| --- Day changed Tue Apr 14 2009 | ||
| wrldpc | define | 00:02 |
|---|---|---|
| wrldpc | .. | 00:02 |
| wrldpc | nvm | 00:02 |
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| kanzure | paper has been archived | 08:10 |
| kanzure | paper-sharing mailing list: http://postbiota.org/mailman/listinfo/papers | 08:58 |
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| kanzure | is frankhardy == wildcatcad? | 10:51 |
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| kanzure | fenn: where is the lifecycle-assessment machine comic strip image? | 11:11 |
| kanzure | ok, found it | 11:12 |
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| faceface | http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/full/322/5904/1065 | 11:29 |
| faceface | I'm thinking about modelling embryogenisis for the purposes of 'growing form x' from a pre-defined genetic circuit | 11:29 |
| faceface | Reconstruction of Zebrafish Early Embryonic Development by Scanned Light Sheet Microscopy | 11:29 |
| faceface | what a crappy article! plz ignore me | 11:39 |
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| kanzure | Hello truename. | 12:41 |
| truename | hey.. I've been perusing the open manufacturing list and I saw a link to here | 12:41 |
| kanzure | Ah, awesome. | 12:42 |
| kanzure | You're in the right place. | 12:42 |
| truename | is this channel about biohacking, open manufacturing type stuff or just everything? | 12:42 |
| truename | ah k | 12:42 |
| kanzure | both | 12:42 |
| kanzure | truthfully those two things are the same thing | 12:42 |
| truename | yeah but open manufacturing has less well developed hardware for macroscopic self-replication.. so far | 12:44 |
| kanzure | heh, we're working on that :) | 12:44 |
| truename | hence the taking over the world topic.. | 12:45 |
| kanzure | that's just a joke about pinky and the brain | 12:46 |
| kanzure | we're not actually rabid world conquerors | 12:46 |
| truename | yeh | 12:46 |
| truename | i read that wired article posted to the list about hacker spaces.. i didn't realize there was a whole movement behind that.. I thought i was going to have to move to SF to go to techshop | 12:47 |
| truename | turns out there's a hackerspace type place assembling in pittsburgh | 12:48 |
| kanzure | so, techshop isn't hackerspaces, and techshop isn't fablab | 12:49 |
| kanzure | these are actually different individual movements | 12:49 |
| kanzure | techshop is a gym-model machine shop of sorts, where you aren't allowed to build your own tools | 12:49 |
| kanzure | fablabs tend to be more academic :/ | 12:49 |
| kanzure | hackerspaces tend to be more "let's glue LEDs together" | 12:49 |
| truename | which is about the extent of my hardware knowledge :( | 12:50 |
| truename | I'm a programmer, but the reprap and macro scale replication stuff fascinates me, and is why I'm here really | 12:52 |
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| katsmeow-afk | now i remember, i have all *!*@*hsd*.pa.comcast.net on ignore because of someone else | 12:56 |
| kanzure | truename: good, good. recently we've been playing around with http://pythonocc.org/ | 13:06 |
| kanzure | fenn: there's an API ref generator script if you haven't seen it, it comes with the svn repository. | 13:09 |
| kanzure | but that doesn't tell you anything, and I haven't seen the OCC 5.1 docs to compare it | 13:10 |
| kanzure | http://cc.aljazeera.net/ "creative commons repository" | 13:14 |
| kanzure | yay CC repos are starting to appear | 13:14 |
| kanzure | oh wait, nevermind, it's just a gallery of bullshit | 13:15 |
| fenn | are you talking about doxygen the documentation generator? | 13:17 |
| fenn | because that's totally worthless | 13:18 |
| fenn | i can get that info better and more accurately by looking at the source | 13:18 |
| fenn | the help file i'm looking at tells you really basic thing like what the acronyms stand for and what the software is capable of, and some tiny bits of sample code | 13:19 |
| fenn | wildcat-cad is graham somethingorother | 13:19 |
| fenn | frank hardy is just someone trying to play with it | 13:20 |
| kanzure | oh, were they using doxygen? they had some sort of html-frames thingy, and now that I think about it, it did look like standard doxygen generated stuff | 13:21 |
| * kanzure hunts for a microphone | 13:21 | |
| * katsmeow-afk presents one | 13:22 | |
| fenn | truename: techshop is bullshit anyway | 13:22 |
| truename | i think this concept of community run hacker spaces based on european computer clubs is more what I originally imagined techshop to be | 13:28 |
| fenn | no it's actually a bunch of greedy corporate scumbags setting up a 'company store' type of franchise.. people just haven't realized it yet | 13:39 |
| fenn | they get lots of free publicity from various publishing companies for some reason | 13:40 |
| fenn | or maybe it's not so free | 13:40 |
| fenn | pretty cool book on life cycle assessment http://www.inference.phy.cam.ac.uk/withouthotair/Contents.html | 14:11 |
| fenn | you have to manually edit the url to go to next page for some reason | 14:11 |
| fenn | only talks about energy though | 14:12 |
| fenn | heh there's a chapter about nuclear bombs | 14:27 |
| fenn | 'how much energy would the lucky recipients have received if the bombs were used?' | 14:28 |
| fenn | the answer: about 3 times the energy that went into making the bombs in the first place | 14:29 |
| genehacker | looks like they might have started making my reprap parts again | 15:05 |
| genehacker | saw the xaxis slide in a print tray | 15:06 |
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| fenn | genehacker: regarding delivery by UAV's you may wish to read appendix C for reassurance that it is indeed feasible and practical http://www.inference.phy.cam.ac.uk/sustainable/book/tex/ps/253.326.pdf | 15:48 |
| kanzure | Adapted liquid crystal display backlighting unit for densitometry of stained polyacrylamide electrophoresis gels | 15:52 |
| genehacker | hmmm... | 15:54 |
| genehacker | DNA synthesis is more fun though | 15:54 |
| genehacker | http://metasurfing.blogspot.com/2009/04/dawn-of-new-age-of-wind-power.html | 15:54 |
| genehacker | geez | 15:54 |
| genehacker | I am surprised at the amount of power a kite generator can put out | 15:54 |
| genehacker | 6MW with something the size of a 747 | 15:55 |
| genehacker | 10 kw with something about the size of a piano | 15:57 |
| genehacker | I need one of those | 15:57 |
| fenn | cool animation at the end.. | 16:03 |
| fenn | glad to see makani power is actually doing something | 16:03 |
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| genehacker | it might even be possible to keep a UAV up for months if you make it solar powered | 16:08 |
| fenn | why months? i'd say indefinitely | 16:22 |
| fenn | anyway the point was that the range and efficiency are not dependent on the scale of the plane, only on the fuel, so a small UAV could theoretically go 4000km | 16:23 |
| fenn | or 13000km fully loaded with fuel | 16:27 |
| splicer_ | ...interNIC:s whois look is strangely fucked up right now | 16:48 |
| splicer_ | (lookup) | 16:48 |
| splicer_ | http://www.internic.net/whois.html | 16:49 |
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| fenn | splicer_: why do you say that? looks fine to me | 16:52 |
| genehacker | mechanical breakdown fenn | 16:55 |
| splicer_ | hmm.. it works again... it was defunct for the last 5min... no data and different timestamp every time | 16:55 |
| fenn | i'd hope you could keep an electric motor going in clear skies for more than a few months | 16:55 |
| fenn | there's no weather at high altitude | 16:56 |
| genehacker | what about anvil clouds? | 16:57 |
| genehacker | hmmm... | 16:57 |
| fenn | you avoid them, or just go higher | 16:57 |
| genehacker | I guess if they were brushless | 16:57 |
| fenn | even hobby RC planes use brushless motors | 16:57 |
| fenn | so, no weather, no dust, what could go wrong? | 16:58 |
| genehacker | yeah they do | 16:58 |
| fenn | volcanic eruption? meteor impact? | 16:58 |
| fenn | laser beams? | 16:58 |
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| fenn | the only thing stopping this is the FAA | 16:59 |
| genehacker | hmmm | 17:04 |
| kanzure | volcanic eruption, meteor impact, laser beams | 17:05 |
| kanzure | things that can destroy the FAA? | 17:05 |
| genehacker | though solar powered UAVs tend to be small | 17:05 |
| genehacker | well the FAA has trouble regulating UAVs | 17:06 |
| genehacker | the technology is cheap enough and ubiquitous enough such that it is now unregulatable | 17:06 |
| fenn | we just need to make volcanoes, lasers, and meteors cheap and ubiquitous | 17:11 |
| kanzure | lasers: check | 17:22 |
| kanzure | meteors: check. just in the wrong place. | 17:22 |
| kanzure | vlcanoes: ssh, it's where I put my evil lair | 17:22 |
| fenn | kanzure: do you have a copy of fab.cba.mit.edu/git-repos ? | 17:22 |
| fenn | trying to make some space on my disk | 17:23 |
| kanzure | yes | 17:23 |
| kanzure | wait | 17:23 |
| kanzure | let me check before you delete | 17:23 |
| genehacker | http://www.clare.com/Products/SolarCell.htm | 17:23 |
| genehacker | a solar cell smaller than a penny | 17:23 |
| genehacker | what could one use this for? | 17:23 |
| kanzure | fenn: I have about.git, content.git, world.git, academy.git, classes.git | 17:23 |
| kanzure | anything else? | 17:24 |
| kanzure | why haven't you picked up your hard drive yet? | 17:24 |
| * kanzure just finished an interview with Singularity Hub | 17:24 | |
| fenn | not enough money | 17:25 |
| kanzure | no gas? | 17:26 |
| fenn | huh? | 17:26 |
| fenn | well the hard drive i'm looking at is $110 | 17:26 |
| kanzure | I offered you a free 500 GB hard drive | 17:26 |
| fenn | you did? | 17:26 |
| kanzure | remember? | 17:26 |
| kanzure | fuck.. | 17:26 |
| fenn | no | 17:26 |
| kanzure | blah | 17:26 |
| kanzure | well screw you, go ahead and try to delete stuff | 17:26 |
| kanzure | if you don't want it :) | 17:26 |
| fenn | no, i want more space, not to delete stuff | 17:26 |
| kanzure | heh. | 17:26 |
| fenn | i'd burn to dvd but my dvd's are locked up in the shop | 17:27 |
| kanzure | well come by any time | 17:27 |
| fenn | ok where do i go | 17:28 |
| kanzure | do you know where I live? | 17:28 |
| fenn | er... some dorm on campus? | 17:28 |
| kanzure | close enough | 17:28 |
| kanzure | if you can get to 24th and guadalupe, you're good. | 17:28 |
| kanzure | the interview: http://heybryan.org/chats/2009-04-14_SingularityHub_interview.html | 17:30 |
| splicer_ | I ordered 4TB of disk 2 days ago | 17:31 |
| fenn | "Once you go around the internet a certain number of times, you begin to run into the same people, or the same topics and similarly interesting things." it's true! | 17:31 |
| kanzure | splicer_: :) | 17:33 |
| splicer_ | ...i guess that's when you realize you know everything | 17:33 |
| kanzure | fenn: sarcasm? | 17:34 |
| splicer_ | (... gonna encrypt the suckers with TrueCrypt i think) | 17:34 |
| splicer_ | is it illegal to own pirated material in the us btw? ... is the posession illegal... like with drugs or unlicenced firearms? | 17:37 |
| bkero | Yes | 17:37 |
| kanzure | is my brain an unlicensed firearm? | 17:38 |
| splicer_ | can you get into trouble if someone looks at your ipod? | 17:38 |
| bkero | We have a thing that not many other countries have, which is a concept of privacy. | 17:38 |
| splicer_ | kanzure: na, unhinged maybe | 17:39 |
| bkero | The authorities would need a legitimate reason to look at your iPod. And then a reason to suspect that the music on your iPod is pirated. | 17:39 |
| bkero | Then they would need to prove that it's pirated. | 17:39 |
| kanzure | if they look at it without a warrant, you have the upper hand | 17:39 |
| splicer_ | has that ever happened? | 17:39 |
| kanzure | probably. | 17:39 |
| fenn | splicer_: my understanding is that it's only illegal to redistribute copyrighted material, not to possess it | 17:41 |
| splicer_ | that's the way I understood it too... same law was applied here in 2005. | 17:42 |
| fenn | there is this thing with RIAA claiming you have caused damage to their business by downloading copyrighted material, but that's not really legal as far as i know | 17:42 |
| fenn | it's just that most people find it easier to fork over $n dollars to RIAA than $M to lawyers etc | 17:43 |
| splicer_ | they have sued successfully | 17:43 |
| splicer_ | things were shiny here up until first of april... | 17:43 |
| splicer_ | then a law cam into effect that made it possible for copyright holders to request the owner of a specific IP-adress... used to be only the police could.. and they were not allowed to beacuse f the privacy concern... offence was not considered serious enough. | 17:45 |
| fenn | blah.. that'll just drive things further into darknets | 17:47 |
| fenn | i think they've sued people who dont even own computers | 17:48 |
| fenn | so apparently it doesn't even matter | 17:48 |
| splicer_ | yes... It was an eyeopener to me that most people don't actually understand what the net is. | 17:48 |
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| splicer_ | There is a lobby group here called the Anti Piracy Bureau... they wanted the recent legislation so they would be able to successfully procetute illegal filesharers... | 17:50 |
| kanzure | heh so a friend suggested that I start attending all of the advanced classes and just hang out | 17:50 |
| kanzure | make some comments about how the professors are all wrong | 17:50 |
| kanzure | have a good time. | 17:50 |
| splicer_ | ....when 'the Anti Piracy Bureau' went online, some kids registered 'The Piracy Bureau'... | 17:52 |
| splicer_ | ...they got a lot of press... and they ended up starting a political party... as a joke: 'The Pirate Party'. | 17:53 |
| splicer_ | ... but it's getting pretty big now to everyones surprise, their youth section is the second biggest of all political parties here | 17:54 |
| splicer_ | in 2 months there is an election for the general assembly of the european parliament, and it looks like 'The Pirate Party' are going to take seats there. | 17:56 |
| fenn | wow | 17:59 |
| fenn | i'll believe it when i see it | 17:59 |
| splicer_ | The Party switched primary focus from piracy to personal integrity on the net... there was an very unpopular echelon like law passed here late last year. | 18:04 |
| splicer_ | There is also the Pirate Bay Trial, which was extremely badly prepared by the prosecution... the ended up looking like assholes in the media. | 18:05 |
| fenn | personal integrity? | 18:08 |
| splicer_ | privacy.. sorry | 18:08 |
| fenn | ah are you referring to the packet logging of everything to/from russia? | 18:09 |
| splicer_ | yes.. that's the one... that would work wouldn't it? ; ) | 18:10 |
| fenn | seems like they'd just move their servers somewhere else | 18:10 |
| fenn | whoever it was they were trying to catch | 18:10 |
| splicer_ | ...or use encryption | 18:10 |
| fenn | encryption can't hide things after the fact | 18:11 |
| fenn | like "you sent xx gigs of data to this IP" | 18:11 |
| fenn | and they can find your keys and decode the data | 18:11 |
| fenn | for example by bashing in your door and taking the computer | 18:11 |
| splicer_ | ... and freezing my ram | 18:12 |
| fenn | eh, good luck with that | 18:12 |
| splicer_ | it actually works.. it seems ram keeps most of the data for at least 10min after power is swithed off... | 18:14 |
| splicer_ | it's possible to copy the ram without opening the machine even... one can plug in an USB drive.. boot to that and the only program the usb runs fetches the contents of ram. | 18:16 |
| fenn | i'll keep it in mind next time i'm raided by a TLA | 18:17 |
| fenn | reboot -> memtest | 18:17 |
| fenn | yes, officer? | 18:18 |
| fenn | just doing a monthly memtest, you know | 18:18 |
| splicer_ | it's something one would want the motherboard to do automatically | 18:18 |
| fenn | you know i'm surprised nobody's found any hardware backdoors yet | 18:19 |
| fenn | or at least they havent been publicized | 18:19 |
| splicer_ | you mean the rumors about chinese manufactued PC:s? | 18:20 |
| fenn | yeah, there's no reason why intel/U.S. government wouldnt do it too | 18:22 |
| splicer_ | is any of it actually manufactured in the US? | 18:23 |
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| splicer_ | my current processor is made in Malaysia | 18:23 |
| fenn | i read somewhere that no US manufacturers have the capability to make blank PCB materials | 18:25 |
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| splicer_ | I don't know... that's a fast changing world. | 18:26 |
| splicer_ | It seems if there were backdoors, it would be a weapon one could use only once. | 18:27 |
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| fenn | typical spy problem | 18:27 |
| fenn | if you've read any vernor vinge stuff he goes into it | 18:27 |
| splicer_ | I'm not so big on fiction | 18:28 |
| fenn | http://vrinimi.org/front9uns.jpg | 18:28 |
| fenn | your loss | 18:29 |
| splicer_ | maybe | 18:30 |
| genehacker | blank pcb materials? | 18:30 |
| fenn | http://vrinimi.org/back9rev.jpg | 18:30 |
| fenn | genehacker: fiberglass with copper foil, mostly | 18:31 |
| genehacker | what do you mean? | 18:31 |
| genehacker | for what are they used for? | 18:31 |
| genehacker | spying? | 18:31 |
| fenn | for making circuit boards | 18:32 |
| splicer_ | we were talking about where circuitry was manufactured | 18:32 |
| genehacker | oh | 18:33 |
| fenn | talking about why we haven't seen any chinese hardware backdoors in IC's yet | 18:33 |
| splicer_ | i really like the fact that I can encrypt my stuff so noone... absulutely noone can get to it. | 18:33 |
| genehacker | and the possibility of spy chips? | 18:33 |
| genehacker | how do you know the chinese can't | 18:33 |
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| genehacker | haven't you heard of content control chips? | 18:34 |
| fenn | heh like the V-chip? | 18:34 |
| genehacker | no | 18:35 |
| genehacker | forgot the exact name | 18:35 |
| genehacker | but it's a pretty scary chip | 18:35 |
| splicer_ | I didn't look into that... there were rumours but has anything ever been found? | 18:35 |
| fenn | mind control chips? | 18:35 |
| fenn | embedded in cell phone towers? | 18:35 |
| splicer_ | i have my tinfoil hat for that | 18:36 |
| genehacker | no | 18:36 |
| fenn | tinfoil hat can't stop aliens, dude | 18:36 |
| genehacker | http://mobile.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/06/05/1745239 | 18:36 |
| splicer_ | good... they can take me home | 18:36 |
| fenn | in fact, my sources inform me that most aluminum foil has embedded alien circuitry to amplify the mind control waves | 18:36 |
| genehacker | oh yeah the TPM chip | 18:37 |
| splicer_ | ... I'm all for bringing porn to the third world | 18:37 |
| genehacker | Other uses | 18:38 |
| genehacker | Almost any encryption-enabled application can in theory make use of a TPM, including: | 18:38 |
| genehacker | * Digital Rights Management | 18:38 |
| genehacker | * Software license protection & enforcement | 18:38 |
| genehacker | * Password protection | 18:38 |
| genehacker | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_Platform_Module | 18:38 |
| splicer_ | checking | 18:38 |
| genehacker | DRM and software license protection and enforcement chipped in is a bit scary | 18:40 |
| splicer_ | heh.. i hadn't heard of this ; ) | 18:42 |
| splicer_ | DRM is one of those things I thought we were done with... it was tried, it fucked things up, it failed. | 18:46 |
| splicer_ | One of the claims of 'The Piracy Bureau' is that file sharing systems are the new printing press. That procecuting TPB is like procecuting the new Gutenberg. | 18:58 |
| fenn | yep, except nobody's figured that out yet except pirates | 18:59 |
| genehacker | heh | 18:59 |
| fenn | see for example the lack of a debtorrent repository, or wikipedia torrent | 18:59 |
| fenn | or distributed youtube | 19:00 |
| fenn | surely someone's working on that O-o | 19:01 |
| genehacker | heh youtube has such a selection it's practically youtube | 19:01 |
| genehacker | and backup website that play removed videos | 19:02 |
| fenn | say that again, but make sense | 19:02 |
| splicer_ | fenn.. there are some cloud streaming systems... I know one of the skype guys has a project that works along those lines. | 19:03 |
| fenn | what is 'cloud'? i hear this all the time and it seems to mean different things to different people | 19:06 |
| kanzure | it means bullshit | 19:06 |
| fenn | it's like 'disconnected from reality computing' | 19:07 |
| splicer_ | what.. you don't like buzzwords all of a sudden? ; ) | 19:07 |
| splicer_ | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joost | 19:07 |
| splicer_ | (movies through distributed sources) | 19:08 |
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| fenn | i dont get how that could work with a flash player | 19:11 |
| genehacker | you'd be surprised what flash can do | 19:12 |
| kanzure | what people are talking about when they say cloud stuff, they're really just talking about the Amazon S3 API and the Google thingy API | 19:12 |
| kanzure | isn't flash just java except web2.0-ier? | 19:12 |
| splicer_ | yeah.. AS3 is. | 19:13 |
| fenn | flash doesnt run when the browser isn't open | 19:13 |
| kanzure | fenn: not true :( | 19:13 |
| kanzure | unfortunately :( | 19:13 |
| fenn | eh? | 19:13 |
| kanzure | flash can run as a separate app actually | 19:13 |
| fenn | but it's not running in the background as a p2p file sharing server | 19:14 |
| kanzure | ./flashinterpreterthingy blah.flashthingy & | 19:14 |
| fenn | so you're limited to the upload of users who are currently watching the show | 19:14 |
| kanzure | then run 'bg' | 19:14 |
| fenn | and 99% of DSL/cable modem are much higher download then upload rate | 19:14 |
| genehacker | http://www.eff.org/press/archives/2009/04/13 | 19:14 |
| kanzure | heybryan.org <- case and point | 19:15 |
| bkero | sdsl is fucking expensive | 19:15 |
| genehacker | linux is teh evils | 19:15 |
| bkero | what | 19:15 |
| fenn | oo scaryy "a black screen with white font which he uses prompt commands on" | 19:16 |
| fenn | i guess green on transparent is twice as evil | 19:16 |
| splicer_ | obvious terrorist | 19:17 |
| fenn | that whole thing is one non-sequitur after another | 19:17 |
| fenn | anyway, joost doesn't fit my definition of p2p | 19:18 |
| fenn | or distributed or whatever | 19:18 |
| fenn | it's a "user-supplemented" content distribution network | 19:19 |
| splicer_ | problem is, a torrent tracker is better. | 19:19 |
| splicer_ | yes | 19:19 |
| fenn | DHT is better | 19:19 |
| fenn | nothing can stop a DHT short of a nuclear bomb | 19:19 |
| fenn | and then some | 19:20 |
| fenn | multiple nuclear bombs | 19:20 |
| fenn | hum | 19:20 |
| splicer_ | hehe.. that came up in the trial btw.. it was one of the things the prosecution learned during trial. | 19:20 |
| fenn | what what? | 19:21 |
| bkero | genehacker: give the eff all of your manbabies | 19:21 |
| splicer_ | another thing was that the torrent usually pointed to multiple trackers... they assumed that because they downloaded the torrent file from TPB... the download used that tracker. | 19:21 |
| splicer_ | This they learned during the third day i think it was of... trial... they hadn't documented what tracker was used. | 19:22 |
| kanzure | wtf? srsly? | 19:23 |
| fenn | d'eaux | 19:23 |
| fenn | btw you can use multiple trackers at once | 19:23 |
| splicer_ | There were 2 withesses... that had been paid to download... one hadn't documented it.. the other one said in court he had done it.. but could not produce the documentation whan asked. | 19:24 |
| splicer_ | It was just a great trial. | 19:24 |
| splicer_ | The funniest thing was... the procecution claimed it was this well organized organization... it was supposed to be lead by a guy who owned a hosting company... he is wealthy... an heir to a big fortune... | 19:27 |
| splicer_ | so the prosecution claimed he was the brain... he had paid the youngsters to do this criminal act.. create TPB. | 19:27 |
| splicer_ | And after a few days... the whole trial was what.. 10 days maybe... after a few days... they start to understand that noone was in charge... it was a hacker space.... | 19:29 |
| splicer_ | this wasn't even on the prosecutors map... he just couldn't understand it. | 19:29 |
| fenn | they based a trial on two (paid) witnesses? | 19:31 |
| fenn | seems like it'd be worth having a pre-emptive fuckup trial just to muddy the waters | 19:32 |
| fenn | act like you're the prosecution but just do a terrible job of things | 19:32 |
| splicer_ | They had 2.5 years to prepare the thing... they fucked it up | 19:32 |
| splicer_ | There is a rumor why they were raided in the first place... this was discussed in the media at the time | 19:35 |
| fenn | um, because the RIAA said to? | 19:36 |
| splicer_ | yupp | 19:36 |
| fenn | just goes to show "if you want something done right, do it yourself" | 19:36 |
| splicer_ | the rumor is US authorities put pressure on swedish authorities and the swedish minister of justice ordered the raid. | 19:37 |
| splicer_ | ...after the raid TPB was down for 3 days | 19:41 |
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| fenn | kanzure: did you really have a plot of diybio posts per day? | 19:55 |
| * ybit wonders why the map of hackers linked to from diybio.org is titled "st. louis hackspaces' | 19:56 | |
| ybit | s/hackers/diybioers | 19:56 |
| ybit | hackerspaces*... | 19:57 |
| ybit | or something like that, it was last night when i looked @ it | 19:57 |
| * fenn wonders what "© Copyright DIYbio 2008" means | 19:57 | |
| ybit | o.O | 19:58 |
| ybit | hmm | 19:58 |
| ybit | maybe not exclusive, hopefully, surely | 19:58 |
| splicer_ | ...see.. time for the revolution... come join the biopunks ;) | 19:59 |
| ybit | that should use the kopimi imho | 19:59 |
| ybit | s/that/they | 19:59 |
| fenn | is diybio a corporation? (nonprofit?) | 19:59 |
| ybit | i haven't seen mention of it yet | 20:01 |
| ybit | guess jason and mackenzie would be the guys to ask.. | 20:01 |
| ybit | do they ever lurk here? | 20:01 |
| ybit | i saw a 'cowell' at one time | 20:01 |
| fenn | yes, cowell is cis-action | 20:02 |
| fenn | i remember some news piece that said 'so mac sold his car to start diybio' | 20:02 |
| fenn | which seems like an odd thing to do | 20:02 |
| fenn | mailing lists being free and all that | 20:03 |
| -!- genehacker [n=chatzill@wireless-128-62-96-53.public.utexas.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] | 20:04 | |
| ybit | perhaps to buy a bunch of cheap off-the-shelf products for the experiments during the meetings... | 20:04 |
| splicer_ | maybe to free the time they are putting in | 20:06 |
| splicer_ | I'm glad they do it | 20:06 |
| splicer_ | There will be others | 20:07 |
| fenn | other community labs you mean? | 20:07 |
| splicer_ | yeah | 20:07 |
| fenn | certainly; there already are | 20:07 |
| fenn | nyc and sf | 20:07 |
| splicer_ | what are those called? | 20:07 |
| ybit | huh, there's a diybio igem team this year?.. | 20:07 |
| splicer_ | really? | 20:08 |
| fenn | noisebridge and, uh.. lemme look | 20:08 |
| ybit | http://vimeo.com/3454392 it's mentioned @ 3:31 | 20:09 |
| fenn | ok nyc hasnt got a lab yet, they are sort of hanging around NYC-resistor i guess | 20:09 |
| fenn | seattle has a lab | 20:12 |
| splicer_ | NYC have a blog and a youtube channel I think: http://www.biopunk.org/diybionyc-taking-off-t110.html | 20:13 |
| splicer_ | Thank you for noisebridge... i missed that. | 20:13 |
| ybit | ah, | 20:14 |
| ybit | DIYbio iGEM teams, DIYbio Safety Working Group, and a DIYbio symposium at iGEM 2009 | 20:14 |
| ybit | 20:14 | |
| ybit | InboxX | 20:14 |
| ybit | 20:14 | |
| ybit | Reply to all | 20:14 |
| ybit | Forward | 20:14 |
| ybit | Reply by chat | 20:14 |
| ybit | Filter messages like this | 20:14 |
| ybit | 20:14 | |
| ybit | Add to Contacts list | 20:14 |
| ybit | Delete this message | 20:14 |
| ybit | Report phishing | 20:14 |
| ybit | Report not phishing | 20:14 |
| ybit | Show original | 20:14 |
| ybit | Show in fixed width font | 20:14 |
| ybit | Show in variable width font | 20:14 |
| ybit | Message text garbled? | 20:14 |
| fenn | so, nyc has "We have some gel boxes, a transfer apparatus, a big power supply, a dry incubator, a microfuge, and a water bath. But we have no place to put it yet. | 20:14 |
| ybit | Why is this spam/nonspam? | 20:14 |
| ybit | Mackenzie Cowell | 20:14 |
| ybit | to diybio, diybio-nyc, diybio-boston, diybio---seatt., DIYbio-SF, diybio-announce, diybio-chicago | 20:14 |
| ybit | 20:15 | |
| ybit | show details Apr 10 (4 days ago) | 20:15 |
| ybit | 20:15 | |
| ybit | 20:15 | |
| ybit | Reply | 20:15 |
| ybit | 20:15 | |
| ybit | 20:15 | |
| ybit | Several weeks ago the Director of iGEM (my old boss) asked me to drop by to chat. He basically told me iGEM wasn't going to allow amateur teams for 2009, despite earlier statements to the contrary, for two reasons: | 20:15 |
| ybit | 1. iGEM depends on the academic institution of each team to provide a safety framework for that team. Because there is no formal safety framework or guidelines or precedent for amateur teams working outside of traditional labs, iGEM is afraid of the potential safety liability and doesn't want amateur teams to participate until there is some kind of framework (2010!). | 20:15 |
| ybit | 2. Most of iGEM's funding comes from grants to support undergraduate education. A host of amateurs who are not undergraduates would be supported by grants for undergraduate education, which could be a situation the grantors wouldn't like. Randy didn't want to take that risk. | 20:15 |
| ybit | ack! | 20:15 |
| * ybit deserves a trout smacking | 20:15 | |
| ybit | meant to paste the email title.. | 20:15 |
| splicer_ | This is why I'm glad DIYbio exists. They can deal with this. The community needs the biobricks. | 20:17 |
| fenn | someone needs to make a plasmid with the entire briobricks library on it | 20:19 |
| fenn | then it's a simple matter of ordering pcr primers or making them from scratch | 20:20 |
| splicer_ | hehe.. neat | 20:20 |
| fenn | and then stick that plasmid in some e. coli and distribute it widely | 20:21 |
| splicer_ | ...would be a heavy plasmid probably | 20:21 |
| fenn | until we have desktop dna synthesizers capable of multi-kb oligo's, it's the only way to get widespread diffusion | 20:22 |
| fenn | otherwise it costs too much to prepare the library | 20:22 |
| fenn | filter paper is cheap; DNA purification is not | 20:23 |
| splicer_ | i don't know enough... isn't it just PCR? | 20:24 |
| splicer_ | I have this idea of biopunk in the back of my head... I don't want to deal with wetlabs... i want to design things in cads. | 20:25 |
| splicer_ | There is no intristic value in the DIY thing for me | 20:26 |
| genehacker_ | that's why I want to make a multi kb gene synth fenn | 20:27 |
| fenn | yeah | 20:27 |
| fenn | splicer_: it's essentially a software problem at this point | 20:27 |
| genehacker_ | i figure we could easily do at least 65,000 mer | 20:27 |
| fenn | splicer_: the biobricks people just havent provided a formal syntax for how to put the pieces together | 20:27 |
| fenn | genehacker_: i think you'll need some kind of error checking for that | 20:28 |
| genehacker_ | or error correction | 20:28 |
| fenn | same thing | 20:28 |
| fenn | have you looked at r. durans yet? | 20:28 |
| splicer_ | I feel a bit like when William Gibson bought his first pc... a mac.. and herd this scraping sound... and took it back to the store.. and was dismayed to learn that inside was a lowtech disk spinning really fast. | 20:28 |
| genehacker_ | yes | 20:28 |
| fenn | macs didnt have disks inside? | 20:29 |
| splicer_ | it was a mac | 20:29 |
| fenn | i mean, they didnt have a hard drive | 20:29 |
| genehacker_ | http://www1.cs.columbia.edu/~allen/PAPERS/grasp.plan.ra03.pdf | 20:30 |
| fenn | up until the quadro i think | 20:30 |
| splicer_ | Gibson explained that he thought computers were theese chrystalline pure structures. | 20:30 |
| genehacker_ | kanzure you interested in topology of mating parts right? | 20:30 |
| splicer_ | fenn: maybe it was the floppy | 20:31 |
| kanzure | ybit: there is no diybio igem team because igem doesn't like diybio | 20:31 |
| ybit | sí, i gathered that :) | 20:31 |
| genehacker_ | so what I want to know is how we can drive an epson printer head | 20:31 |
| kanzure | genehacker_: yes, I am interested in the topology of mating parts | 20:32 |
| kanzure | genehacker_: what do you mean 'drive' and what do you mean by 'head'? | 20:32 |
| kanzure | do you mean an inkjet cartridge holder thingy? | 20:32 |
| genehacker_ | the part that sprays the inkdroplets | 20:33 |
| genehacker_ | the thing that shoots the ink | 20:33 |
| genehacker_ | that you don't replace | 20:33 |
| fenn | why not just use the printer as-is? | 20:33 |
| kanzure | gasp! | 20:33 |
| genehacker_ | because then you have to build an anoxic chamber for it | 20:33 |
| fenn | besides that whole ink-level chip thing, which you can get around by not using an epson printer, but HP instead | 20:33 |
| fenn | well you're going to have to do that anyway | 20:34 |
| genehacker_ | there is a reason why I want to use an epson head | 20:34 |
| fenn | HP makes piezo heads now | 20:34 |
| genehacker_ | replaceable piezo heads? | 20:34 |
| genehacker_ | the epson printer I have doesn't have an inklevel sensor | 20:34 |
| genehacker_ | and there are various work arounds for that anyway | 20:35 |
| genehacker_ | if HP makes replaceable piezo heads then we have a winner | 20:35 |
| fenn | well i'm feeling lazy and dont see anything right off the bat | 20:36 |
| fenn | so good luck with your printer endeavors | 20:36 |
| genehacker_ | well we just need something that can dispense a precise amount of liquid | 20:36 |
| kanzure | I know it's useless, but there was a neat paper about how to use headphones to dispense precise amounts of liquid | 20:38 |
| genehacker_ | that's not useless | 20:38 |
| genehacker_ | link to paper | 20:38 |
| genehacker_ | this is better than a printer head | 20:39 |
| genehacker_ | printer heads are hard to find | 20:39 |
| kanzure | http://heybryan.org/books/papers/Controlled%20deposition%20of%20picoliter%20amounts%20of%20fluid%20using%20an%20ultrasonically%20driven%20micropipette.pdf | 20:39 |
| genehacker_ | wrt headphones | 20:39 |
| kanzure | Controlled deposition of picoliter amounts of fluid using an ultrasonically driven micropipette | 20:39 |
| kanzure | "composed of a micropipette astened to a lead zirconate titanate piezoelectric" | 20:40 |
| kanzure | haha. duct tape! | 20:40 |
| genehacker_ | a microplotter, hmmm... | 20:40 |
| genehacker_ | how viscous a liquid can this thing put out? | 20:40 |
| kanzure | I saw a recent paper that plotted viscosity of fluids and something about inkjet printers | 20:42 |
| genehacker_ | if it pulls liquid back into the syringe it might be a problem | 20:42 |
| genehacker_ | hmmm | 20:42 |
| genehacker_ | why not make an array of these things to shoot colloidal silica for quick ceramics | 20:43 |
| kanzure | don't you knowh ow to operate a pipettor? | 20:43 |
| kanzure | huh? | 20:43 |
| kanzure | an array of these giant things? | 20:43 |
| genehacker_ | well I must go now | 20:43 |
| kanzure | hm. this could be used to manufacture small dots of ice. | 20:44 |
| splicer_ | kanzure, you're in the BioBricks Foundation? | 20:44 |
| splicer_ | There is no hard and fast rule that hinders DIY:ers from getting hold of BioBricks right? It's just that the question hasn't come up? | 20:48 |
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| fenn | splicer_: there is supposed to be a material transfer agreement but in some contexts that can get bypassed | 21:08 |
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| fenn | can't decide whether encryption on a pcr machine is overkill or not | 21:11 |
| fenn | it would raise the cost and development complexity significantly | 21:11 |
| splicer_ | fenn: thanks... interesting form of open source then. | 21:12 |
| -!- splicer_ is now known as splicer_afk | 21:14 | |
| kanzure | fenn: thanks for those diybio emails. | 21:35 |
| kanzure | I feel like I'm herding really stupid cats there sometimes | 21:35 |
| kanzure | it's like being on damage patrol duty :( | 21:35 |
| fenn | i figure nothing's permanent anyway | 21:36 |
| kanzure | did you read the interview transcript? | 21:37 |
| fenn | yeah | 21:37 |
| kanzure | was there anything I said that was particularly stupid? | 21:37 |
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| fenn_ | not that i recall.. i'm not sure i want to be associated with "keiki gels" though :P | 21:38 |
| kanzure | heh. | 21:38 |
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| -!- fenn_ is now known as fenn | 21:39 | |
| kanzure | blah, got another email saying I qualify for an fMRI study | 21:56 |
| kanzure | but I have glasses and no contacts | 21:56 |
| kanzure | "would you like a free fMRI study of your brain?" | 21:57 |
| kanzure | "uh, hell yes?" | 21:57 |
| fenn | i feel like i should go to the shop and work on stuff | 22:05 |
| fenn | but i'd rather watch anime.. | 22:05 |
| fenn | such a cruel world | 22:05 |
| kanzure | you could do .. both? | 22:29 |
| fenn | no, unfortunately | 22:30 |
| fenn | once i get my wearable online | 22:30 |
| kanzure | pfft, laptop? | 22:30 |
| kanzure | um, anyway | 22:30 |
| kanzure | Campbell was trying to propose a new project to me today | 22:30 |
| kanzure | but I set my foot down and said no, | 22:31 |
| kanzure | so now we're really really doing skdb | 22:31 |
| fenn | heh | 22:31 |
| kanzure | just need to write up some timeline goals for him | 22:31 |
| kanzure | and I think he's willing to find some funding for it or something | 22:31 |
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| kanzure | funding in terms of, I mean, stuff to pay me or others or something | 22:32 |
| fenn | i dont even know what skdb needs atm | 22:32 |
| kanzure | huh? I do. I was going to go off and do that face stuff, but then I got distracted and I've been reading papers for the last 36 hours | 22:32 |
| fenn | right | 22:32 |
| genehacker | what use would ice dots be? | 22:33 |
| fenn | for making molds | 22:33 |
| kanzure | genehacker: you could pour polymers over it and they set | 22:33 |
| kanzure | yeah | 22:33 |
| kanzure | but would they melt too quickly? I dunno | 22:33 |
| genehacker | oh rapid freeze prototyping | 22:33 |
| kanzure | yeah | 22:33 |
| fenn | just use polymers that cure at <0C | 22:33 |
| genehacker | I was thinking you were using them for some sort of new food | 22:33 |
| fenn | heh like dippin dots | 22:33 |
| kanzure | fenn: we have those? | 22:34 |
| fenn | ... and this machine makes DIPPIN DOTS | 22:34 |
| fenn | *ding* | 22:34 |
| kanzure | yay | 22:34 |
| genehacker | you could also use sodium acetate | 22:34 |
| genehacker | if you could find away to shoot it out rather than contacting the surface | 22:34 |
| kanzure | blow air | 22:35 |
| genehacker | that might cause the sodium acetate to crystallize | 22:35 |
| kanzure | no, the water I mean | 22:36 |
| kanzure | to make the drop fall off of the pipette tip | 22:36 |
| kanzure | what the fuck jonathan | 22:38 |
| kanzure | "graphics are a requirement" | 22:38 |
| kanzure | burn in hell. give me a shell or give me death | 22:38 |
| fenn | graphics in this case being some html forms | 22:39 |
| fenn | i mean there's nothing graphical about PCR really | 22:39 |
| fenn | a progress bar? what? | 22:40 |
| fenn | ok off to the shop to get some dvd-r's and maybe do some electronics | 22:41 |
| genehacker | graphics are a requirement for PCR? | 22:44 |
| kanzure | genehacker: Jonathan Cline is making a thermocycler | 22:44 |
| kanzure | so he wants to write some software for his laptop | 22:44 |
| kanzure | and he wants to make it graphics-only | 22:44 |
| kanzure | instead of something that you don't have to look at | 22:44 |
| genehacker | whatisthisidon'teven | 22:45 |
| genehacker | is it going to look like something out a scifi movie? | 22:45 |
| kanzure | uh? why would I know the answer to that? | 22:45 |
| genehacker | I don't know either | 22:46 |
| genehacker | a timer perhaps? | 22:46 |
| fenn | ... or not. anyway i'm bored | 22:46 |
| genehacker | a couple of LEDs? | 22:47 |
| fenn | pcr machines mostly look sort of like an overgrown calculator | 22:50 |
| fenn | calculator + test tube tray | 22:51 |
| fenn | i dont imagine this would be much different | 22:51 |
| fenn | kanzure: i've read all those papers you just forwarded | 22:55 |
| * fenn pats self on back and puts email in 'done' tray | 22:55 | |
| genehacker | good point | 22:56 |
| kanzure | fenn: I don't know if that's good or bad. some of them were bad papers. | 22:57 |
| fenn | is 11pm on a tuesday too late for meatspace activities? | 22:57 |
| kanzure | if you have a giant concrete building to play in? nah | 22:57 |
| fenn | i mean primate social activities | 22:58 |
| fenn | i dont think anyone is in the concrete building | 22:58 |
| fenn | at least les isn't answering any phones | 22:58 |
| fenn | not that that means anything | 22:58 |
| * fenn grumbles about keys | 22:58 | |
| fenn | *pout* | 22:58 |
| fenn | ping reply! response: negatory | 22:59 |
| genehacker | no | 23:00 |
| kanzure | fenn: I still don't have keys to ADL | 23:00 |
| genehacker | it is never too late | 23:00 |
| genehacker | it's called nightlife | 23:00 |
| * kanzure makes a bat-face | 23:00 | |
| * fenn puts on night-vision goggles | 23:03 | |
| * kanzure mounts ultrasonic transducers on his forehead and runs into things | 23:05 | |
| kanzure | or something | 23:05 |
| fenn | chair legs :P | 23:05 |
| fenn | ok so i could use a 500GB hard drive and some fresh air | 23:06 |
| fenn | or any hard drive really | 23:06 |
| kanzure | I'll probably be asleep sooner rather than later, so if you want to get it tonight, now would be good | 23:06 |
| fenn | ok; assuming i'm at 24 & guadalupe, then what? | 23:06 |
| kanzure | you go to the big tall white building and call me. | 23:07 |
| kanzure | it's one street to the west of guadalupe | 23:07 |
| fenn | by subway and italian longhorn? | 23:08 |
| kanzure | so coming up from the south, you could probably take 'san antonio' instead of guadalupe, and get a space out in front. | 23:08 |
| kanzure | yep | 23:08 |
| kanzure | subway is directly under me. | 23:08 |
| fenn | ok see you in 20 mins | 23:08 |
| --- Log closed Tue Apr 14 23:09:52 2009 | ||
| --- Log opened Tue Apr 14 23:11:54 2009 | ||
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| -!- Irssi: #hplusroadmap: Total of 21 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 21 normal] | 23:11 | |
| -!- Irssi: Join to #hplusroadmap was synced in 1 secs | 23:11 | |
| kanzure | blah, I somehow was booted from my KDE session by removing a hard drive that wasn't wired up? I probably bumped something :/ | 23:12 |
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