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| fenn | http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.18431 | 01:53 |
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| fenn | USB cigarette... | 01:55 |
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| faceface | hi | 03:09 |
| faceface | The House Mouse | 03:10 |
| faceface | Atlas of Embryonic Development | 03:10 |
| faceface | (free download) http://genex.hgu.mrc.ac.uk/Atlas/Theiler_book_download.html | 03:10 |
| faceface | emap could be interesting for you | 03:10 |
| faceface | Computer modeling of stages of mouse embryogenesis to map the expression of different genes. | 03:10 |
| faceface | I attended a lecture of foam, and wanted to use 'surface evolver' as a simulation of embryo genisis | 03:11 |
| faceface | http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=foam+flies+and+functions+surface+evolver&hl=en | 03:12 |
| faceface | Cell adhesion and cortex contractility determine cell patterning in the Drosophilaretina | 03:12 |
| faceface | Because of the resemblance of many epithelial tissues to densely packed soap bubbles, it has been suggested that surface minimization, which drives soap bubble packing, could be governing cell packing as welln | 03:13 |
| faceface | http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=2141814 | 03:13 |
| faceface | http://genex.hgu.mrc.ac.uk/ | 03:13 |
| faceface | http://www.susqu.edu/facstaff/b/brakke/evolver/evolver.html | 03:13 |
| faceface | Sorry if I'm about a year behind you guys (as it usually turns out) | 03:14 |
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| kanzure | huh, that's odd, that's actually something that I might have seen before re: surface minimization of bubbles and cells | 08:42 |
| kanzure | ybit: | 08:43 |
| kanzure | oops, nevermind. false alarm. | 08:43 |
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| fenn | i should have done this a long time ago http://fennetic.net/pub/irc/battery-comparison.png | 09:21 |
| fenn | i cant believe people actually use spreadsheets | 09:26 |
| kanzure | yay for a battery comparison chart | 09:26 |
| fenn | it's just barely workable | 09:26 |
| kanzure | I'm still attempting to heal from the shock of learning that "most engineers just use spreadsheets" | 09:27 |
| fenn | well, what else would they use? there's no good KBE tools | 09:28 |
| kanzure | that's because there's no good knowledge base. | 09:28 |
| faceface | kanzure: usefull? | 09:28 |
| kanzure | ? | 09:28 |
| fenn | true that | 09:28 |
| faceface | foam links / surface evolver | 09:28 |
| fenn | took 2 hours to assemble the battery data :\ | 09:28 |
| fenn | ideally every piece of data would have a url source | 09:29 |
| fenn | can't figure out how to do that with a spreadsheet | 09:29 |
| faceface | fenn: start a Semantic MW | 09:29 |
| faceface | media wiki | 09:29 |
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| fenn | bleah | 09:29 |
| faceface | bah! | 09:29 |
| fenn | last thing i need is wiki bullshit | 09:29 |
| faceface | heheh | 09:29 |
| fenn | seriously, wiki is 90% display/format | 09:29 |
| fenn | this is an associative database | 09:30 |
| faceface | fenn smw is also data | 09:30 |
| faceface | yes | 09:30 |
| fenn | it's focused around building a "page" though | 09:30 |
| kanzure | fenn: do you have the URL sources? | 09:30 |
| fenn | i dont want a page, i want functions and views of data | 09:30 |
| faceface | right, the page name is part of the triple | 09:30 |
| fenn | kanzure: no, not really | 09:30 |
| faceface | fenn: page <=> data, you need to accept that concept when building a DB in SMW, but its not that much of a stretch tbh | 09:31 |
| kanzure | fenn: I think some of that data should be in our skdb metadata format. you can pre-emptively set the CAD to just be a cylinder from pythonOCC :-p | 09:31 |
| fenn | faceface: i have no experience with SMW, only regular mediawiki | 09:31 |
| fenn | so i dont know how it's really done | 09:31 |
| kanzure | (there's an example script on pythonocc for generating cylinders, something like BRepPrim_API.BRepPrimAPI_Cylinder()) | 09:31 |
| faceface | fenn: you can start one up on refereata.com | 09:31 |
| fenn | i dont want to start one up | 09:31 |
| faceface | I have prodstat.referata.com and a couple others. | 09:31 |
| fenn | show me something you consider 'good form' if you want to convince me | 09:31 |
| kanzure | god, have I honestly memorized an OCC API call? that thing looks gross | 09:32 |
| faceface | there are some better examples out there than mine. | 09:32 |
| faceface | I don't want to convice you of anything, I just think SMW is going to be big | 09:32 |
| fenn | kanzure: yes of course | 09:32 |
| fenn | the API will change soon anyway to reduce redundundancy | 09:32 |
| kanzure | "sit back and wait" never works | 09:32 |
| kanzure | I don't know if that will actually happen, but I hope it will of course | 09:32 |
| kanzure | how long did you spend assembling battery data? | 09:33 |
| fenn | ^^ 2hr | 09:33 |
| faceface | fenn: here is an example where I 'query' all countries in the triple store... http://prodstat.referata.com/wiki/Concept:Country | 09:33 |
| kanzure | why did you give it to me in a png | 09:33 |
| kanzure | :p | 09:33 |
| fenn | i'm thinking about a few different things | 09:33 |
| fenn | because i dont think everyone on the channel has kspread | 09:33 |
| kanzure | kde spreadsheet? | 09:33 |
| kanzure | what format is the output? | 09:34 |
| fenn | .ods, .csv, gnumeric | 09:34 |
| kanzure | I would be surprised if OpenOffice.org Calc does not import it | 09:34 |
| faceface | here is an example data point http://prodstat.referata.com/wiki/DataPoint:0002:0116:031:1965 | 09:34 |
| kanzure | .csv would be nice | 09:34 |
| fenn | i was surprised it didnt export .xls | 09:34 |
| kanzure | .ods is OO.o Calc | 09:34 |
| kanzure | right? | 09:34 |
| faceface | This data point describes the Area Harvested for Potatoes in Afghanistan in the year 1965. | 09:34 |
| fenn | or at least some kind of plain .xml, not gzipped directory full of files .xml | 09:34 |
| faceface | That text is generated from teh underlying data and associations | 09:35 |
| fenn | ods is open document spreadsheet; there's a separate option for ooo specifically, not sure what the diff is | 09:35 |
| kanzure | you know there's a command to check the diff | 09:35 |
| kanzure | I think it's called `diff` | 09:35 |
| faceface | try xmldiff | 09:35 |
| fenn | hm | 09:35 |
| kanzure | there's an xmldiff? does it do what it says it does? | 09:36 |
| fenn | i don't really care that much as i hate spreadsheets | 09:36 |
| fenn | i was hoping to find a simple way to convert to yaml | 09:36 |
| faceface | I think it does what it can | 09:36 |
| kanzure | fenn: well at least so that I don't have to type up the data if I want to go play around with it | 09:36 |
| kanzure | fenn: oh, take the first row of column names and covert that to variable names in a python class | 09:36 |
| faceface | i.e. send me a text file ;-) | 09:36 |
| kanzure | so you can write a csv2python-class generator: the first row of a .csv file determines the members of the class | 09:36 |
| fenn | kanzure: that's the simple way | 09:36 |
| kanzure | what's wrong with it? | 09:37 |
| kanzure | or, what's better? | 09:37 |
| fenn | i really want to subclass the 18650 battery type and overwrite various values in specific instances | 09:37 |
| kanzure | do you have the dataset describing the 18650 battery types? | 09:37 |
| fenn | only a couple | 09:37 |
| fenn | there are a zillion different batteries out there | 09:37 |
| fenn | that all roughly correspond to the same type of battery compatibility | 09:38 |
| fenn | maybe it's hopeless to try to classify them | 09:38 |
| kanzure | battery compatibility does seem to be slightly more documented than other types of compatibilities | 09:38 |
| fenn | instead do a compatibility checker function that looks at the actual data | 09:38 |
| fenn | well, putting 3.6V 14500 lithium cells in a device for AA's would probably kill it | 09:39 |
| fenn | they are exact same size you see | 09:39 |
| fenn | (thats the point) | 09:39 |
| kanzure | didn't know that. don't have a compatibility checker function. | 09:39 |
| fenn | so, 18650's are much better in terms of Wh/kg Wh/$ and Wh/l, but they dont make battery holders for them | 09:40 |
| fenn | weird eh | 09:40 |
| fenn | i want AA form factor compatibility so i think i'm going to go with 14500 in the initial design | 09:40 |
| fenn | it's probably a terrible mistake though | 09:41 |
| kanzure | what are the AA/AAA battery connections? the ones with springs. does this have a special fit name? | 09:41 |
| fenn | "battery contact"? | 09:41 |
| fenn | |country code=2 | 09:42 |
| fenn | |item code=116 | 09:42 |
| fenn | |element code=31 | 09:42 |
| fenn | |year=1965 | 09:42 |
| fenn | |value=15000 | 09:42 |
| fenn | |value flag=* | 09:42 |
| fenn | faceface: are you fucking kidding me? | 09:42 |
| kanzure | heh | 09:42 |
| faceface | fenn: you add the data programatically, or through a form | 09:43 |
| faceface | insert into table values () ()... | 09:43 |
| fenn | what's the point of using mediawiki then | 09:43 |
| faceface | thats just as ugly | 09:43 |
| faceface | fenn: it can integrate your data with a remote ontology and publish it on teh semantic web | 09:44 |
| faceface | also its a common platform for communty integration, i.e. using various 'results formats' | 09:44 |
| fenn | how do i edit that datapoint "the right way"? | 09:44 |
| kanzure | so I was putting some thought into an automatic density profile optimization partial differential equation function thingy for arbitrary 2D channel geometries; such that I can solve for a continuous function that outputs channel geometries. I'm thinking that the function that I want is a NURBS curve or Belzier curve that makes up a smooth curve plotted through a set of points. (and then the parallel side of the geometry is either the same geometry, or a straight line- I haven't decided). Then look for a 'target density profile' and do rating for the solutions. | 09:44 |
| faceface | i.e. I can plot my prodstat data using googlecharts, serve it up as an RSS, query it off the semantic web ... | 09:44 |
| kanzure | faceface: it's not 'typed'. | 09:45 |
| faceface | fenn: click edit with form | 09:45 |
| faceface | kanzure: its deeply typed, as in ontologically | 09:45 |
| kanzure | only if you know the ontology | 09:45 |
| faceface | fenn: click "edit with form" | 09:45 |
| fenn | where is that? | 09:45 |
| faceface | kanzure: the ontology can be imported into the wiki, and URI's are linked | 09:46 |
| faceface | (I think... tbh I haven't got into teh ontolgy side yet) | 09:46 |
| faceface | oh your right, the link is missing! | 09:46 |
| faceface | one moment | 09:46 |
| faceface | the link is missing from my site for technical reasons... | 09:47 |
| faceface | here is what it would look like http://prodstat.referata.com/wiki/Special:EditData/DataPoint/DataPoint:2:515:31:1968 | 09:47 |
| faceface | other sites are much better organized (wrt the data) than mine | 09:47 |
| fenn | well that's even worse | 09:47 |
| fenn | i'm expecting something like <country>Afghanistan</country> | 09:48 |
| faceface | kanzure: the typing also happens here http://prodstat.referata.com/wiki/Property:Has_element_code | 09:48 |
| kanzure | say, is there a way to get django to be running in the background constantly so that you don't have to reload imported libraries on each page call? | 09:48 |
| faceface | fenn: sorry to dissapoint ;-) | 09:48 |
| kanzure | (just thinking of pythonOCC+django.) | 09:48 |
| faceface | fenn: check the RDF feed for the semantic web version | 09:48 |
| faceface | the URIs can be configured to be more generic, but I haven't done that yet | 09:49 |
| fenn | which URI? | 09:49 |
| faceface | the URI in the RDF | 09:50 |
| fenn | "http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema#double"? | 09:50 |
| faceface | the real semantic annotation happens here fyi, http://prodstat.referata.com/w/index.php?title=Template:DataPoint&action=edit | 09:50 |
| faceface | fenn: I don't understand the question | 09:51 |
| kanzure | http://search.cpan.org/search?query=dependency&mode=all hrm. there's an Algorithm::Dependency module | 09:51 |
| faceface | here is a slightly better organized SMW, with an example of analysis over the data... http://discoursedb.org/wiki/Topic_breakdown | 09:53 |
| faceface | also check this if your interested http://discoursedb.org/wiki/Special:BrowseData | 09:54 |
| faceface | but the point is that none of teh stuff I've been pointing you at is 'hard coded' into the wiki, its all user editable. So people can add and edit data, queries, forms etc. etc. | 09:55 |
| kanzure | hm. http://pypi.python.org/pypi/topsort/0.9 | 09:55 |
| kanzure | code: http://www.radlogic.com/releases/topsort.py | 09:55 |
| faceface | so once you have data for 50 batteries, other people may come to add more data | 09:55 |
| fenn | ok, discoursedb is structured a little better | 09:55 |
| faceface | its kind of an exemplar site | 09:56 |
| fenn | it makes my browser sad though :( | 09:57 |
| faceface | too much js? it uses the yahoo library | 09:57 |
| faceface | the 'semantic forms' SMW extension I mean | 09:57 |
| fenn | it's not really clear where the info displayed on the page comes from | 09:58 |
| faceface | also 'semantic drilldown' which tries to build a navigation system that is aware of the structure implicit in the data. | 09:58 |
| faceface | there will be a MW template call somewhere down theres | 09:58 |
| faceface | there | 09:58 |
| faceface | which page? | 09:58 |
| fenn | like on this page http://discoursedb.org/wiki/North_Korean_nuclear_crisis_/_Economic_sanctions_should_be_placed_on_North_Korea | 09:58 |
| fenn | where do all these positions come from? | 09:59 |
| faceface | OK, the text in that page is a 'template call' - kind of mehod call in MW | 09:59 |
| kanzure | fenn, is your git repository on fennetic.net still? and if so where? | 09:59 |
| fenn | kanzure: no, one moment | 09:59 |
| * fenn shifts desktops.. too much battery crap :) | 10:00 | |
| faceface | for the position method, see http://discoursedb.org/wiki/Template:Position | 10:00 |
| faceface | it uses the magic word 'PAGENAME' so that putting the text {{Position}} in a different page will have a different output | 10:01 |
| faceface | so the position template placed on the North Korean page produces output for North Korea | 10:02 |
| faceface | the "{{#ask:" parts are queries for data | 10:03 |
| faceface | I made the ask queries a bit easier to read... http://discoursedb.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Position&action=edit | 10:07 |
| fenn | i need to do some kind of .htaccess directive to run the .cgi, but i forget how | 10:08 |
| fenn | gitweb.cgi | 10:08 |
| faceface | I think you need to set that globally | 10:08 |
| faceface | won't work in .htaccess iirc | 10:09 |
| fenn | i can't do global config | 10:09 |
| faceface | perhaps the global config has that option enabled in .htaccess... can you read the global config? | 10:09 |
| faceface | (I don't think its enabled by default) | 10:09 |
| kanzure | it works in .htaccess IIRC | 10:09 |
| kanzure | or you have to put it in /var/lib/cgi-bin/ or something silly like that | 10:09 |
| kanzure | ah, /usr/lib/cgi-bin/ | 10:10 |
| fenn | i dont want to do that | 10:10 |
| fenn | ahOptions +ExecCGI | 10:13 |
| fenn | AddHandler cgi-script .cgi .pl | 10:13 |
| fenn | ok, formattings kinda weird but gitweb works now | 10:17 |
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| kanzure | http://www.scribd.com/doc/6793556/Assembly-Mates milling machine assembly mates | 10:52 |
| kanzure | http://www.me.metu.edu.tr/courses/me407/documents/Tutorials/SolidWorks_Assembly/Universal_Joint/START_TUTORIAL.htm | 10:52 |
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| kanzure | http://www.theswgeek.com/2008/08/18/design-faster-with-design-library-and-mate-references-pt1/ so here they just use tagging. bleh. | 10:55 |
| kanzure | there used to be part mating in OCC 5.1 or something. | 10:55 |
| kanzure | the class no longer exists in the latest releases | 10:55 |
| kanzure | say, http://designrepository.org/ works | 10:58 |
| kanzure | oh. I've already ripped that dataset. drats. | 10:58 |
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| kanzure | hm, I like: http://dimacs.rutgers.edu/Workshops/CompAided/slides/shokoufandeh.ppt | 11:08 |
| kanzure | non-ppt version: http://heybryan.org/~bbishop/docs/Scale-Space%20Representations%20and%20their%20Applications%20to%203D%20Matching%20of%20Solid%20Models.ppt.pdf | 11:09 |
| kanzure | those algorithms can be implemented with OCC | 11:12 |
| fenn | says "thanks to matra datavision/opencascade" on designrepository.org | 11:16 |
| fenn | huh. Thomas Kramer is one of the guys who made EMC | 11:17 |
| kanzure | designrepository.org is just Regli in disguise | 11:23 |
| kanzure | where do you see the "thanks to" and Thomas Kramer? | 11:23 |
| kanzure | http://edge.cs.drexel.edu/repository/old-web/frameset.html | 11:24 |
| * kanzure goes to look at a lot of screens for a few hours | 11:25 | |
| fenn | ya, there. | 11:26 |
| fenn | have fun | 11:27 |
| kanzure | I think I will :) | 11:27 |
| fenn | try maximizing a window with google earth | 11:28 |
| kanzure | does Google Earth run under wine? | 11:28 |
| kanzure | hrm, does wine work with x forwarding? | 11:28 |
| fenn | uh, dunno | 11:28 |
| * kanzure leaves | 11:28 | |
| bkero | kanzure: yes | 11:31 |
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| anthonyl | i thought there was a linux google earth client now | 13:06 |
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| kanzure | well that was fairly neat | 13:21 |
| kanzure | chromium + opengl + magic-carpet + kde | 13:22 |
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| UtopiahGHML | (for "log of my life" fans : http://zealog.com/ posted in RWW) | 13:35 |
| fenn | certainly more appropriate than twitter | 13:48 |
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| fenn | could use an API | 13:53 |
| kanzure | so the visualization lab is sort of the type where "you shouldn't reboot any of the machines because nobody knows how to set up the configuration the right way again" | 14:10 |
| kanzure | but otherwise it's great. | 14:11 |
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| kanzure | hm, so how am I supposed to get done 8 hours of matrix math in less than 2? | 14:46 |
| kanzure | I guess I can get creative with the machines that I have ssh access to | 14:46 |
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| xp_prg | http://diybio.org/2009/04/02/diybio-san-francisco-glow-in-the-dark-1/ | 15:57 |
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| ybit | hah, what was the 5 second false alarm? | 17:25 |
| kanzure | accidentally had your name in the queue and didn't actually type anything | 17:26 |
| xp_prg | in tcp/ip what is a keep alive packet? | 17:28 |
| xp_prg | is it just some random thing you send every so often? | 17:28 |
| kanzure | http://tldp.org/HOWTO/TCP-Keepalive-HOWTO/overview.html | 17:38 |
| kanzure | it's just the ACK flagged to on | 17:38 |
| kanzure | http://gicl.cs.drexel.edu/wiki/William_C._Regli | 18:03 |
| kanzure | " | 18:04 |
| kanzure | Regli's academic ancestry can be traced back to Leibniz, via Euler, the Bernoullis and Poisson." | 18:04 |
| kanzure | blah. why can't *my* academic ancestry be traced back to Leibniz? waah. | 18:04 |
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| kanzure | fenn: http://packages.python.org/quantities/user/tutorial.html | 19:17 |
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| kanzure | another one: http://juanreyero.com/magnitude/ | 19:21 |
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| ybit | at 11:44 http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/pw_singer_on_robots_of_war.html | 20:34 |
| ybit | what is that? | 20:34 |
| ybit | it looks like something is being screwed into the guy's head | 20:35 |
| ybit | http://www.gizmag.com/go/4004/ :: "The Land Walker: the world's first 340cm bipedal exoskeleton" | 20:39 |
| ybit | wondered how i missed teh bipedal | 20:47 |
| kanzure | is that Sacros? | 20:49 |
| ybit | link 1 or 2? | 20:52 |
| kanzure | um, neither, haven't checked them yet | 20:55 |
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| kanzure | http://opencascade.blogspot.com/ nice blog. | 21:06 |
| gene | speaking of exoskeletons has anyone seen lockheedmartin's new exoskeleton? | 21:08 |
| kanzure | no? | 21:11 |
| gene | http://www.lockheedmartin.com/news/press_releases/2009/MFC_022609_LockheedMartinUnveilsExoskeleton.html | 21:12 |
| kanzure | http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/freeabs_all.jsp?arnumber=103393 anyone ever play around with Reeb graphs? | 21:23 |
| gene | http://www.pcbmotor.com/ | 21:30 |
| gene | check it out | 21:30 |
| gene | flat motoro | 21:30 |
| gene | http://155.69.254.10/users/risc/www/usm-intro.html | 21:31 |
| gene | ultrasonic motor stages that are accurate to 50 nm | 21:32 |
| kanzure | http://www.pascucci.org/topology/contour_tree/ | 21:39 |
| kanzure | http://graphics.cs.ucdavis.edu/~sdillard/libtourtre/doc/html/ contour tree library | 21:40 |
| gene | hmmm... | 21:58 |
| gene | how do they make piezoelectric elements? | 21:59 |
| kanzure | they aren't elements. they are crystals. | 22:05 |
| kanzure | also, piezoelectricity is very close to god's gift to man | 22:05 |
| kanzure | fenn: I'm thinking there's more to Regli's work than I originally thought- the Reeb graph stuff is impressive | 22:06 |
| gene | indeed they are | 22:07 |
| gene | link to diy electron microscope that used a piezo buzzer? | 22:07 |
| gene | I'd like to make a nanometer accurate positioning stage | 22:07 |
| gene | that is cheap to make | 22:08 |
| gene | I want damn tiny milling machine | 22:09 |
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| kanzure | ".. and is defined as the sum of the geodesic distances g(v, p) from v to the other points {p|p in S}: integral of g(v,p)dS (v is a point in shape S) | 22:14 |
| kanzure | did they fail their latex or do they really mean sum and then mean to show an integral? | 22:14 |
| kanzure | oh, a geodesic distance integral | 22:18 |
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| kanzure | hahah | 22:37 |
| kanzure | blender implements reebgraphs | 22:37 |
| kanzure | yay | 22:37 |
| kanzure | http://www.google.com/codesearch/p?hl=en#bl6RANvgn8I/trunk/source/blender/src/reeb.c&q=%22reeb%20graph%22 | 22:37 |
| kanzure | bwahah: https://svn.blender.org/svnroot/bf-blender/branches/harmonic-skeleton/release/scripts/reeb.py | 22:40 |
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| kanzure | http://blenderocv.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/source/blender/src/reeb.c | 22:45 |
| kanzure | doesn't seem to be the same type of Reeb graph | 22:55 |
| fenn | reeb graph is a way to represent topology? | 23:19 |
| fenn | pq looks halfway decent | 23:24 |
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| kanzure | reeb graph is apparently the way that blender generates skeletons | 23:56 |
| kanzure | regli was using reeb graphs for part matching, similarity search and apparently part mating (I guess symmetry in the reeb graph would indicate a way to connect the two graphs together?) | 23:57 |
| kanzure | gene- that piezo thingy was just a buzzer from a headphone cut into four sections with a knife. | 23:58 |
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