| --- Day changed Sat Dec 20 2008 | ||
| fenn | hmm this sounds sorta like my life: "Welcome, you have now become unemployed. We regret to inform you that there aren't many openings for jobs, and the alternative to working to live hasn't been able to fully scale and deploy at this time. Good luck." | 01:56 |
|---|---|---|
| fenn | a nice history of prescription psychoactive drug use in the US: http://www.csicop.org/si/2008-06/weiss.html | 02:00 |
| gene | you know fenn, instead of airbags for UAV package bombing you could use packing foam or bagged air packing materials | 02:03 |
| fenn | depends on the mass being dropped and the package size | 02:05 |
| fenn | i.e. bagged air wouldn't work to well for your 1kg uranium sample | 02:06 |
| fenn | too* | 02:06 |
| gene | heh | 02:06 |
| gene | How the heck do you know about it fenn? | 02:06 |
| * fenn furtively encrypts his copy of gene's hard drive | 02:07 | |
| gene | at least you don't know the purity or mass number | 02:07 |
| gene | what would be the max package size your aerial deliverator would carry? | 02:09 |
| fenn | doesn't work like that | 02:10 |
| fenn | it's a continuous function | 02:10 |
| gene | kanzure, you there? | 02:10 |
| fenn | the more crap you strap onto it, the slower it flies | 02:10 |
| fenn | rather, you'd want to keep the payload around its optimum cost/benefit ratio | 02:10 |
| kanzure_ | yes, I'm replying to Tom Knight re: "synthetic biology >> milling machines".. | 02:11 |
| gene | Well you might want to deliver small things | 02:11 |
| kanzure_ | in particular I'm thinking back to xp_prg | 02:11 |
| gene | like dox | 02:11 |
| gene | huh? | 02:11 |
| kanzure_ | the linear programming mindset is still pervasive even within the synthetic biology community | 02:11 |
| gene | HAHAHAHAHAHAHA | 02:11 |
| gene | they need to learn about network theory | 02:12 |
| fenn | dox? | 02:12 |
| gene | legal documents | 02:12 |
| fenn | do you still have to physically sign stuff? | 02:12 |
| gene | yup | 02:13 |
| fenn | wtf does that prove anyway | 02:13 |
| gene | in large cities they have people with bikes ferry dox between buildings | 02:13 |
| gene | they are called couriers | 02:14 |
| gene | the hard part is getting people to trust sending dox via UAVs | 02:15 |
| gene | also buildings can focus winds, making it hard for UAVs | 02:15 |
| gene | also, where do you land the UAV in the city? | 02:17 |
| fenn | this wouldnt work in a big city downtown anyway, unless you had some way to land on roof and go into the building | 02:17 |
| fenn | it's more for suburbia, to reduce number of SUV's driving around pointlessly | 02:17 |
| gene | how do you deliver a huge flat panel fenn | 02:17 |
| fenn | the whole "two tons of glass and steel to get a coke" thing | 02:17 |
| fenn | with a UPS truck, silly | 02:17 |
| gene | people aren't giving up SUVs | 02:17 |
| fenn | i know | 02:18 |
| gene | they are safer | 02:18 |
| fenn | they also hate driving | 02:18 |
| gene | or at least people think they are | 02:18 |
| fenn | they are safer because all the energy is absorbed by the splattered brains of people in small cars | 02:18 |
| gene | heh | 02:18 |
| fenn | F-150? 250? had the worst crash rating of american cars | 02:19 |
| gene | supposedly NIST or someone did a study on it, and all the radio talkshow hosts are pushing it | 02:19 |
| fenn | now that's not an SUV but they're all about the same to me | 02:19 |
| gene | so you want to deliver coke via UAV? | 02:20 |
| fenn | sure why not | 02:20 |
| gene | you could shoot the coke out of a cannon, the bottle has a fairly aerodynamic shape | 02:21 |
| fenn | you could shoot the UAV out of a cannon too | 02:21 |
| gene | add some fins and a recovery system too | 02:21 |
| gene | to the coke bottle | 02:21 |
| gene | not a big one | 02:21 |
| gene | but yes | 02:22 |
| gene | maybe a big one, if you use inflatable wings, but catapults make more sense when you get big | 02:22 |
| fenn | with a little propeller around the cap right :) | 02:22 |
| gene | to trigger the recovery system of course! | 02:22 |
| gene | have you done a cost analysis to see if you could make a profit with it? | 02:24 |
| gene | http://www.physorg.com/news148916503.html | 02:26 |
| gene | this might be useful kanzure | 02:26 |
| gene | cheap sonicator | 02:28 |
| kanzure_ | wtfm, profuturists.org (it's just the Assoc. of Professional Futurists) | 02:32 |
| kanzure_ | catchy domain name I guess. | 02:32 |
| kanzure_ | "yes, I'm antifuture. I increasingly hate my self every moment I live" | 02:32 |
| fenn | you and your "profit" | 02:33 |
| fenn | isnt having a UAV deliver a coke profit enough? | 02:33 |
| gene | professional futurists, I want that job | 02:34 |
| gene | get to play oracle all day long | 02:34 |
| gene | fenn, profit is being able to get money from venture capitalists to do it | 02:35 |
| kanzure_ | oh crap. obvious rebuttal to Tom's email. He's saying that synbio is the way rather than manufacturing in the traditional sense, but he seems to fail to realize that the tools to do synbio require manufacturing at this time.. | 02:35 |
| gene | and that biology is noisy | 02:35 |
| kanzure_ | fenn: how do people make money if that's their reasoning about the whole of it "meh, just get a vc to fund it, that's profit." | 02:36 |
| gene | VC's won't fund it unless it is profitable, or they're stupid | 02:37 |
| kanzure_ | no, you just said something completely different | 02:37 |
| kanzure_ | you said "profit is being able to get money from VCs" | 02:37 |
| gene | ok | 02:37 |
| gene | I was wrong | 02:44 |
| kanzure_ | fenn: help. I'm trying to reply to Nathan about how his latest intro also sucks. whenever he writes it's as if he's a politican trying to push some view. | 03:00 |
| kanzure_ | I don't necessarily disagree with him, but it just *hurts* because the writing sucks and doesn't need to exist | 03:00 |
| kanzure_ | so now he's saying "What political ideology do you believe is implied?" | 03:00 |
| kanzure_ | "but its my hope that it if is not, it can become a primary goal for Open Manufacturing" why does it have to have a political goal, gtfo.. | 03:01 |
| fenn | i hate when people talk about sharing energy as currency | 03:02 |
| fenn | you might as well talk about sharing water or land as currency | 03:02 |
| * kanzure_ hands you North America, breaks his back in process | 03:03 | |
| * fenn wonders which is worth more, North America or the lever that was used to move it | 03:06 | |
| kanzure_ | maybe I can just tell him, "I fold. But please stop writing. You're killing neurons." | 03:08 |
| fenn | rofl | 03:08 |
| fenn | You must "stand up to the challenge" and prove | 03:08 |
| fenn | your dignity, free will, your Country, only one true God, and the other things that can't | 03:08 |
| fenn | possibly continue utmost happiness, so to be worthy of an earned, privileged, | 03:08 |
| fenn | righteous and acceptable life. | 03:08 |
| kanzure_ | many other important mailing lists go fine without long, flowy introductions | 03:09 |
| kanzure_ | debian-dev for instance. has been going for *decades* without a flowy intro. | 03:09 |
| fenn | i think i prefer "protocol definitions" rather than ambiguous poetry | 03:09 |
| kanzure_ | hm? | 03:09 |
| fenn | usually i'm left wondering whether something is appropriate to post to a list or not | 03:10 |
| fenn | a list is just a communications protocol after all | 03:10 |
| fenn | "mind the SNR" doesnt help most sorts of semantic noise | 03:11 |
| kanzure_ | when you hit 150+ mailing lists, it gets harder to figure out which of the 150 lists you should send something interesting to | 03:11 |
| fenn | yeah | 03:11 |
| kanzure_ | but what is a "protocol definition" in this context? | 03:11 |
| kanzure_ | SMTP? | 03:11 |
| fenn | which mailing list to send stuff to | 03:12 |
| fenn | or rather, what sort of stuff should be sent to this list | 03:12 |
| fenn | and you can figure out the inverse from that | 03:12 |
| fenn | wouldnt it be nice to have a 'topic matrix' | 03:13 |
| fenn | and then run singular value decomposition on your message | 03:13 |
| fenn | it goes where it needs to go | 03:13 |
| kanzure_ | so basically a modified bayesian classifier (spam filter) | 03:15 |
| kanzure_ | and the feedback would be the amount of positive response in terms of people either replying with positive things to say, or the number of responses, etc. | 03:15 |
| kanzure_ | feedback/scoring | 03:15 |
| kanzure_ | heh, I have 80,000+ emails from many mailing lists in my archives | 03:16 |
| kanzure_ | so there's the training material .. | 03:16 |
| fenn | what does "unported" mean in "CC-BY-SA 3.0 Unported"? | 03:17 |
| kanzure_ | don't know. I googled it and didn't find anything informative | 03:17 |
| kanzure_ | but I did like how simple the CC-BY-SA 3.0 explanation page was | 03:18 |
| fenn | "the Unported licenses (introduced in 3.0) are written to conform to international copyright treaty." | 03:20 |
| fenn | rather than tailored to a specific jurisdiction | 03:21 |
| kanzure_ | hm. | 03:21 |
| fenn | i wonder why microwave ovens don't have IR temperature sensors instead of a timer | 03:26 |
| fenn | so there'd be two buttons, one for size of object, another for surface temperature | 03:26 |
| fenn | or it could use a scale to determine the size | 03:27 |
| kanzure_ | probably an over anxious pre-optimization of the system.. "ok, screw all this technical crap; people want to be able to use it immediately. ok.. let's just make it a timer." | 03:27 |
| fenn | but they always have that obnoxious beeping membrane switch thing | 03:29 |
| fenn | i hate that shit! | 03:29 |
| fenn | i had a pile of microwaves and the only one i kept has two knobs: power level and a mechanical timer | 03:31 |
| kanzure_ | http://projectperko.blogspot.com/2006/06/gods-of-future.html <- I still like this. I quoted it on Kevin Kelly's blog once. | 03:53 |
| gene | heh | 04:04 |
| gene | set the powerlevel to over 9000 | 04:04 |
| gene | IR temperature sensors measure the surface temperature of the food | 04:04 |
| gene | kanzure you sound like you're trolling | 04:05 |
| gene | microwave might have to have an ir camera | 04:06 |
| fenn | now you're just being silly | 04:08 |
| gene | a low pixel ir camera | 04:09 |
| gene | take advantage of that rotating plate | 04:09 |
| kanzure_ | gene, where was I trolling? | 04:09 |
| fenn | anyway the point is if you know the mass you know approximately the depth of microwave penetration and can make a depth/temperature profile | 04:09 |
| gene | well fenn it's more complicated than that | 04:09 |
| gene | microwaves have hotspots due to the size of the wavelenght | 04:10 |
| gene | you also have different microwave absorbances, say the bone in that chicken compared to the meat on the bone | 04:11 |
| gene | Nathan, on why his latest intro also sucks | 04:12 |
| gene | that sounds like trolling | 04:12 |
| kanzure_ | in an email I wrote or in here? | 04:14 |
| gene | in here | 04:14 |
| gene | you don't have to reply | 04:15 |
| fenn | i think you used the word "trolling" wrong | 04:15 |
| gene | ok | 04:15 |
| gene | please define trolling then | 04:15 |
| fenn | making an intentionally inflamatory statement to incite a response, without actually caring about the issue one way or another | 04:16 |
| gene | btw did Sata send you the algae sampling instructions Kanzure? | 04:16 |
| gene | ok | 04:16 |
| gene | it sounded like Kanzure was trolling | 04:16 |
| kanzure_ | heh, if only all trolls use a bayesian filtering mechanism | 04:18 |
| kanzure_ | *would use | 04:18 |
| fenn | for automated trolling? | 04:18 |
| fenn | god that would be an awesome way to make money with spam | 04:18 |
| fenn | you can see here <ad link> that <we should eat babies> | 04:19 |
| fenn | tailored to the thread | 04:19 |
| gene | Bayesian filtering mechanism, what is that? | 04:21 |
| gene | babies, a new delicacy is born everyday | 04:21 |
| kanzure_ | gene: "Bayesian inference is statistical inference in which evidence or observations are used to update or to newly infer the probability that a hypothesis may be true." | 04:28 |
| gene | so how do you get computers to do it | 04:29 |
| gene | do you use it in automatic design? | 04:30 |
| kanzure_ | yes, it is possible to do bayesian inference in automatic design, but frankly I don't want to because it's about probabilities rather than formal design methodologies. | 04:43 |
| kanzure_ | and there aaaare tons of open source bayesian stuff | 04:43 |
| kanzure_ | http://openbayes.org/ | 04:43 |
| kanzure_ | http://www.openbayes.org/tutorials/inference-in-the-watersprinkler-bayesian-network | 04:44 |
| kanzure_ | http://www.google.com/Top/Computers/Artificial_Intelligence/Belief_Networks/Software/ | 04:44 |
| kanzure_ | http://bnt.sf.net/ but only for matlab | 04:44 |
| kanzure_ | etc. | 04:44 |
| gene | you can have a program give you probabilities and learn things? | 04:46 |
| gene | only for matlab isn't a problem, we have access to the ME appserver remember? | 04:46 |
| kanzure_ | there are better solutions out there. ignore the matlab one, that was just at the top of the search results | 05:10 |
| gene | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLJxMUw51N8&feature=related | 06:27 |
| gene | 5 axises of awesome | 06:27 |
| gene | note build error | 06:28 |
| kanzure_ | http://zacksprojects.blogspot.com/2008/12/science-article.html <-- I worked with this guy in a lab. I'd read it. | 07:00 |
| kanzure_ | fenn: ok, nathan's latest email isn't terrible. faith renewed? | 07:20 |
| kanzure_ | fenn: also, now might be an ok time to again suggest the 'debian social contract' and similar provisions .. if you want to post something like that to om. Tito and Meredith from diybio have sent me a partial version for the diybio.org community, but it's more geared towards safety and good lab protocol (i.e., not dying) | 07:27 |
| kanzure_ | heh, Jim Carrey likes death metal. | 07:58 |
| kanzure_ | http://moviesblog.mtv.com/2008/12/17/keanu-reeves-eager-to-do-something-good-with-cowboy-bebop-movie | 08:14 |
| kanzure_ | keanu reeves playing keanu reeves.. | 08:14 |
| bkero | kanzure_: You saw the live action dbz trailer, didn't you? | 08:28 |
| kanzure_ | Not the trailer. | 08:48 |
| kanzure_ | Hrm, I need to figure out which of the 20 ports is for audio again. | 08:48 |
| fenn | huh. does Nathan have multiple personality disorder to something? | 09:56 |
| fenn | all of a sudden there is the appearance of linear rational thought | 10:00 |
| fenn | wheee posting "offer massive quantities of yarn" sure gets freecyclers excited | 14:53 |
| kanzure_ | are you implying that freecyclers are simply computer-wielding cats? | 15:40 |
| kanzure_ | http://www.re-public.gr/en/?p=479 CFP re: transhuman | 15:42 |
| kanzure_ | argh, this sucks, it's failing to separate "let's enforce it for all of humanity" and personal options. | 15:43 |
| fenn | kanzure: the computer-wielding cat theory is quite probable | 16:09 |
| gene | best cellphone mod ever: http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/multimedia/2008/12/gallery_microscope_phone | 20:22 |
| kanzure_ | where's PeerInfinity? | 21:26 |
| kanzure_ | I want to tell him how much "The Scenarios Project" sucks :/ | 21:26 |
| kanzure_ | seriously, I send the 'radical transhuman organization' links and information about actual engineering | 21:27 |
| kanzure_ | and then he replies with this crap: | 21:27 |
| kanzure_ | http://cosmeng.org/publicwiki/index.php/The_Scenarios_Project | 21:27 |
| kanzure_ | as if that map was the true territory. | 21:29 |
| kanzure_ | *sigh* | 21:29 |
| gene | sigh indeed | 21:34 |
| kanzure_ | what do you know of the map-not-being-the-territory? | 21:34 |
| kanzure_ | half the time it feels like I'm explaining that to you.. | 21:34 |
| gene | too many people want to set up a framework to do the work, while not actually doing the work | 21:35 |
| kanzure_ | frameworks are ok, but the mapping initiatives are hardly about the frameworks | 21:35 |
| kanzure_ | configure-make-install is a nice framework. | 21:35 |
| gene | heh that map is funny, reminds me of a monty python sketch | 21:36 |
| kanzure_ | the map on the link in particular? | 21:36 |
| gene | yes | 21:36 |
| gene | college of cosmic engineers | 21:36 |
| gene | you don't happen to know autocad, do you? | 21:37 |
| gene | I mean, how to use autocad? | 21:37 |
| gene | I am playing around with autocad 2000, aka autocad classic | 21:39 |
| gene | autocad 2000 has a command prompt | 21:45 |
| gene | you might like it | 21:45 |
| gene | http://cosmeng.org/publicwiki/index.php/Kevin_Warwick_-_Is_Actively_Working_Towards_-_Cybernetics | 21:47 |
| gene | Kevin Warwick is working toward bioethics? | 21:48 |
| gene | HAHAHAHA They have a cosmic engineers WoW guild | 21:48 |
| gene | I take it, this isn't very serious | 21:48 |
| kanzure_ | well | 21:55 |
| kanzure_ | they are serious, but they are jerks | 21:55 |
| kanzure_ | Kevin Warwick is Captain Cyborg :-) | 21:55 |
| kanzure_ | anyway, all of the old CAD programs had command prompts. | 21:55 |
| kanzure_ | autocad 2008/2009 doesn't seem to easily run under wine. I haven't gotten it to work, though others on winehq's appdb have. | 21:55 |
| gene | I know who Warwick is Kanzure | 22:16 |
| gene | they seem like incompetent jerks to me | 22:17 |
| gene | you have autocad 2008? | 22:17 |
| gene | autocad 2008 sucks | 22:17 |
| gene | in my opinion | 22:17 |
| gene | I think the programmers were like, "let's make all the icons look pretty and professional" | 22:18 |
| gene | instead of let's add some useful features | 22:18 |
| kanzure_ | phillipe van nedervalde thinks that "instead of doing open source hardware projects, we should make a roadmap from here up to and until computronium" | 23:23 |
| kanzure_ | what the hell is this guy smoking | 23:23 |
| UtopiahGHML | computronium? | 23:25 |
| kanzure_ | he has an obsession with saying computronium is the end result of everything | 23:35 |
| kanzure_ | and I suspect he's in a rut much like Eli or Lee. | 23:35 |
| UtopiahGHML | sounds like the pandemonium computer | 23:36 |
| gene | pandemonium as in pan "demon" ium | 23:53 |
| gene | as in you have a whole bunch of entities that report up to higher entities | 23:55 |
| gene | that sort of pandemonium? | 23:55 |
| gene | would computronium be the end result of making a sandwich? | 23:56 |
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