| --- Day changed Wed Nov 19 2008 | ||
| kanzure | huh | 00:07 |
|---|---|---|
| kanzure | well there's a good reason for your statement not making any sense | 00:08 |
| kanzure | I thought you were speaking in tongues | 00:08 |
| kanzure | but could you answer me, how exactly do you intend to change that? | 00:08 |
| kanzure_ | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cBt4vQMeTvc | 00:13 |
| kanzure_ | "Advanced sugar rocket fuel strand test *2.71seconds per inch" | 00:13 |
| kanzure_ | http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/11/18/1725231 "Crowdsourcing site offers rewards to bust patents" (via finding prior art) | 00:16 |
| kanzure_ | hm. | 00:16 |
| kanzure_ | incentives to find prior art. bleh. I was hoping it was something more. | 00:17 |
| procto | kanzure_: you say that a lot, and I'm rever sure why, since the description is usually pretty simple :>> | 00:38 |
| procto | never* | 00:38 |
| kanzure | I say what alot? | 00:38 |
| kanzure | *a lot | 00:39 |
| * fenn guesses "speaking in tongues" | 00:40 | |
| fenn | no, no need to give me a cookie, i've already had plenty | 00:41 |
| kanzure | procto: ? | 00:41 |
| kanzure | may I attribute this to an aspieism? | 00:42 |
| kanzure | assuming that people are talking about what I'm talking about? | 00:42 |
| fenn | i think it's IRC-ism | 00:42 |
| kanzure | well, it all became very reasonable when I went back and found that you were talking about something entirely else. | 00:43 |
| kanzure | "but that's impossible! how could it be about something _else_!" | 00:43 |
| fenn | which line in particular were you talking about? | 00:43 |
| kanzure | `the one immediately after you flagged me | 00:44 |
| kanzure | "it's to make up for the inadequacies ..." | 00:44 |
| fenn | uh, could you give me a timestamp or something? | 00:44 |
| fenn | ok | 00:44 |
| kanzure | so are you going to answer me or not. | 00:49 |
| kanzure | heh' | 00:49 |
| fenn | "i think it's IRC-ism" was my answer | 00:50 |
| fenn | unless you are talking to procto.. hm | 00:51 |
| kanzure | no | 00:51 |
| kanzure | you said "I intend to fix this" | 00:51 |
| kanzure | and I asked "how" | 00:51 |
| kanzure | and got confused way up there | 00:51 |
| fenn | ah ok | 00:51 |
| fenn | through making tools that encourage end-user-driven production | 00:51 |
| fenn | design for disassembly, design reuse, etc | 00:51 |
| kanzure | huh? what good would that do? "show them how hard it really is"? | 00:52 |
| kanzure | "i dont know where people get the idea that making stuff is cheap and easy even if you dont know what you're doing" | 00:52 |
| fenn | how hard it is to build a small milling machine? | 00:52 |
| fenn | no, the idea is to make it easier by giving them the tools and step-by-step tutorials | 00:52 |
| fenn | right now stuff is so hard to design and build that it takes a team of engineers to get the per-unit cost down enough to make mass production feasible | 00:54 |
| fenn | so we end up with only mass production tailored designs | 00:54 |
| fenn | but an extra 500% in materials cost wouldnt break the bank for most people | 00:54 |
| fenn | (compared to mass produced design) | 00:55 |
| fenn | hmm that sentence didnt quite come out right | 00:55 |
| drazak | I dunno | 00:55 |
| drazak | I think I could make something, given good instructions/pictures, without knowing anything about it beforehand | 00:56 |
| kanzure | underlying all of that, we're not really working off of many case studies here | 00:56 |
| kanzure | show me the full design notes for one of these "designed for mass production" systems | 00:56 |
| fenn | designing stuff takes lots of time and effort, so you have to have a team of engineers to get that much effort, so you have to recoup your investment in engineering by making thousands of copies, so you might as well custom tailor each design because it's going to be in a million copies.. | 00:56 |
| kanzure | full set of designs, schematics, calculations, all of that jazz | 00:56 |
| fenn | well i was thinking CD-ROM drives | 00:57 |
| fenn | drazak: do you have any examples of things you've built? or are you simply proving my statement? | 00:57 |
| fenn | of course "given good instructions/pictures" never happens in reality | 00:58 |
| drazak | fenn: I'm just saying that building stuff is easy, given someone else telling you how to build it who knows his shit | 00:58 |
| drazak | I've built some headphone amps and crap | 00:59 |
| fenn | i dont know.. especially with mechanical stuff, it's so easy to leave out details that you dont even know you know | 00:59 |
| fenn | circuit boards are computationally simple to assemble | 01:00 |
| fenn | that's why we use them | 01:00 |
| drazak | well no | 01:01 |
| drazak | the point is, a mechanical thing can bejust as simple | 01:01 |
| drazak | also | 01:01 |
| drazak | bbl house/fringe | 01:01 |
| fenn | "so easy a robot could do it" | 01:01 |
| * kanzure scoffs | 01:02 | |
| kanzure | scoff feels like an ancient c function. | 01:02 |
| fenn | scoffs("%02d", intensity) | 01:03 |
| procto | kanzure: you say "i expected more" | 01:03 |
| kanzure | procto: Oh, that? | 01:03 |
| kanzure | I was hoping that something like that getting to Slashdot would be more than just about typical IP bullshit | 01:03 |
| kanzure | but instead maybe something about open hardware directories | 01:03 |
| procto | that's one of my main goals with seasteading | 01:04 |
| kanzure | have you mentioned this before? | 01:04 |
| kanzure | or is it something on logarchy that I've neglected to remember? | 01:04 |
| fenn | so you're building another guptastan outpost? | 01:04 |
| procto | i.e. you can infringe on patents or whatever you want | 01:05 |
| procto | when you're out of the EEZ | 01:05 |
| procto | even before manufacturing can be done on a personal basis with home fabbers | 01:05 |
| procto | we can float small semi-automated shops | 01:05 |
| kanzure | international zoning law thingies? | 01:06 |
| kanzure | erm, seasteading as in, Project Atlantis? | 01:06 |
| fenn | uh, but you can only use them in international waters, correct? | 01:06 |
| procto | no, seasteading as in the seasteading institute | 01:06 |
| kanzure | uh, what about the float bounce factor? | 01:06 |
| procto | http://seasteading.org | 01:07 |
| procto | there's a whole book up on that site | 01:07 |
| kanzure | but I don't think we really care about infringing on land for free | 01:07 |
| fenn | like if you have some patented dentures, you could only wear them while out at sea | 01:07 |
| procto | peruse at your leisure | 01:07 |
| kanzure | who cares? read a few patents, make some stuff | 01:07 |
| procto | fenn: well, being as I plan on being at sea, that is not a problem | 01:07 |
| kanzure | not all of the design information is in patents | 01:07 |
| kanzure | and if it was, things would be much easier | 01:07 |
| procto | certainly not | 01:07 |
| procto | but it's a start | 01:07 |
| fenn | procto: the nice thing about being within the limits of the law is that you dont have to worry so much about being bullied by large organizations with guns, but this can happen quite easily on the open ocean | 01:08 |
| procto | can it? | 01:08 |
| fenn | yep | 01:08 |
| kanzure | not really, where are you getting materials? | 01:08 |
| procto | on what basis is that assumption that they would bother? | 01:08 |
| fenn | history | 01:09 |
| fenn | admittedly, i'm not a historian | 01:09 |
| procto | in fact, it's usually the opposite | 01:09 |
| fenn | but i seem to recall some seastead being attacked for no particular reason | 01:09 |
| procto | in the most famous cases, large organization sponsored privateers | 01:09 |
| procto | such as with Francis Drake | 01:09 |
| fenn | you mean, hired thugs to loot and pillage? | 01:09 |
| fenn | somehow this doesnt make me feel safe | 01:09 |
| kanzure | japanese corporate warships | 01:09 |
| procto | however, in general, piracy occurs when there is a particular ratio of wealth to difficulty | 01:10 |
| procto | as long as you keep your stuff on the sea | 01:10 |
| procto | and don't then sell it in countries | 01:10 |
| procto | you aren't really hurting those orgs that would bother with guns | 01:10 |
| procto | governments are the scariest ones | 01:10 |
| procto | because they migt be pissed off at you just on principle | 01:10 |
| fenn | you're confusing "pirate" as in violent thief, with "pirate" the non-violent civil disobedient of the late 20th century | 01:10 |
| procto | and they really have the big guns | 01:10 |
| procto | no... I am using the term "pirate" here in the contexts of armed robbers on the sea | 01:11 |
| procto | as is quite clear from context | 01:11 |
| gene_ | make guns? | 01:11 |
| kanzure | fenn: if you have the materials to make a floating city thing, or a floating home of some sort, such as on a boat, | 01:11 |
| kanzure | then I don't see why you can't build weapons | 01:11 |
| procto | make guns? and be raped of the US coast guard? | 01:11 |
| procto | by* | 01:11 |
| gene_ | machine guns | 01:12 |
| gene_ | oh | 01:12 |
| gene_ | sea steading | 01:12 |
| fenn | procto: so, if i operate a pharmaceutical factory 200 miles outside of san fransisco, you think nobody would give a shit? | 01:12 |
| gene_ | the DEA might | 01:12 |
| gene_ | the FDA might | 01:12 |
| gene_ | but then again | 01:12 |
| procto | fenn: of course they would. but if you operate a pharmaceutical factory that only caters to other seasteads | 01:12 |
| fenn | kanzure: you can build weapons, but _they_ have fucking bombers and cruise missiles and nuclear submarines | 01:12 |
| kanzure | no, I mean build weapons for protecting yourself | 01:12 |
| procto | rather further out | 01:13 |
| gene_ | electrochemical machining is particulary suited to making parts from hard material | 01:13 |
| kanzure | hm | 01:13 |
| kanzure | I am experiencing significant lag | 01:13 |
| procto | kanzure: I understand. but no gov't would look kindly upon that. after all, protecting people with deadly force is their monopoly | 01:13 |
| gene_ | even titanium | 01:13 |
| fenn | procto: "other seastead" i.e. "nobody" | 01:13 |
| kanzure | procto: you said something about pirates stealing your shit | 01:13 |
| kanzure | or fenn said it | 01:13 |
| gene_ | hmm... | 01:13 |
| kanzure | so I said build guns | 01:13 |
| fenn | procto: then again i suppose you could grow pot in your basement, as long as you didnt sell it to anyone | 01:13 |
| procto | I think you just assumed I mean to start building huge factories | 01:14 |
| procto | and then see where it goes | 01:14 |
| gene_ | if nuke a tiny sea stead | 01:14 |
| procto | that doesn't make sense at all | 01:14 |
| kanzure | procto: you still haven't told me where you are getting your materials from. | 01:14 |
| gene_ | they get a lot of flak | 01:14 |
| kanzure | fenn: who is _they_ ? | 01:14 |
| gene_ | the ocean? | 01:14 |
| fenn | kanzure: US Navy | 01:14 |
| procto | kanzure: shipped from land, of course. where else? | 01:14 |
| gene_ | what materials do you need? | 01:14 |
| kanzure | procto: still waiting to figure out where you're getting your metals from. | 01:14 |
| gene_ | the sea | 01:15 |
| procto | you folks are assuming I'm going about this the wrong way before even thinking about how one really wound go about it | 01:15 |
| gene_ | kanzure | 01:15 |
| procto | kanzure: I just said, shipped from mines, just like everyone else | 01:15 |
| gene_ | kanzure | 01:15 |
| kanzure | fenn: oh please. | 01:15 |
| gene_ | magnesium is made from sea water | 01:15 |
| fenn | procto: how do you get a ship to come out to your tiny seastead for every little thing you need? | 01:15 |
| kanzure | procto: bull fucking shit, "shipped from land" - where? | 01:15 |
| kanzure | procto: be more specific | 01:15 |
| gene_ | magnesium is made from sea water | 01:15 |
| kanzure | procto: material suppliers rarely communicate with small time operations | 01:15 |
| procto | kanzure: ok, where do you get your raw materials now? | 01:15 |
| gene_ | magnesium is made from sea water | 01:15 |
| kanzure | fenn: nah, that's not the problem, small ships coming out to you .. bah. just have your own. | 01:15 |
| kanzure | procto: I don't, because I'm a pussy | 01:16 |
| kanzure | procto: but I should, and I get anxious about it | 01:16 |
| kanzure | procto: that's why I have my mindat datasets | 01:16 |
| procto | when I said "my plans", I didn't mean "first thing I do when I get on the sea" | 01:16 |
| gene_ | magnesium is made from FUCKING sea water | 01:16 |
| kanzure | and why I try to infiltrate legitimate operations like onlinemetals to try to get them to do B2B properly | 01:16 |
| gene_ | Although magnesium is found in over 60 minerals, only dolomite, magnesite, brucite, carnallite, talc, and olivine are of commercial importance. | 01:16 |
| gene_ | In the United States this metal is principally obtained by electrolysis of fused magnesium chloride from brines, wells, and sea water: | 01:16 |
| gene_ | cathode: Mg2+ + 2 e- -> Mg | 01:16 |
| gene_ | anode: 2 Cl- -> Cl2 (gas) + 2 e- | 01:16 |
| gene_ | Vapor-deposited magnesium crystals from the Pidgeon process | 01:16 |
| gene_ | The United States has traditionally been the major world supplier of this metal, supplying 45% of world production even as recently as 1995. Today, the US market share is at 7%, with a single domestic producer left, US Magnesium, a company born from now-defunct Magcorp.[4] As of 2005 China has taken over as the dominant supplier, pegged at 60% world market share, which increased from 4% in... | 01:16 |
| gene_ | ...1995. Unlike the above described electrolytic process, China is almost completely reliant on a different method of obtaining the metal from its ores, the silicothermic Pidgeon process (the reduction of the oxide at high temperatures with silicon). | 01:17 |
| gene_ | ban time | 01:17 |
| * fenn yawns | 01:17 | |
| procto | if one intends to be a seasteader, small scale living is the initial goal | 01:17 |
| procto | manufacturing of any scale can only exist when there is a local market to support it | 01:17 |
| procto | JUST LIKE ON LAND | 01:17 |
| fenn | gene_: go read "the millenial project" | 01:17 |
| kanzure | why deoesn't gene get kicked for pasting ever | 01:17 |
| fenn | unfortunately "seament" doesnt actually work | 01:17 |
| fenn | kanzure: because you havent registered the channel, so there's no chanserv bot | 01:17 |
| kanzure | procto: bull. | 01:18 |
| procto | seacrete doesn't, you're right | 01:18 |
| procto | but what about ferroconcrete | 01:18 |
| procto | kanzure: what's bull? | 01:18 |
| kanzure | just saying "small scale living! yay for being disconnected from your material sources!" | 01:18 |
| procto | kanzure: no... | 01:18 |
| gene_ | you know there is a whole bunch of shit dissolved in seawater | 01:18 |
| kanzure | procto: I don't care about your stupid markets | 01:18 |
| gene_ | there are also manganese nodules at the bottom of the ocean | 01:18 |
| kanzure | procto: just saying "I'll live in laland, small supplies! yay for not having anything to work with .." .. | 01:19 |
| fenn | there are also sunken tankers at the bottom of the ocean | 01:19 |
| gene_ | you have a point there | 01:19 |
| gene_ | fenn | 01:19 |
| gene_ | there are also sunken cargo ships full of metals | 01:19 |
| fenn | kanzure: this is why i gave up on seasteading, because it's actually more difficult than living on the moon | 01:19 |
| procto | kanzure: instead of addressing every single tiny problem that your bring up live on IRC, and contending with that you assume I am about 20x stupider that I am, I am going to pull a Bryan Bishop and link you to a very large text that should address much of what you bring up | 01:19 |
| gene_ | why is it harder than living on the moon? | 01:20 |
| procto | kanzure: http://seasteading.org/seastead.org/book_beta/full_book_beta.html | 01:20 |
| procto | kanzure: warning, large file | 01:20 |
| kanzure | procto: But I'm *not* addressing every single point of yours | 01:20 |
| kanzure | procto: I'm talking about a very singular issue | 01:20 |
| gene_ | you don't have to make your own oxygen on earth | 01:20 |
| kanzure | procto: but I'll look :) | 01:20 |
| gene_ | btw, what's steel made from? | 01:20 |
| procto | kanzure: ok, then I'll address it in this way | 01:20 |
| kanzure | procto: it's fenn that is bringing up the many little issues, btw. | 01:20 |
| kanzure | which are interesting points, but | 01:21 |
| kanzure | I previously solved those little points with the cult I was in when I was 12 etc. | 01:21 |
| gene_ | actually considering it you might be right fenn | 01:21 |
| procto | kanzure: there is already a large community ef people who live on the sea, called live-aboards | 01:21 |
| fenn | getting blown to smithereens isnt exactly a little issue | 01:21 |
| procto | kanzure: there is another large community, it's called the cruiseship industry | 01:21 |
| kanzure | procto: the cruiseship industry has large B2B business contacts thingies and large consulting fees for bullshit material sourcing stuffs | 01:21 |
| gene_ | now if we could only buy a cheap cruise ship | 01:21 |
| procto | kanzure: just to demonstrate that resource starvation isn't really a problem, when your very location is mobile | 01:22 |
| gene_ | and put a factory in it | 01:22 |
| gene_ | so what materials do you need for a seastead? | 01:22 |
| procto | kanzure: forget about manufacturing for a moment | 01:22 |
| kanzure | Sigh.\ | 01:23 |
| procto | kanzure: think of just living. let's assume a population of seasteaders living on seastdeas made close to land, with things made on land inside them | 01:23 |
| kanzure | No, I refuse to go into one-time use staticism. | 01:23 |
| gene_ | what materials are required? | 01:23 |
| procto | gene_: in the book | 01:23 |
| kanzure | one-time acquisition, I mean. | 01:23 |
| gene_ | and how do you deal with waves? | 01:23 |
| procto | gene_: some | 01:23 |
| gene_ | what book? | 01:23 |
| procto | gene_: see my link to kanzure | 01:23 |
| procto | kanzure: here's the deal. developing industry on a seastead will only be different in one major way from the same thing on land: the logistics of getting to oceanic location- | 01:24 |
| procto | kanzure: you want those b2b contracts? you start a business. get investors. register it in Vanuatu, and you're on | 01:25 |
| kanzure | but that's totally bullshit | 01:25 |
| procto | ok, let's put it like this. How do you start a factory in the US? | 01:26 |
| kanzure | wait, what's Vanuatu? | 01:26 |
| procto | it's a country | 01:26 |
| kanzure | another arbitrary RosettaNet, ebXML, EDI thing? | 01:26 |
| fenn | vanuatu = data haven | 01:26 |
| kanzure | procto: Why does it have to be in the US? | 01:26 |
| fenn | because you live in the US | 01:26 |
| kanzure | the way that you start a factory is <see designs + instructions here> but oh wait, nobody does it like this anyway and doesn't have a clue | 01:26 |
| procto | kanzure: I'm just curious. doesn't have to be. just an example hele. | 01:26 |
| kanzure | oh | 01:26 |
| kanzure | not a directory | 01:26 |
| procto | no | 01:26 |
| procto | all I'm saying is this | 01:27 |
| procto | starting a factory is starting a factory | 01:27 |
| procto | you need capital | 01:27 |
| procto | you need materials | 01:27 |
| procto | and you need transportation of those materials. this you can purchase with the capital. | 01:27 |
| procto | on land, you need trucks or whatever | 01:27 |
| kanzure | Not arguing about that .. | 01:27 |
| kanzure | sigh | 01:27 |
| procto | en the sea, you need a ship, which would probably be more expensive | 01:28 |
| procto | and so it depends on whether you have the capital | 01:28 |
| kanzure | look, just because you want to bend over and pay millions for your stupid material sourcing ventures, doesn't mean that this is optimal or ideal or worth doing for the expected return | 01:28 |
| gene_ | or you live on a ship | 01:28 |
| gene_ | heh | 01:28 |
| gene_ | expected reture | 01:28 |
| fenn | OMG kanzure is showing signs of economic thinking :) | 01:28 |
| gene_ | return | 01:28 |
| procto | ok, I see the problem here | 01:28 |
| gene_ | I thought you weren't for profit kanzure | 01:28 |
| kanzure | well yeah, "click here to get your steel! oh wait, sorry, bad credit. fuck you too." | 01:29 |
| kanzure | not talking about money :) | 01:29 |
| procto | first, I will employ iterative incremental development in my personal seasteading ventures | 01:29 |
| kanzure | I revert to an attention-is-worth-stuff model when talking quickly, sorry. | 01:29 |
| procto | i'm not going to plonk down 20 mil on go "build me a floating city" because that is bullshit | 01:30 |
| procto | s/on/and | 01:30 |
| gene_ | you need to have something fairly big to not go "rocky hilton" | 01:30 |
| kanzure | so the alternative that I've been considering is automated robotic mining of abandoned mines for an open source energy+material backbone | 01:30 |
| gene_ | a rocking factory is hard to make stuff in | 01:30 |
| kanzure | for the energy backbone this is somewhat easier with algaes | 01:31 |
| gene_ | so why do mines get a abandoned kanzure? | 01:31 |
| kanzure | for materials, there's a database of abandoned mines | 01:31 |
| procto | my initial statement was that one could deploy small fab shops on a ship that can build things on small scales, with impunity in regards to patent laws | 01:31 |
| procto | increase the scale | 01:31 |
| procto | and your problems grow exponentially | 01:31 |
| kanzure | gene_: structural instability sometimes | 01:31 |
| procto | as they always do | 01:31 |
| gene_ | that's good to hear | 01:31 |
| kanzure | robots that build themselves, what do I care if they get smashed? (besides crying a bit inside) | 01:31 |
| fenn | poor robots | 01:32 |
| kanzure | fenn: that feels like a shirt. | 01:32 |
| gene_ | reminds me of the time when they were testing this one walking robot for destroying landmines by walking on to them | 01:32 |
| kanzure | "POOR ROBOT. :(" on the front. on the back: "Markov in training" or something. | 01:32 |
| kanzure | gene_: why walking, and not rolling? | 01:32 |
| kanzure | besides rocky territory issues. | 01:32 |
| gene_ | the bomb range people felt it was inhumane | 01:32 |
| kanzure | hrm. nevermind. | 01:33 |
| fenn | it had 2x4's for legs, so when the mine blows up you just lose a 2x4 | 01:33 |
| gene_ | rocky territory | 01:33 |
| gene_ | cheapness | 01:33 |
| kanzure | fenn: ah. | 01:33 |
| gene_ | legs far away from body | 01:33 |
| kanzure | yeah, so Hod's approach to evolving robo-ecologies would do fine for material sourcing if nobody wants to cooperate with ventures like procto's | 01:33 |
| gene_ | if it steps on a landmine the leg gets damaged but not the body | 01:33 |
| gene_ | link kanzure | 01:34 |
| kanzure | although, procto, what's the matter with the seament stuff again? | 01:34 |
| kanzure | besides not being able to make everything out of it of course, but a good significant amount of things? | 01:34 |
| gene_ | surprizingly this mine stepping robot was intended to be part of a robot ecology too | 01:34 |
| kanzure | same link, gene. | 01:34 |
| kanzure | stupid tab. | 01:34 |
| gene_ | where? | 01:34 |
| procto | kanzure: seacrete is not cost efficient. it is extremely expensive energy-wise. | 01:35 |
| procto | kanzure: ferroconcrete is a much more viable alternative | 01:35 |
| procto | kanzure: that kind of stuff is all addressed in the book | 01:35 |
| gene_ | wait a minute kanzure are you refering to beam when you mean robot ecologies? | 01:36 |
| kanzure | procto: that's unfortunate. I was reading the description in the link and it looked pretty neat. | 01:36 |
| fenn | procto: it'll take a while to read through this book.. do they suggest PSP's or something else? | 01:36 |
| kanzure | production method? | 01:36 |
| procto | kanzure: just so you know when you read it, any plans suggested are exploratory and meant to convey research and possibilities | 01:36 |
| kanzure | gene_: No. | 01:37 |
| procto | fenn: no | 01:37 |
| kanzure | I specifically said hod lipson | 01:37 |
| gene_ | Can't find any papers about hod lipson and robot ecology | 01:37 |
| kanzure | Hod has his robo ecologies + fab@home because he wants to have robots explore environments for specific missions and re-design themselves to be better | 01:37 |
| procto | fenn: in the book they describe a single spar design as preferable, but TSI is moving away from that | 01:37 |
| gene_ | I only get Mark Tilden | 01:38 |
| gene_ | that makes sense | 01:38 |
| procto | they've been working with a marine engineering firm to provide initial designs | 01:38 |
| procto | and once they have them | 01:38 |
| procto | they will publish them publically for free | 01:38 |
| gene_ | a single spar ain't exactly the fastest way to get around | 01:38 |
| procto | gene_: it's not supposed to move around a lot | 01:38 |
| kanzure | procto: how do you get the steel rebars for this ferrocement? | 01:38 |
| kanzure | magic? | 01:38 |
| procto | gene_: just drift slowly | 01:38 |
| procto | kanzure: you build it all in drydocks, just like regular ships | 01:39 |
| kanzure | gene_: http://heybryan.org/~bbishop/docs/ has lipson.zip | 01:39 |
| gene_ | kanzure bioleaching | 01:39 |
| kanzure | gene_: check your logs, I linked to lipson.zip the other day. | 01:39 |
| procto | kanzure: kanzure like I said... that kind of basic research is all in the book... | 01:39 |
| kanzure | procto: I'm reading, and I'm not seeing. | 01:39 |
| procto | well, keep going | 01:39 |
| procto | I have to bounce now | 01:39 |
| procto | later | 01:39 |
| kanzure | gene's answer is better | 01:40 |
| gene_ | http://www.seafriends.org.nz/oceano/seawater.htm | 01:40 |
| kanzure | I've been reading about bioleaching methods 'recently' | 01:40 |
| gene_ | i am willing to bet that all the components for steel are in seawater | 01:40 |
| kanzure | I'm sure it is, but high volume processing gets difficult and energetically inefficient | 01:41 |
| kanzure | but I guess that's what we were planning for asteroid biomining | 01:41 |
| gene_ | and guess what, there happens to be a rather handy protein out there that is used by sea cucumbers to concentrate a component of steel | 01:41 |
| gene_ | from minute to very high concentrations | 01:41 |
| fenn | "a component of steel"? | 01:41 |
| gene_ | vanadium | 01:42 |
| gene_ | vanabin | 01:42 |
| gene_ | vanadium binder | 01:42 |
| gene_ | vanadium 0.0019 ppm in seawater | 01:42 |
| gene_ | nickel 0.0066 ppm | 01:43 |
| gene_ | holy shit moly 0.01 ppm! | 01:44 |
| gene_ | you know we might want to try bioleaching | 01:44 |
| fenn | i read somewhere uranium leaching from seawater could cost about $1000/kg | 01:46 |
| fenn | practical for uranium, not so much for structural materials | 01:46 |
| gene_ | uranium 0.0033 ppm | 01:46 |
| fenn | this was using bags of zeolite i think | 01:46 |
| gene_ | moly 0.01 ppm! | 01:47 |
| gene_ | moly is a component of steel | 01:47 |
| fenn | um, have you ever seen a steel refinery? | 01:47 |
| gene_ | not in person | 01:48 |
| gene_ | anyway | 01:48 |
| kanzure | heh | 01:48 |
| fenn | it's too bad magnesium is so flammable | 01:48 |
| kanzure | they are simultaneously impressive and disappointing | 01:48 |
| kanzure | the ones that I've seen have the giant molten pots | 01:48 |
| gene_ | magnesium isn't that flammable | 01:49 |
| kanzure | sometimes the giant electrodes and so on | 01:49 |
| fenn | gene_: you've got to be kidding | 01:49 |
| kanzure | but also quite primitive. guess it works. | 01:49 |
| gene_ | in big amounts with not that much surface area | 01:49 |
| gene_ | I kid you not | 01:49 |
| fenn | gene_: lots of down engineers died in explosions before they got the casting process figured out | 01:49 |
| fenn | s/down/DOW chemical co./ | 01:49 |
| gene_ | http://www.theodoregray.com/PeriodicTable/Elements/012/index.html | 01:50 |
| fenn | and if you want to make something useful you probably have to machine the castings = lots of tiny high surface area chips | 01:50 |
| gene_ | spray water on it | 01:51 |
| gene_ | that would immobilize the powder | 01:51 |
| gene_ | I can't find the concentration of iron in seawater though... | 01:54 |
| gene_ | perhaps, you could extract it from magnetite in sand in shallow area | 01:54 |
| gene_ | Kanzure, there is something I severly want to do | 01:56 |
| kanzure | ? | 01:56 |
| gene_ | I just stumbled on to this youtube page | 01:57 |
| gene_ | or youtube channel | 01:57 |
| gene_ | of this person | 01:57 |
| gene_ | who makes howto videos, FAKE howto videos | 01:58 |
| gene_ | the sad thing is people actually believe that they aren't fake | 01:58 |
| gene_ | I want to hack youtube so that the video gets rated down | 01:59 |
| gene_ | pointless though | 01:59 |
| gene_ | just annoying | 01:59 |
| gene_ | forget it | 02:00 |
| gene_ | fenn just out of curiousity? | 02:00 |
| gene_ | how do you remove a cnc cut item the whole block of metal | 02:00 |
| gene_ | v | 02:04 |
| gene_ | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vanabins | 02:04 |
| gene_ | bioleaching | 02:04 |
| kanzure_ | http://aem.asm.org/cgi/content/abstract/69/11/6442 Bioaccumulation of Copper Ions by Escherichia coli Expressing Vanabin Genes from the Vanadium-Rich Ascidian Ascidia sydneiensis samea | 02:06 |
| gene_ | the real mystery of vanabin isn't how it works it's why the hell seacucumbers even have it | 02:06 |
| fenn | vanadium has a lot of redox states, or something | 02:14 |
| gene_ | you'd think they'd use it for oxygen transport with the amount of it in seacucumbers | 02:15 |
| gene_ | but they already have another protein that already does that | 02:15 |
| gene_ | another reason could be as a toxin | 02:15 |
| gene_ | This concentration is 10,000,000 times higher than that in seawater. | 02:15 |
| gene_ | sauce wiki | 02:16 |
| gene_ | now then | 02:17 |
| gene_ | how do we farm lot's and lot's of sea cucumbers? | 02:17 |
| fenn | you dont have to, that's why they made the recombinant e coli | 02:17 |
| fenn | or you could use some kind of algae for doing open ocean mariculture | 02:18 |
| kanzure | bingo | 02:18 |
| kanzure | I have a super secret algae consultant coming in here in 30 minutes maybe | 02:18 |
| fenn | ask him about vanabin | 02:18 |
| kanzure | will you not be around? | 02:19 |
| gene_ | then you risk contaminating the oceans and getting some sort of economic sanctions pressed against your small country | 02:19 |
| kanzure | no | 02:19 |
| gene_ | oh kanzure are you going to the thing tomorrow? | 02:19 |
| kanzure | not if you don't do it open ocean | 02:19 |
| kanzure | you just need it open ocean input | 02:19 |
| kanzure | the nextgen thingy conference? | 02:19 |
| kanzure | yes | 02:19 |
| gene_ | yeah | 02:19 |
| gene_ | cool | 02:19 |
| gene_ | think I'll go to | 02:20 |
| kanzure | don't you have class? | 02:20 |
| fenn | contaminating the oceans with genengineered algae? | 02:20 |
| kanzure | fenn: no, do it in a box | 02:20 |
| fenn | thats sort of like saying 'contaminate north america with genengineered corn' | 02:20 |
| kanzure | but I'm not really worried about that sort of thing | 02:20 |
| kanzure | unless we make something brutal .. tissue eating algae for instance :p | 02:20 |
| fenn | bah | 02:21 |
| fenn | it's grey goo scenario all over again | 02:21 |
| kanzure | I highly doubt bioleaching would turn to tissue eating | 02:21 |
| gene_ | heh | 02:21 |
| gene_ | tissue eating | 02:21 |
| fenn | what if you ate the algae | 02:21 |
| gene_ | more like cause red tide | 02:21 |
| fenn | big bowls of algae salad | 02:21 |
| gene_ | you die | 02:21 |
| gene_ | you die fenn, you die | 02:22 |
| gene_ | anyway | 02:22 |
| fenn | no you die gene, you die | 02:22 |
| gene_ | I don't eat algae | 02:22 |
| fenn | i said "what if you ate the algae" not "what if i ate the algae" | 02:22 |
| gene_ | anyway, even if you are closed culture | 02:22 |
| gene_ | there is still the risk of containment breaking | 02:23 |
| gene_ | if your sea stead gets struck by a rogue wave or what not | 02:23 |
| kanzure | .. | 02:23 |
| kanzure | we just mentioned this. | 02:23 |
| kanzure | you're going in circles. | 02:23 |
| gene_ | huh? | 02:24 |
| kanzure | "it's grey goo all over again" | 02:24 |
| kanzure | "bah" | 02:24 |
| gene_ | so add a self destruct mechanism | 02:26 |
| kanzure | no | 02:27 |
| kanzure | well, yes, but no | 02:27 |
| kanzure | a self destruct mechanism is nice, but just thinking spooky thoughts all the time isn't the way to get anything done | 02:27 |
| fenn | the point is that genengineered organisms are typically _less_ competetive in the wild than wild types | 02:27 |
| gene_ | good point | 02:27 |
| gene_ | forgot about that | 02:28 |
| fenn | self destruct doesnt really work with huge populations | 02:28 |
| gene_ | good enough as a self destruct | 02:28 |
| kanzure | selective pressures to avoid self-destruct. | 02:29 |
| gene_ | utilize proprietary technology | 02:29 |
| kanzure | ? | 02:29 |
| fenn | heh bacteria will ignore your patents | 02:29 |
| gene_ | if anything goes wrong the people who own it will be the ones who get sued | 02:29 |
| fenn | that doesnt fix the problem | 02:30 |
| gene_ | this isn't exactly ethical though.... | 02:30 |
| fenn | "if anything goes wrong, the engineers who designed the space shuttle will get fired" | 02:30 |
| gene_ | well | 02:30 |
| gene_ | so is ecoli even the ideal thing for doing this? | 02:31 |
| gene_ | osmotic pressure | 02:31 |
| fenn | no | 02:31 |
| gene_ | that's the self destruct mechanism | 02:31 |
| fenn | nonsense | 02:31 |
| fenn | it only works going from salt to fresh anyway | 02:31 |
| gene_ | concentrate the seawater a bit before it gets to the bacteria | 02:32 |
| fenn | vanadium 0.0019 ppm | 02:32 |
| gene_ | yeah | 02:33 |
| gene_ | and sea cucumbers do that | 02:33 |
| fenn | that means, to get a pound of vanadium you have to have 1e9 liters of seawater? | 02:34 |
| fenn | well realistically more than that since you wont get 100% | 02:34 |
| fenn | can you picture a 100 meter cube of seawater? i cant | 02:35 |
| fenn | that's a square kilometer 1 meter deep | 02:35 |
| fenn | so approximately 8.5cm square of vanadium 1cm thick | 02:38 |
| fenn | btw gene_ vanadium is more useful as an energy transport mechanism ("liquid batteries") than for steel alloys | 02:44 |
| gene_ | are you sure about that? | 02:46 |
| gene_ | you're right about that | 02:48 |
| kanzure | I shouldn't watch Fringe .. Dr. Bishop reminds me too much of Steve, and what Anna was telling me about institutions. | 02:49 |
| kanzure | mainly about institutions. | 02:49 |
| gene_ | fringe? | 02:49 |
| drazak | fringe is awesome, though | 02:50 |
| gene_ | does it involve cloning? | 02:50 |
| kanzure | The show about a researcher who was in a mnetal institute for 17 years; when he's taken out by his son, he has various issues. | 02:50 |
| drazak | sometimes | 02:50 |
| kanzure | personally I think the stories are pretty bad | 02:51 |
| drazak | doesn't make it less awesome | 02:51 |
| gene_ | transhuman themes? | 02:52 |
| kanzure | No, just some parts of transhuman tech .. one episode had an rTMS. | 02:52 |
| kanzure | gene_: it's on fox at the moment if you want to see. | 02:52 |
| gene_ | what channel is that? | 02:53 |
| kanzure | 2, KTBC-Austin | 02:53 |
| gene_ | memory wiper? | 02:54 |
| gene_ | so numbers can make a machine like this work | 02:56 |
| gene_ | lol | 02:56 |
| drazak | nfw | 02:57 |
| gene_ | portable hole? | 02:57 |
| fenn | ACME spazzmotron | 02:59 |
| fenn | turns anyone wearing it into a spazz | 02:59 |
| gene_ | I don't get it | 03:00 |
| gene_ | I'm not really a big TV person | 03:01 |
| gene_ | wait was that just a mind wiper | 03:01 |
| gene_ | those can be built | 03:01 |
| gene_ | for realz | 03:02 |
| kanzure | ? | 03:02 |
| kanzure | what the fuck was I thinking | 03:02 |
| kanzure | showing gene_ "Fringe" ? | 03:02 |
| kanzure | what a stupid idea. | 03:02 |
| gene_ | huh? | 03:03 |
| gene_ | well | 03:03 |
| gene_ | I only watched the last few seconds | 03:03 |
| kanzure | A meat grinder can also serve as a brain deleter. | 03:03 |
| gene_ | yeah | 03:03 |
| gene_ | a meat grinder leave a lot of evidence | 03:04 |
| gene_ | what you could just do is shoot an electron beam at the wipee's retina | 03:04 |
| gene_ | causing them to forget | 03:04 |
| gene_ | the last 4 seconds of what just happened | 03:05 |
| drazak | well | 03:05 |
| drazak | the one person that was abducted, did try to lobotomize herself | 03:05 |
| drazak | with a butter knife | 03:05 |
| gene_ | ok | 03:06 |
| gene_ | I think I might have to read the plot summary on wikipedia | 03:06 |
| drazak | what are those circular things that are supposed to show a genome? | 03:11 |
| kanzure | plasmid? | 03:12 |
| kanzure | or the type of diagram, you mean? | 03:12 |
| drazak | the type of diagram | 03:12 |
| kanzure | Where's faceface or nsh? | 03:12 |
| gene_ | wait is fringe still on? | 03:12 |
| drazak | no | 03:12 |
| kanzure | either one of them should know | 03:12 |
| gene_ | bet it's a plasmid | 03:12 |
| gene_ | if it is round | 03:12 |
| kanzure | no, | 03:12 |
| kanzure | there's a name to the diagram | 03:12 |
| kanzure | drazak: try looking up cDNA | 03:13 |
| gene_ | locus xxx | 03:13 |
| gene_ | gene diagram | 03:13 |
| gene_ | http://images.google.com/images?um=1&hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&q=gene+diagram+plasmid&btnG=Search+Images | 03:14 |
| drazak | ah ok | 03:14 |
| drazak | kanzure: I saw someone somewhere, and saw that it had genomic stuff, but wasn't sure what it was called | 03:14 |
| kanzure | Woah that was vague. | 03:14 |
| drazak | me? :P | 03:16 |
| drazak | oh, not someone, one | 03:16 |
| kanzure_ | http://www.kk.org/thetechnium/archives/2008/11/the_pro-actiona.php | 03:17 |
| kanzure_ | yay Kevin Kelly | 03:17 |
| gene_ | huh | 03:18 |
| gene_ | I don't get it | 03:18 |
| gene_ | http://www.sciencemuseum.org.uk/antenna/deadringers/blingbling/136.asp | 03:20 |
| kanzure | proactionary principle v. precautionary principle | 03:20 |
| gene_ | pasta | 03:20 |
| gene_ | what the fuck is that kanzure and why should I care about it | 03:20 |
| fenn | because we hear about it all the time in talks about "transhuman" subjects | 03:21 |
| fenn | substitute "precautionary principle" for "ethical" and you won't be far off | 03:21 |
| gene_ | um fenn | 03:21 |
| kanzure | ho ho ho, many many reasons | 03:21 |
| gene_ | apparently cd's use a ball screw for linear actuators | 03:22 |
| kanzure | also, Max More was moved enough to reply to it, and Max is local to us btw | 03:22 |
| kanzure | we have Mr. Proactionary himself local to us heh' | 03:22 |
| fenn | gene_: no, there is an acme screw with balls for single point bearings sometimes | 03:22 |
| gene_ | http://picasaweb.google.com/hanahawaii/JonkimCom#5053960922206736258 | 03:23 |
| gene_ | cd drives have ball screws sometimes | 03:23 |
| fenn | "our collective impulse to adapt technology as we use it" == technology | 03:23 |
| fenn | poxy web 2.0 picture albums.. rrgh | 03:24 |
| gene_ | indeed | 03:24 |
| gene_ | they suck | 03:24 |
| fenn | so can you link to a .jpg instead? | 03:25 |
| gene_ | no | 03:27 |
| gene_ | I'm sorry dave but I cannot do that | 03:27 |
| fenn | i will continue to disbelieve you then | 03:27 |
| fenn | you are but a figment of my imagination | 03:28 |
| fenn | *poof* | 03:28 |
| gene_ | I am not a figment of your imagination, you and I are figments of Haruhi's imagination | 03:28 |
| fenn | hmm i am considering watching that instead of working on my brakes in the cold | 03:29 |
| fenn | this winter stuff sucks | 03:29 |
| gene_ | video glasses and a coat heater | 03:29 |
| fenn | its dark when i wake up and dark when i go to bed and no light in between | 03:29 |
| kanzure | fenn: move to Austin, there's no winter here .. ever. :( | 03:29 |
| gene_ | there is winter kanzure | 03:30 |
| gene_ | just not that cold | 03:30 |
| fenn | is it actually 72 and sunny? | 03:30 |
| gene_ | yeah | 03:30 |
| fenn | well that's good enough | 03:30 |
| gene_ | look on the brightside | 03:30 |
| gene_ | a colder environ is ideal for running computers really fast | 03:31 |
| gene_ | plus you get to experience all 3 phases of water(naturally) | 03:31 |
| fenn | oo | 03:31 |
| gene_ | we only get 2 | 03:32 |
| fenn | contrary to popular belief, it doesn't actually snow here | 03:32 |
| gene_ | sometimes we get teh third | 03:32 |
| gene_ | http://www.physorg.com/ | 03:36 |
| gene_ | crap | 03:36 |
| gene_ | http://www.physorg.com/news146230733.html | 03:36 |
| kanzure | http://deepspaceinternet.com/ "Interplanetary Internet" | 03:41 |
| kanzure | hit counter: 14 | 03:41 |
| kanzure | heh | 03:41 |
| gene_ | we need more nodes | 03:42 |
| gene_ | with lasers | 03:42 |
| kanzure | Have I ever sent you Tony's MASER story? | 03:43 |
| gene_ | no | 03:43 |
| gene_ | no you haven't | 03:43 |
| fenn | more like e-mail than IP | 03:44 |
| kanzure | http://heybryan.org/storyverse.html | 03:44 |
| kanzure | Tony writes scifi when he isn't busy being an old fart writing code for Blackwell Synergy | 03:44 |
| fenn | rofl "Anakin, Danlo and Muad'Dib" | 03:45 |
| fenn | i'm sure they would get along just fine | 03:45 |
| kanzure | clonal reincarnation :) | 03:45 |
| kanzure | refresh for better formatting | 03:45 |
| gene_ | you know you could potential use broken CD players to make a micromanipulator to do cloning | 03:47 |
| gene_ | I'm serious | 03:47 |
| kanzure | The big issue in cloning is not the micromanipulator, but rather the WOMB. | 03:47 |
| kanzure | Go find me a woman. | 03:47 |
| gene_ | they are rather cheap in thailand | 03:48 |
| fenn | maybe he means cloning hydras | 03:48 |
| gene_ | I believe | 03:48 |
| gene_ | no | 03:48 |
| gene_ | fenn | 03:48 |
| gene_ | humans | 03:48 |
| gene_ | dogs | 03:48 |
| gene_ | sure hydras too | 03:48 |
| fenn | kanzure: are you sure this isnt some kind of markov bot output? | 03:49 |
| kanzure | I have a group of five to ten people who would readily jump on board any seafaring project. | 03:49 |
| kanzure | we used to hang out in #calxia | 03:49 |
| kanzure | one in particular, Blake, wanted to keep some human test subjects | 03:49 |
| gene_ | I swear I'm human | 03:49 |
| gene_ | just trust me on this one | 03:50 |
| kanzure | fenn: you mean storyverse.html? | 03:50 |
| gene_ | I type fast fenn | 03:50 |
| kanzure | if your wpm is less than 150, you're not fast. | 03:50 |
| gene_ | I respond fast | 03:51 |
| gene_ | I don't know my wpm | 03:51 |
| fenn | meant storyverse | 03:51 |
| gene_ | oh | 03:51 |
| gene_ | btw | 03:51 |
| kanzure | fenn: I stick around Tony for good reasons. | 03:51 |
| gene_ | funding? | 03:52 |
| gene_ | hey if I cloned myself | 03:53 |
| gene_ | would they arrest me? | 03:53 |
| kanzure | Not saying. | 03:53 |
| kanzure | Why would you tell them? | 03:53 |
| gene_ | for the lulz | 03:53 |
| fenn | see raelians controversy for an example | 03:54 |
| gene_ | yeah I know | 03:55 |
| gene_ | but man if I really cloned myself | 03:56 |
| gene_ | it might make lot's a people very angry | 03:57 |
| gene_ | thus resulting in lulz | 03:57 |
| gene_ | man raelia- whatever the fuck it is, is very messed up | 03:59 |
| fenn | i thought it wasnt bad as far as religions go | 03:59 |
| gene_ | well at least they try to do research | 04:00 |
| gene_ | though they aren't particulary productive when it comes to that | 04:00 |
| fenn | i'm dubious about their "research" - it seems more like a publicity stunt than anything | 04:00 |
| gene_ | yeah | 04:01 |
| gene_ | good point | 04:01 |
| * fenn mumbles something about "outquisition" | 04:01 | |
| kanzure | story time? | 04:02 |
| gene_ | maybe if you set up the memes right you could get people to do something productive | 04:02 |
| kanzure | .. | 04:03 |
| fenn | somebody set us up the meme | 04:03 |
| kanzure | you can't be serious? | 04:03 |
| gene_ | step 1 in creating a meme | 04:03 |
| fenn | all ur labs r belong to us | 04:03 |
| gene_ | expose lots of people to it | 04:03 |
| gene_ | step 2 to creating a meme expose lots of people to it | 04:04 |
| fenn | 3. profit! | 04:04 |
| gene_ | no step 3 is ??? | 04:04 |
| gene_ | 4 is profit | 04:04 |
| gene_ | but really | 04:04 |
| fenn | you're doing it wrong | 04:04 |
| gene_ | if you spam a message board enough times with the same thing | 04:05 |
| fenn | you will get banned | 04:05 |
| kanzure | but you don't know how to program | 04:05 |
| gene_ | eventually others will start saying the meme too | 04:05 |
| gene_ | yes I might get banned | 04:05 |
| gene_ | aren't there ways to get around that? | 04:06 |
| kanzure | you're spamming manually? | 04:06 |
| kanzure | there are so many things wrong with this | 04:06 |
| gene_ | it works | 04:06 |
| gene_ | people do it | 04:06 |
| gene_ | not me | 04:06 |
| kanzure | first, there's no neurophysiological basis to ideas that you can link directly back to meme theory, so you can't engineer that quite yet | 04:06 |
| kanzure | secondly, manual spamming is not effective | 04:06 |
| gene_ | heh | 04:06 |
| gene_ | try it | 04:06 |
| gene_ | try it on 4chan | 04:06 |
| gene_ | do it a lot | 04:07 |
| gene_ | and I mean a lot on /b/ | 04:07 |
| fenn | /b/ is only receptive to certain kinds of memes | 04:07 |
| kanzure | manual spamming is not effective | 04:07 |
| kanzure | this is why you write bots .. | 04:07 |
| gene_ | WARNING: DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCE LOOK DIRECTLY AT /b/ | 04:07 |
| gene_ | it's what people do fenn | 04:08 |
| kanzure | .. | 04:08 |
| fenn | meme != catchy internet slogan | 04:08 |
| gene_ | http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/Forced_Meme | 04:08 |
| gene_ | or at least people try to and fail | 04:08 |
| gene_ | it's a useless thing to do though | 04:09 |
| gene_ | hmmm... neurological basis of memes | 04:10 |
| kanzure | Do you understand why you are wrong? | 04:10 |
| gene_ | yes | 04:10 |
| gene_ | ever herd of deep structures kanzure? | 04:10 |
| gene_ | the fact that we perceive certain sounds as sharp or soft? | 04:12 |
| kanzure | In various contexts. Which one? | 04:12 |
| gene_ | certain colors as cold or hot? | 04:12 |
| gene_ | both | 04:12 |
| gene_ | I think I might be getting confused with something here | 04:13 |
| gene_ | ok so there was this one experiment | 04:13 |
| gene_ | you have two shapes | 04:13 |
| gene_ | shape a is round | 04:13 |
| fenn | Furthermore, desu is what this capitalist globalist web2.0 world gets for raising yet another generation of retards and dizzying them with blinking lights and empty phrases until they are so phased out they cannot even realize their own discord let alone produce a coherent sentence DESU~. | 04:14 |
| kanzure | qualia studies? | 04:14 |
| kanzure | :( | 04:14 |
| gene_ | shape b is sharp with triangles | 04:14 |
| kanzure | oh, wait | 04:15 |
| kanzure | "Certain shapes as certain sounds", yes | 04:15 |
| kanzure | triangle => sharp pointy sounds | 04:15 |
| gene_ | people of all languages tended to call shape A buboes | 04:15 |
| gene_ | and shape B something like sketsies | 04:15 |
| kanzure | fenn: What are you reading? | 04:15 |
| gene_ | DATABASE ERROR | 04:15 |
| gene_ | fenn is reading something that should not be read | 04:16 |
| gene_ | DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU | 04:16 |
| gene_ | man, knowing how memes work in the brain could make for some really dangerous advertisments | 04:21 |
| kanzure | .. more silly for-profit stuff.. | 04:21 |
| kanzure | I'm also not interested in advertizing for non-profit stuff, | 04:22 |
| kanzure | since rarely does this make sure that the audience actually knows what they are doing. | 04:22 |
| gene_ | Kanzure read Snow Crash | 04:22 |
| gene_ | read Snow Crash now | 04:22 |
| gene_ | I don't want to spoil anything for you but it's about memes | 04:23 |
| kanzure | I know. I avoid the book. | 04:25 |
| gene_ | why? | 04:25 |
| gene_ | why kanzure? | 04:25 |
| gene_ | is it too viral? | 04:26 |
| kanzure | No. | 04:26 |
| kanzure | What does that even mean? | 04:26 |
| fenn | it means you froth at the mouth and tell people to read it | 04:26 |
| gene_ | read snow crash | 04:27 |
| gene_ | and you will find out | 04:27 |
| gene_ | anyway how do we deal with anti-transhumanists without causing a war | 04:28 |
| kanzure | What are you talking about? | 04:28 |
| gene_ | everything | 04:28 |
| kanzure | Are the antitranshumanists stopping you from constructing some sort of device? | 04:28 |
| gene_ | no | 04:29 |
| kanzure | Are these so-called antitranshumanists physically stopping you at your door? | 04:29 |
| kanzure | Are they killing you? | 04:29 |
| kanzure | Are they bruising you? | 04:29 |
| gene_ | it's just they could become a threat in time | 04:29 |
| gene_ | good point | 04:29 |
| kanzure | Are they in any way, shape or form all that "anti" other than making a lot of bullshit on blogs and so on? | 04:29 |
| kanzure | uh? | 04:29 |
| kanzure | some of the concepts of posthuman/transhuman would suggest that their 'threat' would be like that of an ant in comparison to a, uh, well I guess a superant | 04:30 |
| gene_ | ok | 04:30 |
| gene_ | hmm.... | 04:30 |
| gene_ | I guess so | 04:30 |
| kanzure | Wikipedia has a terrible transhumanism article. | 04:30 |
| kanzure | http://heybryan.org/transhumanism_def.html | 04:30 |
| kanzure | This is why I would rather point people towards the philosophy of extropy. | 04:31 |
| gene_ | I guess so | 04:31 |
| fenn | i'd say bush outlawing stem cell research is a good example of "anti-transhuman" affecting real things | 04:31 |
| kanzure | Although 'transhuman' is a good set of concepts too, not quite 'transhumanism' | 04:31 |
| kanzure | fenn: Korea. okay, besides their research maybe being fake of course. | 04:31 |
| fenn | what about korea? | 04:31 |
| gene_ | that's also the reason for the biohacking toolkit right? | 04:31 |
| kanzure | something about them doing stem cell research | 04:32 |
| fenn | or is this some obscure reference to raelians? | 04:32 |
| kanzure | my point is that your laws are not encoded into the fabric of the galaxies. | 04:32 |
| gene_ | fuck the raelians | 04:32 |
| gene_ | not literally | 04:32 |
| kanzure | no. | 04:32 |
| fenn | gene_: i thought that was the whole point :) | 04:32 |
| kanzure | gene_: Sort of, yes. There are many reasons for the toolkit stuff though. | 04:32 |
| gene_ | ok | 04:32 |
| kanzure | I wasn't trying to be disruptive with it, I just like packaging useful stuff together. | 04:32 |
| gene_ | so kanzure, I've been reading about droplet microfluidics | 04:33 |
| gene_ | and I think it might be possible to make a DNA synth with it | 04:33 |
| gene_ | droplet microfluidics is where instead of using tiny channels to move chemicals around | 04:34 |
| kanzure | HOw is this different from oligonucleotide synthesis? | 04:34 |
| gene_ | you use electrostatic forces to drive droplets around | 04:34 |
| gene_ | it isn't | 04:34 |
| gene_ | it's doing oligo synth fast | 04:35 |
| kanzure | The idea of the biotech-toolkit-reactor projects was to grow the chemicals in some bacteria in a local culture because all of the chemicals are so specialized and ridiculously expensive. | 04:36 |
| gene_ | yeah | 04:36 |
| kanzure | The writozyme/retarded polymerase was because it'd be easy to grow, but if microfluidics is easier than letting stuff sit and meiosisitize, let's hear it. | 04:37 |
| gene_ | so in order to do that you have to download and "compile" some code | 04:37 |
| ybit | http://videocast.nih.gov/ | 04:37 |
| gene_ | do we have a retarded polymerase? | 04:37 |
| gene_ | no | 04:37 |
| kanzure | to do what? | 04:38 |
| kanzure | ybit: What do they have? | 04:38 |
| kanzure | we have it 50% ;-) | 04:38 |
| kanzure | but seriously, it's a question of added complexity really | 04:39 |
| kanzure | micromachining for fluidics, versus the chemistry that has to go into making shrinkydinks, etc. | 04:39 |
| gene_ | polystyrene can be bought a local store | 04:39 |
| kanzure | what structure do you have for the droplet microfluidics device ? I mean, machining requirements. | 04:39 |
| ybit | their podcast section: http://videocast.nih.gov/PastEvents.asp?p=1 -- just something to listent to when you are driving, running, or lazy | 04:39 |
| ybit | or watch* | 04:40 |
| kanzure | gene_: that's not a long term strategy .. | 04:40 |
| kanzure | neat. | 04:40 |
| gene_ | rome wasn't built in a day | 04:41 |
| kanzure | but gentoo is. | 04:41 |
| gene_ | oh and shrinky dinks probably won't work for oligo synth | 04:43 |
| gene_ | PS isn't chemical resistant enough | 04:43 |
| gene_ | http://www.princeton.edu/~wagner/pictures.htm | 04:45 |
| gene_ | can't find size | 04:45 |
| kanzure | gene_: but if you want to use that reasoning (just pay for it), check out the online DNA synthesis services like http://e-oligos.com/ and http://mrgene.com/ which we will probably be integrating into synbioss/hy3s/the-SBML-circuit-stuff Real Soon. | 04:45 |
| gene_ | I want my own damn gene synthesizer | 04:46 |
| kanzure | yeah but what good is it if it's just a one-shot deal? | 04:47 |
| kanzure | anyway, what was wrong with POGAM? | 04:47 |
| gene_ | anyway channel microfluidics are a lot harder to construct than droplet microfluidics | 04:47 |
| gene_ | POSAM | 04:47 |
| gene_ | 8 nucleotides | 04:47 |
| gene_ | very expensive | 04:48 |
| kanzure | POSAM. | 04:48 |
| kanzure | http://bioinformatics.org/pogo/ | 04:48 |
| gene_ | channel microfluidics have to have tiny valves | 04:48 |
| fenn | gene thanks for damaging my brain with that 4chan shit | 04:49 |
| gene_ | you didn't have to look at it | 04:49 |
| gene_ | when I go to 4chan | 04:49 |
| gene_ | I defocus my eyes | 04:49 |
| gene_ | I never look directly at the page | 04:49 |
| kanzure | fenn, I thought you were a 4chan native? | 04:50 |
| fenn | nup | 04:50 |
| fenn | its only been around a couple years | 04:50 |
| kanzure | so you've heard me talking about 4chan from time to time and never bothered to wonder? | 04:50 |
| kanzure | what about 4chan's ridiculous popularity? | 04:50 |
| fenn | no, i've researched it | 04:50 |
| gene_ | I can't conceive of a cheap way to make a channel microfluidics with microvalves | 04:50 |
| kanzure | "researched". | 04:50 |
| kanzure | huh. | 04:50 |
| kanzure | well this is news to me. | 04:50 |
| fenn | i also know of its cancerous viral potential and maintained adequate distance | 04:51 |
| kanzure | The actual viral potential is not as advertized. | 04:51 |
| kanzure | It's hard to explain, but it's more because of the people behind it more than it is the 4chan effect. | 04:51 |
| kanzure | I shouldn't try. | 04:51 |
| * kanzure goes away. | 04:52 | |
| fenn | slashdot is almost as bad | 04:52 |
| gene_ | kanzure would you like to see a recent meme to escape 4chan | 04:52 |
| gene_ | it's quite funny | 04:52 |
| gene_ | and math related | 04:52 |
| kanzure | no, because you have a warped perception of what a 'meme' really is. | 04:52 |
| gene_ | what isn't a meme kanzure? | 04:53 |
| wrldpc___ | Is this getting annoying? | 04:53 |
| wrldpc___ | why? | 04:53 |
| kanzure | wrldpc___: Is what getting annoying? | 04:53 |
| wrldpc___ | is my constant connecting/disconnecting becoming annoying? | 04:54 |
| gene_ | function discussionaboutmemes() end; | 04:54 |
| gene_ | no | 04:54 |
| gene_ | http://i35.tinypic.com/2l8fbwl.jpg | 04:55 |
| gene_ | anyway if a gene synthesizer can be built from household materials does it matter if it can replicate? | 04:58 |
| gene_ | (at an early stage) | 04:58 |
| gene_ | Hey I just realized something | 05:05 |
| gene_ | people will pay a lot for a cloned dog | 05:05 |
| kanzure | there's a company doing that btw | 05:06 |
| kanzure | uhm, or almost doing that | 05:06 |
| kanzure | In 1999 there were private groups cloning dogs for private investors. But then more recently I heard about something that was either a startup or already doing it. By recently I mean I heard of it last year. | 05:07 |
| gene_ | they did | 05:09 |
| kanzure | I think I have some links in my bookmarks | 05:10 |
| gene_ | controversy resulted | 05:10 |
| kanzure | http://heybryan.org/bookmarks/bookmarks-old2/ | 05:10 |
| kanzure | for clonetech companies. | 05:10 |
| gene_ | allegedly the person had the dog cloned was a criminal | 05:10 |
| kanzure | I wonder why they bothered telling people about it. | 05:10 |
| gene_ | news | 05:10 |
| gene_ | http://www.suicidebots.com/2008/11/17/more-hexapod-adorableness/ | 05:10 |
| gene_ | contemplate this | 05:10 |
| gene_ | lot's of degrees of freedom | 05:11 |
| gene_ | the only parts that have to be fabricated are 2d | 05:11 |
| gene_ | semi-replication perharps? | 05:11 |
| gene_ | show actlab that video | 05:13 |
| gene_ | get actlab to buy hexapod | 05:13 |
| kanzure | Ah, yeah, I'm registered on Trossen Robotics. | 05:13 |
| gene_ | I am too | 05:13 |
| kanzure | They have no funding. | 05:13 |
| gene_ | that's not the hexapod I am refering to | 05:13 |
| gene_ | the ones in the video | 05:14 |
| kanzure | but I've been considering donating a fablab to actlab | 05:14 |
| kanzure | it's kind of a big financial decision though. | 05:14 |
| gene_ | well I am wondering if a hexapod robot could have tools placed on it and use those tools to assemble more hexbots | 05:14 |
| gene_ | then again this might be a sleep depravation induced mad idea | 05:18 |
| kanzure | Hrm. | 07:33 |
| kanzure | Amtomat? | 07:33 |
| kanzure | Looks like I've got my anime back. Yay television. | 07:33 |
| bkero | wootoff | 07:36 |
| bkero | Most anime is terrible ;P | 07:36 |
| fenn | 90% of everything is crud | 07:37 |
| fenn | then again, anime is the only real outlet for scifi anymore, so maybe it just derives its 90% crudness from scifi | 07:38 |
| kanzure | Aww. it's over. | 07:38 |
| bkero | Most scifi is terrible too, heh. | 07:39 |
| kanzure | Angelica, Claes, Henrietta, Jobe, Marco, Triela, by Funimation (well, that we could have guessed) | 07:39 |
| kanzure | what am I watching? | 07:39 |
| kanzure | Gunsl* girl? | 07:39 |
| bkero | Oh god gunslinger | 07:39 |
| bkero | Isn't that the woman who reloads with her cleavage? | 07:40 |
| kanzure | Only last few moments of it. | 07:40 |
| bkero | That's enough for me to not want to wach it. | 07:40 |
| kanzure | Scuse me? :?) | 07:40 |
| kanzure | Like, cleavage reload feature? | 07:41 |
| bkero | It happens repeatedly | 07:41 |
| bkero | I've seen the last episode | 07:41 |
| bkero | cleavage reloading dual wtf | 07:41 |
| bkero | *duel | 07:41 |
| kanzure | I miss my pre-scheduled-for-me anime. | 07:43 |
| kanzure | Having to hunt it down over the internet is somehow slightly less exciting for discovery processes. | 07:44 |
| fenn | its the lack of instant gratitfication | 07:44 |
| bkero | I could give you some recommendations to avoid the abundance of shit. | 07:44 |
| fenn | if you could stream the first episode, tv would lose any advantage whatsoever | 07:44 |
| kanzure | I tend to just hang around crunchyroll if I want to watch something quick | 07:44 |
| kanzure | crunchyroll does anime streaming (sometimes) | 07:45 |
| bkero | fenn: http://www.hulu.com tv lost all advantage | 07:45 |
| kanzure | hard to sort out what has videos and what doesn't | 07:45 |
| fenn | *gasp* how is this possible! | 07:45 |
| fenn | they even know what my favorites are | 07:45 |
| fenn | like "My Testicles" | 07:46 |
| fenn | and "Sperm Dumpster" | 07:46 |
| kanzure_ | http://www.hulu.com/popular/episodes/all_time?channel=Animation+and+Cartoons&subchannel=Anime | 07:46 |
| kanzure_ | Heh, Death Note. | 07:46 |
| bkero | It's all dub | 07:46 |
| bkero | :/ | 07:46 |
| kanzure_ | some bleach, Ikki Tousen, Mushi-shi, xxxHolic, not bad .. | 07:46 |
| bkero | I'd consider those crap besides death note :/ | 07:47 |
| * bkero is into very weird anime | 07:47 | |
| fenn | speed racer? | 07:47 |
| fenn | wtf | 07:47 |
| fenn | i get the impression they are using a very small sample size | 07:48 |
| fenn | like, four people | 07:49 |
| bkero | ? | 07:50 |
| fenn | so, fixing my car was really quite pleasant, since i managed to let it warm up in the basement. unfortunately i was totally unable to actually fix anything | 07:50 |
| fenn | i wonder if i could machine this piston on my lathe, since i cant seem to find one for sale on the net | 07:54 |
| bkero | What are you trying to do to a piston? | 07:54 |
| fenn | rear brake caliper is stuck | 07:54 |
| bkero | compress it and bleed it loose | 07:55 |
| fenn | it doesnt want to go back in | 07:55 |
| bkero | Ah | 07:55 |
| bkero | Are you pushing the piston in dry? | 07:55 |
| fenn | no | 07:55 |
| fenn | i never took it out fwiw | 07:56 |
| fenn | from the manual, it looks like i should be able to rotate it with a pair of pliers, but that wasn't happening | 07:56 |
| fenn | i bet i could use an impact wrench somehow, but not tonight | 08:06 |
| kanzure | I went out to eat with some old high school buddies who happen to be living in the dorm, | 08:07 |
| kanzure | and for some reason they now want to replace football teach coaches with an ai | 08:07 |
| kanzure | not an ai I guess, I should call it a strategy selection program | 08:07 |
| * bkero has better things to do with his time. | 08:08 | |
| bkero | Like these sharks with lasers. | 08:08 |
| kanzure | I guess I'm happy that they are even thinking in that style | 08:08 |
| kanzure | Well, in all honesty it's not like it's particularly hard. Just go steal one of the game engines for football games, and load it up with historical data. | 08:08 |
| fenn | somehow i cant picture a bunch of jocks taking orders from a computer | 08:08 |
| kanzure | well that part I don't care about | 08:09 |
| kanzure | they claim people would pay for the program | 08:09 |
| kanzure | and if that's true, then I say let them show me that it is true | 08:10 |
| fenn | i claim you want to buy it. you want to buy it. | 08:10 |
| kanzure | I'm not particularly the best salesman, I can't get into headspace too significantly distant from my own | 08:10 |
| kanzure | jedi mind trick? | 08:10 |
| kanzure | hrm | 08:10 |
| * kanzure has to work on that one | 08:10 | |
| fenn | it doesn't work without the hand wave | 08:10 |
| kanzure | it only works on the 'weak minded' | 08:11 |
| kanzure | and since I go off on my all computational equivalenticisms of the human brain I guess I can see how that backfires :-p | 08:12 |
| fenn | nah the "weak minded" stuff is just a plot device | 08:13 |
| fenn | otherwise they'd just handwave the villain away | 08:13 |
| bkero | Sounds to me like someone said 'i hate my coach. hey computers are smart lets use one of those instead' | 08:14 |
| kanzure | No, it was actually an argument that they started about the mental v. physical aspects of football, so Bill (I've mentioned him before) was going on about how you could replace the coach since the coach's job is hardly physically demanding and still be an awesome game in the end. | 08:17 |
| fenn | problem with football is there's too many rules | 08:18 |
| kanzure | new email from some new guy on openmanufacturing about there being no optimal universal XML format for design representation | 08:24 |
| kanzure | I schooled him about what TAR/ZIP is all about heh' | 08:24 |
| kanzure_ | http://www.rasaero.com/ Rogers Aeroscience RASAero Aerodynamic Analysis and Flight | 08:24 |
| kanzure_ | Simulation Software | 08:24 |
| kanzure_ | how is this not covered by ITAR | 08:25 |
| kanzure_ | wtf | 08:25 |
| * kanzure rips it to http://heybryan.org/books/Aerospace/ | 08:27 | |
| fenn | probably too old for itar | 08:28 |
| kanzure | meh, only 50 MB. | 08:29 |
| kanzure | now that I look it seems like classical mechanics | 08:36 |
| * kanzure just got done reading the Paul email | 08:36 | |
| kanzure | I still don't understand why he is so fascinated with OWL | 08:38 |
| kanzure | I mean, stuff like seekda is cool, but it doesn't seem to require OWL or WSDL or anything | 08:38 |
| kanzure | it's just servers communicating with each other, and memory is still just giant page files | 08:38 |
| kanzure | Am I missing something? | 08:38 |
| kanzure | fenn: http://voiced.device.mst.edu/group/voiced/blog/ look at top post? wtf? | 08:41 |
| kanzure_ | http://voiced.device.mst.edu/groups/voiced/wiki/bf9be/Job_Posting.html | 08:43 |
| kanzure | So it turns out I've been subscribed to vtkusers for a long time. | 09:27 |
| kanzure | One of the latest emails has been about 2D constructive geometries, to which somebody replied that you want 'GNU GTS'. | 09:27 |
| fenn | psychology or sociology eh | 09:46 |
| fenn | i guess they dont care about actually making something that works | 09:47 |
| fenn | blog -> 404 | 09:47 |
| kanzure | maybe I linked to it wrong | 09:50 |
| fenn | how many job postings on nov 17 by matt campbell could there be | 09:50 |
| kanzure | I need to act like I'm sleeping, g'night | 09:51 |
| fenn | i tried that, it didnt work | 09:51 |
| fenn | (the sleeping thing) | 09:51 |
| willPow3r | http://home.swipnet.se/~w-17445/TXT/starthak.txt | 10:24 |
| UtopiahGHML | http://www.cyberpunkreview.com/movie/style/internet-short/ubuntuim-going-to-learn-ubuntu/ | 11:37 |
| drazak | plasmid diagram | 12:28 |
| kanzure | Does anybody know where I should forward transhuman-tech job postings to? | 13:00 |
| kanzure | I just got one about some company looking for postdocs in electrophysiology for an MEA business (already established, I know I make this sound like a startup) | 13:01 |
| kanzure | Who turns on the heat in Texas? The dorm is on a full-building heating/cooling system, so for some reason they think that it hitting 60 degrees at night is reason to turn on the heat. | 17:26 |
| kanzure | Takes about two days for the whole system to "switch". | 17:26 |
| kanzure_ | http://mail.google.com/mail/help/join_the_team.html "We take on hard computer science problems -- like making large amounts of Javascript run insanely fast on different browsers" | 17:28 |
| kanzure_ | "hard computer science problems" "like javascript" | 17:29 |
| kanzure_ | The solution to javascript is full and total oblitteration. | 17:29 |
| kanzure_ | Although since chrome maybe I shouldn't be laughing at them. | 17:31 |
| UtopiahGHML | know how Clerodane diterpenoids are synthetized? the biosynthetic pathways? | 17:58 |
| kanzure | check KEBB pathway db or reactome.org | 17:59 |
| UtopiahGHML | k thx | 17:59 |
| UtopiahGHML | you mean KEGG or KEBB? | 18:02 |
| kanzure | hrm. | 18:06 |
| kanzure | I forget. | 18:06 |
| kanzure | http://heybryan.org/mediawiki/index.php/Biology_databases | 18:07 |
| kanzure | Uh, that's a bad link | 18:07 |
| kanzure | http://heybryan.org/mediawiki/index.php/List_of_bioinformatics_databases might be good | 18:07 |
| UtopiahGHML | was KEGG but thanks a lot, Ive found a paper before but those might be useful yet | 18:08 |
| UtopiahGHML | Im still dont know anything about biology and chemistry and stuff but Im learning :) | 18:09 |
| kanzure | You should read biotech books, not plain bio. I mean, it's never "plain", but the epistemology of biotech is infinitely helpful in sorting things out. | 18:10 |
| UtopiahGHML | yes and I guess even bioinformatic directly would use some vocabulary and concept that could relate too more easilly | 18:11 |
| kanzure | well, maybe, but if you want to do bioinformatics seriously, you should go read the API docs :) to stuff like bioperl and biopython | 18:12 |
| * kanzure can tend to learn better reading code than reading books. | 18:13 | |
| UtopiahGHML | I should simply have a real bio project , that would make me learn way more efficiently thus faster. | 18:13 |
| kanzure | Talk with drazak about his PCR setup project, or maradydd in #diybio about her glow in the dark yogurt project. | 18:15 |
| UtopiahGHML | I guess Id be more interested in biotech regarding silico/bio interractions projects | 18:17 |
| kanzure | UtopiahGHML: Then I have a good project for you | 18:19 |
| kanzure | Or at least the components that you might be interested in | 18:19 |
| kanzure | uhm, did you ever see the "How to make an electrode" docs on the server? | 18:20 |
| UtopiahGHML | nop I didn't browse the server a lot | 18:20 |
| kanzure | http://heybryan.org/~bbishop/docs/neuro/ it's in one of the files that is either HTML or a 4 page PDF not formatted like a typical science paper | 18:20 |
| kanzure | and it shows how to wire the electrode and such and if I recall correctly maybe even a simple PCB | 18:20 |
| kanzure | anywho, the idea would be then to go on a frog hunt | 18:20 |
| UtopiahGHML | http://heybryan.org/~bbishop/docs/neuro/Electrode%20Assembly.pdf I guess | 18:23 |
| UtopiahGHML | but I have a younger sister, it could provide more interesting data than a frog | 18:24 |
| kanzure | How old are you? | 18:25 |
| UtopiahGHML | 26 | 18:26 |
| kanzure | You have an accessible younger sister? | 18:26 |
| UtopiahGHML | what do you mean "accessible"? | 18:27 |
| UtopiahGHML | if I can sell her? | 18:27 |
| kanzure | well I mean usually if you don't live with a younger sister you don't say "I have a sister to experiment on" | 18:27 |
| kanzure | and being 26 and living with a younger sister (not moving out?) is not typical, that's all. | 18:28 |
| UtopiahGHML | we dont live together but I can still put electrodes in her skull | 18:28 |
| UtopiahGHML | for the sake of Science | 18:29 |
| UtopiahGHML | and fun | 18:29 |
| kanzure | yeah, I was surprised to learn that people drill holes into their skulls for fun | 18:30 |
| kanzure | especially since it would seem obvious to me to leave something behind if you wanted to make it interesting in the mean time | 18:30 |
| kanzure | if you make a fine-tip electrode and drill into the brain of a human, supposedly via surface stimulation of the cortices you can really 'hack up' conscious experience in different ways | 18:31 |
| UtopiahGHML | you have a younger sister or brother too? | 18:32 |
| kanzure | both. | 18:33 |
| UtopiahGHML | nice | 18:34 |
| UtopiahGHML | plenty of experiments possible | 18:34 |
| kanzure_ | http://www.sys-bio.org/software/jdesigner.htm draw biochemical networks and export to sbml .. wonder if there's a database, or if it's just your knowledge of biochem units. | 18:41 |
| kanzure_ | oh that's right | 18:41 |
| kanzure_ | SBML has a model repository | 18:41 |
| kanzure_ | http://www.sys-bio.org/ModelDB/ <- this isn't the SBML model repository, but just another one from that link | 18:41 |
| kanzure_ | http://sbml.org/Voting_for_a_new_SBML_Editor_in_2009 | 18:42 |
| kanzure_ | hrm, BioUML? | 18:42 |
| kanzure_ | ACS.org has updated their site evidently and is all the flutter about it. Meh. | 18:45 |
| gene | http://www.physorg.com/news146319784.html | 19:33 |
| gene_ | http://www.physorg.com/news146319784.html | 19:34 |
| gene_ | does this affect us | 19:38 |
| gene_ | WTF | 19:47 |
| gene_ | this is odd | 19:48 |
| gene_ | I can't downlad inkscape? | 19:48 |
| gene_ | odd | 19:51 |
| gene_ | I can't download anything | 19:51 |
| UtopiahGHML | then how can you have msg from this IRC channel? | 19:52 |
| gene_ | hell if I know | 19:54 |
| UtopiahGHML | if you dont know what's happening just reboot your router | 19:55 |
| gene_ | computers are powered by magic smoke for all I care | 19:55 |
| gene_ | I can't | 19:55 |
| gene_ | I don't own the router | 19:55 |
| gene_ | strange | 19:56 |
| gene_ | I can dowload youtube videos | 19:56 |
| gene_ | but not heybryan.org | 19:57 |
| gene_ | o shit | 19:58 |
| gene_ | that wasn't a flash file | 19:58 |
| gene_ | that was a song named flash | 19:58 |
| gene_ | I can't download shit | 20:20 |
| fenn | $20 for UtopiahGHML's sister | 20:32 |
| fenn | does she come with accessories? | 20:32 |
| UtopiahGHML | nop it's the naked product | 20:33 |
| fenn | hmm well i guess that's ok | 20:33 |
| UtopiahGHML | with the certificates and stuff | 20:33 |
| UtopiahGHML | anybody tried it? http://www.splunk.com/ "Search and navigate IT data from applications, servers and network devices in real-time. Logs, configurations, messages, traps and alerts, scripts, code, metrics and more. If a machine can generate it - Splunk can eat it." | 20:43 |
| fenn | what, tail -f and grep? | 20:44 |
| UtopiahGHML | what you use commands instead of directly looking at data or using assembly?.. | 20:45 |
| fenn | I won't look at splunk on principle, because sourceforge puts ads for it at the bottom of my email messages | 20:46 |
| kanzure_- | gene: Connectionism & control theory isn't really anything new. | 20:51 |
| kanzure_- | http://psas.pdx.edu/ Portland State Aerospace Soc. hrm, nchaimov might like to hear about this. | 20:56 |
| kanzure_- | Gah. | 21:06 |
| kanzure_- | Suddenly I'm receiving emails that are cc'd to @pentagon.af.mil addresses. | 21:06 |
| kanzure_- | "silcene" = silicon version of graphene nanoribbons, this time with inert edges. If the synthesis process is similar as with graphene, then that would be interesting. Looks like they were doing it on silver surfaces. | 21:16 |
| xp_prg | kanzure_- whatup with the script man? | 21:17 |
| kanzure_- | *silicene | 21:18 |
| xp_prg | kanzure_- ? | 21:19 |
| kanzure_- | I've temporarily misplaced my link to a database that I was going to use with it. It wasn't the SBML model repository, and it wasn't BioModel (I don't think), but there's one that already stores kinematic equations and different biological elements beyond just biobricks. Particularly circuit information. | 21:19 |
| xp_prg | cool | 21:19 |
| procto | Splunk is quite nice | 21:22 |
| procto | UtopiahGHML: I've used it, and it's quite decent. I f I was a sysadmin for multiple system, I would almost certainly use it. | 21:23 |
| UtopiahGHML | procto: ok, thanks for the feedback | 21:24 |
| fenn | just got "structure in nature is a strategy for design" it has some neat geometry in it | 21:34 |
| fenn | "maximum diversity from a minimum set of components" is the general idea | 21:34 |
| kanzure | is this a book? | 21:40 |
| fenn | ya | 21:40 |
| kanzure | but yes, I think we've gone over those principles in here before | 21:40 |
| kanzure | "if you were to take any N items with you on a journey, what would you bring?" | 21:40 |
| fenn | p. 120 "Self-Replication of the Universal Network" | 21:41 |
| fenn | unfortunately its not as cool as it sounds | 21:41 |
| fenn | i'm totally gonna scan + ocr this | 21:42 |
| fenn | there sure is a lot of computer graphics for a 1978 book | 21:43 |
| fenn | or maybe they're just really well built models | 21:46 |
| kanzure_ | http://www.astroday.net/MKrovers.html Lunar rover testing in Hawaii for water production from rocks. Image gallery and acronym heavy text. | 21:49 |
| kanzure_ | http://linux.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1035149&cid=25822015 suggestion to integrate the new screenshots.debian.net with the apt system so that users get to see perceived quality of GUI software before they 'buy' | 22:03 |
| kanzure | I still don't understand Paul's fascination with his "semantic web" term that he throws around. | 22:23 |
| kanzure | What, was TCP/IP just invented the other day or something? | 22:23 |
| kanzure | did DNS just spring up over night ? | 22:23 |
| kanzure | I mean, this stuff has been around forever, why doesn't he just call it what it is, he wants to write a message passing standard on top of HTTP? | 22:23 |
| fenn | pointrel is more or less the same concept as opencyc | 22:35 |
| fenn | "semantic web" holy grail is for everything to be machine parseable | 22:36 |
| fenn | whereas TCP/IP can send lots of junk data like youtube videos :) | 22:36 |
| fenn | dear mark fawzi, no need to carry out your aggression at your therapist/gf on us | 22:41 |
| drazak | UtopiahGHML: 2 peltier devices, 2 computer fans, a microchip, some caps, resistors, and a pcr programmer, and woohoo polymerase chain reaction | 22:52 |
| drazak | er, avr programmer | 22:55 |
| fenn | in-mitten keyboard, now that would be cool | 23:23 |
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