| --- Day changed Thu Aug 28 2008 | ||
| kanzure | not when you're around | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| percent | Never, ever doubt the power of smart people doing dumb things. | 00:00 |
| kanzure | hm | 00:00 |
| kanzure | maybe we could use an extra uberhacker on board or something | 00:00 |
| kanzure | a russian guy | 00:00 |
| kanzure | anybody know a russian? | 00:00 |
| willPow3r_ | i speak it | 00:01 |
| kanzure | accent? | 00:01 |
| willPow3r_ | when requested | 00:01 |
| kanzure | vodka? | 00:01 |
| * kanzure sleeps | 00:02 | |
| willPow3r_ | considering the average russian citizen ingests 10 gallons of vodka per year, that goes without saying | 00:02 |
| percent | I speak jive. | 00:05 |
| percent | And hick. | 00:05 |
| percent | thought it were finna to be another storm but it done come up a frog strangler | 00:06 |
| percent | see? | 00:06 |
| willPow3r_ | impressive. can you juggle too? | 00:09 |
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| percent | not as well as your mom can juggle dicks | 00:57 |
| willPow3r_ | she learned from the best, who happens to be your mom | 01:04 |
| percent | who learned from the best, who happens to be YOUR mom | 01:19 |
| willPow3r_ | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hxx2KcPWWZg | 01:29 |
| willPow3r_ | so dick juggling then appears to be a recursive learning process | 01:38 |
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| kanzure | Hey faceface. | 04:09 |
| faceface | hello kanzure | 04:20 |
| faceface | my xchat died yesterday, so I don't know if you replied to my 'people are obstacles' comment | 04:20 |
| kanzure | I don't think I even saw it. | 04:20 |
| faceface | heheh | 04:21 |
| kanzure | What were we talking about? | 04:21 |
| faceface | I was just saying that people (the people that seem to do nothing but get in the way) need to be negotiated just like any other physical obstacle | 04:21 |
| faceface | kanzure, I just picked up on a comment you made | 04:21 |
| kanzure | "Dear Rock, blocking my path, would you be so kind as to move, and in exchange I have this beautiful daughter." | 04:22 |
| faceface | to create a vacuum you need to go to lengths to get the machinery right... although it is a pain, you need to go to lenghs to achieve your goals in the face of people... silly lazy dumb people | 04:23 |
| faceface | the point is, don't get bitter, mad, angry, etc. just get on with it ;-) | 04:24 |
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| bkero | Somehow I think offering your daughter up has fallen out of vogue. | 04:37 |
| willPow3r_ | only in first-world countries | 04:45 |
| bkero | and second world | 04:55 |
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| percent | faceface: People in your way should be thoroughly annihilated. | 13:38 |
| * kanzure just visited the Texas Petawatt Laser. | 13:40 | |
| jk4930 | oh hi, back from the UT? | 13:41 |
| jk4930 | (that's me, JanK. I changed the nick) | 13:41 |
| kanzure | also, the CAD class is some good fun ... three hour computer lab "come and go as you please but please stay I'd like to think you like me", two hour lecture on stuffs, and then a one hour period in the evening to do personal reverse engineering projects | 13:42 |
| kanzure | plus we get free access to the rapid prototyper | 13:42 |
| kanzure | http://heybryan.org/mediawiki/index.php/Event_format#The_real_code_sucks <-- something is wrong .. | 13:47 |
| kanzure | hm, got it somewhat fixed | 13:50 |
| kanzure | just not outputting the correct output | 13:50 |
| kanzure | which I guess isn't much of a fix | 13:50 |
| kanzure | the problem was with the method of checking array size, apparently perl prefers @array to get the size of the array when doing a numerical comparison | 13:50 |
| nsh | cast as scalar? | 14:06 |
| kanzure | right | 14:06 |
| nsh | what goes wrong if you use the regular way? (is it #@array ? god, it's been too long) | 14:07 |
| kanzure | weird, I'm doing redundant checks though | 14:07 |
| nsh | perl used to often surprise me, but there was always some logic to what it did | 14:07 |
| kanzure | $#array is supposed to do it, and it does when I print "number: ", $#array, | 14:07 |
| nsh | that one | 14:07 |
| nsh | ah | 14:07 |
| kanzure | but it didn't do its job when I was doing an if statement on it | 14:07 |
| nsh | because you used the list form of print | 14:07 |
| kanzure | so just saying if (@remainingevents > 1) works | 14:07 |
| nsh | so it tried to make a list out of $#array | 14:08 |
| kanzure | oh | 14:08 |
| kanzure | not sure | 14:08 |
| nsh | if you did print "number:" . $#array | 14:08 |
| kanzure | the print statement *did* work | 14:08 |
| nsh | it would work, (i'd bet) | 14:08 |
| kanzure | that's not the issue | 14:08 |
| nsh | oh ok | 14:08 |
| kanzure | I'll do a dump in a sec if anybody wants to play around with it | 14:09 |
| kanzure | http://heybryan.org/projects/calendar/ | 14:10 |
| kanzure | don't forget to mkdir calendars | 14:10 |
| * nsh might look later if he remembers | 14:13 | |
| elias` | someone's probably written some fancy way to do something like this to get relevancy to self (but gives better results): given a pool of information sources, get first part of relevancy score based on some method that looks for the content, author, etc. and secondly, items (like papers) that are more referenced by other items get a higher score, based on the existing relevancy metric for the referencing items, authors or such. | 14:13 |
| elias` | hope that makes more sense than I usually seem to make :( | 14:13 |
| kanzure | the word you are looking for is "impact factor" | 14:14 |
| kanzure | and it's an evil, evil thing | 14:14 |
| elias` | why is that? | 14:14 |
| kanzure | people lose jobs because they publish somewhere with an impact factor of such-and-such | 14:15 |
| kanzure | they use it to sort people and ideas ... | 14:15 |
| nsh | well | 14:16 |
| nsh | the measure and how it's used are different things | 14:16 |
| kanzure | course | 14:16 |
| nsh | they're allowed different evil-values | 14:16 |
| kanzure | oh? | 14:16 |
| elias` | I think it would be useful for personal information handling. I find it would just automate part of what I already do | 14:17 |
| nsh | sure, an well-practices MBA can inject evil quotient into anything | 14:17 |
| kanzure | I disagree | 14:17 |
| kanzure | and don't want to talk about why right now, elias` | 14:17 |
| kanzure | statistics is teh evils, just read everything | 14:17 |
| kanzure | http://asarya.com/ | 14:18 |
| kanzure | now, there's some work on decyphering the underlying structure of the web of science unbeknownst to us and perhaps even the practicioners | 14:19 |
| kanzure | i.e., somewhat through semantic filtering and so on | 14:19 |
| kanzure | and then finding the subgraphs and so on | 14:19 |
| kanzure | but this doesn't necessarily correlate with semantic terrain | 14:19 |
| kanzure | argh | 14:19 |
| kanzure | what a mess we're in. | 14:19 |
| * kanzure gets a mop | 14:19 | |
| kanzure | (and it's not a kosher mess, either) | 14:20 |
| elias` | I think I should weigh the incoming information according to the quality of the results. All else being equal, bump the probability of showing queueing/showing info with a high impact factor somewhat. | 14:20 |
| elias` | s/showing// | 14:20 |
| kanzure | oh, yes, I know what you're saying :p | 14:21 |
| kanzure | and have even considered my own such systems before | 14:21 |
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| kanzure | oh | 15:28 |
| kanzure | why am I using a foreach looper | 15:28 |
| kanzure | just check the next element in the array | 15:28 |
| kanzure | and fork linearly when there's no conflict, and by 2 when either the current or the next one could be picked | 15:29 |
| kanzure | it's overall kind of linear, but it might work better than this piece of junk I presently have up | 15:29 |
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| kanzure | http://www.islandone.org/MMSG/aasm/ | 17:03 |
| kanzure | same old same old | 17:03 |
| kanzure | http://www.islandone.org/MMSG/aasm/AASM53.html#536 | 17:11 |
| kanzure | closure in self-replicating systems | 17:12 |
| kanzure | "Consider, for example, the problem of parts closure. Imagine that the entire factory and all of its machines are broken down into their component parts. If the original factory cannot fabricate every one of these items, then parts closure does not exist and the system is not fully self-replicating ." | 17:12 |
| kanzure | Hurray! | 17:12 |
| * kanzure virtually hugs Freitas | 17:12 | |
| fenn | freitas had it figured out | 17:16 |
| fenn | i'd like to see more in detail how they actually calculated closure etc | 17:16 |
| kanzure | 'An approach to the problem of closure in real engineering-systems is to begin with the issue of parts closure by asking the question: can a set of machines produce all of its elements? If the manufacture of each part requires, on average, the addition of >1 new parts to product it, then an infinite number of parts are required in the initial system and complete closure cannot be achieved. On the other hand, if the mean number of new parts per origina | 17:17 |
| * kanzure still finds Freitas to be a mysterious fellow .. | 17:18 | |
| kanzure | 'The minimum size of a self-sufficient "machine economy" remains unknown.' | 17:18 |
| * kanzure thinks this is sounding like computer science => 'computational engineering' or some such. | 17:18 | |
| kanzure | 'Closure engineering In actual practice, the achievement of full closure will be a highly complicated, iterative engineering design process. Every factory system, subsystem, component structure, and input requirement (Miller and Smith, 1979) must be carefully matched against known factory output capabilities. Any gaps in the manufacturing flow must be filled by the introduction of additional machines, whose own construction and operation may create ne | 17:19 |
| kanzure | 'Closure engineering' | 17:19 |
| kanzure | I remember seeing this paper back in the day, but not this particular section | 17:19 |
| kanzure | is it a good sign that others come to the same results as you? | 17:20 |
| kanzure | I guess I can't say I'm not contaminated though .. | 17:20 |
| fenn | i had this idea before i ever started reading about anything | 17:23 |
| kanzure | neat | 17:24 |
| fenn | it comes from actually having to work with limited resources, instead of just an academic "proof of concept" like reprap | 17:24 |
| kanzure | being broke? | 17:24 |
| kanzure | or in the concept space of "on the moon you don't actually have anything yet" | 17:25 |
| fenn | sorta.. i dont expect anyone to spend $20k on a lathe | 17:25 |
| fenn | but also a general lack of manufacturing knowledge in my community and out-groups | 17:25 |
| kanzure | the lack of manufacturing knowledge where I grew up is staggering | 17:26 |
| kanzure | dad = ran a silicon fab as a manager of a few teams, but he doesn't count | 17:26 |
| kanzure | common daily objects taken for granted, no hints as to the troubles some poor guy had to go through drafting the thing up | 17:26 |
| kanzure | btw, I have to admit the 'drafting' / CAD class is actually the funnest so far | 17:26 |
| fenn | i'm not sure silicon fab is even in the same semantic territory | 17:26 |
| kanzure | the si fab funding came from the 60's - 80's, whereas everything else is as old as fart | 17:27 |
| fenn | like i'm dropping balls off the tower of piza over here and they're doing high energy particle physics | 17:27 |
| fenn | what programs are you using in cad class? | 17:28 |
| kanzure | I knew the answer to this question until you asked me | 17:28 |
| kanzure | Solidworks | 17:28 |
| fenn | ah, the working-man's cad :) | 17:29 |
| fenn | that's computer aid drafting, fwiw | 17:29 |
| kanzure | hm? | 17:30 |
| kanzure | oh, the first sentence being wrong | 17:30 |
| kanzure | on the wikipedia page | 17:30 |
| * kanzure realizes he didn't link to it | 17:31 | |
| kanzure | so what's the context? | 17:31 |
| fenn | i just mean there's a difference between drafting and design | 17:31 |
| kanzure | to what extent | 17:31 |
| kanzure | drafting, I know, is making out the schematics and such | 17:31 |
| fenn | well, when drafting you come up with the design in your head and put it down on paper | 17:32 |
| fenn | with design, you have an idea, then throw a bunch of random thoughts on the paper and let it grow into a design | 17:32 |
| kanzure | fun stuff | 17:32 |
| kanzure | that's kind of how I work obviously | 17:32 |
| kanzure | throw a bunch of crap at people and see what sticks/grows | 17:32 |
| fenn | human-aided design :) | 17:32 |
| kanzure | "ok, move just three inches to the left, don't move -- just stay right there" | 17:33 |
| fenn | now, solidworks is a lot more design-ey than cad programs of the past | 17:33 |
| fenn | but i'm an unreasonable man | 17:34 |
| fenn | "" wtf!! | 17:34 |
| fenn | The educational edition is always 1 year behind the industry edition" | 17:34 |
| kanzure | is that .. smart ? | 17:35 |
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| kanzure | http://www.me.utexas.edu/msi/ | 18:29 |
| kanzure | hm, automated design lab | 18:29 |
| kanzure | http://www.me.utexas.edu/~adl/ | 18:29 |
| kanzure | http://www.me.utexas.edu/~campbell/index.htm 'Most recently, we have focused on graph grammars as a universal way to capture the design decisions in engineering.' | 18:31 |
| kanzure | http://www.me.utexas.edu/~campbell/ME392C.htm design optimization and automation | 18:31 |
| kanzure | http://www.me.utexas.edu/~adl/graphsynth/ | 18:33 |
| kanzure | 'With GraphSynth, one can design, implement, test, and automatically invoke grammar rules that transform a graph from an initial seed into | 18:33 |
| kanzure | a creative design.' | 18:33 |
| kanzure | '. Electric circuits, truss structures, and chemical processes are just a few of the artifacts of engineering design that are easily represented by graphs. When viewing the artifact as a graph constructed from an initial simpler graph that describes the problem, one needs to develop a set of rules to capture the valid transformations that can occur. The grammar rules, organized into rule sets are then subject to a generation process. ' | 18:33 |
| kanzure | hm | 18:34 |
| kanzure | http://www.me.utexas.edu/~adl/graphsynth/examples.htm | 18:35 |
| kanzure | interesting. | 18:35 |
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| * kanzure emailed the prof | 18:56 | |
| kanzure | he apparently does some electronic music in a band | 18:56 |
| kanzure | so I dropped a reference to it for extra points | 18:57 |
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| kanzure | fenn: David claims that if I can get (1) room/space and (2) a professor onboard that he can get a fab lab down here for me. | 19:17 |
| kanzure | David as in our Gershenfeld/Minsky fellow. | 19:17 |
| fenn | they should have done that already, meh :P | 19:17 |
| kanzure | well | 19:18 |
| kanzure | I'm wondering if I can strategically make this my "be lazy and have a fab lab" dream thingy | 19:18 |
| fenn | the 'automated design lab' stuff looks very limited in scope, more low-level processes (not that that's bad) | 19:18 |
| fenn | not having to move from your present situation definitely qualifies as 'be lazy' | 19:19 |
| kanzure | mm | 19:19 |
| fenn | austin + fab lab = attractive | 19:20 |
| fenn | i mean, at least it's not boston | 19:20 |
| kanzure | fab lab - payment charges = sexy | 19:20 |
| fenn | what payment charges? | 19:20 |
| kanzure | FabLab is an actual company | 19:20 |
| fenn | huh? | 19:20 |
| kanzure | spun off from Make Magazine | 19:21 |
| kanzure | :-( | 19:21 |
| fenn | wtf!@!!!!!! | 19:21 |
| kanzure | yeah | 19:21 |
| kanzure | yes | 19:21 |
| kanzure | wait | 19:21 |
| fenn | why didnt i know that? | 19:21 |
| fenn | please find a link so i'm not simply relying on your memory | 19:22 |
| kanzure | wikipedia tells me FabLab is from MIT Media Lab | 19:23 |
| kanzure | wait a moment | 19:23 |
| kanzure | uhm, there must be another one out there then. | 19:23 |
| kanzure | the one with the $100/mo membership fees | 19:23 |
| fenn | fablab is gershenfeld's research project "what would people do with a star-trek replicator" experiment | 19:23 |
| kanzure | I could have sworn this other one was called fablab too | 19:23 |
| fenn | you might be thinking of tech shop, or .. the people in #make | 19:23 |
| kanzure | techshop! | 19:23 |
| kanzure | okay | 19:24 |
| kanzure | good | 19:24 |
| fenn | apparently you have to buy your own tool bits to use the stuff at techshop because it's so badly abused | 19:24 |
| kanzure | http://techshop.ws/ | 19:25 |
| fenn | it is a neat idea though | 19:25 |
| kanzure | I think I can go talk to the actlab guys, they'll like this ... and they have the space for it | 19:27 |
| fenn | cool | 19:27 |
| fenn | i'm making an inventory system in yaml and i cant figure out how to do nested structures and still be able to manipulate stuff | 19:29 |
| fenn | so i regressed to flat table-like structure with ID's for everything | 19:29 |
| fenn | :( | 19:29 |
| fenn | it might just be my brain stuck in OO mode | 19:30 |
| kanzure | have you ever seen a non-OOP inventory system | 19:33 |
| kanzure | and if so, please explain | 19:33 |
| kanzure | meanwhile, I'm running out to conquer some robots. | 19:33 |
| fenn | flat table-like is not very OO imho | 19:38 |
| fenn | there are zillions of them | 19:38 |
| fenn | anything SQL or "database" | 19:38 |
| bkero | You can have inventory systems that aren't OOP | 19:39 |
| bkero | You can't have individual incidents though | 19:39 |
| fenn | individual incidents? | 19:39 |
| bkero | Right | 19:39 |
| bkero | Like separate cases for each entry | 19:39 |
| fenn | i dont know what that means | 19:39 |
| bkero | You have tables that relate to each other | 19:40 |
| fenn | like multiple orders of the same product? | 19:40 |
| bkero | But no tables binding them together | 19:40 |
| bkero | so a list of phone numbers | 19:40 |
| bkero | and a list of names | 19:40 |
| bkero | But no foreign key between them | 19:40 |
| fenn | thats a bad example.. phone numbers and names usually have a 1:1 correspondence | 19:41 |
| bkero | Ok | 19:41 |
| bkero | Number of the times I skullfuck you in one table, and amount of times you cry in another. | 19:41 |
| fenn | hmmm | 19:41 |
| bkero | You can use that format for anything you don't need relational mapping for. | 19:42 |
| bkero | Mostly statistical analysis. | 19:42 |
| fenn | ok, sounds stupid | 19:42 |
| fenn | the point is to keep track of everything in minute detail | 19:43 |
| bkero | You do | 19:43 |
| bkero | You just don't have the relatio | 19:43 |
| bkero | n | 19:43 |
| bkero | Which has benefits and drawbacks. | 19:44 |
| fenn | what are the benefits? | 19:44 |
| bkero | More straight forward inner joins and smaller sizes | 19:45 |
| bkero | It's O(n) instead of O(n log n) for inner joins based off foreign keys. | 19:46 |
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| ybit | [22:42] <ybit> YAGO? | 23:49 |
| ybit | [22:42] <ybit> http://wiki.dbpedia.org/Datasets | 23:49 |
| ybit | [22:42] <ybit> "and 75,000 YAGO categories." | 23:49 |
| ybit | [22:42] *** JamesonTai is now known as JamesonTai|zZz. | 23:49 |
| ybit | [22:43] <ybit> surely not "Yet Another Gigabit Operation" | 23:49 |
| ybit | surprisingly #wikipedia is silent on this | 23:49 |
| ybit | no, not concerning jamesontai going to bed | 23:50 |
| ybit | perhaps http://www.mpi-inf.mpg.de/~suchanek/downloads/yago/ ? | 23:51 |
| ybit | that would make sense, yes | 23:51 |
| ybit | okay, thanks ybit | 23:51 |
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