| --- Day changed Mon Nov 17 2008 | ||
| kanzure_ | http://www.miamiherald.com/459/story/773145.html 'The 16-year-old girl was mauled by a cougar and rushed to the hospital after she and 21-year-old Anthony Zitnick illegally entered a wildlife collector's home about 1:30 p.m. Neighbors believe Zitnick was trying to impress the younger girl." | 03:59 |
|---|---|---|
| kanzure_ | That just made my day a little brighter. | 03:59 |
| kanzure_ | "Dried blood covered Rigerman's concrete floor at the spot where the 4-year-old cougar pounced on the girl and clenched his jaws around her head." | 04:00 |
| kanzure_ | "'I heard her scream, `I'm gonna die, I'm gonna die,' '' he said, hours after paramedics had left." | 04:00 |
| kanzure_ | "At first, Miralles said, he tried to push Chaos off, but he wouldn't budge. He then resorted to punching and kicking the cougar, who quickly balled up in a corner, he said." | 04:01 |
| fenn | so, which character in this drama would you most like to be? | 04:08 |
| fenn | the cougar, the owner, the guy, or the girl | 04:08 |
| kanzure | poor sap who had to straighten out the story | 04:08 |
| kanzure | "Wait, the cougar's name is chaos? Well that's just flat out improbable." | 04:09 |
| fenn | ''I'm worried about my absolutely spotless reputation with what I do with these animals,'' | 04:09 |
| kanzure | the only way that the sentence parses is if he means to say that he does terrible things with the animals | 04:10 |
| ybit | http://pewinternet.org/datasets.asp | 04:18 |
| kanzure | Doesn't pew do internet surveys? | 04:19 |
| fenn | can anyone spot what i'm doing wrong? foo = re.match('nan', '\tDefinition: nan\n') | 04:19 |
| fenn | it should match but it doesnt | 04:19 |
| kanzure | python? | 04:20 |
| fenn | ya | 04:20 |
| kanzure | is this find-and-replace? | 04:20 |
| fenn | no, it should return a match object | 04:20 |
| kanzure | what's the second parameter? | 04:20 |
| fenn | the stuff i'm matching the pattern against | 04:20 |
| fenn | bar = re.match('a', 'abc') works | 04:21 |
| bkero | match only does the beginning of a string | 04:21 |
| bkero | Try search | 04:21 |
| bkero | match implies ^ | 04:21 |
| bkero | So you're actually doing foo = re.match('^nan', '\tDefinition: nan\n') | 04:21 |
| fenn | i wonder how i managed to avoid that with every other regex i've written | 04:23 |
| procto | oh shit... `i'm pickling an object and python-' memory usage is at 350mb | 04:25 |
| procto | i'd have though cPickle would not be that heavy... | 04:25 |
| bkero | lol pickles | 04:25 |
| procto | shit, it takes as long to unpickle as to generate the object in the first place... | 04:26 |
| drazak | so | 04:48 |
| drazak | when doing a genetic sequencing, we cleave chromosomes in half, and then (Generally) preform double barrel shotgun sequencing | 04:49 |
| drazak | what if we left them whole, and did a 4 barrel squencing, using more computer power and allowing for checks bassed on percent difference from results in the hg project | 04:49 |
| drazak | you'd be atleast twice as fast, probably even twice as fast -1/3rd | 04:49 |
| gene | So Kanzure do you know about Tipler? | 05:08 |
| fenn | trying to preserve the original units (inch, celsius etc) is quite a pain in the ass | 06:59 |
| kanzure | For some reason I decided to go to sleep at three yesterday. | 07:11 |
| kanzure | gene: Yes, I am aaware of Tipler. | 08:22 |
| kanzure | fenn: Under what circumstances are units being changed? | 08:34 |
| kanzure_ | http://heybryan.org/mediawiki/index.php/Towards_automatic_generation_of_linear_genetic_regulatory_networks_via_biobricks | 09:04 |
| kanzure | So if the codebase is finished before that gets published, I just remove the "Towards" from the title. | 09:06 |
| kanzure_ | http://www.biomedcentral.com/1752-0509/2/91/abstract <-- Hop on the gravy train. | 09:14 |
| kanzure_ | oh wait, 50 pg pdf. Nevermind. | 09:15 |
| kanzure | fenn: if it makes you happy, ADL references lisp on the site. | 09:57 |
| kanzure | I was trying to go through the papers there to steal images but now I'm realizing that I can't even get the majority of the papers cited .. | 09:57 |
| kanzure | and I supposedly "have access" | 09:57 |
| kanzure_ | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKCZ9jRCYT0 3-O-Matic - success | 10:53 |
| UtopiahGHML | anybody know studies on the most human active gene pools? what genes are currently changing the fastest and what are the hypothesised environmental pressure that pushes this phenomenum? | 14:07 |
| UtopiahGHML | maybe sth from Bruce Lahn (Chicago Uni) | 14:07 |
| UtopiahGHML | Id appreciate if someone could share The Mechanical Mind in History, Cambridge, MA: MIT Press. 978-0-262-08377-5 | 16:05 |
| kanzure_- | Hello. | 17:00 |
| gene | you there kanzure | 17:25 |
| kanzure_- | yes | 17:35 |
| kanzure_- | fenn: http://heybryan.org/books/Manufacturing/campbell/ just fyi. | 17:36 |
| kanzure_- | oh, I guess I should have linked to the .zip in the parent dir. | 17:57 |
| kanzure_- | since the filenames are hardly informative. | 17:57 |
| fenn | and they're all empty | 18:43 |
| fenn | i love how todo.txt is from 1999 | 18:47 |
| fenn | hmm probably a date error | 18:47 |
| fenn | campbell said no. | 19:18 |
| fenn | i think | 19:20 |
| gene | kanzure | 19:43 |
| kanzure_- | yes? | 20:01 |
| kanzure_- | fenn: yeah, looks like he really wants a grad student | 20:01 |
| kanzure_- | but he replied. which is impressive? | 20:02 |
| fenn | heh | 20:02 |
| fenn | there is that, at least | 20:02 |
| * fenn rings up cat-lady to see if she still needs a housekeeper | 20:03 | |
| fenn | so i think i should steam ahead with SMIRF | 20:03 |
| fenn | since it's the only way to get anything done these days | 20:03 |
| kanzure_- | what, "the only way to get things done is to throw it into an MMORPG" ? | 20:03 |
| fenn | flashy graphics and social software, that is to say | 20:03 |
| kanzure_- | sounds boring. | 20:05 |
| fenn | billions of people can't be wrong! | 20:05 |
| kanzure_- | huh, so there is an alternative | 20:07 |
| kanzure_- | well, no there isn't. nevermind. | 20:09 |
| kanzure_- | http://www.utexas.edu/ce/college/ doesn't really help with the income factor. | 20:09 |
| kanzure_- | (nor the undergraduate standing) | 20:12 |
| fenn | ideally i'd be able to migrate south for the winter | 20:12 |
| fenn | them geese are smart | 20:12 |
| gene | ok Kanzure did you finish the thing? | 20:15 |
| kanzure_- | gene: The thingy? | 20:15 |
| kanzure_- | What? | 20:15 |
| gene | yeah | 20:16 |
| kanzure_- | What thing? | 20:16 |
| gene | materials and manufacturing report? | 20:16 |
| kanzure_- | that's due next week | 20:16 |
| gene | oh | 20:16 |
| kanzure_- | it was assigned last week. | 20:16 |
| gene | ok | 20:16 |
| gene | hmm.... why not apply an mmorpg to SKDB? | 20:17 |
| gene | put stuff into database | 20:17 |
| gene | get points | 20:17 |
| gene | and win things | 20:17 |
| gene | like hats | 20:17 |
| kanzure_- | because people suck at data entry. | 20:17 |
| kanzure_- | that's why the current repository sucks. | 20:17 |
| gene | indeed | 20:17 |
| kanzure_- | (also because the data entry app sucks too, but that's just because people sucked at understanding what they were doing) | 20:18 |
| gene | ok | 20:18 |
| fenn | gene: that's the idea | 20:19 |
| fenn | behind smirf | 20:19 |
| kanzure_- | yesterday you said to get rid of human data entry | 20:19 |
| fenn | i did? | 20:19 |
| gene | indeed | 20:19 |
| kanzure_- | after commenting on the Mike mockup | 20:19 |
| kanzure_- | arid_shadow comcast link thing that Paul links to | 20:19 |
| * fenn has amnesia | 20:19 | |
| fenn | what Mike mockup? | 20:20 |
| kanzure_- | the one that showed an entry app to their "OSCOMAK" but it was really just this thing with a giant human language entry form | 20:21 |
| kanzure_- | and a small link on the side saying "Upload CAD file button" | 20:21 |
| fenn | not that kind of data entry | 20:21 |
| fenn | more like Alice/croquet | 20:21 |
| kanzure_- | and then on the left there was stuff like "category blah blahb lha" | 20:21 |
| fenn | http://home.comcast.net/~arid_shadow/interface.png | 20:21 |
| kanzure_- | yes | 20:21 |
| fenn | perhaps my production budget is too low for my ambition, but certainly a more graphical "tactile" interface is desirable | 20:22 |
| fenn | and semantic wikipedia already exists so why reinvent it | 20:23 |
| gene | tactile would be awesom | 20:23 |
| gene | shape parts with our hands | 20:23 |
| fenn | well, nobody has haptic input devices so will have to get by with mouse and keyboard :( | 20:23 |
| kanzure_- | shape isn't a really important factor in all of this | 20:23 |
| kanzure_- | it's one of them, but not really. | 20:23 |
| gene | yeah | 20:24 |
| fenn | there is a lot of "this" | 20:24 |
| gene | unfortunately | 20:24 |
| kanzure_- | what's unfortunately? | 20:24 |
| fenn | gene wants play-doh land | 20:24 |
| gene | tactile interfaces aren't sufficiently cheap yet | 20:24 |
| gene | not play-doh | 20:24 |
| gene | land | 20:24 |
| fenn | i cant say i blame him really, it works for spore | 20:24 |
| fenn | and would work for the "magic" stuff in smirf | 20:25 |
| gene | more like dimension parts with your hands | 20:25 |
| kanzure_- | but we have 3D shape generators already. | 20:25 |
| gene | put lines and stuff down with your fingers | 20:25 |
| gene | just an idea | 20:25 |
| kanzure_- | just a month of running would generate the possibility space of constructable components that users would ever be able to make within their lifetimes | 20:25 |
| fenn | bah | 20:25 |
| fenn | show me | 20:26 |
| kanzure_- | well, give the user a finite set of operations and be amazed | 20:26 |
| kanzure_- | for continuus variables and parameters, like "offset by 2132.5414.141" sure, that's not going to happen via the generators unless that number has some damned good definable reason | 20:26 |
| fenn | ah arid_shadow = mike harris | 20:27 |
| kanzure_- | yes | 20:27 |
| fenn | is "energy minima" a damned good reason? | 20:28 |
| fenn | state space | 20:28 |
| kanzure_- | "energy minima" in terms of what, something like tension? | 20:28 |
| fenn | optimized for some function | 20:28 |
| kanzure_- | no. because you're being too vague here. | 20:29 |
| fenn | like mass or thermal dissipation | 20:29 |
| fenn | or rigidity | 20:29 |
| kanzure_- | k, that looks like end-result parametric tweaking more than anything | 20:29 |
| kanzure_- | since this doesn't do FEA-down-the-tree (whatever that means / looks like) | 20:29 |
| fenn | well, it should | 20:29 |
| kanzure_- | what I mean by that is that it does generate->load into FEA->run FEA on that item | 20:29 |
| kanzure_- | what would "FEA-down-the-tree" look like? | 20:29 |
| kanzure_- | FEA-down-the-tree means that the operations that are allowable are in terms of the FEA-results as well as manipulation of the topology/operations-that-you-can-make-on-the-design | 20:30 |
| fenn | you mean "back propagation"? http://fennetic.net/cadwiki/index.php?back-propagation | 20:30 |
| kanzure_- | if that makes any sense. probably doesn't because I don't know of anybody who has this method. | 20:30 |
| kanzure_- | not quite. | 20:30 |
| fenn | oh so you're treating FEA as a design constraint (but soft) | 20:31 |
| fenn | o yonder whatsit | 20:31 |
| fenn | What light through yonder window breaks? | 20:31 |
| kanzure_- | hm, the way that you word backpropagation I'd be tempted to say yes | 20:31 |
| fenn | btw i think iteration is way more practical than PDE's | 20:32 |
| fenn | in terms of actually getting something finished | 20:32 |
| kanzure_- | fenn: iteration instead of PDEs? | 20:32 |
| fenn | yeah | 20:32 |
| kanzure_- | does not compute for the way I was going to use PDEs (FEA methods etc.) | 20:32 |
| kanzure_- | or not "going to" but "would use if I were to" | 20:33 |
| kanzure_- | iterate the graph and then given a final 3D cad model, run FEA | 20:33 |
| kanzure_- | erm, not iterate the graph | 20:33 |
| kanzure_- | traverse the tree of all possible graphs up to some point defined by various metrics yay handwaving | 20:33 |
| fenn | why would you do analysis as the last step? | 20:33 |
| kanzure_- | and then take that representative design and run FEA | 20:33 |
| kanzure_- | not quite the last, but at some well-defined points in the tree | 20:33 |
| kanzure_- | like at points that you might be interested in showing the user | 20:34 |
| fenn | decision points | 20:34 |
| kanzure_- | but this isn't because of any sort of "informed search" where the information making up the "informed" aspect is due to FEA information .. I'd like it to be due to FEA precognition information, yes of course | 20:34 |
| kanzure_- | hm | 20:34 |
| kanzure_- | FEA foresight? | 20:34 |
| kanzure_- | FEA precognition information? | 20:34 |
| kanzure_- | projected results? | 20:34 |
| kanzure_- | whatever. | 20:34 |
| kanzure_- | some confluence of the operations in the manipulation of the traversal tree, making it so that you get reasonably useful predictions of what the FEA results are going to be from one manipulation of the design-graph to another. | 20:35 |
| fenn | fea is very low cost with coarse meshes | 20:35 |
| kanzure_- | but pretty inaccurate, no? | 20:35 |
| fenn | but good enough for a first order survey | 20:35 |
| kanzure_- | are you sure? | 20:35 |
| fenn | no | 20:35 |
| kanzure_- | heh | 20:35 |
| kanzure_- | I can approximate a human with 20 surfaces maybe (think pre-N64), but in reality some of those surfaces are complex, high-impact craters that impact FEA results dramatically (I'm making this up) | 20:36 |
| fenn | that was the strategy i was planning on using for magical-cad-app | 20:36 |
| fenn | generally if the topology doesn't work at low res it wont work at high res either | 20:37 |
| fenn | (sometimes it will work at low res but not at high res) | 20:37 |
| kanzure_- | ok, so for a quick check, sure. | 20:37 |
| kanzure_- | I do all kinds of quick checks as it is, so a few more isn't terrible. | 20:37 |
| kanzure_- | Do you know of a python library for exporting 3D data into some format that blender or 3D modeling packages will like? | 20:38 |
| fenn | export from what? | 20:39 |
| kanzure_- | I've been looking around for this but haven't found much for python nor perl. which is awkward. | 20:39 |
| fenn | there was some opengl screen capture to STL hack somewhere | 20:39 |
| kanzure_- | export from a collection of points, vertices, lines, or some other similar primitive objects. | 20:39 |
| kanzure_- | screen capture? | 20:39 |
| kanzure_- | or buffer capture? | 20:39 |
| fenn | buffer capture | 20:39 |
| kanzure_- | neat | 20:39 |
| fenn | stl cant do primitives though, only mesh | 20:40 |
| kanzure_- | that's fine, I can convert to quads | 20:40 |
| kanzure_- | (I think) | 20:40 |
| fenn | i dont think there's much 3d geometry stuff for python | 20:41 |
| fenn | (would love to be proven wrong of course) | 20:41 |
| kanzure_- | same with perl. :/ | 20:41 |
| kanzure_- | I wonder why I'm talking about perl/python | 20:41 |
| kanzure_- | the glxgears.c stuff I'm doing is still in c | 20:41 |
| kanzure_- | so uh, I'm sure gamedev.net and nehe will have something. | 20:42 |
| * fenn grunts | 20:42 | |
| kanzure_- | ? | 20:42 |
| fenn | "good luck" | 20:43 |
| fenn | everyone loves to write importers, nobody writes exporters | 20:43 |
| fenn | praps you could simply use the blender python api | 20:45 |
| kanzure_- | I could generate a python script perhaps | 20:45 |
| fenn | oh right it's still C | 20:45 |
| kanzure_- | nah, generating a script isn't bad | 20:45 |
| fenn | why didnt you use the glxgears.py i linked to :) | 20:45 |
| kanzure_- | does glxgears.py run in blender? | 20:46 |
| fenn | no | 20:47 |
| fenn | there is a blender gears script tho (makes anatomically accurate gears too) | 20:47 |
| kanzure_- | it's not terrible for me to write "print <command>" instead of just calling <command> .. just means that I'll have to generate a .py script, then run blender in batch mode or whatever | 20:47 |
| kanzure_- | hm, I'll have to look int othat | 20:47 |
| kanzure_- | *into that | 20:47 |
| kanzure_- | plus the buffer->STL stuff. | 20:47 |
| fenn | kewl: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcZsMhU7H3o | 20:48 |
| fenn | i dont think you're going to find anything better than this: http://www.swineworld.org/blender/gears/ | 20:51 |
| fenn | of course no fscking license info | 20:52 |
| kanzure_- | Hello ferrouswheel. | 20:53 |
| fenn | oh, i guess "(cc) by 3.0 nl" means something | 20:53 |
| ferrouswheel | hi kanzure_ | 20:54 |
| * fenn runs it through his license multiplier matrix </dream> | 20:54 | |
| ferrouswheel | hey UtopiahGHML - fancy seeing you here :) | 20:54 |
| kanzure_- | I'm confused. Do we know ferrouswheel? | 20:55 |
| ferrouswheel | No, I've never been in this room, but I work on OpenCog w Ben Goertzel. | 20:55 |
| fenn | sounds familiar | 20:55 |
| fenn | ah that's probably it | 20:55 |
| ferrouswheel | Joel Pitt IRL | 20:56 |
| ferrouswheel | Randomly saw this room in an email by Bryan Bishop, while randomly searching for other things in gmail. | 20:57 |
| ferrouswheel | So thought I'd drop by :) | 20:57 |
| UtopiahGHML | hi ferrouswheel | 20:58 |
| UtopiahGHML | since you are here and alive ;) have you read The Mechanical Mind in History, Cambridge, MA: MIT Press ? seems pretty interesting but didn't check reviews yet | 20:59 |
| ferrouswheel | UtopiahGHML, no I haven't... recent publication? | 21:00 |
| UtopiahGHML | April 2008 | 21:00 |
| ferrouswheel | Ahh... well. If you do read it, let me know if it's worth buying/reading | 21:01 |
| * ferrouswheel already has a backlog of reading to get through | 21:01 | |
| ferrouswheel | ...as I suspect many of us do! | 21:01 |
| UtopiahGHML | TOC http://mitpress.mit.edu/catalog/item/default.asp?ttype=2&tid=11479&mode=toc | 21:01 |
| fenn | i'm procrastinating my backlog with my other backlog | 21:01 |
| * UtopiahGHML started a meta-todo list recently | 21:02 | |
| fenn | my todo list is more meta than yours :P | 21:02 |
| UtopiahGHML | I meta-doubt it! | 21:02 |
| ferrouswheel | I have "finish my todo list" on my meta todo-list... etc | 21:03 |
| fenn | i meta-dog dare you to finish it | 21:04 |
| UtopiahGHML | ferrouswheel: how is the transhumanism/posthumanism/... movement perceived in NewZealand? | 21:05 |
| -!- ferrouswheel is now known as metaferrouswheel | 21:05 | |
| UtopiahGHML | any cursus? groups? labs? sth? | 21:05 |
| metaferrouswheel | ferrouswheel doesn't know of any such movement :( | 21:05 |
| metaferrouswheel | he plans to try and start a gathering of folks at his house though... | 21:06 |
| UtopiahGHML | maybe some MeetUp group | 21:06 |
| fenn | NZ is disproportionately represented for its population size | 21:06 |
| -!- metaferrouswheel is now known as ferrouswheel | 21:06 | |
| fenn | as is Boston, San Diego, and Austin | 21:06 |
| ferrouswheel | I miss being in SF - I may have to go on another extended trip. | 21:07 |
| UtopiahGHML | :) | 21:07 |
| UtopiahGHML | the BayArea is pretty cool | 21:07 |
| fenn | bunch of hipsters with too much money, wah | 21:07 |
| UtopiahGHML | and very open on those questions | 21:07 |
| fenn | i guess that's the going definition of "cool" though | 21:08 |
| ferrouswheel | fenn, yes, but having people with too much money leads to them sponsoring crazy projects ;) | 21:08 |
| ferrouswheel | UtopiahGHML, I had a great time hanging out with folks who'd I'd previously only known online. | 21:09 |
| ferrouswheel | Damned expensive to live there though... especially compared to NZ, haha | 21:09 |
| UtopiahGHML | really? | 21:10 |
| UtopiahGHML | well you also have to consider the average local salary in MountainView/PaloAlto | 21:11 |
| ferrouswheel | That's true... however I'm working on not all that amazing rates at the moment (pretty good for NZ, just not so much for SF), so it felt expensive | 21:13 |
| ferrouswheel | plus the NZD is low against the USD at the moment... which I don't quite understand since I though it was the US economy that was in trouble ;P | 21:14 |
| UtopiahGHML | yes I didn't get it either | 21:14 |
| UtopiahGHML | I changed USD this summer | 21:14 |
| UtopiahGHML | and expected to have an even higher gap with euro | 21:14 |
| UtopiahGHML | but it went up | 21:14 |
| UtopiahGHML | (which is good for me since I still have those USD) | 21:15 |
| UtopiahGHML | guess Im not smart enough to play on the currency market yet | 21:16 |
| UtopiahGHML | and also talking about NZ have you tried ThinkBase? from Auckland uni, CS lab http://thinkbase.cs.auckland.ac.nz/ | 21:17 |
| ferrouswheel | i haven't... what is it? (complains java isn't installed, but it is... :/ ) | 21:19 |
| UtopiahGHML | visual wiki navigation using Freebase (using itself Wikipedia) as a network to explore | 21:19 |
| ferrouswheel | (it should really at least give people the option of finding out about it, even without Java) | 21:19 |
| UtopiahGHML | their blog (not requiring java) is at http://thinkbase-blog.blogspot.com/ | 21:21 |
| UtopiahGHML | another NZ project I like is http://www.eurekster.com/ | 21:21 |
| kanzure_- | fenn: Around? | 23:01 |
| kanzure_- | fenn: it turns out that he was concerned because your undergrad degree was microbiology. | 23:02 |
| kanzure_- | he should be writing another email to you in a day or two, and if not, I'd say you have grounds to phone him | 23:02 |
| kanzure_- | so I told him you were computer-sciencey, perhaps more than I am (if that's possible) slash mechanical, so you just need to strut or something | 23:04 |
| * kanzure_- goes to eat | 23:04 | |
| kanzure | yawn, freebase. | 23:21 |
| kanzure | ferrouswheel: So, hi. I'm Bryan. | 23:21 |
| bkero | Google dinnertime in 9 minutes | 23:21 |
| bkero | ferrouswheel: Good evening. | 23:21 |
| kanzure | Why? | 23:21 |
| bkero | kanzure: That wasn't a command. I was saying dinner at the Google complex occurs at 6:30PM EST. | 23:21 |
| kanzure | Some good that does me. | 23:23 |
| kanzure | google: me a dinner. | 23:23 |
| kanzure | erm, I mean, why can't I google up dinner. | 23:23 |
| kanzure | Scuse me. I need to go wander around. | 23:23 |
| bkero | Go troll your dorm | 23:24 |
| fenn | try sudo google me a dinner | 23:29 |
| bkero | fenn: come to new york and I'll bring you to google dinner | 23:30 |
| fenn | ok be right there.. | 23:30 |
| * bkero goes to google dinner | 23:30 | |
| fenn | hmm beans or lettuce tonight.. | 23:30 |
| fenn | oo maybe i'll have _both_ | 23:31 |
| kanzure | So what's up with bkero and all the rad jobs? | 23:44 |
| kanzure | Intel, Google, is he a player? | 23:44 |
| bkero | Sort of | 23:56 |
| bkero | I'm just super awesome | 23:56 |
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