| --- Day changed Sun Oct 05 2008 | ||
| * fenn smells something vaguely like food | 00:02 | |
| bkero | It's your own searing flesh. ;) | 00:33 |
|---|---|---|
| -!- gene is now known as turtlesalltheway | 00:49 | |
| fenn | probably my cornea. too much informational radiation | 00:51 |
| turtlesalltheway | fenn grow a new one i a petri dish | 01:00 |
| turtlesalltheway | this is a biohacking forum | 01:00 |
| turtlesalltheway | so extract some cells from your eye and put em in nutrient dish | 01:01 |
| fenn | i did that with a chicken once | 01:03 |
| fenn | can't say as though it meant anything | 01:03 |
| superturtle | I still think it could work with 'abandoning ship' from time to time. | 01:22 |
| superturtle | you can't make everybody leave the titanic, but at least the ones who do won't die | 01:22 |
| superturtle | (well, they at least have a chance of not dying) | 01:23 |
| * superturtle still doesn't understand why it's commonly held that everybody who remained on the titanic died. It's not like you can't just float off of the top of the deck like everybody else who jumped into lifeboats .. (ignoring the freezing water -- people could carry each other and such) | 01:23 | |
| facefaceface | superturtle, wasn't there some crazy undertow? | 01:26 |
| facefaceface | the lead ship dragging a column of water down with it? | 01:26 |
| superturtle | huh | 01:26 |
| facefaceface | growing eyes eh? | 01:26 |
| facefaceface | that really reminds me of 'biohacking' - if we go over to biometrics, its isn't too much effort for someone to clone your eye | 01:27 |
| superturtle | tissue engineering is still somewhat an issue. I haven't entirely figured that out. | 01:27 |
| facefaceface | s/clone/grow from a skin tissue using a matrix/ | 01:27 |
| facefaceface | yeah, but in the next 5 years it'll be a doddle | 01:28 |
| facefaceface | superturtle, you working on this? | 01:28 |
| -!- superturtle is now known as kanzure_ | 01:28 | |
| kanzure_ | yes | 01:28 |
| facefaceface | have you seen the 'artificial bladder' stuff that exists? | 01:28 |
| kanzure_ | Yes. | 01:28 |
| kanzure_ | Last one I saw was a 3D sphere with cells printed all over it. | 01:28 |
| facefaceface | btw, it wont work for biohacking, identical twins don't have the same eye scan. | 01:28 |
| facefaceface | OK | 01:29 |
| facefaceface | the neat thing is the recreation of the laminar structure | 01:29 |
| facefaceface | great for studying cancer invasion | 01:29 |
| facefaceface | how do they feed that thing btw? | 01:29 |
| procto | as far as biometric security, its security ceiling is really quite low | 01:29 |
| kanzure_ | I thought it was only a thin layer of cells, so just dip it in a nutrient medium, no? | 01:30 |
| kanzure_ | not dip, sorry -- keep in | 01:30 |
| facefaceface | kanzure_, and I guess you've seen the 'support matrix' stuff for shaping organs extra... what is a fancy word for body? | 01:30 |
| facefaceface | ectopically? | 01:30 |
| kanzure_ | Morphology? | 01:30 |
| procto | until we introduce you don't need to clone an eye, just cut it out of the person | 01:30 |
| facefaceface | extramorphically | 01:30 |
| procto | the only way to fix biometrics is create system where it's hard to find out whose eye needs to be cut out | 01:30 |
| facefaceface | procto, cloning is more 'sci-fi' | 01:30 |
| procto | heh, sule | 01:31 |
| kanzure_ | PCR? | 01:31 |
| kanzure_ | PCR is scifi? | 01:31 |
| facefaceface | kanzure_, the model I saw had several layers of the bladder on a support | 01:31 |
| procto | sure* | 01:31 |
| kanzure_ | Yeah, something like that. | 01:31 |
| * procto has no idea what you're talking about ,btw | 01:31 | |
| kanzure_ | I don't either. | 01:31 |
| kanzure_ | I think we're talking about scaffolds for organ growth. | 01:31 |
| facefaceface | biohacking in the 'strict' sense | 01:32 |
| facefaceface | did you read that paper about identification from a DNA using SNPs? | 01:32 |
| procto | hacking using biology? | 01:32 |
| facefaceface | you can take a DNA sample from a crime scene, and using SNPs generate a highly significant match to an individual, even if their DNA contributes only 100th of the sample | 01:33 |
| facefaceface | this puts people at the scene of a crime. | 01:33 |
| facefaceface | now for the KGB / CIA / MI5 this is a problem. | 01:33 |
| procto | facefaceface: can you link to that paper? | 01:33 |
| facefaceface | can't have hard evidence of spys ... lemmy look | 01:33 |
| kanzure_ | Hm. Come to think of it, there's no protocol for SNP analysis in the biohacking toolkit facefaceface. Would you be so kind as to find and add something into the repository? | 01:34 |
| facefaceface | so the spy in question wears a DNA-cologne, made up of primers designed to 'subvert' the standard forensic DNA amplification protocol | 01:34 |
| kanzure_ | heh | 01:34 |
| facefaceface | now that's hacking ;-) | 01:34 |
| facefaceface | procto, http://www.plosgenetics.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pgen.1000167 | 01:36 |
| facefaceface | kanzure_, all I know are the 'genotyping chips' from affy | 01:36 |
| kanzure_ | affymatrix? | 01:37 |
| facefaceface | yeah, or 'naffy' as a person from illumina called them | 01:37 |
| facefaceface | kanzure_, there is a bunch of stuff about identifying SNPs from next gen... | 01:37 |
| kanzure_ | in vitro embryo selection? | 01:38 |
| facefaceface | kanzure_, I'll send you a booklet you might be interested in... I't 'll have some usefull links | 01:38 |
| facefaceface | ? | 01:38 |
| facefaceface | please let me know if you can read that PDF | 01:39 |
| facefaceface | (the one in your email) | 01:39 |
| facefaceface | someone told me that it was 'corupted' | 01:39 |
| kanzure_ | blah, why can't I launch xpdf from this machine on my other machine | 01:39 |
| kanzure_ | okay | 01:39 |
| kanzure_ | I'll look (eventually) | 01:39 |
| facefaceface | kanzure_, I'll hopefully get recordings of the lectures to go with that booklet. | 01:40 |
| facefaceface | right now I am off to bed. (sorry for avoiding your BioHacking request). | 01:40 |
| facefaceface | night | 01:40 |
| kanzure_ | http://mebeam.com/DIYBio | 01:40 |
| turtlesalltheway | you can't clone an eye | 01:41 |
| turtlesalltheway | but you can grow a new cornea | 01:41 |
| turtlesalltheway | however you have to take a chunk of cornea out | 01:42 |
| percent_ | what's up, FAGS | 02:13 |
| turtlesalltheway | not much man | 02:24 |
| turtlesalltheway | we need to be thinking simpler | 02:27 |
| kanzure_ | ? | 02:28 |
| turtlesalltheway | in other words | 02:28 |
| turtlesalltheway | instead of nuts and bolts | 02:28 |
| turtlesalltheway | we need things that interlock like puzzle pieces | 02:29 |
| kanzure_ | nuts and bolts are like puzzle pieces. | 02:29 |
| turtlesalltheway | yeah | 02:29 |
| turtlesalltheway | but they are hard puzzle pieces | 02:29 |
| turtlesalltheway | http://www.molecularassembler.com/KSRM/3.25.4.htm | 02:30 |
| turtlesalltheway | something along the lines of that | 02:30 |
| turtlesalltheway | it vastly simplifies assembly | 02:30 |
| turtlesalltheway | no need for jigs, machine vision, or fancy stuff like that | 02:30 |
| turtlesalltheway | see figure 3.80 | 02:32 |
| turtlesalltheway | it's an interesting method for universal circuitry | 02:33 |
| kanzure_ | I am still not convinced that ad-hoc design will generate a self-replicating design. | 02:34 |
| kanzure_ | So far it hasn't worked for anything else .. and besides, increasingly more functional integration might be the method, requiring a systematic recompilation method anyway. | 02:36 |
| kanzure_ | not random fandom of patents .. | 02:36 |
| percent_ | hey FAGS | 02:38 |
| percent_ | what are you up to besides being GAY | 02:39 |
| percent_ | does anyone her like NANOWIRES, because you're all GAY | 02:39 |
| percent_ | kanzure: I don't like your idea of brute-forcing or genetic-algorithming the solution to a replicator | 02:39 |
| percent_ | I think it's GAY | 02:39 |
| percent_ | like YOU | 02:39 |
| percent_ | hey gene you FAG | 02:39 |
| percent_ | everyone in here is GAY | 02:40 |
| percent_ | i'm sure you'll fit right in | 02:40 |
| gene | except for me | 02:40 |
| percent_ | no you're also gay | 02:40 |
| gene | orly? | 02:40 |
| -!- gene is now known as turtlesalltheway | 02:42 | |
| turtlesalltheway | guess everyone left | 02:45 |
| turtlesalltheway | so kanzure, do you think you can automatically design 3d interlocking pieces | 02:46 |
| kanzure_ | Sounds feasible. | 02:46 |
| turtlesalltheway | excellent | 02:46 |
| kanzure_ | How many cuts on the interlocks? | 02:46 |
| turtlesalltheway | and see how well they stick to each other | 02:47 |
| kanzure_ | Stick? | 02:47 |
| turtlesalltheway | as in, you push two part together and they stick together | 02:47 |
| turtlesalltheway | like lego bricks | 02:47 |
| turtlesalltheway | except better | 02:47 |
| kanzure_ | I'm not familiar with the mechanical characteristics of stickage. | 02:48 |
| turtlesalltheway | pieces interlock and stay interlocked | 02:48 |
| kanzure_ | That doesn't help. | 02:49 |
| kanzure_ | It's easy to have a 3D block of material and algorithmically cut it up into different pieces so that there are little inserters and little receptors for the inserters or something, but that doesn't tell me whether or not a hunk of metal of it will 'interlock'. | 02:50 |
| turtlesalltheway | well it's easy to make interlocking pieces in 2d | 02:52 |
| kanzure_ | Do you mean interlock in the same way that a flimsy 2D puzzle does? | 02:52 |
| turtlesalltheway | no | 02:52 |
| turtlesalltheway | I am having trouble putting my concept into words | 02:53 |
| turtlesalltheway | so I have a program on my calculator | 02:53 |
| kanzure_ | In the case of a screw interlocking with a block of metal, I suspect there's some variables like rotational tension or something going into it. | 02:53 |
| kanzure_ | You'll get better at it. | 02:53 |
| turtlesalltheway | so what it does is draw a random connecting pattern | 02:54 |
| kanzure_ | Does that guarantee that they interlock? | 02:54 |
| turtlesalltheway | it does this by moving a "pen" across the screen | 02:54 |
| turtlesalltheway | when the pen hits the bottom of the screen | 02:54 |
| kanzure_ | Don't bother with that - the algorithm for drawing it is easy. | 02:54 |
| turtlesalltheway | it moves to the top of the screen | 02:54 |
| turtlesalltheway | when it moves to the left of the screen | 02:55 |
| turtlesalltheway | it moves to the right of the screen | 02:55 |
| turtlesalltheway | do you see what I mean now? | 02:55 |
| kanzure_ | See what? You've only described the property of when x=x_max, x is reset to zero. That doesn't tell me how to guarantee that a part 'interlocks'. | 02:56 |
| turtlesalltheway | this program moves a pen over the surface in a defined pattern | 02:57 |
| turtlesalltheway | do you have a ti-83 or above calculator? | 03:00 |
| kanzure_ | Fine, make a linked list where each object in the list is a vector expressing magnitude and direction. Then you just randomly generate variables within confines that don't allow them to intersect each other, and close the object at some point. Then you do an inverse or some function like that to generate the complement of that shape. | 03:00 |
| kanzure_ | Does that guarantee the characteristic of interlocking, though? | 03:00 |
| turtlesalltheway | maybe | 03:02 |
| turtlesalltheway | why not deform a cube? | 03:02 |
| kanzure_ | That's possible too. But it doesn't answer my question. | 03:03 |
| turtlesalltheway | cut on the bottom results in anti-cut on the top | 03:03 |
| turtlesalltheway | yes | 03:03 |
| turtlesalltheway | but it might not interlock very well | 03:03 |
| turtlesalltheway | so use a genetic algorithm | 03:03 |
| kanzure_ | You asked me about interlocking components, but you keep avoiding the issue .. why? | 03:04 |
| turtlesalltheway | if the components cannot be seperated by force x | 03:04 |
| turtlesalltheway | then they interlock | 03:04 |
| kanzure_ | How is separation by force determined? | 03:05 |
| turtlesalltheway | repel parts from each other | 03:06 |
| kanzure_ | Yes, but what keeps them together in the first place? And you're not allowed to be circular. | 03:06 |
| turtlesalltheway | the other part | 03:07 |
| turtlesalltheway | or maybe just glue | 03:07 |
| kanzure_ | uh? | 03:07 |
| kanzure_ | I thought we were talking about interlocking components, not glues in between. | 03:07 |
| turtlesalltheway | screw it, let's just design the parts ourselves | 03:09 |
| kanzure_ | What parts? | 03:09 |
| turtlesalltheway | 1. interlocking electrical circuit components | 03:10 |
| turtlesalltheway | 2. interlocking positioning rails | 03:10 |
| kanzure_ | A screw is a simple machine used to translate torque into linear .. apparently its interlocking analysis is called "holding power". | 03:11 |
| turtlesalltheway | indeed | 03:11 |
| turtlesalltheway | so you want to know what holds screws to the thing being screwed? | 03:11 |
| turtlesalltheway | the threads | 03:12 |
| kanzure_ | wtf, I typoed :( s/toruqe into linear/torque force into linear force/ | 03:12 |
| kanzure_ | No, I don't want to know what holds screws together, I want to know what holds wedges and interlocking components in place under strain. | 03:13 |
| kanzure_ | s/strain/compression/ | 03:14 |
| turtlesalltheway | other parts of course | 03:14 |
| kanzure_ | No, that's what's applying the forces in the first place. | 03:15 |
| turtlesalltheway | I cannot figure out what you are asking | 03:16 |
| kanzure_ | "preload" | 03:20 |
| kanzure | Bolt stress detector => http://www.google.com/patents?hl=en&lr=&vid=USPAT3969713&id=E_g5AAAAEBAJ&oi=fnd&dq=%22preload%22+screws+-bone+stress+OR+tension+OR+compression+-orthopedic | 03:21 |
| turtlesalltheway | are you looking for an algorithm to generate interlocking parts? | 03:21 |
| kanzure_ | No. That's easy. | 03:21 |
| kanzure_ | The question is whether or not they will, actually, when tested, interlock. | 03:22 |
| kanzure_ | The path stuff is simple peanuts. | 03:22 |
| turtlesalltheway | yeah | 03:22 |
| turtlesalltheway | but the first question that needs to be answered is can a cellular automaton type self-repper actually replicate | 03:23 |
| turtlesalltheway | fully | 03:23 |
| kanzure_ | For instance: you can cut a sheet of metal with a laser (because you want to use a laser) in some zig-zag direction down the centerline. You take the two parts and they will not 'interlock' together really. | 03:23 |
| kanzure_ | What the hell are you talking about? | 03:23 |
| kanzure_ | I thought we were talking about an interlocking component generator. | 03:23 |
| turtlesalltheway | for a self-replicating machine | 03:24 |
| turtlesalltheway | http://www.molecularassembler.com/KSRM/3.18.htm | 03:24 |
| kanzure_ | What's wrong with the SKDB approach? | 03:24 |
| turtlesalltheway | http://www.molecularassembler.com/KSRM/3.25.4.htm | 03:24 |
| turtlesalltheway | I don't think anything is wrong with it | 03:25 |
| kanzure_ | you must think something is wrong with it if you're still going for ad-hoc design strategies. | 03:25 |
| turtlesalltheway | I think if you build everything out of discrete components | 03:25 |
| turtlesalltheway | blocks, wireblocks, motorblocks as opposed to screws, wire, pipe | 03:26 |
| kanzure_ | I think you don't know what ad hoc means. | 03:27 |
| turtlesalltheway | individually machined components | 03:27 |
| kanzure_ | Ad hoc means to "give up on a consistency and just carry on with the current chaos". | 03:27 |
| turtlesalltheway | no this is to make it easier for SKDB | 03:28 |
| kanzure_ | what is 'this' | 03:28 |
| turtlesalltheway | using block components, that can perform multiple functions as opposed to machined components that can perform one function | 03:29 |
| kanzure_ | Why'd you assume it wouldn't include block components? | 03:29 |
| turtlesalltheway | I am saying dike out machined components | 03:30 |
| turtlesalltheway | or unique components | 03:30 |
| kanzure_ | Do you mean to say to make that a closer left-hand-branch on the tree? | 03:31 |
| turtlesalltheway | yes | 03:31 |
| turtlesalltheway | but the question is, can a bunch of block replicate? | 03:32 |
| kanzure_ | that's what SKDB answers. | 03:32 |
| turtlesalltheway | indeed | 03:33 |
| kanzure_ | .. | 03:33 |
| turtlesalltheway | the moses replicator could self assemble | 03:33 |
| turtlesalltheway | to some degree | 03:33 |
| turtlesalltheway | but it couldn't fabricate it's own parts | 03:33 |
| turtlesalltheway | so the question is how do we get it to fabricate it's own parts | 03:39 |
| kanzure_ | That's why we do dependency checks on the manufacturing processes, parts and components, such that we find the subgraphs in the pot of soup .. | 03:40 |
| kanzure_ | (automatically) | 03:40 |
| turtlesalltheway | how again | 03:41 |
| kanzure_ | how much are you asking 'how' .. i.e., from what point do you need me to start explaining | 03:41 |
| turtlesalltheway | do you determine if an aluminum ore processor can be part of a replicating machine | 03:41 |
| kanzure_ | Not individually. | 03:42 |
| kanzure_ | Instead, you have all sorts of ore processors in the database/repository too. | 03:42 |
| turtlesalltheway | do they network to other parts or what? | 03:42 |
| kanzure_ | And you go searching from every single part to see if it can be connected to a part that connects to a part that .. connects to a part that makes that same ore processor. | 03:42 |
| kanzure_ | Every part has an input and output, yes. | 03:42 |
| turtlesalltheway | so you have to put in parts to see if they replicate | 03:43 |
| turtlesalltheway | SKDB can't give you guidelines on what parts to use | 03:44 |
| kanzure_ | Please rephrase. | 03:45 |
| turtlesalltheway | you have to put a replicator design into SKDB to see if it replicates? | 03:46 |
| kanzure_ | Nope. | 03:46 |
| turtlesalltheway | ok | 03:46 |
| kanzure_ | (But you could (and you should)). | 03:46 |
| kanzure_ | What you do is you put in individual parts. | 03:46 |
| kanzure_ | You let SKDB show you which parts can be interconnected to make replicators. | 03:46 |
| turtlesalltheway | and it tells you which ones to use? | 03:46 |
| kanzure_ | It may even tell you multiple options. | 03:47 |
| turtlesalltheway | excellent | 03:47 |
| turtlesalltheway | so how do we see if Charles Michael Collin's replicator replicates | 03:50 |
| turtlesalltheway | http://www.geocities.com/charles_c_22191/_home.html | 03:50 |
| kanzure_ | What are the parts? | 03:50 |
| turtlesalltheway | http://www.geocities.com/charles_c_22191/index2.html?1205127168630 | 03:51 |
| turtlesalltheway | here's some source | 03:51 |
| turtlesalltheway | http://www.everypatent.com/comp/pat5764518.html | 03:51 |
| turtlesalltheway | here's a patent | 03:51 |
| kanzure_ | What are the parts? | 03:51 |
| turtlesalltheway | that's all there is | 03:51 |
| kanzure_ | Then how the hell do I know? | 03:51 |
| turtlesalltheway | I don't know | 03:53 |
| turtlesalltheway | heck | 03:53 |
| turtlesalltheway | no one except Charles Michael Collins knows | 03:53 |
| kanzure_ | Doesn't really help. :( | 03:53 |
| turtlesalltheway | http://www.geocities.com/charles_c_22191/_home.html | 03:53 |
| turtlesalltheway | here's the homepage | 03:53 |
| turtlesalltheway | I know | 03:53 |
| turtlesalltheway | wtf | 03:55 |
| turtlesalltheway | I swear there were like some diagrams in that patent | 03:55 |
| turtlesalltheway | but now they are gone | 03:55 |
| turtlesalltheway | http://www.molecularassembler.com/KSRM/3.16.htm | 03:59 |
| turtlesalltheway | there's a diagram there | 03:59 |
| turtlesalltheway | try emailing Collins | 03:59 |
| turtlesalltheway | dang it | 04:01 |
| turtlesalltheway | I am having trouble getting my tv tuner to work | 04:01 |
| gene | I'm back | 04:22 |
| kanzure | http://materialica.com/ 11th International Trade Fair for Materials Applications, Surface Technology and Product Engineering " the leading trade fair for material supply," | 06:00 |
| gene | anyone there? | 06:14 |
| kanzure_ | gene: yes. | 06:21 |
| gene | dang | 06:21 |
| gene | where do you post the log files for this? | 06:24 |
| kanzure_ | I don't post them regularly. | 06:25 |
| kanzure_ | http://heybryan.org/~bbishop/docs/ should have a 'logs.zip' file. | 06:26 |
| kanzure_ | And if not, then maybe http://heybryan.org/docs/ | 06:26 |
| gene | can you search it on google? | 06:26 |
| kanzure_ | No. | 06:26 |
| gene | ok | 06:26 |
| kanzure_ | You can try. I'm pretty sure it's not on Google. | 06:26 |
| gene | http://www.google.com/patents?id=5VQaAAAAEBAJ&dq=self+replicating+Charles+Michael+Collins | 06:27 |
| gene | I found all the parts for that replicator | 06:27 |
| gene | that needs to be tested | 06:27 |
| gene | that is about all information on it | 06:28 |
| gene | maybe you can figure out how it work | 06:30 |
| gene | s | 06:30 |
| gene | all I know is that it uses a hot knife to cut modular pieces | 06:30 |
| gene | then there is something with wires | 06:30 |
| gene | there is something called a dabber | 06:32 |
| gene | I can't figure out how it works | 06:32 |
| gene | ok, now the patent seems very weird | 06:37 |
| gene | "mimicking lattice structure and chemical content of substances, create transponders to mimic energies or fields" | 06:38 |
| gene | wtf? | 06:38 |
| UtopiahGHML | anybody played with OpenCalais? | 06:41 |
| gene | what's opencalais? | 06:41 |
| UtopiahGHML | web service to analyze your text and produce meta-data to use with semantic engines (or just have html annotations) | 06:45 |
| UtopiahGHML | opencalais.com | 06:45 |
| UtopiahGHML | http://www.opencalais.com/calaisAPI | 06:45 |
| facefaceface | UtopiahGHML, ? | 12:52 |
| facefaceface | where is your website again? | 12:53 |
| facefaceface | yo nsh | 12:54 |
| facefaceface | do you know the url of UtopiahGHML 'smart idea' wiki? | 12:54 |
| nsh | oh | 12:59 |
| nsh | hmm | 12:59 |
| * nsh checks logs | 12:59 | |
| facefaceface | ty | 13:00 |
| nsh | 04[16:58] <UtopiahGHML> nsh: http://seedea.free.fr/wiki/index.php?n=Content.Seedealiveprogresses | 13:01 |
| facefaceface | seedea thanks | 13:01 |
| facefaceface | why dosn't google recognise 'me' as a valid email address? | 13:02 |
| facefaceface | do we have a bot? | 13:03 |
| facefaceface | 2003 - 13? | 13:03 |
| facefaceface | `1990 | 13:03 |
| facefaceface | I need more words for OMFG | 13:07 |
| * nsh smiles | 13:32 | |
| facefaceface | OK, I added some words to this seedea thing... | 13:41 |
| facefaceface | http://seedea.free.fr/wiki/index.php?n=Oimp.MetaDNA | 13:41 |
| facefaceface | Please for your feedback (Added 'Abstract') | 13:41 |
| facefaceface | here is the important bit... "This phenomenal technological revolution promises to revolutionize almost every field of biology and health care. However, these advances in molecular biology have created a new bottleneck in the scientific discovery pipeline. Namely, the cost of data storage." | 13:42 |
| facefaceface | fenn, can you add words about how cool DNA is for data storage? | 13:53 |
| * nsh is dubious | 14:10 | |
| nsh | how fast can you see read/write to dna | 14:10 |
| nsh | ? | 14:10 |
| nsh | solid state storage capacity/price is growing with a pretty high exponent | 14:11 |
| * nsh frowns | 14:13 | |
| nsh | why isn't all this data collected somewhere centrally... | 14:13 |
| nsh | (regarding growth patterns, etc.) | 14:13 |
| nsh | it should be possible to plot anything against anything easily | 14:13 |
| nsh | using community-sourced data | 14:14 |
| nsh | someone needs to whip the internet a little | 14:14 |
| kanzure | nsh: there's a few sites that do that | 14:26 |
| kanzure | but the problem is that everybody gets that idea | 14:26 |
| kanzure | and then their sources are nonintegratable because they keep it all on their little islands | 14:26 |
| kanzure | As it turns out, this was my summer project | 14:26 |
| kanzure | in the areas of technological exponential growth, computing, storage pricing, manufacturing, etc., we had probability distributes within some ranges to sometimes hit points that Kurzweil or other assholes say are true | 14:27 |
| kanzure | is the server accessible? | 14:32 |
| fenn | no | 14:42 |
| nsh | mm | 14:47 |
| * nsh eats breakfast, thinks | 14:48 | |
| kanzure_ | blah. | 14:49 |
| kanzure_ | fixed. | 14:55 |
| nsh | http://www.storagesearch.com/ssd-ram-flash%20pricing.html interesting | 14:56 |
| fenn | hmm blu-ray 200GB disk is making my argument for DNA data storage less compelling | 15:01 |
| kanzure_ | do we have blu-ray burners yet? | 15:01 |
| fenn | i dont know anyone with a blu-ray anything | 15:02 |
| kanzure_ | me either :( | 15:02 |
| fenn | where's my holographic memory cube | 15:05 |
| fenn | anyone know what's up with the price difference in flash SSD's? $12k vs $400 between brands | 15:08 |
| nsh | wouldn't imagine it's for any different reason than all other price-range distribution | 15:10 |
| nsh | people charge what people pay | 15:10 |
| fenn | i must say this looks quite reasonable: http://www.mwave.com/mwave/Skusearch_v2.asp?scriteria=BA25346 | 15:12 |
| fenn | froogle is pretty good for this sort of thing | 15:14 |
| fenn | i feel like a super human shopper already :P | 15:15 |
| kanzure | hah, froogle still exists? | 15:15 |
| fenn | of course. it's when you click on 'shopping' from google's front page | 15:15 |
| fenn | http://unit.aist.go.jp/amri/group/finemfg/English/research/Microfactory/CPT2002.pdf | 15:23 |
| kanzure_ | slow download. | 15:24 |
| fenn | i wouldnt really call it "micro" so much as "mini" | 15:25 |
| kanzure_ | 200k rpm? | 15:26 |
| kanzure_ | (from the abstract) | 15:26 |
| fenn | that seems... unlikely | 15:26 |
| fenn | with that big ol' pulley and timing belt | 15:26 |
| kanzure_ | what's the rpm on airplanes? | 15:27 |
| fenn | ah, it's 20k | 15:27 |
| fenn | must have been a typo | 15:27 |
| fenn | airplanes usually around 30-50k, but some turbines go up to 100krpm | 15:27 |
| fenn | (small ones) | 15:27 |
| kanzure_ | yeah, so, 200k heh' | 15:28 |
| fenn | at 1million weird things start to happen | 15:28 |
| fenn | i want a micro factory :( | 15:29 |
| kanzure_ | enlighten me about the size of the machined objects. | 15:30 |
| kanzure_ | I'm guessing you could just feed a larger object through it or something | 15:30 |
| kanzure_ | and take a hell of a long time for (relatively) 'big' stuff | 15:30 |
| kanzure_ | 'direct die mold machining' | 15:31 |
| kanzure_ | oh, fig 7 shows feeding shoots | 15:31 |
| kanzure_ | what's with the random flag? | 15:31 |
| fenn | spain? | 15:32 |
| fenn | ok so i'd rather have something capable of 10cm x 10cm | 15:34 |
| fenn | but the whole fits-in-a-suitcase idea is nice | 15:34 |
| kanzure_ | "what the hell are you going to do, machine yourself a weapon while on the airplane?" yay | 15:35 |
| fenn | ok so it's 200k rpm after all | 15:36 |
| fenn | i'd machine myself an airplane while on the airplane | 15:36 |
| kanzure_ | "fuck this shit, that wing is totally wrong. here. lemme fix." | 15:36 |
| fenn | then i'd fly it around the cabin and pester the stewardesses | 15:36 |
| fenn | i wonder how long until you have to board the airplane in your underwear | 15:37 |
| fenn | that might be.. interesting | 15:37 |
| kanzure_ | depends on your destination | 15:37 |
| fenn | wow the millfeeds at 50mm/s | 15:39 |
| kanzure_ | these numbers sound all wrong though | 15:39 |
| kanzure_ | I mean, 200k rpm, what have you done, welded the thing to the ground? | 15:39 |
| fenn | it says it machined that logo in 120 seconds | 15:39 |
| kanzure_ | http://www.pmrc.gatech.edu/ISFA/ symposium on flexible automation. | 15:43 |
| kanzure_ | http://heybryan.org/~bbishop/docs/manufacturing/Development%20of%20desktop%20machining%20microfactory.pdf is one of the references mentioned in the PDF you linked. | 15:43 |
| kanzure_ | hm, what's that fig 1 board called? Eric mentioned it to me once. | 15:43 |
| kanzure_ | "it's used in everything" | 15:43 |
| kanzure_ | for prototyping and mounting. L-something? | 15:44 |
| fenn | optical breadboard | 15:44 |
| kanzure_ | k, I agree, but I'm thinking of something else that I can't name now. :( | 15:45 |
| kanzure_ | surely these guys have some CAD/design files for this minifactory. | 15:45 |
| fenn | hah | 15:45 |
| kanzure_ | no? | 15:46 |
| fenn | surely you're joking mister bishop | 15:46 |
| kanzure_ | they just throw random shit together? | 15:46 |
| fenn | there probably is, but i doubt it's either accurate or complete | 15:46 |
| fenn | and most likely scattered over five hard drives that are buried in the lab somewhere | 15:47 |
| fenn | in a format you can't read, probably containing mostly japanese strings | 15:47 |
| fenn | but go ahead and ask, maybe you'll get lucky | 15:48 |
| kanzure_ | hm | 15:52 |
| kanzure | http://www.google.com/patents?id=vDKJAAAAEBAJ&dq=desktop+microfactory | 15:53 |
| fenn | ugh please stop linking to patents | 15:53 |
| kanzure_ | okay. | 15:53 |
| fenn | thanks | 15:53 |
| kanzure | http://books.google.com/books?hl=en&lr=&id=BoqYILA2HuEC&oi=fnd&pg=PA531&dq=%22miniature+manufacturing%22+&ots=neaTYL9MmO&sig=Yz0DTYuX3VvlOKSfsJyAigN5vjU "Concurrent Design of a Manufacturing System Utilizing a Microfactory" by Mishima | 15:55 |
| fenn | yay viewing limits | 15:58 |
| kanzure_ | "This paper documents our efforts to develop a scalable network infrastructure for distributed automation (minifactory)" | 16:01 |
| kanzure_ | huh. "industrial field networks". commercial versions: http://profibus.com/ http://controlnet.org/ http://worldfip.org/ | 16:02 |
| * fenn yawns | 16:02 | |
| kanzure | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_eProcurement good god what happened here | 16:27 |
| kanzure | https://open-b2b.dev.java.net/ | 16:33 |
| kanzure | http://guycrets.blogspot.com/2007/07/b2b-open-source-as2.html | 16:34 |
| kanzure | wtf, who is this "Nikola Stojanovic" person? weren't we recently mentioning him? | 16:38 |
| kanzure | 'New Rosettanet Engineering Information Management Standard allows automated communication of design specifications' http://www.rosettanet.org/cms/sites/RosettaNet/RosettaNet.pdf | 16:45 |
| kanzure | helloo data :) http://members.rosettanet.org/dnn_rose/TradingPartnerDirectory/TradingPartnerDirectorySearch/tabid/294/Default.aspx | 16:47 |
| kanzure | http://code.google.com/p/ebware/ open source business gateway (inactive, no downloads) | 17:03 |
| UtopiahGHML | faceface: you can use seedea.org is easier to remember | 17:20 |
| ybit | no hope for my hard drive | 19:50 |
| ybit | putting live iso on usb drive | 19:51 |
| * kanzure has learned the joys of links2 -g | 19:51 | |
| ybit | hehe | 19:52 |
| ybit | except when viewing flash sites? :) | 19:52 |
| kanzure | flash is for the weak! etc. | 19:52 |
| kanzure | just use a flash script downloader thingy. I wonder if there's a libsvga mplayer variant. | 19:52 |
| ybit | man, i missed the cali. diybio live stream :| | 19:52 |
| * ybit won't have another computer for a couple of months :| | 19:52 | |
| kanzure | somebody recommended a .com for youtube stream capturing stuff the other day | 19:52 |
| kanzure | ybit: how many do you have? | 19:52 |
| ybit | one laptop, one desktop | 19:53 |
| ybit | might be able to get the desktop working though.. | 19:53 |
| ybit | anyone watch or dump the stream from the diybio meeting? | 19:57 |
| kanzure | Nope, but I did go to the URL that was provided. I was hoping it would be looping. Wrong. | 19:57 |
| ybit | kanzure, what was the link about turtles you sent on friday afternoon? | 20:20 |
| kanzure | irrelevant methinks | 20:20 |
| kanzure | you really want it? | 20:20 |
| ybit | heh, i never read it, just wondering what it was | 20:20 |
| kanzure | wow, I'm amazed at how little people can say about EDIFACT, TRADCOMS, SEDAS, VDA, ODETTE, ANASI X.12, ebXML, RosettaNet, PIPS, AS2, B2B, etc. with so many words. | 22:38 |
| kanzure | in the past hour of browsing around the net with my lil' browser I haven't seen any actual implementation notes or anything that might qualify as "not bullshit" | 22:39 |
| * nsh has no idea what any of those are | 22:39 | |
| nsh | so i assume they're all entirely useless articles of techbunkum | 22:39 |
| nsh | *articals | 22:40 |
| kanzure | heh heh. fenn's monkey: http://sap.ittoolbox.com/documents/popular-q-and-a/sap-mm-interview-questions-3586 | 22:49 |
| kanzure | nsh: I'm pretty sure it's articles | 22:49 |
| * nsh smiles | 22:55 | |
| nsh | for some reason i got the idea that the two senses had different spellings | 22:55 |
| kanzure | god. | 23:03 |
| kanzure | these people are doing business transactions in the $billion's over stuff like FTP, | 23:03 |
| kanzure | and then spending hundreds of thousands on programmers to write fancy ftp clients for their fancy "business integration platforms" .. uh, ftp directories | 23:04 |
| nsh | :-/ | 23:05 |
| kanzure | but for all of this work, there's no standard like "robots.txt" on their servers | 23:05 |
| kanzure | though ports 4080, 9999, 5110, 2131, and 5555 might work for some 'stuff' | 23:06 |
| kanzure | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Business_Language 'UBL is another currently being adopted by Scandinavian governments as a legally required standard for sending invoices to governments, and was enforced in February 2005 that all invoices to the Danish government must be sent in an electronic format.' or I guess this points to http://legalxml.org/ | 23:58 |
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