| --- Day changed Wed Apr 22 2009 | ||
| -!- tarbo2 [n=me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] | 00:16 | |
| kanzure- | Prefrontal norepinephrine determines attribution of 'high' motivational salience | 00:17 |
|---|---|---|
| kanzure- | http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=2516177 | 00:17 |
| katsmeow | now all i need is a prefrontal drip to give me a psychopathology relavant to getting up in the morning? | 00:26 |
| katsmeow | i wonder if a tilting bed might be safer and cheaper | 00:27 |
| -!- katsmeow is now known as katsmeow-afk | 00:31 | |
| -!- tarbo2 [n=me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has joined #hplusroadmap | 00:37 | |
| -!- xp_prg [n=xp_prg3@c-24-130-14-113.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #hplusroadmap | 00:54 | |
| kanzure- | "generation of acoustic waves in neural tissue" | 00:57 |
| kanzure- | " | 01:03 |
| kanzure- | " | 01:03 |
| kanzure- | Laser-induced photoacoustic injury of skin: effect of inertial confinement | 01:03 |
| kanzure- | well that's somewhat close | 01:03 |
| kanzure- | except it's skin instead of neurons | 01:04 |
| kanzure- | "We believe this extensive bone damage, following 193 nm irradiation, to be a result of photoacoustic waves propagating in the bone following each pulse" | 01:06 |
| kanzure- | "Pressure waves, which are generated by intense laser radiation, can permeabilize | 01:06 |
| kanzure- | the stratum corneum (SC) as well as the cell membrane" | 01:06 |
| kanzure- | hm. infrared stimulation of auditory neurons. | 01:14 |
| * kanzure- sees sounds, or something | 01:14 | |
| kanzure- | at first I was thinking of trying to use the laser micropump methods of a highly focused LED to generate some intense ultrasound cavitation bubble shockwave thingy | 01:15 |
| kanzure- | but I guess infrared lasers produce neuronal effects without photomechanical pressure waves | 01:15 |
| -!- xp_prg [n=xp_prg3@c-24-130-14-113.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] | 01:35 | |
| fenn | neurophone was based on pressure waves induced by electric fields (piezo effect maybe?) | 03:29 |
| fenn | except deaf people with broken auditory neurons could hear it even | 03:29 |
| -!- genehacker [n=chatzill@wireless-128-62-98-46.public.utexas.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] | 04:03 | |
| -!- genehacker [n=chatzill@wireless-128-62-98-46.public.utexas.edu] has joined #hplusroadmap | 04:49 | |
| -!- nsh [n=nsh@host86-133-35-168.range86-133.btcentralplus.com] has joined #hplusroadmap | 05:42 | |
| -!- wrldpc [n=worldpea@pool-173-48-214-204.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #hplusroadmap | 06:20 | |
| -!- genehacker [n=chatzill@wireless-128-62-98-46.public.utexas.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] | 06:25 | |
| -!- genehacker [n=chatzill@wireless-128-62-98-46.public.utexas.edu] has joined #hplusroadmap | 07:26 | |
| kanzure | fenn: I still find that hard to believe. shouldn't they have heard at least static first until they could figure out how to descramble the signal? | 07:42 |
| kanzure | also, that "neuroenhancing drugs" article was right-on. I think "Alex" is codename for "Bryan" | 07:43 |
| faceface | kanzure: is that the recent drugs for sci article? | 08:19 |
| kanzure- | no, it's the one from the newyorker | 08:23 |
| kanzure- | "The underground world of neuroenhancing drugs" | 08:23 |
| kanzure- | it was posted to postbiota.org's "tt" mailing list | 08:23 |
| kanzure- | (transhumantech) | 08:23 |
| kanzure | http://heybryan.org/~bbishop/docs/neuroenhancing.html | 08:27 |
| faceface | ty | 08:30 |
| faceface | someone recently mentioned a letter to a journal saying scientists should be allowed to take these | 08:30 |
| kanzure | huh the article mentions ImmInst | 08:31 |
| wrldpc | http://www.filedropper.com/themitpress-structureandinterpretationofcomputerprogramswizardbook19962nded | 08:38 |
| kanzure- | a list of recent emails sent to papers@postbiota.org | 08:46 |
| kanzure- | "Single cell transfection using plasmid decorated AFM probes" | 08:46 |
| kanzure- | "Genetically encoded fluorescent sensors of membrane potential" | 08:46 |
| kanzure- | "Light-activation of gene function in mammalian cells via ribozymes" | 08:47 |
| kanzure- | "Application of infrared light to in vivo neural stimulation" | 08:47 |
| kanzure- | anyone pick up on a trend yet? | 08:47 |
| kanzure- | btw, for the light-activation article- if you have a regulatory network, you could ideally encode it such that there are three promoters or something | 08:49 |
| kanzure- | and these three promoters respond to different wavelengths of light | 08:49 |
| kanzure- | so that you can get 3D targeting within the brain | 08:49 |
| kanzure- | the region that would activate would be the one where the three beams intersect and there's sufficient stimulation | 08:49 |
| kanzure- | oh uh another one is | 08:59 |
| kanzure- | "Remote control of neuronal activity with a light-gated glutamate receptor" | 08:59 |
| kanzure- | "Remote excitation of neuronal circuits using low-intensity, low-frequency ultrasound" | 08:59 |
| kanzure- | "Prefrontal norepinephrine levels determines attribution of high motivational salience" | 08:59 |
| kanzure- | "Gene silencing in mammalian cells with light-activated antisense agents" | 09:00 |
| kanzure- | for links to those papers, see the twitter feed http://twitter.com/kanzure | 09:12 |
| katsmeow-afk | Cost of Peer Review Exceeds the Cost of Giving Every Researcher a Grant | 09:27 |
| katsmeow-afk | Scott Leslie passed this along. "We show that the $40,000 (Canadian) cost of preparation for a grant application and rejection by peer review in 2007 exceeded that of giving every qualified investigator a direct baseline discovery grant of $30,000 (average grant). | 09:27 |
| katsmeow-afk | This means the Canadian Federal Government could institute direct grants for 100% of qualified applicants for the same money." Ironically, this report is published in a subscription-locked peer-reviewed paper, the total cost of which is entangled in the mechanisms for selecting which papers are good enough to publish. | 09:27 |
| katsmeow-afk | Pot, meet kettle. A.J. Cann, Science of the Invisible, April 21, 2009 http://scienceoftheinvisible.blogspot.com/2009/04/cost-of-peer-review-exceeds-cost-of.html | 09:28 |
| katsmeow-afk | related at http://www.downes.ca/news/OLDaily.htm | 09:28 |
| -!- elias` [n=me@unaffiliated/elias/x-342423] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] | 09:31 | |
| kanzure- | hah | 09:34 |
| kanzure- | katsmeow-afk: awesome :) | 09:34 |
| -!- samrose [n=samrose@c-24-11-214-181.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #hplusroadmap | 09:42 | |
| kanzure- | anybody know of any lifetime studies of receptors in dendrites? i.e., are they replaced or do they stay put? | 09:57 |
| kanzure- | if they are replaced- or, you know what, nevermind | 09:57 |
| kanzure- | if you couple GFP to the expression of AMPA receptors, then you will have a readout of synaptic plasticity | 09:58 |
| -!- elias` [n=me@cs78208074.pp.htv.fi] has joined #hplusroadmap | 09:58 | |
| kanzure- | at least from when you got that modified gene inserted into your neurons | 09:58 |
| kanzure- | which probably isn't all too interesting- it's the underlying (original) plasticity that took place that might be more interesting or more usable in some perverse sense of the word "usable" | 09:59 |
| kanzure- | Henry Markram and friends were doing some study about recombinant neurotransmitter receptor genes or something- that allows for the wide range of receptor recognition sites- | 10:04 |
| kanzure- | but now I don't remember if there have been studies that visualize the location of individual receptors or anything | 10:04 |
| kanzure- | yay somebody has done this | 10:10 |
| kanzure- | awesome | 10:10 |
| kanzure | awesomeness: http://heybryan.org/books/papers/Functional%20expression%20of%20distinct%20NMDA%20channel%20subunits%20tagged%20with%20green%20fluorescent%20protein%20in%20hippocampal%20neurons%20in%20culture.pdf | 10:11 |
| katsmeow-afk | New 167-processor Chip Is Super-fast, Ultra Energy-efficient | 10:28 |
| katsmeow-afk | April 21, 2009 | 10:28 |
| katsmeow-afk | Maximum clock speed for the 167-processor AsAP is 1.2 gigahertz (GHz), but at slower speeds its energy efficiency soars. Twelve chips working together could perform more than half-a-trillion operations per second (.52 Tera-ops/sec) while using less power than a 7-watt light bulb. | 10:28 |
| katsmeow-afk | more at http://www.news.ucdavis.edu/search/news_detail.lasso?id=9082 | 10:28 |
| katsmeow-afk | my concern is that the address/data buss if effectively 167 times slower (for each cpu) than a single cpu chip | 10:29 |
| myelinzar | which data bus are we talking about? the one onboard the cpu? | 10:30 |
| myelinzar | if it's a motherboard issue, just design a new mobo | 10:30 |
| katsmeow-afk | if every cpu accesses the buss at the same time, the buss speed as seen by the last cpu is 6 MEGAhertz | 10:31 |
| katsmeow-afk | the one to system mobo ram and i/o | 10:31 |
| katsmeow-afk | 6 Mhz is slower than the 1990 8 bit ISA buss on pcs | 10:32 |
| katsmeow-afk | likewise, if they all had files on a harddrive to access, the drive access times will be horrendously bad,, leading some to make up huge drive banks | 10:33 |
| katsmeow-afk | 8ms latency, not counting cache problems, time 167 accesses, is 1.336 seconds access time | 10:34 |
| katsmeow-afk | that's *forever* on a 1.2ghz cpu | 10:34 |
| katsmeow-afk | it might as well be a propellor chip | 10:35 |
| katsmeow-afk | is there a solution to this problem? | 10:35 |
| katsmeow-afk | piggyback a terabyte of sram right on the cpu chip? | 10:35 |
| katsmeow-afk | unless,,,, they mean the max clock is 1.2ghz,, or 7.2mhz per cpu? | 10:38 |
| myelinzar | decisions, decisions. go to lab meeting, or stay on the phone with the WSJ. | 10:41 |
| myelinzar | added some images: http://heybryan.org/books/papers/?C=M;O=D | 10:45 |
| katsmeow-afk | what is the purpose of "C=M;O=D" ? | 10:48 |
| myelinzar | O=D or O=A means descending or ascending | 10:52 |
| myelinzar | C=M for some reason means sort by date modified | 10:52 |
| myelinzar | I wonder if I could make pinkarmy as a co-op opportunity for me | 10:52 |
| myelinzar | that's super win-win | 10:53 |
| katsmeow-afk | oh,, i have seen such vars in urls before, and the page returned for diferent vars settings have been identical, regardless of the vars, their values, or their ordering | 10:53 |
| myelinzar | really? | 10:54 |
| myelinzar | try clicking the links at the top of the page | 10:54 |
| * katsmeow-afk nods,, it's a pain in datamining the internet, making multiple fetches for the same data | 10:54 | |
| katsmeow-afk | umm,,, i am speaking of other sites, not the url you gave just a min ago | 10:55 |
| katsmeow-afk | i have not visited that url, so am not talking about it | 10:55 |
| myelinzar | the images are very purty | 10:55 |
| myelinzar | http://heybryan.org/books/papers/Functional%20expression%20of%20distinct%20NMDA%20channel%20subunits%20tagged%20with%20green%20fluorescent%20protein%20in%20hippocampal%20neurons%20in%20culture.5.png | 10:55 |
| katsmeow-afk | i am speaking of historical ,, err,, history, of sites with those sorts of vars appended to the url | 10:55 |
| katsmeow-afk | glad i am not on dialup now, that's a 420k byte pic! | 10:57 |
| myelinzar | and if you didn't see this yesterday, you're just a bad person: http://heybryan.org/books/papers/brainbow/brainbow2.jpg | 10:58 |
| -!- nsh [n=nsh@host86-133-35-168.range86-133.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] | 10:59 | |
| -!- nsh [n=nsh@host86-133-35-168.range86-133.btcentralplus.com] has joined #hplusroadmap | 11:00 | |
| myelinzar | http://packages.python.org/quantities/ | 11:34 |
| faceface | now I remember why I stopped hanging out in here... its too interesting! | 11:38 |
| faceface | kanzure: receptors in neurones should be turned over rapidly | 11:38 |
| faceface | the half life for most proteins is 'quite low' | 11:38 |
| myelinzar | can you cite a paper that shows the half life of a receptor protein? | 11:38 |
| -!- samrose [n=samrose@c-24-11-214-181.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] | 11:41 | |
| -!- xp_prg [n=xp_prg3@99.2.31.217] has joined #hplusroadmap | 11:56 | |
| myelinzar | faceface: please? | 12:06 |
| faceface | myelinzar: please what? | 12:07 |
| faceface | oh sorry | 12:07 |
| faceface | good question | 12:07 |
| faceface | one thing this article neglects (http://scienceoftheinvisible.blogspot.com/2009/04/cost-of-peer-review-exceeds-cost-of.html) is that peer review happens all the time. People don't want to seem dumb, so its another reason to free up grant funding. | 12:13 |
| faceface | myelinzar: this looks related : http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/119706577/abstract?CRETRY=1&SRETRY=0 | 12:14 |
| faceface | PROTEIN TURNOVER IN CELL-ENRICHED FRACTIONS FROM RABBIT BRAIN | 12:14 |
| faceface | The rate of incorporation of tritiated leucine and the turnover rates of protein during 10 days was studied in the bulkprepared cell fractions. The rate of incorporation into the nerve cell fraction was approximately three times greater than in the glia fraction. | 12:15 |
| faceface | but there seems to be a lot of literature out there | 12:15 |
| myelinzar | how is it then that there is a relatively stable concentration of receptors then? | 12:15 |
| faceface | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protein_turnover | 12:15 |
| faceface | myelinzar: regulatory processes ;-) | 12:16 |
| myelinzar | see, the way that synaptic plasticity works is that NMDA stimulation coupled with AMPA stimulation causes the incorporation of further AMPA receptors | 12:16 |
| faceface | degredateion is highly regulated | 12:16 |
| faceface | ing? | 12:16 |
| myelinzar | but if the AMPA receptors are being "refreshed", then how is the incorporation of new receptors regulated so as to not over-express or under-express the receptors ? | 12:16 |
| faceface | oh... I thought that was a question | 12:16 |
| faceface | myelinzar: is this during brain maturation or during old age? | 12:16 |
| myelinzar | during any time | 12:17 |
| faceface | i.e. child -> adult or adult -> death? | 12:17 |
| faceface | oh | 12:17 |
| myelinzar | that's how synaptic plasticity regularly works | 12:17 |
| faceface | I see | 12:17 |
| myelinzar | but if the proteins are refreshed, how are the levels maintained properly? | 12:17 |
| myelinzar | since the levels are specific to synaptic plasticity / learning | 12:17 |
| faceface | well, cellular regulation of expression and protein degredation is a big field | 12:17 |
| faceface | there are several mechanisms of regulation that are more or less independent | 12:18 |
| myelinzar | but how would it know how many proteins to express? there would have to be some internal regulation feedback amplifier circuit or something | 12:18 |
| faceface | I don't want to fob you off with a vague answer, but teh real answer is that it is not simple | 12:18 |
| myelinzar | that would have a range of possible exprssion values or something | 12:18 |
| myelinzar | hrm | 12:18 |
| faceface | yes exactly | 12:18 |
| faceface | some very highly expressed proteins are present in the genome many times for example | 12:18 |
| faceface | others have 'efficient' promoters | 12:19 |
| faceface | others have 'efficient' rna | 12:19 |
| faceface | others have rna degredation | 12:19 |
| faceface | others have protein degredation | 12:19 |
| faceface | any of these steps can (and do) have regulatory pathways related to them | 12:19 |
| faceface | (often more than one) | 12:20 |
| faceface | the basics are well known, well understood, and in some cases well characterized | 12:20 |
| faceface | but new pathways of gene regulation are being discovered all the time. | 12:20 |
| myelinzar | I'm sure people have studied the regulatory networks of synaptic plasticity already | 12:21 |
| faceface | one way to get round this complexity (IMHO) is to somehow develop models that rely on teh 'cyberneic principle', matching up to reality and augmented with what we know, but allowed to fit w.r.t. what we don't know. | 12:21 |
| faceface | perhaps | 12:21 |
| faceface | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protein_turnover | 12:21 |
| faceface | http://scholar.google.co.uk/scholar?q=protein+expression+regulation+neuronal+plasticity&hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:official&um=1&ie=UTF-8&oi=scholart | 12:22 |
| faceface | Characterization of a novel protein regulated during the critical period for song learning in the zebra finch. | 12:22 |
| faceface | http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7646890 | 12:22 |
| myelinzar | btw I'm working on a firefox plugin for using Google Scholar | 12:22 |
| faceface | agh | 12:22 |
| faceface | sorry | 12:22 |
| myelinzar | the idea is to help make search more effective while using google scholar | 12:22 |
| faceface | so many 'literature management solutions' out there... | 12:22 |
| myelinzar | http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6T0V-470V3B2-D&_user=108429&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&view=c&_acct=C000059713&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=108429&md5=183b3abb9a02ef050d9e56d7b9d206ed | 12:23 |
| myelinzar | well it's not literature management per-se | 12:23 |
| myelinzar | I've been using zotero and mendeley | 12:23 |
| myelinzar | but the idea is that it should help you with the searching | 12:23 |
| myelinzar | for instance, sometimes I type in the same damn query again | 12:23 |
| faceface | myelinzar: I would realy really like that to work, but at the end of the day I don't have time to read as many papers as I'd like to read. | 12:23 |
| myelinzar | because I don't remember how I changed my keywords | 12:23 |
| faceface | right | 12:23 |
| myelinzar | so a way to automatically change the keywords or something is what I'm working on, because I don't like having to manually do 20 different queries with 20 different possibilities because Google's search query parser sucks now | 12:24 |
| faceface | your link killed my browser ;-) | 12:24 |
| myelinzar | the idea is to just find the good papers | 12:24 |
| myelinzar | ouch | 12:24 |
| faceface | right | 12:24 |
| faceface | myelinzar: don't worry, it dies all the time | 12:24 |
| faceface | need to re install desktop I fear | 12:25 |
| faceface | gl | 12:25 |
| faceface | l8r | 12:25 |
| -!- junglistric [n=chatzill@c-68-44-235-166.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #hplusroadmap | 13:24 | |
| myelinzar | Photoinactivation of Native AMPA Receptors Reveals Their Real-Time Trafficking | 13:25 |
| myelinzar | Fast cycling of surface AMPA receptors with receptors from internal stores does occur but exclusively at extrasynaptic somatic sites. | 13:25 |
| -!- junglistric [n=chatzill@c-68-44-235-166.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] | 13:25 | |
| myelinzar | "The cycling of synaptic AMPA receptors only occurs on a much longer timescale with complete exchange requiring at least 16 hr. " | 13:26 |
| myelinzar | "This cycling is not dependent on protein synthesis or action potential driven network activity." | 13:26 |
| myelinzar | aha. GluR1, GluR2L, GLuR4. | 13:28 |
| myelinzar | if this wasn't so awesome it'd be sick | 13:37 |
| myelinzar | http://heybryan.org/books/papers/Real-Time%20Imaging%20of%20Discrete%20Exocytic%20Events%20Mediating%20Surface%20Delivery%20of%20AMPA%20Receptors.pdf | 13:37 |
| myelinzar | real-time imaging of the addition of a receptor | 13:37 |
| -!- duzt [n=duzt@dsl093-216-054.aus1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #hplusroadmap | 13:39 | |
| kanzure- | anyone not subscribed is foolish: http://postbiota.org/mailman/private/papers/2009-April/thread.html | 14:42 |
| kanzure- | here's the index of threads that you can't see: | 14:42 |
| kanzure- | http://heybryan.org/books/papers/threads.html | 14:42 |
| kanzure- | most of those papers are in that directory anyway of course | 14:42 |
| ybit | hey brayn, what are you doing for brl-cad for gsoc? | 14:44 |
| ybit | bryan* | 14:45 |
| ybit | http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1206403&cid=27661197 :: which of these | 14:46 |
| kanzure- | I'm doing nothing :( | 14:46 |
| ybit | that's a surprise | 14:46 |
| kanzure- | um | 14:47 |
| kanzure- | wait. maybe I'm doing one of those. | 14:47 |
| kanzure- | I'm certainly not getting paid by them, that's for sure | 14:47 |
| kanzure- | but I did talk with them extensively about the web repository and constraints stuff | 14:47 |
| kanzure- | I think someone else is doing the constraints stuff this time around again | 14:47 |
| kanzure- | but I'm not sure about the web repository | 14:47 |
| kanzure- | ybit: have you subscribed to the papers mailing list yet? | 14:47 |
| kanzure- | you really should. those papers really are fun/awesome/delicious. | 14:48 |
| ybit | for brl-cad? | 14:48 |
| kanzure- | (you wouldn't know this, but earlier today I sent off a proposal to ADL about SKDB related stuff) | 14:48 |
| ybit | do you have a link?... | 14:48 |
| kanzure- | yeah so what I was thinking was that I'd do some BRLCAD stuff | 14:48 |
| kanzure- | and it would just so happen to be what i'm being paid for in ADL anyway | 14:48 |
| kanzure- | hehe | 14:48 |
| kanzure- | ybit: http://heybryan.org/books/papers/thread.html | 14:48 |
| kanzure- | that has a link on the page | 14:49 |
| kanzure- | or at least it should. | 14:49 |
| kanzure- | anyway, as it turns out, I'm not GSoC for BRLCAD this year, so whatever- I'm still doing the similar work so I might as well contribute it to their code base or something, I'm not bitter. :) | 14:49 |
| ybit | i didn't submit again this year, decided to wait | 14:50 |
| kanzure- | I didn't submit either (that's why I wasn't accepted) | 14:50 |
| ybit | :P | 14:50 |
| ybit | this list does have some interesting papers, thanks | 14:52 |
| kanzure- | it's a mailing list. :p subscribe | 14:52 |
| ybit | wonder why eugen doesn't have a link to it from his homepage | 14:52 |
| kanzure- | Eugen Leitl ("superstar transhumanist" as others describe him) and I decided to throw it together since we both read lots of interesting papers | 14:52 |
| kanzure- | eugen doesn't link much from his home page | 14:52 |
| kanzure- | for instance, nobody knows about http://eugen.leitl.org/ | 14:53 |
| ybit | how did you find it? | 14:53 |
| kanzure- | I asked him to make it | 14:53 |
| kanzure- | oh | 14:53 |
| kanzure- | well, eugen.leitl.org was found by reading papers | 14:53 |
| kanzure- | you know how google scholar sometimes links to PDFs? | 14:53 |
| kanzure- | for some reason it indexed his collection | 14:53 |
| kanzure- | so sometimes when you're reading a paper that he also read, you see that he has it on his server | 14:53 |
| kanzure- | and it's the one that google scholar recommends or links to :p | 14:53 |
| kanzure- | for instance: | 14:54 |
| kanzure- | http://heybryan.org/shots/2008-03-23_autoscholar.png | 14:54 |
| ybit | aha | 14:54 |
| ybit | i've seen that photo | 14:54 |
| ybit | i actually know about eugen.leitl.org because of it :) | 14:55 |
| kanzure- | hrm. so I wonder.. | 14:59 |
| kanzure- | what was that paper about reprogramming fibroblasts into a stem cell? didn't we recently have one about reprogramming any cell into a stem cell, and if so which paper was that? | 14:59 |
| kanzure- | because if we used light-activated oligonucleotides, infected a system with them, and then selectively targeted a group of cells (with some lasers), then we would be able to tell a part of the human body to "reboot" itself into being a stem cell or something | 15:00 |
| kanzure- | there was a recent one about using miRNAs to reprogram any stem cell into an embryonic stem cell, but that's not the same thing | 15:03 |
| kanzure- | although it might be sufficient for Aubrey's cause :p | 15:03 |
| kanzure | " A fly expressing the UAS-P2X2 transgene under the control of the shakB-GAL4 driver in the TTMn-PSI-DLMns group of neurons in the thoracic ganglion responds to a 150 ms laser pulse with wing flapping." | 16:45 |
| -!- any06909553 [n=someone@75-121-63-213.dyn.centurytel.net] has joined #hplusroadmap | 16:49 | |
| -!- katsmeow-afk [n=someone@75-120-38-168.dyn.centurytel.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] | 17:02 | |
| -!- anthonyl|sleep [n=duzt@dsl093-216-054.aus1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #hplusroadmap | 17:06 | |
| -!- duzt [n=duzt@dsl093-216-054.aus1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] | 17:18 | |
| kanzure | hrm | 17:23 |
| kanzure | I have a guy here from diybio talking to me about in vivo dna sequencing and in vivo dna synthesis | 17:23 |
| xp_prg | where is this? | 17:24 |
| kanzure | elsewhere | 17:24 |
| -!- anthonyl|sleep [n=duzt@dsl093-216-054.aus1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] | 17:25 | |
| -!- PeerInfinity [n=someone@216.36.180.162] has joined #hplusroadmap | 17:47 | |
| kanzure- | http://heybryan.org/books/papers/Low-cost,%20rapid-prototyping%20of%20digital%20microfluidics%20devices.pdf | 19:09 |
| kanzure- | low-cost rapid prototyping of digital microfluidics devices | 19:09 |
| kanzure- | via ferric chloride for etching of copper via sharpie masks | 19:09 |
| kanzure- | to make electrodes for electrowetting | 19:09 |
| kanzure- | so that you can do splitting and recombining of droplets and various forms of actuation of teh droplets | 19:09 |
| kanzure- | does anyone know how these electrowetting devices work? blah | 19:11 |
| kanzure- | A scaling model for electrowetting-on-dielectric microfluidic actuators | 19:16 |
| kanzure- | http://heybryan.org/books/papers/A%20scaling%20model%20for%20electrowetting-on-dielectric%20microfluidic%20actuators.pdf | 19:17 |
| kanzure- | I guess that's how | 19:17 |
| kanzure- | welp. that's fairly impressive. | 19:24 |
| * kanzure- drools all over the laptop | 19:27 | |
| fenn | "And what if I wanted to go make one, would I be shot by people busting down my door or something?" <- yep | 19:47 |
| -!- jm [n=jm@p57B9CC17.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #hplusroadmap | 19:49 | |
| kanzure- | fenn: thanks for the clarification. | 19:50 |
| kanzure- | wonder if a bullet-proof vest would protect me. | 20:26 |
| -!- genehacker [n=chatzill@wireless-128-62-98-46.public.utexas.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] | 20:34 | |
| fenn | no | 20:35 |
| kanzure- | foo on you | 20:41 |
| kanzure- | those last two papers I linked to are kinda worth reading | 20:41 |
| kanzure- | huh. example of a microfluidic actuator: a golden ladder. | 20:44 |
| kanzure- | 460 nL water droplet actuated by 15 V | 20:47 |
| kanzure- | ooh, hello | 20:49 |
| kanzure- | Pyrosequencing of DNA using Electrowetting on Dielectrics | 20:49 |
| kanzure- | "By means of a photoconductive layer deposited underneath the dielectric layer, the voltage drop over the dielectric layer can be controlled by light. High electric fields over parts of a droplet may therefore be defined by light irradiation of the substrate. By using moving light patterns, liquid droplets may be moved continuously over a substrate, and even cell sorting is accessible using very simple devices" | 20:53 |
| kanzure- | opto-electrowetting | 20:53 |
| -!- genehacker [n=chatzill@wireless-128-62-98-46.public.utexas.edu] has joined #hplusroadmap | 20:54 | |
| kanzure- | genehacker: electrowetting | 20:54 |
| genehacker | yeah heard of that before | 20:54 |
| genehacker | what about it? | 20:55 |
| kanzure- | we needed a method of actuating liquid droplets in the sharpie microfluidic system | 20:56 |
| kanzure- | well, that's how. | 20:56 |
| kanzure- | http://heybryan.org/books/papers/Low-cost,%20rapid-prototyping%20of%20digital%20microfluidics%20devices.pdf | 20:56 |
| genehacker | it's teflon coated right? | 21:00 |
| genehacker | so can it resist nasty stuff? | 21:00 |
| kanzure- | something cheaper than teflon | 21:02 |
| genehacker | what? | 21:03 |
| genehacker | that stuff that they put around the edges of plastic stuff containers to prevent ants from escaping? | 21:03 |
| kanzure- | I thought teflon was expensive? | 21:04 |
| genehacker | it's not teflong | 21:05 |
| fenn | kanzure-: i think the proposal is too broad, and campbell is likely to say the same | 21:05 |
| kanzure- | fenn: he already wants to go ahead with it | 21:06 |
| genehacker | huh? | 21:06 |
| kanzure- | but I've been trying to split it up into more manageable chunks | 21:06 |
| kanzure- | for example, saying a week spent playing around with physical quantities here and there :p | 21:06 |
| kanzure- | or something | 21:06 |
| fenn | pq is easy | 21:07 |
| kanzure- | so that I'm not just sitting around acting like I'm doing work | 21:07 |
| kanzure- | yes, I know | 21:07 |
| kanzure- | but a timeline would be nice or something | 21:07 |
| kanzure- | so that I could say "hey, give me another undergrad to work with" or something | 21:07 |
| kanzure- | just because it's nice to have somebody to have yelling at me or something | 21:07 |
| kanzure- | also because he might be willing to go for grants eventually .. i.e. copy and paste the text | 21:07 |
| kanzure- | but I think it proves how poor of a writer I am | 21:07 |
| genehacker | you could just take that spiffy engineering writing class | 21:11 |
| kanzure- | I think I should take a class where for each word written, | 21:11 |
| kanzure- | they shoot me | 21:11 |
| genehacker | why? | 21:12 |
| genehacker | well I do hate writing too | 21:12 |
| genehacker | hmmmmmm.... | 21:13 |
| genehacker | now should I take that mechatronics class this summer | 21:14 |
| kanzure- | yes | 21:17 |
| genehacker | I'm thinking I want to do some research over the summer | 21:18 |
| kanzure- | with who? | 21:19 |
| kanzure- | genehacker: Campbell is hiring | 21:20 |
| genehacker | Sata for sure | 21:20 |
| kanzure- | oh | 21:20 |
| genehacker | the the solid freeform fabrication people | 21:20 |
| genehacker | too | 21:20 |
| kanzure- | what do they research? | 21:20 |
| genehacker | solid freeform fabrication | 21:21 |
| kanzure- | http://heybryan.org/books/papers/electrowetting.html a bibliography of electrowetting papers | 21:21 |
| genehacker | 3d printing | 21:21 |
| genehacker | but it looks like I might get to learn a bit of microcontroller and control system stuff in that mechatronics class | 21:25 |
| kanzure- | I don't have experience taking classes about programming microcontrollers, | 21:28 |
| kanzure- | but if it is anything like my previous electronics classes, | 21:28 |
| kanzure- | you'd learn more just buying an arduino kit and playing with it for a weekend | 21:28 |
| fenn | and it'd be useful info, not totally outdated z80 crap | 21:29 |
| kanzure- | plus you'd have an .. arduino | 21:29 |
| kanzure- | *gasp* | 21:29 |
| fenn | i'd suggets a solderless breadboard and some atmega's and attiny's, but then people wouldn't feel they were paying enough | 21:29 |
| fenn | arduino is nice in that it has the USB port built in | 21:30 |
| kanzure- | erm | 21:31 |
| kanzure- | but with some atmega's you need to make yourself a flasher thingy | 21:31 |
| kanzure- | I have had bad experiences associated with making those | 21:31 |
| fenn | well, if you are into that sort of thing | 21:31 |
| genehacker | I believe it's about control systems, programming, and mechanics | 21:31 |
| kanzure- | maybe the situation has become better | 21:31 |
| fenn | you dont *have* to make your own flasher | 21:31 |
| kanzure- | I've seen presentations about control systems .. I don't understand what they are blabering about | 21:31 |
| kanzure- | I mean, I understand control systems | 21:31 |
| kanzure- | but it just sounds like a load of bullshit | 21:31 |
| kanzure- | in particular I saw stuff over youtube | 21:32 |
| fenn | it's a load of bullshit | 21:32 |
| kanzure- | nobody actually knew about dynamic load optimization | 21:32 |
| fenn | surprised? | 21:32 |
| kanzure- | or anything like that | 21:32 |
| kanzure- | well, yes | 21:32 |
| kanzure- | because supposedly people should know how to optimize control systems | 21:32 |
| kanzure- | no?: | 21:32 |
| genehacker | inverted pendulum | 21:32 |
| fenn | hm. i'd rather have a control system that optimizes itself | 21:32 |
| * kanzure- pokes fenn to optimize himself | 21:32 | |
| * fenn twitches | 21:32 | |
| kanzure- | come on.. when's it going to optimize? | 21:32 |
| genehacker | there are algorithms that do that | 21:33 |
| genehacker | haven't you ever played around with simulated control systems? | 21:33 |
| kanzure- | er, you mean, programming? | 21:34 |
| kanzure- | I don't really see what the difference is supposed to be | 21:34 |
| genehacker | yeah, but programming stuff with physics | 21:34 |
| kanzure- | do they even know how to write a task manager? | 21:34 |
| kanzure- | microkernels? blah. | 21:34 |
| kanzure- | I shouldn't bother asking | 21:34 |
| genehacker | IE making an accurate simulation of a harrier that you can fly around | 21:35 |
| kanzure- | why would that be a simulated control system | 21:36 |
| kanzure- | that sounds like 3D modeling to me | 21:36 |
| genehacker | I'm talking about that rigid chips thing I showed you | 21:37 |
| fenn | kanzure ever play x-plane? | 21:37 |
| kanzure- | no. | 21:38 |
| kanzure- | a flight simulator? | 21:38 |
| fenn | it's interesting in that it tries to be as realistic as possible for as wide a range of airplanes | 21:38 |
| fenn | so you can model a lunar lander for example, and program its autopilot' | 21:38 |
| kanzure- | can you do wacky nonlinear control systems? | 21:39 |
| kanzure- | is it just a library plugin architecture? | 21:39 |
| genehacker | it's interesting in that people are using it to design airplanes | 21:39 |
| genehacker | in rigid chips you betcha | 21:39 |
| kanzure- | why are you so obsessed with god damn closed source software | 21:39 |
| genehacker | because it's so easy to use | 21:40 |
| kanzure- | but you can't use it beyond what you see there | 21:40 |
| genehacker | you can though | 21:40 |
| kanzure- | not really | 21:40 |
| genehacker | what do you want to do? | 21:40 |
| genehacker | if you can write it in lua.... | 21:40 |
| kanzure- | make a modification and sell it without being shot in the ass | 21:40 |
| kanzure- | no, it's nothing to do with lua | 21:40 |
| kanzure- | lua is an open source project | 21:40 |
| genehacker | hahahah | 21:40 |
| kanzure- | rigidchips is not | 21:40 |
| genehacker | rigidchips is free | 21:41 |
| kanzure- | so what? | 21:41 |
| genehacker | it's not opensource because whoever made it is too lazy to document it | 21:41 |
| kanzure- | it has nothing to do with documentation | 21:42 |
| kanzure- | although documentation is always nice of course | 21:42 |
| genehacker | oh wait there is documentation | 21:42 |
| genehacker | it's just all in japanese | 21:43 |
| fenn | so what open source 3d physics simulators are out there? | 21:43 |
| kanzure- | fenn: what's the typical argument to use here? | 21:43 |
| kanzure- | OGRE, OPAL, etc. | 21:43 |
| kanzure- | OPE, .. | 21:43 |
| fenn | those are development libraries | 21:43 |
| kanzure- | huh? | 21:43 |
| fenn | i'm thinking something like crayon physics but 3d | 21:43 |
| kanzure- | crayon physics? | 21:43 |
| fenn | phun | 21:44 |
| kanzure- | oh | 21:44 |
| kanzure- | um, I guess nobody has implemented that yet | 21:44 |
| genehacker | rigidchips is sorta like that | 21:44 |
| kanzure- | they're all too busy obsessing over "free" software | 21:44 |
| kanzure- | :p | 21:44 |
| genehacker | it does suck for simulating real objects | 21:44 |
| kanzure- | I don't even know how you would correctly do a phun-like interface but for 3d | 21:45 |
| kanzure- | I guess you'd just do something scriptable | 21:45 |
| fenn | the usual 3d primitives | 21:45 |
| kanzure- | and have a few buttons | 21:45 |
| kanzure- | what's wrong with the primitive methods in the libraries as it is | 21:45 |
| fenn | nothing | 21:45 |
| genehacker | blocks | 21:45 |
| kanzure- | I don't think he gets it though | 21:45 |
| fenn | i'm just saying don't fret because you can't draw a 3d shape with crayons (though there have been some efforts towards this in academia) | 21:46 |
| kanzure- | this has been pointless, hasn't it? | 21:46 |
| genehacker | actuator, jet, tire, laser, magnet | 21:46 |
| fenn | yes it's pointless | 21:46 |
| kanzure- | genehacker: do I sound like I'm speaking a foreign language? | 21:46 |
| genehacker | no | 21:46 |
| kanzure- | then what's so good about allegedly "free" versus free software per the usual definitions of free software? | 21:47 |
| genehacker | if you're just simulating 3d primitives things get boring real fast | 21:47 |
| kanzure- | that doesn't answer the question :( | 21:47 |
| genehacker | it's fun and there isn't much of anything like it out there that isn't free | 21:48 |
| kanzure- | but it's not even really 'free' | 21:48 |
| kanzure- | it's kind of like the retarded brother of 'free' | 21:48 |
| kanzure- | as in, "not quite all there" | 21:48 |
| fenn | http://www-ui.is.s.u-tokyo.ac.jp/~takeo/teddy/teddy.htm 3d shape sketching with crayons | 21:49 |
| kanzure- | while it would be nice to think that the civil engineers freely build bridges (and some do!), it's even more terrible to think that you don't need to become a civil engineer | 21:49 |
| genehacker | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Bv81U-ZbOs | 21:50 |
| kanzure- | but once somebody builds a bridge-building-machine, you just need to be able to maintain *that* machine rather than the actual bridge | 21:50 |
| kanzure- | same concept here .. | 21:50 |
| kanzure- | but it doesn't seem to be getting through | 21:50 |
| genehacker | not rigidchips, but what rigidchips is based off of | 21:50 |
| kanzure- | but if you had to modify rigidchips in a way that the lua extensions don't allow, | 21:50 |
| kanzure- | then you need to start from scratch | 21:51 |
| kanzure- | whereas you could have, all along, gone with software that has already done that ofr you | 21:51 |
| kanzure- | and is truly 'free' | 21:51 |
| genehacker | yeah good point I have wanted to modify rigid chips | 21:51 |
| kanzure- | what's stopped you from using the open source physics simulator engines? | 21:52 |
| genehacker | umm | 21:52 |
| genehacker | how do I use them to make something like this? | 21:52 |
| genehacker | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwnOj1OZmLU&feature=related | 21:52 |
| kanzure- | well normally when programming you start off with the simple components | 21:52 |
| kanzure- | and then you work your way up | 21:52 |
| kanzure- | so something like that- well, I would start with trying to make the platform | 21:53 |
| kanzure- | r whatever that is | 21:53 |
| genehacker | let me find the documentation for rigidchips | 21:53 |
| kanzure- | then the vehicle, and then the HUD, etc. | 21:53 |
| kanzure- | and then tying it in to the underlying engine | 21:53 |
| kanzure- | the hard work is done: the engines are sitting over there waiting for you to use them | 21:53 |
| kanzure- | I suggest reading their tutorials | 21:53 |
| genehacker | yeah that's pretty much what rigidchips is | 21:54 |
| genehacker | really | 21:54 |
| kanzure- | http://artis.imag.fr/Membres/Xavier.Decoret/resources/ode/tutorial1.html | 21:54 |
| genehacker | I've looked at the programming and from my computers garbled attempt to display japanese it looks like it just launches directx | 21:54 |
| kanzure- | what? | 21:55 |
| kanzure- | garbled text? | 21:55 |
| kanzure- | what are you looking at in particular? | 21:55 |
| fenn | rigidchips docs | 21:55 |
| kanzure- | are you sure? he might be trying to read the .EXE file | 21:56 |
| fenn | genehacker: you know it'd be fairly easy to create a rigidchips clone with ODE | 21:56 |
| genehacker | maybe | 21:56 |
| kanzure- | heh did you guys see the post to diybio today about some guy | 21:58 |
| kanzure- | who claims he can publish 838430124814801 papers/day | 21:58 |
| genehacker | I'm looking at a VBP file, an FRM file, and a VBW file | 21:58 |
| genehacker | nah | 21:59 |
| kanzure- | that's visual basic stuff | 21:59 |
| genehacker | that's not it | 21:59 |
| genehacker | looks like configuration stuff to me | 21:59 |
| kanzure- | FRM is visual basic's file format for "form" | 21:59 |
| kanzure- | it's probably BAS (basic) | 21:59 |
| kanzure- | god why do I know this bullshit :( | 21:59 |
| kanzure- | it's worse than glade even | 21:59 |
| genehacker | its all in japanese too | 22:00 |
| genehacker | is that what I'm looking for | 22:00 |
| kanzure- | what *are* you looking for? | 22:00 |
| genehacker | the stuff to modify it | 22:00 |
| kanzure- | but it's not open source. the source code was not released with rigidchips. | 22:01 |
| kanzure- | that's my point- you can't really modify it | 22:01 |
| kanzure- | ((((secretly, there is, but it's very hard to read decompiled assembly shit)))) | 22:01 |
| genehacker | well I have no idea it could be | 22:02 |
| genehacker | this folder called resources has all this stuff | 22:03 |
| genehacker | no | 22:03 |
| genehacker | it's called doc | 22:03 |
| kanzure- | didn't you take a programming class? | 22:03 |
| genehacker | yeah but I can't read this: | 22:04 |
| kanzure- | read what? | 22:04 |
| genehacker | l:0=‹U,1=^) | 22:05 |
| genehacker | _WARP(ƒ`ƒbƒv”Ô†,ˆÊ’ux,ˆÊ’uy,ˆÊ’uz) | 22:05 |
| genehacker | --ƒ`ƒbƒv”Ô†‚ðŠÜ‚ÞŒn‚ð‹§“I‚Ɉʒuxyz‚Ɉړ® | 22:05 |
| genehacker | _WARPOBJ(ƒIƒuƒWƒFƒNƒg”Ô†,ˆÊ’ux,ˆÊ’uy,ˆÊ’uz) | 22:05 |
| genehacker | --ƒIƒuƒWƒFƒNƒg‚ð‹§“I‚Ɉʒuxyz‚Ɉړ® | 22:05 |
| genehacker | _FORCE(ƒ`ƒbƒv”Ô†,x,y,z) | 22:05 |
| genehacker | --ƒ`ƒbƒv‚É—Í(x,y,z)‚ð‰Á‚¦‚é | 22:05 |
| genehacker | _FORCEOBJ(ƒIƒuƒWƒFƒNƒg”Ô†,x,y,z) | 22:05 |
| genehacker | --ƒIƒuƒWƒFƒNƒg‚É—Í(x,y,z)‚ð‰Á‚¦‚é | 22:05 |
| genehacker | _TORQUE(ƒ`ƒbƒv”Ô†,xŽ²,yŽ²,zŽ²) | 22:05 |
| genehacker | --ƒ`ƒbƒv‚Ƀgƒ‹ƒN(xŽ²,yŽ²,zŽ²)‚ð‰Á‚¦‚é | 22:05 |
| genehacker | _TORQUEOBJ(ƒIƒuƒWƒFƒNƒg”Ô†,xŽ²,yŽ²,zŽ²) | 22:05 |
| genehacker | --ƒIƒuƒWƒFƒNƒg‚Ƀgƒ‹ƒN(xŽ²,yŽ²,zŽ²)‚ð‰Á‚¦‚é | 22:05 |
| genehacker | _GETHIT(ƒ`ƒbƒv”Ô†,ÚG•¨–¼) | 22:05 |
| kanzure- | what file is that in | 22:05 |
| genehacker | doc | 22:05 |
| kanzure- | the full file name | 22:05 |
| kanzure- | including extension | 22:05 |
| genehacker | âVâiâèâIè+ÉöêOùùv1.5.txt | 22:06 |
| kanzure- | huh? | 22:06 |
| genehacker | that's the name of the file | 22:07 |
| kanzure- | hrm. well. I thought you might have been reading a binary file. | 22:07 |
| genehacker | it's not a binary | 22:07 |
| genehacker | just download rigidchips | 22:08 |
| kanzure- | uhm | 22:08 |
| kanzure- | a binary is what you run .. | 22:08 |
| kanzure- | erm.. that's why you download it .. | 22:08 |
| -!- any06909553 is now known as katsmeow | 22:08 | |
| genehacker | steal a copy of directx and run it in wine | 22:08 |
| genehacker | give me a code paste website | 22:09 |
| genehacker | found one | 22:11 |
| fenn | gene this is so stupid, please find something better to do | 22:11 |
| genehacker | http://pbox.ca/u0mp | 22:11 |
| genehacker | ok | 22:11 |
| fenn | you could be halfway to a working physics demo with pyode by now | 22:12 |
| kanzure- | heh it's true :) | 22:12 |
| genehacker | you are probably right | 22:15 |
| genehacker | http://www.eonet.ne.jp/~owhari/rc/reference/rc_rf_script.htm | 22:15 |
| genehacker | here's the script documentation | 22:15 |
| -!- jm [n=jm@p57B9CC17.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] | 22:16 | |
| genehacker | this is open http://code.google.com/p/openpanekit/ | 22:20 |
| kanzure- | so try it? | 22:21 |
| genehacker | can ODE do lot's of objects? | 22:28 |
| -!- jm [n=jm@p57B9CC17.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #hplusroadmap | 22:28 | |
| genehacker | and flexible objects? | 22:28 |
| -!- jm [n=jm@p57B9CC17.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] | 22:49 | |
| -!- duzt [n=duzt@dsl093-216-054.aus1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #hplusroadmap | 22:50 | |
| -!- katsmeow is now known as katsmeow-afk | 22:56 | |
| kanzure- | heh droplet actuation by surface acoustic waves on a piezoelectric crystal | 23:20 |
| -!- PeerInfinity [n=someone@216.36.180.162] has quit [] | 23:21 | |
| -!- any95942018 [n=someone@75-120-23-197.dyn.centurytel.net] has joined #hplusroadmap | 23:26 | |
| kanzure- | interesting, these guys were smart enough to model the dependencies between different unit operations on microfluidic biochip operations | 23:27 |
| kanzure- | using "SystemC"? | 23:28 |
| kanzure- | okie.. | 23:29 |
| kanzure- | not sure why | 23:29 |
| kanzure- | fenn: how would you package components for microfluidic systems, in the sense that it's not entirely obvious that something is only 2D? like a mask | 23:29 |
| kanzure- | you could package an entirely separate device to do some simple operation, that's true, | 23:30 |
| kanzure- | or you can integrate it on the same chip and i.e. paste the masks together | 23:30 |
| kanzure- | but how would you distinguish a mask versus something taht should be 3D milled etc? | 23:30 |
| -!- katsmeow-afk [n=someone@75-121-63-213.dyn.centurytel.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] | 23:31 | |
| -!- any62008723 [n=someone@75-120-45-59.dyn.centurytel.net] has joined #hplusroadmap | 23:32 | |
| -!- any62008723 is now known as katsmeow-afk | 23:32 | |
| fenn | as a surface instead of a volume? i dont really see the problem | 23:33 |
| fenn | just use the 2D class of wahtever your 3D model is done in | 23:33 |
| genehacker | packaging | 23:35 |
| genehacker | that's pretty hard | 23:35 |
| genehacker | encase it in black epoxy? | 23:36 |
| genehacker | nah | 23:36 |
| kanzure- | that's not the issue though | 23:36 |
| kanzure- | and I don't think fenn's answer made sense anyway :p | 23:36 |
| genehacker | kanzure could you send me a list of things that gear optimizing program needs? | 23:44 |
| -!- any95942018 [n=someone@75-120-23-197.dyn.centurytel.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] | 23:49 | |
| kanzure- | genehacker: input xyz torque, output xyz torque | 23:49 |
Generated by irclog2html.py 2.15.0.dev0 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!
