| --- Day changed Tue Dec 16 2008 | ||
| gene | Kanzure whichh geonavigator | 03:36 |
|---|---|---|
| kanzure | the one by the government | 03:36 |
| gene | link? | 03:38 |
| gene | so I found a cache of ultracapacitors, what would you do with them? | 04:02 |
| fenn | well at least i'm 2 hours early, but wtf is MIT using PST? | 05:36 |
| fenn | if anyone wants to read some forced verbiage: http://fennetic.net/pub/irc/mit-grad-app.html | 05:37 |
| fenn | skip down to "statement of objectives" unless you enjoy stalking me | 05:37 |
| fenn | gene: what capacity/voltage/ESR | 05:38 |
| gene | hell if I know | 05:38 |
| fenn | well what do they look like | 05:38 |
| gene | they are cylindrical | 05:39 |
| fenn | how big | 05:39 |
| gene | short | 05:39 |
| fenn | gimme a fucking dimensional unit you ass hole | 05:39 |
| fenn | or maybe you could go work at ADL :) | 05:39 |
| gene | I estimate they are about a farad | 05:39 |
| gene | about 1 centimeter tall | 05:40 |
| fenn | ok so probably 5V computer battery replacement | 05:40 |
| gene | yeah that sounds about it | 05:40 |
| fenn | um.. make solar powered blinkies? | 05:40 |
| gene | heh | 05:40 |
| gene | good idea | 05:40 |
| gene | got me a whole bunch of minisolar panels just lieing around | 05:41 |
| kanzure | 1982? no fair, you're cheating. | 05:49 |
| kanzure | my mother wants to come by tomorrow and clean the dorm room. :/ | 05:52 |
| fenn | i was born too soon | 05:59 |
| fenn | have to put up with this stone age crap | 05:59 |
| fenn | internal combustion engines? houses made of wood? | 05:59 |
| kanzure | from my perspective I was born too late though, it would have been better to have been born in the 80s | 05:59 |
| fenn | why the 80's? | 05:59 |
| kanzure | everything leads back to the 80s for some reason | 06:00 |
| fenn | i disagree | 06:00 |
| kanzure | better music, good Star Wars, | 06:00 |
| fenn | everything leads back to 1969 | 06:00 |
| kanzure | well that too :) | 06:00 |
| kanzure | anywho, I'm really liking brlcad. | 06:01 |
| fenn | because it has a command line? :) | 06:01 |
| kanzure | yeah :) | 06:01 |
| gene | so I can't find geonavigator | 06:01 |
| kanzure | but I also know that this is just like the original cad systems | 06:01 |
| kanzure | gene: I also said try geocommunicator | 06:01 |
| kanzure | gene: as a backup, search for me + geocommunicator / geonavigator | 06:02 |
| fenn | "original cad systems" being what, APT? | 06:02 |
| fenn | sketchpad? | 06:02 |
| kanzure | fenn: the downside is that I can't do rapid sketching of shapes. there's a shape editor mode, where I can do 2D sketches with segments and vertices, but you have to go back and click the buttons each time you place a vertex, etc. | 06:02 |
| kanzure | not fun. | 06:02 |
| fenn | ew | 06:03 |
| fenn | can import dxf outlines though right? | 06:03 |
| kanzure | it was my understanding that autocad from the 80s was a command line system essetnially | 06:03 |
| kanzure | yes, there's dxf integration | 06:03 |
| fenn | so complain about qcad instead :) | 06:03 |
| kanzure | huh? | 06:03 |
| fenn | free dxf cad program for linux | 06:03 |
| fenn | nice snap-to and numerical specification of geometry | 06:04 |
| kanzure | well there we go then. | 06:04 |
| fenn | and for everything else, there's inkscape | 06:04 |
| kanzure | isn't inkspace just an alternative to blender? | 06:04 |
| fenn | no, it's a 2d SVG editor | 06:04 |
| kanzure | well then. | 06:05 |
| fenn | and totally awesome btw | 06:05 |
| fenn | http://fennetic.net/sketches/emc-splash/fanuc-illust.png | 06:06 |
| gene | oh qcad is awesome | 06:06 |
| fenn | http://fennetic.net/sketches/emc-splash/m5i20.png | 06:06 |
| fenn | http://fennetic.net/sketches/emc-splash/mazak.png | 06:06 |
| gene | made some paper models with it | 06:06 |
| kanzure | brlcad is well-scripted. can be done from bash, with tcl, or in the command window, so I'm thinking it might be nice to include a hook in in the skdb packaging. | 06:06 |
| kanzure | especially since .g is nice and modular. | 06:06 |
| gene | btw anyone know of anyway to make solidworks files to usable files | 06:07 |
| kanzure | go to SAVE AS | 06:07 |
| gene | no wonder the military uses it | 06:07 |
| fenn | i like this one, but nobody else seems to: http://fennetic.net/sketches/emc-splash/emc-lathe-chips.svg | 06:07 |
| * kanzure will check the images later. too lazy to move out of chair or something | 06:07 | |
| gene | lolz fenn | 06:08 |
| fenn | myeh.. /me hunts up some food or something | 06:08 |
| gene | on the last one | 06:08 |
| fenn | gene: see how the chips say "emc" | 06:08 |
| gene | no | 06:08 |
| gene | I do now | 06:08 |
| gene | hmmmm... I still need some damn tiny, damn accurate linear actuators | 06:08 |
| fenn | pester phreedom to hurry up on his piezo thingy | 06:09 |
| gene | I need more displacement that a piezo though | 06:11 |
| fenn | it's an inchworm so it should move a few cm i think | 06:11 |
| gene | but a piezo might be useful for another project | 06:11 |
| gene | I want to do nuclear transfer | 06:12 |
| Phreedom | right, piezos are very underestimated | 06:12 |
| gene | transfer nuclear material | 06:12 |
| Phreedom | and there are no distance limitations | 06:12 |
| gene | there are size limitations though... | 06:13 |
| fenn | Phreedom: any idea how fast it moves? | 06:13 |
| gene | very fast fenn | 06:13 |
| fenn | dimensional units please! | 06:13 |
| Phreedom | gene: I'm not talking about using direct piezo expansion/contraction | 06:13 |
| fenn | you are thinking acceleration anyway | 06:14 |
| gene | I know | 06:14 |
| Phreedom | gene: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piezoelectric_motor | 06:14 |
| gene | you're talking about inchworm | 06:14 |
| Phreedom | gene: ok. not really. there are many different designs | 06:15 |
| Phreedom | but the idea is more or less the same | 06:15 |
| gene | I know what you mean | 06:15 |
| Phreedom | fenn: speeds depend on load, how much wear you can tolerate and lots of other stuff | 06:15 |
| gene | where do you get the elements? | 06:15 |
| Phreedom | fenn: 0,1-0,4m/s is realistic | 06:15 |
| fenn | that's pretty fast | 06:16 |
| Phreedom | gene: can be made at home :) or if you need a small number, you can buy | 06:16 |
| fenn | 10cm/s right? | 06:16 |
| gene | how do you make them at home? | 06:16 |
| Phreedom | fenn: but for a motor that lasts, exerts a significant force, I'll be closer to 0,1m/s | 06:17 |
| Phreedom | fenn: yes | 06:17 |
| fenn | how large is it? | 06:17 |
| fenn | and what is the power supply like? | 06:17 |
| fenn | or driver or whatever you call it | 06:17 |
| Phreedom | gene: the same way they make it at a fab: you need PZT powder(made by mill or hydrothermal), press(carjack will do) and a furnace | 06:17 |
| gene | heh carjacj | 06:18 |
| gene | *carjack | 06:18 |
| fenn | jack = hydraulic cylinder, what's funny about that? | 06:18 |
| Phreedom | fenn: 50-100g of PZT(density:7.6-7.8), some metal | 06:18 |
| Phreedom | gene: carjack is poor man's press | 06:18 |
| Phreedom | they're really cheap | 06:18 |
| fenn | Phreedom: no i mean the dimensions of the system | 06:19 |
| gene | I would have never though | 06:19 |
| gene | t | 06:19 |
| fenn | like, a stepper motor is about 40mm cube | 06:19 |
| Phreedom | fenn: lol | 06:19 |
| gene | I have a ball mill under my sink, I just need a car jack and a furnace | 06:19 |
| Phreedom | fenn: 3-5cm diameter couple cm height tube | 06:20 |
| fenn | ok | 06:20 |
| fenn | how much power to make it move? | 06:20 |
| Phreedom | fenn: oh and drivers, these are very low power so several low-power high-voltage half-bridges + MCU will do | 06:21 |
| Phreedom | fenn: 10-15 watts per motor will be sufficient | 06:21 |
| Phreedom | fenn: efficiency is likely to be 50%+ so input power will be 20-30 watts/motor | 06:22 |
| fenn | how high voltage? is this mosfet territory? | 06:22 |
| Phreedom | fenn: 1000V is mosfet territory too ;) | 06:22 |
| fenn | well, they make them, but they suck | 06:22 |
| Phreedom | fenn: you can use FETs or Bipolar, whatever is cheaper | 06:22 |
| fenn | for high voltage IGBT is best i think | 06:23 |
| fenn | unless you need stupid quick turn on times | 06:23 |
| Phreedom | fenn: as I said I probably need low price the most ;) | 06:23 |
| Phreedom | everything else is a bonus | 06:23 |
| fenn | hmm ok i understand | 06:24 |
| Phreedom | I mean the performance of the driver isn't very critical at these power levels | 06:24 |
| fenn | my only search into mosfet/igbt was for ~300V electric car controller | 06:24 |
| Phreedom | and a 15w loaded motor moving at 0,1 m/s = 150N of force, two motors per axis... this is way too powerful for a desktop machine :) | 06:25 |
| fenn | if it works at all... | 06:26 |
| Phreedom | right:) | 06:26 |
| fenn | do you think machined micro-grooves as sort of ratchet teeth might help? | 06:26 |
| Phreedom | fenn: for what? | 06:27 |
| fenn | reducing wear | 06:27 |
| Phreedom | fenn: not sure. time will tell | 06:27 |
| fenn | btw you have seen the "squiggle" motor right? | 06:28 |
| Phreedom | fenn: actually I'm betting on a different approach to wear. The idea is to have a hard, eg chrome coating, which can be easily recoated as a service routine. So if it doesn't have to happen way too often, it's a good approach to the problem | 06:29 |
| Phreedom | quality commercial motors guarantee several thousand hours of operation | 06:29 |
| Phreedom | which means this might be a good approach after all | 06:30 |
| Phreedom | fenn: no. googling | 06:30 |
| Phreedom | fenn: looks nice | 06:31 |
| Phreedom | fenn: thre are tons of new designs pooping up everywhere right now | 06:31 |
| Phreedom | fenn: all I can say is that piezos are hot | 06:31 |
| Phreedom | :) | 06:31 |
| Phreedom | fenn: the trouble of all these mini and micro piezo designs is wear. they aren't very optimized in this regard due to having other design goals | 06:35 |
| Phreedom | fenn: http://www.piezo-motor.net/ | 06:41 |
| Phreedom | fenn: http://www.piezo.lt/ does it reming you of anything? ;) | 06:48 |
| gene | WOW that is amazing | 06:49 |
| Phreedom | piezo motor stuff isn't very new... but it's been very obscure | 06:50 |
| gene | you might have fun with our labs sonicator | 06:50 |
| gene | a high power ultrasonic sound source | 06:50 |
| Phreedom | gene: I'm too far away to enjoy it ;) | 06:53 |
| gene | heh | 06:53 |
| gene | it does show signs of damage though | 06:54 |
| gene | biologists apparently aren't very keen on treating their equipment well | 06:54 |
| fenn_ | wah | 07:26 |
| -!- fenn_ is now known as fenn | 07:26 | |
| Phreedom | a piece of good enginering: http://www.break.com/index/failed-chinese-crash-test.html | 07:31 |
| gene | heh | 07:36 |
| gene | that's a classic | 07:36 |
| willPow3r | http://goats.com/store/elephants.html | 10:19 |
| kanzure_ | Hello. | 19:12 |
| kanzure_ | http://www.overcomingbias.com/2008/12/not-taking-over.html <- Evidence that he is, in fact, trying to take over the world. | 19:29 |
| kanzure_ | "NOT TAKING OVER THE WORLD" <- in other words, yes he is | 19:29 |
| kanzure_ | I think the situation in which this "unlimited power" that he speaks of, will arise in a particular situation and context, in which technicalities not so much "limit" the available actions but rather restrain (but also enable/empower) types of architectures that aren't so black and white. I'm not going to argue this though. | 19:30 |
| kanzure_ | basically he's asking the "what to do" question .. | 19:31 |
| kanzure_ | http://www.overcomingbias.com/2008/12/not-taking-over.html#comment-142855078 | 19:32 |
| kanzure_ | Phreedom: nepomuk just hit slashdot. | 19:45 |
| gene | what's so bad about taking over the world? | 19:51 |
| kanzure_ | "who polices the police" | 19:53 |
| kanzure_ | (ad infinitum) | 19:53 |
| gene | the people | 19:53 |
| gene | that's who | 19:53 |
| kanzure_ | so why are people being policed? | 19:53 |
| kanzure_ | and who polices the policers? | 19:54 |
| bkero | We did | 19:54 |
| gene | system crash | 19:54 |
| bkero | Nobody does now | 19:54 |
| gene | I'm all for AI government | 19:55 |
| kanzure_ | why? | 19:55 |
| gene | because humans are dumb | 19:55 |
| gene | at least enhanced human | 19:55 |
| kanzure_ | so what if they are dumb? Are you going to force everybody to upgrade, too? | 19:56 |
| gene | nah | 19:56 |
| kanzure_ | Anyway, I don't know why you would want to install a dictator when other options exist - like ensuring you're using a good redundancy strategy instead of putting all of your eggs in one basket. | 19:57 |
| gene | good idea | 20:00 |
| bkero | http://www.coda.cs.cmu.edu/ljpaper/lj.html hawt hawt hawt | 20:02 |
| Phreedom | kanzure_: thanks | 20:04 |
| kanzure_ | I need a super-fast introduction to Tcl. Maybe I should go read some code results from koders.com or Google codesearch? | 20:40 |
| bkero | TCL is obsolete crap :/ | 20:40 |
| gene | and I need a superaccurate linear actuator | 20:40 |
| gene | go figure | 20:40 |
| kanzure_ | bkero: No argument there, but the interpreter is Tcl. | 20:41 |
| kanzure_ | http://www.google.com/codesearch?as_q=&btnG=Search+Code&hl=en&as_lang=tcl&as_license_restrict=i&as_license=&as_package=&as_filename=&as_case= | 20:41 |
| kanzure_ | google finds 198k files. | 20:41 |
| kanzure_ | not bad. | 20:41 |
| bkero | kanzure_: Fucking army using old crap :( | 20:41 |
| kanzure_ | my alternative is to use bash scripting, but from what I can tell I can't execute the 'oed' command because I need to 'draw' an object first (wtf) | 20:42 |
| kanzure_ | Okay, nevermind. It works now. | 20:44 |
| kanzure_ | See? No tcl. | 20:44 |
| gene | the arny uses old crap | 20:44 |
| gene | interesting | 20:45 |
| kanzure_ | I did find it nice how the brlcad configure script warned me about my noncompliance with IEEE 764. | 20:55 |
| bkero | wtf is ieee 764? | 21:05 |
| kanzure_ | floating point multiplication :p | 21:11 |
| fenn | bkero: does coda do versioning and branching? or is it just focused on "magically" merging everything from everyone | 21:42 |
| bkero | fenn: It's just a filesystem. You want a revision control system. Use git. | 21:47 |
| bkero | It uses a transaction-based system. I'm not sure how it handles merging. | 21:48 |
| fenn | i want a versioning file system dammit | 21:48 |
| bkero | There are tons | 21:49 |
| bkero | Use fuse | 21:49 |
| fenn | fuse is just an abstraction layer | 21:49 |
| bkero | There are tons written in fuse | 21:49 |
| fenn | ok. any recommendations? | 21:49 |
| bkero | I know. I wrote a FUSE filesystem for work last week. | 21:49 |
| bkero | Nope, haven't used any. They're listed as examples on FUSE's site. | 21:50 |
| fenn | hey i was talking about this a couple weeks ago: "hierfs - a simple way of managing a vast amount of data over multiple CD-R media by simulating all files on the CDs as if they were online on the harddisk." | 21:59 |
| fenn | so, i didnt see a single versioning filesystem on this page: http://apps.sourceforge.net/mediawiki/fuse/index.php?title=FileSystems | 22:02 |
| fenn | i did find one on google; "copyfs" | 22:02 |
| kanzure_ | gene: http://heybryan.org/bioreactor/membraneless_filtration/2008-12-16_spiral_generator_works.png | 22:07 |
| gene | it's beautiful | 22:08 |
| kanzure_ | and somewhat wrong | 22:08 |
| gene | but why's it made of blocks | 22:08 |
| gene | oh | 22:08 |
| kanzure_ | why are my cross-sections lacking left-hand boundary | 22:08 |
| gene | brlcad | 22:08 |
| gene | right? | 22:08 |
| kanzure_ | yes, but the blockyness is just because I'm doing it at a low resolution (1000 cross sections) | 22:08 |
| kanzure_ | just need to do a bit of touchup on the cross section stuff (I was doing it blind, so, I'll fix that) | 22:09 |
| kanzure_ | and then implement (1) narrowing/widening of the cross sections, and (2) a delta z. | 22:09 |
| fenn | blocks? | 22:10 |
| kanzure_ | well, it's supposed to be a rectangle with a rectangle inside of it and subtracted from it | 22:10 |
| kanzure_ | so that it would be a window frame | 22:10 |
| fenn | can't you just import a dxf outline? | 22:10 |
| gene | wait what are you using brl cad? | 22:10 |
| fenn | or is that not cool enuf | 22:10 |
| kanzure_ | fenn: an outline of what? | 22:11 |
| fenn | the spiral | 22:11 |
| kanzure_ | I'd like a generator :/ | 22:11 |
| fenn | what's a generator? | 22:11 |
| kanzure_ | ./spiral --make-me-a-spiral | 22:11 |
| kanzure_ | gene: yes, I'm using brlcad | 22:11 |
| kanzure_ | except without using it | 22:11 |
| kanzure_ | i.e., this is scripted | 22:11 |
| fenn | abusing it, is more likely | 22:12 |
| kanzure_ | http://heybryan.org/bioreactor/membraneless_filtration/spiral_generator.pl | 22:12 |
| kanzure_ | yes. tjos os anisove | 22:12 |
| kanzure_ | *this is abusive | 22:12 |
| kanzure_ | I'm calling mged on every cross section, which is stupid because it causes a thousand hdd r/w cycles | 22:12 |
| kanzure_ | but apparently when I saved all of the commands to be done at once, something blew up (I'll try it again in a moment) | 22:12 |
| kanzure_ | http://heybryan.org/bioreactor/membraneless_filtration/spiral.g | 22:13 |
| kanzure_ | http://heybryan.org/bioreactor/membraneless_filtration/spiral.g.stl (warning: 5 MB) | 22:13 |
| kanzure_ | o epmfet og oy od rsu yp tesf yrcy ejrm oy od yu[rf gtp, pmr ;omr pbrt gtp, ejrtr oy od idis;;u ,rsmy yp nr | 22:15 |
| kanzure_ | heh, nevermind | 22:15 |
| fenn | g-stl converts from .g to .stl right? | 22:15 |
| gene | Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn | 22:16 |
| kanzure_ | fenn: yep | 22:17 |
| kanzure_ | fenn: g-<tab> is an interesting list. | 22:17 |
| kanzure_ | gene: I read it outloud and a beast appeared. is this bad? | 22:18 |
| gene | YES! | 22:18 |
| gene | how much firepower do you have within five feet! | 22:19 |
| kanzure_ | 2.6 GHz | 22:19 |
| gene | SHOOT IT! | 22:19 |
| gene | DON"T TYPE SHOOT | 22:19 |
| fenn | the power of euclidean geometry compels you! | 22:20 |
| kanzure_ | "i'll take your square root any day." | 22:20 |
| gene | QUICK generate euclidean geometry in BRL cad | 22:21 |
| kanzure_ | gene: be sure to read the .pl file. it's crap, but at least so that you know what's going on. | 22:21 |
| gene | you know I probably should read that cthulu book | 22:22 |
| fenn | nah it's lame | 22:23 |
| kanzure_ | okay | 22:23 |
| kanzure_ | well, here's why it looks so bad | 22:23 |
| kanzure_ | apparently I was doing the wrong orientation | 22:23 |
| kanzure_ | the top view is supposed to be the front view. | 22:24 |
| gene | ok | 22:24 |
| * kanzure_ fixes. | 22:24 | |
| kanzure_ | blah, qorot doesn't like zerovalue vectors. | 22:27 |
| gene | I don't like zerovalue vectors | 22:28 |
| gene | they seem pointless to me | 22:31 |
| kanzure_ | that's it mister, you either eat all of your vector-o's or no dinner. | 22:34 |
| kanzure_ | http://heybryan.org/bioreactor/membraneless_filtration/2008-12-16_spiral_generator_2.png | 23:57 |
| kanzure_ | so I think I'm not considering something | 23:57 |
| kanzure_ | as you get to the outer rings of the spiral, the distance between the cross-sections is increasing | 23:57 |
| kanzure_ | which is bad. | 23:57 |
| kanzure_ | Anyway, a nice problem to solve. | 23:58 |
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