| --- Day changed Wed Nov 12 2008 | ||
| wrldpc | hey bryan could you link me to the ultrasound neuronal stimulation paper? | 00:19 |
|---|---|---|
| wrldpc | I can't recall where on hb i located it | 00:19 |
| kanzure_ | hb heh' | 00:20 |
| kanzure_ | http://heybryan.org/~bbishop/docs/Ultrasound_brain.pdf | 00:20 |
| wrldpc | sry | 00:20 |
| wrldpc | ty | 00:20 |
| fenn | "I can't be cool because I already know that indifference Closes the doors of humanity | 00:27 |
| kanzure_ | ? | 00:27 |
| fenn | translated lyrics from ghost in the shell | 00:27 |
| fenn | lyrics appreciation day! | 00:27 |
| fenn | with a fap to xahlee | 00:28 |
| kanzure_ | is it that time of year already? | 00:28 |
| kanzure_ | I mentioned xahlee to you before, yes? | 00:28 |
| fenn | yes and i found him on my own already | 00:29 |
| fenn | um, same author i guess (yoko kanno's AI alter ego gabriela robin) | 00:31 |
| fenn | heh sorry, same author as "information high" | 00:33 |
| kanzure_ | Why do we schedule things for 8 at night again? | 01:42 |
| kanzure_ | Huh. Job seeker on wta-talk for "in the transhumanist sector". | 01:44 |
| kanzure_ | so .. marketing? | 01:44 |
| gene | you there kanzure | 02:07 |
| -!- gene_ is now known as gene | 02:10 | |
| gene | looks like we have enemies http://www.dailygalaxy.com/my_weblog/2008/11/can-humans-live.html | 02:36 |
| wrldpc | His name is Sherwin Nuland. He works at Yale School of Medicine. | 02:42 |
| wrldpc | Dispatch the mercenaries. | 02:42 |
| wrldpc | ;) | 02:43 |
| gene | We don't dispatch merceneries | 02:44 |
| gene | we dispatch genetically modified winged marmots | 02:44 |
| gene | that shoot fire | 02:44 |
| wrldpc | v00t | 02:45 |
| wrldpc | nanobugs with polonium-210 payloads ;) | 02:46 |
| wrldpc | is anyone watching Fringe now? | 02:46 |
| wrldpc | wtf is with Sherwin? Is he that despaired? | 02:47 |
| wrldpc | Many people reject immortality because they feel they've nothing to live for. | 02:47 |
| wrldpc | Necessitates the resurrection of the dead. | 02:47 |
| gene | heh | 02:50 |
| gene | is that on fringe | 02:51 |
| gene | I might have to watch it then | 02:51 |
| wrldpc | heh | 02:51 |
| wrldpc | nope ... not that wise unfortunately ;) | 02:51 |
| wrldpc | they're using electricity to jump start a dead guy's brain and then transmitting the corpse's (?) brainwaves to another guy's brain to get some data for Agent Dunham who's in Germany ........ | 02:54 |
| kanzure_ | So, for the Building Brains class, the (ridiculously simple) homework is to describe, list and identify the ions for a neuron with an excitatory synapse that has a peak of 60 mV, and a resting potential of 0 mV, and an inhibitory synapse with a peak of -60 mV for an action potential and a resting potential of 0 mV. What are the relative concentrations at each state of the ions? | 03:50 |
| kanzure_ | The ions in the system are potassium and sodium. | 03:50 |
| kanzure_ | gene: Okay, thanks for the reminder. | 03:50 |
| kanzure_ | Hey, does anyone want to check if Maddox's site follows the Supermemo repetition spacing curve? | 04:01 |
| gene | what's maddox? | 04:38 |
| kanzure_ | http://thebestpageintheuniverse.net/ | 04:38 |
| gene | it's down | 04:38 |
| gene | Hey Kanzure | 04:38 |
| kanzure_ | http://maddox.xmission.com | 04:38 |
| kanzure_ | Try that one. | 04:38 |
| kanzure_ | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maddox_(writer) | 04:39 |
| kanzure_ | Fine, his server is down. | 04:39 |
| kanzure_ | But Wikipedia will have about him. | 04:39 |
| gene | you know anyway I can not sleep | 04:39 |
| gene | nothing about it in wikipedia | 04:40 |
| gene | you have any tips on avoid sleep | 04:41 |
| gene | avoiding sleep | 04:41 |
| gene | currently experiencing verbal system air | 04:41 |
| gene | any coffees you recommend, teas, formulations? | 04:42 |
| gene | kanzure? | 04:43 |
| gene | SLEEP IS FOR SLACKERS! | 04:47 |
| kanzure_ | gene: Stimulants. | 04:47 |
| kanzure_ | Sleep is for the weak. | 04:47 |
| gene | indeed | 04:47 |
| gene | what do you recommend? | 04:48 |
| kanzure_ | I'm on 60 mg Adderall. | 04:48 |
| gene | right now? | 04:48 |
| kanzure_ | Not at the moment, I was hoping to get some hours of sleep tonight actually. | 04:49 |
| gene | I'm on 30 mg | 04:49 |
| gene | wait | 04:49 |
| kanzure_ | Of what? | 04:49 |
| gene | of same | 04:49 |
| kanzure_ | Extended release?] | 04:49 |
| gene | yeah | 04:49 |
| kanzure_ | Server is going down tonight. | 04:54 |
| gene | I have decided not to sleep tonight | 04:55 |
| -!- gene_ is now known as gene | 05:30 | |
| kanzure_ | I feel so dirty because of that latest email I sent to openmanufacturing. | 05:31 |
| gene | what did you do this time? | 05:40 |
| gene | wait a minute, you sent me a mbio thing about patent law? | 05:40 |
| gene | what's the fun in that? | 05:41 |
| kanzure_ | You go to know who to stay away from. | 05:41 |
| xp_prg | kanzure whatup with my script you doing more with it or what? | 05:41 |
| kanzure_ | xp_prg: I thought I explained? | 05:42 |
| xp_prg | you said you were doing more stuff in other areas or something | 05:42 |
| kanzure_ | .. righto, well there's a bit more to it than that but ok | 05:42 |
| ybit | thoughtware.tv :: new to me | 05:42 |
| kanzure_ | thoughtware.tv is new to you? :) | 05:43 |
| kanzure_ | They spam the transhumanist mailing lists like crazy. | 05:43 |
| ybit | that's where i found it just now | 05:43 |
| kanzure_ | singularity list? | 05:43 |
| ybit | yep | 05:43 |
| gene | what's thoughtware, and does anyone know eigenvectors/ eigenvalues | 05:43 |
| kanzure_ | Just some media website. | 05:44 |
| gene | do you know eigen vectors kanzure? | 05:44 |
| kanzure_ | I no longer know them. | 05:45 |
| gene | damn | 05:45 |
| kanzure_ | Uh oh. | 05:53 |
| kanzure_ | Nope, nevermind. False alarm. | 05:53 |
| gene | what about how to solve boundary value problems | 05:54 |
| gene | guess not | 05:54 |
| kanzure_ | I'm looking at this on Wikipedia and I fail to see how boundary value problems aren't solved by the same ways you find limits of multivariable functions. | 05:56 |
| gene | it sorta of is | 06:04 |
| gene | but is sorta not | 06:04 |
| kanzure_ | Waah, Paul is getting bitchy because he doesn't use IRC. | 09:22 |
| kanzure_ | ".. looks like you last updated 4 months ago .. I don't do IRC though and am too lazy to read logs even though I read every other kind of log" | 09:22 |
| kanzure_ | for the ronja receiver: "it looks like pitch-black-analog-movie material can make some quite good IR-pass filters. since they usually are 35mm square they could be placed quite easy in front of the receiver diodes for IR-based systems" | 12:53 |
| UtopiahGHML | Updates from visualbiotech http://www.youtube.com/user/visualbiotech , videos of neurons rendering | 13:59 |
| UtopiahGHML | (for the story BioInspire, made by VisualBioTech, is used by the Blue Brain Project at the Brain Mind Institute of the Swiss Federal Institute of Technology in Lausanne, Switzerland) | 14:09 |
| UtopiahGHML | (and for the story of the story "The Blue Brain project is the first comprehensive attempt to reverse-engineer the mammalian brain, in order to understand brain function and dysfunction through detailed simulations." EFPL+IBM) | 14:09 |
| UtopiahGHML | (actually those were old renderings :( | 15:21 |
| nsh | hrm | 15:27 |
| UtopiahGHML | anyway, between this project and the LHC it makes you think that despite its size, Switzerland is still pretty active... | 15:47 |
| nsh | switzerland is a geographical tardis | 15:51 |
| UtopiahGHML | (watching http://seedmagazine.com/mind08/mind08_henry-markram.html ) | 15:52 |
| UtopiahGHML | @14:00 building biocomputer to run the simulations of the brain modeled | 15:54 |
| UtopiahGHML | \Hi Descartes\ | 15:54 |
| kanzure__ | UtopiahGHML: I have a link to the Henry Markram talk on the wiki btw. | 16:56 |
| kanzure__ | http://heybryan.org/intense_world_syndrome.html is the same guy running the Blue Brain Project | 16:56 |
| kanzure__ | http://heybryan.org/mediawiki/index.php/Henry_Markram | 16:56 |
| kanzure__ | UtopiahGHML: Yeah, if that link on seedmagazine is not the IBM talk then you need to go see the IBM talk. | 16:57 |
| kanzure__ | I have a copy on my server, though presently it's being copied over to another hdd. | 16:57 |
| kanzure__ | "Just wondering if anyone saw the Armistice Day service on TV? | 17:04 |
| kanzure__ | The last 3 surviving British WW1 veterans were able to attend;" | 17:04 |
| kanzure__ | One of them was 112 years old. | 17:04 |
| -!- gene_ is now known as gene | 17:14 | |
| UtopiahGHML | kanzure__: the SEEDmag video was 15min long so I guess it wasn't the IBM talk, Id like to have the link when the copy will be ready | 18:11 |
| kanzure__ | UtopiahGHML: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2874207418572601262&q=almaden+cognitive+computing | 18:15 |
| kanzure__ | http://heybryan.org/mediawiki/index.php/Henry_Markram_computational_neurosci_imitation_project | 18:15 |
| UtopiahGHML | thank you | 18:17 |
| kanzure__ | He has something close to $100 million in funding, 125 postdocs in a dark room tapping away at terminals programming, the whole ordeal. | 18:17 |
| UtopiahGHML | it means he can make people believe and hope in his project but hardly that he will succeed. | 18:19 |
| UtopiahGHML | but as long as he's having fun and we can learn from the experience, I like it :P | 18:20 |
| UtopiahGHML | btw do you have material on the soma part of the neuron and its ability to rewrite itself? | 18:24 |
| kanzure__ | The soma and rewriting itself? | 18:24 |
| UtopiahGHML | Ive read about it in a textbook but since Im not expert in the subject I probably lack the correct vocabulary to find papers on this precise topic | 18:24 |
| kanzure__ | You're not talking about plasticity, are you? | 18:24 |
| UtopiahGHML | nop | 18:24 |
| UtopiahGHML | 1sec for the ref | 18:25 |
| kanzure__ | Try "synaptic plasticity", "excitability plasticity" and then a third type that I am currently forgetting. | 18:25 |
| kanzure__ | Excitability plasticity modifies the soma. | 18:25 |
| UtopiahGHML | [1] "An introduction to brain and behavior" | 18:25 |
| UtopiahGHML | Bryan Kolb, Ian Q. Whishaw from University of Lethbridge, Alberta | 18:25 |
| UtopiahGHML | Worth Publisher 2005 | 18:25 |
| UtopiahGHML | page 78 "Even in a mature, full grown neuron, the cell's generative blueprint can <<reopened>>, allowing the neuron to alter its structure and function by producing new proteins." | 18:25 |
| kanzure__ | I took notes on these types actually ;-) | 18:25 |
| kanzure__ | "reopened" <- grammatical error? | 18:26 |
| UtopiahGHML | reopen I guess | 18:26 |
| kanzure__ | You might have been had; that sounds like typical same-old-same-old genetic expression. | 18:26 |
| kanzure__ | * took notes (today) | 18:27 |
| kanzure__ | Anyway, I'm going off to lunch. | 18:27 |
| kanzure__ | When the server gets back up completely, the /books/mousebrain/ dir is worth exploring, as well as the brainonadisc dir. | 18:27 |
| kanzure__ | http://heybryan.org/mediawiki/index.php/Computational_neuroscience is a good substitute in the mean time | 18:27 |
| kanzure__ | http://heybryan.org/school/buildingbrains/ | 18:27 |
| kanzure__ | http://heybryan.org/school/buildingbrains/all.html (not including the past three lectures though) | 18:28 |
| kanzure__ | I took 6 pages of notes, about 3500 words in a 40 minute period today. | 18:28 |
| kanzure__ | Technically I should be able to type that in about half the time, but the professor stutters frequently. ;-) | 18:28 |
| UtopiahGHML | already used mindmap to takes notes? | 18:28 |
| kanzure__ | Hrm? | 18:29 |
| kanzure__ | I just do audio->text translation for myself. | 18:29 |
| kanzure__ | if I start using mindmap I become Lion King and kill myself. | 18:29 |
| kanzure__ | Lion Kimbro, I mean. | 18:29 |
| UtopiahGHML | ? | 18:29 |
| kanzure__ | http://www.speakeasy.org/~lion/nb/ | 18:29 |
| kanzure__ | http://www.speakeasy.org/~lion/nb/html/doc003.html "If you do the things described in this book, you will be IMMOBILIZED for the duration of your commitment.The immobilization will come on gradually, but steadily. In the end, you will be incapable of doing anything." | 18:30 |
| kanzure__ | And he's absolutely right .. | 18:30 |
| kanzure__ | "How to make a complete map of every thought you think." | 18:31 |
| UtopiahGHML | especially if you write that you are writting that you are writting that... | 18:31 |
| kanzure__ | You go so meta that you realize you've gone sub, somehow. | 18:31 |
| kanzure__ | Anyway, lunchtime. | 18:31 |
| UtopiahGHML | I wanted to write a book called the century of meta | 18:32 |
| UtopiahGHML | but I was too lazy | 18:32 |
| -!- gene_ is now known as gene | 18:36 | |
| UtopiahGHML | kanzure__: regarding Henry Markram ability to raise fund, I can bet that his investment in visualization played a key role. | 18:42 |
| willPow3r | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsL6wNP_oJo | 21:52 |
| fenn | hmm @ "shift in perception of property from commodity to bandwidth" (re eric hunting on land and capital) | 22:04 |
| kanzure__ | Wonder how much of that metaphor he has worked out. | 22:08 |
| fenn | it certainly brings to mind many posthuman scenarios i've read about | 22:10 |
| fenn | hah apparently he has been watching paranoia agent (The state of current car design just makes me want to go Shonen Bat on everybody) | 22:15 |
| bkero | Current car design = Let's make it bigger, add more safety features, heavier, and make it more rounded. | 22:17 |
| fenn | "beefy" | 22:18 |
| * bkero wants a car with 3-4 wheels, weighs under 600lbs, and is shorter than he is. | 22:18 | |
| fenn | dont forget the hover skirt | 22:19 |
| * xp_prg want to create a cell that using photovoltaics to make electricity using an electric eel type approach | 22:22 | |
| fenn | bkero: dunno if i've shown you these yet: http://fennetic.net/sketches/tadpole-plane-0.2-web.jpg http://fennetic.net/sketches/tadpole-0.1-web.jpg | 22:23 |
| fenn | i should 3d model the plane i guess, and show wings attached | 22:24 |
| fenn | anyway, aptera is close enough so just go buy one of theirs | 22:25 |
| kanzure__ | http://heybryan.org/shots/2008-11-12_glxgears.png | 22:28 |
| fenn | i wonder if any of the mileage freaks have played with aerodynamically integrated radiator surfaces | 22:30 |
| fenn | instead of a big box that requires air to be pushed through it constantly | 22:30 |
| * kanzure__ leaves for his algae | 22:35 | |
| fenn | enjoy | 22:36 |
| * fenn putters about aimlessly | 22:36 | |
| fenn | oo its almost time for robo-club | 22:37 |
| ybit | http://www.umbel.org/ | 22:38 |
| fenn | this looks familiar | 22:39 |
| ybit | that's what i said | 22:47 |
| ybit | when it was shown to me | 22:47 |
| bkero | kanzure__: I need to get you to send me some of those algae samples. | 22:48 |
| bkero | Eugene is digesting algae for methane production, and they're just saying LOL WE'LL USE WHATS IN THE POND ALREADY | 22:48 |
| fenn | not bad, but why not go with thermal depolymerization instead, that way you recover 100% of the embodied energy, and it's in a more convenient form (long chain hydrocarbons) | 22:50 |
| fenn | greater capital investment is the barrier i guess | 22:51 |
| fenn | gah i hate when i realize at the end of the article that i'd already read it several months ago | 22:55 |
| ybit | http://fora.tv/2008/07/30/New_Ideas_New_Fuels_Craig_Venter_at_the_Oxonian -- wasn't this video linked from here? | 23:12 |
| -!- gene_ is now known as gene | 23:40 | |
| gene | equations for spirals instead of SVG, generate from library to STL thingy | 23:40 |
| gene | CFD explanations | 23:40 |
| gene | STL/autocad | 23:40 |
| --- Log closed Thu Nov 13 02:19:06 2008 | ||
| --- Log opened Thu Nov 13 02:19:16 2008 | ||
| -!- Irssi: #hplusroadmap: Total of 14 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 14 normal] | 02:19 | |
| -!- Irssi: Join to #hplusroadmap was synced in 75 secs | 02:20 | |
| -!- gene_ is now known as gene | 03:23 | |
| kanzure_ | fennnnnnnn | 03:24 |
| -!- gene is now known as genehacker | 03:24 | |
| kanzure_ | http://unptnt.com/ | 03:24 |
| kanzure_ | http://signup.unptnt.com/ | 03:24 |
| kanzure_ | Austin SKDB clone with possible venture capital funding | 03:24 |
| kanzure_ | D5v | 03:24 |
| genehacker | Kanzure, actlab has 0.3 repraps | 03:24 |
| genehacker | they have all the electronics and a working extruder but not the frame | 03:25 |
| genehacker | now I wonder... | 03:27 |
| genehacker | ras has a CNC | 03:27 |
| genehacker | maybe they could be joined | 03:27 |
| kanzure_ | "joined" ? | 03:30 |
| kanzure_ | fenn: Can you fix the licensing issue with Paul? He confuses me. | 03:31 |
| kanzure_ | bkero: Send algae request by email | 03:32 |
| bkero | kanzure_: k | 03:33 |
| willPow3r | know of any F/OSS geographical information systems? | 03:35 |
| fenn | kanzure_: just slap a "distributed under the terms of the GNU GPL version 2 or later" at the top of your source files | 03:38 |
| kanzure_ | And what if he asks about the repo XML files? | 03:39 |
| kanzure_ | Should I slap up that line there too? | 03:39 |
| fenn | since the repo data copyright belongs to someone else (?) you cant just do that | 03:40 |
| kanzure_ | Why not? | 03:40 |
| kanzure_ | I can just slap up that line in the first case.. | 03:40 |
| kanzure_ | I don't see what's different | 03:40 |
| fenn | because you technically arent allowed to redistribute it in the first place.. uh | 03:40 |
| kanzure_ | it was on the servers? | 03:40 |
| fenn | you wrote the other stuff right? | 03:40 |
| kanzure_ | what are we talking about? | 03:40 |
| kanzure_ | I'm talking about the .repo files I guess | 03:40 |
| kanzure_ | the XML stuff. | 03:40 |
| fenn | http://heybryan.org/~bbishop/docs/manufacturing/ http://heybryan.org/~bbishop/docs/repo/ i think | 03:41 |
| kanzure_ | I mean, the designRepositoryEntryApp thing is GPL'ed | 03:41 |
| kanzure_ | ooh | 03:41 |
| * fenn actually looks at the links | 03:41 | |
| kanzure_ | content added through a GPL'ed app is GPLed :p | 03:41 |
| kanzure_ | can I make up that statement? | 03:41 |
| fenn | hey it's just pdf's | 03:41 |
| kanzure_ | /repo/ is not | 03:41 |
| fenn | content added through a gpl app is not gpl | 03:42 |
| fenn | it seems arbitrary but there are specific operations that make something a "derived work" | 03:42 |
| kanzure_ | specifically? | 03:42 |
| fenn | linking to a binary for example | 03:42 |
| fenn | or simply modifying a fil | 03:43 |
| fenn | file | 03:43 |
| fenn | you need to straighten this out upstream (at ADL) | 03:43 |
| kanzure_ | Okay. | 03:44 |
| kanzure_ | Technically the work that I'm doing at the moment does not suffer from licensing issues. | 03:44 |
| kanzure_ | I'm not using derived data from the repo, and just randomly generating it. | 03:45 |
| fenn | <CreatorInfo CreatorFirstName="michael" CreatorLastName="orlando"> owns the copyright on that particular .repo | 03:45 |
| kanzure_ | Though I am 'linking' or whatever the hell it is in C# to a module of GraphSynth. | 03:45 |
| fenn | i dont know about C# | 03:45 |
| fenn | i'm almost surprised there arent any programs to help sort this legal stuff out | 03:46 |
| kanzure_ | how would these programs work? | 03:46 |
| kanzure_ | and would they sort their own licensing issues out? | 03:47 |
| fenn | there would be various countries with sets of operators (laws) and licenses with sets of terms | 03:47 |
| kanzure_ | GLIN or Global Legal Information Network has some XML stuff like that btw | 03:48 |
| kanzure_ | I can't believe I know that. | 03:48 |
| kanzure_ | ugh | 03:48 |
| kanzure_ | see also legalxml | 03:48 |
| * kanzure_ cries | 03:48 | |
| fenn | it's too bad legal system turned out so subjective | 03:48 |
| fenn | i'd like to know beforehand whether something i do is legal or not | 03:49 |
| fenn | but currently it seems to be up to the whim of a judge | 03:49 |
| fenn | based on their interpretation of "is" or "with intent" | 03:49 |
| kanzure_ | Uh, also the problem of an infinity law book | 03:49 |
| fenn | eh? | 03:49 |
| kanzure_ | thou shalt not execute behavior 5555594914094155555 | 03:50 |
| kanzure_ | crap, my random number generator is broken | 03:50 |
| fenn | GLIN looks to be plain english (or whatever spoken language) | 03:50 |
| kanzure_ | I don't know where I picked up on it. It was probably somewhere that had "XML" near or on the page, and this was just an advertisement thingy. Sorry. | 03:50 |
| fenn | why do we call them programming languages anyway? | 03:51 |
| fenn | they're formalisms | 03:52 |
| kanzure_ | because of the cultures that develop around them? | 03:52 |
| kanzure_ | I don't know. | 03:52 |
| kanzure_ | Is this a trick question? | 03:52 |
| * fenn thnks | 03:52 | |
| fenn | nope no tricks | 03:52 |
| fenn | got some good aspie time in tonight assimilating electronics components at robotics club | 03:53 |
| kanzure_ | Assimilating how? Scurrying them away into boxes and bins? | 03:53 |
| fenn | yes, and also creating a sorting system for the bins | 03:54 |
| fenn | the current system seems to be "random shuffle" | 03:54 |
| kanzure_ | boo random shuffle | 03:54 |
| kanzure_ | actually, when I had an electronics bench, my approach was "leave the men where they fall and die", those being the components | 03:54 |
| fenn | good way to get a header pin stuck in your foot | 03:55 |
| kanzure_ | header pin? | 03:55 |
| fenn | the gold jumper pins like on motherboards | 03:55 |
| kanzure_ | hrm, minor inconvenience | 03:55 |
| fenn | well "leave things where they fall" doesnt exactly work with ten people using the same space | 03:56 |
| kanzure_ | right | 03:56 |
| kanzure_ | prultopia? | 03:57 |
| kanzure_ | proptopia | 03:57 |
| kanzure_ | prulotopia | 03:57 |
| kanzure_ | hrm | 03:57 |
| fenn | root word is? | 03:57 |
| kanzure_ | the people working with unptnt.com | 03:58 |
| kanzure_ | it's a weird term | 03:58 |
| kanzure_ | p??r???topia??? | 03:58 |
| fenn | skdb != project hosting | 03:59 |
| fenn | and what's the point of freeduino.. arduino is already free? | 03:59 |
| kanzure_ | don't know. | 03:59 |
| kanzure_ | skdb != project hosting, it's true, but that doesn't mean that we can't try to do some damage control and so on | 04:00 |
| fenn | why are people giving them money? | 04:00 |
| kanzure_ | hell if I know, but the venture capitalist was standing right there next to me and seemed enthusiastic about this stuff. | 04:01 |
| kanzure_ | "is 'good will' an adequate explanation?" | 04:01 |
| fenn | yes | 04:02 |
| kanzure_ | huh. | 04:02 |
| fenn | but frankly it's not a viable business plan :) | 04:02 |
| fenn | do they have 501c3 status? | 04:02 |
| kanzure_ | "super secret pre-pre-pre alpha" | 04:02 |
| kanzure_ | as if they want to go IPO on it? wtf? | 04:02 |
| fenn | non profit is a tax status, it doesnt mean you cant make money | 04:03 |
| kanzure_ | oh, sorry, 501c3 is nonprofit | 04:03 |
| kanzure_ | 501c3's don't do IPOs | 04:03 |
| fenn | however you're more likely to succeed i think, though the maximum possible payout is much lower (not millions of dollars) | 04:04 |
| fenn | but wtf are people going to do with millions of dollars anyway | 04:04 |
| fenn | blow it all on expensive handbags and wine | 04:04 |
| kanzure_ | it's "invisible" to the rest of us. | 04:04 |
| fenn | i'd probably buy an island | 04:05 |
| fenn | or maybe a really sweet dirigible | 04:06 |
| fenn | then i'd fill it with hydrogen just to piss off all the idiots who think it's dangerous | 04:07 |
| * fenn has a sense of deja vu | 04:07 | |
| kanzure_ | So I'm apparently a grad student to most people. | 04:10 |
| kanzure_ | I wonder if I could get a graduate standing position by lying about an undergraduate degree. | 04:10 |
| fenn | i like the (Un) lightbulb | 04:11 |
| fenn | i wonder if they will trademark it :) | 04:11 |
| fenn | kanzure_: compared to most undergrads you might as well be a grad student | 04:11 |
| kanzure_ | compared to the grad students in the MAD lab (parent lab of ADL) I might as well be grad too | 04:12 |
| fenn | however, colleges make money by forcing students to go through years of classes, so it's not easy to test your way through a whole degree | 04:12 |
| kanzure_ | well, there are the tests and exams, but I'm not good at supercramming and predicting what will be on the final/exam-accelerator-thingies | 04:12 |
| kanzure_ | In fact I'm not good on any test these days. | 04:13 |
| kanzure_ | uh oh | 04:23 |
| kanzure_ | external hdd has a bad superblock | 04:23 |
| kanzure_ | What do I do? | 04:23 |
| fenn | reboot! | 04:25 |
| fenn | the problem is in your gigabytes | 04:25 |
| * fenn mumbles something about ddrescue | 04:25 | |
| kanzure_ | so one of the demonstrations at the actlab tonight for 'dorkbot' was a hdd converted into an mp3 player | 04:27 |
| kanzure_ | This was full audio from the hard drives. | 04:28 |
| kanzure_ | Something about a hdd working much like an amplifier. | 04:28 |
| kanzure_ | Okay. Server is back up. I'm somehow shorting the circuit on the desktop's motherboard though. | 04:30 |
| fenn | yeah that originated on afrotech i think | 04:33 |
| kanzure_ | So I was wondering how high that sort of frequency could go. heh' | 04:34 |
| kanzure_ | It can do dog whistles, I know that much. | 04:34 |
| * kanzure_ is so cheap. | 04:34 | |
| fenn | inverse of seek time | 04:35 |
| kanzure_ | reciprocal? | 04:35 |
| fenn | so 1/5ms = 200Hz | 04:36 |
| kanzure_ | are you sure it's in terms of ms units? | 04:36 |
| kanzure_ | because 1/.05 would be great | 04:36 |
| fenn | i'm probably all wrong, since i know it can go higher than 200hz | 04:36 |
| kanzure_ | Grumble grumble. mocp crashed the server. | 04:42 |
| genehacker | so the VC was interested in SKDB type things? | 04:42 |
| genehacker | Fenn Zeppelin's are awesome | 04:43 |
| kanzure_ | Yes. | 04:43 |
| genehacker | I'd love to build one | 04:43 |
| fenn | i've had the "personal bicycle blimp" discussion many times | 04:43 |
| kanzure_ | So I've lost track of the conversation, what have I missed? Everything since I last sent a message. | 04:44 |
| genehacker | yes | 04:45 |
| fenn | 2340 kanzure quites 2342 kanzure joins.. nothing happened between | 04:45 |
| genehacker | ah yes the ol bike blimp | 04:45 |
| fenn | genehacker: even better if you can generate electricity with it while tethered | 04:45 |
| fenn | (and use as a wifi/ronja relay of course) | 04:46 |
| genehacker | ok, now I haven't heard of that one | 04:46 |
| fenn | that was the plan when my plan was moving out to dialup boonies | 04:46 |
| genehacker | so why would a VC be interested in stuff like this | 04:48 |
| kanzure_ | good will? | 04:49 |
| genehacker | 2.??? | 04:49 |
| genehacker | 3.Profit | 04:50 |
| genehacker | ? | 04:50 |
| fenn | venturecat has no profit motive | 04:51 |
| fenn | <insert picture of stray cat here> | 04:51 |
| genehacker | so what they had was a project library? | 04:51 |
| kanzure_ | Nah, they're like github but for open hardware projects. | 04:51 |
| genehacker | what's github | 04:52 |
| kanzure_ | it's a hub for git repositories. | 04:53 |
| fenn | like sourceforge but less teh suck | 04:53 |
| genehacker | was it something like instructables? | 04:55 |
| kanzure_ | No. Instructables is more about tutorials than it is about designs, files, repositories, forking, cloning, etc. | 04:55 |
| kanzure_ | One of the features that I'm pushing for is automated instruction generator, | 04:57 |
| kanzure_ | much like the origami work that we were talking about earlier this year. | 04:57 |
| genehacker | did you tell them about that? | 04:57 |
| kanzure_ | No. It's hard to do a full brain dump in 5 minutes flat. | 04:58 |
| genehacker | well you did tell them about autodesign | 04:58 |
| genehacker | the automated design lab | 04:58 |
| kanzure_ | That's because of VOICED. | 04:58 |
| fenn | one would hope they might be thinking about automated design | 04:58 |
| genehacker | what's that? | 04:58 |
| kanzure_ | Virtual Organization for Innovative Conceptual Engineering Design | 04:59 |
| kanzure_ | I have NSF funding. | 04:59 |
| genehacker | to do what again? | 04:59 |
| kanzure_ | SKDB, basically. | 04:59 |
| genehacker | I missed the presentation what did he talk about again? | 05:01 |
| kanzure_ | http://unptnt.com/ | 05:01 |
| kanzure_ | but also some other website that I can't remember the name of | 05:02 |
| genehacker | replicators? | 05:02 |
| kanzure_ | No. | 05:02 |
| kanzure_ | prolotopia? prultopia? porotopia? prulatopia? prulatopia was probably it. | 05:02 |
| genehacker | repository of product files ready to print off | 05:02 |
| genehacker | open manufacturing processes? | 05:03 |
| kanzure_ | No, it's a website. Prolutopia or protopia or somesuch. | 05:03 |
| genehacker | that's it? | 05:04 |
| genehacker | just a website you collaborate with people on? | 05:04 |
| * ybit wants to read kanzure's response to paul on om mailing list | 05:06 | |
| genehacker | just a repository for stuff? | 05:06 |
| ybit | concerning licensing | 05:06 |
| genehacker | that's free? | 05:06 |
| kanzure_ | ybit: "Eat it" | 05:06 |
| kanzure_ | ybit: :-/ | 05:06 |
| kanzure_ | genehacker: Well, that's the part that they're doing, and if they think they can get contributors then that's great, SKDB is more like the backend to their system if they want | 05:07 |
| genehacker | so it looks like they'll sell either ads or support for the stuff on the website | 05:08 |
| genehacker | nothing new there | 05:08 |
| kanzure_ | Huh? | 05:08 |
| genehacker | at least on the front of it | 05:08 |
| kanzure_ | Nobody said it will be profitable. | 05:09 |
| genehacker | so can I see the gear visualizer? | 05:10 |
| kanzure_ | One sec. | 05:10 |
| kanzure_ | Ah, I lost my logs from today. One more sec. | 05:10 |
| genehacker | and what are you currently doing with that NSF funding? | 05:10 |
| kanzure_ | http://heybryan.org/shots/2008-11-12_glxgears.png | 05:11 |
| kanzure_ | NSF funding? Paycheck. | 05:11 |
| kanzure_ | and that's why we have project money in here now | 05:11 |
| genehacker | what are they paying you for? | 05:11 |
| kanzure_ | My work. | 05:12 |
| genehacker | writing gear code | 05:12 |
| kanzure_ | No, the gear stuff is just one side project. | 05:12 |
| genehacker | So it looks to me like the gear visualizer might not be useful to our reverse engineering project | 05:12 |
| kanzure_ | Why? | 05:13 |
| fenn | what's the big deal with the glxgears screenshot? | 05:13 |
| kanzure_ | dunno, somebody wanted to see it I guess | 05:14 |
| kanzure_ | and was apparently impressed | 05:14 |
| kanzure_ | heh' | 05:14 |
| kanzure_ | "ooh! pretty!" | 05:14 |
| fenn | ooh a demo program! | 05:14 |
| kanzure_ | "I feel like we're doing something productive!" | 05:14 |
| genehacker | oh no bryan | 05:14 |
| genehacker | I wasn't impressed | 05:14 |
| kanzure_ | No, I'm not talking about you | 05:14 |
| genehacker | I knew what you did | 05:14 |
| genehacker | heh | 05:14 |
| fenn | kanzure_: maybe if it were in flash, with an AJAX frontend and SQL server | 05:14 |
| kanzure_ | fenn: You know I hate myself for writing all this stupid AJAX stuff, yes? | 05:15 |
| fenn | why is it called AJAX again? | 05:15 |
| kanzure_ | asynchronous javascript and xml | 05:15 |
| genehacker | unless the software for making the gears can be used to figure out the right combination of gears such that the ammunition dispensing piston and the cartridge advancer move at different times so they don't jam up | 05:16 |
| fenn | "Despite the name, the use of JavaScript, XML, or its asynchronous use is not required." Buzzword Alert! | 05:16 |
| genehacker | then it's pretty much useless to us | 05:16 |
| kanzure_ | genehacker: yeah, Albert's software can do that | 05:16 |
| genehacker | really? | 05:17 |
| kanzure_ | fenn: wtf is it if it's not js/xml/asynchreneity ? | 05:17 |
| kanzure_ | does PHP+flash count? isn't that just php+flash then? | 05:17 |
| genehacker | I explain to you how the cartridge advancer and ammunition dispenser piston work right? | 05:17 |
| kanzure_ | I don't know | 05:18 |
| genehacker | well then | 05:18 |
| genehacker | looks like I might have to send you something | 05:18 |
| fenn | machine gun mechanism is pretty simple and reliable | 05:18 |
| genehacker | this is a machine catapult fenn | 05:18 |
| genehacker | it's a bit different | 05:18 |
| fenn | what's the power source? | 05:19 |
| fenn | i'd be tempted to make a giant mini-mag (paintball gun type) using compressed air | 05:19 |
| genehacker | ideal power source: tamiya gearbox | 05:20 |
| genehacker | power source I am likely to use: hand crank | 05:20 |
| fenn | ever taken apart an airsoft gun? | 05:20 |
| genehacker | no | 05:21 |
| fenn | that's basically a tamiya gearbox | 05:21 |
| genehacker | a tamiya gearbox isn | 05:21 |
| genehacker | a special name for a mechanism | 05:21 |
| genehacker | it's a brand name | 05:21 |
| fenn | yes i know | 05:21 |
| fenn | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:AEG.gif | 05:22 |
| genehacker | http://www.tamiyausa.com/product/item.php?product-id=70103 | 05:22 |
| genehacker | this is what I mean by tamiya gear box | 05:22 |
| genehacker | holy crap | 05:22 |
| genehacker | that's pretty much my mechanism | 05:23 |
| genehacker | but a bit different | 05:23 |
| genehacker | FACEPALM | 05:23 |
| genehacker | I just reinvented the wheel | 05:23 |
| fenn | congratulations, you are now an engineer | 05:23 |
| genehacker | though | 05:24 |
| genehacker | this is an automated catapult | 05:24 |
| genehacker | meaning it uses an arm to throw projectiles | 05:25 |
| genehacker | it also uses plastic pigs | 05:25 |
| genehacker | which aren't round like balls | 05:26 |
| fenn | that's why you stuff them in short sections of pvc pipe | 05:26 |
| genehacker | which means I can't load them in a hopper and shoot them as easily | 05:26 |
| fenn | hoppers dont work well even for balls | 05:26 |
| genehacker | HAHAHAHAHA PVC pipe | 05:26 |
| genehacker | Fenn, I'm printing this out on a 3d printer | 05:26 |
| fenn | why/ | 05:26 |
| genehacker | because that's what the assignment is | 05:27 |
| fenn | waste of resin | 05:27 |
| fenn | sigh... nevermind | 05:27 |
| genehacker | what 3d printers use resin? | 05:27 |
| fenn | go stick your head in the sand please | 05:27 |
| genehacker | this one uses plastic | 05:27 |
| fenn | FDM? | 05:27 |
| genehacker | yeah | 05:27 |
| kanzure_ | SLS | 05:27 |
| genehacker | nope | 05:27 |
| genehacker | but we might have to use the SLS | 05:28 |
| genehacker | given the FDMs | 05:28 |
| genehacker | current condition | 05:28 |
| fenn | if you're making large numbers of identical plastic pigs, why not do injection moulding? | 05:28 |
| fenn | or blow moulding | 05:28 |
| genehacker | not printing that | 05:28 |
| fenn | you could 3d print a blow mould | 05:29 |
| genehacker | I see no need to | 05:29 |
| fenn | jello mould | 05:30 |
| genehacker | you do have a point there | 05:30 |
| fenn | "made from real pig parts (tm)" | 05:30 |
| genehacker | the printer doesn't have that kind of resolution | 05:31 |
| fenn | oo it would be cool if you could make a pig shaped hotdog | 05:31 |
| genehacker | meat shaped like meat? | 05:31 |
| fenn | you could make a meat/jello slurry and cast it in blow-moulded cellulose wrappers | 05:32 |
| fenn | or whatever the aburage process is called in english | 05:32 |
| genehacker | I don't want to 3d model a pig | 05:33 |
| genehacker | there's no way I could do that | 05:33 |
| fenn | i thought that was the whole point | 05:33 |
| fenn | http://www.turbosquid.com/FullPreview/Index.cfm/ID/204391 | 05:35 |
| fenn | $35 pig STL | 05:35 |
| fenn | but i'm sure you can do that | 05:36 |
| fenn | what are rubber duckies made of? | 05:37 |
| genehacker | I could buy 432 plastic pigs for that price | 05:37 |
| genehacker | depends | 05:37 |
| kanzure_ | Hm. Homework or sleep? | 05:38 |
| genehacker | Homework | 05:38 |
| genehacker | sleep is for slackers | 05:38 |
| genehacker | Hmm... | 05:39 |
| kanzure_ | It's weird, I can do allnighters when it interests me, but otherwise it just tires me. | 05:39 |
| kanzure_ | Sleep. | 05:39 |
| * kanzure_ sleeps | 05:39 | |
| genehacker | so you said that software can do phase and stuff? | 05:39 |
| genehacker | phases I mean | 05:40 |
| fenn | what software? | 05:40 |
| genehacker | gear software that kanzure's talking about | 05:40 |
| kanzure_ | What does phase refer to when talking about gears? | 05:42 |
| kanzure_ | Albert Swantner <aswantner@gmail.com> has the source code. Maybe he will send it if you ask really really nicely. | 05:43 |
| genehacker | as I go through a rotation thing A happens over theta degrees | 05:43 |
| genehacker | thing B happens at theta + x degrees | 05:43 |
| bkero | fenn: Did the LOVE guy ever get back to you? | 05:44 |
| genehacker | IE as I turn the crank, the piston goes in and out of the cartridge before the cartridge is advanced | 05:44 |
| kanzure_ | yeah, angle is in this | 05:44 |
| genehacker | could you ask him? | 05:45 |
| kanzure_ | About angles? | 05:45 |
| genehacker | yeah | 05:46 |
| genehacker | if you could | 05:46 |
| kanzure_ | I know that it's in the system. | 05:46 |
| kanzure_ | because it's a requirement for the file format that he and I talked about ;-) | 05:46 |
| genehacker | you might be thinking of teeth angle | 05:46 |
| kanzure_ | No. | 05:46 |
| kanzure_ | No teeth angle information. | 05:46 |
| genehacker | not phase angle | 05:46 |
| genehacker | well it might help me a lot | 05:46 |
| genehacker | I've been doing some calculations and have been getting some weird results | 05:47 |
| genehacker | which means that either my math is wrong | 05:47 |
| genehacker | or that it doesn't work | 05:47 |
| fenn | bkero: no | 05:48 |
| bkero | :( | 05:49 |
| kanzure_ | Does anybody remember that latest game that demoed an ability to go through 4 or 5 dimensions at once? | 05:49 |
| kanzure_ | Something about being able to stretch things through the dimensions and making really cool use of the monitor. | 05:49 |
| kanzure_ | I'd like to see if there's an API for applying that to generalized N dimensional data sets, like my graph permutation tree. | 05:49 |
| fenn | curved spaces? | 05:49 |
| kanzure_ | was that the name of the game? | 05:49 |
| kanzure_ | The name might have had something like 'crystal' in its title. | 05:50 |
| genehacker | dang | 05:50 |
| genehacker | 5 dim game? | 05:51 |
| kanzure_ | It was a space shooter of some sort. | 05:51 |
| kanzure_ | Steve will know. | 05:51 |
| kanzure_ | Which IRC network did I leave Steve on? | 05:51 |
| genehacker | I've been trying to find some 3d glasses so I can try out stereo rendering on my computer | 05:51 |
| fenn | genehacker: you know the polarized glasses + saran wrap trick? | 05:52 |
| genehacker | no | 05:52 |
| genehacker | I need anaglyph glasses | 05:52 |
| genehacker | I do know the trick however | 05:52 |
| genehacker | http://www.geometrygames.org/CurvedSpaces/ | 05:54 |
| genehacker | do you mean this kanzure? | 05:54 |
| fenn | for some reason i think of your nick as being a real name, like "eugene a. hacker" | 05:54 |
| genehacker | crap | 05:54 |
| genehacker | my true identity has been revealed | 05:55 |
| -!- genehacker is now known as gene | 05:55 | |
| -!- gene is now known as anon | 05:55 | |
| fenn | surprised that isnt taken already | 05:56 |
| kanzure_ | watch him be kicked in a few minutes. | 05:56 |
| anon | How did you know my middle name started with an a though? | 05:56 |
| fenn | i'm psychic | 05:57 |
| anon | heh | 05:57 |
| fenn | being psychic is not particularly desirable | 05:58 |
| anon | indeed | 05:59 |
| fenn | you know all sorts of things like "i'm going to miss the train" and then it happens and you're still stuck | 05:59 |
| anon | especially if you know what I am thinking of right now | 05:59 |
| fenn | indeed. | 05:59 |
| kanzure_ | The actlab keeps a kid around by the name of Drake. He finished uni at age 13, and has hung around ever since and is now 18 or 19 or something. They call him their 'resident genius'. So tonight he was talking about some markov models for speech recognition for a game of telephone with robots whispering words to each other, as well as some infrared LED message passing protocols. Not sure how much 'genius' it takes for that, except the uni thing. Dal | 06:00 |
| kanzure_ | why doesn't irssi split up my messages. | 06:01 |
| anon | Is he the guy that started teh reprap? | 06:02 |
| kanzure_ | No. | 06:02 |
| fenn | gah anon get out of my mind | 06:02 |
| kanzure_ | Brandon started reprap. | 06:02 |
| kanzure_ | Brandon Wiley also did freenet and bittorrent work | 06:02 |
| anon | indeed | 06:02 |
| kanzure_ | maradydd's husband bunked with whoever did bittorrent originally | 06:03 |
| fenn | bram cohen? | 06:03 |
| kanzure_ | yeah, that guy. | 06:03 |
| kanzure_ | Apparently Bram married a superpornstar. | 06:03 |
| * fenn wonders what that means | 06:03 | |
| kanzure_ | quite literally a porn star. | 06:03 |
| kanzure_ | aspied his way into that one. | 06:04 |
| anon | I don't understand how that is possible | 06:04 |
| anon | social engineering? | 06:04 |
| kanzure_ | Mostly social engineering of himself more than anything else. | 06:05 |
| fenn | i find it highly improbable that this isnt mentioned on wikipedia | 06:06 |
| fenn | http://valleywag.com/5067348/bram-cohens-wife-comes-to-his-defense | 06:08 |
| kanzure_ | Jenna Cohen. There we go. | 06:11 |
| fenn | so i just need to write awful stories and the babes will come looking for me? | 06:19 |
| anon | no you have to aspie | 06:21 |
| fenn | i think generally that's the problem | 06:21 |
| bkero | Mmm mmm dillo dillo | 07:51 |
| willPow3r | im installing mapguide opensouce on my linux server | 13:50 |
| kanzure_ | What is it? | 13:50 |
| willPow3r | its for collecting and distributing geospatial data over the web | 13:51 |
| willPow3r | http://www.opengeospatial.org/ | 13:51 |
| kanzure_ | Gah, their 'standards' page. | 13:52 |
| willPow3r | i'm trying to find a complementary copy of autocad map 3d | 13:52 |
| kanzure_ | CityGML sounds worth clicking. | 13:52 |
| kanzure_ | Autocad map 3D, eh? I haven't heard of Autocad doing any mapping stuff. | 13:53 |
| willPow3r | its really just hosting software | 13:53 |
| kanzure_ | Hosting how? | 13:53 |
| kanzure_ | An HTTP server daemon? | 13:53 |
| willPow3r | believe it or not, autodesk made an opensource version | 13:53 |
| willPow3r | yeah | 13:53 |
| willPow3r | apache extensions more or less | 13:53 |
| kanzure_ | Fun stuff. | 13:53 |
| kanzure_ | I'll have to look into that. | 13:53 |
| willPow3r | its like google earth with overlays for collected geographical data | 13:54 |
| kanzure_ | I'm trying to determine where opengeospatial.org is keeping data. | 13:54 |
| willPow3r | the only problem i can find is that most corporations are going to keep that data secret | 13:54 |
| willPow3r | the data they find while searching for petroleum etc. | 13:54 |
| kanzure_ | Right. | 13:54 |
| kanzure_ | There's actually a US govt office for keeping track of that information. | 13:55 |
| kanzure_ | I don't have the link off the top of my head, but I might have something in /books/ including the data set. | 13:55 |
| willPow3r | exactly, noaa etc. keep all that online | 13:55 |
| kanzure_ | It's basically a very poor geographical annotation/markup of major mines and so on | 13:55 |
| kanzure_ | NOAA is it? | 13:55 |
| willPow3r | http://data.geocomm.com/catalog/index.html | 13:55 |
| willPow3r | well, they're only one of the agencies that keeps data like that | 13:55 |
| willPow3r | and, apparently, this geospatial data can be fed into autocad somehow | 13:56 |
| willPow3r | i'm trying to figure that out | 13:56 |
| kanzure_ | Yeah, so what I was originally thinking of doing was to come up with this giant index of material suppliers worldwide, but in a reverse manner | 13:56 |
| kanzure_ | see, the major trading websites keep their 'supply network' behind closed doors even once you register and ask for bids on projects | 13:56 |
| willPow3r | suppliers by material? | 13:56 |
| kanzure_ | yeah, sort of | 13:56 |
| kanzure_ | There's the mindat.org dataset, which tries to do that, then there's my latest matweb.com dataset; | 13:56 |
| kanzure_ | then with the NOAA dataset, I was hoping I could do some cross-reference, | 13:57 |
| kanzure_ | and if there's some locations that aren't in the mindat.org dataset, then feed those into Google Maps and try to figure out what business exists at those geocoords | 13:57 |
| kanzure_ | and then somehow figure out their URL. | 13:57 |
| kanzure_ | (URLs mapped to geographical areas .. blah, what has this world come to.) | 13:57 |
| kanzure_ | Alright, I'm off to calculus. | 13:58 |
| willPow3r | have fun | 13:58 |
| willPow3r | http://66.75.6.181 <-- my opensource mapguide server | 13:59 |
| willPow3r | it works, apparently | 13:59 |
| willPow3r | at least the compiled-from-source apache daemon does | 14:00 |
| willPow3r | hmm. how in the fuck does an oss project rely on an expensive ESRI database server? | 14:10 |
| willPow3r | oh nm. it can use mysql | 14:13 |
| bkero | lol | 15:33 |
| UtopiahGHML | B citizen only : http://www.indymedia.org.uk/images/2004/05/292199.jpg | 17:56 |
| kanzure__ | http://www.math.ucsd.edu/~sbuss/CourseWeb/CSE167_2003F/final/jordan_matthew_gordon/ | 18:13 |
| kanzure__ | It's a Star Wars game they made for a final. :) | 18:18 |
| * kanzure__ was thinking of making an xwing cameo appearance in the gear thingy | 18:18 | |
| UtopiahGHML | http://fr.news.yahoo.com/2/20081113/thl-electrostimulation-du-cerveau-une-re-96993ab.html | 19:27 |
| fenn | ubuntu will be making a ARM Cortex-A8/9 port: http://linuxdevices.com/news/NS9527593286.html | 19:27 |
| fenn | this will be good for beagleboard | 19:27 |
| fenn | and other mobile computing shenanigans | 19:28 |
| bkero | Yea | 19:32 |
| UtopiahGHML | Five-Year Follow-up of Bilateral Stimulation of the Subthalamic Nucleus in Advanced Parkinson's Disease http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/full/349/20/1925 | 19:32 |
| bkero | They're expecting an ARM netbook | 19:32 |
| bkero | Which would be fucking awesome | 19:32 |
| bkero | Also, handhelds.org already has an ubuntu arm port :{ | 19:32 |
| bkero | :P | 19:32 |
| UtopiahGHML | http://beagleboard.org/ "ultra-low cost, high performance, low power OMAP3 based platform " | 19:33 |
| UtopiahGHML | (woops didn't see you were actually already mentionning beagleboard :) | 19:38 |
| bkero | I have a beagle board :) | 19:44 |
| bkero | It's a fun little critter | 19:44 |
| bkero | And it can be powered by USB - badass | 19:45 |
| fenn | bkero: what are you doing with it? | 19:47 |
| bkero | fenn: gentooizing :) | 19:50 |
| bkero | As far as a purpose, I'm not sure yet. | 19:51 |
| fenn | well looks like the $100 laptop is finally here, from hong kong: http://www.jointech.com.hk/jl7100.html | 19:51 |
| bkero | uh | 19:51 |
| bkero | 64mb ram, 64mb rom, alright | 19:52 |
| fenn | "what" you say, "its not green?" | 19:52 |
| fenn | certainly not enough ram, but that seems to be the way these things go for some reason | 19:52 |
| bkero | I wonder how much they would cost without windows XP. | 19:52 |
| fenn | win CE | 19:52 |
| fenn | there's no XP ARM port | 19:53 |
| bkero | Screenshots are XP | 19:53 |
| UtopiahGHML | bkero: have you tried to add a tiny multitouch screen to make a modile device (a la Internet Tablet) | 19:53 |
| * fenn cant tell one grassy knoll from another | 19:53 | |
| bkero | UtopiahGHML: No, I already had a nokia 770 for that | 19:53 |
| bkero | fenn: show me a screenshot of a windows ce grassy knoll | 19:53 |
| bkero | Wait....That's an Eee 701. I owned one | 19:54 |
| UtopiahGHML | bkero: tried the N810 Wimax? | 19:54 |
| bkero | It's white, but that's it | 19:54 |
| bkero | UtopiahGHML: My friend has an N800, used it for a while. He also works for clearwire, which is behind wimax. It's fucking vaporware until you can buy service and hardware. | 19:55 |
| UtopiahGHML | N810 Wimax has ... Wimax and you have some ISP in Moscow and tests in Paris | 19:55 |
| fenn | are you talking about 802.11n? | 19:56 |
| bkero | fenn: That laptop, look at the right side. USB ports, VGA port, SD card port are all in the same spot. The LCD bumpstops are in the same place. Same mouse, same power button | 19:56 |
| bkero | It's an Eee 701 without branding | 19:56 |
| fenn | bkero: they all look like that | 19:56 |
| bkero | No dude, I've owned an Eee 701, and now a Dell Mini Inspiron 9. I know what they all look like | 19:57 |
| bkero | Three of my friends have them, I see them at my house all the time | 19:57 |
| bkero | There is not a single physical difference besides the badge shape on the top | 19:57 |
| UtopiahGHML | bkero: heard any N810 but more "up to date" (kind of old HW now) | 20:00 |
| bkero | You want a newer internet tablet? | 20:01 |
| UtopiahGHML | and open, unlike Archos and such | 20:01 |
| UtopiahGHML | (didn't try them personnaly but I asked in the channel and guys there say it was Linux but still not really that open) | 20:02 |
| bkero | There aren't any | 20:02 |
| UtopiahGHML | :\ | 20:02 |
| bkero | Nokia published the distro they're using, called maemo | 20:02 |
| UtopiahGHML | yep I checked that | 20:02 |
| UtopiahGHML | but it doesn't have real VGA out does it? Id like that too ;) | 20:02 |
| bkero | Just get a small laptop and call it good | 20:03 |
| bkero | Eee 900A's are at best buy for $280 now | 20:03 |
| UtopiahGHML | I have an X31 | 20:03 |
| bkero | N810 is about as good as you're going to get | 20:03 |
| UtopiahGHML | k, thanks | 20:03 |
| bkero | You could get an iPhone and use video out :P | 20:04 |
| UtopiahGHML | not the most open device out there :/ | 20:05 |
| kanzure__ | ADL needs a grad student. | 20:07 |
| fenn | oo oo me me | 20:08 |
| kanzure__ | fenn: Are you serious? | 20:10 |
| fenn | yep | 20:10 |
| kanzure__ | Do you want me to put in a word for you? | 20:10 |
| fenn | uh.. i guess | 20:11 |
| fenn | i want you to help me figure out what is going on in professor/administrator's mind | 20:11 |
| kanzure__ | excuse me? | 20:11 |
| fenn | ok so i'll apply and then when they dont respond you can ask them | 20:12 |
| kanzure__ | btw, what was your SMIRF stuff? How was it supposed to 'improve' anything? was it "wait until you get 10,000 pieces of user feedback"? We're thinking of doing some smybolic regression analysis where we 'co-evolve' a simulator to provide smooth user feedback, because user feedback is too scattered. | 20:12 |
| kanzure__ | fenn: I could walk down the hall. | 20:13 |
| fenn | smooth user feedback? | 20:13 |
| kanzure__ | Imagine user clicking on "hot or not" for 20 times | 20:13 |
| fenn | smirf was basically MMO x CAD x open source | 20:13 |
| kanzure__ | 20 data points is not enough to get a good function going there | 20:13 |
| kanzure__ | but what if you had regression on there | 20:14 |
| kanzure__ | and try to figure out a good function? | 20:14 |
| kanzure__ | Then you have your 'generator' ping back the 'smoothalizer' (instead of directly to the user) | 20:14 |
| fenn | 20 data points isnt enough? | 20:14 |
| kanzure__ | if your graph has 300 nodes, and you've generated 10,000 graphs | 20:14 |
| kanzure__ | 20 clicks of "I hate this, I hate this", just narrows it down to you possibly hating just substitution rules with IDs <list here> .. | 20:15 |
| fenn | hmm | 20:15 |
| kanzure__ | I'm only asking because of SMIRF, not because of the need for a grad student | 20:15 |
| fenn | smirf was born out of the gaping hole in open source cad software | 20:16 |
| fenn | it's not automated design | 20:16 |
| kanzure__ | "challenge the players to enhance the physics simulation" | 20:16 |
| fenn | however, there was supposed to be a sort of "realtime" FEA and physics simulation | 20:16 |
| fenn | so you could play with the design, instead of having a dead static drawing | 20:16 |
| fenn | and it would do stuff in the world, slowly replacing dungeons&dragons style "points" systems with procedural simulations | 20:17 |
| fenn | that's what all the alpha/beta star chaotic orbit is about | 20:17 |
| fenn | so you can look up in the sky and see "magic is loose in the world!" | 20:17 |
| fenn | to borrow a quote from heinlein :) | 20:18 |
| fenn | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waldo_(short_story) | 20:18 |
| kanzure__ | Hm. Hod talks of an integrated robotic design+manufacture machine. | 20:30 |
| kanzure__ | for "robotic ecologies". | 20:30 |
| kanzure__ | so he uses agency as a means of bridging the gap, that's peculiar. | 20:31 |
| kanzure__ | I think I was talking about this on SL4 once. | 20:31 |
| fenn | agency? | 20:31 |
| kanzure__ | Basically if you have this 'robot' that you are testing in an unknown, unpredictable environment, you wonder what the minimal set of programs you send with the robot/machine into that environment for problem solving. | 20:32 |
| fenn | that doesnt make sense | 20:32 |
| kanzure__ | Something about bounding maximal return on investment or somesuch. | 20:32 |
| kanzure__ | no, it doesn't. | 20:32 |
| fenn | if you dont know what to include you should include as much as possible | 20:32 |
| kanzure__ | This was an email from 2006, so nevermind | 20:32 |
| kanzure__ | I shouldn't talk about things I haven't seen in forever | 20:32 |
| kanzure__ | Anyway, they do "robot ecologies" so that they have agency for context sniffing to figure out what a bette design might be. | 20:33 |
| kanzure__ | *better | 20:33 |
| kanzure__ | (and instead of the sniffing information to go directly back to the GA search tree, it goes back to a simulator; the simulator then remains consistent to the environment, plus or minus weird predictions, so that the GA-of-the-robot-tree can ping the simulator and get back more smooth information to figure out optimal designs) | 20:34 |
| nsh | http://www.princeton.edu/main/news/archive/S22/60/95O56/index.xml?section=topstories | 20:38 |
| nsh | (don't forget, guys, everyone is painfully stupid) | 20:38 |
| * fenn braces for the impact | 20:39 | |
| fenn | yeah, conserved sequences | 20:40 |
| fenn | is this news? | 20:40 |
| kanzure__ | http://3dprintables.org/ | 20:42 |
| nsh | kanzure_, can you access http://scitation.aip.org/getpdf/servlet/GetPDFServlet?filetype=pdf&id=PRLTAO000100000025258103000001&idtype=cvips | 20:49 |
| nsh | (Physical Review Letters) | 20:50 |
| kanzure__ | Hm. An interesting approach would be to just say "how far can we push automated design and of what". That would be fun. It would give us an excuse for the automated design of really big things. | 20:50 |
| nsh | kanzure_? | 20:53 |
| nsh | nm | 20:54 |
| UtopiahGHML | http://www.voltaicsystems.com/bag_generator.shtml so expensive :/ | 20:57 |
| kanzure__ | "We address the issues of Fully Automated Design (FAD), .." starts one Lipson paper. | 21:02 |
| kanzure__ | " That is why we first focus and develop the | 21:07 |
| kanzure__ | conventional algorithms for conservatively simulating | 21:07 |
| kanzure__ | structures, and then parallelize into agents, rather than | 21:07 |
| kanzure__ | hoping some simple pre-programmed behavior primitives | 21:07 |
| kanzure__ | will scale. | 21:07 |
| kanzure__ | http://dhcp-84-253.me.utexas.edu/lipson.zip | 21:17 |
| kanzure__ | fenn: You'd have to do a phone interview with him probably. | 21:20 |
| kanzure__ | nsh: http://dhcp-84-253.me.utexas.edu/PhysRevLett_100_258103.pdf | 21:22 |
| UtopiahGHML | Subthalamic Nucleus Stimulation in Severe Obsessive.Compulsive Disorder http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/short/359/20/2121 (that was the article I wanted to share...) | 21:22 |
| kanzure__ | Does it increase OCD? | 21:23 |
| UtopiahGHML | :) | 21:24 |
| UtopiahGHML | Conclusions These preliminary findings suggest that stimulation of the subthalamic nucleus may reduce the symptoms of severe forms of OCD but is associated with a substantial risk of serious adverse events. | 21:24 |
| kanzure__ | Not interested. | 21:25 |
| kanzure__ | Show me what increases OCD and then I'll start to be interested. | 21:25 |
| UtopiahGHML | why increase OCD | 21:25 |
| kanzure__ | It's one of the ways you tweak variables, so that you know that your variable you think you have is really associated with what you're observing. | 21:27 |
| kanzure__ | It becomes very obvious when you shine a laser in your eye. | 21:27 |
| UtopiahGHML | if the technique stimulate to inhibit I guess it could also be used to do the opposite when knowledge on the topic will improve | 21:28 |
| procto | the problem with tweaking the variables in your very perception system | 21:29 |
| procto | is that you can only feel that difference that you mentioned when things are back to "baseline" | 21:30 |
| procto | except you may not necessarily know when you're truly at baseline again, if ever | 21:30 |
| kanzure__ | fenn: re: your question about fab@home; the reason why is because it was an attempt to promote the solid freeform design technique. That was the purpose of the device apparently. | 21:31 |
| fenn | what was my question? | 21:31 |
| kanzure__ | why doesn't he just drop it and go with reprap | 21:36 |
| fenn | the lasercut plexi thing is redundant | 21:39 |
| fenn | reprap would benefit from having new device heads, and they could standardize (gasp) | 21:40 |
| fenn | not to mention it would cost about $2k less | 21:40 |
| kanzure__ | uh oh | 21:49 |
| kanzure__ | "ADL" as in [A]DL (designs of instances of automation) or ADL as in design automation. | 21:49 |
| kanzure__ | Huh, I didn't notice that difference in interpretation originally | 21:50 |
| kanzure__ | but it can be read both ways | 21:50 |
| fenn | derr... what? | 21:53 |
| fenn | automated design means one thing | 21:53 |
| kanzure__ | [automated design] lab = that one thing | 21:53 |
| fenn | why do you add brackets? | 21:54 |
| kanzure__ | [automated] (design lab) = the other one. | 21:54 |
| kanzure__ | A pathetic attempt at emphasis. | 21:54 |
| fenn | its the same thing though | 21:54 |
| kanzure__ | well I guess I am assuming some leeway in the tense, but I'm trying to point out the distinction between just working in a bubble versus designing automations. | 21:54 |
| fenn | second case brings to mind robots typing away at computers for some reason though :) | 21:54 |
| kanzure__ | think of it as a command: "Design automation, lab! do it or else the robots will take over the world." | 21:55 |
| fenn | hrm | 21:55 |
| kanzure__ | see the difference? | 21:55 |
| fenn | i know what you're saying but i dont think the words fit the concept | 21:55 |
| fenn | so how does one go about applying for grad school... | 21:56 |
| kanzure__ | yes they do. "Automated design" can mean both (1) the automation of the design process and (2) the same sense as "Blackened Car Lab" | 21:57 |
| kanzure__ | ugh, Blackened is a bad example .. | 21:57 |
| kanzure__ | Furrowed Eyebrow Lab. | 21:57 |
| fenn | adjective has to apply to both (object of study) and (laboratories) | 21:57 |
| fenn | expensive technology lab | 21:57 |
| kanzure__ | yeah, that's sufficiently amibguous to illustrate the point | 21:58 |
| fenn | huh grad school has tuition? | 22:02 |
| fenn | i thought i was signing up for slave labor | 22:02 |
| kanzure__ | http://www.utexas.edu/business/accounting/pubs/tf_gradsem.pdf | 22:06 |
| kanzure__ | classes. | 22:06 |
| fenn | ah the problem is that "design" is a verb, not a noun | 22:11 |
| fenn | i think its called a gerund | 22:11 |
| kanzure__ | hm? | 22:15 |
| fenn | linguistics | 22:16 |
| kanzure__ | Automated Walking Lab v. what? | 22:16 |
| kanzure__ | I mean, is ADL the 'walking' version? | 22:16 |
| kanzure__ | I've confused myself. | 22:16 |
| fenn | Automated Designing Lab vs Automated Creation Lab | 22:17 |
| fenn | dammit | 22:17 |
| fenn | they can all be used as verbs | 22:17 |
| fenn | Automated Creature Lab | 22:17 |
| fenn | Automated Creating Lab | 22:17 |
| fenn | there. | 22:17 |
| kanzure__ | Automated Designs Lab | 22:18 |
| kanzure__ | ah, creating. | 22:18 |
| fenn | that works too | 22:18 |
| kanzure__ | interesting how that interpretation was resting in the ambiguity of the name. | 22:18 |
| UtopiahGHML | Im watching a documentary called Losers and Winners (2006) on german factory being dissaembled to be re-assembled in China. They directly bring chinese workers in Germany to do so and put numbers on each piece of the factory to build it back in China. I can't even imagine the impact on reprap/fablab in the long run... | 22:19 |
| kanzure__ | There's a company called Matrix Services that does that. | 22:19 |
| kanzure__ | http://heybryan.org/mediawiki/index.php/Engineering_Expo_2008#.2A.2A_Matrix_Service_Company_FTW | 22:20 |
| UtopiahGHML | I didn't know it reached those levels... | 22:21 |
| kanzure__ | :) | 22:21 |
| kanzure__ | levels? | 22:21 |
| fenn | semi-automated disassembly and reassembly lab :) | 22:22 |
| UtopiahGHML | level of globalization, directly shipping the factory from the west to the cheaper country thanks to their worker traveling on place and rebuilt the whole thing there | 22:22 |
| UtopiahGHML | I thought they would ... I dunno, just make new cheaper one there or sth | 22:22 |
| fenn | yay free trade agreements | 22:22 |
| UtopiahGHML | I didn't really think about it before | 22:23 |
| kanzure__ | so there's a difference between just designing in a vacuum and designing for case studies requiring automation. It's hard to emphasize the difference. | 22:24 |
| kanzure__ | I think that's what the different wording emphasizes at least | 22:24 |
| kanzure__ | maybe my translator is broken | 22:24 |
| fenn | the difference is that automated design can create manually operated equipment | 22:25 |
| kanzure__ | or one-off equipment stuff, yeah. | 22:25 |
| fenn | but automated designs excludes them | 22:25 |
| fenn | one is a process, another is a set of information | 22:26 |
| kanzure__ | It would be cool to use this as an excuse to get companies to let me study their automation. yay trade secrets.. | 22:26 |
| UtopiahGHML | (and thinking about it reprap/fablab produced equipement will be even more prone to piloted automation since the design will be entirely software manipulated, duh I need to think about the effect/consequences a bit more) | 22:26 |
| kanzure__ | ;-) | 22:27 |
| fenn | UtopiahGHML: that hasn't been the case so far | 22:28 |
| fenn | reprap is very labor intensive | 22:28 |
| kanzure__ | theoretically 'flexible manufacturing' could do allow for that to some extent, little cars that have giant robot arms on them moving around to make for some new system or something | 22:29 |
| UtopiahGHML | fenn: well when I see how outdated Ive been regarding relocalization (viewing the documentary) Im starting to reconsiderate the whole process | 22:29 |
| UtopiahGHML | Ill ask my friends who work on those topics in eastern Europe, that's actually what they are doing for car manufacturers | 22:30 |
| UtopiahGHML | (new assembly lines, they don't even use top-notch automation there since labor cost is too low against machines) | 22:30 |
| kanzure__ | That's only because the consultants get hundreds of millions for "look! an industrial robot! future tech! woo-woo-woo" | 22:31 |
| kanzure__ | woo-woo-woo is supposed to mean hand waving I guess | 22:31 |
| kanzure__ | fenn: I missed what you said about the distinction, one being about the process and one being about the information (designs (plural)). | 22:33 |
| kanzure__ | actually 'automated designs lab' doesn't have to mean just those designs that are of automated things, but also automated [designs lab]. design management and such. | 22:33 |
| UtopiahGHML | (btw the doc. is on a coke factory, coke derived from coal) | 22:36 |
| kanzure__ | I suppose this goes back to the other basics I've been meaning to fix anyway, the expression of an adequate design | 22:36 |
| kanzure__ | 'adequacy' in design is a good topic in of itself because machinists are always yelling back up here at the so-called designers about how impossible these schematics are | 22:36 |
| kanzure__ | (not really, but I know they're cursing down there) | 22:37 |
| fenn | well they should be | 22:39 |
| fenn | yelling back up i mean | 22:39 |
| kanzure__ | And of course the determinant of adequacy is (corny "ta-da" here) whether or not the design can be translated into reality. ("it from bit") | 22:39 |
| fenn | not really | 22:40 |
| fenn | if you specify .00001" tolerance on a decorative plaque, that's not an adequate design | 22:40 |
| fenn | it's physically possible to make, but the cost to benefit ratio is just off the scale | 22:41 |
| fenn | theoretically anything is possible | 22:42 |
| UtopiahGHML | is that a theory? | 22:42 |
| fenn | designs coming from an academic setting often have high cost to benefit ratio :\ | 22:42 |
| kanzure__ | uh | 22:43 |
| kanzure__ | translated into reality | 22:43 |
| fenn | example: fab@home vs reprap | 22:44 |
| kanzure__ | huh? | 22:44 |
| fenn | same capabilities, different price | 22:44 |
| kanzure__ | No, you misunderstand me. physically possible as in, "here, I've done it using cheap tools" | 22:44 |
| * kanzure__ hands you something autodesignedthingy | 22:44 | |
| fenn | that's a weird interpretation of physically possible | 22:44 |
| fenn | did you know guys in the 1800's scraped granite plates to within a millionth of an inch, with files and abrasive? | 22:45 |
| kanzure__ | hrm. | 22:45 |
| kanzure__ | but seriously, I meant with available tools, and specifically not ridiculously unavailable machines. | 22:45 |
| kanzure__ | so 'physically possible' is, yes, not an adequate definition | 22:46 |
| fenn | services like ponoko are changing the landscape of "available machinery" | 22:47 |
| kanzure__ | I posted to openmanufacturing earlier about a way to do ponoko, with possibly lower margins if automated cargo loading is done | 22:47 |
| fenn | i'm an autonomy freak though, so renting time on a machine in some indeterminate location somewhere on earth doesn't appeal to me | 22:48 |
| kanzure__ | right. | 22:49 |
| kanzure__ | somebody at dorkbot brought their "forearm-mounted electricity generator". wind-up toy. Was supposed to look like a time machine. Didn't work :( | 22:50 |
| kanzure__ | (the time machine aspect, I mean.) | 22:50 |
| fenn | time machine? | 22:50 |
| fenn | i was just talking about human powered electricity generators last night | 22:50 |
| fenn | a string going from the shoe to a wind up "yank cord" generator on your belt, to provide power for mobile computers | 22:51 |
| fenn | parasitic drag from walking n stuff | 22:51 |
| fenn | this guy in robo club made a compact 12V jiggle generator, embedded in a gandalf-ish walking staff, so it lights up when you hold it a certain way | 22:52 |
| fenn | with built-in ultracaps | 22:52 |
| kanzure__ | http://nsf.gov/awardsearch/showAward.do?AwardNumber=0742791 | 22:55 |
| fenn | i was telling him to build the tech into a carpenter's hammer, for ideal nail-striking illumination | 22:56 |
| kanzure__ | fenn: VC: chalstrom.com | 23:02 |
| kanzure__ | Okay, I'm about to leave. | 23:11 |
| kanzure__ | fenn: do you still want me to put in the word? you said something about the whole tuition thing. | 23:11 |
| fenn | he will pay for tuition | 23:13 |
| fenn | that's what the grant money is for | 23:13 |
| fenn | should i send an email tonight? | 23:13 |
| fenn | explaining who i am, why i want to work with adl, etc | 23:13 |
| * fenn anxts over how much to write | 23:15 | |
| kanzure__ | yes, but send it to me first. | 23:15 |
| fenn | ok | 23:15 |
| kanzure__ | yeah, that's why you should send it to me first. | 23:15 |
| * kanzure__ leaves | 23:16 | |
| kanzure__ | oh, I also just replied to Dave/unptnt with a bit of a braindump. oops. | 23:16 |
| kanzure_ | back. | 23:31 |
| fenn | too much pasta, brain starved for oxygen.. | 23:41 |
| kanzure_ | ? | 23:41 |
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