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| cis-action | hey | 08:38 |
|---|---|---|
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| ybit | you guys can think me later: http://co.de is available | 10:03 |
| ybit | since the .de domain is available to everyone | 10:04 |
| ybit | well, i thought it was a good domain. if there was money in my checkings i'd purchase i | 10:12 |
| * ybit needs a homepage address | 10:12 | |
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| faceface | nice domain | 10:51 |
| faceface | there is some humor in the .co.ck addresses | 10:51 |
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| kanzure | "I saw another minimalist paper. A lab has made microfluidics using standard electronics PCB methods, etched with a pattern from a laser-printer-transparency + hot iron transfer to PCB for the screen, and standard PCB etchant to remove the exposed copper. After etching the PCB, and removing the toner from the copper traces, the copper traces act like the negative for a mold. Place etched PCB in mold container, pour the PDMS on top, set, remove from mold container. Then place glass cover on the PDMS." | 11:22 |
| kanzure | http://www.denic.de/en/denic/mitgliedschaft/mitgliederliste/country.jsp | 11:28 |
| kanzure | this is harder than I'd thought it be | 11:28 |
| kanzure | ybit: where were you going to go purchase it? | 11:29 |
| ybit | i have no money, so i can't | 11:29 |
| ybit | would love to | 11:29 |
| ybit | paycheck comes in about 2 weeks from now | 11:29 |
| ybit | and i'm sure it will be gone by then | 11:30 |
| kanzure | point me to a link and I'll grab it | 11:31 |
| ybit | www.domain.com is where it said it's available | 11:33 |
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| ybit | i usually go through gandi.net but they haven't updated yet, .de just became available | 11:33 |
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| ybit | funny thing is, it was gandi's newsletter that informed me of .de | 11:33 |
| kanzure | $40/yr | 11:34 |
| kanzure | argh | 11:34 |
| ybit | yeah | 11:34 |
| kanzure | is it worth it? | 11:34 |
| ybit | no | 11:34 |
| kanzure | are you sure? | 11:34 |
| ybit | yeah | 11:34 |
| ybit | to purchase a domain, it should only be ~$20 | 11:35 |
| ybit | i think domain.com is tagging on other services | 11:35 |
| ybit | i stand corrected o.O | 11:36 |
| kanzure | cline got back to me with an idea to use PCBs as molds for PDMS | 11:38 |
| kanzure | (the hot-iron-press PCB stuff) | 11:39 |
| * kanzure lurches around for food | 11:40 | |
| ybit | aha, domainmonger. $17/yr | 11:44 |
| ybit | not bad | 11:44 |
| ybit | anyway, if you are thinking of purchasing it to transfer to me, that's very nice of you, but don't bother. | 11:46 |
| ybit | it's not the price that bothers me, it's the extremely kind act, not sure why... but moving on.. | 11:47 |
| ybit | i'm liking mechanize | 11:48 |
| fenn | $40/yr is not too bad for a two letter domain that also happens to be a geek word | 11:57 |
| fenn | at worst you could tell someone cool about it, like chaos computer club | 11:59 |
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| kanzure | ybit: WWW::Mechanize? | 12:11 |
| kanzure | you should also check out the html-unit thingy that I told Mac about a few days ago | 12:11 |
| ybit | kanzure: http://htmlunit.sourceforge.net/ ? | 12:22 |
| kanzure | yes | 12:22 |
| ybit | grep shows nothing in irc and email. k | 12:22 |
| kanzure | wtf. /me wines | 12:22 |
| kanzure | *whines | 12:22 |
| ybit | hehe | 12:23 |
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| ybit | go-dove.com has had some interesting auctions lately | 12:28 |
| ybit | kanzure: what mailing, diybio or open manufacturing? i'm curious now why it isn't displaying | 12:33 |
| kanzure | why what isn't displaying? | 12:33 |
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| ybit | html-unit | 12:35 |
| ybit | in my grep searches | 12:35 |
| kanzure | I mentioned it in here a few days ago | 12:35 |
| kanzure | is it possible that you were offline? | 12:35 |
| ybit | oh | 12:35 |
| ybit | huh | 12:35 |
| ybit | oh well, i must have been temporarily offline | 12:36 |
| kanzure | making various small changes to http://heybryan.org/mediawiki/index.php/DIYbio_FAQ | 12:43 |
| ybit | new bio vid on ted: http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/bonnie_bassler_on_how_bacteria_communicate.html | 12:50 |
| faceface | ybit: any good? | 13:18 |
| faceface | I find ted a bit too 'pop' often | 13:18 |
| faceface | also can I make it play faster? | 13:20 |
| fenn | download and use mplayer | 13:21 |
| fenn | [] controls playback speed (there is some audio filter for pitch shifting too) | 13:21 |
| faceface | right | 13:21 |
| faceface | still, she's talking fast enough imho | 13:22 |
| faceface | some people are too slow | 13:22 |
| UtopiahGHML | we'll probably soon need a flash player to replace with Greasemonkey or sth else players from websites when they'll dedice to monetize them with ads. Then you'll be able to control speed directly there, hopefuly. | 13:23 |
| UtopiahGHML | \decide | 13:23 |
| faceface | so what lady? | 13:26 |
| faceface | I mean, swarms are cool, but this is like ... who cares? | 13:26 |
| fenn | it's the biological internet supercomputer, d00d | 13:27 |
| faceface | I am just crazy for swarms | 13:27 |
| faceface | I can't get enough of looking at those shoals of fish that behave as a super organism | 13:28 |
| faceface | I wish we could measure its IQ | 13:28 |
| fenn | i wish we had a reliable definition of intelligence with which to make a test for it | 13:28 |
| faceface | I wish we could abstract the physics of 'computation' from dyamical systems | 13:29 |
| fenn | um, we can | 13:29 |
| faceface | how? | 13:29 |
| fenn | study how they work | 13:29 |
| faceface | oh | 13:30 |
| faceface | by 'physics' I kind of meant somethign else I guess | 13:30 |
| fenn | "magic"? | 13:30 |
| faceface | yes | 13:30 |
| faceface | no wait | 13:30 |
| faceface | ;-) | 13:30 |
| faceface | its like we have a physics of mass action, and a physics of single bodies. | 13:31 |
| faceface | for multibody systems we can simulate | 13:31 |
| faceface | but there is a physics of the ensemble behaviour of dynamical systems | 13:31 |
| fenn | now you lost me | 13:31 |
| faceface | measures like ... what is it... ermm... statistical complexity iirc | 13:31 |
| faceface | fenn: lots of interactions = physics of 'statistical ensembles' i.e. pressure | 13:32 |
| * fenn turns up the threshold on the buzzword alarm | 13:32 | |
| faceface | few interactions, physics of simple things like pendulem | 13:32 |
| faceface | one moment | 13:32 |
| fenn | so, er, basically they're saying they can't predict the outcome because they don't have all the data | 13:33 |
| faceface | no, thats 'chaos' | 13:33 |
| faceface | this is something else | 13:33 |
| faceface | the interface between order and chaos = physical systems that compute | 13:33 |
| fenn | i guess | 13:34 |
| fenn | this definition of computation certainly has gotten watered down lately | 13:34 |
| faceface | can't find the paper http://www.cscs.umich.edu/~crshalizi/notebooks/complexity-measures.html | 13:34 |
| faceface | in this system, computation = memory + dynamisc | 13:34 |
| faceface | memory + dynamics | 13:34 |
| faceface | i.e. you need change, but you need memory - such systems have computational capacity | 13:35 |
| faceface | i.e. physics trys to make things REALLY abstract | 13:35 |
| faceface | computational mechanics | 13:35 |
| faceface | The statistical complexity of computational mechanics partakes of both natures, being the entropy of an abstract automaton; it can actually be calculated. (I presently have a couple of papers incubating where we do calculate the statistical complexity of various real-world processes.) | 13:36 |
| fenn | not just dynamics, it has to be deterministic; you can't make a computer out of a pile of garbage | 13:36 |
| faceface | so what they do is try to 'model' a data stream, then they measure the complexity of the model. | 13:36 |
| faceface | fenn: that system has no memory ;-) | 13:37 |
| faceface | the 'deterministic' aspect of the sytem comes from teh memory requirement. | 13:37 |
| faceface | i.e. if I put this tin can here now, I can come back to it later, and at that point it will still have 'meaning' for my internal state... in abstract terms | 13:37 |
| faceface | a pile of garbage is meaningless | 13:37 |
| fenn | a lot of examples of computation in nature turn out to be stochastic, often only failing once in a zillion operations | 13:38 |
| faceface | how do you mean? | 13:38 |
| fenn | well, like those conch seashells with triangles on them | 13:38 |
| fenn | it does follow some algorithm but it screws up every once in a while | 13:38 |
| fenn | or crystal formation or whatever | 13:38 |
| faceface | here is the paper http://www.santafe.edu/~cmg/compmech/pubs/ISCTitlePage.htm | 13:39 |
| faceface | Crutchfield has some interesting things to say | 13:39 |
| faceface | fenn: thats interesting | 13:39 |
| faceface | I'll have to go back to that ted talk - seems some interesting applications... | 13:40 |
| fenn | that abstract means nothing to me | 13:40 |
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| faceface | A technique is presented that directly reconstructs minimal equations of motion from the recursive structure of measurement sequences. ? | 13:46 |
| faceface | remember that paper where they reconstruct the equations of motion from the double pendulim? | 13:46 |
| faceface | the crux of it is this, a data stream of 1's is easy to model - one state, one state transition, one emission. | 13:47 |
| faceface | a random stream is similarly simple, one state, two state transitions, two emissions. | 13:47 |
| faceface | 'complexity' comes from complex models such as those that may produce complex data streams | 13:48 |
| faceface | here complexity is defined as 'required modelling effort' | 13:48 |
| faceface | anyway, its a bit hard to follow. | 13:48 |
| faceface | the science paper is really cool | 13:48 |
| ybit | faceface: i agree, but in my words, most ted talks are lame | 13:55 |
| faceface | funny, that is the first thing I wanted to type, then I changed it to pop | 13:56 |
| faceface | l8r dudes | 13:56 |
| faceface | g2g | 13:56 |
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| fenn | heh | 14:11 |
| fenn | I am a journalism major at NYU writing an article about DIYbio. I spoke to Bryan just yesterday about the DIYbio | 14:11 |
| fenn | group in Austin and he mentioned that you are working on getting a lab space organized for the DIYbio group. I was | 14:11 |
| fenn | hoping to get to talk to you a little bit about how you got involved and what the group is doing now. I would | 14:11 |
| fenn | really appreciate a bit of your time before my paper is due tomorrow! | 14:11 |
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| katsmeow | umm, asking for a reply in under 6 hrs on a paper he knew about for maybe 4 months is almost bad manners | 14:33 |
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| fenn | diybio hasn't been around for 4 months | 14:43 |
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| fenn | hmm early 2008? well it hadnt taken off really until 2009 or so | 14:46 |
| fenn | i think i'm going to have two virtual desktops, one 640x480 that is 'locked' to the display, the other a virtual desktop some zillion pixels or so, which i can pan over by using head mounted gyros | 14:50 |
| fenn | that way its like i'm looking through a small 'window' at the virtual world | 14:50 |
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| fenn | crap. since when were mems gyros $40 | 14:53 |
| fenn | well maybe i can get away with just accelerometers and a hall effect sensor | 14:57 |
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| fenn | man i suck at phone interviews | 15:36 |
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| kanzure | fenn: oh, you talked to the girl? | 18:15 |
| kanzure | also, I complained to somebody today about how people talk about mathematics by pointing aimlessly at a board (instead of, you know, using formal language and so on) | 18:17 |
| kanzure | and that person might be able to fix that O.o at least for my university classes | 18:17 |
| fenn | hah | 18:18 |
| fenn | good luck with that | 18:18 |
| * fenn off to the hardware store to get vee belts | 18:18 | |
| kanzure | "and then you take this and multiply it by that and then you do tha" | 18:18 |
| kanzure | blah. /me stabs the mathematician | 18:18 |
| * fenn wonders if there's anything on his todo list that needs attention | 18:20 | |
| fenn | should i spend all my money on a myvu or wait til i get more? | 18:20 |
| fenn | hm 37 minutes until they close.. bye | 18:22 |
| kanzure | http://heybryan.org/books/papers/lysis.html | 18:30 |
| kanzure | lysis bibliography | 18:30 |
| kanzure | also added three papers: http://heybryan.org/books/papers/?C=M;O=D | 18:30 |
| katsmeow-afk | this book is free till April ~20 : http://www.pyrrhichouse.co.uk/docs/faculty.pdf ( Researcher identifies just 8 patterns as the cause of all humor ) | 18:49 |
| kanzure | is that supposed to be funny? | 18:50 |
| katsmeow-afk | well, it's not in the listed patterns | 18:51 |
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| kanzure | http://voiced.device.mst.edu/groups/VisualizeIT/weblog/0b42a/Fifty_Most_Different.html | 23:17 |
| fenn | you should make a graph with the distance as edge length, then do a force directed layout with the part picture as the node | 23:19 |
| kanzure | distance between what? | 23:19 |
| kanzure | graphsynth (and maybe graphviz?) implements force directed layout. | 23:20 |
| kanzure | the distances are "between the different assembly designs" | 23:21 |
| fenn | graphviz can do it | 23:21 |
| kanzure | everything I say about that should be scarequoted because it's technically not very technical | 23:21 |
| kanzure | the assemblies aren't really assemblies since it's a 138x138 grid of "blah[i][j]=k means there are k connections between components of name i and components of name j" | 23:21 |
| fenn | well you must be measuring something | 23:21 |
| fenn | and '50 most different designs' doesn't really show a lot | 23:21 |
| fenn | not like anyone's going to look at your zip file | 23:22 |
| kanzure | heh | 23:22 |
| kanzure | so all that the other universities have to do is implement my four line R script to do clustering on the data | 23:23 |
| kanzure | campbell doesn't think they're up to it | 23:23 |
| kanzure | i.e., "slackers" | 23:23 |
| kanzure | which makes me wonder- considering how slacky this work is in the first place | 23:23 |
| kanzure | googling for "reagentless PCR" (I know, I know) brings up "Reagentless mechanical cell lysis by nanoscale barbs in microchannels for sample preparation" from the berkeley biopets. heh | 23:27 |
| kanzure | http://heybryan.org/books/papers/Diode%20laser%20generated%20ultrasound%20for%20human%20blood%20cell%20lysis.pdf | 23:28 |
| kanzure | LED-induced ultrasonic cavitation bubbles (think: inkjets);H | 23:28 |
| fenn | where do you get nucleotides from in reagentless pcr? | 23:30 |
| fenn | and/or how do you get the primers into the cells | 23:31 |
| fenn | that must be a high powered laser | 23:32 |
| kanzure | 808 nm | 23:34 |
| kanzure | I think they said something about taking it from a CD burner | 23:34 |
| fenn | hmm fennetic.net seems to be down | 23:37 |
| fenn | i added the belt drive today http://imagebin.org/44861 | 23:39 |
| kanzure | lathe? | 23:39 |
| fenn | you haven't seen it? | 23:39 |
| kanzure | I thought you had made a lathe, but it was already working? | 23:39 |
| katsmeow | i could have sworn you already had a lathe, fenn | 23:40 |
| fenn | i left the belt drive in bloomington | 23:40 |
| fenn | 500mW laser is not unreasonable | 23:41 |
| kanzure | are you back to the laser-driven micropump paper? | 23:42 |
| kanzure | (that last link I pasted) | 23:42 |
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| fenn | you should get the first reference in that paper (whole blood pumped by laser) | 23:43 |
| fenn | seems more useful than lysis | 23:43 |
| kanzure | I have it, one moment | 23:44 |
| kanzure | http://heybryan.org/books/papers/Whole%20Blood%20Pumped%20by%20Laser%20Driven%20Micropump.pdf | 23:44 |
| fenn | thx1138 | 23:46 |
| kanzure | good movie. what about it? | 23:47 |
| fenn | nvm | 23:47 |
| * fenn grumbles something about using a cd-rw drive directly | 23:48 | |
| fenn | what's the time constant on those marangoni flows? | 23:49 |
| kanzure | "will experience a rise in temperature of around 100 million celsius/sec for about 2-3 microseconds" <--- waah? | 23:49 |
| fenn | could you zap them once every time the cd spins around? | 23:49 |
| kanzure | marangoni flow time constant? I don't remember, but it was in the microsecond range of resolution IIRC | 23:50 |
| fenn | like if you had two cd's stuck together with fluid between | 23:50 |
| kanzure | though not this impressive. there was resistor heating that had to take place | 23:50 |
| kanzure | hrm. | 23:50 |
| kanzure | I was thinking of using the mirror + hard drive arm setup with a laser | 23:50 |
| kanzure | so that you had xy movement | 23:51 |
| fenn | sure, something like that | 23:51 |
| kanzure | but sandwiching two CDs together sounds like a quicker method | 23:51 |
| kanzure | (using a CD drive) | 23:51 |
| kanzure | you don't really get much motion options do you though | 23:51 |
| kanzure | hm.. | 23:51 |
| fenn | so i guess i made up the whole linear LED array in my mind.. it doesn't actually exist | 23:52 |
| kanzure | do CDs spin with continuous motion? | 23:52 |
| fenn | yes | 23:52 |
| kanzure | fantastic | 23:52 |
| kanzure | I've never been able to tell, since I don't have submicrosecond vision resolution | 23:52 |
| fenn | the positioner doesn't even have enough resoution to know where it is | 23:52 |
| fenn | it relies on the grooves in the cd to stay on track | 23:52 |
| fenn | with those coils on the lens | 23:52 |
| kanzure | they were using an objective lense in the laser micropump paper | 23:54 |
| kanzure | to focus the laser more specifically to 700 micrometers^2 | 23:54 |
| fenn | oo that paper's cool.. there's no valves or anything | 23:54 |
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