| --- Day changed Thu Dec 18 2008 | ||
| gene | cool | 00:05 |
|---|---|---|
| gene | dna chips | 00:05 |
| kanzure_ | Phreedom: because there's only four. | 00:28 |
| kanzure_ | Everything easy to do has a bazillion, like text editors | 00:28 |
| Phreedom | kanzure_: much more than four, but most aren't up-to-date ;) | 00:28 |
| Phreedom | nobody needs a layout engine that's behind the current norm | 00:29 |
| fenn | i do | 00:32 |
| fenn | well, dillo is the only one that actually goes fast enough for me | 00:32 |
| fenn | (and it doesnt do CSS) | 00:32 |
| kanzure_ | http://turnitin.com/static/products.html "Over 70 million student papers have been submitted." <- ack, what a waste of time. | 00:46 |
| kanzure_ | one day I might break down and just hack together opera and firefox and be done with it | 00:47 |
| kanzure_ | while reverse compilers aren't going to work well for me, I seem to recall there being a few tricks. | 00:48 |
| kanzure_ | " MEL is one of seven NIST Laboratories, and | 01:15 |
| kanzure_ | its mission includes the satisfaction of the measurement and standards needs of | 01:15 |
| kanzure_ | U.S. manufacturers. | 01:15 |
| kanzure_ | Wait, what? They work *for* companies? | 01:15 |
| kanzure_ | " | 01:15 |
| fenn | yes, they do calibration and testing | 01:16 |
| kanzure_ | http://www1.eere.energy.gov/industry/bestpractices/ is interesting, a portal page for "industrial plant personnel" and DOE stuff. | 01:19 |
| fenn | since they're produced by a US govt agency, shouldnt the source be available as public domain? | 01:23 |
| kanzure_ | it would be interesting to argue this point: "if documents are only available to certainly named Engineers in Companies, which are companies owned by Foreign Powers That Be, then you're effectively making sure that U.S. citizens do not have access to that information -- specialization for citizens that are employed by foreign companies doesn't count in the total count." | 01:25 |
| fenn | by "should" i mean "legally, under the current system" | 01:28 |
| fenn | for example this is why we have emc2 | 01:28 |
| fenn | er, EMC1 | 01:28 |
| kanzure_ | http://gnuwave.org/drupal/openmis "An extensible, easy-to-use, well-documented manufacturing inventory system aimed at small to medium-sized businesses." | 01:30 |
| kanzure_ | https://launchpad.net/openmis | 01:30 |
| kanzure_ | oops, it's dead | 01:31 |
| kanzure_ | nevermind | 01:31 |
| fenn | 12/09/08 isnt that long ago | 01:33 |
| fenn | it's just fledgeling still | 01:33 |
| kanzure_ | you see eli.html ? | 01:45 |
| fenn | no | 01:46 |
| kanzure_ | http://heybryan.org/eli.html | 01:46 |
| fenn | why am i reading this? | 01:47 |
| fenn | have i mentioned how much i love linux lately? | 01:51 |
| bkero | <3 linux | 01:51 |
| kanzure_ | fenn: you're reading it because I failed to figure out how to properly plot pipes in brlcad today, so that's about all that I've been able to dig up | 01:52 |
| kanzure_ | and what's with the new love affair in linux? | 01:53 |
| fenn | i've been using an old mac powerbook; using utter crap software helps you value what you have | 01:54 |
| fenn | oh and i just did "eject /mnt" and it Just Worked(tm) | 01:54 |
| kanzure_ | http://www.census.gov/mcd/asmhome.html Annual Survey of Manufactures | 02:46 |
| kanzure_ | neat, they have statistics organized by NAICS' classification system | 02:47 |
| kanzure_ | that sounds incredibly unlikely.. | 02:47 |
| kanzure_ | http://www.ciras.iastate.edu/publications/CIRASNews/fall97/network.html "Flexible manufacturing networks" - firms pooling resources together. hrm. | 02:51 |
| kanzure_ | "by 1991 there were over 50 documented networks in various stages of operation" | 02:52 |
| kanzure_ | hm, clicking around on macrae's blue book (an industry directory), I think I'm starting to get the picture | 02:56 |
| kanzure_ | these RFQ's, RFC's, etc., are mostly done by email it seems | 02:56 |
| kanzure_ | or I guess sometimes done through crappy web interfaces | 02:56 |
| kanzure_ | blah, I should stop before I get started. /me goes away | 02:56 |
| fenn | good god it's Communism! | 02:58 |
| gene | COMMUNISM! | 03:00 |
| gene | ??? | 03:00 |
| fenn | festering in the heart of America | 03:01 |
| fenn | (encouraged by those damned Leftist Universities of course) | 03:02 |
| fenn | Iowa State Communist Industrial Research and Service | 03:02 |
| fenn | ok that's enough of that | 03:03 |
| * splicer wonders if china would fund defunct domestic auto industry | 03:05 | |
| gene | well there was that 100 billion dollar bailout fenn that's like way more communist | 03:42 |
| gene | do you know how many giant robots you could build with a 100 million | 03:42 |
| gene | ahem a 100 billion | 03:43 |
| Phreedom | gene: I thought it was several 100 billion? | 03:45 |
| gene_ | oh yeah | 03:53 |
| gene_ | you can still buy a lot of stuff with 100 billion though | 03:53 |
| gene_ | you can buy more giant robots than there are aircraft carriers | 03:54 |
| Phreedom | gene_: 100 billion sounds like enough to completely change the world :) | 04:03 |
| gene_ | heh | 04:03 |
| Phreedom | not by feeding the hungry, but by developing tools which would allow smarter of them to fix their own problems | 04:03 |
| gene_ | you could buy a lot of repraps for that amount | 04:03 |
| Phreedom | repraps don't grow potatos ;) | 04:04 |
| Phreedom | not yet | 04:04 |
| gene_ | you could buy 10 giant diverging lenses 1000 kilometers in diameter capable of stopping global warming ten times over | 04:04 |
| Phreedom | or better yet build more concentrated solar power stations | 04:05 |
| gene_ | yeah solar power is much better | 04:06 |
| Phreedom | plenty of useful stuff to do. The question is where do I apply for a 100bn grant? | 04:27 |
| procto | Phreedom: you should join #phreadom :> | 04:37 |
| fenn | yes, build them in space | 04:44 |
| kanzure_ | weird, Nathan seriously doesn't understand Eric's posts to om | 04:51 |
| kanzure_ | ack.. what's with all of the verbose crap | 04:54 |
| fenn | " for those who may think I'm serious, I'm not. I'm only being honest" | 04:55 |
| fenn | so, er... what does that mean? | 04:56 |
| fenn | i think he hasn't learned that sarcasm clogs the tubes | 04:58 |
| kanzure_ | read the next email he sent in that thread | 04:58 |
| kanzure_ | I'm thinking "holy shit what I have gotten myself into" .. what's with this overly verbose philosophical *shit* | 04:58 |
| kanzure_ | I mean, I'm into philosophy, but this is starting to become annoying | 04:59 |
| fenn | that gear handshake is really corny | 05:01 |
| kanzure_ | yeah :( | 05:01 |
| fenn | i need a threaded mail reader | 05:02 |
| kanzure_ | kmail | 05:02 |
| fenn | preferably available on BSD | 05:02 |
| fenn | over a terminal | 05:02 |
| kanzure_ | you were on a mac, you've moved to a BSD system? | 05:03 |
| kanzure_ | freeeeeeeebsd? | 05:03 |
| kanzure_ | freebsd* | 05:03 |
| kanzure_ | (keyboard has been acting up lately..) | 05:03 |
| fenn | no, my email server is freebsd | 05:03 |
| fenn | the mac was just for some old files i was archiving, they were in stupid mac formats | 05:03 |
| fenn | "citizens bought less today" | 05:06 |
| kanzure_ | paul's line? | 05:07 |
| fenn | rofl "Slaves association for future mastership" | 05:07 |
| Phreedom | procto: will I get a cookie? ;) | 05:07 |
| kanzure_ | "In last year's iGEM, a team from Freiburg created a | 05:08 |
| kanzure_ | breadboard using DNA Origami " | 05:08 |
| kanzure_ | http://2008.igem.org/DNA-Origami | 05:08 |
| kanzure_ | how's that a breadboard. hrm.. | 05:08 |
| fenn | would be interesting to do a bitmap image with the various fluorescent proteins | 05:13 |
| kanzure_ | what's the xy coords? based off of the dna origami foldingness? | 05:14 |
| kanzure_ | I think Paul Rothemund was doing a smiley face as one type of image, so I guess if you can do a b&w->dna generator | 05:15 |
| kanzure_ | Paul's smiley got on the cover of a few magazines. | 05:15 |
| fenn | no i mean the tiles would interlock such that the only way to solve all the constraints is a picture | 05:15 |
| kanzure_ | (IIRC) | 05:15 |
| fenn | this could be done with some kind of stacked wavelet decomposition | 05:15 |
| fenn | each layer of tiles corresponding to a wavelet | 05:15 |
| fenn | i dont know how to say that in english | 05:16 |
| fenn | it's sorta like the binary counter but with 2d patches instead of just rows | 05:17 |
| kanzure_ | I'll have to look up wavelet decomposition. but I'm thinking 'unfolding' of an image, 'unraveling'. | 05:17 |
| kanzure_ | hm. | 05:17 |
| fenn | http://www.toolsmiths.com/images/cwtgrns.gif | 05:18 |
| fenn | do you have a browser yet? | 05:19 |
| kanzure_ | yep, I seeeeeeeee it | 05:19 |
| kanzure_ | blah, keyboard. | 05:19 |
| gene_ | cool idea | 05:19 |
| fenn | yeah but is it feasible? | 05:20 |
| gene_ | now if we only had some biobricks and enzymes | 05:20 |
| gene_ | I don't know | 05:20 |
| fenn | also there's the minor problem of DNA tiles being a zillion times smaller than visible wavelengths | 05:20 |
| gene_ | but I heard that biochemistry is like electronics without the electricity | 05:20 |
| kanzure_ | well the ellingtonlab that I was at was doing bacteria that would display a black and white photo | 05:20 |
| kanzure_ | not quite the same thing as DNA, but at least you could see it visibly | 05:20 |
| gene_ | so add a different photoreceptor | 05:21 |
| gene_ | for different colors | 05:21 |
| kanzure_ | what do you mean "so" | 05:21 |
| fenn | you could add a gold atom and do electron micrography | 05:21 |
| kanzure_ | you're assuming I'm trying ttto add colors? | 05:21 |
| kanzure_ | or trying to do anything at all or something? | 05:21 |
| gene_ | no | 05:22 |
| gene_ | I just suggested a way of adding flourescent black light colors to biopictures | 05:23 |
| fenn | i'm thinking "that's cute, but what's it good for" | 05:23 |
| gene_ | to make it look like some sort of blacklight poster | 05:23 |
| fenn | and it's good for assembling arrays of other stuff | 05:23 |
| gene_ | hold one sec | 05:23 |
| gene_ | my browser has accumulated errors and I need to purge | 05:23 |
| kanzure_ | gee, it's as if he's still using firefox | 05:24 |
| kanzure_ | oh wait. | 05:24 |
| fenn | that's what they're trying to do after all: "the antigens NIP and fluoresceine can as well be fused to these oligos" | 05:24 |
| gene | woo update | 05:25 |
| kanzure_ | gene, did you ever poooooooost that hand held factory thingy to the om list? | 05:27 |
| kanzure_ | it's after finals, so. | 05:27 |
| gene | OH SHIT NO | 05:27 |
| kanzure_ | sarcasm? | 05:27 |
| gene | btw I need some sun | 05:28 |
| kanzure_ | the company? | 05:28 |
| gene | no sunlight | 05:30 |
| gene | snow would be good too | 05:30 |
| gene | how else do you power a solar powered balloon | 05:31 |
| fenn | nathan's massive political overhead reminds me of this: http://fennetic.net/milesaway/decision_making | 05:32 |
| kanzure_ | you know, with the amount of time he spent typing that crap, he could have been learning what a metal is | 05:35 |
| fenn | impossible! | 05:35 |
| gene | who do you speak of? | 05:35 |
| fenn | i only know how to complain and shit | 05:35 |
| fenn | all that other stuff is way over my head | 05:36 |
| fenn | (not that i'm saying anything bad about anyone) | 05:36 |
| gene | another guy trying to start some project related to replicators? | 05:36 |
| kanzure_ | no | 05:36 |
| kanzure_ | he just posts to om | 05:36 |
| gene | oh | 05:37 |
| kanzure_ | but for the record there is another guy trying to do replicators, i.e. Paul | 05:37 |
| gene | heh | 05:37 |
| kanzure_ | and he's also on the om list | 05:37 |
| gene | let me guess they're software people | 05:37 |
| kanzure_ | nathan isn't | 05:37 |
| kanzure_ | he's .. well I don't know what he is | 05:37 |
| gene | he's probably a dragon, avoid him at all cost | 05:38 |
| gene | s | 05:38 |
| fenn | nathan's one of those Damned Things that dont fit into categories | 05:39 |
| kanzure_ | huh, I wonder if suppliers accepting RFC's/RFQ's get lots of spam. How do they know which opportunities to investigate further and put time/resources into checking out? | 05:42 |
| kanzure_ | I mean, that has to be a pretty big deal | 05:43 |
| kanzure_ | "you claim you have *how* much demand? well sir. you have yourself a deal." | 05:43 |
| kanzure_ | phantom suppliers :p | 05:43 |
| kanzure_ | *into checking it out | 05:44 |
| kanzure_ | yay for spontaneously dropping words | 05:44 |
| gene | that's called word carpetbombing | 05:48 |
| kanzure_ | fenn: re: your om post, you know about canonizer.com and why it's crappy, right? | 06:24 |
| kanzure_ | or really re: your decision page | 06:24 |
| fenn | what does canonizer have to do with that | 06:26 |
| kanzure_ | brent's supergoal is to make some silly way of hearing everybody's opinion | 06:28 |
| kanzure_ | as a way for telling decision makers what decisions people want to make | 06:28 |
| kanzure_ | (there's so many issues with that idea that it's hard to know where to begin ..) | 06:28 |
| fenn | problem is voting doesnt work for technical decisions | 06:29 |
| fenn | and it's very easy to manipulate large numbers of people | 06:29 |
| fenn | (with enough money) | 06:29 |
| kanzure_ | also, it's difficult to express opinions in text | 06:30 |
| kanzure_ | or to do meaning mining and such .. | 06:30 |
| fenn | is it? | 06:30 |
| fenn | hmm wasnt that the point of canonizer? | 06:30 |
| kanzure_ | didn't you say it takes you forever to put something in a category | 06:30 |
| fenn | er.. maybe | 06:30 |
| fenn | i think i was whining about hierarchical bookmarking/filesystem, wishing for tags | 06:30 |
| kanzure_ | oh, I could probably also link here to Doctorow's "tagging is shit, go home kids" article | 06:30 |
| fenn | boo.. poop on doctorow then | 06:31 |
| kanzure_ | nsh agrees with me here :-) | 06:31 |
| kanzure_ | or at least once did | 06:31 |
| fenn | nsh is working on semantic infrastructure isnt he? | 06:31 |
| kanzure_ | about needing more processssual things going on here | 06:31 |
| kanzure_ | wait, what? nsh is in a bio lab | 06:31 |
| fenn | oh | 06:31 |
| fenn | well, it was someone | 06:31 |
| kanzure_ | more processes rather than just textnaming stuff | 06:31 |
| kanzure_ | or the way procto put it .. I'd rather wake up and have everyone replaced with perl scripts rather than replaced with tags | 06:32 |
| fenn | sure objects are better than data | 06:32 |
| kanzure_ | blah, objects .. | 06:32 |
| fenn | but how many people can write code? | 06:32 |
| kanzure_ | executing code is better than objects | 06:32 |
| fenn | much less code that plays well with other code | 06:32 |
| fenn | object = executable code + data | 06:33 |
| fenn | c++ has sort of butt-raped the term | 06:33 |
| kanzure_ | hm. nod. | 06:33 |
| kanzure_ | huh, Mike Harris (openvirgle mike) responded pretty fast to your clusterfuck rollcall | 06:34 |
| fenn | i still chuckle about "William Abaris" | 06:36 |
| kanzure_ | his penname? what was the joke? | 06:36 |
| kanzure_ | he explaaaaained it once, something about a hero he admired? | 06:36 |
| fenn | dunno, the funny part to me is that it's so obviously him because of numerous google-droppings | 06:37 |
| fenn | "Thanks, I think I'm still going to use it :-) What I really wanted to make sure was that no one new who Abaris was: a mythical Heperborean healer." | 06:37 |
| kanzure_ | what sucks is that everybody seems to be getting excited about doing absolutely nothing on om | 06:38 |
| kanzure_ | I feel sick. I need to push some code.. | 06:38 |
| fenn | pocket.py now has pan and zoom! wheee | 06:39 |
| kanzure_ | huh? | 06:39 |
| kanzure_ | pocket? | 06:39 |
| kanzure_ | is this in the emc .git? | 06:39 |
| fenn | in here http://fennetic.net/git/cxf2cnc.git/ | 06:39 |
| kanzure_ | erm, the cnc.git :) | 06:40 |
| fenn | it's some crap i'm working on, CAM algorithms | 06:40 |
| kanzure_ | what do you say CAM is | 06:40 |
| fenn | so people don't have to have a functioning emc2 install | 06:40 |
| kanzure_ | is this just gcode stuff, or is this also more advanced manufacturing stuffs | 06:40 |
| kanzure_ | I guess you can't do much though with manufacturing stuffs because of a lack of access | 06:40 |
| kanzure_ | so that's a stupid question. nevermind. | 06:40 |
| fenn | computer aided manufacturing, but it usually means going from a CAD geometry file to some kind of toolpath or robot movement instructions | 06:40 |
| kanzure_ | k | 06:40 |
| fenn | i dont have anything to run it on right now, but not for lack of access (?) because i'm building it? | 06:41 |
| * fenn ponders the philosophical meaning of "access" | 06:41 | |
| fenn | is anything truly unfair.. what is freedom? | 06:41 |
| kanzure_ | the meaning of access: if you call forth a script, does it execute or just sit there and spurt errors? | 06:42 |
| fenn | it generates a .nc file | 06:42 |
| fenn | you can then run that .nc on a simulated machine or a real machine | 06:43 |
| kanzure_ | the meaning of access is "get back to work" | 06:43 |
| fenn | s/access/motivation/ | 06:43 |
| kanzure_ | whywork.org ref here ? :p | 06:43 |
| fenn | jeez i can't even get any chocolate because the roads are so icy | 06:43 |
| fenn | damn planetary weather | 06:43 |
| fenn | today i was daydreaming about buying dropship.com and setting up a point to point small instant delivery service using UAV's | 06:44 |
| kanzure_ | automated or aerial? dropship, I'm guesing is aerial. | 06:45 |
| fenn | both | 06:45 |
| fenn | cost scales with distance and mass | 06:45 |
| fenn | with discounts for returned containers | 06:46 |
| kanzure_ | yep, it was mentioned on om a few months ago for a competition of sorts | 06:46 |
| kanzure_ | something about delivering milk cartons | 06:47 |
| fenn | it was? can you remember any other keywords? | 06:47 |
| kanzure_ | milk cartons aren't mentioned often. | 06:47 |
| kanzure_ | competition, prize, milk cartons, .. | 06:47 |
| kanzure_ | vehicles, robots, stuff like that | 06:47 |
| gene | automated delivery UAVs | 06:48 |
| kanzure_ | I posted in the thread, so you can probably search for bryan + milk | 06:48 |
| gene | I always wanted something like that in high school | 06:48 |
| gene | for delivering books if I forgot them | 06:49 |
| fenn | god dammit. google groups used to actually display right | 06:49 |
| kanzure_ | http://groups.google.com/group/openmanufacturing/browse_thread/thread/66c29329c67d6bfb/f93eb1261d13613f?lnk=gst&q=Bryan+milk#f93eb1261d13613f | 06:50 |
| gene | you know it would be great idea to actually build something like that | 06:50 |
| gene | trees might be a problem though | 06:50 |
| gene | and landing | 06:50 |
| gene | do you intend to airdrop groceries? | 06:50 |
| fenn | yes | 06:50 |
| gene | IE via parachutes? | 06:51 |
| fenn | there is much room for innovation | 06:51 |
| fenn | just imagine i'm writing a journal article starting with "towards a..." | 06:52 |
| gene | hmmm... you can make parachutes from HDPE sheeting, the same stuff that grocery bags are made from | 06:52 |
| kanzure_ | well you could just spout off aboout the possibilities, sure | 06:52 |
| kanzure_ | but I | 06:52 |
| gene | but that seems a bit wasteful to me | 06:52 |
| kanzure_ | I'm wondering how you'd actually go about getting implementations? | 06:52 |
| gene | yeah you would need gasoline powered airplanes, not special RC plane fuel, and some automatic refuel system | 06:53 |
| fenn | kanzure_: bounties | 06:53 |
| fenn | it seems like a very accessible research area | 06:54 |
| gene | oh and might I remind you that small 2 stroke engines can be very polluting | 06:54 |
| fenn | they havent yet made UAV's or knowledge about them illegal... | 06:54 |
| gene | yup | 06:54 |
| gene | it's unregulatable now | 06:54 |
| fenn | gene: might i remind you that driving your two ton fucking block of metal and glass to the store is also polluting | 06:54 |
| gene | two stroke engines are more polluting | 06:54 |
| gene | err small engines are | 06:55 |
| fenn | if it's an issue, i'll use a four-stroke engine | 06:55 |
| gene | or turbines | 06:55 |
| fenn | really i think electric would be fine since the trip distance is easily characterized | 06:55 |
| fenn | in terms of maintenance costs it's way cheaper | 06:55 |
| fenn | and more predictable | 06:55 |
| gene | what about wind | 06:56 |
| fenn | this would only fly (haha) in a very progressive area though, due to silly government officials getting in the way | 06:56 |
| gene | not even in a very progressive area | 06:57 |
| fenn | where then? | 06:57 |
| gene | where there is no red tape | 06:57 |
| fenn | people have to be: 1) lazy 2) lots of money 3) not risk-averse | 06:57 |
| fenn | and live relatively close together | 06:57 |
| gene | in LA cops can't fly a UAV because redtape | 06:57 |
| fenn | FAA? | 06:58 |
| gene | you guessed it | 06:58 |
| fenn | i remember the automated radio beacon whatsit project failed because they had to have a human on-board, even though he wasnt doing anything | 06:58 |
| gene | oh yeah try to avoid hitting powerlines | 06:58 |
| fenn | piece of cake | 06:59 |
| gene | automated radio beacon? | 06:59 |
| fenn | powerlines are a big long conductor, how can you not see them? | 06:59 |
| fenn | (with appropriate radar of course) | 06:59 |
| gene | what with micro impulse radar or optic flow | 06:59 |
| fenn | the beacon i'm talking about was a 24-hour solar powered plane that would just fly over an area constantly | 07:00 |
| gene | it's hard to put radar on something small | 07:00 |
| gene | cool | 07:00 |
| fenn | acting as a cellphone tower or satellite replacement | 07:00 |
| gene | was one built? | 07:00 |
| fenn | yes it was a nasa project | 07:00 |
| gene | cool | 07:00 |
| gene | so how do you deliver the goods? | 07:00 |
| fenn | you've seen pictures i'm sure.. just a big wing with some tailfin looking things for wheels | 07:00 |
| gene | I know know | 07:00 |
| fenn | deliver? | 07:01 |
| fenn | oh, the starting point? | 07:01 |
| gene | as in get them to some one's front yard | 07:01 |
| gene | and not their pool | 07:01 |
| fenn | GPS | 07:01 |
| fenn | not my fault if they want it to land in their pool | 07:01 |
| gene | how do you get them on the ground | 07:02 |
| fenn | drop them | 07:02 |
| fenn | gravity | 07:02 |
| gene | from what height? | 07:02 |
| fenn | i dunno | 07:02 |
| gene | 0? | 07:02 |
| fenn | maybe | 07:02 |
| fenn | with enough reserve thrust, any airplane can act as a helicopter | 07:03 |
| gene | what do you wish to deliver and at what cost? | 07:03 |
| gene | you don't need reserve thrust | 07:03 |
| gene | you just need a long rope | 07:03 |
| fenn | electronics, medicine, software.. things with high value but low mass and volume | 07:03 |
| gene | good idea | 07:04 |
| gene | heh in that case you might drop them | 07:04 |
| gene | might have trouble with electronics thoug | 07:05 |
| fenn | recently i ordered a package of: LED's, micro-SD cards, and watch batteries | 07:05 |
| gene | I don't see how you could do this year round | 07:05 |
| gene | how many other people do? | 07:05 |
| fenn | not sure | 07:05 |
| gene | http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg18624971.600 | 07:06 |
| gene | argh | 07:06 |
| gene | they archived the article | 07:06 |
| gene | those bastards | 07:06 |
| gene | well if you fly an airplane in circles | 07:07 |
| fenn | or TWO airplanes :) | 07:07 |
| fenn | we can even get all 6 degrees of freedom with 3 airplanes | 07:08 |
| fenn | well maybe not | 07:08 |
| gene | with a long rope on it, you can fly around the rope, keeping the rope motionless, put a basket on the end and you have your self a delivery mechanism | 07:08 |
| fenn | not sure it's quite so simple | 07:08 |
| gene | it isn't but robots can do it | 07:09 |
| gene | a UAV did it | 07:09 |
| gene | the article talks about some fuzzy logic that does it | 07:10 |
| fenn | hmm i guess two airplanes going in circles is sort of a distributed helicopter (catamarairplane?) | 07:10 |
| gene | but it's archived | 07:10 |
| gene | with ropes, insta tangle! | 07:10 |
| gene | how do you know where to land? | 07:12 |
| fenn | GPS combined with aerial survey maps, radar, and some teleoperators for backup | 07:13 |
| gene | how do you prevent someone from stealing your airplane while it's on the ground | 07:13 |
| fenn | it wouldn't be on the ground for long | 07:13 |
| fenn | and if they did, it's not like we couldnt find it | 07:14 |
| gene | ok | 07:14 |
| fenn | unless they know exactly which chip and wire to desolder | 07:14 |
| gene | I don't really see how this could take off, except for on a hobbyist level | 07:14 |
| gene | they could throw tin foil over it | 07:15 |
| fenn | vinge's idea was to have big artillery cannons that shoot projectiles with parachutes to a certain location | 07:15 |
| gene | yeah but what about wind | 07:15 |
| gene | and the cost of parachutes | 07:15 |
| fenn | parachute has some smartness to get it to the right place, and it's ballasted with mass (probably water) | 07:15 |
| fenn | parachutes are returned by recipient | 07:16 |
| gene | how | 07:16 |
| fenn | uh.. by providing a monetary incentive? | 07:16 |
| fenn | at the post office or shopping mall or whatever | 07:17 |
| fenn | people return cans and bottles for $0.05 | 07:18 |
| fenn | this could be much more | 07:18 |
| gene | automated parachutes cost a lot | 07:19 |
| fenn | says you | 07:19 |
| gene | gps unit, radar(or laser scanner), smarts, actuators | 07:20 |
| gene | gps receivers cost about $50 | 07:22 |
| gene | maybe you should consider laser guided parawings | 07:22 |
| gene | or landing beacon guidance | 07:23 |
| fenn | GPS will come down in cost a lot, but it's not even necessary, we could use regular old radio triangulation | 07:23 |
| fenn | + webcam for recognizing landscape | 07:23 |
| gene | I can't wait for that | 07:23 |
| gene | what about snowy landscapes? | 07:24 |
| fenn | radio gets you long range localization, webcam for precise localization | 07:24 |
| fenn | what about them? | 07:24 |
| fenn | we'll have airplanes flying over constantly remember? :) | 07:24 |
| gene | things change | 07:24 |
| gene | parawings are going to be expensive, unless you have a factory | 07:26 |
| gene | hmmm... unless you use a rogallo wing | 07:28 |
| gene | you might be able to make rogallo wings cheaply | 07:28 |
| gene | though at that point you might want to make them into something like a glider an not a parachute | 07:29 |
| gene | http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/pagrosse/h2orrecchute3.htm | 07:29 |
| gene | make a parafoil | 07:29 |
| fenn | airbags was another solution | 07:31 |
| fenn | realistically you'd need both i think | 07:31 |
| gene | both is expensive | 07:31 |
| fenn | parachute to reduce impact damage if the airbag doesnt work, and to provide steering | 07:31 |
| fenn | airbag so the parachute isnt ungodly huge | 07:32 |
| gene | plus, airbags don't seem safe | 07:32 |
| fenn | "reduce impact damage" to the surrounding environment i mean | 07:32 |
| gene | how do you deploy the airbag | 07:32 |
| fenn | uh, gunpowder? | 07:32 |
| gene | most airbags us explosive charges | 07:32 |
| fenn | or CO2 | 07:32 |
| gene | not gunpowder | 07:32 |
| gene | CO cartriges are expensive | 07:32 |
| fenn | bah | 07:32 |
| gene | $12 for 5 | 07:33 |
| fenn | i dunno where you buy your cartridges | 07:33 |
| fenn | anyway there's lots of options for inflating an airbag | 07:33 |
| gene | cartidges are potentially reusable though | 07:33 |
| gene | you could use helicopter recovery | 07:34 |
| gene | like an autogyro | 07:34 |
| gene | http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/terriblesecret | 07:35 |
| fenn | i don't do flash :P | 07:35 |
| gene | anyway build one | 07:39 |
| fenn | http://www.dichotomistic.com/mind_readings_spider%20minds.html | 08:03 |
| fenn | non-evolved strategies and learning in spiders | 08:04 |
| -!- kanzure_ is now known as kanzure2 | 15:11 | |
| -!- kanzure2 is now known as kanzure_ | 15:59 | |
| kanzure_ | A diamond-based biosensor for the recording of neuronal activity. | 16:16 |
| kanzure_ | http://www.personalweb.unito.it/paolo.ariano/ftp/articoli/Ariano08.pdf | 16:16 |
| kanzure_ | per om, http://www.techforce.com.br/index.php/news/linux_blog/scientific_study_about_debian_governance_and_organization | 16:27 |
| bkero | Mmm cameras | 17:28 |
| kanzure_ | "MACHINISTS WANTED" "The demand for machinists is so great and the supply so limited in almost every city in the United States that many manufacturers have a standing offer with Vocational and Industrial Schools for the employment of all young men who have finished the machine-shop course." | 17:56 |
| bkero | Haha | 17:57 |
| bkero | I wonder if that means they pay well | 17:57 |
| kanzure_ | This was 1920. | 17:58 |
| bkero | Ah | 17:58 |
| kanzure_ | I've found a cache of Really Good Stuff that I'm uploading at the moment. At an astonishingly slow 70 KB/sec. (Yesterday I was getting 700. Hrm..) | 17:59 |
| kanzure_ | http://heybryan.org/books/Manufacturing/gingery/ | 18:04 |
| kanzure_ | It's still unzipping, so be careful. | 18:04 |
| kanzure_ | http://heybryan.org/books/Manufacturing/gingery.zip for the 60 MB zip. | 18:05 |
| kanzure_ | So, that's a good bunch of content that should be more thoroughly packaged at some point (along with mechmate.zip) | 18:52 |
| kanzure_ | http://sbml.org/Community/Programs <- small sbml scripts/programs to be added to their svn repo. I might submit some stuff.. | 18:56 |
| kanzure_ | hm, maybe I should become a debian developer so that I can take a look at the code they're using to manage themselves. | 19:07 |
| kanzure_ | iirc, they're using lots of custom scripts to manage hoards of developers | 19:07 |
| kanzure_ | http://www.synbioproject.org/ uhg | 19:07 |
| kanzure_ | ugh | 19:07 |
| kanzure_ | fenn: > This is the commercial product I have been working on for the past three | 20:25 |
| kanzure_ | > years. It's a >$1mil 3000+ piece machine in the biotech space. When I say | 20:25 |
| kanzure_ | > the whole data vault or data set that defines the system I'm including | 20:25 |
| kanzure_ | > solidmodels, drawings, specifications, test plans, test reports, schematics | 20:25 |
| kanzure_ | > and board layouts, software source code, artwork, assembly work | 20:25 |
| kanzure_ | > instructions, purchasing specifications, etc. It's very large project | 20:25 |
| kanzure_ | > compared to say a bicycle, phone, or something on that scale, but small | 20:25 |
| kanzure_ | > compared to a car or an airplane. Just depends. | 20:25 |
| kanzure_ | hm | 21:37 |
| kanzure_ | I don't think I could be happier. | 21:37 |
| kanzure_ | gingery books are torrented now | 21:37 |
| kanzure_ | hm, not all of them | 21:37 |
| kanzure_ | I wonder where I should go if I wanted to read the automobile industry bailout proposal. Is this going to be on THOMAS as debate-stuff for the House? | 21:56 |
| kanzure_ | http://thomas.loc.gov/ | 21:57 |
| kanzure_ | gene: any idea where I can read the automobile bailout proposal documents? | 21:57 |
| gene | No | 21:57 |
| kanzure_ | I'm guessing it may or may not be on THOMAS. | 21:57 |
| gene | why you want to apply for it? | 21:57 |
| gene | is fenn there? | 21:57 |
| kanzure_ | " Auto Industry Financing and Restructuring Act " | 21:57 |
| kanzure_ | No, I want to read it and laugh | 21:58 |
| kanzure_ | http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?c110:4:./temp/~c110qfAC8X:: | 21:58 |
| gene | well it is good comedy | 21:58 |
| gene | so I don't see why not | 21:58 |
| gene | you might also want to read that iraq executive order thing that forbids people in Iraq from using nonregistered seeds | 21:59 |
| gene | ie anything not from a big company | 21:59 |
| gene | new IP law in Iraq | 21:59 |
| gene | failed lol | 22:01 |
| gene | http://developing-your-web-presence.blogspot.com/2008/10/on-titanium-thermite-bronze-age-and.html | 22:02 |
| gene | need some titanium? | 22:03 |
| kanzure_ | "It has been a difficult decision, but we have decided not to continue work on Google Research Datasets, but to instead focus our efforts on other activities such as Google Scholar, our Research Programs, and publishing papers about research here at Google." | 23:02 |
| kanzure_ | " | 23:02 |
| kanzure_ | The Google Research Datasets service will remain active until the end of January 2009 during which time any datasets may be downloaded. For those datasets that are impractical to download, we will also happily provide interested users with a copy via hard drive shipment." | 23:02 |
| ybit | just tried out the asus eee pc, wow, that keyboard is small. anyone know of something similar with a not so small keyboard? | 23:28 |
| ybit | tragic news kanzure_ | 23:29 |
| ybit | bkero: didn't you have an ideapad? | 23:37 |
| ybit | can't remember, it was a lenovo something | 23:37 |
| ybit | i'm betting all these type notebooks have too small of a keyboard for my taste | 23:39 |
| bkero | ybit: I don't have a lenovo. | 23:48 |
| -!- drazak_ is now known as drazak | 23:48 | |
| bkero | ybit: I got a dell mini, it has a pretty good size keyboard. | 23:48 |
| ybit | hmm, i will have to test it out | 23:49 |
| bkero | Do you have hands like a gorilla? | 23:58 |
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