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kanzure- | hm. I need a way to make a super-high velocity water drop. say, 300 m/sec. | 00:31 |
---|---|---|
kanzure- | converted air rifle? | 00:36 |
kanzure- | 12 drops of water per minute? wtf is this nonsense. | 00:37 |
kanzure- | heh. it's just a rifle in a tetrahedral space frame. | 00:38 |
genehacker_ | why? | 00:48 |
kanzure- | "Micromachining single crystal materials using a tetrahedral space frame machining centre | 00:48 |
kanzure- | " | 00:48 |
genehacker_ | sauce? | 00:48 |
genehacker_ | perhaps you could build a water gun os some sorf | 00:50 |
genehacker_ | link? | 00:50 |
kanzure- | don't have access. | 00:51 |
genehacker_ | yeah me neither | 01:05 |
genehacker_ | and I'm on the campus | 01:05 |
genehacker_ | mind explaining the droplets moving very fast part? | 01:08 |
kanzure- | "I know, still a little slow, but wait until I put on the big blade" | 01:12 |
kanzure- | is there any context in which that sentence makes sense? | 01:13 |
kanzure- | because I'm fairly certain something would be slower with a larger blade | 01:13 |
kanzure- | (the blades are circular) | 01:13 |
kanzure- | genehacker_: it's just a pulsed water jet cutter | 01:13 |
genehacker_ | some anime? | 01:13 |
kanzure- | by ridiculously high speed water drop impact | 01:14 |
genehacker_ | cool | 01:14 |
kanzure- | nope, not anime :( | 01:14 |
genehacker_ | ??? | 01:14 |
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genehacker_ | http://science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/05/08/0344248 | 02:14 |
genehacker_ | look what made slashdot? | 02:15 |
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kanzure- | cis-action: are you serious | 10:54 |
cis-action | ... | 10:55 |
kanzure- | mindlessly chanting oaths is not what we need | 10:55 |
kanzure- | we need real, effective safety protocols, not bullshit | 10:55 |
kanzure- | "do not ingest hydrogen peroxide" > "do no harm" | 10:55 |
cis-action | you think we have unsafe protocols right now? | 10:55 |
kanzure- | we have no protocols :( | 10:55 |
kanzure- | there's pcr.xml, but whatever | 10:56 |
cis-action | Reality vs. perception of reality. We need to be safe and seem safe. pcr.xml is going to go way over most people's heads. Besides, it has like 3 research topics rolled up into it as well. We need dependable, demonstrable safety, as well as cutting-edge, early-adopter research-project safety. | 11:00 |
kanzure- | what does that have to do with anything | 11:01 |
kanzure- | have you already forgotten about the protocol-xml-to-english-readable-text translators? | 11:01 |
cis-action | ha ha ha. | 11:01 |
cis-action | you're talking to me. | 11:01 |
cis-action | I'm not the audience, you idiot. | 11:02 |
cis-action | "no man is an island" etc. etc. | 11:02 |
kanzure- | I just feel like nobody is listening or understanding | 11:02 |
kanzure- | what? | 11:02 |
kanzure- | you *are* the audience. you claim that Zach's essay was useful, or something | 11:02 |
kanzure- | but it wasn't.. except for maybe the citations, but who cares? that could have been given as a bibliography without a crap waste of time essay attached | 11:02 |
cis-action | We are going to get legislated out of existence by the rest of society if stuff like pcr.xml is our only response to the safety question. | 11:03 |
kanzure- | would you say the same thing if pcr.xml is used to automatically generate instruction manuals | 11:03 |
cis-action | "Oh yeah, we're safe. We invented a whole new safety paradigm. It's years ahead of the obsolete safety protocols used in traditional labs. No need for you to worry, Mr. Citizen." | 11:04 |
kanzure- | and an oath will make people feel better? now who's laughing | 11:04 |
cis-action | I'm not saying it's not a good idea. I think it's a great idea. But we need more. | 11:04 |
cis-action | yes! you think it's stupid but it's true. | 11:04 |
kanzure- | because it is stupid. | 11:04 |
kanzure- | it has absolutely nothing to do with progress | 11:05 |
kanzure- | and it has so far wasted a large portion of your time | 11:05 |
kanzure- | ok, let's put it this way | 11:06 |
kanzure- | you spend 2000 hours crafting an oath or something | 11:06 |
kanzure- | versus spending 20 hours crafting safety protocols and ways to make sure people aren't going to do stupid things without knowing it | 11:06 |
kanzure- | those 2000 hours might feel like they are being productive | 11:07 |
kanzure- | but meanwhile people are dying because they are idiots | 11:07 |
kanzure- | and because their software sucks or something | 11:07 |
kanzure- | how "ethical" or "moral" is *that* | 11:07 |
cis-action | 1. Stop being so dramatic. That's not a realistic description of the situation. No one is dying, and the risk of serious injury seems really low right now. | 11:08 |
cis-action | 2. you lead the crusade to get your machine-readable safety ontology used in 10 labs and then I think you have the beginnings of a point | 11:09 |
kanzure- | people aren't dying because they aren't doing stupid things | 11:09 |
kanzure- | but once you have a million different protocols online | 11:09 |
cis-action | 3. I'm not planning on writing a creed. Hopefully someone else will. I just am trying to defend the general idea because I believe it's important to our relationship with the rest of society. | 11:10 |
kanzure- | *you* try implementing effective safety measures into them "after the fact" | 11:10 |
cis-action | yes, well, as you said already, we have 0 protocols. Let's work hand-in-hand doing the safety markup on the first one. | 11:10 |
cis-action | I'm actually excited about that. | 11:11 |
kanzure- | yeah, instead of wasting time on writing lengthy essays | 11:11 |
cis-action | bah, it was shorter than most of your emails. | 11:11 |
kanzure- | most of my emails are not about ethics/morals ;-) | 11:11 |
cis-action | You are acting like the stereotypical autistic engineer, hackles raised by talk of humanities students. | 11:12 |
kanzure- | that was a freaking *engineer* who wrote the essay :( | 11:13 |
kanzure- | I don't know what it would take to convince you people that humanities is not the way to do engineering | 11:15 |
kanzure- | ok. I'm done ranting. | 11:26 |
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kanzure- | has anyone seen a MEMS rocket yet? either an array of micropropulsion thruster thingies. just wondering why these aren't more popular for rocket enthusiasts. | 12:25 |
kanzure- | there are some for nanosatellites, but I was hoping for something in the atmosphere | 12:25 |
kanzure- | there are micro aerial vehicles, but they have flapping wings (wtf) | 12:25 |
xp_prg | what is a MEMS rocket? | 12:30 |
kanzure- | cis-action: have you joined the papers mailing list yet? | 12:33 |
cis-action | Hmm, I don't think I have. | 12:34 |
kanzure- | cis-action: it's like getarticles except for discussing papers that you happen to be reading | 12:34 |
cis-action | oh neat | 12:34 |
cis-action | I'm interested. | 12:35 |
kanzure- | I posted a link to diybio and getarticles btw. | 12:35 |
kanzure- | cis-action: http://postbiota.org/mailman/listinfo/papers | 12:35 |
fenn | i was always skeptical of tiny arrays of rockets | 12:36 |
fenn | it just doesnt seem like it could possibly be as efficient as one big rocket | 12:37 |
fenn | er, arrays of tiny rockets | 12:37 |
cis-action | hey wait a second, this mailing list is just messages from you, bryan. | 12:38 |
kanzure- | eugen leitl posts sometimes. | 12:39 |
kanzure- | there are also a few other subscribers | 12:39 |
kanzure- | fenn: I should just go do the math, but really I think the ratios should still work | 12:40 |
cis-action | ok | 12:40 |
kanzure- | for a liquid propellant, it should still be able to have a giant tank on board | 12:40 |
kanzure- | (relatively giant) | 12:40 |
kanzure- | cis-action: still need the pyrosequencing paper? | 12:41 |
cis-action | why another mailing list and not a group on citeulike or mendeley? | 12:41 |
cis-action | yeah | 12:41 |
kanzure- | mendeley crashes when you import more than 10,000 papers | 12:41 |
cis-action | oh | 12:42 |
cis-action | Yeah I haven't been that impressed | 12:42 |
kanzure- | as for citeulike, I actually recently registered | 12:42 |
kanzure- | and have put some references on there. | 12:42 |
kanzure- | not too impressed with the groups already there though | 12:42 |
kanzure- | seems underused or something? | 12:42 |
cis-action | ha ha so does the Papers mailing list | 12:42 |
kanzure- | well, that's certainly true | 12:42 |
kanzure- | metagenomics pyrosequencing: http://heybryan.org/books/papers/Metagenomic%20pyrosequencing%20and%20microbial%20identification.pdf | 12:43 |
cis-action | ok, I will try posting the next couple of papers I read to both Papers and to a citeulike group | 12:43 |
cis-action | thanks | 12:43 |
kanzure- | feel free to invite me on citeulike to a group or whatever | 12:43 |
kanzure- | or send me a link. | 12:43 |
cis-action | will do. | 12:43 |
cis-action | btw the Urine DNA sequencing paper is fascinating | 12:43 |
cis-action | I want a sequencer in my toilet. | 12:44 |
kanzure- | heh | 12:44 |
kanzure- | did you read it? | 12:44 |
kanzure- | they injected DNA into blood and some mice pissed it out | 12:44 |
cis-action | just the first page, including abstract | 12:44 |
kanzure- | there was another paper from a while back | 12:44 |
cis-action | 0.06% | 12:44 |
kanzure- | where they used a bladder as a bioreactor | 12:44 |
cis-action | So, about the sequencing paper... I am interested in just bootstrapping Jason's BioWeatherMap project and trying to do direct sequencing off of some sample I grab | 12:46 |
kanzure- | have you considered direct electronic identification of nucleotides? | 12:46 |
kanzure- | i.e., building the AFM machine and sequencing DNA by detecting the force of different nucleotides | 12:46 |
cis-action | I'm trying to figure out how I need to prepare a sample and what I should be sequencing. Everyone says 16s ribosomal dna and I have no idea there are better options. | 12:47 |
kanzure- | no idea there are | 12:47 |
kanzure- | what? | 12:47 |
kanzure- | 45 MB file of DNA sequencing papers & bibtex: http://heybryan.org/books/papers/bibliographies/DNA%20sequencing.tar.gz | 12:47 |
cis-action | ...no idea *if* there are better options (genomically). | 12:47 |
cis-action | we should collaborate. I'll get and prepare the samples, and you build an AFM and do the single-molecule sequencing | 12:47 |
kanzure- | haha | 12:48 |
kanzure- | would you pay for it? | 12:48 |
cis-action | thanks | 12:48 |
cis-action | hmmm | 12:48 |
kanzure- | STM DNA sequencing bibliography: http://heybryan.org/books/papers/bibliographies/STM-DNA-sequencing.bib | 12:48 |
cis-action | it depends on the budget, really, and if you would document the construction instructions at the same time | 12:48 |
kanzure- | STM DNA IETS sequencing bibliography: http://heybryan.org/books/papers/bibliographies/STM-DNA-sequencing-IETS.bib | 12:48 |
kanzure- | I don't have a full estimate of how much it would cost, but if you think there's a chance that we could drum up some funding to build a diy afm, that would be great | 12:48 |
kanzure- | the big price factor is going to be the plastic parts | 12:49 |
kanzure- | which can be uploaded to ponoko and we can check how much they would cost to be built | 12:49 |
kanzure- | or I might be able to print them for free at school here | 12:49 |
cis-action | for sure | 12:49 |
cis-action | I bet as a community we could raise $1k | 12:49 |
cis-action | yeah I have access to a fablab here and I could laser cut stuff there | 12:50 |
kanzure- | the trick is figuring out if AFM can do DNA sequencing. STM can, but AFM hasn't been used extensively for these purposes in the literature. | 12:50 |
kanzure- | Progress in sequencing DNA with AFM http://heybryan.org/books/papers/Progress%20in%20sequencing%20DNA%20with%20an%20AFM.pdf | 12:51 |
kanzure- | that was from 1990 though | 12:51 |
kanzure- | almost as old as I am .. | 12:51 |
wrldpc | what's up with broderick on GRG? | 12:54 |
wrldpc | sheesh | 12:54 |
kanzure- | damien? | 12:55 |
wrldpc | aye | 12:55 |
kanzure- | I haven't been reading his emails, what's up? | 12:55 |
fenn | 'big price factor is going to be the plastic parts' you gotta be kidding | 12:57 |
cis-action | kanzure: http://diybio.chipin.com/diy-afm-dna-sequencer | 12:57 |
kanzure- | the rest was like nuts and bolts | 12:57 |
wrldpc | He brought up this point that I thought had died ages ago regarding Aubrey and Cambridge. Just creating more bullshit chatter and distracting people away from discussing the science. | 12:57 |
cis-action | of course... we could just put the money towards a commercial sequencing budget. | 12:58 |
wrldpc | It's like when no one has something substantive to contribute they resort to some kind of trite philosophical or political point. | 12:58 |
kanzure- | cis-action: yes. that's why I suggested the community nominations for sequencing or something. or even just SNP stuff via 23andme. | 12:58 |
wrldpc | Really annoying. Then when I call him on it the moderator of the group sides with him exhibiting the same "institutional bias" that got Aubrey fired in the fucking first place. | 12:58 |
kanzure- | wrldpc: damien doesn't seem to be too important. ignore him. | 12:58 |
wrldpc | k | 12:59 |
kanzure- | GRG is very academic-oriented. they all secretly hate Aubrey or something. | 12:59 |
wrldpc | aye | 12:59 |
kanzure- | cis-action: but really, what about the 23andme community nominations idea? | 13:10 |
cis-action | how would it work? I mean, what does it have to do with 23andMe? | 13:10 |
kanzure- | it was suggested in the thread where somebody mentioned a company was going to do free sequencing of a whole genome | 13:11 |
kanzure- | and instead, we were thinking of doing SNP analysis for some member of the diybio community | 13:11 |
kanzure- | by pooling together 'lottery money' | 13:12 |
kanzure- | even though it's not very DIY :( | 13:12 |
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kanzure- | eh? | 13:20 |
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kanzure- | not that anybody cares, but | 13:48 |
kanzure- | http://heybryan.org/books/papers/AFM-DNA-sequencing/ | 13:48 |
kanzure- | sequencing by hybridization. hrm. | 13:51 |
kanzure- | wasn't there some paper about using an AFM tip to pop off a nucleotide from the DNA stack or something? mechanical separation, or some such | 14:09 |
fenn | that sounds highly unlikely to work even if someone wrote a paper about it | 14:17 |
kanzure- | ah, it was just denaturation via mechanical force :( | 14:18 |
kanzure- | er, separating of complementary strands | 14:18 |
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kanzure- | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microfluidic_Sanger_Sequencing | 15:13 |
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kanzure- | http://heybryan.org/books/papers/Microfabricated%20bioprocessor%20for%20integrated%20nanoliter-scale%20Sanger%20DNA%20sequencing.pdf | 15:16 |
kanzure- | microfluidic system for Sanger-method DNA sequencing | 15:17 |
kanzure- | includes some nice diagrams of their design | 15:17 |
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kanzure- | Eco International E-Recycling Drive tomorrow at 2 pm - 6 pm here in Austin. might want to go by to pick up some junk. | 17:34 |
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fenn | you sure that wasn't last saturday? | 17:47 |
kanzure- | was announced on television, so maybe there will be people hanging around the spot with stuff to drop off | 17:49 |
fenn | where? | 17:50 |
fenn | this monitor can't decide if it's broken or not | 17:53 |
kanzure- | can't find it. | 17:56 |
fenn | sweet campbell hired me | 18:14 |
fenn | june 1 to august 17 | 18:14 |
fenn | great time to be in texas eh :P | 18:15 |
kanzure- | your whole migration thing is kind of fucked up | 18:16 |
kanzure- | you're like a bird with brain damage | 18:16 |
kanzure- | anyway, congratulations | 18:16 |
fenn | heh | 18:17 |
kanzure- | will he pay you | 18:17 |
fenn | $13/hr | 18:17 |
kanzure- | so if you want to cover a portion of rent or something, that would be neat | 18:18 |
fenn | yeah | 18:18 |
kanzure- | hm. bacteriophages have an internal pressure of 50 atm. | 18:55 |
fenn | wow | 18:59 |
kanzure- | the addition of a sequence of nine arginine residues to a protein makes it bind to silicon surfaces. O.o | 19:11 |
kanzure- | or just use the bacteria ribosomal protein L2. hm. | 19:11 |
kanzure- | I wonder if that works for sand too. | 19:12 |
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kanzure- | fenn: hm. the hours he's offering me during the summer is somewhat lower than what I was anticipating. my funds are going to be a little tight. (sata gave me some weird hours too, so not everything is quite matching up) | 19:25 |
kanzure- | posted some abstracts: http://heybryan.org/mediawiki/index.php/Virus | 19:27 |
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kanzure- | er, this is kind of hard to search for | 19:43 |
kanzure- | what does the 'position' function in lisp do? | 19:44 |
fenn | If the sequence contains an element satisfying the test, then the index within the sequence of the leftmost such element is returned as a non-negative integer; otherwise nil is returned. | 20:02 |
kanzure- | any thoughts on making clisp tell me the line number of an error? -v doesn't do the trick. | 20:06 |
drazak | no offense | 20:56 |
drazak | but do any of you have girlfriends? | 20:56 |
kanzure- | not anymore. | 20:57 |
drazak | mhm | 20:58 |
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jm|space | i have robots, if that counts | 21:06 |
jm|space | why do you ask? do you need one? | 21:07 |
kanzure- | mom wants to buy me this: http://austin.craigslist.org/fuo/1140266244.html | 21:07 |
drazak | jm|space: no, I have one | 21:08 |
kanzure- | so certain are you. | 21:08 |
kanzure- | these clisp restarts are useless. they don't tell you context. | 21:11 |
kanzure- | "oops, the value you entered for that variable was of the wrong type but I didn't tell you what type of the variable was to begin with, so ha ha!" | 21:11 |
kanzure- | "(and you can't go back because that's not an option)" | 21:11 |
fenn | um isnt the point of the restart that you can go back? | 21:19 |
kanzure- | there's an ABORT. | 21:21 |
kanzure- | hm. sbcl has much more detailed output about what's going wrong with the script. lots of undefined variables floating around. | 21:22 |
kanzure- | fenn: did albert ever send you the source yet | 21:37 |
kanzure- | why can't we do this with our fablab? http://dsc.discovery.com/tv/doing-davinci/doing-davinci.html | 21:38 |
kanzure- | getting funding for making all of davinci's inventions? please please please | 21:38 |
kanzure- | "I AM SICKENED BY YOUR WEAKNESS" is one of the t-shirts the guys wear. heh. | 21:42 |
drazak | kanzure-: have you thought much about H1N1? | 21:54 |
kanzure- | no. but I have been feasting off of Superkuh's previous work being anxious about H1N1. | 21:59 |
drazak | well | 22:00 |
drazak | I'm thinking of working out how well tamiflu will work on it | 22:01 |
drazak | as my project for tonight | 22:01 |
kanzure- | did you see my post to diybio about the synthesis of oseltamivir? | 22:02 |
drazak | missed it | 22:02 |
drazak | I've been busy | 22:02 |
kanzure- | you might want to look at it :) | 22:02 |
drazak | I need to get my moleskin notebook in a sec | 22:02 |
drazak | to quote 'stuff white people like' "it's where we write all of our really great ideas" | 22:02 |
drazak | we need more neuraminidase inhibitor class drugs | 22:04 |
drazak | having only two makes the ability for the virus to mutate to immunity very likely, espescially if we have pandemonic panic and start injecting people with drugs | 22:06 |
drazak | I also need to find out how the flu virus is fought off by the immune system | 22:08 |
drazak | kanzure-: do you have books on immunology? | 22:08 |
kanzure- | antibodies | 22:08 |
kanzure- | on the server | 22:08 |
drazak | well no shit sherlock | 22:08 |
kanzure- | heybryan.org/books/Medical/ | 22:09 |
kanzure- | http://heybryan.org/books/Medical/ | 22:09 |
drazak | yah already there | 22:09 |
kanzure- | http://heybryan.org/books/Medical/Medicine%20-%20Fundamental%20Immunology%205th%20Edition%20-%20William%20E.%20Paul%20-%202003.pdf | 22:10 |
kanzure- | http://heybryan.org/books/Medical/Medicine%20-%20Microbiology%20Immunology%202005.pdf | 22:10 |
drazak | already downloading the first one | 22:10 |
kanzure- | http://heybryan.org/books/Medical/Medicine%20-%20%5bIsilo%20Book%20-%20Medicine%5d%20Adelman%20-%20Manual%20of%20Allergy%20and%20Immunology%20Diagnosis%20and%20Therapy%204th%20ed.rar | 22:10 |
kanzure- | http://heybryan.org/books/Medical/USMLE%20-%20Biochemistry,%20Immunology,%20Microbiology%20-%20USMLE%20Lecture%20Notes%20%5bKaplan%5d.pdf | 22:10 |
kanzure- | http://heybryan.org/books/Medical/Medicine%20-%20Pathology%20-%20Robbins%20Pathologic%20Basis%20Of%20Disease%207ed%20(eBook).pdf | 22:11 |
kanzure- | ack, firefox crashed. why am I using firefox. | 22:11 |
drazak | is all good | 22:11 |
drazak | I have the pathology one on my other laptop | 22:11 |
drazak | there's chemical synthesis of oseltamivir on wikipedia now | 22:12 |
kanzure- | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oseltamivir_total_synthesis | 22:16 |
kanzure- | nice. | 22:16 |
drazak | yup | 22:17 |
katsmeow-afk | omd, it's 56megabytes | 22:59 |
drazak | mhm | 22:59 |
katsmeow-afk | kanzure, are you on dialup?! | 23:01 |
drazak | katsmeow-afk: he's not | 23:01 |
katsmeow-afk | hmm, i am getting only 22ks from him | 23:02 |
-!- katsmeow-afk is now known as katsmeow | 23:06 | |
kanzure- | katsmeow: what do you want? | 23:18 |
kanzure- | er, or if you know of a good proxy for me to install on a faster server, .. | 23:18 |
drazak | kanzure-: I have a faster server if you need it | 23:19 |
kanzure- | I do too.. | 23:19 |
kanzure- | my outgoing connection sucks, but not if I am out going to the university | 23:19 |
kanzure- | so I just need to install a good proxy server on one of my machines | 23:19 |
kanzure- | unfortunately there are no proxypass tutorials left on the web anymore (wtf) | 23:19 |
katsmeow | a proxy on a faster server wouldn't help you unless it cached for a long while | 23:19 |
kanzure- | yes it would | 23:20 |
kanzure- | I have 10 MB/sec back and forth to that server | 23:20 |
kanzure- | (to multiple servers actually) | 23:20 |
katsmeow | then why do you need the proxy? | 23:20 |
kanzure- | because you're getting dialup speeds | 23:21 |
kanzure- | and I'm a nice guy? | 23:21 |
katsmeow | oh | 23:21 |
katsmeow | well, i won't be pushy, i can throttle back my fetch rate if it helps | 23:22 |
kanzure- | it doesn't | 23:22 |
katsmeow | k | 23:22 |
katsmeow | i was interested in just the one book | 23:23 |
kanzure- | http://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.2/mod/mod_proxy.html | 23:26 |
kanzure- | ok | 23:28 |
kanzure- | http://adl.serveftp.org/heybryan/papers/ | 23:28 |
-!- kanzure- changed the topic of #hplusroadmap to: taking over world, etc. etc. fast download of paper dump: http://adl.serveftp.org/heybryan/papers/ | 23:28 | |
kanzure- | can someone tell me how that is? please? | 23:29 |
katsmeow | gimme to min to finsh the dl still going | 23:31 |
katsmeow | woo, bloody well faster | 23:35 |
katsmeow | 9x faster | 23:35 |
kanzure- | have fun. | 23:36 |
katsmeow | /books/ is there? | 23:36 |
kanzure- | yes. /heybryan/ is /books/ basically. | 23:37 |
katsmeow | ah | 23:37 |
kanzure- | heh that's right I have all of these aptamer protocols I took from ellington | 23:45 |
kanzure- | I should probably make some sort of use of this .. | 23:45 |
kanzure- | http://heybryan.org/books/ellingtonlab/A_E-Lab_Stuff/Lab%20Talks/Tech%20Talks/ | 23:47 |
kanzure- | http://heybryan.org/books/ellingtonlab/Lord_Vader_stuff/grades.txt | 23:52 |
kanzure- | Levy, Matthew \t 103 | 23:52 |
kanzure- | bah | 23:52 |
kanzure- | (Levy was his favorite phd postdoc guy) | 23:52 |
kanzure- | artificial self-replicating system? http://heybryan.org/books/ellingtonlab/Lord_Vader_stuff/puppy3.jpg | 23:55 |
kanzure- | self-replication by condensation http://heybryan.org/books/ellingtonlab/Lord_Vader_stuff/puppy4.jpg | 23:56 |
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