| --- Day changed Sat Jan 03 2009 | ||
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| ybit | kanzure_ sounds like a liberal arts tech degree might be the way for you | 01:21 |
|---|---|---|
| ybit | many liberal arts colleges offer degrees in comp.sci | 01:22 |
| ybit | some in neurosci | 01:22 |
| ybit | liberal arts schools which use only student evals* | 01:24 |
| ybit | (instead of grades) | 01:24 |
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| kanzure_ | ybit: UT isn't one of those :) | 07:58 |
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| kanzure_ | That's interesting, flickr throws a yahoo copyright on all videos | 10:20 |
| kanzure_ | http://patch-tracking.debian.net/patch/series/view/nautilus/2.24.2-1/20_open-with_install.patch | 10:30 |
| kanzure_ | neat, an open-with patch that searches for programs that open it in apt | 10:31 |
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| kanzure_ | https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/5890 Firefox has vertical tabbing again? | 10:59 |
| kanzure_ | ff crashes when trying to load 115 tabs at once. | 11:09 |
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| kanzure_ | Hi wrldpc, nsh, Peer. | 12:39 |
| wrldpc | heya | 12:39 |
| PeerInfinity | hi everyone :) | 12:41 |
| PeerInfinity | congratulations again on all the excellent work that you and the others here are doing :D | 12:41 |
| parodyoflanguage | Hello all. | 12:42 |
| kanzure_ | Hi parodyoflanguage. | 12:43 |
| kanzure_ | Oh look, a new person :-) | 12:43 |
| PeerInfinity | this is the first time I've seen parodyoflanguage speak :) | 12:44 |
| parodyoflanguage | Sort of. I've been corresponding with some of you on the mailing lists, but I haven't contributed much of anything. | 12:44 |
| kanzure_ | Secret identity? | 12:44 |
| parodyoflanguage | Kevin H | 12:44 |
| kanzure_ | ah, good to see you | 12:45 |
| parodyoflanguage | Question though, is the hplusroadmap ml dead? | 12:45 |
| PeerInfinity | heh, I still haven't even checked if there is a hplusroadmap website... | 12:45 |
| parodyoflanguage | Just a wiki. | 12:46 |
| PeerInfinity | I like wikis better than plain websites :) | 12:46 |
| parodyoflanguage | Advantage: more dynamic; disadvantage: uncertain representation of a project. | 12:47 |
| parodyoflanguage | The open manufacturing stuff sounds cool, I just don't know where everyone is. | 12:47 |
| parodyoflanguage | Is it just at the "idea" stage at this point, or are people actually manufacturing things. | 12:48 |
| parodyoflanguage | Anyone seen this? http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/01/02/2330237 | 12:53 |
| PeerInfinity | yay for FOSS :D | 12:59 |
| parodyoflanguage | Yep. | 13:00 |
| parodyoflanguage | And then just think if FOSS wasn't here right now. The recession would be worse than it would have been otherwise. | 13:00 |
| parodyoflanguage | Proprietary software is actually an economic negative compared to FOSS. | 13:01 |
| parodyoflanguage | People don't understand that. | 13:01 |
| parodyoflanguage | Anyone know of any good space-exploration mailing lists? | 13:02 |
| PeerInfinity | and... the same is true for anything that has an open-source alternative? | 13:02 |
| parodyoflanguage | Depends if you're concerned about the well-being of the whole or of one of it's parts. | 13:03 |
| parodyoflanguage | E.g., OpenOffice.org is bad for Microsoft, but good for the economy as a whole. | 13:03 |
| PeerInfinity | heh, I tend to be more concerned about the well-being of the whole :) | 13:03 |
| parodyoflanguage | There you go. | 13:04 |
| PeerInfinity | sorry, but I don't know of any good space exploration mailing lists. | 13:04 |
| parodyoflanguage | I'm just in awe right now of all of the space missions that NASA et all have running right now. | 13:04 |
| parodyoflanguage | It's incredible if you have a Star Trek mindset. | 13:05 |
| parodyoflanguage | http://www.nasa.gov/missions/current/index.html | 13:05 |
| PeerInfinity | I'm still assuming that we won't get really serious about space exploration until we find a way to upgrade out of these meatbodies, and into an entirely digital mind, which can plug into a wide variety of bodies - biological, mechanical, or virtual :) | 13:06 |
| * PeerInfinity looks for that "canned primates" quote... | 13:06 | |
| PeerInfinity | found it :) | 13:07 |
| parodyoflanguage | Well, I'm on some of the transhumanist mailing lists. I find the ideas interesting, but I don't act like the future is already determined like most people on those lists do. | 13:07 |
| PeerInfinity | "NASA are idiots. They want to send canned primates to Mars!" Manfred swallows a mouthful of beer, aggressively plonks his glass on the table: "Mars is just dumb mass at the bottom of a gravity well; there isn't even a biosphere there. They should be working on uploading and solving the nanoassembly conformational problem instead. Then we could turn all the available dumb matter into computronium and use it for processing | 13:07 |
| PeerInfinity | oops, maybe I should split that up into separate lines... | 13:07 |
| parodyoflanguage | PeerInfinity: Hmm, I think that kind of thinking is misguided. | 13:08 |
| PeerInfinity | "NASA are idiots. They want to send canned primates to Mars!" Manfred swallows a mouthful of beer, aggressively plonks his glass on the table: | 13:08 |
| PeerInfinity | "Mars is just dumb mass at the bottom of a gravity well; there isn't even a biosphere there. They should be working on uploading and solving the nanoassembly conformational problem instead. | 13:08 |
| PeerInfinity | Then we could turn all the available dumb matter into computronium and use it for processing our thoughts. Long-term, it's the only way to go. The solar system is a dead loss right now – dumb all over! | 13:08 |
| parodyoflanguage | The suggestion, in general, is that if move resources spread out into multiple areas into a single area, that progress in that single area would increase. | 13:08 |
| PeerInfinity | Just measure the MIPS per milligram. If it isn't thinking, it isn't working. We need to start with the low-mass bodies, reconfigure them for our own use. | 13:08 |
| PeerInfinity | Dismantle the moon! Dismantle Mars! Build masses of free-flying nanocomputing processor nodes exchanging data via laser link, each layer running off the waste heat of the next one in. Matrioshka brains, Russian doll Dyson spheres the size of solar systems. | 13:08 |
| PeerInfinity | Teach dumb matter to do the Turing boogie!" | 13:08 |
| PeerInfinity | ok, I guess that's enough chat spam for now :P | 13:09 |
| parodyoflanguage | I think we make the most progress if we divide resources for as many viable space projects as possible. | 13:09 |
| parodyoflanguage | NASA Admin Griffin's ultimate goal is space habitation. It's neat that such a goal exists for the highest man at NASA. But Griffin is probably on his way out. | 13:10 |
| parodyoflanguage | But he's the one who has been favoring manned space missions over unmanned. | 13:11 |
| PeerInfinity | and yes, I am well aware that the future is not at all determined yet. There is an extremely wide range of possible scenarios for the future, and all sorts of things that could go wrong, preventing us from reaching any of these transhuman fantasy scenarios that everyone seems to enjoy talking about... | 13:11 |
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| parodyoflanguage | At the same time, we still have plenty of unmanned missions, but I think there are some critical ones that are being dropped. | 13:11 |
| PeerInfinity | have you seen this page yet: http://cosmeng.org/publicwiki/index.php/P2P_Space_Agency | 13:12 |
| parodyoflanguage | PeerInfinity: Right. Like the singularity. If we're the catalyst for the singularity, as most seem to believe, then it depends ultimately on what we do. If we die off in the next twenty years, no catalyst. | 13:12 |
| parodyoflanguage | No. Let me look. | 13:12 |
| PeerInfinity | though there's probably nothing there that you haven't heard of before... | 13:13 |
| parodyoflanguage | For example, I think we *really* need to test run the deflection of a near earth asteroid to prove it's a viable technology. But that project has been scrapped due to lack of funding. | 13:13 |
| PeerInfinity | :( | 13:14 |
| parodyoflanguage | Yeah, I'm not sure if another space advocacy group is what is needed right now. | 13:15 |
| parodyoflanguage | bbiaw | 13:16 |
| PeerInfinity | I think they were hoping to not just be an advocacy group, but to actually do some of the research, and develop some of the technology themselves... | 13:16 |
| PeerInfinity | now I'm going afk too for a while... | 13:17 |
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| parodyoflanguage | Yeah, I don't know. | 13:27 |
| parodyoflanguage | I mean, if you want to develop some of the technology, people should go ahead and just do it. | 13:27 |
| parodyoflanguage | Use BRL-CAD and propose designs. | 13:28 |
| parodyoflanguage | I think that's what OpenVirgle hopes to do, but so far I think they're just talking. | 13:28 |
| parodyoflanguage | http://moonmineralogymapper.jpl.nasa.gov/ | 13:30 |
| parodyoflanguage | There's a mission to watch if you're interested in lunar colonization. This instrument is producing a high-resolution mineral map of the moon. | 13:30 |
| parodyoflanguage | Of the *entire* moon. | 13:31 |
| parodyoflanguage | They've already demonstrated a rover that injests lunar-like soil and produces oxygen. | 13:34 |
| parodyoflanguage | Ideally, they'll send a team of rovers to the moon first to stock up on oxygen supplies before they send astronauts. | 13:34 |
| gene | peerinfinity I think NASA should put Advanced Automation for Space Missions into action, IE, build a self-replicating lunar factory | 13:38 |
| PeerInfinity | wow... | 13:38 |
| gene | heck we could cover the moon in Casinoes if we wanted to with replicating factories | 13:39 |
| gene | the mission might pay for itself | 13:39 |
| PeerInfinity | heh... | 13:39 |
| parodyoflanguage | gene: They've been developing self-autonomous robots for quite some time now. | 13:39 |
| gene | yeah I know that | 13:40 |
| parodyoflanguage | Each probe advances on the last. | 13:40 |
| gene | with lunar replicators dumber is better | 13:40 |
| gene | not because of them rebelling against you but because it's hard to make high end chips in space | 13:40 |
| gene | not to mention older chips are more radiation resistant | 13:41 |
| parodyoflanguage | Well, you're also limited by the resources available on the moon. | 13:42 |
| gene | fluorine is currently the replication limiting element up there | 13:43 |
| parodyoflanguage | Deep Space 1 was a demonstration of space navigation AI: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_Space_1#Remote_Agent | 13:43 |
| gene | cool can you do it on 1970s era hardware? | 13:43 |
| parodyoflanguage | Do what? | 13:44 |
| gene | AI like that | 13:44 |
| parodyoflanguage | I don't know. | 13:44 |
| parodyoflanguage | Here's the thing; we haven't even demonstrated robotic self-replication on earth. | 13:44 |
| parodyoflanguage | The moon has far fewer resources than we have on Earth. | 13:45 |
| gene | it's easier to do on the Moon in some ways | 13:46 |
| gene | 1. there's a vacuum | 13:46 |
| parodyoflanguage | The only advantage the moon has is that it recieves greater solar energy during the day. | 13:46 |
| gene | 2. you don't have biomass in the way | 13:46 |
| parodyoflanguage | Well, yeah, there's no weather, corrosion due to moisture, etc. | 13:47 |
| gene | yeah that too | 13:48 |
| gene | autonomous self replication has been achieved | 13:48 |
| gene | but not to the extent it can reproduce in the real world | 13:49 |
| parodyoflanguage | Example of achieved autonomous self-replication? | 13:49 |
| parodyoflanguage | Don't say reprap. | 13:49 |
| gene | not saying reprap | 13:50 |
| parodyoflanguage | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geology_of_the_Moon | 13:51 |
| parodyoflanguage | That's what you have to work with. | 13:51 |
| gene | http://www.molecularassembler.com/KSRM/3.23.4.htm | 13:51 |
| parodyoflanguage | Also, be careful when they talk about "elemental composition", then they say oxygen I'm sure they mean oxides, not solidified O2. | 13:52 |
| gene | http://www.molecularassembler.com/KSRM/3.16.htm | 13:53 |
| gene | yeah I know that | 13:53 |
| gene | but if you heat it up with focused light or a solar pumped laser you can get the oxygen out | 13:53 |
| parodyoflanguage | Cool, thanks for linking to those. | 13:54 |
| gene | on the second link, Charles Collins allegedly built a working replicator, but I'm a bit suspicious | 13:55 |
| parodyoflanguage | Lunar replicators sounds like a great idea, though I have no idea if NASA is working on it. | 13:55 |
| gene | http://www.molecularassembler.com/KSRM/3.18.htm | 13:56 |
| gene | they did | 13:56 |
| gene | in the 80s | 13:56 |
| gene | http://www.islandone.org/MMSG/aasm/ | 13:56 |
| parodyoflanguage | But NASA is incredible in that, besides the major missions, it is actively researching just about anything you can imagine, and only the cream of the crop turns into active missions. | 13:56 |
| parodyoflanguage | Yeah, another project whose funding was cut | 13:59 |
| parodyoflanguage | But it could have been for feasability reasons. | 14:00 |
| gene | interestingly Carter ordered the study | 14:00 |
| parodyoflanguage | I need to brush up on my chemistry. Just working all the time... | 14:00 |
| gene | well the basic idea is dissolve rocks with HF | 14:01 |
| gene | and seperate everything out | 14:01 |
| parodyoflanguage | HF? | 14:01 |
| gene | hydrofluoric acid | 14:03 |
| gene | hence the reason for fluorine being the replication limiting element | 14:03 |
| parodyoflanguage | Ah | 14:04 |
| parodyoflanguage | Well, I'm sure there will be stuff that will need to shipped out. | 14:04 |
| parodyoflanguage | There isn't any other acid that will do the job? | 14:05 |
| gene | you only need to ship it out if you want a faster replication rate | 14:07 |
| gene | current estimated replication rate for the factory is like a year for something the size of a city, pretty good if you ask me | 14:08 |
| gene | not really | 14:08 |
| parodyoflanguage | Using solar energy or nuclear? | 14:10 |
| gene | solar of course | 14:11 |
| parodyoflanguage | Okay :) | 14:11 |
| parodyoflanguage | Well, nuclear energy is viable on the moon as well, but we'd have to import the fuel. | 14:12 |
| parodyoflanguage | (There's the possibility that there may be uranium on the moon, but something tells me that processing it would be more trouble than it's worth.) | 14:13 |
| parodyoflanguage | Anyway, I don't know that much about lunar colonization. I just think it's cool :) | 14:16 |
| gene | or build 3000 centrifuges | 14:17 |
| parodyoflanguage | centrifuges for what? | 14:20 |
| parodyoflanguage | Oh, for separating out the elements. | 14:20 |
| gene | uranium hexafluoride | 14:20 |
| parodyoflanguage | Hmm. | 14:21 |
| parodyoflanguage | Hey, check out http://climate.jpl.nasa.gov/. You'll see a rotating earth in the upper-right hand corner. Then hover your mouse over the blocks below it titled "vital signs". It's a pretty cool effect. | 14:22 |
| parodyoflanguage | I like things like this that are both cool looking and informational. | 14:22 |
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| parodyoflanguage | Okay, I'm going to do some studying then I have to go to work. Thanks for the conversation. | 14:25 |
| * kanzure_ comes back from the dead, reads backlogs | 14:29 | |
| kanzure_ | parodyoflanguage: The hplusroadmap mailing list is dead until I can find a new relayhost. | 14:29 |
| kanzure_ | parodyoflanguage: Yes, people are manufacturing things. Look up 'fablab'. | 14:30 |
| kanzure_ | space exploration mailing lists - see http://heybryan.org/mailing_lists.html most recently openvirgle.net, which is just the open manufacturing guys | 14:30 |
| kanzure_ | also, the best rocket mailing list is arocket on the exrocketry server; has people like Henry Spencer, John Carmack and others | 14:31 |
| kanzure_ | thanks for http://moonmineralogymapper.jpl.nasa.gov/ | 14:32 |
| parodyoflanguage | Thanks | 14:32 |
| parodyoflanguage | Says your [Space] folder is omitted. | 14:33 |
| gene | anyone know how I can generate the tooth profile for a rack for a given gear | 14:37 |
| kanzure_ | parodyoflanguage: arocket is the only list you truly need. | 14:39 |
| kanzure_ | The yahoo groups suck. | 14:39 |
| gene | http://www.popsci.com/node/30516 | 14:40 |
| parodyoflanguage | Well, I'm not into, and don't have the knowledge/$$$ for amateur rocketry right now. Are current space missions on topic there? | 14:40 |
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| gene | interesting new nuclear fusion concepts | 14:40 |
| parodyoflanguage | Heh, I bought that issue at the newsstand :) | 14:43 |
| parodyoflanguage | How come we can't test every possible fusion method in computer simulations? | 14:45 |
| parodyoflanguage | And just try the ones that work in simulation? | 14:45 |
| gene | do you know what plasma is? | 14:47 |
| parodyoflanguage | More or less. | 14:47 |
| gene | it's like fluid, but without a constant densitt | 14:48 |
| gene | y | 14:48 |
| parodyoflanguage | High energy, mostly ions/charged particles. | 14:48 |
| parodyoflanguage | Some considered a fourth phase above gas. | 14:48 |
| gene | it's hard to simulate | 14:49 |
| kanzure_ | http://70.113.54.112/downloads/manufacturingclips.zip (225 MB) | 14:49 |
| parodyoflanguage | Why? | 14:49 |
| kanzure_ | All of those clips are CC-SA licensed. | 14:49 |
| kanzure_ | todo: strip audio from all clips, segment the videos into useful subclips, then splice together | 14:50 |
| kanzure_ | and find something from ccmixter.org to go for background music (techno? electronica? dance? house? etc.) | 14:50 |
| * kanzure_ needed a break from everything else, so did that. | 14:50 | |
| gene | because the density changes | 14:51 |
| gene | background music here's some good stuff | 14:51 |
| kanzure_ | points if you can name the proper varient of Navier-Stokes used to do plasma simulations | 14:51 |
| kanzure_ | gene: you know those videos from the 80s that manufacturers/design-firms released? | 14:51 |
| gene | http://eye.swfchan.com/flash.asp?id=44419&n=vip.swf&w=320&h=260 | 14:51 |
| gene | no | 14:52 |
| kanzure_ | they'd just use some techno and mesmorizing video of their robotic arms | 14:52 |
| gene | heh | 14:52 |
| gene | try the link it's good video game music | 14:52 |
| kanzure_ | ah, yeah, I have a lot of 8 bit video game music | 14:52 |
| kanzure_ | http://heybryan.org/books/Manufacturing/videos/ | 14:52 |
| kanzure_ | ^ some of those videos from the 80s | 14:52 |
| gene | cool do you have what's on that playlist? | 14:52 |
| kanzure_ | they are better than some of the CC-licensed stuff, but that's only because they had real equipment to look at | 14:53 |
| kanzure_ | maybe, I can't check right now | 14:53 |
| gene | I would like to get the MP3s to that playlist | 14:53 |
| kanzure_ | I technically don't have a playlist | 14:53 |
| gene | I am talking about this: http://eye.swfchan.com/flash.asp?id=44419&n=vip.swf&w=320&h=260 | 14:53 |
| parodyoflanguage | I just think that everything can be simulated, and maybe that's where something like a semiotic model is needed. We need to rely on computers to do more and more of our thinking for us. | 14:53 |
| gene | I think the purpose of ITER and other fusion things is to show if the simulations work | 14:54 |
| parodyoflanguage | Yeah. | 14:54 |
| parodyoflanguage | Well, I hope ITER works. | 14:55 |
| kanzure_ | What I most want for background music is Ramin Djawadi. | 14:57 |
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| gene | how about randomely generated numbers? or the human genome put to music? | 14:58 |
| kanzure_ | why though | 14:59 |
| kanzure_ | hm, the montech video is a good example of techno + manufacturing | 14:59 |
| kanzure_ | in the /books/ link above | 14:59 |
| gene | why not? | 15:00 |
| kanzure_ | have you ever listened to randomly generated music?? | 15:00 |
| kanzure_ | I've converted the Bible into pcspkr beeps before | 15:00 |
| kanzure_ | it's pretty terrible. | 15:00 |
| gene | you have? | 15:01 |
| gene | really? | 15:01 |
| kanzure_ | yes. | 15:01 |
| gene | can I listen to it? | 15:01 |
| kanzure_ | no, but I might be able to dig up the .c file for you to compile | 15:01 |
| gene | heh | 15:01 |
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| kanzure_ | it was a dump to the pcspkr, not to the audio device | 15:02 |
| kanzure_ | so in other words, if you don't have an internal beeper, it wouldn't work | 15:02 |
| gene | can you make some sort of semi-real sounding prophecy generating program with the bible as an input so you can write a conspiracy theory book or something? | 15:03 |
| kanzure_ | in other words a schizophrenia emulator? | 15:03 |
| gene | that would make profit | 15:03 |
| kanzure_ | not sure :) | 15:03 |
| gene | people will believe it, I guarantee it | 15:03 |
| wrldpc | LOL | 15:04 |
| gene | if people believe eating coral will cure cancer and AIDS then they'll probably believe a bible deciphering algorithm from some sciency sounding person | 15:05 |
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| gene | though I could never live with doing something like that | 15:05 |
| gene | maybe only as a joke though... | 15:06 |
| gene | so how did your bible beep generator work? | 15:08 |
| kanzure_ | each character was assigned a frequency | 15:10 |
| kanzure_ | starting from 200 and increments of 20 hertz | 15:10 |
| kanzure_ | in the order in which they appear in the ASCII table. | 15:10 |
| gene | oh ok | 15:10 |
| kanzure_ | downloaded the Good Book from Gutenberg | 15:11 |
| gene | the whole damn bible? | 15:11 |
| kanzure_ | well I didn't listen to it for long | 15:11 |
| kanzure_ | it was really terrible | 15:11 |
| gene | well you should find someway to compress it | 15:11 |
| kanzure_ | to compress what? | 15:11 |
| kanzure_ | I don't think you understand how bad the sound was heh' | 15:12 |
| gene | the whole thing | 15:12 |
| gene | squish all the sounds together so it's a minute long | 15:12 |
| kanzure_ | http://search.cpan.org/~giulienk/Audio-Beep-0.11/Beep.pod | 15:13 |
| kanzure_ | There you go .. you're halfway there to copying my program heh' | 15:13 |
| kanzure_ | next step: write a 'beep-for-word' function that takes a char, converts to an int and then multiply by some constant and pass to the frequency/beep method described on that page | 15:14 |
| gene | well if you compress it down and claim to hear a message in it, it could be profitable | 15:14 |
| kanzure_ | use Audio::Beep; beep($freq, 100); | 15:14 |
| kanzure_ | profitable? | 15:14 |
| gene | yeah | 15:14 |
| gene | RESEARCHER'S SHOCKING NEW REVELATION, BIBLE WHEN COMPRESSED INTO AN MP3 CONTAINS SAYS TO DRINK COCA COLA | 15:16 |
| gene | humans are very good at finding patterns in random noise | 15:16 |
| gene | if anything it'd be quit funny | 15:17 |
| gene | wonder if the bible is a good source of randomness | 15:18 |
| parodyoflanguage | Good source of divinely inspired randomness. | 15:21 |
| gene | it probably isn't as it does exhibit similarity to other works of literature | 15:21 |
| parodyoflanguage | Pricy: http://store02.prostores.com/servlet/kobask8/Categories?category=Fab%40Home | 15:31 |
| parodyoflanguage | And you can only build out of gooey, liquidish materials: http://www.fabathome.org/wiki/index.php?title=Fab%40Home:Support#What_materials_can_be_used_with_a_Model_1.3F | 15:33 |
| parodyoflanguage | Eh, gotta go to work. | 15:34 |
| kanzure_ | Work is for slackers | 15:45 |
| kanzure_ | oh wait | 15:45 |
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| kanzure_ | Hi samrose. | 15:53 |
| kanzure_ | http://70.113.54.112/downloads/manufacturingclips.zip (225 MB) | 15:53 |
| kanzure_ | Creative-commons licensed manufacturing video | 15:54 |
| samrose | hey, will be back in a few hours | 15:54 |
| kanzure_ | to be spliced into a Koyanisqatsqi-like video | 15:54 |
| samrose | downloaded, and will check out | 15:54 |
| --- Log closed Sat Jan 03 16:07:37 2009 | ||
| --- Log opened Sat Jan 03 16:27:36 2009 | ||
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| kanzure_ | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3N0kWzC6jmE&feature=related Lecture - 2 Architecture of Industrial Automation Systems | 16:56 |
| kanzure_ | hm, there's about 20 lectures uploaded | 16:56 |
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| kanzure_ | http://singinst.org/media/singularitysummit2008 videos | 17:25 |
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| kanzure_ | " | 18:22 |
| kanzure_ | Back in February 2000, a number of world-class manufacturers, including General Mills, Hershey, Nabisco and Procter & Gamble, formed the OMAC Packaging Workgroup (OPW) with a vision of developing the necessary standards to achieve a plug-and-play packaging system. They named this vision Connect-and-Pack. At the time, packaging line integration was both costly and time-consuming to achieve. Some of the network standards were not meeting manufacturers’ needs, and there was no standard packaging language." | 18:22 |
| kanzure_ | " | 18:23 |
| kanzure_ | The OPW developed PackML, a standard packaging language, and PackTags, a common set of associated tagnames. PackML and PackTags were approved by the ISA-88 committee as following the ISA-88 standards in a technical report that was approved in June 2008." | 18:23 |
| kanzure_ | http://www.isa.org/Content/Microsites1158/OMAC-Packaging_PackML_Sub_Team/Home1058/PackML_Definition_Document_V3.0_Final.doc | 18:23 |
| kanzure_ | http://74.125.45.132/search?q=cache:rsZfglRezksJ:www.isa.org/Content/Microsites1158/OMAC-Packaging_PackML_Sub_Team/Home1058/PackML_Definition_Document_V3.0_Final.doc+PackML&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us&client=opera | 18:23 |
| kanzure_ | http://www.controldesign.com/articles/2008/MachineDesign21stCentury0812.html?page=2 is the article telling me about PackML | 18:24 |
| kanzure_ | http://www.omac.org/Content/NavigationMenu/General_Information/Partners_and_Affiliates/OMAC1/Working_Groups/Packaging/Packaging.htm | 18:25 |
| kanzure_ | http://www.omac.org/MSTemplate.cfm?MicrositeID=1156&CommitteeID=6913 | 18:26 |
| kanzure_ | hm, "PackConnect" ' | 18:26 |
| kanzure_ | Define the control architecture platforms and connectivity requirements for packaging automation systems.' | 18:26 |
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| kanzure_ | http://www.turkcadcam.net/rapor/autofab/tech-deposition-spraying.html <- interesting resource | 18:51 |
| kanzure_ | intro page: http://www.turkcadcam.net/rapor/autofab/ | 18:51 |
| kanzure_ | http://www.madeforone.com/Articles/index.php/news/designer-publishes-cad-files-of-lighting-designs-under-creative-commons/ | 18:52 |
| kanzure_ | " | 18:53 |
| kanzure_ | Ronen Kadushin, a lecturer in furniture design at the Shenkar School of Engineering and Design in Israel, has published a collection of lighting and accessories, which is one of the first examples of product designs being made available under the principles of ‘Open Design’." | 18:53 |
| kanzure_ | http://www.ronen-kadushin.com/open_design.asp | 18:53 |
| * nsh fears he is not of the constitution that is able to become excited over furniture | 18:53 | |
| kanzure_ | sir, you will be excited by couch or face the terrific consequences. | 19:01 |
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| gene | Koyanissqatsqi? | 19:12 |
| gene | what/who is that? | 19:12 |
| willPow3r_ | http://letmegooglethatforyou.com/?q=Koyaanisqatsi | 19:14 |
| kanzure_ | gene: check out the 'Anima Mundi' link in the email first | 19:16 |
| kanzure_ | that has a video link | 19:16 |
| kanzure_ | Koyaanisqatsi is hard to obtain over the net in good quality, though I can hand you off a copy of the DVD or something when I get back to the dorm | 19:17 |
| gene | shit | 19:17 |
| gene | facepalm | 19:17 |
| kanzure_ | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PirH8PADDgQ the ad | 19:17 |
| kanzure_ | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOaemcoMrFI&feature=related | 19:23 |
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| kanzure_ | *page | 20:25 |
| kanzure_ | http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2009/01/msg00070.html <- some debian guys replying to my shell.html pager | 20:25 |
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| Splicer | ...wow, short topic | 21:06 |
| kanzure_ | Feel free to change it. gene set it :/ | 21:11 |
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| kanzure_ | Hi emlyno. | 22:01 |
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| gene_ | hello world | 22:03 |
| emlyno | Hi kanz, how is it | 22:03 |
| emlyno | hi gene, we haven't met formally, hello | 22:03 |
| gene_ | we need to construct additional pylons | 22:03 |
| gene_ | I believe we haven't | 22:03 |
| emlyno | I'll go get vespene while you work on those pylons | 22:04 |
| gene_ | well think about it | 22:04 |
| emlyno | you've just reminded me to see if I can get starcraft going on wine | 22:05 |
| gene_ | if we have the ability to construct pylons from ore on a planet you might have a self-replicating factory | 22:06 |
| emlyno | well, except that the ore isn't exactly sustainable | 22:07 |
| kanzure_ | I think the assumptions that we were looking for sustainability are kind of false. | 22:13 |
| kanzure_ | Frankly I see it as a more fractal boom-growth model thingy | 22:13 |
| kanzure_ | http://heybryan.org/fractal.html (you might remember this from extropy-chat) | 22:14 |
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| kanzure_ | Your sad devotion to that ancient religion has not helped you conjure | 22:18 |
| kanzure_ | up the stolen data tapes, or given you clairvoyance enough to find the | 22:18 |
| kanzure_ | Rebel's hidden fort. | 22:18 |
| kanzure_ | err, I mean, sustainability | 22:18 |
| Splicer | kanz.. your birthday today? | 22:18 |
| emlyno | oh yeah happy bday kanz (skype told me so it must be true) | 22:19 |
| kanzure_ | Another two hours until midnight, then yes. | 22:19 |
| kanzure_ | Thanks :-) | 22:19 |
| Splicer | hehe.. premature congratulations then | 22:20 |
| kanzure_ | I'm so damn old. | 22:20 |
| Splicer | extremely | 22:20 |
| emlyno | old lol | 22:21 |
| emlyno | so rather than sustainability (on a planetary scale), you think let's use everything we can get our hands on and boost ourselves into a space-faring civilization? | 22:23 |
| emlyno | if so, count me in :-) | 22:24 |
| kanzure_ | I think that trying to reign in everything on a planetary scale is not something that I am capable of doing, or everyone else for that matter. | 22:24 |
| kanzure_ | it would be nice to make some tools to make sure you don't fuck up your future projects though | 22:24 |
| emlyno | oh sure, it's good to be able to be "sustainable" when you need to be | 22:24 |
| kanzure_ | "So does anyone else think it's sad that BOINC is the best we can do here?" | 22:25 |
| kanzure_ | *argh* | 22:25 |
| kanzure_ | Two other things from that thread that striked me as stupid | 22:25 |
| kanzure_ | - recently I've seen a growing trend of "let's just hire a firm or invest in **other people**" | 22:25 |
| emlyno | but if I really think about it, I believe that more people is always better, so either we all shrink down into virtual worlds, or get off planet | 22:25 |
| kanzure_ | and then also in that thread "oh, we'll just go get some funding and give it to a private development firm to work on our technologies for us" | 22:26 |
| kanzure_ | *cries* | 22:26 |
| kanzure_ | Yes, that would be nice. | 22:26 |
| emlyno | Well, if they weren't such blowhards, I'd be thinking about how to start that firm :-) | 22:26 |
| kanzure_ | I've come across so many proposals for startups, even in this channel I think | 22:26 |
| emlyno | haven't read that thread yet, hang on | 22:26 |
| kanzure_ | though nothing ever really materializez | 22:27 |
| kanzure_ | *materializes | 22:27 |
| kanzure_ | What I (and those 'startups') need most is a 'personal manager' | 22:27 |
| emlyno | Every plan that starts with "1 - get money, 2- do something" sucks | 22:27 |
| emlyno | What would your personal manager do? | 22:27 |
| kanzure_ | if I knew that, I'd be doing something different already | 22:28 |
| kanzure_ | I'm not good asking for money, and I'm not good pretending I like it | 22:28 |
| kanzure_ | Among other things. | 22:29 |
| emlyno | "So does anyone else think it's sad that BOINC is the best we can do here?" <- is that from somewhere? | 22:29 |
| emlyno | Yeah me either | 22:29 |
| kanzure_ | that was a partial quote, sorry | 22:30 |
| kanzure_ | search for Samantha's post re: "sad" | 22:30 |
| emlyno | The thing is, if the personal manager told you "Bryan! Do thing X!", wouldn't you just tell them to bugger off? | 22:30 |
| kanzure_ | No, I mean outward manager ;-) | 22:30 |
| kanzure_ | inward management I can do. | 22:30 |
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| emlyno | Yeah I meant outward manager too | 22:31 |
| kanzure_ | <-- has the ability to apply copious amounts of attention, time and thought to just about anything if he gets around to it. | 22:31 |
| emlyno | I can't see any posts by Samantha re: Boinc, maybe haven't been sent it yet? | 22:32 |
| kanzure_ | I think famous actors have 'managers' that do all of their business bullshit | 22:32 |
| kanzure_ | emlyno: I said re: sad, not re: boinc. | 22:32 |
| emlyno | k | 22:32 |
| kanzure_ | btw, reading the debian-devel emails from earlier today is slightly re: recipe representation. | 22:33 |
| emlyno | A lot of the folk on exi are baby boomers, btw; they don't understand thinking about just doing something, with no money involved | 22:33 |
| kanzure_ | http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2009/01/msg00070.html | 22:33 |
| kanzure_ | hm. | 22:33 |
| emlyno | libertarian boomers at that :-) | 22:34 |
| kanzure_ | Maybe that's why I'm so confused about them just sitting around. | 22:34 |
| kanzure_ | to me, that mindset doesn't make any sense | 22:34 |
| kanzure_ | I've had an immune system reaction to all things money most of my life. | 22:34 |
| emlyno | It's not a doers list, it's a cheerleading list | 22:35 |
| emlyno | you need some of those too :-) | 22:35 |
| emlyno | although some of them do stuff which they don't talk about onlist, | 22:35 |
| emlyno | but mostly in the context of heavily NDA riddled startups | 22:36 |
| kanzure_ | yawn | 22:36 |
| emlyno | Yes, same with me re: money. | 22:36 |
| kanzure_ | I'm practically already a design firm kinda, just don't do the business part | 22:36 |
| emlyno | Well, I assume you feel the way I do about it; you just do the work and get it out there, use licensing to make sure no one can lock it up | 22:37 |
| kanzure_ | well, sort of. The immune reaction has also included copyright issues ;-) | 22:37 |
| kanzure_ | it's kind of like security: you know you should be pgp signing all of your emails, but you don't | 22:37 |
| kanzure_ | Anyway, just a behavior thing that can be modified. | 22:37 |
| emlyno | All the techy people I know are the same; we all openly or secretly hate the licensing shit | 22:38 |
| emlyno | managers that do all that business shit - that'd be very cool to sort out | 22:39 |
| Splicer | time to sleep | 22:39 |
| kanzure_ | Night Splicer. | 22:39 |
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| emlyno | unfortunately managers currently sit higher in the social order than techies | 22:39 |
| emlyno | so they think "I must get a techie to sort out how to do things, so I can make money" | 22:39 |
| kanzure_ | what do they call those people for actors? Their 'agents'? | 22:39 |
| emlyno | Agents, yes | 22:40 |
| kanzure_ | acting agencies? that's what they call the firms, but not the people employed | 22:40 |
| emlyno | Can also be managers, | 22:40 |
| emlyno | sometimes separate people | 22:40 |
| kanzure_ | I need an acting agency for open source voodoo magic. | 22:40 |
| emlyno | because agents have their own agenda | 22:40 |
| kanzure_ | hm, a few results for "open source talent agency" | 22:41 |
| kanzure_ | http://www.thespot4sap.com/SAP-XI/re-142172_Can-open-source-sustain-a-talent-agency.aspx | 22:41 |
| willPow3r_ | kanzure_, i think miss cleo is unemployed at the moment | 22:41 |
| emlyno | It'd be good to have some kind of recipe for how to do open source and still be able to live and have enough resources to get pants and computers | 22:41 |
| kanzure_ | willPow3r_: Who? | 22:41 |
| willPow3r_ | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miss_Cleo | 22:42 |
| kanzure_ | emlyno: A friend of mine is checking into a paid F/OSS position, possibly with drupal, OLPC, Wikipedia. | 22:42 |
| kanzure_ | so this is exciting ;-) | 22:42 |
| emlyno | If you get that, I'll be jealous :-) | 22:42 |
| kanzure_ | yes yes | 22:42 |
| emlyno | good luck! | 22:42 |
| kanzure_ | it turns out that I might actually stay in school through some lease contract details (yay) | 22:42 |
| kanzure_ | but if that job actually turns into reality | 22:42 |
| kanzure_ | I'll have to actually consider that | 22:43 |
| kanzure_ | maybe they call this agent thing 'a woman' or 'wife'. hrm. peculiar terminology. | 22:47 |
| emlyno | I'm so glad my wife's not reading this :-) | 22:48 |
| emlyno | She'd say "sounds about right" | 22:48 |
| kanzure_ | "for the first time, wives became distinct legal entities, and were allowed their own property and allowed to sue. " | 22:48 |
| emlyno | Hey I had an interesting idea yesterday, btw | 22:51 |
| kanzure_ | ? | 22:52 |
| emlyno | I was thinking of building a reprap, just for laffs, you know, but I don't really have the skills, it'd be a struggle | 22:52 |
| emlyno | I'm thinking of getting all the parts and instructions and stuff together, and putting together a fairly solid web cam setup in my shed, | 22:53 |
| emlyno | and speakers and mike and stuff, | 22:53 |
| emlyno | then having an online "event" to put it together, where anyone who's interested can cruise in and watch & talk, | 22:54 |
| kanzure_ | http://ustream.tv/ | 22:54 |
| emlyno | and I can largely be the flesh robot | 22:54 |
| emlyno | (and send people little fabbed doohickeys by way of thanks) | 22:55 |
| emlyno | http://ustream.tv/ <-- nice yes indeed | 22:55 |
| emlyno | do you think that might work? | 22:56 |
| kanzure_ | I'm not sure I remember seeing if anybody has bothered to do a full writeup of where to put all the money to get all the parts and tools delivered | 22:56 |
| kanzure_ | many builders just kind of make stuff without realizing how much they know | 22:56 |
| kanzure_ | so they leave a lot unmentioned | 22:57 |
| emlyno | you mean re: reprap? | 22:57 |
| kanzure_ | yes | 22:57 |
| kanzure_ | and many other things | 22:57 |
| kanzure_ | Anyway, I might just be having a stroke and forgetting some good links | 22:58 |
| kanzure_ | gene and fenn will know :) | 22:58 |
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| kanzure_ | Tonight's my only night for anime on the television channels, so I'm going to go fetch some goodness | 22:58 |
| emlyno | it looks like there's a lot of stuff on reprap.org for just buying everything required. | 22:59 |
| kanzure_ | ah tgood | 22:59 |
| kanzure_ | *good | 22:59 |
| kanzure_ | Also, if you appeal to OM, the fab lab operators might be interested in making you parts | 22:59 |
| emlyno | http://parts.reprap.org/ | 22:59 |
| kanzure_ | neat little page they have there | 23:00 |
| kanzure_ | standardization? | 23:00 |
| emlyno | yeah actually as I dig further, can't see anyone actually willing to sell you a "boxed diy kit" | 23:01 |
| emlyno | I know they had a company selling them at one point, might not have been super profitable :-) | 23:01 |
| kanzure_ | what's the namespace for these part numbers | 23:02 |
| emlyno | I thought you didn't like namespaces :-) | 23:03 |
| emlyno | http://www.bitsfrombytes.com/ | 23:03 |
| kanzure_ | I don't, but making up bullshit is even worse | 23:03 |
| gene_ | whoa, meat puppets? | 23:03 |
| emlyno | I prefer the term "biologically abled automaton" | 23:04 |
| emlyno | I'm fairly sure when they used to sell a whole kit, it was in the vicinity of $1000, | 23:06 |
| emlyno | which I can probably manage sometime this year | 23:06 |
| emlyno | kanzure, did you ever find out more about that alternative to the namespace thing that you were hinting at? | 23:07 |
| emlyno | and, I still can't find that thread you were talking about earlier... I was assuming it was on exi-chat, is that right? | 23:14 |
| emlyno | heading out for snacks, back later :-) | 23:16 |
| willPow3r_ | https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/1122 | 23:28 |
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| kanzure_ | no, it was cosmic-engineers | 23:52 |
| gene_ | wait emlyno you're a reprapper? | 23:52 |
| gene_ | kanzure I did tell you that Wood might make me a full set of reprap parts, right? | 23:53 |
| kanzure_ | you said he might but then nothing ever happened | 23:53 |
| gene_ | I'm not back at the university yet, am I? | 23:53 |
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