| --- Day changed Fri Oct 24 2008 | ||
| ybit | but i will definitely have a new laptop coming in less than 2 months | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| bkero | Graphics chips aren't really repairable on laptops | 00:01 |
| bkero | Unless you have an MxM card. | 00:01 |
| kanzure__ | http://bloodgate.com/perl/graph/manual/benchmark.html <- Me has to imitate this at some point. | 00:03 |
| kanzure__ | I wonder if Graph::Easy works with weird perl objects. | 00:07 |
| pk | you're finding it easy to get funding for a bioreactor? | 00:07 |
| gene_ | making a bioreactor is easier than you think PK | 00:08 |
| pk | kanzure was just talking about funding | 00:08 |
| kanzure__ | pk: No. I'm referring to his connections. | 00:08 |
| gene_ | oh | 00:09 |
| pk | oh, gotcha | 00:09 |
| kanzure__ | "I need a $100,000 dollar centrifuge." "Okay Bryan. You'll have it by the end of the week." "WTF?" | 00:09 |
| gene_ | wait a minute? we got a centrifuge? | 00:09 |
| gene_ | that's very expensive | 00:10 |
| kanzure__ | No. | 00:10 |
| gene_ | why the heck would we need an $100k centrifuge for? | 00:10 |
| kanzure__ | I said we don't. | 00:11 |
| gene_ | making nukes/ | 00:11 |
| kanzure__ | Real men make nukes by using their mouths as centrifuges for uranium. Radiation poisoning be damned. | 00:11 |
| gene_ | radiation poisoning isn't so much a concern as uranium poisoning | 00:12 |
| gene_ | uranium acts like lead | 00:12 |
| gene_ | chemically | 00:12 |
| gene_ | so do any of those scifi stories you read feature hovering things? | 00:13 |
| gene_ | like inside hovering things | 00:13 |
| gene_ | things that hover inside a building | 00:13 |
| gene_ | what's something from a scifi novel that hovers and would be cool to build? | 00:15 |
| bkero | landspeeder :P | 00:19 |
| kanzure__ | Giro. | 00:23 |
| gene_ | giro? | 00:25 |
| gene_ | I am thinking of stuff that hovers inside building | 00:26 |
| gene_ | s | 00:26 |
| kanzure__ | Giru. | 00:28 |
| gene_ | I am not familiar with the term Giru, do you mean robot from Dragon ball? | 00:30 |
| gene_ | I think 1950s scifi levitating furniture and tables 'might' be possible | 00:32 |
| gene_ | lamps at the very least | 00:32 |
| gene_ | or maybe walls of floating aerostats | 00:34 |
| kanzure__ | use Graph::Easy; use Graph::Easy::Parser; $parser = Graph::Easy::Parser->new(); $graph = $parser->from_file("my.dot"); foreach my $node (@nodes) { $graph->del_node($node); print "Size of graph: ", scalar $graph->nodes(), "\n"; } | 01:27 |
| kanzure__ | Before the foreach, add: @nodes = $graph->nodes(); | 01:28 |
| xp_prg | kanzure__ that is perl is it not? | 01:29 |
| kanzure__ | Perl. | 01:30 |
| kanzure__ | Now, can anybody tell me why it doesn't delete nodes from the graph? | 01:30 |
| kanzure__ | Ah crap. | 01:30 |
| kanzure__ | Nevermind. | 01:30 |
| kanzure__ | That's not a good representation of the code that I'm working with really. | 01:34 |
| xp_prg | are you reverse engineering the interface1.php stuff? | 01:35 |
| kanzure__ | No. | 01:35 |
| xp_prg | then what are you doing? | 01:37 |
| kanzure__ | Generating a few thousand grammar rules re: the transformation of function structures into component flow diagrams. | 01:38 |
| PeerInfinity | sounds like fun :) | 01:38 |
| kanzure__ | Much of my time is spent debugging recursions. | 01:41 |
| PeerInfinity | </sarcasm> | 01:41 |
| wrldpc2 | Maybe you guys can help me ... | 03:20 |
| wrldpc2 | I read some paper SOMEWHERE about how, yes people have control of their brains. | 03:21 |
| wrldpc2 | It was related to Beuragard | 03:22 |
| wrldpc2 | sp? | 03:22 |
| kanzure | Hello. | 03:34 |
| wrldpc2 | I got it: http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20026793.000-creationists-declare-war-over-the-brain.html | 03:38 |
| kanzure | So. | 03:42 |
| kanzure | This is weird. | 03:42 |
| kanzure | "kanzure_ joined #hplusroadmap" | 03:42 |
| kanzure | I count only two machines with irssi running. | 03:43 |
| kanzure_ | Oh. | 03:43 |
| kanzure | Weird. | 03:43 |
| kanzure_ | How did this happen? | 03:43 |
| kanzure | 'irssi' has decided to sign me in with two nicks. | 03:43 |
| wrldpc2 | bizah | 03:46 |
| kanzure | Anyway. Server should be back up. | 03:54 |
| gene_ | hey does anyone here know about processing? | 04:00 |
| kanzure | The java nonsense? | 04:00 |
| gene_ | yeah | 04:00 |
| gene_ | the java nonsense | 04:00 |
| kanzure | I know about it. | 04:00 |
| gene_ | and how to get it to work on windows | 04:00 |
| gene_ | apparently it's great for messing around with vision algorithms in | 04:01 |
| xp_prg | anyone here? | 04:02 |
| kanzure | xp_prg: Server is back up. | 04:02 |
| xp_prg | cool! | 04:03 |
| gene_ | so I downloaded processing now what? | 04:03 |
| kanzure | apt-get install processing | 04:03 |
| kanzure | Oh right, windows. Nobody dishes out free support for Windows these days :-). Try looking for a crappy tutorial on Google. | 04:03 |
| gene_ | damn it | 04:03 |
| xp_prg | kanzure can I please have your help for a minute? | 04:04 |
| kanzure | About what? | 04:04 |
| xp_prg | I am trying to figure out what parts go with promoter, rbs, etc... can you help me to know this a little bit? | 04:04 |
| kanzure | No. | 04:04 |
| xp_prg | how come? | 04:04 |
| kanzure | http://heybryan.org/~bbishop/docs/biobricks/categories/ | 04:04 |
| xp_prg | that page is not coming up | 04:05 |
| kanzure | http://heybryan.org/~bbishop/docs/biobricks/types/ | 04:05 |
| xp_prg | not coming up man | 04:05 |
| kanzure | http://heybryan.org/~bbishop/docs/biobricks/cats/ | 04:05 |
| kanzure | Whether or not you know the types doesn't tell you how to generate the SBML format. | 04:06 |
| gene_ | what makes a SBML file so special anyway? | 04:09 |
| kanzure | Think of it as SLDPRT. | 04:10 |
| gene_ | SLDPRT? | 04:11 |
| kanzure | You were talking about it the other day, yes. | 04:11 |
| gene_ | solidwarks file? | 04:11 |
| kanzure | Yes. | 04:11 |
| kanzure | CAD. | 04:11 |
| gene_ | ok | 04:11 |
| kanzure | The synthetic biology design tool would be designing synthetic biological equivalents of "CAD files" like SLDPART .. thought this would be more obvious .. | 04:11 |
| gene_ | oh | 04:11 |
| gene_ | I get it | 04:11 |
| gene_ | is it easy to edit in text editor? | 04:12 |
| kanzure | it's an ML, so yes, but you shouldn't. | 04:12 |
| gene_ | oh come one | 04:12 |
| gene_ | on | 04:12 |
| kanzure | You really want to memorize the entire NCBI database collection? | 04:12 |
| gene_ | you got me there | 04:13 |
| bkero | I want to grab it and run statistical analysis on it | 04:13 |
| gene_ | I would if I could | 04:13 |
| kanzure | bkero: I want to grab it because I'm just that crazy :-) | 04:13 |
| bkero | Me too :) | 04:13 |
| bkero | Statistical analysis | 04:13 |
| kanzure | It's pretty cool to be able to say that you've pirated human genomes before. | 04:13 |
| kanzure | (And no, it's not rape.) | 04:14 |
| gene_ | maybe just fun proteins like GFP, metal binding proteins, proprietary stuff | 04:14 |
| gene_ | still we need a private source in order to compile pirated copies | 04:14 |
| kanzure | What? | 04:14 |
| kanzure | http://heybryan.org/mediawiki/index.php/Artificial_wombs | 04:14 |
| kanzure | ivf links blah blah blah | 04:15 |
| gene_ | hurry up and read the diamond age already | 04:15 |
| gene_ | what I am saying is that we need our own DNA synthesizer | 04:15 |
| kanzure | So what? | 04:15 |
| kanzure | http://heybryan.org/mediawiki/index.php/DNA_synthesizer | 04:15 |
| kanzure | You know I'm already on that .. | 04:15 |
| gene_ | can you do the entire thing in microfluidics? | 04:16 |
| kanzure | No. You need chemicals. | 04:16 |
| gene_ | that's what I mean | 04:16 |
| gene_ | no valves or anything | 04:16 |
| kanzure | Yes, you need fluids. | 04:16 |
| gene_ | just fluidics | 04:17 |
| gene_ | and maybe an output control pump | 04:17 |
| kanzure | Why a pump? | 04:17 |
| kanzure | What are you talking about? | 04:17 |
| kanzure | Just go make http://bioinformatics.org/pogo/ and maybe improve later. :) | 04:17 |
| gene_ | you need to be able to choose the next nucleotide don't you? | 04:17 |
| kanzure | What does that have to do with pumping? | 04:18 |
| gene_ | we don't have special polymerase yet | 04:18 |
| kanzure | That's the other version. Don't get them confused. | 04:18 |
| gene_ | ok | 04:18 |
| gene_ | you know, we might be able to use an inkjet printer to do this | 04:19 |
| gene_ | an epson inkjet printer | 04:19 |
| kanzure | That's not the difficult part .. it's the specialty chemicals. | 04:19 |
| gene_ | like? | 04:20 |
| kanzure | Go look at the wiki page. There's a full list of all of the requirements for oligonucleotide synthesis. | 04:20 |
| gene_ | anyway how many nucleotides can the POSAM synthesize | 04:21 |
| gene_ | damn Kanzure, your website's one of the top results for inkjet dna synthesizer | 04:22 |
| gene_ | your under kurzweil though | 04:22 |
| kanzure | http://heybryan.org/webalizer/ <- Old information about hits. | 04:22 |
| kanzure | Let me go recompile that data set. | 04:22 |
| gene_ | so how many nucleotides can posam do? | 04:23 |
| gene_ | enough for funstuff? | 04:23 |
| kanzure | Ligation. | 04:24 |
| gene_ | 25bases | 04:24 |
| gene_ | how do you do ligation? | 04:25 |
| kanzure | More specialty chemicals. | 04:25 |
| gene_ | is it like what deinococcus does? | 04:25 |
| kanzure | Deinoccus does many things. | 04:26 |
| gene_ | ie in ligation do you glue randomely or match pairs? | 04:27 |
| gene_ | dang it | 04:27 |
| gene_ | POSAM requires a special epson print head | 04:27 |
| gene_ | and ball screws | 04:27 |
| gene_ | hmm... | 04:28 |
| gene_ | wonder if air bearings might work | 04:28 |
| gene_ | well we might not need that much accuracy anyway | 04:29 |
| PeerInfinity | bye | 04:30 |
| gene_ | whoa, posam is a lot more complicated than I though | 04:31 |
| gene_ | is Oligosynthesis really sensitive to oxygen and/or solvents | 04:33 |
| gene_ | solvents as in solvents that might be present in plastics | 04:33 |
| gene_ | I also don't think I can get the utilities to hook up a high purity nitrogen line to my house | 04:35 |
| kanzure | gene_: There's a new theoretical computational neuroscience class that they are offering next semester. | 04:38 |
| gene_ | cool | 04:39 |
| gene_ | I'm taking differential equations | 04:39 |
| gene_ | I'm not sure that I have time for leisure classes | 04:39 |
| gene_ | interesting | 04:42 |
| gene_ | they used activated charcoal from a pet store as part of the filter | 04:42 |
| gene_ | so what does it take to do ligation kanzure? | 04:44 |
| gene_ | do you have any papers on it | 04:44 |
| procto | kanzure: you're at utex austin, right? | 04:44 |
| kanzure | procto: Yes. | 04:44 |
| kanzure | gene_: Somewhere in the biotech repository. | 04:44 |
| kanzure | http://heybryan.org/gitweb.cgi | 04:44 |
| kanzure | Also, I gave out a link to a better version a few days ago | 04:44 |
| kanzure | I mean, a quicker version | 04:44 |
| kanzure | http;//heybryan.org/~bbishop/docs/ellingtonia/ | 04:44 |
| kanzure | Not better at all. | 04:44 |
| gene_ | you need a better user interface | 04:45 |
| kanzure | You were saying the other day that we didn't need ui. | 04:47 |
| gene_ | NCBI doesn't have a pretty user interface | 04:48 |
| gene_ | but it is easy to use | 04:48 |
| kanzure | It has a stupid interface. | 04:49 |
| kanzure | Why HTTP of all things? | 04:49 |
| kanzure | Luckily, they also provide FTP. | 04:49 |
| gene_ | ok | 04:50 |
| fenn | you're stupid kanzure | 04:50 |
| gene_ | I am not a programmer | 04:50 |
| fenn | http > FTP | 04:50 |
| procto | or maybe it's simply that | 04:51 |
| kanzure | fenn: not when you use it wrong | 04:51 |
| procto | http != ftp | 04:51 |
| fenn | you know, science citation index just recognizes good memes | 04:51 |
| gene_ | kanzure likes to have all the information on his computer | 04:51 |
| procto | they have different uses | 04:52 |
| kanzure | gasp | 04:52 |
| procto | switch your use case, and your tools will change | 04:52 |
| fenn | but http can cover all of the functions of ftp | 04:52 |
| kanzure | Nonsense! | 04:52 |
| procto | fenn: and vice versa | 04:52 |
| kanzure | fenn: http gives people incentive to think in HTMLy terms | 04:52 |
| kanzure | actually, I can't complain about NCBI specifically | 04:52 |
| kanzure | They seem to have actual gurus behind that operation. | 04:52 |
| kanzure | Don't know how they organize all of that with so many universities. | 04:52 |
| procto | kanzure, of course, has an incredibly esoteric and idosyncratic usage scenario, for, well, everything | 04:52 |
| kanzure | and institutions etc. | 04:53 |
| gene_ | this conversation seems to have devolved into a programming argument | 04:53 |
| procto | programming? no, architecture | 04:53 |
| gene_ | DNA is ligated with T4 ligase | 04:53 |
| gene_ | which comes from T4 bacteriophage | 04:53 |
| gene_ | now that might be useful | 04:53 |
| kanzure | Architecture is very important. | 04:53 |
| kanzure | Sometimes more important than the minor details. | 04:54 |
| procto | indeed it is | 04:54 |
| kanzure | *cough* lesson *cough* | 04:54 |
| procto | well, not sometimes, always | 04:54 |
| procto | by definition | 04:54 |
| gene_ | are you guys talking about voodoo? | 04:54 |
| procto | hoodoo, yes | 04:54 |
| procto | you need to engineer chickens with hypermobile necks | 04:55 |
| gene_ | http://www.vivo.colostate.edu/hbooks/genetics/biotech/enzymes/ligation.html | 04:55 |
| procto | then we can wring their necks without killing them | 04:55 |
| procto | reusable voodoo chickens | 04:55 |
| procto | for the squeamish sorcerer | 04:56 |
| kanzure | Now it's devolved. | 04:56 |
| kanzure | Hi fenn. | 04:56 |
| fenn | good morning | 04:56 |
| kanzure | Meet with Narsi tomorrow. | 04:57 |
| gene_ | who is Narsi and who want to go visit a slaughterhouse? | 04:57 |
| gene_ | http://www.jbc.org/cgi/content/abstract/261/15/6888 | 04:57 |
| kanzure | Narsi is open source algae bioreactor man. | 04:58 |
| procto | oh cool | 04:58 |
| bkero | :) | 04:58 |
| procto | kanzure: link? | 04:58 |
| bkero | I do | 04:58 |
| kanzure | procto: I think I'm the link. :( | 04:58 |
| * kanzure becomes a link. | 04:58 | |
| bkero | I advise an algae bioreactor project in Eugene. | 04:58 |
| kanzure | Eugene? | 04:58 |
| procto | kanzure: I was asking about utex because I had just read that they had a spiruline culture they would send | 04:58 |
| bkero | They're using it to generate methane | 04:59 |
| fenn | i want to share this image i just found: http://a576.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/14/l_6e45b8d7285325d29dd9ae0e733e7017.jpg | 04:59 |
| kanzure | http://utex.org/ | 04:59 |
| kanzure | fenn: How do I copy likns in irssi? | 04:59 |
| kanzure | *links | 04:59 |
| bkero | just highlight them with your mouse | 04:59 |
| kanzure | mouse? | 04:59 |
| bkero | and right-click in the url bar | 04:59 |
| kanzure | Foolish mortals! | 04:59 |
| bkero | or rather, middle-click in the url bar | 04:59 |
| fenn | i use mouse :( | 04:59 |
| kanzure | I've switched back to the server for the time being. | 05:00 |
| bkero | It's more of a 'your terminal' thing than an irssi thing | 05:00 |
| kanzure | Right. | 05:00 |
| fenn | xterm has been properly cursed so that double click properly highlights the whole url | 05:00 |
| kanzure | Not xterm. | 05:00 |
| kanzure | I'm straight up tty3 or something. | 05:00 |
| bkero | lol | 05:00 |
| bkero | My xterm just highlights a word on doubleclick | 05:01 |
| fenn | gpm | 05:01 |
| bkero | tripleclick highlights a line | 05:01 |
| fenn | bkero: you need some ridiculous string in .xtermrc | 05:01 |
| bkero | lol | 05:01 |
| procto | now, sleep time | 05:01 |
| procto | good night | 05:01 |
| gene_ | sleep is for slackers! | 05:01 |
| kanzure | This guy is coming in from India to meet with me. | 05:02 |
| kanzure | Sleep is for the weak! Death for the hopeless! Fight entropy, begin doing nothing _today_. | 05:02 |
| bkero | wow | 05:02 |
| kanzure | wait, wait | 05:02 |
| fenn | in .Xresources: XTerm*charClass: 33:48,36-47:48,58-59:48,61:48,63-64:48,95:48,126:48 | 05:02 |
| bkero | That's dirty | 05:02 |
| fenn | it doesnt hilight ()'s which i dont yet know is a good or bad thing | 05:02 |
| fenn | or url after # mark | 05:02 |
| kanzure | List of ascii keycodes? | 05:02 |
| fenn | i guess | 05:02 |
| * kanzure frowns at how his hit rate has gone down. | 05:03 | |
| bkero | Still highlighing snigle words for me, even in new xterms | 05:03 |
| bkero | kanzure: get /.ed | 05:03 |
| kanzure | bkero: http://slashdot.org/~the_kanzure <- Rawr. | 05:04 |
| kanzure | At one point I was solid 5's. | 05:05 |
| bkero | lol | 05:05 |
| gene_ | silly fool | 05:07 |
| gene_ | I always get fives | 05:07 |
| kanzure | Link? | 05:07 |
| gene_ | where on slashdot do I go to see that | 05:08 |
| gene_ | ok almost always get fives | 05:09 |
| bkero | I get fives on IRC :) | 05:10 |
| kanzure | Well, you admin nodes, so. | 05:10 |
| gene_ | http://slashdot.org/~Plazmid | 05:10 |
| fenn | bkero: you have to xrdb -merge ~/.Xresources (put that in your .bashrc) | 05:10 |
| gene_ | anyway I don't post to slashdot that often | 05:11 |
| bkero | works, sweet | 05:12 |
| gene_ | kanzure how do i use your damn database | 05:16 |
| kanzure | Which one? :) | 05:16 |
| gene_ | bio | 05:16 |
| kanzure | The git repository? | 05:16 |
| gene_ | whichever one finds me microfluidic dna synthesizers | 05:17 |
| kanzure | http://heybryan.org/~bbishop/docs/ellingtonia/biotech/ is a link to an HTTP index of the files. http://heybryan.org/gitweb.cgi is a CGI interface to the git repo. http://heybryan.org/biotech.git is the repo itself. | 05:17 |
| gene_ | dang I just found a source for 35% H2O2 | 05:19 |
| gene_ | and that we might run into problems obtaining an integral component for DNA synthesis because of the DEA | 05:22 |
| gene_ | but we might be able to make it ourselves | 05:23 |
| gene_ | Kanzure do you know what THE GOLDEN BOOK OF CHEMISTRY EXPERIMENTS is? | 05:23 |
| kanzure | Yes. | 05:23 |
| kanzure | Hrm. | 05:24 |
| gene_ | you want it? | 05:24 |
| kanzure | I should put up my book collection. | 05:24 |
| kanzure | No. I have it. | 05:24 |
| fenn | http://fennetic.net/pub/ebooks/bookwarez/The_Golden_Book_of_Chemistry_Experiments_-_R._Brent_WW.pdf | 05:24 |
| gene_ | ok | 05:24 |
| gene_ | damn | 05:24 |
| kanzure | No fair. | 05:24 |
| fenn | wah :P | 05:24 |
| gene_ | wrong reaction | 05:24 |
| kanzure | :( fenn got to it first | 05:24 |
| fenn | apparently a chemistry teacher at my high school was killed (in the 1980's) when he tried to open a glass peroxide bottle with a pair of vise grips. (the cap was rusted on) | 05:25 |
| fenn | i'm probably misremembering several details | 05:26 |
| gene_ | ouch | 05:26 |
| gene_ | wait a minute, it had a metal cap? | 05:27 |
| fenn | yeah | 05:27 |
| gene_ | that doesn't make sense | 05:27 |
| fenn | and perhaps because of things like this they now have plastic caps | 05:27 |
| gene_ | no, metals tend to break down H2O2 | 05:27 |
| gene_ | I' | 05:29 |
| gene_ | it would make more sense if it was a glass cap and the vise grips where a bit rusted | 05:29 |
| gene_ | heck, probably giving hydrogen peroxide a wrong look might cause it to break down | 05:30 |
| fenn | hmm one would hope the paper "Bottle explosion following catalytic dissolution of hydrogen peroxide" would provide some insight, but alas | 05:30 |
| gene_ | you know it is fairly simple to purify hydrogen peroxide? | 05:31 |
| gene_ | it's too simple | 05:32 |
| fenn | just distill it | 05:32 |
| gene_ | nope | 05:32 |
| gene_ | too dangerous and hard | 05:32 |
| gene_ | for the amateur at least | 05:33 |
| fenn | http://www.tecaeromex.com/ingles/destilai.html | 05:34 |
| kanzure | Okay. | 05:34 |
| kanzure | http://heybryan.org/books/chem/ | 05:34 |
| gene_ | still haven't guessed it | 05:35 |
| gene_ | so don't | 05:35 |
| fenn | guessed what? | 05:35 |
| kanzure | http://heybryan.org/books/bio/ | 05:38 |
| gene_ | dang | 05:38 |
| gene_ | the golden book doesn't have any reactions for making acetic anhydride | 05:38 |
| gene_ | a hard to obtain chemical | 05:39 |
| fenn | hot damn i was going to make this program but someone already did: http://www.liquidpcb.org/ | 05:39 |
| gene_ | dang it | 05:41 |
| gene_ | microfluidic dna synthesizers need to be solvent resistant | 05:42 |
| gene_ | which means they need to be made with PTFE | 05:42 |
| fenn | or glass | 05:43 |
| gene_ | which means they need to be made with Hot embossing | 05:43 |
| gene_ | damn | 05:43 |
| fenn | or silicone | 05:43 |
| gene_ | got me there | 05:43 |
| gene_ | good | 05:43 |
| gene_ | excellent | 05:43 |
| gene_ | silicone might not be practical though | 05:43 |
| gene_ | but it can be made with shrinky dinks | 05:44 |
| gene_ | so kanzure what do you do about argon in the biohacking toolkit? | 05:50 |
| gene_ | you can't synthesize argon | 05:51 |
| kanzure | http://heybryan.org/books/Feynman/ | 05:52 |
| kanzure | B2B auto procurement of argon. | 05:52 |
| kanzure | Too bad everyone sucks. | 05:52 |
| gene_ | explain | 05:53 |
| kanzure | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B2B | 05:53 |
| kanzure | Protocols for business servers to communicate in trade/auctions, etc. | 05:54 |
| gene_ | huh? | 05:54 |
| gene_ | you buy the argon? | 05:54 |
| kanzure | Not with money though. | 05:54 |
| gene_ | not mine it from the air? | 05:54 |
| gene_ | with? | 05:54 |
| kanzure | I'd have to look at the maps. | 05:55 |
| kanzure | Anyway, specifically in the kit, the thing to do about argon is the retarded polymerase, maybe. | 05:55 |
| kanzure | I also am pretty sure that any inert gas would work for the vacuum that they wanted for POSAM. | 05:56 |
| gene_ | hmm... | 05:56 |
| gene_ | wonder if you can make helium with an electric eel cell powered fusor... | 05:56 |
| gene_ | ponder this | 06:08 |
| gene_ | http://www.trnmag.com/Stories/2002/100202/Integrated_biochips_debut_100202.html | 06:08 |
| fenn | rubber microfluidic chip sounds like a good place to use piezo actuators | 08:17 |
| UtopiahGHML | anybody good with ancient greek or Thyucydides' philosophy? | 08:54 |
| UtopiahGHML | in french it's "Il faut choisir : se reposer ou etre libre." | 08:59 |
| UtopiahGHML | that goes a bit like "A choice has to be made : rest or be free." | 08:59 |
| UtopiahGHML | but Id like the original version and real English version, not my lousy translation. | 09:00 |
| faceface | me no good with language | 10:35 |
| faceface | is there a transhumanist degree course anywhere? | 10:36 |
| faceface | can we organise one? | 10:36 |
| UtopiahGHML | a degree?! | 10:39 |
| UtopiahGHML | are you serious | 10:39 |
| UtopiahGHML | sorry, let's try | 10:41 |
| UtopiahGHML | what would we the core of the classes? like the notions to master | 10:41 |
| UtopiahGHML | how would your organize the basics of the ideal transhumanist degree? | 10:41 |
| fenn | oh it's quite straightforward: cybernetics, genetic engineering, neurology, aero engineering, instrumentation, human machine interface.. that ought to cover most of it | 10:49 |
| UtopiahGHML | the core | 10:50 |
| UtopiahGHML | what do you think would be the strict minimum? | 10:50 |
| faceface | UtopiahGHML, see kanzures biohacking stuff | 10:51 |
| faceface | I just walked past a poser about the mechanics of tying synthetic muscle to bone, and I thought that this should be part of a degree course | 10:51 |
| faceface | human machine interface | 10:51 |
| fenn | um, well, i suppose you could split it up into three areas of focus: wearable vs implant vs engineered-human | 10:51 |
| UtopiahGHML | do we have a wiki to design this and add links to what we think should be the required materials (books, videos, thesis)? | 10:52 |
| UtopiahGHML | what I mean is listing topics or area is somewhat easy but ordering them by importance and ordered by steps of the learning process is harder IMHO | 10:52 |
| fenn | pff "ordered by steps of learning process" | 10:53 |
| faceface | I thought kanzure__ had somethign like this | 10:53 |
| faceface | somewhere | 10:53 |
| faceface | yup, lets define the modules and plan the years | 10:53 |
| faceface | we can build around the standard modules that a university has too | 10:53 |
| faceface | like cs modules, bio modules, phys modules... | 10:54 |
| UtopiahGHML | faceface: wikiversity | 10:54 |
| faceface | lets do it! | 10:54 |
| UtopiahGHML | :) | 10:54 |
| UtopiahGHML | http://en.wikiversity.org/ | 10:54 |
| * fenn bets 9000 whuffie that name is already taken | 10:54 | |
| UtopiahGHML | it's not "taken" it exists. | 10:54 |
| faceface | no, we can design a new degree using wikiversity | 10:54 |
| UtopiahGHML | yes | 10:54 |
| UtopiahGHML | that's what I meant | 10:54 |
| faceface | lets do it! | 10:55 |
| * fenn notes that most famous "transhumanists" are actually futurists | 10:57 | |
| UtopiahGHML | target audience? what degree? NS? | 10:57 |
| UtopiahGHML | Bach?MS?PhD? | 10:57 |
| fenn | right, well, while you guys are off doing all this education stuff, i'm going to watch some anime | 10:58 |
| fenn | and maybe someone will save the world | 10:58 |
| fenn | or whatever it is we're trying to do here | 10:58 |
| UtopiahGHML | GITS as required material for a course ;) | 10:59 |
| fenn | media appreciation | 10:59 |
| UtopiahGHML | "communication of ideas" class | 10:59 |
| UtopiahGHML | how to translate a concept for the public | 10:59 |
| fenn | even ghost in the shell is a poor example of an ideal | 11:00 |
| UtopiahGHML | an ideal? | 11:00 |
| faceface | UtopiahGHML, I was thinking batchelors, a 3 year course (including futureism) | 11:00 |
| fenn | it's not exactly a happy future | 11:00 |
| faceface | we can nick from various masters courses in futurism, synth-biology | 11:00 |
| UtopiahGHML | Cyberpunk is often dystopian... | 11:01 |
| faceface | fenn, seen ghost in the shell series 2? | 11:01 |
| fenn | no | 11:01 |
| faceface | ITS FRIKIN AWESOME! | 11:01 |
| fenn | i've only seen the movie and GITS:innocence (the one with the basset hound) | 11:01 |
| faceface | how can I give you 7Gb right now? | 11:01 |
| fenn | er. you can mail me a dvd i guess | 11:01 |
| faceface | fenn, you have seen the worst gits has to offer | 11:01 |
| fenn | yep innocence was pretty bad | 11:02 |
| faceface | the first movie is awesome, the second (innocence) was awefull | 11:02 |
| fenn | the movie was amazing though | 11:02 |
| faceface | yeah | 11:02 |
| faceface | the second series is killer | 11:02 |
| faceface | what is the future of data transmission? | 11:02 |
| faceface | (other than mailing disks / dna?) | 11:02 |
| fenn | infrastructure? | 11:03 |
| faceface | yeah | 11:03 |
| fenn | probably spread spectrum laser | 11:03 |
| faceface | and fibers? | 11:03 |
| fenn | fiber is good but expensive for hooking up your toaster | 11:03 |
| faceface | how do we get wired up? | 11:03 |
| faceface | is this satelite to satelite ? | 11:03 |
| fenn | and it snags on branches and stuff when you're prancing through the forest :) | 11:04 |
| faceface | so your lazers are wireless? | 11:04 |
| fenn | no fool! you have a little camera/transmitter thing that sits on your glasses | 11:04 |
| fenn | it's powered by your body area network | 11:04 |
| UtopiahGHML | Wimax/P2PWifi | 11:04 |
| * fenn slumps | 11:04 | |
| faceface | oh... how fast can I send you 7Gb using this? | 11:04 |
| UtopiahGHML | use BT... | 11:05 |
| fenn | yes of course you'll have RF transmitter for backup when out of line of sight | 11:05 |
| UtopiahGHML | makes no sense to transfer by P2P sth that swarms already have. | 11:05 |
| faceface | fenn, use BT | 11:05 |
| UtopiahGHML | (I mean 1on1 P2P...) | 11:05 |
| fenn | dear lazyweb, please point me to a torrent i can click on | 11:06 |
| UtopiahGHML | isohunt.com | 11:06 |
| fenn | um, and why is it 7GB? | 11:06 |
| fenn | nevermind | 11:06 |
| UtopiahGHML | (AFAIR boxtorrents.com is dedicated to anime) | 11:08 |
| faceface | fenn, the second series of GITS | 11:08 |
| faceface | its ~ 7Gb | 11:08 |
| UtopiahGHML | faceface: are you editing a page right now? | 11:09 |
| UtopiahGHML | for the cursus | 11:09 |
| faceface | no | 12:01 |
| UtopiahGHML | faceface: ttp://www.transhumanisme.nl/node/9 | 13:51 |
| UtopiahGHML | # Year 1: Transhumanism and Human Nature | 13:52 |
| UtopiahGHML | # Year 2: Environmental Impact of Transhumanism | 13:52 |
| UtopiahGHML | # Year 3: Social and Legal Implications of Transhumanism | 13:52 |
| UtopiahGHML | # Year 4: Transhumanism as Secularized Eschatology | 13:52 |
| UtopiahGHML | Eschatology (from the Greek ......., Eschatos meaning "last" and -logy meaning "the study of") is a part of theology and philosophy concerned with what is believed to be the final events in the history of the world, or the ultimate destiny of humanity, commonly referred to as the end of the world. (Wikipedia) | 13:54 |
| kanzure | yay alarm clocks | 14:33 |
| kanzure | This sleep thing isn't working out for me. | 14:33 |
| kanzure | re: Transhuman Tech degree program, I think Utopiah was thinking of http://heybryan.org/mediawiki/index.php/Roadmap maybe | 14:37 |
| * kanzure runs | 14:37 | |
| * UtopiahGHML just created a meta-ToDo node... not sure it's such a good idea ;) | 14:49 | |
| UtopiahGHML | who was talking about SCRUM sometime ago? | 14:55 |
| kanzure__ | Hrm. I might have done a bad thing. | 16:00 |
| kanzure__ | Bioreactor group is led by somebody who used to work for Monsanto. | 16:00 |
| kanzure__ | Isn't that sorta unforgivable? Like working for Microsoft? | 16:00 |
| kanzure__ | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monsanto_Canada_Inc._v._Schmeiser | 16:00 |
| bkero | My friend just applied for a job at Monsanto. | 16:18 |
| bkero | Biochem position | 16:18 |
| kanzure__ | Pure evil? | 16:26 |
| bkero | I asked him if he didn't have any problem with them, and he said that he knows more about GM food than hippies. | 16:27 |
| UtopiahGHML | :/ | 16:27 |
| bkero | Then I told him I was referring to Monsanto's business practices, and not GM food. He didn't respond. | 16:27 |
| UtopiahGHML | it's not about the quality the research of the product they do, like Microsoft | 16:28 |
| UtopiahGHML | it's about the dependency their business model enforce. | 16:28 |
| UtopiahGHML | they trap consumers in their system. | 16:28 |
| UtopiahGHML | with no possible to turnback. | 16:28 |
| UtopiahGHML | (seeds of sotfware, you do not possess them anymore, it's your mean of production, you're fucked) | 16:29 |
| bkero | Single-yielding plants sort of turn me off. : | 16:29 |
| bkero | Sterilizing the seeds so you have to buy more Monsanto seeds. | 16:29 |
| UtopiahGHML | that's the whole BM. | 16:29 |
| UtopiahGHML | terminator seed I think they called it. | 16:29 |
| UtopiahGHML | I think most people who work for Montsanto are nice | 16:30 |
| UtopiahGHML | in the end it doesn't matter, they still enslave. | 16:30 |
| kanzure__ | Dr. Sata is certainly an interesting, nice fellow | 16:30 |
| kanzure__ | But I'm starting to see very strong business motivations. | 16:30 |
| kanzure__ | I'm actually wondering things like, "wait, is this legal?" | 16:30 |
| UtopiahGHML | being illegale doesn't mean being bad | 16:31 |
| kanzure__ | i.e., as an explanation to where all of this money is coming from | 16:31 |
| kanzure__ | Of cours.e | 16:31 |
| kanzure__ | *Of course. | 16:31 |
| kanzure__ | I don't think I care that much, but I would like to know regardless. | 16:31 |
| bkero | Monsanto has an exraordinarily large lobbying group. There's no court in this country for companies like Monsanto. | 16:31 |
| kanzure__ | I see. | 16:31 |
| UtopiahGHML | it's a tech and law powerhouse | 16:31 |
| UtopiahGHML | (who have people working or CSR and Greenwashing too...) | 16:39 |
| kanzure__ | Anybody want to call protein and protein-membrane interactions. The goal is the design of synthetic biopharmaceutical products, such as antimicrobial peptides. | 16:39 |
| kanzure__ | Prof. Kaznessis also directs the University of Minnesota Bioinformatics Summer Institute, a summer undergraduate education program funded by the National Institutes of Health and the National Science Foundation. For more information go to www.bsi.umn.edu. | 16:39 |
| kanzure__ | argh | 16:39 |
| kanzure__ | Anybody want to call Kaznessis? He isn't responding to me. | 16:39 |
| faceface | monsanto was dubbed 'monster', but they are not that bad. they just tried to make a fast buck from old technology | 16:40 |
| faceface | I think they would be much better if they started again with hindsight (impossible I know) | 16:40 |
| faceface | kanzure__, was the roadmap an overview of H+ topics? | 16:41 |
| kanzure__ | faceface: No. Yes. I'm not sure any more. It was more an attempt to lay out areas to explore more thoroughly. Some of the pieces of it go down to details about making the brain implants for instance, but note that it doesn't mention how terribly hard it is to make them do something useful. | 16:45 |
| faceface | I see | 16:48 |
| faceface | I think there is enough primary research out there on enough core H+ concepts to outline a 3 year BSc | 16:49 |
| faceface | quite why I don't know... | 16:49 |
| faceface | I'm not in the business of running degree courses... | 16:49 |
| UtopiahGHML | faceface: didyou see the linked I posted? | 16:49 |
| faceface | I'm such a lazy bastard | 16:51 |
| faceface | what language is that? | 16:52 |
| faceface | its not english! | 16:52 |
| faceface | UtopiahGHML, I thought that was your proposal | 16:52 |
| faceface | Proponents of transhumanism believe that advances in robotics, nanotechnology, artificial intelligence and genomics will liberate humanity from pain and suffering... you could say the same about biologists | 16:53 |
| faceface | (the last part I mean) | 16:53 |
| faceface | I don't see the necessity to tie H+ so closely to a particular overarching philosophical outlook | 16:54 |
| faceface | at base its a bunch of technologies right? | 16:54 |
| faceface | I mean the philosophical aspects are fascinating, like the increasing digitization of the real world and simulation leading to a movement towards extending our consciousness 'online', and those topics could (and should) be covered. | 16:55 |
| faceface | but the details of human computer interface, combined with the detail of tissue engineering, and the detail of AI, these don't need any particular philosophical underpinning other than that of science in general | 16:56 |
| faceface | (I just picked a few 'modules' of H+ at random) | 16:56 |
| UtopiahGHML | I would put : prospective, strategy, innovation management, mathematic modelling, simulation and few directly technical topic of the key trendy areas (bio, info, cogno, nano) | 16:59 |
| UtopiahGHML | and course on how to leverage what you need regarding law, investment, etc | 17:00 |
| faceface | yes | 17:00 |
| faceface | and how to manage learning in rapidly advancing fields | 17:01 |
| UtopiahGHML | cognitive science could help there but it's true, something dedicated to it would be interesting | 17:01 |
| UtopiahGHML | and also a "connect" specific discipline | 17:02 |
| faceface | also some 'history of innovation' would be neat too | 17:02 |
| UtopiahGHML | using cross-domain knowledge and tools. | 17:02 |
| faceface | connect? | 17:02 |
| faceface | yes | 17:02 |
| UtopiahGHML | knowing when to focus and separate but knowing when to catalyze and blend. | 17:02 |
| faceface | ontologies, analogous reasoning, semantic knowledge management, expert systems | 17:03 |
| faceface | 80:20 management? | 17:03 |
| UtopiahGHML | what do call management? human resource? | 17:04 |
| UtopiahGHML | team building? | 17:04 |
| faceface | like project management | 17:04 |
| faceface | specification - development - what is that third thing | 17:04 |
| faceface | testing? | 17:04 |
| UtopiahGHML | I would put that into strategy (like a sub-chapter tactic and human-based tactics) | 17:04 |
| faceface | requirements engineering ... etc. | 17:04 |
| faceface | ok | 17:05 |
| UtopiahGHML | would you like a build a tree of all this on a wikipage? | 17:05 |
| faceface | yes | 17:05 |
| faceface | but I have to og | 17:05 |
| faceface | go | 17:05 |
| faceface | my wife asked me to not spend the weekend with my gf... | 17:05 |
| faceface | (her name for my computer!) | 17:06 |
| UtopiahGHML | so cute | 17:06 |
| faceface | ;-) | 17:06 |
| faceface | see you monday | 17:06 |
| UtopiahGHML | say hi from your gf :P | 17:06 |
| kanzure__ | I wonder what I was thinking. | 17:07 |
| kanzure__ | "Oh. Sure. 371 factorial rules. No problem." | 17:07 |
| kanzure__ | Bahahah. "Number senses". | 17:08 |
| UtopiahGHML | do you guys have memory backtracking tricks? | 17:08 |
| UtopiahGHML | like when you write notes you add the date and the location | 17:08 |
| UtopiahGHML | or when you are having a conversation you make mental notes | 17:08 |
| kanzure__ | Yes. | 17:08 |
| kanzure__ | ' | 17:08 |
| UtopiahGHML | then use a physical item to remember you need to bounce after this item on that | 17:08 |
| UtopiahGHML | what do you use? | 17:09 |
| kanzure__ | Not so much that. | 17:09 |
| kanzure__ | No, it's not so much that I use a particular method or trick, but it's kind of like after reading a few thousand papers, you start to be able to remember papers because they follow such a pattern. | 17:09 |
| kanzure__ | When I was younger, I would come home from school and write for hours on end the entire day, "line by line" as it were. I could cite to you the patterns on the bricks in the hallways (okay, not really - but I did remember some textures for instance), I would write about which people passed first and then second, but oddly enough I couldn't tell you what was written on the overhead projector. Hrm. | 17:10 |
| kanzure__ | http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27339516/ Transplanted cornea living for 123 years. | 17:14 |
| kanzure__ | I suppose this begs the question of its identity though. Cells die and grow quite frequently. | 17:14 |
| kanzure__ | especially over 123 years. | 17:14 |
| kanzure__ | Oops. I said "begs the question". Wrong. | 17:14 |
| wrldpc2 | For the record GITS 2>GITS 1 | 18:24 |
| UtopiahGHML | ping.fm | 18:30 |
| UtopiahGHML | they even provide... a customURL | 18:30 |
| UtopiahGHML | so basically I posted from Gtalk on Facebook and my wiki simultanouesly. | 18:31 |
| UtopiahGHML | so now I can SMS/IM/Twitt/... my wiki :D | 18:31 |
| ppk | howdy | 18:46 |
| bkero | lolgits | 18:47 |
| kanzure__ | ping.fm? Hrm. | 21:49 |
| kanzure__ | Narsi hasn't called yet. Probably won't happen. Oh well. | 21:56 |
| kanzure__ | So for the bioreactor stuff, I fear that it will end up requring a ridiculously fine filter even with bioflocculant-induced coagulation.. | 22:25 |
| wrldpc2 | can you guys serve your book collections via torrent? (fenn&bryan) | 22:43 |
| fenn | nope, cant be bothered | 22:44 |
| ppk | book collections? what book collections? | 22:52 |
| ppk | do you have them up, in any format other than a torrent? | 22:52 |
| xp_prg | fenn!!! | 23:03 |
| xp_prg | fenn did you see my biobench app yet? | 23:03 |
| kanzure__ | ppk: http://heybryan.org/books/Feynman/ | 23:19 |
| kanzure__ | ppk: http://heybryan.org/books/chem/ | 23:19 |
| kanzure__ | ppk: http://heybryan.org/books/bio/ | 23:19 |
| xp_prg | fenn hello? | 23:22 |
| kanzure__ | This is a | 23:31 |
| kanzure__ | crucial distinction which is not always made in discussions of the subject; but, in | 23:31 |
| kanzure__ | principle, a truly unified theory cannot come from an act of unification; that is, | 23:31 |
| kanzure__ | we cannot, for example, create a truly unified theory simply by combining | 23:31 |
| kanzure__ | quantum mechanics and general relativity in a new mathematical superstructure. | 23:31 |
| kanzure__ | Such attempts have always failed in the past, and will continue to do so in the | 23:31 |
| kanzure__ | future, because the concept of unification as combination is invalid. | 23:31 |
| kanzure__ | Nothing is | 23:33 |
| kanzure__ | unique among conceptual ideas in being infinitely degenerate (infinitely capable | 23:33 |
| kanzure__ | of reinterpretation) and it may be that this infinite degeneracy is the key to an | 23:34 |
| kanzure__ | understanding of its special power. | 23:34 |
| ppk | sweet, thanks bryan | 23:34 |
| ppk | pro collection. | 23:34 |
| kanzure__ | http://www.worldscibooks.com/phy_etextbook/6544/6544_chap01.pdf | 23:35 |
| kanzure__ | ppk: There's more where that came from. I just need to go sorting through the collections. | 23:35 |
| * kanzure__ likes that "Zero to Infinity" book. It starts off talking about the universe rewriting itself, i.e. a generative process related to the infinitely degenerate 'nothingness'. | 23:36 | |
| kanzure__ | Clearly the work of somebody who has spent too much time submitting bug reports to mod_rewrite. | 23:43 |
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