| --- Day changed Tue Sep 23 2008 | ||
| willPow3r__ | heh /me loves 4chan | 00:10 |
|---|---|---|
| willPow3r__ | such a waste of a life | 00:10 |
| * kanzure finally has (yet another) script rolling | 01:57 | |
| willPow3r_ | what the hell is the command for tracert on linux? | 01:57 |
| willPow3r_ | i can't remember | 01:57 |
| kanzure | traceroute or tracert | 01:58 |
| kanzure | also, you don't necessarily have it installed | 01:58 |
| kanzure | something I learned the hard way | 01:58 |
| willPow3r_ | i think nmap can do route tracing | 01:59 |
| kanzure | it turned out I didn't have traceroute in a particularly bad situation | 02:03 |
| kanzure | I was sitting at some conference with a router next to me, trying to get a wireless access point for the group | 02:03 |
| kanzure | I handed off my shell to a linux guy to my right and he did some fancy xterm voodoo | 02:03 |
| kanzure | (emacs?) | 02:03 |
| kanzure | but then frowned when I had no traceroute :( | 02:03 |
| kanzure | arp table investigation :p | 02:03 |
| willPow3r_ | n00b | 02:04 |
| kanzure | it turned out the router just sucked | 02:06 |
| kanzure | what a fun data set. | 02:13 |
| kanzure | quick, what can I do with 'bulk modulus' ? | 02:13 |
| willPow3r_ | kanzure, impress girls? | 02:21 |
| kanzure | do I need to put the 4chan ban on you? | 02:23 |
| willPow3r_ | what? me? 4chan? tits or gtfo newfag | 02:24 |
| willPow3r_ | lol j/k | 02:24 |
| spookact | I gotta admit the Oprah video made me laugh harder than anything else in a very long time, /b/ has been on a roll lately | 02:32 |
| willPow3r_ | ever since that hacking stunt its been a little weird | 02:33 |
| willPow3r_ | well, more weird than usual | 02:33 |
| kanzure | hm, up to 272. so it's successfully changed ip's a few times | 02:34 |
| willPow3r_ | yeah, mine is changing every few mins | 02:34 |
| kanzure | automatically? | 02:36 |
| kanzure | I've been forcing it. | 02:36 |
| willPow3r_ | did you put that in your script? | 02:37 |
| kanzure | yes | 02:37 |
| willPow3r_ | mine is changing every 10 mins automatically. i think thats a conf option though | 02:48 |
| kanzure | Are you fetching the same dataset? | 02:56 |
| willPow3r_ | not fetching right now | 02:57 |
| kanzure | please don't, I'll gladly share the set | 02:57 |
| ybit | oh shit. i deleted my images directory | 02:58 |
| ybit | stupid me | 02:58 |
| kanzure | you're on windows, you didn't actually delete anything | 02:59 |
| ybit | not there now | 02:59 |
| ybit | was on temporary today | 02:59 |
| ybit | only* | 02:59 |
| willPow3r_ | so you're going to do all the d/ling? | 02:59 |
| ybit | pff | 02:59 |
| ybit | f that | 02:59 |
| ybit | i have most of it on cds.. | 02:59 |
| ybit | except my art :| | 02:59 |
| ybit | oh well | 03:00 |
| kanzure | willPow3r_: might as well at this rate | 03:01 |
| ybit | oh, i see | 03:01 |
| ybit | ..what willPow3r_ was referring to | 03:01 |
| kanzure | ATI Wah Chang Reactor Grade Zirconium Oxide, ZrO2. Hm. | 03:02 |
| willPow3r_ | price/ui? | 03:03 |
| kanzure | erm, I'm on to something else now | 03:03 |
| fenn | anyone know the general term for this sort of display? http://www.eyesentials.com/main_images/microoptical-eyeglasses-500x324.jpg | 03:10 |
| fenn | http://www.inition.co.uk/inition/images/product_hmd_microoptical_eg7.jpg | 03:10 |
| fenn | microoptical is a brand name and apparently has discontinued this product line | 03:10 |
| spookact | fenn: don't think there is a general term yet, other than just clumping it with HMDs | 03:26 |
| spookact | I'd be very interested in anything like that with a decent resolution and build quality, everything I've seen so far looks kinda gimmicky | 03:27 |
| kanzure | File change date and time: 2003:05:01 12:24:22 | 03:28 |
| kanzure | hm | 03:28 |
| kanzure | fenn: what do you make of the design repository? | 03:37 |
| kanzure | http://function2.device.mst.edu:8080/view/selection.jsp?system=161 | 03:37 |
| kanzure | it seems to be too many words and not enough being a spec. | 03:37 |
| fenn | session expired and i havent registered | 03:43 |
| kanzure | registration free | 03:43 |
| fenn | why O lord | 03:43 |
| kanzure | no clue | 03:43 |
| kanzure | funding probably | 03:44 |
| fenn | "Any system shall not harm your content or, through inaction, allow your content to come to harm." | 04:05 |
| fenn | 924MB available in /, but sort still says not enough space in /tmp wtf | 04:06 |
| fenn | ack where did this come from: overflow 1.0M 32K 992K 4% /tmp | 04:07 |
| kanzure | how'd you dig that up? | 04:07 |
| kanzure | and why are you using sort? | 04:07 |
| * kanzure just uses df -h and du -h | 04:07 | |
| fenn | i'm trying to figure out what filled up my disk with du -a | sort -n | 04:07 |
| willPow3r | /tmp is in ram iirc | 04:25 |
| willPow3r | so its shared with other temp filesystems | 04:26 |
| kanzure | http://function2.device.mst.edu:8080/view/searchmorph.jsp | 04:30 |
| kanzure | they seem to have an ontological separation of material, energy, and then various verbs for acting upon those different main classes | 04:32 |
| procto | kanzure: you may be interested in http://vdash.org | 04:57 |
| procto | since math underlies, well, everything | 04:57 |
| fenn | design engineering lab looks very much like how i imagined skdb, but there isnt enough data about the interfaces to do anything useful | 04:59 |
| fenn | like, yeah, this bearing is a mechanical guide, but no mention of how big it is, what are the load ratings in various directions, max speed, etc | 05:04 |
| fenn | it looks like they are mostly interested in failure rates of components | 05:05 |
| kanzure | right | 05:07 |
| kanzure | it's an "almost but not quite" | 05:07 |
| kanzure | also, it's rather depressing how it's all put together | 05:07 |
| kanzure | I don't know, it just seems like a global determinism restricting everything rather than code originating at the per-interface level | 05:08 |
| kanzure | does that make sense? | 05:08 |
| fenn | yeah, they're trying to fit everything into a too-limited ontology | 05:08 |
| fenn | i like the fact that they use artifacts that i've disassembled | 05:09 |
| fenn | so its not just some weird industrial thing i have nfc what it's supposed to do | 05:09 |
| kanzure | :) | 05:09 |
| kanzure | I'm wondering what they did for this | 05:10 |
| kanzure | sit around disassembling and documenting everything? | 05:10 |
| fenn | looks like it | 05:10 |
| kanzure | getting paid to do that is pretty fun | 05:10 |
| fenn | good project for undergrads | 05:10 |
| kanzure | yep | 05:10 |
| kanzure | but | 05:10 |
| kanzure | not if they don't know the ontology | 05:10 |
| fenn | hey i do it even without getting paid :\ | 05:10 |
| kanzure | I bet this was only one guy | 05:10 |
| kanzure | how else are they going to maintain their semantic strictness? | 05:10 |
| fenn | well, undergrads can still measure + take photos n stuff | 05:11 |
| fenn | i think the semantic data sucks anyway | 05:11 |
| fenn | hah. everyone knows vise grips are forged not cast - it says so right on there | 05:12 |
| kanzure | huh? | 05:12 |
| fenn | n/m | 05:12 |
| kanzure | if it says that then why does everyone know it / not know it? | 05:12 |
| fenn | bleh @ http://function2.device.mst.edu:8080/view/images/tmp/8874-2.pdf | 05:14 |
| kanzure | how would anybody actually use this except for conceptual bullshit | 05:20 |
| kanzure | I mean, I guess it's not bullshit | 05:20 |
| kanzure | but it's not like anything that really matters in an end design is going to be thought about here | 05:20 |
| kanzure | other than converting forms of energy and such | 05:20 |
| fenn | one would hope they would explain that | 05:22 |
| kanzure | hm? | 05:22 |
| fenn | Kris Wood, The University of Texas at Austin | 05:22 |
| kanzure | explain their choices, you mean? | 05:22 |
| kanzure | hm | 05:22 |
| kanzure | link? | 05:22 |
| fenn | http://function2.device.mst.edu:8080/view/dictionary.jsp | 05:23 |
| fenn | http://fic.engr.utexas.edu/archive/faculty/wood.cfm | 05:24 |
| kanzure | ' | 05:24 |
| kanzure | Kris Wood joined the faculty in 1989 where he is currently a Professor of Mechanical Engineering, Mechanical Systems and Design Division. ...' | 05:24 |
| kanzure | http://www.engr.utexas.edu/amc/ | 05:26 |
| fenn | it's so.. not quantitative it hurts | 05:26 |
| kanzure | right | 05:26 |
| fenn | these are engineers ffs | 05:26 |
| fenn | not art students | 05:26 |
| kanzure | hrm | 05:26 |
| kanzure | it's 'design' | 05:26 |
| kanzure | so it could be anything :( | 05:26 |
| kanzure | wood is in http://www.engr.utexas.edu/amc/ advanced manufacturing center | 05:26 |
| kanzure | oh, and manufacturing and design lab (mad) | 05:27 |
| kanzure | ok, I picked the right one | 05:27 |
| kanzure | http://www.me.utexas.edu/~madlab/ | 05:27 |
| fenn | it must be that "design methodology" they talk about so much | 05:29 |
| fenn | "write half of it down in a computer db and let a human do the rest of the work" | 05:30 |
| kanzure | well, I've successfully infiltrated them, and there's documented proof of this, so. | 05:30 |
| kanzure | guess I'll get to work with the ranting | 05:30 |
| fenn | what do you mean by that? | 05:30 |
| kanzure | job? | 05:30 |
| kanzure | remember? | 05:30 |
| fenn | what's your job? (i know its in the adl but that's it) | 05:31 |
| kanzure | it's mostly unspecified, so that gives me some free range to just "do cool stuff" | 05:31 |
| kanzure | specifically though there's two main projects | 05:31 |
| kanzure | first there's the rating and scoring of automatically generated design results | 05:31 |
| kanzure | i.e. for the search facilitator | 05:32 |
| kanzure | secondly there's "whatever you can make-do with this repository" and so on | 05:32 |
| fenn | "this repository" being what? | 05:32 |
| kanzure | uhm, there's also been some mentions of converting over the code bases into something more 'open' and less C# and java | 05:32 |
| kanzure | "this repository" being the one you've been crying about | 05:32 |
| fenn | function.device.mst.edu? | 05:32 |
| kanzure | yes | 05:33 |
| fenn | i see | 05:33 |
| kanzure | it's a joint project amongst the universities apparently | 05:33 |
| kanzure | kind of off-and-on based off of participation or something, it seems | 05:33 |
| fenn | do you have access to whatever is generating the html interface? | 05:34 |
| fenn | or some way to fork the server | 05:34 |
| kanzure | not that I know of | 05:35 |
| kanzure | the server is probably going to be windows | 05:35 |
| kanzure | these 'automated design lab' thingies are very Windows intensive | 05:35 |
| kanzure | though I've been given permission to preach the good word of linux to the boxen | 05:35 |
| fenn | preach with a ten pound sledge, brother | 05:36 |
| fenn | i mean, preach with a ten gig DVD | 05:36 |
| gene | percent isn't here? | 05:36 |
| kanzure | bah, 30 MB deb net install | 05:36 |
| * fenn wonders which is faster | 05:37 | |
| kanzure | net install has been fast recently | 05:37 |
| kanzure | mostly because there's an on-campus kernel.org node apparently | 05:37 |
| fenn | iu's mirror only allows one download at a time, so i dont use it anymore | 05:38 |
| kanzure | are you on indianna's internal network? | 05:38 |
| percent | So | 05:38 |
| percent | What do you want to do electrospinning for? | 05:39 |
| fenn | no, not anymore | 05:39 |
| percent | I heard some ding dong up in freenode wanted to do some science | 05:39 |
| percent | so if you're here, you'd best represent for nanotech | 05:39 |
| gene | so would a bunch of graphene nanoribbons be stronger than carbon fiber? | 05:39 |
| fenn | no | 05:40 |
| gene | that is the question | 05:40 |
| fenn | oh, carbon fiber, well, "it depends" | 05:40 |
| kanzure | I thought you wanted electrospinning | 05:40 |
| kanzure | mechanical setups and whatnot | 05:40 |
| gene | that is related to the first question | 05:40 |
| gene | I know electrospinning | 05:40 |
| gene | easy enough | 05:41 |
| percent | gene: Almost certainly. | 05:41 |
| percent | Well, it would have a higher elastic stength | 05:41 |
| percent | *Strength | 05:41 |
| gene | sweet | 05:41 |
| percent | But it'd be ribbon-y. | 05:41 |
| gene | yeah it would | 05:41 |
| percent | sir | 05:41 |
| percent | do you f'n represent for nano-TECH | 05:42 |
| gene | I am not sure what you mean | 05:42 |
| kanzure | He probably means tech. | 05:42 |
| gene | So have you ever bombarded nanotubes with electron beams? | 05:43 |
| percent | I'm a black person, so I have to act in a completely ridiculous manner sometimes. | 05:43 |
| percent | Yes. | 05:43 |
| percent | I view them in the SEM all the time | 05:43 |
| percent | they're very bright and visible. | 05:43 |
| kanzure | percent: You have to get slightly more black (or ridiculous) for that to make sense. | 05:43 |
| gene | more intense electron beams | 05:43 |
| percent | We've had them under a TEM before. | 05:43 |
| * fenn suspects mood altering chemicals may be involved | 05:43 | |
| kanzure | You have an image archive? | 05:43 |
| percent | 1000kV. | 05:43 |
| gene | more intense than that | 05:43 |
| percent | No. | 05:43 |
| percent | Patent stuff. | 05:44 |
| gene | dang | 05:44 |
| percent | jeez | 05:44 |
| percent | Well | 05:44 |
| percent | When you grow them, you expose them to plasma | 05:44 |
| percent | How were you intending to generate >1000kV anyway? | 05:44 |
| fenn | by launching them into the sun | 05:44 |
| gene | high voltage power supply | 05:44 |
| kanzure | like superman iv? | 05:44 |
| gene | CRTs do it | 05:44 |
| fenn | gene: 1000kV is a million volts | 05:44 |
| gene | yeah | 05:45 |
| gene | so | 05:45 |
| percent | dude, 1000kV is insane | 05:45 |
| fenn | you'd need some wardenclyffe tower stuff just to keep it from arcing | 05:45 |
| gene | ok maybe not that intense | 05:45 |
| percent | You'll need one bad as hell transformer to do manage | 05:45 |
| percent | and you'd need sulfur hexafluoride as a dielectric gas | 05:46 |
| gene | http://www.nature.com/nchina/2008/080903/full/nchina.2008.208.html | 05:46 |
| gene | I want to do this | 05:46 |
| gene | on a massive scale | 05:46 |
| percent | also remember that SF6 is fuckin' bling | 05:47 |
| percent | like | 05:47 |
| percent | 900usd for a very small bottle | 05:47 |
| fenn | could you mirror that page somewhere so we can read it? | 05:47 |
| kanzure | yay for nature still blocking me | 05:47 |
| percent | Doesn't block me. | 05:47 |
| percent | Oh, wait, I'm a researcher. | 05:47 |
| kanzure | percent: You didn't steal their entire database. | 05:47 |
| percent | did you | 05:47 |
| gene | well then might use an oil dielectric | 05:47 |
| percent | and where is it hosted | 05:47 |
| kanzure | 40 GB. | 05:47 |
| percent | you host everything ever | 05:48 |
| kanzure | Hosted in a very, very safe spot. | 05:48 |
| gene | 200 kv | 05:48 |
| kanzure | you'll never find me gold | 05:48 |
| kanzure | unless you follow this treasure map | 05:48 |
| percent | kanzure: I really want to build your homebrew STM | 05:48 |
| percent | Have you tested it? | 05:48 |
| kanzure | percent: You've seen the schematics right? | 05:48 |
| kanzure | No, not at all. | 05:48 |
| gene | 10^6 e nm^-2 s-1 | 05:48 |
| kanzure | http://heybryan.org/instrumentation/instru.html | 05:48 |
| percent | I've fallen in love with STM as an analytical technique | 05:48 |
| percent | that shit is bad as fuck | 05:48 |
| percent | fuckin works in like liquids n shit | 05:49 |
| kanzure | Hm. | 05:49 |
| gene | how does STM work in liquids? | 05:49 |
| kanzure | The ones that I know about use headphone piezos and little screws for positioning | 05:49 |
| kanzure | cut the tip with a sharper wire etc. | 05:49 |
| percent | If I was a deity, and I really wanted to screw with the universe, I'd change tunneling current by like | 05:49 |
| percent | one angstrom's distance | 05:49 |
| * kanzure puts it on his todo list | 05:49 | |
| gene | http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/cgi-bin/fulltext/120841396/PDFSTART | 05:49 |
| gene | heh | 05:50 |
| gene | set tunneling current to like nothing | 05:50 |
| kanzure | PMMA nanofibers? | 05:50 |
| kanzure | hrm | 05:50 |
| percent | Tunneling is pretty much the most interesting aspect of nanotech. | 05:50 |
| fenn | i thought it was the guaranteed uniformity of atoms | 05:51 |
| percent | no it's tunneling | 05:51 |
| fenn | unless you're talking about that FALSE NANOTECH | 05:51 |
| percent | you are wrong and a bad scientist | 05:51 |
| fenn | liar! | 05:51 |
| gene | what Drexler? | 05:51 |
| fenn | scaring our children! | 05:51 |
| kanzure | http://heybryan.org/~bbishop/docs/nano/Turning_PMMA_nanofibers_into_graphene_nanoribbons_by_in_situ_electron_beam_irradiation.pdf | 05:51 |
| percent | Drexler is my homie. | 05:52 |
| gene | heh | 05:52 |
| kanzure | Sir, I've met Drexler, and he most certainly is *not* your homie. | 05:52 |
| percent | oh yes he is | 05:52 |
| gene | I thought Smalley would be | 05:52 |
| kanzure | bitch, take that back | 05:52 |
| percent | drexler understands that sometimes i gotta bust | 05:52 |
| percent | and | 05:52 |
| kanzure | Smalley's dead, what good is he? | 05:52 |
| gene | yeah | 05:53 |
| percent | sometimes he gotta bust too cus it gets serious in da streetz of nanotekkk | 05:53 |
| gene | though my chemistry teach met him and said he was bitch | 05:53 |
| percent | cuz when i bust he pick up my shells and i pick up his | 05:53 |
| gene | heh | 05:54 |
| gene | how do you electrospin nanotubes? | 05:55 |
| percent | I just installed Gentoo Hardened, should I put /boot on another partition...specifically, /mnt/cdrom? | 05:56 |
| percent | I mean, that's paranoia right there | 05:56 |
| kanzure | Nah, they can still find it I would think. | 05:56 |
| -!- Nofaris_ is now known as Nofaris | 05:56 | |
| fenn | use a floppy and flip the little square thingy over | 05:56 |
| gene | use a 4096 bit encryption key | 05:56 |
| percent | Oh, they can find it | 05:57 |
| percent | that's not what i'm worried about | 05:57 |
| percent | They just can't fuck with it. | 05:57 |
| fenn | but what if they hack into your bios | 05:57 |
| percent | What are they gonna do, eject my CD drive? | 05:57 |
| gene | feds won't be able to crack it within the lifetime of the universe | 05:57 |
| fenn | no gene, that's where you're wrong | 05:57 |
| percent | I'm worried more about the company I keep. | 05:57 |
| percent | If you lay with hackers, you'll get up with rootkits. | 05:58 |
| percent | And fleas, sometimes. | 05:58 |
| fenn | yeah, freenode... *shudder* | 05:58 |
| kanzure | ? | 05:58 |
| kanzure | percent: You slooping around at defcon or something? | 05:58 |
| kanzure | s/oo/ee/ | 05:59 |
| percent | Maybe. | 05:59 |
| gene | Kanzure rootkits suck | 05:59 |
| kanzure | that place got as much action as, well. | 05:59 |
| percent | kanzure gave me herpes :-( | 05:59 |
| percent | heh | 05:59 |
| kanzure | gene: Yes, I'm well aware of this sucking. | 05:59 |
| * kanzure recalls his "leet hax0r" days. | 05:59 | |
| percent | I was right next to a hotel room where someone was definitely getting laid. | 05:59 |
| percent | At Defcon. | 05:59 |
| gene | NOT HERPES | 05:59 |
| percent | HERPES | 05:59 |
| percent | AKA THE MOST AMAZING VIRAL FAMILY EVER | 05:59 |
| gene | at defcon, impossible! | 06:00 |
| percent | THAT SHIT IS FUCKING INTENSE | 06:00 |
| percent | IT CAN FUCKING INFECT YOUR BRAIN, YOUR EYES, EVERY GODDAMN CELL IN YOUR BODY | 06:00 |
| percent | IT IS THUSLY LEET | 06:00 |
| gene | SHIT | 06:00 |
| fenn | true, but it cannot withstand the power of the corn | 06:01 |
| kanzure | I feel like I've missed some terribly awesome xkcd or something. | 06:01 |
| gene | no | 06:01 |
| percent | Not too my knowledge. | 06:02 |
| percent | herpesviridae is without a doubt, the coolest group of viruses | 06:02 |
| percent | it's got like subviral satellites and gene silencing | 06:02 |
| gene | what, and not ebola? | 06:02 |
| percent | it is an arsenal of viral tricks | 06:02 |
| percent | I more admire its versatility. | 06:02 |
| gene | it has 3 proteins | 06:02 |
| * kanzure fetches laundry | 06:02 | |
| percent | Really? | 06:02 |
| gene | yeah | 06:02 |
| percent | How many kb is its code? | 06:03 |
| gene | 3 proteins | 06:03 |
| gene | maybe not even a kb | 06:03 |
| percent | That can't be true | 06:04 |
| gene | 18,891 nucleotides | 06:04 |
| percent | wow | 06:04 |
| gene | so about 20 kb | 06:04 |
| * percent switches to Engrish | 06:04 | |
| percent | BAD VIRUS, TOO SMALL | 06:04 |
| gene | ok I was wrong, 9 proteins | 06:05 |
| percent | 288 amino acids. | 06:05 |
| percent | Still, though, herpesviridae is so...resourceful. | 06:05 |
| gene | yeah that's small | 06:05 |
| percent | There is just nothing it can't do. | 06:05 |
| gene | doesn't it fuck with cytokines too | 06:06 |
| gene | or is that rabies? | 06:06 |
| gene | rabies is a weird one too | 06:07 |
| percent | I'm gonna go take a crap | 06:07 |
| percent | kanzure's herpes gave me the runs | 06:07 |
| gene | it infects nervous cells till it gets to the brain | 06:07 |
| percent | since it infected my intestines | 06:07 |
| percent | gene: it just sits there and chills on the axons | 06:07 |
| gene | damn that herpes | 06:08 |
| percent | till, for whatever reason, there's an outbreak | 06:08 |
| percent | Just an amazing thing, that. | 06:08 |
| * percent marvels at his own genitals | 06:09 | |
| gene | So Kanzure are you really a robot? | 06:10 |
| gene | http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/12/science/12text.html?_r=1&oref=slogin | 06:12 |
| gene | electrospinning is freaky stuff | 06:13 |
| kanzure | Hm. | 06:14 |
| kanzure | Anyway, back to other things | 06:14 |
| fenn | one thing about that repository is there's no inheritance | 06:16 |
| fenn | they put in 'red led' each time | 06:16 |
| kanzure | red led? | 06:17 |
| * kanzure checks | 06:17 | |
| fenn | i mean, each 'red led' entry is unique | 06:17 |
| fenn | as well as glue, wire, solder, etc | 06:17 |
| kanzure | hrm | 06:17 |
| kanzure | not good. | 06:17 |
| kanzure | I bet this is because they know they are not all equivalent | 06:17 |
| kanzure | so what's the point of their ontology then? | 06:18 |
| kanzure | what are they trying to get out of this if not crossdesign relationships? | 06:18 |
| gene | uh oh someone's getting existential here | 06:18 |
| kanzure | gene: http://function2.device.mst.edu:8080/view/options.jsp | 06:19 |
| fenn | they're interested in the relations between artifacts in the product, not necessarily between artifacts in separate products | 06:19 |
| fenn | s/necessarily// | 06:19 |
| gene | link fail | 06:19 |
| kanzure | well, yes they are | 06:19 |
| kanzure | I mean, adl is | 06:19 |
| kanzure | interested in cross relationships | 06:19 |
| fenn | gene: it's some attempt at categorizing every piece of your coffee maker or whatever | 06:19 |
| gene | oh | 06:19 |
| kanzure | 1) coffee 2) ??? 3) profit! | 06:20 |
| gene | yes | 06:20 |
| kanzure | just a hundred times over. | 06:20 |
| kanzure | #2 is not marked, however | 06:20 |
| gene | so can we make something capable of reverse engineering things | 06:20 |
| kanzure | No. It's all human bullshitting, making up terms for things they see. | 06:20 |
| gene | yeah | 06:21 |
| gene | I am confused | 06:21 |
| fenn | i dont think it's all bullshit, just more or less useless because the resolution is '0' or '1' | 06:21 |
| fenn | so cows and monkeys get lumped in the same category 'mammal' | 06:21 |
| kanzure | yay newtonian classical mechanics | 06:21 |
| kanzure | except even worse. | 06:21 |
| gene | cows and monkeys exhibit inherent similarity of genetic code | 06:22 |
| fenn | i think they did it that way because to get it right would take a lot of thinking and complicate their software more than was necessary to feel like they had something | 06:23 |
| kanzure | it's a hard project, yes | 06:23 |
| kanzure | because objects .. turtles .. lots of ranting here .. you know the drill | 06:23 |
| fenn | yeah, turtles | 06:23 |
| fenn | not enough turtles | 06:23 |
| gene | all the way down? | 06:23 |
| kanzure | yep | 06:23 |
| gene | dang | 06:23 |
| fenn | i think it only needs one more layer of turtles to be useful | 06:24 |
| gene | phylogenetic trees are made by computer programs | 06:24 |
| fenn | big deal | 06:24 |
| gene | proteins are reverse engineered by computers | 06:24 |
| fenn | not really | 06:25 |
| gene | to some extent | 06:25 |
| gene | they are | 06:25 |
| fenn | also might i point out that 'sequence of amino acids' is a very restricted subset of manufacturing processes | 06:25 |
| gene | find the function of a few protein part plug into database | 06:25 |
| gene | shit | 06:25 |
| gene | you have a point there | 06:26 |
| gene | so comparing a bunch of cad files of parts might not lead to inferences about parts | 06:27 |
| fenn | it depends what information is in the cad file | 06:27 |
| fenn | i'm not trying to build an AGI here | 06:27 |
| gene | what's an AGI | 06:28 |
| fenn | the information should be explicit, unless it's in a very constrained context | 06:28 |
| fenn | agi = artificial general intelligence, to distinguish it from chess bots, translators, theorem provers, etc. things that people said computers would never be able to do | 06:29 |
| gene | ok | 06:29 |
| fenn | an agi should be able to make general inferences and transcendent leaps of thought | 06:29 |
| gene | step 1 hook neural network up to parts database, step 2 ???, step 3 PROFIT! | 06:29 |
| kanzure | Not really. | 06:30 |
| gene | I see what you mean | 06:30 |
| kanzure | We've done that in the ADL already, there's nothing to it. | 06:30 |
| fenn | not enough data | 06:30 |
| kanzure | well, it's more for modeling what the designer would like to see more than anything, but anyway | 06:30 |
| fenn | modeling what the designer would like to see? | 06:30 |
| fenn | "i'd like to see a space shuttle" and then *poof*? | 06:30 |
| gene | you know, having a parts database and stuff might be what the brain does | 06:31 |
| kanzure | fenn: graph rewriting rules, rewiring the network for different changes in general to make to the design; anyway, another time | 06:31 |
| kanzure | the brain does lots of compartmentalization, it's true | 06:31 |
| gene | hmmm... wonder what part of the brain design stuff happens in | 06:32 |
| fenn | gene: i think brain mostly does pattern recognition and then backpropagation in the design phase | 06:32 |
| gene | I mean think about it bryan | 06:32 |
| gene | I mean Kanzure | 06:32 |
| kanzure | http://heybryan.org/mediawiki/index.php/Sustained_attention | 06:32 |
| kanzure | http://heybryan.org/thinking.html | 06:32 |
| kanzure | I'm already on it... | 06:32 |
| fenn | most engineering is 'braindead' meaning people don't actually explicitly go through all the logic steps to reach a design | 06:32 |
| gene | you essentially have a parts library of all the parts you have seen | 06:32 |
| gene | I know | 06:33 |
| fenn | i certainly don't design stuff based on what parts i have seen | 06:33 |
| gene | for me, I get an idea, and it just falls into place | 06:33 |
| gene | what have you designed | 06:33 |
| fenn | nothing :( | 06:34 |
| gene | not even simple tools like stick hammers? | 06:34 |
| gene | or what not | 06:34 |
| fenn | ok, some tesla turbine engine | 06:34 |
| fenn | except for some fasteners it's all custom parts | 06:34 |
| gene | how did you design it? | 06:34 |
| fenn | with a pencil | 06:35 |
| fenn | what do you mean 'part' anyway? | 06:35 |
| gene | you worked from a template essentially | 06:35 |
| gene | you know the basic concept of how a tesla turbine works | 06:35 |
| fenn | right, i didnt discover how it worked from basic principles, but someone did | 06:36 |
| gene | yeah that is what I mean | 06:36 |
| gene | now how did you design the individual parts like the case? | 06:36 |
| gene | the intake? | 06:36 |
| fenn | i have a design for a fusion reactor from first principles, but many of the "parts" are just simple wires and electrical signals | 06:36 |
| fenn | the case is essentially a diffusor and stator vanes | 06:37 |
| fenn | it does double duty as bearing mounts | 06:37 |
| fenn | and thermal insulation | 06:38 |
| fenn | yadda yadda | 06:38 |
| gene | you mean this thing burns gas? | 06:38 |
| fenn | yes it's like a jet engine | 06:38 |
| gene | did you work from plans | 06:38 |
| gene | ? | 06:38 |
| fenn | no | 06:38 |
| gene | dang | 06:39 |
| fenn | is that really hard to believe? | 06:39 |
| gene | no | 06:39 |
| fenn | artists make up new forms all the time | 06:39 |
| gene | so you combined two concepts | 06:39 |
| fenn | er, not really | 06:40 |
| gene | that this part can run off of pressure, and that this can provide the pressure | 06:40 |
| fenn | it wasnt like "tesla turbines are cool" and "jet engines are cool" therefore "tesla gas turbine!" | 06:40 |
| fenn | more like, how can i run my car on cardboard? | 06:41 |
| fenn | then i go through ways to extract energy from cardboard | 06:41 |
| gene | but you know that burning gas heats things up, heated up gas expands | 06:41 |
| gene | but I don't think it's possible to for computer based neural nets to make these kinds of inferences yet | 06:42 |
| gene | well gotta goggle out | 06:43 |
| fenn | why not? i thought that categorization was what nn's were good at | 06:43 |
| fenn | bah | 06:43 |
| kanzure | why do they always leave | 06:43 |
| fenn | they have important things to do like go to class in the morning | 06:43 |
| kanzure | so do I but at least I idle | 06:43 |
| fenn | chatzill@ | 06:43 |
| kanzure | my browser hasn't closed since '93 | 06:44 |
| fenn | i was born with a browser running on my retinal neurons | 06:44 |
| kanzure | omg | 06:44 |
| fenn | stfu | 06:44 |
| kanzure | oh, I get it now | 06:45 |
| kanzure | you were making a reference to the time | 06:45 |
| * kanzure sleeps too | 06:45 | |
| kanzure | up to 2592. I don't like this rate. | 06:46 |
| fenn | that's only a month til it's done | 06:47 |
| kanzure | #2553 = superwool | 06:47 |
| kanzure | bleh, I always wait until datasets are completely downloaded to do anything with it | 06:47 |
| kanzure | I obviously need to break this habit | 06:47 |
| fenn | i wonder if they have the magic paint that protects against 3000degF flame | 06:47 |
| kanzure | we'll be able to query for that shortly. | 06:48 |
| fenn | Striking a Balance between Engineering Science and Engineering Design | 06:51 |
| fenn | i guess this means they're admitting "Design" is basically art froofery | 06:51 |
| fenn | The underlying premise of the proposed work is that failure modes ultimately correlate back to the function that a particular component solves. If the link between failure mode and function can be established, then we speculate that component solutions for each function can be designed to eliminate or significantly reduce a given failure mode | 06:52 |
| kanzure | " can be designed" turtle art | 11:44 |
| kanzure | 5220 | 12:44 |
| kanzure | <20 days? | 12:44 |
| * kanzure tries to find dj inphinity's euro temptations torrent | 13:00 | |
| kanzure | the seeds didn't quite sproute. | 13:00 |
| willPow3r | quick question | 16:16 |
| willPow3r | has running tor kept you guys from connecting to irc at all? | 16:16 |
| ybit | http://www2.le.ac.uk/departments/engineering/extranet/research-groups/neuroengineering-lab/ | 17:02 |
| ybit | willpower, yeah, i had difficulties awhile back connecting to freenode with tor | 17:02 |
| ybit | i think freenode has some info on their website about this | 17:03 |
| ybit | well, i wanted to study in spain, but there isn't much going on there in neurotecnolog?a o nanotecnolog?a from what i can find | 17:04 |
| ybit | atleast, not for undergrads | 17:08 |
| willPow3r | ybit, are you in the US? | 17:08 |
| ybit | s? | 17:08 |
| willPow3r | why would you want to study out of the country anyway, especially for neuroscience? | 17:09 |
| ybit | i want to study in spain because i could hone my spanish speaking skills much quicker | 17:09 |
| ybit | neuroscience is something i'm interested in, so that's what i was looking for | 17:10 |
| ybit | guess i will try the tech school here though | 17:10 |
| ybit | or england | 17:10 |
| ybit | or canada | 17:10 |
| ybit | doesn't matter really | 17:11 |
| willPow3r | not for undergrad so much | 17:11 |
| kanzure | willPow3r: No. | 17:26 |
| kanzure | I'm not using tor overall, however. | 17:26 |
| kanzure | hm, can anybody give me a good excuse to not go to the 270+ company career fair? | 17:27 |
| kanzure | http://technology.newscientist.com/article/dn14790-sketch-your-own-labonachip-could-save-lives.html?DCMP=ILC-hmts&nsref=news4_head_dn14790 Sketch your own lab-on-a-chip with sunlight/UV light, etchant ink for your pen and a transparency. | 17:30 |
| kanzure | for microfluidic devices. | 17:30 |
| kanzure | Now, bonus points for somebody who can tell me what I can do with just drawing little pathways for water to run down .. | 17:30 |
| kanzure | they claim diagnostics | 17:30 |
| kanzure | but wtf? | 17:31 |
| kanzure | oh, also | 17:34 |
| kanzure | ybit, fenn, it turns out that one of the people that signed up to the IEEE group | 17:34 |
| kanzure | works in the Design Engineering Lab | 17:34 |
| kanzure | she and I were talking via email a week ago, | 17:34 |
| kanzure | and I was replying today to her latest message and saw that she was at mst.edu, so I mentioned my last use of their servers, only to find her name listed there | 17:35 |
| kanzure | anywho, small world. | 17:35 |
| kanzure | 7173 = AISI 118 Steel, normalized at 925 celsius (1700 fahrenheit), air cooled, 25 m. Round. Applications include medium duty shafts, studs, pins, distributor cams, cam shafts, and universal joints. Poissons ratio 0.29. | 18:01 |
| kanzure | http://steel.org/ http://autosteel.org/ | 18:01 |
| kanzure | http://steel-trp.org/ | 18:01 |
| kanzure | etc. | 18:01 |
| kanzure | gah, who runs a webserver that only accepts www | 18:02 |
| nsh | yeah, i hate that | 18:04 |
| kanzure | nsh is back again? | 18:04 |
| nsh | mosrtly | 18:11 |
| kanzure | http://austin.pm.org/ can't get more lazy than this. | 18:57 |
| kanzure | fenn, do we want to steal/use the designengineering.org repository for stuff? | 20:11 |
| kanzure | I'm pretty sure that it's sort of useful but mostly not sort of thing | 20:11 |
| percent | hey | 20:14 |
| kanzure | Hi percent. | 20:15 |
| percent | extra points if, in the next minute, someone can tell me a material that will withstand 1200C @ 70 torr without outgassing | 20:15 |
| percent | a material which is not alumina | 20:15 |
| kanzure | arvhladfkadfjlak | 20:15 |
| kanzure | my material download is not done yet | 20:15 |
| kanzure | I'm at #8066 out of #80920 | 20:15 |
| kanzure | and I haven't translated it into a queryable database yet | 20:15 |
| kanzure | argh | 20:16 |
| percent | f ya | 20:16 |
| kanzure | hm, I can at least use the PNPPS GA/SA stuff with that design repository (maybe) if I implement another turtle shell layer thingy | 20:24 |
| kanzure | so that there can be recombinant designing going on there | 20:25 |
| kanzure | and this would be done by making parts 'inheritable' and members of multiple 'products' instead of being separate | 20:25 |
| kanzure | wtf, facebook is stupid | 22:12 |
| kanzure | 3 MB sent over their network in the backend when a user makes a request, processed overall in 15 ms | 22:12 |
| kanzure | nobody knew what FOAF was. | 22:12 |
| kanzure | xml output is broken | 23:50 |
| kanzure | another crawl? | 23:51 |
| procto | kanzure: did you see my link to http://vdash.org last night? | 23:51 |
| kanzure | yes, but I only briefly looked at the front page | 23:51 |
| kanzure | looked like some ascii thingies | 23:51 |
| kanzure | hrm | 23:52 |
| kanzure | syntax is odd | 23:52 |
| procto | look at the slides | 23:52 |
| procto | it's a project in progress | 23:52 |
| kanzure | I'd rather not, slides are going to take extra load on this box at the moment, maybe later | 23:52 |
| kanzure | hm, pdf | 23:52 |
| procto | yeah, beamer slides | 23:53 |
| procto | the e-club ones are more comprehensive | 23:53 |
| kanzure | wiki is silly | 23:55 |
| kanzure | for this. | 23:55 |
| kanzure | but I'm glad that at least somebody is close to the right idea | 23:56 |
| kanzure | freer? | 23:56 |
| procto | heh yeah, that's him | 23:57 |
| kanzure | yay | 23:57 |
| procto | I dispute that. I think wiki is ideal for this. This is exactly the type of thing wikis are best for. | 23:57 |
| kanzure | uh? | 23:57 |
| kanzure | just send the files to the user. | 23:57 |
| kanzure | that's it. | 23:57 |
| kanzure | you don't need bulky crappy HTML for this | 23:57 |
| kanzure | automated mathematics is for mathematics, not looking pretty | 23:58 |
| fenn | pardon if i ask the obvious, but what does it do? | 23:58 |
| kanzure | if you wanted to look pretty, go buy those calculus-with-pornstar vids | 23:58 |
| procto | if you want to have a lot of people contribute | 23:58 |
| fenn | besides render latex | 23:58 |
| procto | you need it to look pretty | 23:58 |
| kanzure | fenn: verification apparently | 23:58 |
| procto | fenn: it verifies the math being put in, and makes mathematically sound connections | 23:58 |
| kanzure | modular unit tests of theorems and such. | 23:58 |
| procto | so if for example you put in a proof that glossed over some components | 23:58 |
| procto | someone else can come in and fill those out | 23:58 |
| kanzure | so you claim if you want people to do anything, they must use a wiki | 23:59 |
| procto | no.... | 23:59 |
| kanzure | "if you want to have a lot of people contribute" | 23:59 |
| procto | no, that's why you need it to be pretty | 23:59 |
| fenn | being able to see what's going on is good, and many people have web browsers who wouldnt otherwise be bothered to install your software | 23:59 |
| procto | a wiki is good for collaborative incremental stuff | 23:59 |
| procto | incremental is the key | 23:59 |
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