| --- Day changed Thu Mar 05 2009 | ||
| -!- freedom__ [n=freedom@195.216.210.243] has joined #hplusroadmap | 00:32 | |
| -!- ybit [n=heath@unaffiliated/ybit] has quit [Remote closed the connection] | 01:40 | |
| -!- ybit [n=heath@unaffiliated/ybit] has joined #hplusroadmap | 01:42 | |
| -!- wrldpc [n=worldpea@173.48.207.37] has joined #hplusroadmap | 03:37 | |
| -!- freedom__ is now known as Phreedom | 03:59 | |
| -!- Phreedom [n=freedom@195.216.210.243] has quit [Remote closed the connection] | 04:10 | |
| -!- elias` [n=me@unaffiliated/elias/x-342423] has joined #hplusroadmap | 04:20 | |
| kanzure | http://www.dna-rainbow.org:8000/dna-radio.mp3.m3u <-- why did this make slashdot. | 08:11 |
|---|---|---|
| -!- samrose [n=samrose@mi-beaco-rtr-16-59.synergydsl.com] has joined #hplusroadmap | 10:08 | |
| fenn | microthermal whatsit actuator paper is 162 pages - don't tell me to read all of it, what should i be looking at? | 10:25 |
| fenn | oh i see it's like optical tweezers but low tech | 10:32 |
| fenn | so that should be fairly simple to make with standard circuit etching techniques | 10:34 |
| fenn | not that i have any idea what to do with it | 10:35 |
| fenn | PCR i guess | 10:35 |
| fenn | it would be interesting to move bits of melted wax around and let them solidify, as a 3d printer mechanism | 10:37 |
| fenn | or some kind of two part epoxy | 10:37 |
| fenn | i like the grid idea where they move individual droplets around better than the channel ideas | 10:41 |
| fenn | seems like it would be faster at smaller scales and higher gravity (in a centrifuge) | 10:47 |
| fenn | 20 seconds per move is too long | 10:47 |
| kanzure | fenn: one of the appendices has the diagrams or something. so, near the end. there's a paragraph that effectively describes it. | 11:03 |
| fenn | "it's kind of like virtualization" isn't going to help a non-programmer | 11:04 |
| kanzure | none of my explanations are | 11:04 |
| kanzure | I should have just done a linkdump | 11:04 |
| fenn | you should have just kept your trap shut :) | 11:05 |
| kanzure | is it that bad? | 11:05 |
| fenn | save those two emails and read it again in a month | 11:06 |
| kanzure | moving bits of solidifying wax around does sound like fun. | 11:06 |
| fenn | the neat part about that technique is it's massively parallel | 11:07 |
| fenn | the problem with digital rapid prototyping has been getting the resolution down because serial methods take so long | 11:07 |
| kanzure | also the whole "program a lab on a chip" and analogies to FPGAs blah blah blah | 11:07 |
| kanzure | oh, that would be a method of fabrication, that's true | 11:07 |
| fenn | "lab on a chip" is bullshit as far as i can tell | 11:07 |
| kanzure | (there was also a paper I came across recently talking about fabricating inside a microchannel, though I don't know why or what results they got) | 11:07 |
| fenn | i could believe "micropipettor on a chip" | 11:07 |
| kanzure | what do you think is bullshit about it? | 11:08 |
| kanzure | besides it being a buzzword | 11:08 |
| fenn | it's just pure hype | 11:08 |
| kanzure | what about people who have put individual lab tools on a chip? | 11:08 |
| fenn | i want to see experiments being done with them | 11:08 |
| fenn | nobody calls DNA arrays "lab on a chip" | 11:09 |
| kanzure | so, "select one experiment from a random biology journal recently, and run that on a standard 'lab on a chip' platform" ? | 11:09 |
| kanzure | hell, even an experiment from high school / college intro biology labs | 11:09 |
| fenn | or just do the experiment in a microfluidics environment in the first place.. which i dont see happening (i havent looked either) | 11:10 |
| kanzure | I've found that it is common for experiments to sometimes place new equipment demands on a researcher | 11:10 |
| kanzure | i.e., the lab doesn't have xyz | 11:10 |
| kanzure | fenn: wait, what? | 11:10 |
| fenn | if they are so cool and awesome how come nobody is using them | 11:10 |
| fenn | anything microfluidics | 11:11 |
| kanzure | I think you're asking "why don't I have one / why weren't they used in my bio labs" | 11:11 |
| kanzure | because I have not seen anything discussing adoption rates or lack thereof | 11:11 |
| kanzure | I'm sure the standard complaints are at play: IP bullshit, fabrication costs (hah), other crap. | 11:12 |
| fenn | the only "real" experiments on the front page of lab-on-a-chip.com are DNA microarrays | 11:12 |
| fenn | the rest is the same hype that's been around since 2000 | 11:13 |
| fenn | portable DNA analysis etc | 11:13 |
| kanzure | http://www.rsc.org/publishing/journals/LC/ | 11:13 |
| fenn | i guess that doesn't even mean anything | 11:13 |
| kanzure | hm. | 11:13 |
| kanzure | what about the in vitro protein expression experiments? | 11:16 |
| fenn | link | 11:17 |
| kanzure | hah, " | 11:18 |
| kanzure | Long-term and room temperature operable bioactuator powered by insect dorsal vessel tissue" | 11:18 |
| kanzure | one moment. | 11:18 |
| fenn | ok this is a "real experiment" http://www.nature.com/nmeth/journal/v6/n1/abs/nmeth.1289.html | 11:18 |
| kanzure | http://heybryan.org/books/papers/microfluidics/Lecithin-Based%20Water-In-Oil%20Compartments%20as%20Dividing%20Bioreactors%20-%20in%20vitro%20protein%20synthesis.pdf | 11:19 |
| kanzure | http://heybryan.org/books/papers/microfluidics/Protein%20fabrication%20automation.pdf | 11:19 |
| kanzure | ah, your link is better than those two. | 11:20 |
| fenn | there should be some kind of 96 well plate to microfluidic chip adapter | 11:21 |
| kanzure | " | 11:22 |
| kanzure | Laser trapping and Raman spectroscopy of single cellular organelles in the nanometer range" | 11:22 |
| kanzure | how can that not be SCIENCE? :) | 11:23 |
| fenn | the grid-based grab droplets and move them around strategy seems much more flexible and useful as an actual "lab on a chip" than all this combinatorial stuff | 11:24 |
| fenn | it's like FPGA vs ASIC | 11:25 |
| fenn | well, sort of | 11:25 |
| kanzure | hm. I never heard about ASIC. looks like it's basically "really truly hardcoding" ? | 11:26 |
| fenn | yep | 11:27 |
| fenn | think FPGA without the "field programmable" part | 11:27 |
| fenn | but they are used for analog and power too | 11:28 |
| fenn | it's almost a buzzword | 11:28 |
| kanzure | what's the advantage of mf cell-free protein expression? it doesn't (yet) make it easy to acquire the special chemicals you need to make that happen. | 11:30 |
| kanzure | guess it just lets you use smaller volumes. | 11:31 |
| kanzure | I wonder if your parallel wax droplet fabrication method could be layered. | 11:34 |
| kanzure | as long as you can move the microheater array upwards a specific distance, apply your new wax droplets by micropipetters or something | 11:35 |
| * kanzure thinks this is starting to sound a lot like a goo squirter | 11:35 | |
| -!- procto [n=boo@logarchy.org] has quit [Remote closed the connection] | 11:46 | |
| -!- procto [n=boo@logarchy.org] has joined #hplusroadmap | 11:46 | |
| fenn | maybe, but you can decrease the drop size to something ridiculously small since it's parallelizable | 11:47 |
| -!- samrose [n=samrose@mi-beaco-rtr-16-59.synergydsl.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] | 12:10 | |
| -!- xp_prg [n=xp_prg3@99.2.31.217] has joined #hplusroadmap | 12:33 | |
| xp_prg | tell me how to do electrphloresis with microfluidics | 12:59 |
| -!- nsh [i=nsh@fm47pc77.uta.fi] has joined #hplusroadmap | 13:00 | |
| nsh | who about? | 13:00 |
| nsh | nevermind, found it. (was trying to remember the word "stigmergy") | 13:03 |
| fenn | lots of fun cyborg dystopian explosions in this comic http://www.onemanga.com/BLAME/ | 13:05 |
| -!- nsh [i=nsh@fm47pc77.uta.fi] has quit ["Java user signed off"] | 13:26 | |
| gene | http://hi.eecg.toronto.edu/wearhow-split0/index.html | 13:27 |
| gene | How to make a wearable from Steve Mann himself | 13:27 |
| fenn | uh.. $560 on batteries alone? | 13:29 |
| fenn | dead bug construction? no thanks | 13:30 |
| fenn | while steve may be obsessed, it doesn't mean he knows what he's doing | 13:30 |
| gene | yeah | 13:32 |
| gene | I just need a head mounted display with a camera that can hook up to my laptop | 13:32 |
| gene | I wonder how small a computer my laptop would be sans screen and keyboard | 13:33 |
| fenn | i'm going to use a beagleboard, if i havent already repeated myself too many times | 13:33 |
| fenn | gumstix overo is interesting as well, but ultimately costs more for less oomph | 13:33 |
| gene | can it run crysis? | 13:35 |
| gene | and cad applications | 13:35 |
| gene | I care more about cad | 13:35 |
| gene | well I'm going to go see a very large high res display | 13:35 |
| fenn | it has openGL ES but last i checked the software wasn't ready | 13:37 |
| fenn | so, probably not crysis, ever | 13:37 |
| fenn | but probably CAD | 13:38 |
| -!- samrose [n=samrose@74.94.227.158] has joined #hplusroadmap | 13:42 | |
| elias` | I've been thinking of using Pandora for something like that. | 13:43 |
| fenn | it's the same chip | 13:43 |
| elias` | seems the final version is going to have 256 MB RAM | 13:43 |
| fenn | yeah i'm considering using an SSD for swap | 13:44 |
| elias` | A USB webcam would probably be sufficient for a head mounted camera, but display seems more trickier (if you don't consider the potential trouble with getting a relatively discreet camera). | 13:47 |
| elias` | Someone hacked a monocle-like thing out of myvu crystal to mount to glasses, but seemed cumbersome since he had to focus on the side of his vision to actually see it properly | 13:48 |
| ybit | in apt-get construct <hardware>, what's the automation process of getting all the minerals again? i forget | 14:10 |
| ybit | ah | 14:11 |
| ybit | yes, i remember now. it's for a fablab, not home use. | 14:12 |
| fenn | nobody ever said that | 14:12 |
| ybit | eric drexler's mol. assembler would be for home use | 14:12 |
| fenn | you have running water, don't you? | 14:13 |
| ybit | sí | 14:13 |
| fenn | likewise, you buy commodities at stores, right? | 14:13 |
| ybit | sí | 14:13 |
| fenn | anyway, it's not just for space probes, or just for high tech centres | 14:14 |
| fenn | you get to choose any level of logistical autonomy | 14:14 |
| gene | I'd want some accelerometers and a compass installed in mine | 14:16 |
| gene | Eric drexler hasn't made much progress... | 14:16 |
| gene | http://www.iherb.com/ProductDetails.aspx?pid=11876&at=0 | 14:18 |
| gene | "Silicon, a component if silica, gives structure to all living things throughout the plant and animal kingdoms. It is essential to the human body and is found in the lungs, intestines and blood. Silicon gives strength and support to nails, hair, skin, connective tissue, tendons, and ligaments . *" | 14:18 |
| gene | holy cow, we're silicon based! | 14:18 |
| gene | trying to find me some colloidal silica, for making shear thickening fluid... | 14:19 |
| fenn | like cab-o-sil? thickener for airplane body work | 14:19 |
| fenn | interesting note of caution re: cab-o-sil http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_2715206/tm.htm | 14:20 |
| gene | I can't believe it, people are selling it as a supplement! | 14:21 |
| fenn | what, it's just dirt | 14:21 |
| gene | next thing I know I'll find quacks selling DNA polymerase and restriction enzymes as a supplement | 14:22 |
| fenn | i hope so | 14:22 |
| gene | no, it's not dirt | 14:22 |
| fenn | it will only make things easier | 14:22 |
| gene | it's been so highly processed it can't be considered dirt | 14:22 |
| gene | heh, well colloidal silica is quite small particles range from 5nm-405nm | 14:25 |
| kanzure | fenn: one of these days I'd like you to go over http://www.wired.com/images/article/full/2009/02/laser2_630x.jpg with me. It would be nice to figure out what all of the components are, or whether or not there's enough information here that Ed Boyden otherwise hasn't published on the OpenStim wiki | 14:30 |
| kanzure | the rest can probably be pieced together from heybryan.org/~bbishop/docs/open-rtms/ (a partial collection of Superkuh's bibliography on the subject) | 14:30 |
| gene | what's that? | 14:31 |
| kanzure | rTMS. | 14:31 |
| gene | whoever that is, they go to radioshack | 14:31 |
| kanzure | is that valid english? | 14:31 |
| kanzure | what are you trying to say? | 14:31 |
| gene | most of those components in that picture look like they are from radioshack | 14:32 |
| kanzure | right :) | 14:32 |
| kanzure | although the coil might be something weird | 14:32 |
| fenn | parallel IGBT test 440A | 14:32 |
| gene | home depot | 14:32 |
| kanzure | ah, it's "IGBT" | 14:32 |
| fenn | presumably 440A refers to the current in the coils | 14:32 |
| kanzure | I had my neck so messed up for the longest time trying to figure out wtf that said | 14:32 |
| gene | original article | 14:33 |
| gene | ? | 14:33 |
| kanzure | original article is worthless: http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/news/2009/03/neuroengineering2 | 14:33 |
| kanzure | (more or less) | 14:33 |
| kanzure | look up openstim and transcenmentalism (ed's site) | 14:33 |
| fenn | the big fat black boxes on the right are the IGBT's, the little squares are probably mosfet's that drive the igbt's, and the thingies on the breadboard are probably voltage regulators or something | 14:34 |
| gene | oh that one | 14:34 |
| fenn | blue box = capacitor? black box on cardboard = batteries? | 14:34 |
| gene | wait just one second here, I don't believe it | 14:35 |
| fenn | why dont you just ask them | 14:35 |
| kanzure | I guess. | 14:35 |
| kanzure | hrm, I have ed's number on my cell phone | 14:35 |
| kanzure | guess I finally have a use for it? | 14:35 |
| gene | MIT students use radioshack components? | 14:35 |
| kanzure | gene: what else would they use? | 14:35 |
| fenn | gene: are you that clueless? | 14:35 |
| fenn | radioshack didn't invent electronics | 14:36 |
| gene | are there no good electronics stores in the MIT area | 14:36 |
| kanzure | gene: what difference does it make whether or not parts are distributed through vendors? | 14:36 |
| fenn | they have electronics labs stuffed to the brim with every possible chip you could want, and rush delivery from companies eager to get their product into the hands of MIT engineers | 14:36 |
| gene | ok | 14:36 |
| xp_prg | kanzure I want to do electrophloresis with microfluidics tell me how | 14:36 |
| gene | just buy some agar | 14:37 |
| kanzure | xp_prg: I want to take over the galaxy tell me how or else I fuck your mom | 14:38 |
| xp_prg | I don't know here is my mom | 14:39 |
| kanzure | .. | 14:39 |
| gene | why? | 14:41 |
| kanzure | xp_prg: what have you done to answer your question? | 14:41 |
| xp_prg | learned why hydrophobic means, understood the sharpie experiment, watched youtube videos showing on a microfluidic lab is done, done gel electrophloresis with agar etc... | 14:43 |
| xp_prg | why what | 14:43 |
| xp_prg | what = what | 14:43 |
| kanzure | xp_prg: but you haven't even read any papers on electrophoresis in microfluidics? | 14:43 |
| kanzure | what the hell man? | 14:43 |
| xp_prg | no, I am afraid I won't understand them :( | 14:44 |
| ybit | sorry to have been out of it for awhile btw, i'm no longer distracted with open money. there are some neat underlying concepts, but i finally concluded that it wasn't one of my goals set out last year, and so it's been set aside. | 14:44 |
| kanzure | xp_prg: then why are you asking how to do it | 14:45 |
| kanzure | if you're afraid you won't understand how to do it | 14:45 |
| kanzure | ybit: congrats? :) | 14:45 |
| ybit | kanzure: indeed :) | 14:46 |
| xp_prg | cuz I understand the fundamental principles and I thought it would be easy for you to tell me | 14:46 |
| kanzure | you do not understand the fundamental principles. | 14:46 |
| xp_prg | and I am excited to do it :> | 14:46 |
| kanzure | because you are afraid of them | 14:46 |
| ybit | http://heybryan.org/mediawiki/index.php/Microfluidics + the interwebs is a start | 14:46 |
| fenn | xp_prg: it's not easy to explain things to people; it's so painful and awful a thing to do that we pay university professors hundreds of thousands of dollars a year | 14:46 |
| kanzure | yay for ybit. | 14:46 |
| ybit | xp_prg ^ | 14:47 |
| xp_prg | ok I will try | 14:47 |
| * xp_prg hates that at work he can't browse the web to do this kind of stuff :( | 14:47 | |
| xp_prg | that is one of the reasons I ask in here sorry | 14:47 |
| kanzure | just tunnel home. | 14:47 |
| fenn | wget -rk -np -nc http://heybryan.org/books/papers/microfluidics/ | 14:48 |
| kanzure | or better yet: | 14:48 |
| fenn | OH WAIT you're one of those windows idiots | 14:48 |
| kanzure | http://heybryan.org/books/papers/microfluidics_2009.zip | 14:48 |
| fenn | guess you're screwed | 14:48 |
| xp_prg | fenn I am on macosx | 14:48 |
| fenn | then why is your nick xp_prg | 14:48 |
| xp_prg | kanzure do you think it is doable by diybio person? | 14:48 |
| xp_prg | or will it be way too complicated? | 14:48 |
| xp_prg | fenn exteme programming *sigh* | 14:49 |
| kanzure | wow. | 14:49 |
| fenn | what's the word for that.. | 14:50 |
| fenn | like "ABS brakes" or "API interface" | 14:50 |
| kanzure | redundant acronym? | 14:50 |
| kanzure | recursive acronym? | 14:51 |
| gene | I think diybio's going nowhere | 15:37 |
| gene | everyone just wants to GFP e.coli | 15:38 |
| gene | I mean at least be creative and GFP human tissue or a plant | 15:38 |
| fenn | oo very creative.. that's never been done before | 15:39 |
| fenn | bacterial culture is so much easier that there's no compelling reason to do tissue culture | 15:40 |
| gene | well of course it's been done before, it's just that no one has tattoos that change with circadian rhythms | 15:41 |
| gene | perhaps mood tattoos... | 15:41 |
| fenn | this is quite possibly dumber than the magnet in the fingertip idea | 15:42 |
| gene | it is, but it's creative | 15:44 |
| gene | http://hackedgadgets.com/2006/07/08/wearable-wrist-computer-from-1984/ | 15:44 |
| gene | wearable computers | 15:44 |
| gene | one might use a gene gun to do the tattooing | 15:45 |
| gene | http://www.skynetresearch.com/ | 15:45 |
| fenn | hah i stumbled across that the other day | 15:46 |
| gene | hmm.. looks like an alternate reality game to me, I say we pester them like they're a real company | 15:46 |
| gene | hey could you give me a quote on improving our self-replicating automaton's replication rate? | 15:47 |
| gene | http://twitter.com/skynetresearch | 15:47 |
| gene | recent activity, hmmm... | 15:47 |
| gene | how's the fablab going along fenn? | 15:48 |
| fenn | not much activity.. les and i aren't synchronized | 15:50 |
| fenn | i made some step pulleys for the lathe, that's about it | 15:51 |
| gene | how? | 15:51 |
| gene | does the fab have a cnc machine? | 15:51 |
| gene | we don't have one right? | 15:52 |
| fenn | glued four squares of plywood together, turn them down, then i made a 35 degree vee bit with an angle grinder out of m2 square steel stock | 15:52 |
| fenn | nothing functional yet | 15:52 |
| gene | machine shop here says it will take 3 weeks to make a part I need... | 15:52 |
| fenn | the pulleys are for the lathe which will be CNC'd eventually | 15:53 |
| fenn | what part do you need made? | 15:53 |
| * fenn looks at #reprap | 15:53 | |
| gene | my weird spiral thing | 15:53 |
| gene | that has the people from the machine shop baffled | 15:54 |
| fenn | idiots | 15:54 |
| fenn | aren't you in ME? are you telling me they have no CNC machines? | 15:57 |
| fenn | obviously you had access to an FDM | 15:57 |
| gene | fenn, they're trying to program the machine manually... | 16:04 |
| gene | yeah, I know | 16:05 |
| fenn | i have a spiral generator if you want it | 16:05 |
| fenn | spits out gcode | 16:05 |
| fenn | http://fenn.freeshell.org/lengthspiral.py | 16:06 |
| gene | I don't care about that, I need a program to convert 3d models to gcode | 16:07 |
| * fenn wonders why the only copy of that was in irc/ | 16:07 | |
| fenn | oh ffs | 16:07 |
| fenn | go spend 9 million dollars then | 16:07 |
| fenn | don't pay attention to anything i've been ranting about for the last year | 16:07 |
| gene | wait a second fenn, in that program is angle the pitch angle? | 16:07 |
| fenn | no it's like the hands of a clock | 16:08 |
| gene | I have mastercam | 16:08 |
| gene | I don't know how to use it | 16:08 |
| fenn | then use mastercam | 16:08 |
| fenn | i'm not going to VNC into your laptop and do your homework for you | 16:08 |
| gene | hahahaha | 16:09 |
| gene | http://www.physorg.com/news155494040.html | 16:10 |
| * fenn searches for the news in that article | 16:11 | |
| gene | it's in there believe me | 16:12 |
| gene | it wasn't using GFP | 16:12 |
| fenn | big deal - fluorescent labeled sugars | 16:14 |
| gene | yeah | 16:15 |
| -!- samrose [n=samrose@74.94.227.158] has quit [Connection timed out] | 16:27 | |
| kanzure | fenn: you might want to post about lengthspiral.py in the diybio sharpie mf discussion re: protein separations and mass spec for nano-scale devices thingies. | 18:23 |
| fenn | uh, why? | 18:23 |
| -!- katsmeow-afk is now known as katsmeow | 18:23 | |
| kanzure | to be helpful? | 18:24 |
| fenn | i mean why is it relevant? | 18:24 |
| kanzure | Spiral microfluidic nanoparticle separators.pdf | 18:25 |
| kanzure | http://heybryan.org/books/papers/microfluidics/Spiral%20microfluidic%20nanoparticle%20separators.pdf | 18:25 |
| kanzure | or is your program still using those jolting edges instead of smooth curves? | 18:26 |
| katsmeow | wow, http://diybio.org/ has a few hundred of these : Warning: array_map() | 18:26 |
| kanzure | sounds like php | 18:27 |
| -!- gene [n=chatzill@wireless-128-62-99-35.public.utexas.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] | 18:28 | |
| fenn | kanzure: can't you just use inkscape or whatever to make a spiral? | 18:30 |
| kanzure | why are you asking? | 18:32 |
| fenn | http://fenn.freeshell.org/microfluidic-spiral.png is a lot faster and easier to do than to figure out wtf to do with g-code and some random python script some dude made that is totally unrelated | 18:36 |
| kanzure | wasn't that from a paper? | 18:37 |
| fenn | i just drew it after looking at that pdf you linked to | 18:37 |
| kanzure | oh, there was one where something like that exact image is used | 18:37 |
| kanzure | it might have been that one. | 18:37 |
| fenn | huh i need another turn on the spiral | 18:38 |
| fenn | anyway | 18:38 |
| kanzure | in this case, gcode isn't useful if you're just going to print out the pattern on an inkjet printer | 18:38 |
| kanzure | so instead how about an SVG generator? | 18:39 |
| fenn | well i could do it but why? | 18:39 |
| kanzure | oh, I'm not suggesting you write it | 18:39 |
| kanzure | but wouldn't that be useful? instead of unsteadily drawing a spiral each time you want to add a few more loops? | 18:39 |
| kanzure | (or a few more turns, I mean) | 18:39 |
| kanzure | or insert some other random parameter that I am neglecting to think about | 18:40 |
| fenn | yes of course some parametric cad program would be ideal | 18:40 |
| kanzure | why put all of your eggs into one basket? | 18:41 |
| fenn | because you need some way to add the little dealies on the ends eventually | 18:41 |
| fenn | writing a custom generator for each job is stupid | 18:41 |
| kanzure | I tend to write a lot of scripts for myself these days | 18:42 |
| kanzure | and even build up on previous scripts I've written | 18:42 |
| kanzure | what's wrong with that? | 18:42 |
| fenn | it's impenetrable | 18:42 |
| fenn | could you write a script to remake that diagram in four minutes? | 18:42 |
| kanzure | how many parameters? | 18:43 |
| kanzure | or which ones | 18:43 |
| fenn | none | 18:43 |
| kanzure | oh | 18:43 |
| kanzure | then why make it a script? | 18:43 |
| fenn | all hardcoded (if that's easier) | 18:43 |
| kanzure | wtf? | 18:43 |
| fenn | because you can add parameters if you want | 18:43 |
| kanzure | I think I could do it. | 18:44 |
| kanzure | the spiral would just be the set of parametric equations. | 18:44 |
| kanzure | and then the i/o dealies would be custom with a partial curve that I'd have to do a regression analysis of. | 18:44 |
| fenn | oh of course | 18:45 |
| fenn | i suppose an arc is too complicated | 18:45 |
| kanzure | plot t*cos(t), t*sin(t) | 18:45 |
| kanzure | ah, an arc :) | 18:45 |
| -!- gene [n=chatzill@wireless-128-62-99-35.public.utexas.edu] has joined #hplusroadmap | 18:45 | |
| fenn | this spiral is just a centrifuge? | 18:46 |
| fenn | don't they know that A = v^2/r | 18:47 |
| kanzure | well, centrifugal forces aren't supposed to be involved. but that paper claims so. | 18:47 |
| fenn | so why the huge radius curves | 18:47 |
| kanzure | http://heybryan.org/books/papers/microfluidics/Continuous%20particle%20separation%20in%20spiral%20microchannels%20using%20dean%20flows%20and%20differential%20migration.pdf | 18:48 |
| kanzure | http://heybryan.org/books/papers/microfluidics/Membrane-free%20microfiltration%20by%20asymmetric%20inertial%20migration%20-%20spirals%20-%20bifurcations.pdf | 18:48 |
| kanzure | http://heybryan.org/books/papers/microfluidics/Membraneless%20microseparation%20by%20asymmetry%20in%20curvilinear%20laminar%20flows.pdf | 18:48 |
| kanzure | those papers don't rely on centrifugal forces IIRC | 18:48 |
| fenn | i hate it when they refer to a phenomenon by the name of the discoverer | 18:54 |
| fenn | a Dean force, you dont say | 18:54 |
| kanzure | they probably don't know better | 18:54 |
| fenn | and that's because of a Dean vortex, I see | 18:54 |
| kanzure | (as in, what the force actually is) | 18:54 |
| kanzure | oh, and this one: http://heybryan.org/books/papers/microfluidics/Membraneless%20microseparation%20by%20asymmetry%20in%20curvilinear%20laminar%20flows.pdf | 18:59 |
| kanzure | ah, crap, I mentioned that one already. | 18:59 |
| katsmeow | if you don't have the right font for reading Amharic, Khmer, or Thai, they are available at http://idn.icann.org/Fonts , i mention this only because some new domain stuff reads in english not like it is supposed to,, such as .xn-zckzah | 19:11 |
| kanzure | is that a new TLD? | 19:11 |
| kanzure | woah. IANA.org says yes. | 19:12 |
| kanzure | hrm | 19:12 |
| katsmeow | .xn--jxalpdlp Greek (.??????) <<-- mirc won't copy/paste the greek | 19:12 |
| katsmeow | .xn--9t4b11yi5a Korean (.???) <<== ditto | 19:12 |
| katsmeow | .xn--hgbk6aj7f53bba Persian (.???????) <<== ditto | 19:12 |
| katsmeow | hell of a situation, i bet windows won't even allow the name to be typed in, nor the page saved | 19:13 |
| katsmeow | i can't get a grip on a domain like www.mydomain..xn--hlcj6aya9esc7a | 19:13 |
| gene | now where did you find that kanzure | 19:14 |
| kanzure | gene: find what? | 19:14 |
| gene | first paper? | 19:14 |
| kanzure | which one? | 19:14 |
| kanzure | Continuous particle separation in spiral microchannels using dean flows and differential migration? | 19:15 |
| gene | yup | 19:15 |
| kanzure | I'm not sure where I found it. | 19:17 |
| kanzure | but I found it on 2009-02-27 | 19:17 |
| gene | there's also some saffman forces too | 19:17 |
| gene | shit, I though this dean vortex thing wasn't that important | 19:18 |
| gene | but I guess it is | 19:18 |
| -!- kanzure-- [i=bbishop@66.112.232.182] has joined #hplusroadmap | 19:19 | |
| gene | that paper helps a lot | 19:19 |
| kanzure-- | the last message I got was the one in which you said 'saffman forces' at the end | 19:20 |
| kanzure-- | (the desktop has frozen, am tunneling in to fix.) | 19:20 |
| -!- katsmeow is now known as katsmeow-afk | 19:23 | |
| kanzure | okay, fixed. | 19:24 |
| kanzure | so, eli has now bought and put up crap at lesswrong.org .. too bad notevenwrong.org is taken. | 19:31 |
| -!- PeerInfinity [n=someone@216.36.180.162] has joined #hplusroadmap | 19:54 | |
| -!- elias` [n=me@unaffiliated/elias/x-342423] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] | 20:24 | |
| gene | I though that dean vortex thing wasn't that important | 20:36 |
| gene | that's what I said | 20:37 |
| -!- tarbo2 [n=me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has joined #hplusroadmap | 21:01 | |
| kanzure | stuff to get: The effect of the variation of surface tension with temperature on the motion of bubbles and drops | 21:06 |
| kanzure | Motion of large bubbles in curved channels | 21:06 |
| kanzure | A note on the existence of wakes behind large, rising bubbles, | 21:07 |
| kanzure | The motion of large bubbles in horizontal channels, | 21:07 |
| kanzure | On the ability of drops or bubbles to stick to non-horizontal surfaces of solids | 21:07 |
| kanzure | On the ability of drops or bubbles to stick to non-horizontal surfaces of solids. Part 2. Small drops or bubbles having contact angles of arbitrary size | 21:08 |
| kanzure | On the motion of bubbles in capillary tubes | 21:08 |
| kanzure | Self-propulsion of asymmetrically vibrating bubbles | 21:08 |
| kanzure | The response of microscopic bubbles to sudden changes in the ambient pressure | 21:09 |
| -!- tarbo2_ [n=me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] | 21:13 | |
| -!- xp_prg [n=xp_prg3@99.2.31.217] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] | 21:37 | |
| gene | huh | 22:16 |
| gene | did you say the propulsion of vibrating bubbles? | 22:16 |
| gene | that's easy | 22:16 |
| gene | something like a triangle track should work for that | 22:17 |
| gene | response of microscopic bubbles to changes in ambient pressue, p bubble = p atm | 22:17 |
| -!- xp_prg [n=xp_prg3@99.23.56.166] has joined #hplusroadmap | 22:30 | |
| ybit | http://heybryan.org/folders.html :: i like how the story @ the bottom doesn't have an end ;P | 23:40 |
| -!- PeerInfinity [n=someone@216.36.180.162] has quit [] | 23:50 | |
Generated by irclog2html.py 2.15.0.dev0 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!
