| --- Day changed Sun Oct 12 2008 | ||
| drazak | I wonder how hard it is to synthesize my own | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| kanzure_ | Yay | 00:01 |
| kanzure_ | http://heybryan.org/mediawiki/index.php/DNA_synthesizer | 00:01 |
| kanzure_ | Check the oligonucleotide synthesis instructions. | 00:01 |
| drazak | oh hey | 00:01 |
| willPow3r | i synthesized one with your mom last night | 00:01 |
| drazak | I think I'm going to build my own thermocycler | 00:01 |
| kanzure_ | How exactly? | 00:01 |
| kanzure_ | I've never understood the rapid cooling mechanisms. | 00:01 |
| drazak | welll | 00:02 |
| kanzure_ | Was this some sort of thermal piezo material ? | 00:02 |
| kanzure_ | voltage=>rapid cool down methodology? | 00:02 |
| drazak | what I was thinking is instead of using convectiona and radtiation, I'd have a small water heater, and 2 servos to open the gates for a drain and for cooling | 00:03 |
| kanzure_ | And what would the physical flow setup look like? a tube sitting next to a pvc pipe with the water flow, or you manually moving the tube from hot to cold water bins? | 00:05 |
| drazak | and put the reagents+thermometer in a mostly covered whatchamacallit (the small plastic 'test tubes' for centrifuges) | 00:05 |
| drazak | no no | 00:05 |
| drazak | no manual moving | 00:05 |
| drazak | I want to be able to walk away | 00:05 |
| drazak | ok, so I have a bin of water | 00:05 |
| drazak | and the ends of the tubes sticking in, the bin of water has an in tube and an out tube, and also a heater | 00:05 |
| kanzure_ | What sort of gate do you plan on using? I suppose you could use a metal plate attached to a sturdy pin that rotates like a rotating door. | 00:06 |
| * kanzure_ is assuming noncontinuous flow, which probably isn't a good idea. | 00:07 | |
| drazak | the heater brings the tubes up the the first temperature, for denaturation, then to cool it, both servos flip, opening the water gates, water flows in until the thermometer hits the temperature for annealing | 00:07 |
| drazak | timer times, heater comes on for extension temperature, and then repeat 30-40 times | 00:08 |
| drazak | the whole process | 00:08 |
| drazak | then it goes to final extension and hold | 00:08 |
| drazak | and we're done | 00:08 |
| drazak | hook it up to either a computer or a programed atmel chip to execute the program | 00:11 |
| kanzure_ | I suppose what you really need to do is confirm that the temperatures you hit will do what you think it's doing. | 00:11 |
| drazak | nah | 00:12 |
| drazak | it's well documented | 00:12 |
| drazak | the temperatures, that is | 00:12 |
| drazak | there's a few things that change | 00:12 |
| drazak | but that's simple to change | 00:12 |
| kanzure_ | No, I mean your system. | 00:12 |
| drazak | oh | 00:12 |
| kanzure_ | confirmation of functionality and such. | 00:12 |
| drazak | yeah | 00:12 |
| drazak | which is why you have a therister in one of the tubes, measuring the temperature of the reagents | 00:12 |
| drazak | so that you can ignore specific heat | 00:13 |
| kanzure_ | fenn: How does the AA heat the water in the $10 thermocycler? | 00:15 |
| drazak | hm | 00:15 |
| drazak | you know | 00:15 |
| drazak | it would be simpler to simple turn on 2 water pumps | 00:16 |
| drazak | than fuck with servos | 00:16 |
| drazak | you can get cheap water pumps for like $2-5 each | 00:16 |
| kanzure_ | is that so? | 00:16 |
| drazak | yeah | 00:16 |
| drazak | really small ones | 00:16 |
| drazak | but you don't need very big | 00:16 |
| kanzure_ | if you can price out a system for less than $10, I can hook you up with a manufacturing deal | 00:16 |
| drazak | well | 00:16 |
| drazak | it's going to be ~15 | 00:17 |
| drazak | off the top of my head | 00:17 |
| * kanzure_ waves hand in crude attempt at Jedi mind trick, "You want to price it out for under $10." | 00:17 | |
| drazak | you could do it with cheap paint trays | 00:17 |
| drazak | yeah yeah | 00:17 |
| kanzure_ | right | 00:17 |
| drazak | I'm just thinking of how to do it cheaper | 00:17 |
| drazak | so you need 3 paint trays | 00:17 |
| drazak | so there's like 3-4 bucks | 00:18 |
| drazak | I guess you could do it with one water pump | 00:18 |
| drazak | so call it 2 bucks | 00:18 |
| drazak | the water heaters the only expensive thing | 00:18 |
| drazak | I was thinking one for fish tanks | 00:18 |
| drazak | which is like 10-15 | 00:18 |
| kanzure_ | what's so special about this heater? | 00:19 |
| drazak | dunno | 00:19 |
| drazak | thinking about that more | 00:19 |
| drazak | that's a bad idea | 00:19 |
| drazak | because you'd have to rewire it so that it goes hotter | 00:19 |
| kanzure_ | Hrm. I used to blow shit up all the time when soldering. Stuff would heat up without warning. | 00:27 |
| kanzure_ | Find a high emissivity resistor to wire up to a battery, hook that into a slightly larger test tube and submerge the other tube within that one as well. | 00:27 |
| kanzure_ | Water is still good, though maybe not the water heater ;-) | 00:28 |
| drazak | heh, I know how to solder rather well | 00:32 |
| drazak | I design and build my own headphone amps | 00:32 |
| kanzure | It's not a matter of soldering well :-) but rather doing dangerous things with what you're soldering. | 00:35 |
| drazak | nahh | 00:35 |
| drazak | not if you hit it fast | 00:35 |
| drazak | there's a technique behind soldering stuff like that | 00:35 |
| kanzure | No, it's not the soldering that does the Dangerous Thing, it's what you're soldering together that blows up when you turn it on or whatever. | 00:36 |
| drazak | oh, that | 00:36 |
| drazak | :P | 00:36 |
| drazak | thanks knowing electronics | 00:36 |
| drazak | :D | 00:36 |
| kanzure | Hrm? | 00:36 |
| drazak | anyway | 00:37 |
| drazak | it looks like the cheapest water pump online is like 10$ | 00:37 |
| drazak | I swear I bought some for like 3 or 4 though | 00:37 |
| fenn | the idaho thermocycler i used the crap out of was just a fan and a lightbulb (and a microcontroller) | 00:39 |
| drazak | hm | 00:39 |
| fenn | it's the fastest design, because instead of microcentrifuge tubes you use glass capillary tubing, so it has a large surface area to volume ratio | 00:39 |
| drazak | well | 00:40 |
| drazak | water+water heater is faster | 00:40 |
| drazak | get a heater and turn up the power, and you'll be doing good | 00:40 |
| fenn | i think you're wrong about that | 00:40 |
| fenn | water heats by conduction, whereas a lightbulb can heat by IR radiation | 00:41 |
| fenn | the pcr mix had a blue dye in it, which might have absorbed IR but i think it was just so you could see what you're doing | 00:41 |
| drazak | yeah | 00:42 |
| drazak | the blue dye is actually to help with the gel | 00:42 |
| drazak | because it's nto a dye at all | 00:42 |
| drazak | it's bromophenol blue | 00:43 |
| drazak | which is a loading buffer | 00:43 |
| drazak | basically when you're doing the gelling, it moves at the same speed as the dna so that you can see when it's done | 00:44 |
| fenn | btw domestic water heaters have this valve that prevents it from getting hot enough for pcr | 00:44 |
| drazak | oh, that's not the type of heater I was talking about | 00:45 |
| fenn | ok | 00:45 |
| drazak | I meant like a fishtank heater | 00:45 |
| fenn | i like the lightbulb+fan idea | 00:46 |
| fenn | twenty seconds on, twenty off, vroom vroom vroom | 00:46 |
| drazak | eh | 00:47 |
| drazak | I guess | 00:47 |
| drazak | I'd use one of those special bulbs though | 00:47 |
| drazak | or like a 100W bulb | 00:47 |
| fenn | 100W is special? | 00:47 |
| drazak | or | 00:47 |
| drazak | :D | 00:47 |
| drazak | but they make special bulbs for heating stuff | 00:48 |
| fenn | oh, sure | 00:48 |
| fenn | you can get 130V "commercial service" bulbs too, which glow a little dimmer | 00:48 |
| fenn | more IR in the spectrum | 00:48 |
| fenn | not that it matters i guess, since all the light gets converted to heat eventually | 00:48 |
| drazak | what microprocessor? | 00:52 |
| drazak | I can't think of any you can buy for that cheap | 00:52 |
| kanzure | PICs are ridiculously cheap | 00:54 |
| drazak | are they? | 00:54 |
| kanzure | buck fifty? | 00:54 |
| drazak | I don't like the PICs as much as the atmel ones | 00:54 |
| drazak | avr's | 00:54 |
| kanzure | well sure .. but those are going to cost more. | 00:54 |
| * drazak opens his tin of parts | 00:55 | |
| drazak | hmm | 00:55 |
| drazak | I see like 5 or 6 avrs | 00:56 |
| kanzure | screw it | 00:56 |
| kanzure | just hook it up to LTP | 00:56 |
| drazak | yeah | 00:56 |
| drazak | I was thinking about that | 00:56 |
| kanzure_ | or RS232 | 00:56 |
| kanzure | or RS232. | 00:56 |
| kanzure_ | shut up. | 00:56 |
| drazak | I can't program though, so regardless, someone else is going to have to help me write the program | 00:56 |
| drazak | :P | 00:56 |
| kanzure_ | Highly dependent on how friendly your inputs are to the machine. Does the thermometer have a clear protocol for spitting back the current temperature? etc. | 00:57 |
| drazak | if you use a thermistor | 00:58 |
| kanzure_ | if it's wired to an LCD, then the answer is yes, and just remove the LCD and wire it into your boxen | 00:58 |
| drazak | you can just use an a/d converter | 00:58 |
| kanzure_ | ? | 00:58 |
| kanzure_ | analog to digital converter on /what/ ? | 00:58 |
| drazak | a thermistor | 00:58 |
| kanzure_ | How does this work? | 00:58 |
| kanzure_ | surely you don't mean an analog read out to digital ? | 00:58 |
| drazak | a thermistor is basically a resistor that changes resistance based on temperature | 00:59 |
| kanzure_ | oh. nevermind. | 00:59 |
| drazak | :P | 00:59 |
| kanzure_ | Somebody's sending me storage for a few dumps of my collections. | 01:13 |
| kanzure_ | I'm planning on first sending it somewhere else. Who wants? | 01:14 |
| drazak | your music? no thanks | 01:15 |
| kanzure_ | It's not music. | 01:15 |
| kanzure_ | I'm fairly confident that I have a highly desirable collection over here. | 01:16 |
| drazak | porno? | 01:16 |
| kanzure_ | nature | 01:16 |
| drazak | oh :P | 01:16 |
| fenn | atmel AVR's are $0.50-$15 | 01:55 |
| fenn | last time i looked at least | 01:55 |
| fenn | the $2 ones will do just about anything you can ask of a microcontroller | 01:56 |
| fenn | PIC gets a reputation for being cheap because their company will send free samples to anybody no questions asked | 01:57 |
| fenn | how big is nature? | 01:58 |
| kanzure_ | 40 GB but it seems I'm missing some things. For instance, I didn't have that Raman paper. | 01:58 |
| fenn | ookina yu-ni-va-su | 01:58 |
| kanzure_ | ? | 01:58 |
| drazak | kanzure_: what's in nature? | 01:59 |
| kanzure_ | the majority of nature | 01:59 |
| kanzure_ | I have an 8 MB index if you want to see it | 02:00 |
| drazak | do you have any sort of access to published papers/whatnot? | 02:00 |
| drazak | that I could use | 02:00 |
| kanzure_ | ha ha ha | 02:00 |
| kanzure_ | yessir | 02:00 |
| drazak | :D | 02:01 |
| drazak | that'd be awesome | 02:01 |
| fenn | will probably hate this: http://fennetic.net/pub/irc/coppe_8_monologue.mp3 | 02:01 |
| * kanzure_ has been listening to Carlos Santana - Europa for the past I don't know how long | 02:01 | |
| kanzure_ | http://heybryan.org/papersdir_list.txt warning, this is about 8 MB. | 02:02 |
| drazak | how big is the directory with the actual papers? | 02:02 |
| fenn | how many papers? | 02:03 |
| kanzure_ | 122,000 papers | 02:03 |
| kanzure_ | checking with du -h. | 02:03 |
| drazak | kanzure_: du -ckhs is more efficient, fyi | 02:04 |
| kanzure_ | hm. Maybe I meant to upload full_index.txt | 02:04 |
| fenn | du -k and du -h cancel, -k wins? | 02:05 |
| fenn | and -c -s doesnt make sense either | 02:05 |
| drazak | uh | 02:05 |
| drazak | fenn: k doesn't do what you think it does | 02:06 |
| drazak | :D | 02:06 |
| fenn | k reports number of 1k blocks | 02:06 |
| fenn | which screws up -h | 02:06 |
| drazak | wrong! | 02:06 |
| drazak | well | 02:06 |
| drazak | right | 02:06 |
| fenn | enlighten me then, O master of vudu | 02:06 |
| drazak | but h takes preference | 02:06 |
| drazak | hm | 02:06 |
| drazak | using an outdated command | 02:06 |
| fenn | du -chks | 02:07 |
| fenn | 9828 . | 02:07 |
| fenn | 9828 total | 02:07 |
| drazak | that's how you'd do it for coreutils like 9 versions ago | 02:07 |
| drazak | lulz | 02:07 |
| drazak | not on my system | 02:07 |
| drazak | drazak@localhost ~/My Music/NIN $ du -ckhs | 02:07 |
| drazak | 2.2G . | 02:07 |
| drazak | 2.2G total | 02:07 |
| kanzure_ | 130+ GB of music if that counts. Still running. | 02:07 |
| drazak | regardless though, if you want to know how big a directory is, du -ckhs is better, it doesn't print/try to print to standard out if you have a whole bunch of papers | 02:08 |
| kanzure_ | Still going. | 02:11 |
| kanzure_ | It's not listing files yet either. | 02:11 |
| kanzure_ | Had I been smarter I would have preserved some directory structure to the rip. | 02:12 |
| fenn | like volume, issue? | 02:13 |
| kanzure_ | yes | 02:13 |
| fenn | what are the filenames like? | 02:13 |
| kanzure_ | title of the paper | 02:14 |
| drazak | kanzure_: I was hoping some sort of university login or something | 02:14 |
| kanzure_ | drazak: You want me to give you logins? Sorry, I don't do ezproxy trading rings any more .. I tried to trace them to the source once, but that failed. | 02:15 |
| drazak | not what I meant | 02:15 |
| fenn | "00 million pledged to support ex-Soviet science" how generous | 02:15 |
| drazak | but ok! | 02:15 |
| fenn | there's gotta be some way to "slice" huge datasets into different file systems without duplicating the data | 02:17 |
| kanzure_ | 'file systems', split 40 GB into ext2 and ext3 ? | 02:17 |
| fenn | i mean so you can have a big dir full of every paper, and also sorted by volume/issue, and also by field or whatever | 02:18 |
| fenn | and not have to use some crappy SQL server to do it | 02:18 |
| kanzure_ | something better than virtual links? | 02:18 |
| fenn | links would work i guess | 02:18 |
| drazak | kanzure_: why would you split it into ext2 and 3? | 02:19 |
| drazak | the only difference is journaling | 02:19 |
| kanzure_ | trying to understand fenn. | 02:19 |
| drazak | and ext3 generalyl speaking gives better performance | 02:19 |
| kanzure_ | he said 'file system' | 02:19 |
| kanzure_ | so I thought 'file systems'. | 02:19 |
| drazak | oh :P | 02:19 |
| fenn | i meant directory structure | 02:19 |
| fenn | i was thinking " | 02:19 |
| fenn | proc filesystem | 02:19 |
| drazak | lol | 02:20 |
| fenn | why is that funny? | 02:20 |
| fenn | nevermind, trying to explain why something is funny is an exercise in futility | 02:20 |
| drazak | aye | 02:23 |
| fenn | kurzweil has this music generator program that responds to biofeedback | 02:25 |
| fenn | it would be neat to do that with a chatroom | 02:25 |
| kanzure_ | streaming audio server? | 02:25 |
| fenn | often i want to beam music phrases at people but 1) english sucks at that and 2) you'd disrupt whatever the other person was listening to or just the mood in their head | 02:26 |
| kanzure_ | recently I was thinking of a program that would generate european dance music mixes | 02:26 |
| kanzure_ | it's fairly algorithmic to get a beat going, plus plays on samples taken from a library of various snippits of classic songs | 02:26 |
| fenn | as much as i like euro trance i think that's an awful idea | 02:26 |
| kanzure_ | heh | 02:26 |
| fenn | sort of like a markov bot, but with music | 02:27 |
| kanzure_ | sir, are you saying I'm a bad idea? | 02:27 |
| fenn | it's entertaining for about ten minutes | 02:27 |
| kanzure_ | people have called me a markov bot before. | 02:27 |
| kanzure_ | aw. | 02:27 |
| fenn | nothing personal :) | 02:27 |
| fenn | its just sometimes you show an extreme lack of physical groundedness | 02:27 |
| fenn | like the recent discussion on openmanufacturing | 02:28 |
| drazak | aye | 02:28 |
| kanzure_ | arguably I'm more grounded | 02:28 |
| drazak | wellll | 02:28 |
| kanzure_ | note how I've been talking about interfacing with B2B for the material procurement issues | 02:28 |
| drazak | as much as it's ac ool idea, I think that most of the hplus research can't be done in an opensource enviroment | 02:28 |
| kanzure_ | you get your direct realization of materials from bits and bytes, what's not to love about that ? | 02:28 |
| drazak | nto easily, atleast | 02:29 |
| kanzure_ | drazak: eh? | 02:29 |
| fenn | i think he was talking about more of an autonomous ground-up scheme | 02:29 |
| kanzure_ | explain? | 02:29 |
| kanzure_ | fenn: patrick? | 02:29 |
| fenn | rather than trying to interface with businesses etc, just make what you need to spec | 02:29 |
| fenn | yeah | 02:29 |
| kanzure_ | fenn: I don't know why he doesn't call that a design. | 02:29 |
| drazak | kanzure_: well, most of the research takes a lot of money to do it 'right' | 02:29 |
| kanzure_ | "it's not a design! it's reality! rawr" | 02:29 |
| drazak | and if we're not going to do it right, we may as well not do it at all | 02:29 |
| kanzure_ | drazak: Do what, now? | 02:30 |
| fenn | because his vision is exceedingly low-tech and based on tested designs mostly, and he has no idea how to actually implement it (business plan stuff) | 02:30 |
| fenn | it's easy to come up with a business plan when you have a technological advantage, but not so easy when you're digging in the dirt like a medieval subsistence farmer | 02:30 |
| drazak | kanzure_: research bioengineering of the human race in a way that could be applied large scale | 02:30 |
| kanzure_ | is that your understanding of what we've been talking about, drazak? | 02:31 |
| fenn | and so i'm sort of amazed my friend just got a $100k loan to dig in the dirt in bumfuck pennsylvania | 02:31 |
| drazak | kanzure_: well, there's more to it | 02:31 |
| kanzure_ | fenn: building a house? | 02:31 |
| fenn | farming | 02:31 |
| drazak | but imo to do the research, you may as well do it right, and I'm all for finding out a way to come up with a low cost solution | 02:31 |
| kanzure_ | solution to what? | 02:32 |
| drazak | solution to research tools | 02:32 |
| kanzure_ | You're being vague :-) | 02:32 |
| drazak | aye | 02:32 |
| fenn | 'solution to research tools' wtf does that mean | 02:32 |
| fenn | like "how to do PCR without paying invitrogen $50/pop"? | 02:33 |
| kanzure_ | fenn: but he was talking about overall goals and projects, | 02:33 |
| kanzure_ | so I'm wondering what he thinks those are | 02:33 |
| drazak | solution to lack of research tools/supplies | 02:33 |
| kanzure_ | human race engineering or whatever seems like a peculiar answer | 02:33 |
| kanzure_ | it's not a wrong answer, just something I wanted to poke at | 02:33 |
| drazak | it's part of the impression I got from the biohack site | 02:34 |
| fenn | in the history of science, there was no supplier that magically created analytical tools out of thin air | 02:34 |
| fenn | people had to come up with their own designs and build them with what they had | 02:34 |
| fenn | now we just have a big patent snarl | 02:35 |
| drazak | fenn: aye, but most of the tools needed for research in molecular biology and whatnot have already been made | 02:35 |
| drazak | they're just expensive | 02:35 |
| fenn | time to move to guptastan I say | 02:35 |
| kanzure_ | drazak: yes, a big part of Things in general is bootstrapping tools. | 02:35 |
| fenn | i find it odd that smari is whining about people bringing in unidentified plastic, but nobody is working on fablab-DIY chemical analysis tools | 02:38 |
| fenn | what the heck do they make in these fablabs if not better fablab tools? | 02:38 |
| kanzure_ | in the cities and the US, I don't know | 02:38 |
| kanzure_ | but supposedly Gershenfeld has these in third world countries | 02:39 |
| drazak | kanzure_: I get the impression that transhumanism is about making humans and therefor humanity better | 02:39 |
| kanzure_ | and theoretically they're making 'useful stuff' ? | 02:39 |
| fenn | useful stuff is like, radio transponders for sheep, or milk dilution testers | 02:39 |
| kanzure_ | drazak: btw, you can ignore the title of the channel. that's leftovers because everybody keeps showing up here. | 02:39 |
| kanzure_ | drazak: but yes, that'd be nice. | 02:39 |
| fenn | gershenfeld goes on and on about "the analytical divide" but its in his own labs if you ask me | 02:40 |
| drazak | then what is the general goal of the channel | 02:40 |
| fenn | the same goal of every channel | 02:40 |
| fenn | ... to try and take over the world! | 02:40 |
| fenn | it's true, dont try to deny it | 02:41 |
| willPow3r_ | dan dennett is so jittery when he speaks | 02:41 |
| willPow3r_ | its hard to follow what he says sometimes | 02:41 |
| kanzure_ | It would be interesting but pointless to say the goal is improvement. | 02:42 |
| drazak | aye | 02:42 |
| kanzure_ | I'm not sure we can prescribe a goal | 02:42 |
| fenn | based on the channel name i think the idea is to come up with a way to get to various types of improved states of being | 02:44 |
| fenn | way/ways | 02:44 |
| fenn | for instance, i want to see in radio to x-ray spectrum | 02:44 |
| drazak | no thanks | 02:45 |
| fenn | so that's part of why i'm obsessed with wearables | 02:45 |
| kanzure_ | I'm not sure if we can go by the channel name any more. | 02:45 |
| fenn | kanzure_: too "mission oriented" for you? | 02:45 |
| fenn | at least we arent talking about taxes or communism | 02:46 |
| drazak | I'm trying to come up with a goal for my own research | 02:46 |
| drazak | that's acheivable in ~6 months | 02:46 |
| fenn | come up with a goal that's not achievable in 6 months | 02:46 |
| fenn | then try to do something related | 02:47 |
| fenn | you might even get tenure if you repeat that enough times | 02:47 |
| drazak | heh | 02:47 |
| * fenn sulks | 02:47 | |
| drazak | you do know I'm 15, yeah? | 02:47 |
| drazak | s/15/16 | 02:47 |
| kanzure_ | too old. | 02:47 |
| fenn | don't pigeonhole yourself | 02:47 |
| fenn | the only reason young people don't play a more active role in society is they get sent to sensory-deprivation prisons for 15 years | 02:48 |
| drazak | fenn: this is why I'm trying to teach myself a whole bunch of stuff :) | 02:48 |
| drazak | I worked my way through ochem 1 and 2 recently | 02:48 |
| drazak | learning biochemistry atm | 02:48 |
| kanzure_ | fenn: so, yes, it does sound almost too mission oriented. | 02:49 |
| kanzure_ | recall the issues in recursive self-improvement. | 02:49 |
| fenn | kanzure_: do you not believe in the concept of "improvement" now? | 02:50 |
| kanzure_ | people still trying to figure out how to quantify improvement | 02:50 |
| fenn | we can very easily quantify some types of improvement | 02:50 |
| fenn | heck there's even a world happiness index | 02:50 |
| kanzure_ | I could possibly go for some computational optimization big o notation arguments on certain types of improvements. | 02:50 |
| fenn | 0 cpu cycles is the best kind of algorithm | 02:51 |
| fenn | (translation: people do a lot of useless crap) | 02:51 |
| kanzure_ | O'Neill habitats, or even O'Neill habitats without the "in space" aspect, is where it's at -- it's not a platform necessarily for improvement, but if improvement or beneficial mutation does occur, it can be harnessed and repeated. | 02:51 |
| fenn | luf is all about the ocean habitats, and the more i think about it the more i realize that the moon would be a lot easier to colonize | 02:52 |
| kanzure_ | fenn: easier than the ocean? | 02:52 |
| fenn | (if only we had a rotovator) | 02:52 |
| gene | rotovator? | 02:52 |
| fenn | well, two rotovators, one for earth and one for luna | 02:52 |
| gene | oh yeah | 02:52 |
| gene | I remember now | 02:52 |
| fenn | momentum exchange tethers | 02:53 |
| gene | you might be able to dig a hole in the moon if you get your lunar rotovator just right | 02:53 |
| fenn | i think the objective is to not crash into the moon :) | 02:53 |
| gene | but if you but a shovel on one end ans spin it fast enough... | 02:54 |
| fenn | just fill plastic bags with the loose dust that's everywhere on luna | 02:54 |
| gene | yup | 02:54 |
| fenn | then the tether comes down and picks up the bag | 02:54 |
| gene | and sell it on earth as genuine moon dust! | 02:54 |
| fenn | hah, sell it in orbit as genuine space colony materials | 02:55 |
| gene | that too | 02:55 |
| fenn | or use it to re-boost your earth rotovator | 02:55 |
| gene | yeah | 02:55 |
| gene | or shoot it at the earth's atmosphere for a continuous fireworks show | 02:56 |
| fenn | most people dont realize that lava tubes are kilometers in diameter on luna | 02:57 |
| gene | KILOMETERS? | 02:57 |
| fenn | yep | 02:57 |
| gene | you're kidding | 02:57 |
| gene | damn | 02:57 |
| fenn | low gravity | 02:57 |
| gene | great place to build a house | 02:57 |
| fenn | you can see some collapsed tubes, um, hadley rille maybe is one of them? | 02:59 |
| kanzure_ | fenn: so, back on topic | 02:59 |
| kanzure_ | where were we. | 02:59 |
| kanzure_ | were we making me declare a goal or something? | 02:59 |
| drazak | maybe | 03:00 |
| drazak | :D | 03:00 |
| fenn | i think you were trying to clear out the cruft accumulating in the topic | 03:00 |
| kanzure_ | in the /topic ? | 03:00 |
| gene | goal | 03:01 |
| gene | to make a self-replicating automaton | 03:01 |
| bkero | I'll tubes your topic. | 03:01 |
| kanzure_ | gene: That's not the meta-goal. | 03:01 |
| kanzure_ | gene: The kinematic self-replicating machine work is a subset of some others. | 03:01 |
| gene | please specify meta goal | 03:02 |
| kanzure_ | fenn: feel free to moderate the /topic I guess. | 03:02 |
| kanzure_ | Everyone has known my own personal goals for a while now .. that simple "to do as much as possible" phrase. | 03:03 |
| gene | specify goal | 03:03 |
| gene | to make a replicator validator program? | 03:03 |
| fenn | self replicating machines are useful for effectively eliminating most economic costs | 03:03 |
| fenn | but then what to do with them? | 03:03 |
| kanzure_ | fenn: That's not the way that we stumbled upon them. | 03:04 |
| gene | what do you mean what to do with them | 03:04 |
| fenn | i want to build giant structures in space to communicate with the zodiac, but i dont expect anyone else to share that goal | 03:04 |
| gene | solve world hunger, make dyson spheres, make cheesecakes the size of cities | 03:04 |
| fenn | yes, cheesecakes, the size of cities | 03:04 |
| kanzure_ | The reason why I refuse to specify goals so clearly any more is because of my previous involvement in that goal cult. | 03:05 |
| fenn | kanzure_: it's the way i stumbled upon them | 03:05 |
| fenn | kanzure_: have you seen the price tag on a new lathe? | 03:05 |
| kanzure_ | fenn: In our discussions in here, specifically, we started from talk about things other than replicators, and then arrived at replicators. That's what I meant. | 03:05 |
| kanzure_ | Wait. Maybe not. /me doesn't know his history. | 03:06 |
| fenn | hm the new lathe argument doesn't work so well with all the cheap tools from china now available | 03:06 |
| kanzure_ | Argument for what? | 03:06 |
| fenn | but they used to be like $8000 | 03:06 |
| fenn | so it was worth taking the time to build one from scratch | 03:06 |
| fenn | and then i realized that there was just all this stuff laying around, and you just had to put it together right | 03:06 |
| fenn | but the lathe is mostly self-generating, so how far could you stretch that concept | 03:07 |
| kanzure_ | fenn: I seem to recall us moving to talks about replicators after talk about 'improvement'. | 03:07 |
| gene_ | what the heck just happened | 03:07 |
| fenn | i seem to recall you found me because of the gingery machines wiki | 03:07 |
| fenn | or something like that | 03:08 |
| kanzure_ | hrm, that's right. | 03:08 |
| kanzure_ | So maybe it was just replicators from the go. Huh. | 03:08 |
| fenn | anyway, i was working on airmuscles for an exoskeleton or some such | 03:08 |
| fenn | so it's not like i was just pimping my chevy | 03:08 |
| drazak | hm | 03:10 |
| kanzure_ | drazak: This was recent and might point to a few things: http://heybryan.org/bootstrapping_personal_fabrication.html | 03:11 |
| kanzure_ | I sent an email to Michel once that talked about 'supply chain length minimization' (I am program, programmer and that which is programmed) | 03:12 |
| kanzure_ | That phrase has relations to http://heybryan.org/recursion.html 'course. | 03:13 |
| drazak | hm | 03:15 |
| drazak | I need to learn more about synthesizing primers | 03:15 |
| kanzure_ | http://heybryan.org/fractal.html was a partial elaboration about springboarding via philanthropical bootstrapping to get to stable points of functionality in large scale systems (like, say, O'Neill habitats, or civilizations in the sense that Kevin Kelly talks about re: civilizations-as-an-organism) | 03:15 |
| kanzure_ | drazak: http://primerfox.com/ | 03:16 |
| drazak | I wonder if there's a way eventually to synthesize bacteria to make commonly used primers | 03:16 |
| kanzure_ | http://heybryan.org/mediawiki/index.php/DNA_synthesizer for oligonucleotide synthesis instructions | 03:16 |
| gene_ | FURRY ALERT | 03:16 |
| kanzure_ | drazak: Yes, there is. | 03:16 |
| kanzure_ | drazak: Consider wrapping the primers in the plasmid or bacterial genome with endonuclease recognition sites. | 03:16 |
| kanzure_ | And then just have bacteria that manufacture the endonucleases, and purify those. | 03:17 |
| gene_ | what's a primer? | 03:17 |
| kanzure_ | That's the idea of http://heybryan.org/new_exp.html the do-it-yourself bioreactor project. | 03:17 |
| drazak | not wha I was thinkig at all | 03:17 |
| drazak | hold on | 03:17 |
| kanzure_ | gene_: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polymerase_chain_reaction PCR requires primers so that polymerase knows where to start replicating. | 03:17 |
| drazak | let me grabthe word | 03:17 |
| kanzure_ | s/replicating/copying/ | 03:18 |
| fenn | oh my god, your nick is "gene" and you dont know what a primer is? | 03:18 |
| gene_ | I thought primers were the nucleotides not the sequence you want to copy | 03:18 |
| drazak | ahh, plasmid is the word | 03:18 |
| drazak | yeah | 03:18 |
| drazak | kanzure_: plasmids would definitely be a way to do it, I'd think | 03:19 |
| * fenn is cranky, must be time for bed | 03:19 | |
| kanzure_ | Sure, but you still need to have a supply of endonucleases. | 03:19 |
| kanzure_ | fenn: but we're not done | 03:19 |
| drazak | kanzure_: are plasmids replicated in bacterial cell division? | 03:19 |
| kanzure_ | drazak: Sort of. I recall that they 'drop off'. They are not multimeiosis-cyclic-stable. | 03:20 |
| kanzure_ | Erm. | 03:20 |
| drazak | hm | 03:20 |
| kanzure_ | fenn etc - are you guys really going to hold me for a 'goal' ? | 03:20 |
| drazak | that's a flawed way to do it then | 03:20 |
| fenn | i like google's "dont be evil" | 03:21 |
| fenn | but that's not a goal | 03:22 |
| kanzure_ | whatta about my energy useage maximization principle? | 03:22 |
| kanzure_ | "Do as much as possible with as little as possible, until I can do everything with nothing at all" | 03:22 |
| fenn | why would you want to use energy? | 03:22 |
| fenn | right | 03:22 |
| gene_ | I think you mean minimization | 03:22 |
| kanzure_ | No, I do not mean minimization. | 03:22 |
| kanzure_ | No point in being idle. | 03:22 |
| gene_ | ok | 03:22 |
| gene_ | I see what you mean | 03:22 |
| fenn | bucky fuller called this technological growth process 'ephemeralization' | 03:23 |
| kanzure_ | and Max More calls it 'entropy' | 03:23 |
| kanzure_ | erm | 03:23 |
| kanzure_ | 'extropy | 03:23 |
| kanzure_ | Fuck. | 03:23 |
| fenn | the word extropy is too bound up in philosophy | 03:23 |
| fenn | cell phones are generally not considered "extropic" are they? | 03:24 |
| gene | whoa | 03:24 |
| kanzure_ | I don't know about that generally, but I would consider them extropic, yes. | 03:24 |
| gene | something weird is going on | 03:24 |
| fenn | your connection is flaky | 03:25 |
| gene | I keep losing my connection to the irc server | 03:25 |
| gene | or my kinematic modellor could be messing it up | 03:25 |
| kanzure_ | Lots of relations to the constructal theory too -- the points of suboptimization are construed to the nodes in the system, i.e. cell phone users, see how much they hate their interfaces (little keys, not a lot of memory, and yet ..). <- I'm screwing this up a bit, but I'm too lazy to figure out how at the moment. | 03:25 |
| kanzure_ | Something about natural systems organizing such that all of the choices that you'd rather not make are made by the individual agents, i.e. an individual router ends up having to choose where to send packets to instead of global routing protocols. | 03:26 |
| kanzure_ | Anyway. | 03:26 |
| fenn | stigmergy | 03:26 |
| gene | just do it | 03:26 |
| gene | damn | 03:27 |
| gene | kinematic modeller isn't liking my geometry at all | 03:27 |
| drazak | kanzure_: I meant for making my own primers chemically | 03:28 |
| drazak | kanzure_: as in building the sequence | 03:28 |
| kanzure_ | Yes, that's nucleotide synthesis via oligonucleotide synthesis. | 03:28 |
| kanzure_ | Oh, do you mean to start with pre-made dNTPs? | 03:29 |
| drazak | no | 03:29 |
| gene | what about the nucleotides? | 03:29 |
| fenn | start with nitrogen, oxygen, carbon, phorphorus, hydrogen? | 03:29 |
| drazak | fenn: not... really | 03:30 |
| fenn | or maybe just a big ball of undifferentiated energy | 03:30 |
| drazak | fenn: synthesis of nucleotide chains | 03:30 |
| kanzure_ | I'm pretty sure the oligonucleotide synthesis stuff works for that, drazak. | 03:30 |
| drazak | ok | 03:30 |
| drazak | yep, didn't know it was a different word | 03:31 |
| drazak | :) | 03:31 |
| fenn | standard oligo stuff is only good for 25-50bp; how do they do those 3kbp sequences? | 03:31 |
| kanzure_ | ligation? | 03:31 |
| gene | Deinococcus radiotolerans DNA repair complex? | 03:32 |
| gene | use sticky ends? | 03:32 |
| fenn | but you'd have the same error rate, unless they somehow amplified single strands and checked each one | 03:32 |
| kanzure_ | I doubt they check. | 03:32 |
| fenn | it's not damaged dna, you just get the wrong sequence | 03:32 |
| gene | that's what the Deinococcus radiotolerans DNA repair complex does | 03:33 |
| fenn | they'd have to check, otherwise they'd have the same error rate as if they just made a big oligo from scratch | 03:33 |
| gene | it puts two sticky ends together | 03:33 |
| gene | if some of the nucleotides don't match then it replaces them | 03:33 |
| fenn | gene: this is single strand synthesis | 03:33 |
| kanzure_ | gene: That's not what we're talking about. | 03:33 |
| kanzure_ | http://mrgene.com/ | 03:34 |
| kanzure_ | http://e-oligos.com/ | 03:34 |
| gene | yeah | 03:34 |
| fenn | there is no other strand to check against | 03:34 |
| gene | but you can synth a bunch of small strands such that they all overlap | 03:34 |
| gene | and then have the repair complex check em | 03:34 |
| gene | venter's doing it | 03:34 |
| kanzure_ | The repair complex checks complementary strands. | 03:35 |
| gene | to compile his organisms | 03:35 |
| kanzure_ | There is no complementary strand here. | 03:35 |
| fenn | gene: do you have a link explaining this process? | 03:35 |
| gene | fuck wrong bacteria | 03:35 |
| gene | I meant to say deinococcus radiodurans | 03:36 |
| fenn | that's how i read it anyway | 03:36 |
| gene | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deinococcus_radiodurans | 03:37 |
| kanzure_ | gene: On Monday I can give you a linux disc. | 03:37 |
| gene | good | 03:37 |
| gene | vista has pissed me off | 03:37 |
| gene | so deinococcus checks it genome against multiple copies | 03:38 |
| kanzure_ | Yes, so that's definitely not what we're talking about. | 03:38 |
| gene | then what are you talking about single strand synthesis? | 03:39 |
| fenn | i can see how this would work, since you get to 'vote' on the correct nucleotide | 03:40 |
| gene | yeah | 03:40 |
| gene | I think it's sorta like that | 03:40 |
| gene | I haven't read many radioresistance papers in a while | 03:41 |
| fenn | i guess i should just watch venter's ted talk instead of fighting with google | 03:41 |
| gene | nah | 03:41 |
| gene | I don't think venter says much about it in the ted talk either | 03:41 |
| gene | I believe he just puts the dna in deinococcus | 03:42 |
| gene | or something like that | 03:42 |
| fenn | well here's a protocol, doesnt really answer my questions: http://books.google.com/books?id=8x02velGjKMC&pg=PA374&lpg=PA374&dq=overlapping+oligo+synthesis&source=web&ots=dCVC6hCYB8&sig=jY18FQL4BEE-VCKtFtQn3wCm2H8&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=5&ct=result | 03:43 |
| fenn | 'screening isolates by cloning and sequencing' is basically what i meant by having to check each oligo | 03:44 |
| kanzure_ | right | 03:44 |
| fenn | 450 is much better than 50 | 03:45 |
| gene | so how do we synth enough to make a protein | 03:49 |
| gene | like a fancy polymerase | 03:49 |
| kanzure_ | what are you on about now | 03:50 |
| fenn | matter compiling | 03:50 |
| gene | heh | 03:50 |
| fenn | chicken and egg problem | 03:50 |
| gene | you've read The Diamond Age haven't you fenn | 03:50 |
| fenn | yep, but i had the idea first :P | 03:50 |
| fenn | so you just repeat the 'clone and sequence (and ligate)' process until you have a long enough sequence | 03:52 |
| gene | guess so | 03:52 |
| fenn | you can do lots in parallel of course | 03:52 |
| fenn | so all the next-gen sequencing stuff hleps | 03:52 |
| drazak | I think I need to read more, to understand more for all of this | 03:54 |
| fenn | mumble mumble microfluidics array grumble | 03:54 |
| kanzure_ | drazak: this? | 03:54 |
| drazak | kanzure_: not /this/ | 03:54 |
| drazak | but biochemistry in general :P | 03:54 |
| kanzure_ | then that? | 03:54 |
| kanzure_ | oh | 03:54 |
| drazak | I'm gonna grab my text and a soda and dig in :P | 03:54 |
| gene | you can make microfluidics with shrinky dinks | 03:54 |
| fenn | so they say | 03:55 |
| fenn | i mean, um, that's what she said, or something | 03:55 |
| gene | high quality microfluidics | 03:55 |
| gene | that don't have metal | 03:55 |
| gene | unfortunately | 03:55 |
| fenn | metal? | 03:56 |
| gene | for pumping | 03:56 |
| fenn | can't you just squeeze them? :) | 03:57 |
| gene | no | 03:57 |
| gene | not if you want to do it fast | 03:58 |
| fenn | ultrasonics + valvular conduits | 04:01 |
| gene | maybe | 04:01 |
| fenn | magnetorhelogical fluid | 04:01 |
| fenn | magnetohydrodynamic thrusters! | 04:02 |
| gene | then you have ions | 04:02 |
| drazak | magnetobacteria! | 04:02 |
| gene | hmmm | 04:02 |
| gene | you mean like bacto ferrofluid? | 04:02 |
| fenn | "Magnetobacteria are gram-negative proteobacteria that use flagella to swim." | 04:03 |
| drazak | aye | 04:04 |
| drazak | they're also anaerobic, iirc | 04:04 |
| fenn | caulobacter have this anchor thing to stick to any surface, and they also have flagellae | 04:04 |
| gene | and have tiny magnetite magnetosomes | 04:04 |
| fenn | so you could use some mutant caulobacteria as a cilium | 04:04 |
| gene | then you have contamination | 04:04 |
| gene | but it is an interesting concept | 04:05 |
| fenn | i feel a weakness coming on | 04:07 |
| gene | did you accidently a whole bottle of coke? | 04:13 |
| willPow3r_ | omg | 04:14 |
| willPow3r_ | /b/tard | 04:14 |
| gene | no | 04:14 |
| gene | I don't go to /b/ | 04:14 |
| gene | I never go to b | 04:14 |
| willPow3r_ | neither do i | 04:16 |
| gene | good | 04:16 |
| gene | never goto /b/ | 04:17 |
| willPow3r_ | because goto is bad programming practice | 04:17 |
| willPow3r_ | b/tard :Unknown comman | 04:20 |
| willPow3r_ | xchat is funny | 04:20 |
| ybit | "[Sat Oct 11 2008] [19:05:33] <drazak>ok, so I have a bin of water" -- last log saved until someone in the family wanted to play around on here while i was showering. yes, i bathe | 04:38 |
| drazak | haha | 04:38 |
| ybit | so, anyone mind linking to a logfile maybe? | 04:38 |
| bkero | http://www.boingboing.net/2008/09/23/what-went-wrong.html | 04:42 |
| drazak | hm | 04:53 |
| drazak | it seems most of these methods | 04:53 |
| drazak | are for large scale oligonucleotide synthesis | 04:54 |
| ybit | so, nothing interesting? | 04:55 |
| ybit | or nothing at all... | 04:55 |
| kanzure_ | ybit lots has happened. | 05:12 |
| kanzure_ | unfortunately, I'm not logging from this box | 05:12 |
| ybit | oOokay | 05:16 |
| gene | hey one of the oligosynth websites says you get a free gift with every order | 05:17 |
| gene | wonder what it could be? | 05:17 |
| gene | coupons? | 05:17 |
| gene | Centrifuge? | 05:17 |
| gene | enzymes? | 05:18 |
| gene | ep tubes? | 05:18 |
| gene | guess we'll never know | 05:18 |
| gene | cus' we're doing it ourself | 05:19 |
| kanzure_ | http://web.archive.org/web/20060615181106/http://www.bizdex.com.au/ "National interoperability framework" holy shit I'm moving to Australia. | 05:40 |
| kanzure_ | Hey, trade tariffs on unmetadatetized materials. | 05:49 |
| kanzure_ | better yet, trade tariffs on companies that refuse to do the whole open UDDI B2B ebXML trick | 05:52 |
| gene | SWEET | 05:58 |
| gene | hey kanzure is there any way I can use my laptop as a display for another computer | 05:58 |
| kanzure_ | Desktop-over-the-network, rewire the LCD, probably a few other methods I'm forgetting. | 05:59 |
| gene | damn | 05:59 |
| gene | I ain't rewiring this laptop | 06:00 |
| gene | it's new | 06:00 |
| kanzure_ | Then do network-over-the-desktop. | 06:00 |
| gene | nevermind | 06:01 |
| gene | so could you help convert me to linux | 06:03 |
| gene | on monday? | 06:03 |
| gene | the hard drive partitioning is the part I am not familiar with | 06:04 |
| willPow3r_ | gene, tried vnc? | 06:05 |
| gene | no | 06:05 |
| kanzure_ | Partitioning is done by the installation wizards, but first you should run 'disk defragmentation' so that you don't have files in weird places. | 06:05 |
| gene | good | 06:06 |
| kanzure_ | Anyway, it's a good idea to do a full backup of anything important. | 06:06 |
| gene | ok | 06:06 |
| gene | that's easy | 06:06 |
| gene | I don't have much important stuff | 06:06 |
| gene | beside programs | 06:06 |
| gene | the thing that really annoys me about vista right now is that solidworks will try to start up at some random time | 06:07 |
| gene | but it can't | 06:07 |
| drazak | So, I really want to research gap junctions and stuff | 06:07 |
| drazak | but I'm nowhere near equiped to do that | 06:07 |
| gene | so it crashes | 06:07 |
| gene | what are gap functions? | 06:07 |
| gene | programming related or biology or other? | 06:08 |
| gene | oh | 06:09 |
| gene | biology related | 06:09 |
| drazak | gap junctions are how certain cells can preform a 'docking' process and exchange fluids | 06:09 |
| drazak | it's done with connexin proteins | 06:09 |
| gene | oh | 06:09 |
| gene | that's definately cool stuff | 06:09 |
| drazak | aye | 06:09 |
| drazak | a teacher at my highschool did 1.5 years of research on it | 06:09 |
| gene | get a bunch of cells to link up | 06:09 |
| drazak | before he lost funding | 06:09 |
| drazak | wellll | 06:09 |
| drazak | it's a lot more complicated than that | 06:10 |
| drazak | ;) | 06:10 |
| gene | make a circulatory system of sorts | 06:10 |
| drazak | nope | 06:10 |
| gene | of sorts | 06:10 |
| drazak | doesn't work like that | 06:10 |
| gene | ok | 06:10 |
| gene | dna exchange? | 06:11 |
| gene | like in bacteria? | 06:11 |
| gene | or are you talking about something in eukaryotes | 06:11 |
| drazak | http://www.jbc.org/cgi/content/abstract/277/39/36725 | 06:11 |
| drazak | eukaryotes | 06:11 |
| drazak | that's actually the paper my teacher wrote | 06:13 |
| gene | dang | 06:13 |
| gene | then again | 06:13 |
| gene | they also cut off the guy who had the idea of using GFP for signalling | 06:13 |
| gene | so cells can exchange ATP? | 06:18 |
| drazak | aye | 06:18 |
| gene | interesting | 06:18 |
| drazak | I'm going to ask him tuesday if he ever discovered why ATP is transgered so much better by connexin 43 than by connexin 32 | 06:18 |
| gene | reminds me of how modular robots distribute power among themselves | 06:19 |
| drazak | heh | 06:19 |
| gene | wonder if cells do it for the same reason | 06:21 |
| drazak | no idea | 06:21 |
| drazak | we don't even know what causes gap junction docking to happen | 06:22 |
| drazak | whether or not there's a receptor or what | 06:22 |
| gene | well then | 06:22 |
| drazak | yeah | 06:22 |
| gene | stress up some cells and watch them under a microscope | 06:22 |
| drazak | well | 06:22 |
| drazak | it's more than that | 06:22 |
| drazak | but yeah | 06:22 |
| drazak | there's like 23 types of connexins that have to do with gap junction dockings | 06:23 |
| gene | get a cell to use up it's atp | 06:23 |
| drazak | and certain ones are classified certain ways | 06:23 |
| drazak | as in that it only talks to other cells with that class of connexin | 06:23 |
| gene | interesting | 06:24 |
| gene | that might be useful for say growing organs | 06:24 |
| gene | do you know if kidney cells have connexins? | 06:24 |
| drazak | probably | 06:25 |
| drazak | I don't know a ton about it | 06:25 |
| drazak | :P | 06:25 |
| gene | kidney's require a lot of structure | 06:25 |
| gene | might be easy to see if connexins help cells organise | 06:25 |
| drazak | I have /no/ idea dude | 06:26 |
| kanzure_ | You're doing it wrong. | 06:26 |
| * kanzure_ goes away. | 06:26 | |
| gene | Am I? | 06:26 |
| gene | how am I doing it wrong? | 06:26 |
| * drazak reads the full text | 06:30 | |
| gene | got a question for anyone out there | 06:33 |
| gene | how do you purify proteins | 06:33 |
| kanzure_ | Antisomethings. | 06:34 |
| gene | antibodies | 06:35 |
| gene | damn | 06:35 |
| gene | how do you make the antibodies? | 06:35 |
| gene | inject the protein into a mouse? | 06:36 |
| drazak | no | 06:37 |
| drazak | that's not how | 06:37 |
| kanzure_ | Recombination + selection experiments. | 06:39 |
| kanzure_ | Kind of like aptamers IIRC. | 06:39 |
| gene | ah | 06:39 |
| gene | so is protein purification something that can be done by an amateur | 06:40 |
| drazak | http://buffalo.craigslist.org/sys/831245536.html | 07:38 |
| drazak | I just offered him $50-100 | 07:39 |
| * willPow3r_ just installed 2nd life | 10:01 | |
| willPow3r_ | hope its not as gay as wow | 10:01 |
| hjkl | its useless | 10:07 |
| willPow3r_ | whys that | 10:23 |
| willPow3r_ | my guy has a gay ass hairdo and i can't seem to change it | 10:23 |
| willPow3r_ | 2nd life is soo so lame. | 12:13 |
| bkero | Second life is so lame. | 15:35 |
| hjkl | life is so lame. | 15:36 |
| hjkl | ^^ | 15:36 |
| ybit | lame | 15:43 |
| bkero | UR so lame | 15:43 |
| ybit | :D | 15:43 |
| pppk | but dude, michio kaku loved teh second life | 15:43 |
| pppk | can't be that bad | 15:43 |
| bkero | OpenOffice 3 is going to be released tomorrow. | 15:43 |
| bkero | It's on the FTPs already though. | 15:43 |
| * ybit needs to create a bot which mentions Lite Sm everytime Second Life is brought up | 15:49 | |
| bkero | Lite Sm? | 15:50 |
| ybit | https://www.litesim.com | 15:51 |
| ybit | not as bloated | 15:51 |
| ybit | and it is foss | 15:51 |
| bkero | lol | 15:51 |
| ybit | you laugh because you, my friend, are lame ;) | 15:52 |
| bkero | Vrey lame | 15:52 |
| bkero | Of considerable lamitude | 15:52 |
| ybit | hehe | 15:52 |
| fenn | whatever happened to VRML | 15:58 |
| fenn | hmm i wonder what is litesim's target market | 15:59 |
| fenn | and why is it $24.99/mo? | 16:01 |
| fenn | this is bad architecture: "By default all regions and grids are linked with the supergrid - a set of services which enable centralised management of all the grids and regions we host and centralised login." | 16:02 |
| ybit | they don't allow direc connections to the lsmainisland due to security concerns, but you can setup your own grid and link it to the main grid to allow avatar migration | 16:40 |
| fenn | matweb says nothing about engineered basalt :( | 17:40 |
| fenn | here's a gem from the past: http://fennetic.net/pub/irc/replicator_notebook.jpg | 18:53 |
| fenn | first attempt at supply chain minimization | 18:53 |
| willPow3r | kinda | 19:41 |
| willPow3r | wrong window sry | 19:41 |
| willPow3r | x-mouse can lead to "wtf where the hell did my text go... oh, fuck..." moments | 19:42 |
| fenn | remember to document blatantly obvious things in case one day you will be reading your lab notebook and be wondering wtf you were trying to do | 20:59 |
| kanzure_ | context? | 21:00 |
| kanzure_ | also, sleeping sucks | 21:00 |
| fenn | me looking at my old research notebook, procrastinating resume writing etc | 21:00 |
| fenn | also, how am i supposed to send a letter of recommendation electronically without looking at it? | 21:01 |
| fenn | there's no such thing as a"digital sealed envelope" | 21:01 |
| kanzure_ | what if they just so happen to have their PGP key? | 21:02 |
| fenn | "they" probably dont know what a PGP key is, and "the other they" doesnt have one | 21:03 |
| kanzure | Hey, is that Deepak? | 21:26 |
| ybit | http://www.osaerospace.com/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=Linkdumps -- neat | 21:28 |
| ybit | anyone know of a spacecraft design far along? | 21:28 |
| kanzure | Isn't that me? | 21:28 |
| kanzure | There's no zip file to my knowledge that I can just hand you, no. | 21:28 |
| fenn | what do you mean "spacecraft design"? | 21:29 |
| ybit | something similar to http://www.asi.org/adb/04/02/spacecraft-info.html | 21:30 |
| kanzure | Yay Artemis Society. | 21:30 |
| kanzure | http://moo.asi.org/ has some giants in the industry in there. Just FYI. :) | 21:30 |
| kanzure | Wife of Goddard or something :p | 21:31 |
| * fenn trembles in awe | 21:31 | |
| drazak | hey, the ligands interacting with signal receptors and ion channels on cells are not the organometallic ligands, right? | 21:32 |
| fenn | "the organometallic ligands"? | 21:32 |
| fenn | organometallic just means it has a metal ion stuck to it, but those are usually used for metabolism/catabolism | 21:33 |
| drazak | right, but those are different ligands, right? | 21:33 |
| drazak | but when you talk abotu organometallic interactions, you talk about ligands | 21:34 |
| fenn | i suppose | 21:34 |
| fenn | proteins can interact with metal ions too | 21:34 |
| drazak | right | 21:35 |
| drazak | but: | 21:35 |
| fenn | um, here's an example: EDTA is an organometallic ligand if it picks up some metal ion | 21:35 |
| drazak | "Cells also have surgace membrane proteins (signal receptors) that present highly specific binding sites for extracellular signall moleculse (receptor ligands). When an external ligand bonds to its specific receptor, the receptor protein transduces teh signal carried by the ligand into an intracellular message. | 21:36 |
| fenn | oh, that just means the molecule that binds to the signal receptor | 21:37 |
| drazak | right | 21:37 |
| fenn | ligand = binder, in latin | 21:37 |
| fenn | or something like that | 21:37 |
| drazak | ah ok | 21:37 |
| drazak | I don't know much latin | 21:37 |
| fenn | me either | 21:37 |
| fenn | can anyone here unstuff .sit files? | 21:40 |
| kanzure | is it a compression format? | 22:03 |
| kanzure | I have some illegal software in the lab that uncompresses nearly everything known to man | 22:03 |
| fenn | yes it's some old macintosh format | 22:08 |
| pppk | what's the software called bryan? | 22:08 |
| kanzure | stuffit | 22:10 |
| fenn | well it's here if anyone wants to give it a shot.. i'm not sure exactly what's in here: http://fennetic.net/pub/irc/Ben.sit | 22:14 |
| fenn | i'm hoping its my old lab reports | 22:15 |
| pppk | I can't stand the suspense | 22:39 |
| pppk | what's in it? | 22:39 |
| fenn | pppk: i would certainly like to find out! | 22:43 |
| kanzure | so the algOS guy wants to hook up with me | 22:43 |
| fenn | it's really amazing how little i remember from what i ostensibly learned in college | 22:44 |
| fenn | i'm reading all these old emails and while i remember the people, i have no idea what i'm talking about | 22:44 |
| kanzure | for instance? | 22:46 |
| kanzure | random ranting? | 22:46 |
| kanzure | "rawr you're doing yer integrals all backasswards" | 22:46 |
| fenn | classification and structure of the ebola virus was the one i just read | 22:46 |
| fenn | apparently i gave a presentation on it (whoda thunk) | 22:47 |
| kanzure | hey, what's up with kanzure___ ? | 22:47 |
| fenn | it's full moon so he has a tail :) | 22:48 |
| fenn | just dont feed him after midnight or he'll turn into a giant ape | 22:48 |
| kanzure | it's true, he used to howl at the moon | 22:49 |
| fenn | "We found 45 kilos of flour the other day | 22:52 |
| fenn | in a dumpster, and there was a pancake party. Then there was a tickling | 22:52 |
| fenn | party, a pizza party, and a yerba matte party. We're way cooler than frat | 22:52 |
| fenn | boys who have just beer parties." | 22:52 |
| -!- jk4930_ is now known as jk4930 | 23:53 | |
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