | but it's somewhat based off of the distinction between nearterm (me) versus longterm (something less fucked in the long run than I am) http://heybryan.org/recursion.html | 19:04 |
| kanzure | and buildingbrains.html | 19:04 |
| * kanzure goes to eat | 19:04 | |
| kanzure | Heh. | 19:20 |
| kanzure | hearing terrible tales of compiler errors from across the tables | 19:20 |
| kanzure | awesome. | 19:20 |
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| ybit | sounds like fun | 19:27 |
| ybit | referring to geek speak | 19:27 |
| kanzure | fenn: http://p2pfoundation.net/Category:Design | 19:57 |
| kanzure | hm | 20:09 |
| kanzure | phase-sensitive optical low coherence reflectometery? http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&ct=res&cd=12&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.opticsexpress.org%2Fviewmedia.cfm%3Furi%3Doe-12-11-2377%26seq%3D0&ei=QBiJSJOLDqjeigGDj7zSDA&usg=AFQjCNFizM-n14E1yRHQHVfg6fT5cJb4Xg&sig2=WeSUyJPuAdjmux-KNaTXEA | 20:09 |
| kanzure | aka backscattered light upon action potentials | 20:09 |
| kanzure | this is another one picked up from whatever the hell it is that Superkuh is up to | 20:09 |
| kanzure | R. U. Maheswari, H. Takaoka, H. Kadono, R. Homma, and M. Tanifuji, “Novel functional imaging technique | 20:10 |
| kanzure | from brain surface with optical coherence tomography enabling visualization of depth resolved functional | 20:10 |
| kanzure | structure in vivo,” J. Neuroscience Methods 124, 83-92 (2003). | 20:10 |
| kanzure | Now doesn't that sound promising? | 20:10 |
| kanzure | T. Akkin, “Biomedical applications of a fiber based low-coherence interferometer for quantitative differential phase measurements,” Dissertation: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin, (2003). | 20:11 |
| kanzure | Rapid mechanical changes were reported in the garfish olfactory nerve using a stylus recording device fastened to a piezoceramic bender [6,7]. The recorded swelling signal and | 20:13 |
| kanzure | aha, that's why he's looking for the Tasaki paper | 20:13 |
| kanzure | finding this one might be interesting: K. Iwasa, and I. Tasaki, “Mechanical changes in squid giant axons associated with production of action potentials,” Biochem. Biophysic. Res. Comm. 95, 1328-1331 (1980). | 20:13 |
| fenn | reminds me of flanagan's neurophone | 20:17 |
| kanzure | interesting idea | 20:22 |
| kanzure | does it .. work? | 20:22 |
| * kanzure was reading http://www.neurophone.com/tech.htm | 20:22 | |
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| fenn | hmm they changed their story.. used to be claiming that you could send information down ordinary tactile-sense nerves and it would be decoded as audio by the brain | 21:23 |
| fenn | he started out using high voltage pads you stuck to your thigh or palm or whatever | 21:24 |
| fenn | then they figured out that the high voltage would cause the skin to deform like a piezo actuator, so they tried it with piezo's and got the same result | 21:25 |
| fenn | the claim used to be that even nerve-deaf people could hear with it | 21:25 |
| kanzure | odd :) | 21:52 |
| ybit | next year, aarpa can do my taxes | 22:25 |
| ybit | ick | 22:25 |
| ybit | that´s been on the to-do list for awhile now :P | 22:25 |
| ybit | have any of you read neverness? | 22:26 |
| ybit | that´s on the todo list | 22:26 |
| ybit | fenn, i´m guessing since that it´s on your sever you have read the book? | 22:26 |
| ybit | aarp*.. | 22:27 |
| kanzure | ybit: I've read it. | 22:33 |
| kanzure | I'm the one recommending it to all of you :) | 22:33 |
| fenn | ybit: just finished it | 22:47 |
| fenn | uh, i think he covered all the bases :) | 22:47 |
| kanzure | who? | 22:48 |
| fenn | egan | 22:48 |
| kanzure | neverness is zindell | 22:48 |
| fenn | ah whoops a bit of selective blindness on my part, sorry | 22:48 |
| kanzure | but still, that's what I was wondering | 22:48 |
| kanzure | you might have meant "bryan covered the bases by saying he's the one recommending it" | 22:49 |
| fenn | ok, i just finished diaspora | 22:49 |
| fenn | shooting people with introdus would make a great "non-violent" video game | 22:51 |
| kanzure | (2008-07-24 22:11:26) kanzure: Hey. | 23:10 |
| kanzure | (2008-07-24 22:11:32) Carissa: hello | 23:10 |
| kanzure | (2008-07-24 22:11:41) Carissa: it works? | 23:10 |
| kanzure | (2008-07-24 22:12:23) Carissa: it took me forever to figure out why this thing wouldn't work | 23:10 |
| kanzure | (2008-07-24 22:12:46) Carissa: oh? were not on pidgin are we???????????/// | 23:10 |
| kanzure | (2008-07-24 22:12:51) Carissa has left the conversation. | 23:11 |
| kanzure | (2008-07-24 22:14:11) kanzure: I'm on pidgin, but you might not be. | 23:11 |
| kanzure | (2008-07-24 22:14:28) Carissa: it doesn't say i am | 23:11 |
| kanzure | (2008-07-24 22:14:36) kanzure: Are you in gmail? | 23:11 |
| kanzure | (2008-07-24 22:14:49) Carissa: no i'm on theinternet | 23:11 |
| kanzure | (2008-07-24 22:14:58) kanzure: You're in gmail. | 23:11 |
| kanzure | (2008-07-24 22:15:01) Carissa: no | 23:11 |
| kanzure | How cute. | 23:11 |
| fenn | uh, check your clock? | 23:15 |
| fenn | "Aromantic asexual. And atheist! Triple A rating!" | 23:17 |
| kanzure | wtf | 23:17 |
| kanzure | my clock is wrong? | 23:18 |
| kanzure | also, the p2pfoundation guy did Technocalyps, nsh | 23:18 |
| kanzure | what an odd coincidence | 23:18 |
| fenn | either that, or an insidious conspiracy | 23:19 |
| kanzure | insidious conspiracy for 200 please | 23:19 |
| fenn | your answer: "The richest collection of free modes available anywhere in the net and on the planet." | 23:21 |
| fenn | what was the question? | 23:21 |
| kanzure | where arez teh porns? | 23:24 |
| fenn | http://thehomebased.com/?p=28 | 23:26 |
| fenn | i still can't figure out the 12th pic | 23:27 |
| kanzure | what an oddly specific answer :-) | 23:28 |
| kanzure | conspiracy! | 23:28 |
| ybit | kanzure: haha, i´m assuming the above was an excerpt from you and your little sis ^^ | 23:41 |
| ybit | argh, i am indeed getting tired, hopefully i´ll get my provigil soon | 23:42 |
| kanzure | yes, Carissa is she | 23:42 |
| ybit | my mum just mentioning going to dubai, india for a vacation o_O | 23:42 |
| ybit | i wouldn´t mind at all, but when she realizes that ´dubail´ is india, she´ll change her mind quickly | 23:43 |
| kanzure | my mom's evil twin (or is that the other way around) was living in India a few years after living in Taiwan, China, Spain, England, all sorts of assbackwards places. | 23:43 |
| ybit | that´s cool, but spain and england aren´t assbackwards :) | 23:43 |
| kanzure | on the contrary | 23:43 |
| kanzure | ever take a dump in England? | 23:44 |
| kanzure | in a toilet | 23:44 |
| ybit | lol | 23:44 |
| ybit | i have not | 23:44 |
| kanzure | exactly | 23:44 |
| ybit | lol | 23:44 |
| ybit | but i know people who have (besides you) :) | 23:44 |
| kanzure | I haven't. | 23:44 |
| ybit | they don´t have backwards asses | 23:44 |
| ybit | heh | 23:45 |
| kanzure | backwards arses | 23:45 |
| kanzure | fine | 23:45 |
| ybit | getting english on me are you? | 23:45 |
| kanzure | i bloody well ought to | 23:45 |
| ybit | i´m tasked with choosing a vacation resort | 23:45 |
| kanzure | Austin, Texas. | 23:45 |
| kanzure | or Bloomington, Indiana and you can bug fenn | 23:46 |
| * ybit looks for resorts in spain | 23:46 | |
| ybit | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Seaside_resorts | 23:47 |
| ybit | bah | 23:48 |
| ybit | spain doesn´t have any nice resorts | 23:48 |
| kanzure | I think I'll give up on attention | 23:49 |
| kanzure | bullshit idea anyway | 23:49 |
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