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* bkero shrugs. Looks normal to me. | 00:07 | |
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kanzure_ | "how should one off himself?" - Andrew the robot | 00:23 |
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kanzure_ | http://sugarshot.org/downloads/propellant_spec.doc | 00:46 |
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* kanzure_ has hit 72,000 messages in his inbox. | 10:53 | |
kanzure_ | unread. | 10:53 |
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wrldpc | Love you mothafuckas. | 11:05 |
wrldpc | holy shit. | 11:05 |
wrldpc | bbiab | 11:06 |
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* SL4observer forgets how to use the IRC ghostkill command :P | 11:37 | |
SL4observer | ok, this is kinda insane: | 11:38 |
SL4observer | Why can't I get Help from this program? | 11:38 |
SL4observer | The Help for this program was created in Windows Help format, which was used in previous versions of Windows and it is not supported in Windows Vista. | 11:38 |
SL4observer | For more information, see Windows Help program (WinHlp32.exe) is no longer included with Windows on the Microsoft support website. | 11:38 |
kanzure_ | Hah. | 11:43 |
kanzure_ | http://irchelp.org | 11:43 |
kanzure_ | or /msg nickserv help | 11:43 |
SL4observer | thanks :) | 11:44 |
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PeerInfinity | that worked, thanks :) | 11:45 |
PeerInfinity | it was the GHOST command | 11:45 |
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fenn | I am 50% here | 12:12 |
fenn | the other half is still frozen | 12:12 |
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kanzure_ | "Another thing blogs and open source software have in common is that they're often made by people working at home. That may not seem surprising. But it should be. It's the architectural equivalent of a home-made aircraft shooting down an F-18. Companies spend millions to build office buildings for a single purpose: to be a place to work. And yet people working in their own homes, which aren't even designed to be workplaces, end up being more productive." | 12:20 |
kanzure_ | http://www.paulgraham.com/opensource.html | 12:21 |
kanzure_ | I don't know why I'm reading graham this morning | 12:21 |
kanzure_ | http://rsss.anu.edu.au/~janeth/OSBusMod.html paper on OSS biotech thingy, lots of references to CAMBIA and ESR .. | 12:35 |
fenn | say, you know... i dont think the skdb page is hopelessly unrecoverable | 12:44 |
fenn | i have to fix it up for my "portfolio" anyway | 12:44 |
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kanzure_ | fenn, you've missed the diybio mailing list explosion | 12:48 |
kanzure_ | +20 members/day of "omglol where do I start?!? give me teh codes!!!" | 12:49 |
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fenn | meh | 12:50 |
fenn | did anyone write a FAQ | 12:50 |
gene | oh shit I need to join that too | 12:50 |
fenn | let's see if hugo elias is interested in OM: http://groups.google.com/group/wildcat-cad/browse_thread/thread/2c8e52512889410a | 12:51 |
gene | who is Hugo Elias? | 12:52 |
gene | http://freespace.virgin.net/hugo.elias/models/m_ffire.htm | 12:53 |
gene | this hugo elias? | 12:53 |
fenn | probably | 12:54 |
fenn | the guy behind liquidpcb.org | 12:54 |
kanzure_ | it's odd, but I seem to have trouble writing code because of a knee problem. I can't go 20 minutes without having to jump up and walk around. | 12:55 |
kanzure_ | fenn, Bruce Perens expressed some preliminary interest in om | 12:56 |
fenn | well, that's good i guess | 12:56 |
kanzure_ | something about a grant coming up in a year that is related. | 12:56 |
fenn | kanzure_: maybe you have "cabin fever" | 12:56 |
fenn | it's rare in texas, but I have heard of a few cases down there | 12:57 |
kanzure_ | this is physical pain | 12:57 |
fenn | sweet, hugo elias has exactly the code I want for SMIRF | 12:57 |
fenn | and he works at shadow robotics, IIRC | 13:00 |
fenn | the airmuscle walker/hand people | 13:00 |
kanzure_ | class ingredient: some sourced material variable (CAS ID? matweb ID? etc.), plus a measurement object | 13:10 |
kanzure_ | class step: input = ingredient(), output = ingredient(), parameter = pointer to a filename (like my.gcode), or something like that. Also, an optional specific-id to reference a package that solves this, or a list of possible solutions | 13:10 |
kanzure_ | class recipe: steps (list of step objects), ingredients (list of ingredient objects) | 13:11 |
kanzure_ | I'm not convinced that the ingredient class is going to work out. | 13:11 |
fenn | me either | 13:12 |
fenn | "material" is a lot more general | 13:13 |
fenn | or maybe even "substance" | 13:13 |
kanzure_ | oh, just semantics? | 13:14 |
fenn | you already have the assumption that there's a step with an input and an output | 13:14 |
kanzure_ | this is for making the package | 13:14 |
kanzure_ | so, if the package is a hamburger | 13:14 |
fenn | which package? | 13:14 |
kanzure_ | um, let me explain I guess | 13:15 |
fenn | yes yes it works fine for recipes | 13:15 |
kanzure_ | the point is to try to find packages in skdb that solve that step | 13:15 |
kanzure_ | so, if you have a step for 'take physical mass and apply heat' that might be a microwave | 13:15 |
kanzure_ | the input is the physical mass (hamburger) and the output is plus some temperature or something | 13:15 |
kanzure_ | is there a situation where there's no input/outputs of a package in skdb? | 13:16 |
fenn | you can jam any situation into any cognitive model if you try hard enough | 13:16 |
fenn | a machine rusting, or a radiation hazard, what are the inputs and outputs? | 13:16 |
kanzure_ | is that recipe related? | 13:17 |
fenn | mayhaps i'm just being contrary | 13:17 |
gene | kanzure write code on treadmill | 13:19 |
gene | well the weather is nice outside | 13:20 |
fenn | <3 paul graham: "I'd like to suggest an alternative word for someone who publishes online. How about "writer?"" | 13:20 |
kanzure_ | heathen! burn him! | 13:21 |
kanzure_ | gene: I've done that before, actually | 13:21 |
gene | if input is hamburger then get meat, get bread, get lettuce | 13:21 |
kanzure_ | what? | 13:22 |
kanzure_ | no, we're not talking about that | 13:22 |
kanzure_ | input to an abstract 'step' | 13:22 |
gene | find meat centroid, find bread centroid, find lettuce centroid | 13:22 |
kanzure_ | think of it as a pipeline flow diagram of the recipe. | 13:22 |
kanzure_ | the 'get' function could be satisfied by human, or by robotic controller | 13:23 |
gene | put lettuce and meat on lower bun centroid, put top bun centroid onto system centroid | 13:23 |
kanzure_ | the 'heat it up' step could be satisfied by "here's how to build a fire" or "microwave" (and possibly "here's how to make a microwave") | 13:23 |
fenn | i was wandering through the user interface today before i woke up | 13:23 |
kanzure_ | ? | 13:23 |
gene | cooking is a bit different | 13:24 |
kanzure_ | the microwave user interface? | 13:24 |
fenn | there could be a tree of dependencies, and for each one there's a button for "buy" "make" or "trade" | 13:24 |
gene | you have to worry about temperature distribution | 13:24 |
gene | and stuff like that for some recipes | 13:24 |
fenn | buy would show an array of online providers with b2b stuffs | 13:24 |
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kanzure_ | yay b2b stuffs | 13:24 |
fenn | make would spit out instructions or cam files | 13:24 |
gene | cool can I find B2B 405 nm laser diodes? | 13:25 |
fenn | and trade would link to some kind of distributed ebay/mfg.com thing | 13:25 |
kanzure_ | yep | 13:25 |
gene | what about chromium doped AR end coated YAG rod? | 13:25 |
fenn | what about it | 13:25 |
kanzure_ | I was yep'ing fenn, btw. | 13:25 |
kanzure_ | b2b stuffs depends magically on suppliers cooperating with us. | 13:26 |
fenn | 405nm is like, violet? | 13:26 |
gene | yes fenn it is violet | 13:26 |
gene | it is what bluray uses and what HD-DVD used | 13:26 |
fenn | oh, blu-ray diode, that should be easy to find | 13:26 |
gene | yeah I got one for $30 | 13:27 |
fenn | so that's a stupid question to ask | 13:27 |
fenn | bad gene! darwin, exterminate him! | 13:27 |
gene | ok so how do we get suppliers to cooperate? | 13:27 |
gene | incentives? | 13:28 |
fenn | customers ordering from them | 13:28 |
kanzure_ | we could be a bitch about it. | 13:28 |
fenn | if onlinemetals gets $50M in click-through orders, somebody is bound to take notice | 13:29 |
kanzure_ | for instance, some suppliers have online HTML ordering forms, which surfraw can deal with | 13:29 |
kanzure_ | they sometimes also only want email or phone calls | 13:29 |
kanzure_ | so, for email, UBL | 13:29 |
kanzure_ | for the phone, automated phone ordering | 13:29 |
gene | suppliers tend to hate small orders | 13:29 |
kanzure_ | give them the finger. see how they like that. | 13:29 |
gene | blog about them | 13:29 |
kanzure_ | huh? | 13:29 |
fenn | gene: rrrf is the way to handle that situation | 13:29 |
fenn | distributors don't have to be huge | 13:30 |
gene | RRRF can get a chinese factory to make linear steppers | 13:30 |
fenn | O RLY | 13:30 |
gene | oops meant can't | 13:30 |
fenn | but somebody makes them | 13:30 |
fenn | otherwise WE will make them | 13:30 |
gene | yeah but they can't get a factory to custom make them | 13:31 |
fenn | well, whatever, why would you want a custom commodity part? | 13:31 |
gene | because sometimes that what's you need | 13:31 |
fenn | sometimes your design engineer is a fucktard and needs to be shot | 13:31 |
fenn | two situations for custom parts: | 13:32 |
fenn | high performance | 13:32 |
fenn | mass production | 13:32 |
gene | I need a 100ft by 3 ft roll of 15 micrometer black HDPE sheeting | 13:32 |
fenn | i need a 100km rotating multiline Spectra tether, parked in an elliptical orbit | 13:33 |
gene | many plastics manufacturers that make plastic with a thickness of 15 micrometers make the plastic into garbage bags | 13:34 |
kanzure_ | drazak: You want to go help out this guy? http://groups.google.com/group/diybio-chicago/browse_thread/thread/6d9a0ca8880e30c6/057fc0c689416f41#057fc0c689416f41 re: waterbaths. | 13:34 |
kanzure_ | waterbaths for pcr, I mean. | 13:34 |
fenn | gene: i fail to see how this is a custom part? | 13:34 |
fenn | huh well i'm supposed to be ripping out a moldy wall | 13:35 |
gene | companies won't sell you just the flat unturned into garbage bag plastic | 13:35 |
gene | what you do for thermocycling is this: | 13:36 |
gene | get styrofoam, ep tubes, oven, thermometer, brownie pan, water | 13:37 |
gene | drill holes in strofoam for ep tubes, fill pan with water, put ep tubes with sample in hole | 13:38 |
kanzure_ | fenn: while we're talking about ui, I was thinking it'd be nice to wrap/expose the python array/list manipulation methods, specificially geared to recipes. just something on my todo list once I figure out how I'd best like to do the initializers. | 13:38 |
gene | put ep tube styrofoam assemblage in water put in oven, | 13:40 |
gene | check water temperature and adjust accordingly | 13:40 |
drazak | kanzure_: water baths are slow and manual | 13:45 |
gene | is this from personal experience drazak? | 13:51 |
drazak | yes, and they give bad results | 13:53 |
gene | heh, I've used one in bioclass but never in research | 13:55 |
gene | so have you used them in apps where results and consistency matter | 13:56 |
gene | it actually should be pretty cheap to make a peltier based thermal cycler | 13:56 |
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drazak | yeah | 14:26 |
drazak | which is what I've worked on when I have free time | 14:26 |
drazak | but I'm busy with other stuff | 14:26 |
kanzure_ | 'open gel box 2.0' reference on diybio list. | 14:39 |
kanzure_ | blah, I want my damn packaging format | 14:39 |
gene | you guys know anyway to see if a voltage regulator works? | 15:11 |
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kanzure_ | yay, Vern replied about his 'robobench' | 15:35 |
kanzure_ | it appeared in Nuts & Volts magazine | 15:35 |
gene | link? | 15:47 |
kanzure_ | I was saked not to, but hold on a sec | 15:47 |
kanzure_ | 1980s RadioShack Armatron | 15:49 |
kanzure_ | ref to the Iron Man arms :-) | 15:49 |
kanzure_ | CrustCrawler AX-12+ SmartArm | 15:50 |
kanzure_ | Dynamixel servo motors | 15:50 |
kanzure_ | Alex Dirks | 15:51 |
kanzure_ | blah, Vern got free parts from CrustCrawler, Inc. | 15:51 |
kanzure_ | oh the dynamixel is the programmable choreography servo motor stuff. | 15:51 |
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gene | SYNTAX ERROR: please refrase above posts into a coherent sentence | 15:57 |
kanzure_ | Alex Dirks at CrustCrawler was able to get Vern Graner a CrustCrawler AX-12+ SmartArm, which he was working on turning into a robo-helping-hand ("robobench") for his electronics bench. | 15:58 |
gene | a robotic helping hand with super powerful motors? | 15:59 |
kanzure_ | in this case I don't think so | 15:59 |
kanzure_ | it looks pretty flimsy if you ask me, and I'm not seeing a data sheet | 15:59 |
kanzure_ | but anyway, Vern's presently working on a systematic 'tool gallery' that the arm can switch tools out on | 16:00 |
kanzure_ | and then a foot pedal system for switching tools or something | 16:00 |
gene | cool | 16:00 |
kanzure_ | one of the pics shows the obvious use of holding a pcb while you solder. | 16:00 |
kanzure_ | "hand me a scalpel" | 16:01 |
gene | if it could be made more dextrous it might be able to solder things for you | 16:01 |
gene | yeah like I am going to trust a robot with a sharp piece of steel | 16:01 |
kanzure_ | there are other solutions for that IIRC | 16:02 |
kanzure_ | (for mass soldering) | 16:02 |
gene | JK I trust our robot overlords | 16:02 |
kanzure_ | also, how would you tell it where to solder? guestimating the xy coords? | 16:02 |
kanzure_ | I guess you could have a webcam and overlay a coord grid | 16:02 |
kanzure_ | but you also have to account for obstructions and objects | 16:02 |
kanzure_ | have to fit your hands into tiny places and such that don't show up on a birds-eye-view. | 16:03 |
gene | no you make your PCB on a computer components and all, buy all components from mouser, put em in the respective bins, and have your robot friend do the rest | 16:04 |
gene | SMD components only of course | 16:04 |
kanzure_ | SMT? | 16:04 |
kanzure_ | but yes, the smart way to do it would be custom-made PCBs where you know what you have. | 16:04 |
gene | what you want to solder circuit kits with a robot? | 16:06 |
gene | speaking of which I might make one of these http://www.goldmine-elec-products.com/prodinfo.asp?number=C6897 | 16:09 |
gene | it's a bit expensive though | 16:10 |
gene | http://www.swtpc.com/mholley/PopularElectronics/Mar1963/PE_Mar1963.htm | 16:11 |
gene | heh | 16:11 |
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kanzure_ | fenn: I think we need a 'workspace object' for defining the constraints on what's being assembled, or instructed, or anything like that. | 16:36 |
kanzure_ | skdb.UnitError: 5 cm^2 | 16:54 |
kanzure_ | wtf? | 16:54 |
kanzure_ | running units in interactive mode tells me that it's ok to have '5 cm^2' | 16:55 |
kanzure_ | oh, is this your attempt at getting everyone to use standard units, fenn? | 17:06 |
fenn | no, it should work, i'm figuring out why it doesnt right now | 17:06 |
kanzure_ | are you getting the same error? | 17:09 |
fenn | yes | 17:09 |
fenn | it's barfing in the number recognition regex | 17:09 |
fenn | ([+-]?\d*\.?\d*([eE][+-]?\d+)?)?(\D*)$ | 17:10 |
fenn | huh. did I write that? :) | 17:10 |
kanzure_ | gene: SELECT * FROM `batter-stuff` WHERE material='barium-titanate powder' | 17:11 |
* kanzure_ ponders gene's SQL interface. | 17:11 | |
kanzure_ | *battery-stuff | 17:11 |
fenn | oh it's because the 2 in ^2 is a number | 17:12 |
kanzure_ | fenn, why don't we have a wizard app to help create regexps yet? | 17:12 |
fenn | and it wants (not-number) | 17:12 |
fenn | there is one, in kate | 17:12 |
kanzure_ | you mean ^H? | 17:12 |
fenn | and probably some standalone app too | 17:12 |
fenn | ^H? | 17:12 |
kanzure_ | erm, ^R | 17:12 |
kanzure_ | for the replace thingy | 17:12 |
fenn | yeah | 17:12 |
kanzure_ | that's just a list of some common things that people search for | 17:13 |
kanzure_ | it's a start.. | 17:13 |
kanzure_ | (I use it all the time, although it only takes a few times to remember ^ and $) | 17:13 |
fenn | so.. i was sort of going on the assumption that a unit was a number and then a bunch of strings | 17:14 |
fenn | i might just dump all the sanity checking stuff | 17:14 |
fenn | comment out this line to bypass the error: if match is None: raise UnitError, string | 17:16 |
kanzure_ | ok, setting up gitweb here. | 17:20 |
kanzure_ | can't remember. setting the $projectroot in gitweb.cgi to /path/to/skdb/master/ isn't quite right. in /path/to/ I did git-clone your skdb.git | 17:24 |
kanzure_ | I missed a step | 17:24 |
kanzure_ | http://www.loria.fr/~molli/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Seegit2 not bad. | 17:40 |
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kanzure_ | fenn: http://70.113.54.112/cgi-bin/gitweb.cgi | 17:58 |
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gene_ | I can't get it | 18:38 |
kanzure_ | gene_: ? | 18:42 |
gene_ | your link has rotted | 18:42 |
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kanzure_ | hrm | 18:50 |
kanzure_ | gene_: try now. | 18:52 |
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gene_ | what is the link to? | 19:00 |
kanzure_ | the skdb git repo | 19:10 |
kanzure_ | anyway, I'm reading through the case files that slashdot linked to | 19:10 |
kanzure_ | when they're asking the prospective jurors about file trading opinions, or if they have ever traded files, it's pretty sad | 19:10 |
kanzure_ | all of them say they've mostly used email | 19:11 |
kanzure_ | but then "nope, never traded files" | 19:11 |
kanzure_ | *BULLSHIT* | 19:11 |
gene_ | there are a lot of incomptent people out there | 19:24 |
gene_ | I'll give you 5 | 19:25 |
gene_ | I'll give you 5 bucks if you can figure out what is wrong with my laser driver | 19:26 |
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kanzure_ | fenn, would you comment on the repository changes I made, particularly recipe.py? | 20:42 |
gene | http://www.crabfu.com/steamtoys/steam_armatron/ | 20:54 |
gene | wow the armatron is quite the piece of engineering | 20:54 |
kanzure_ | haha the expressions on their faces. | 21:26 |
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gene | Kanzure tell me: how the heck does a potentiometer break? | 23:11 |
kanzure_ | I've busted a few by losing the soldering buds sort of. | 23:12 |
kanzure_ | Does that count? | 23:12 |
gene | no electrically | 23:14 |
gene | I got a pot that won't change it's resistance | 23:14 |
gene | must have got too hot I guess | 23:14 |
gene | http://twittypic.com/?p=475 | 23:24 |
bkero | gene: that can happen if you overpower the pot | 23:54 |
gene | I think I overheated it | 23:55 |
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