| --- Day changed Sat Nov 22 2008 | ||
| fenn | i wonder if he uses code folding tools to hide the bulk of his quotes | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| kanzure | I wonder how he's managing it though | 00:00 |
| fenn | most of them have the python triple quote comment | 00:00 |
| kanzure | tagging? | 00:00 |
| fenn | maybe a good question to ask | 00:00 |
| kanzure | he's mentioned it before, on the openvirgle mailing list | 00:00 |
| kanzure | but it must not have been a good enough method for me to remember | 00:01 |
| kanzure | something about 'winter' in his reply, so search for that. | 00:01 |
| kanzure | more crap from Patrick. I should ignore him, but .. | 00:03 |
| fenn | grep -i 'winter' mail/openvirgle | 00:04 |
| fenn | nothing | 00:04 |
| kanzure | bleh | 00:04 |
| kanzure | I'll find in a moment, I'm busy trying to make up a reply to Patrick | 00:04 |
| fenn | i wonder if thingiverse intends to add some more metadata than just author | 00:09 |
| fenn | oh, tags hmmm | 00:10 |
| kanzure | 'winter'. Blah. I must be wrong. | 00:13 |
| kanzure | fenn: did you read my post to om about linking up different levels of abstraction in different packages in a skdb-like repo? | 00:39 |
| kanzure | by weaving and connecting the different arbitrary levels of packages into a common api framework? | 00:41 |
| kanzure | uh, I guess I need a better way to say that | 00:41 |
| -!- xp_prg2 is now known as xp_prg | 01:39 | |
| fenn | no, i'm a few days behind on om still | 01:43 |
| kanzure | randomly neglecting email? | 01:43 |
| kanzure | yay | 02:15 |
| kanzure | DARPA grant went through | 02:15 |
| kanzure | yay DARPA. | 02:15 |
| kanzure_ | "A summary of the study, released in advance, alleges that networks and databases used by the US government and American defense contractors are regularly targeted by Chinese hackers. 'China is stealing vast amounts of sensitive information from US computer networks,' says Larry Wortzel, chairman of the commission set up by Congress in 2000 to investigate US-China issues."" | 02:31 |
| kanzure_ | Which of these contractors would they be stealing from? | 02:32 |
| kanzure_ | Surely not Lockheed, for instance? | 02:32 |
| drazak | DARPA++ | 02:33 |
| drazak | we wouldn't be talking without them | 02:33 |
| kanzure_ | http://etherpad.com/ real time collaborative editing via AJAX | 02:34 |
| kanzure_ | erm, I should scarequote "real time" | 02:34 |
| kanzure | I wonder if the hacking that the Chinese are doing are just bruteforcing ssh logins. | 02:46 |
| kanzure | Hi `tty`. | 02:48 |
| `tty` | hey Bryan - marc here | 02:48 |
| kanzure | Ah, good. :) | 02:48 |
| `tty` | had to get mIRC.. nicer than FF plugin... havent been on irc in 10 yrs | 02:48 |
| `tty` | anyway, just parking here while I have my dinner :) | 02:49 |
| kanzure | Yeah, I've been tending to dump chatzilla on to anybody not knowing about IRC, but I now tend to go for irssi, a tty IRC client. | 02:49 |
| `tty` | cool | 02:49 |
| `tty` | will go over your site, and discuss as i go... the wine bottle staring back at me ... bbl :) | 02:51 |
| * fenn scowls at 4.38GB file | 06:18 | |
| fenn | all my DVD-R's are 4.37GB | 06:19 |
| fenn | it's actually only 5MB over | 06:20 |
| drazak | lol | 06:25 |
| gene | did you hear about that new media format that stores like a terabyte per disk? | 06:35 |
| drazak | blue ray is like 54gb | 06:35 |
| drazak | but yeah, there's something else, if I recall | 06:35 |
| gene | 3d disk storage | 06:36 |
| drazak | oh that stuff | 06:38 |
| ybit | http://host01.pipebytes.com/ | 07:50 |
| gene | does anyone know where I could get 3.2 kilos of americium | 07:51 |
| gene | guess not | 07:55 |
| gene | 3.2 kilos of americium is enough to make a nuclear battery | 07:56 |
| gene | check this out http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/mpapps/pagetools/print/news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7740484.stm?ad=1 | 07:56 |
| kanzure_ | http://richarddawkins.net/article,3361,Single-Celled-Giant-Upends-Early-Evolution,Discovery 1.4 inch single celled organism | 15:56 |
| kanzure | "During the 1971 World Science Fiction Convention, MIT students were chanting in the hotel hallways: THE RINGWORLD IS UNSTABLE!" | 16:04 |
| kanzure | hehehe | 16:04 |
| kanzure_ | http://www.abandonedmines.gov/ | 16:19 |
| kanzure_ | http://www.geocommunicator.gov/GeoComm/site_mapper/home/index.shtm "Site Mapper" | 16:20 |
| kanzure_ | http://www.geocommunicator.gov/blmMap/Map.jsp?MAP=SITEMAPPER | 16:20 |
| kanzure_ | bwahah | 16:20 |
| kanzure_ | I'm not getting any information to show up though | 16:22 |
| kanzure | interesting. | 16:26 |
| kanzure | Very confusing interface, but at least it's hypothetically stealable and parseable. | 16:26 |
| kanzure_ | "There are estimates of as many as 500,000 abandoned mines in our nation." | 16:28 |
| kanzure_ | This is begging for robots .. come on .. | 16:28 |
| kanzure_ | "Autonomous exploration and mapping of abandoned mines" http://www.ri.cmu.edu/pubs/pub_5317.html | 16:41 |
| kanzure_ | "Abandoned mines pose significant threats to society, yet a large fraction of them lack accurate maps. This article discusses the software architecture of an autonomous robotic system designed to explore and map abandoned mines. A new set of software tools is presented, enabling robots to acquire maps of unprecedented size and accuracy. On 30 May 2003, our robot "Groundhog" successfully explored and mapped a main corridor of the abandoned Mathies | 16:42 |
| kanzure_ | http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~thrun/3D/mines/ | 16:42 |
| kanzure_ | ooh http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~thrun/3D/mines/html/map0.html | 16:42 |
| kanzure_ | http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~thrun/3D/mines/mine-mapping/mine1-anim-alt.avi 10 MB, streams | 16:43 |
| kanzure_ | http://robots.stanford.edu/ | 16:45 |
| kanzure_ | "Click here for the CARMEN robot navigation software (open source)" | 16:45 |
| kanzure_ | http://carmen.sf.net/ | 16:46 |
| kanzure | Oh, found what I was looking for | 17:12 |
| kanzure | http://tin.er.usgs.gov/mrds/ | 17:12 |
| kanzure | Hi amaruk. | 17:49 |
| amaruk | Hi kanzure and hi all | 17:54 |
| UtopiahGHML | GoogleTechTalk about Ajax Push, Comet, Reverse Ajax, and HTTP streaming : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLycb-Vyz8Q | 18:35 |
| kanzure | Someday I will be punished for my sin of using AJAX. | 18:36 |
| kanzure_ | http://www-c.inria.fr/gamma/download/download.php various 3D meshes | 21:38 |
| kanzure | Hey cis-action. | 21:58 |
| fenn | wow that's a lot of models | 22:01 |
| fenn | 10 SIMILAR SHAPES FIND BY VOXELS COMPARAISON | 22:04 |
| fenn | it seems to actually find similar models too | 22:04 |
| kanzure | Where are you seeing that? | 22:07 |
| kanzure | oh | 22:08 |
| kanzure | at the bottom of a particular model's page? | 22:08 |
| fenn | i want a screensaver of these meshes falling into a big garbage pile | 22:10 |
| kanzure | because they suck? or because it's fun to see interesting garbage? | 22:10 |
| kanzure | heh, star wars dir | 22:11 |
| fenn | because i'd much rather have functional cad models to import to smirf, but all i get are these useless meshes instead | 22:11 |
| kanzure | btw, I'm downloading and will zip probably faster than you could rip the site | 22:12 |
| kanzure | converting these into cad models isn't terribly hard, dimensioning information would have to be inferred, but there's nothing about making these functional though | 22:13 |
| fenn | hm that reminds me, need to check whether 7zip managed to trim off 5MB from that 4.705GB file | 22:13 |
| fenn | no i mean they need to have proper kinematics and material info | 22:14 |
| kanzure | kinematics => motions/joints, yes? | 22:14 |
| fenn | so i.e. you could ride the bicycle | 22:14 |
| kanzure | that's what I mean too | 22:14 |
| fenn | yes | 22:14 |
| fenn | oh well i guess i'll have to settle for a magic dinosaur with a saddle | 22:15 |
| fenn | but that still needs kinematics added to it | 22:15 |
| kanzure | why is my life condemned to reconstructing and repairing terrible datasets? | 22:15 |
| fenn | btw how are you ripping the site? i havent found any downloads yet | 22:18 |
| kanzure | raw rip, because I'm too lazy to do it properly | 22:18 |
| kanzure | there's tar files that they link to | 22:18 |
| kanzure_ | http://www-c.inria.fr/gamma/download/affichage.php?dir=STAR_WAR&name=Corvette&last_page=18 | 22:18 |
| kanzure | on the right of the image, for instance | 22:19 |
| fenn | why do star wars ships suck so much | 22:19 |
| kanzure | because when they were designed they were working on a shoestring bduget? "alright, we have four plates of plastic. let's make a ship." | 22:20 |
| fenn | so ALL.*.tar will get you everything right? :P | 22:21 |
| kanzure | I wonder why I'm downloading the whole site | 22:21 |
| kanzure | um. | 22:21 |
| kanzure | yay not reading | 22:21 |
| * fenn shrugs | 22:22 | |
| kanzure | I wonder what the real dir structure is | 22:22 |
| kanzure | they have counter.php hiding the dir structure. | 22:23 |
| kanzure_ | http://www-c.inria.fr/gamma/download/affichage.php?dir=STAR_WAR/../&name=E-WEB&last_page=18 | 22:23 |
| kanzure_ | never underestimate the mighty error message | 22:23 |
| kanzure_ | http://www-c.inria.fr/gamma/OBJECTS/STAR_WAR/ALL.3ds.tar 94 MB. hrm. | 22:24 |
| fenn | i wonder if there's warez of geocommunicator.gov data sets | 22:24 |
| fenn | surely there's a better way to view it than some java web app at least | 22:25 |
| kanzure | http://heybryan.org/books/Manufacturing/3D_models/dir_list.txt taken via Opera's link-list, plus copy+paste + regexp search/replace | 22:28 |
| kanzure | for the geocommunicator.gov stuff I was thinking there should be some GTK-style map client | 22:36 |
| kanzure | and then hoping that the "National Geo info service" (or whatever it's called) isn't being done via images only | 22:36 |
| kanzure | and get the data sets from them, convert to formats that the client understands | 22:36 |
| kanzure | and then view maps. | 22:36 |
| kanzure | fenn: re: the meshes not being cad models. | 23:01 |
| kanzure | Back when I was doing game design, in 2002 or 2003, I came across the same problem | 23:01 |
| kanzure | I was not big into 3D modeling, but I wanted the models for my games | 23:01 |
| kanzure | so one of the big things was skeletons for the models | 23:01 |
| kanzure | which would determine ranges of possible movements | 23:01 |
| kanzure | as well as animation sequences of movements | 23:02 |
| kanzure | so one of the techniques that I recall was a way to just make up a skeleton | 23:02 |
| kanzure | given the model input. | 23:02 |
| fenn | sounds magical | 23:04 |
| fenn | i've run across this problem in 2d with engraving algorithms | 23:05 |
| kanzure | skeleton models aren't quite cad stuff I guess :-/ | 23:05 |
| fenn | no, but good enough for animals | 23:05 |
| fenn | i've been converted to eskil's vision of "kill em once" monsters | 23:06 |
| kanzure | Haven't heard of that. | 23:06 |
| fenn | like, why does the big bad dragon respawn after you kill it? it should go away forever and leave everyone in peace | 23:06 |
| fenn | and same for everything else | 23:07 |
| kanzure_ | http://charas-project.net/ | 23:07 |
| kanzure | check this out: | 23:07 |
| kanzure | erm, that came out the wrong way | 23:07 |
| kanzure | but anyway, that's kind of back to my fakemon days | 23:07 |
| kanzure | and random dungeoncrawler content generators | 23:08 |
| fenn | i sort of doubt it's even worth looking at what other games are doing | 23:08 |
| kanzure | they're doing nothing but respawning | 23:08 |
| kanzure | I haven't seen something that does otherwise | 23:09 |
| fenn | there's a very good reason for that, and it's because it takes a lot of programmer effort (money) to create each exquisitely detailed flawless monster | 23:10 |
| fenn | so they have to get the return on investment from it :) | 23:10 |
| kanzure | right, content generators tend to have that same problem | 23:10 |
| fenn | how's that? | 23:10 |
| kanzure | I just ended up following Aristotle's model of stories | 23:10 |
| kanzure | well, the stories don't tend to be convincing | 23:10 |
| fenn | who said anything about a story | 23:11 |
| kanzure | (plus I never completed the entire thing, but you could get a sense from the raw output of the sentence structures that it wouldn't be coherent) | 23:11 |
| kanzure | it's content | 23:11 |
| fenn | i'm talking about information flow, stuff happening in a simulator | 23:11 |
| kanzure | whether it's pixels or text I don't see the difference | 23:11 |
| kanzure | hm? | 23:11 |
| fenn | like, peasant gets attacked by dragon and runs whining to the knights | 23:12 |
| fenn | or rather, runs around randomly until she sees a knight | 23:12 |
| fenn | the whole "quest for the holy grail" thing gets kinda boring after a while anyway | 23:12 |
| kanzure | quest generators usually follow a template like that. | 23:13 |
| * kanzure fetches a link | 23:13 | |
| kanzure_ | http://www.roguelikedevelopment.org/ | 23:13 |
| kanzure_ | http://roguebasin.roguelikedevelopment.org/index.php?title=Articles | 23:13 |
| kanzure_ | hrm, not the second link | 23:13 |
| kanzure_ | although it does have a lot of content | 23:14 |
| kanzure_ | http://roguebasin.roguelikedevelopment.org/index.php?title=Dungeon_builder_written_in_Python | 23:14 |
| kanzure | in Ender's Game, the game that Ender plays (not the one related to the title) is an 'endless game' that keeps him occupied and educated, constantly generating new levels | 23:15 |
| fenn | hmm maybe i should try to get terry hancock on board with this | 23:18 |
| fenn | he was working on some kind of story generator i think (and also free cad social systems) | 23:18 |
| kanzure | so what I had with my story generator was everything down to sentence generators | 23:19 |
| kanzure | and ideally I was hoping to have it be like interactive fiction | 23:19 |
| kanzure | the sentences that were generated were just experimental, and not related to anything within the game engine | 23:19 |
| fenn | the problem with story generators is you have to win the loebner prize first :) | 23:19 |
| fenn | (turing test) | 23:20 |
| kanzure | from what I hear about erotic fiction, not true | 23:20 |
| kanzure | hm | 23:21 |
| fenn | yeah but who reads erotic fiction all day | 23:21 |
| kanzure | many stories in video games aren't that great either | 23:21 |
| kanzure | in fact, most stories suck | 23:21 |
| fenn | they dont read like spamvertisements though | 23:21 |
| fenn | i cant believe in 2008 we still havent cracked the chatbot problem | 23:22 |
| kanzure | how did we get to stories? generating monsters is slightly easier. | 23:22 |
| kanzure | me tried his hand at making chatbots before | 23:22 |
| kanzure | I think it's something that everyone does though | 23:23 |
| fenn | ya | 23:23 |
| kanzure | one of those phases | 23:23 |
| * fenn spent way too much time playing with megaHAL | 23:23 | |
| kanzure | my stuff was from a community at wiredbots (doesn't really exist any more), which was some stuff with perl and regexps | 23:23 |
| kanzure | and response databases. I don't know what I was thinking. | 23:23 |
| fenn | lame | 23:24 |
| kanzure | wasn't even markov bots, so it wasn't fun like that | 23:24 |
| kanzure | yeah | 23:24 |
| fenn | i want something with at least some potential for growth | 23:24 |
| fenn | otherwise why even talk to it | 23:24 |
| fenn | i already know it's not a person | 23:24 |
| kanzure | I have some logs from 2005 of me talking with myself, but it was boring. | 23:25 |
| fenn | "Talking with complete sentences there and also too talking in a way that ordinary Americans can't really do there, I think needing to do that isn't tapping into what Americans are needing also, you betcha" governor palin responded in an article about Obama's use of complete sentences | 23:27 |
| kanzure | That's painful. | 23:30 |
| bkero | I like complete sentences. they make me feel like I'm speaking a specified language. | 23:32 |
| fenn | ah the sweet sense of false security | 23:33 |
| kanzure | "I like complete sentences. They make me feel like I'm actually receiving information." | 23:33 |
| kanzure_ | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iH0pJgEy6DU inventory sorting for pre-packaging | 23:59 |
| kanzure_ | it's an ad though | 23:59 |
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