2009-05-27.log

--- Day changed Wed May 27 2009
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fennheh "DNA + 151 rum"01:28
fenninosine is already a common additive01:28
fennzoinks01:34
fenn'' reader One Comment 01:34
fenn70GB PDF library workflow on OSX01:34
fenn I have a 70GB library of textbooks and technical journal articles in (mostly) PDF format.01:34
fenn(mac cowell)01:34
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fennwhy are microsd cards all black? you cant label the damn things so they're near impossible to tell apart01:36
genehackerbecause then you lose the card easier and have to buy more01:39
genehackerotherwise they'd be fluourescent yello01:39
genehackerI need to find some SD cards that have some pictures....01:40
genehackerotherwise I have to take apart my old computer and figure out how to get the data off it...01:41
fennhmm those holographic data cards were fluorescent yellow01:48
fennbut a micro SD card holds more01:49
fennand the reader costs 10,000 times less01:49
fennhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holographic_Versatile_Card01:51
fennOLPC display looks way better than the kindlee01:56
fennhmm part of that is because it zooms properly01:59
fennfor "the standard" in typesetting programs, LaTeX output sure looks like crap02:04
fennmaybe it's just whatever font is installed as default on (all of) my computers (ever) but the text is all humpty dumpty looking, the tops and bottoms are not at the same height and the letters are different size02:05
genehackerI think I need to read more about the connection machine02:05
genehackerheck I think I saw one of them...02:05
fenni think it's "computer modern" that looks the worst02:07
fenngenehacker: big black box with red led's all over the front02:08
fenn"you can't miss it"02:08
genehackeroh it was just the frame it seems02:09
fennquite possibly the sexiest computer case ever designed02:09
genehackerhttp://www.computerhistory.org/collections/accession/10269129702:09
genehackerno the sexiest computer case ever designed was this one supercomputer02:09
fennOH YEAH?02:09
genehackerit glowed red02:10
genehackerit looked like a casemod, a casemod as tall as a man02:10
genehackeryikes, space could be a whole bunch of randomly connected cellular automata02:11
fennnow you must do penance by bashing your forehead with "new kind of science" ten thousand times a day02:12
genehackerno I don't think you get it02:13
fennwhy not?02:13
genehackermy worst worry is that the universe is a screensaver02:13
fenni was thinking about this stuff before you were born :P02:13
genehackerheck I've ran cellular automata that form random networks capable of sustaining waveforms02:15
fennabout the only response i got was "well, so what if it is?" from my brother02:15
fennyou have?02:15
genehackerI just hope I didn't make anything sentient02:15
genehackerwell  this is probably just crazy talk02:15
fenni'm going to have to arrest you for violating intergalactic law02:15
fennhold still while we send a ship to your dimension02:16
genehackerwell then how do I know you didn't accidently create a sentient entity just by breathing?02:16
genehackerI think I need to read more about cellular automata02:17
genehackerdamn fluid dynamics just using cubes that can move in 6 directions02:18
genehackerheh I wonder If I could implement that in DNA...02:19
fenncan cubes move in more than 6 directions?02:22
genehackerhttp://www.cs.washington.edu/homes/ruzzo/02:23
genehackernot here02:23
fennhmm i wonder why max used the word 'ultrahuman' instead of just 'superhuman'02:25
fenndoesn't ultra mean "last"?02:25
genehackerbecause it is ultraawesome02:26
fennit should have been "hyperhuman" following the typical progression of superlatives02:26
fennam i supposed to trademark that now?02:26
fenngenehacker: how much truth behind that page?02:28
genehackernone unfortunately02:30
fennno time cube for you then02:33
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fennhuh. danny hillis from 1998 "Why Y2K (as we experts so fondly call it) instead of bio-terrorism, the next energy crisis, or the return of the swine flu?"03:22
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kanzure"I'm Mac Cowell. I'm an amateur biologist. I'm a part of diybio.org. I'm interested in synthetic biology and refactoring and reengineering existing biological tools and techniques to be cheaper, easier, safer, and more accessible."07:31
kanzuresounds untrue :/07:31
kanzureoh well. /me goes off to hop a bus.07:32
kanzurefenn: joseph jackson seems to think that he's on a "social mission" more than anything else.07:39
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splicerfenn: sthf = Svenska TransHumanistForbundet, The swedish transhumanist association08:24
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kanzure"Reminds me of those experiments that we used to to do in cub scouts - sticking a small mirror onto a thin sheet of clingfilm and watching how sound waves changed the direction of reflected light - to demonstrate how sound was just air moving rapidly."10:35
* drazak_ never heard of that10:40
kanzureisn't that a photo-microphone or something?10:41
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kanzurehttp://openwetware.org/index.php?title=DIYbio/FAQ&action=history11:08
kanzurewhy doesn't anybody else edit it11:08
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kanzurenot bad11:37
kanzurehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oligonucleotide_synthesis11:37
kanzureI think it's time to re-read wikipedia11:37
kanzureyay it has references11:37
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kanzure^ Schulhof, J. C.; Molko, D.; Teoule, R. The final deprotection step in oligonucleotide synthesis is reduced to a mild and rapid ammonia treatment by using labile base-protecting groups. Nucleic Acids Res. 1987, 15, 397-416.11:44
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kanzuresynthetic neurobiology "labcast" from ed boyden: http://labcast.media.mit.edu/?p=6312:16
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ultraleibnizI like this.12:50
ultraleibnizhttp://heybryan.org/books/papers/www/biochem118/cmgm.stanford.edu/biochem118/Papers/12:50
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drazak_"Jim in four weeks created the GigAssembler by working night and day,"13:07
drazak_Dr. Haussler said. "He had to ice his wrists at night because of the13:07
drazak_fury with which he created this extraordinarily complex piece of13:07
drazak_code."13:07
katsmeow-afkthe odor of overheated flesh permeated the dorm facility.....13:11
xp_prgkanzure I don't understand why it is hard to assemble dna13:11
katsmeow-afkthe devoted gathered is quiet adoration outside in the fields.....13:11
katsmeow-afkhis Name was spoken in respectfully hushed tones, with bowed heads.....13:12
* katsmeow-afk stops now13:13
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kanzurexp_prg: it's more of an art of statistis13:26
kanzure*statistics13:26
kanzurebecause you need to find overlapping pieces of the genome13:26
kanzureyou don't sequence everything linearly, you sequence it in chunks13:26
kanzureand those chunks are out of order13:26
drazak_katsmeow-afk: that was muad'dib, not Jim13:30
drazak_:P13:30
kanzurehis Name was spoken in respectfully hushed tones, with bowed heads...13:32
kanzureAt long last the creator spoke and he was vastened, and all was Good.13:32
kanzure'Avast, ye heathen mortals! There be code to conquer, sources to write.'13:33
kanzureAnd the good people mumbled amongst themselves in awe, for before them stood a God--13:33
kanzurevanishing, He left them all with the most beautiful program ever13:33
kanzurewritten completely in LISP and without comments and was consequently utterly useless.13:34
kanzurea big thanks goes to the big G.13:34
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kanzureer, so, even in my dreams I'm promising people I'll write code for them for different things14:12
kanzurethe latest one was something about writing a hierarchical tournament generator thingy for a coach14:12
kanzure"you're doing that by hand? gah!"14:13
drazak_you, my friend, need to meet randall monroe14:18
kanzurehave you met him?14:47
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genehackerkanzure?15:40
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kanzuregenehacker: yes?16:00
kanzuregenehacker: do you have all of the references to KSRM yet?16:08
kanzurefenn: how many metalworking/machine shops would you estimate have an actual inventory list? have you seen enough to get a good bayesian clue?16:12
kanzureI'm thinking of telling [AustinMetalworkingEtc] that if any of them buy me lunch, I'll type up their inventory for them :p16:13
kanzurehuh?16:29
kanzurehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_Molecule_Real_Time_Sequencing16:29
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kanzure"The ZMW holes are ~70nm in diameter and ~100nm in depth. Due to the behavior of light when it travels through a small aperture, the optical field decays exponentially inside the chamber [4]. The observation volume within an illuminated ZMW is ~20 zeptoliters (20 X 10-21 liters). Within this volume, the activity of DNA polymerase incorporating a single nucleotide can be readily detected."16:43
kanzurehttp://heybryan.org/books/papers/craighead/ for the papers & wikipedia article16:43
kanzureer, that was 1E-21 not 10-21 16:44
kanzurefenn: sounds like they have to immobilize the polymerase16:46
genehackerreferences?16:46
genehackerhuh?16:46
kanzuregenehacker: in the link16:46
kanzurehttp://heybryan.org/books/papers/craighead/ for the papers & wikipedia article16:46
kanzure"The Pacific BiosciencesTM company expects to commercialize the SMRTTM sequencing in 2010 or 2011. The prototype of the SMRTTM chip contains 1000 ZMW holes that allow the parallelized DNA sequencing. Each of the ZMW holes produces approximately 1,500 bp(base pair)in read lengths at the speed of 10 bp per second."16:46
kanzureI wonder if we could make it before 201016:46
genehackerme two16:48
genehackerI wonder if we could sell it in china or some place with lax copyright laws like hong kong16:48
kanzureyou mean patent laws16:48
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kanzurewhat was the size of the smallest genome again? something like 600 kbp ?16:51
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kanzure580,07316:53
genehackeris the size of the mycoplasma genitalium genome16:56
genehackerin BP16:56
kanzurehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Single_Molecule_Real_Time_Sequencing#Application16:58
kanzuremade a comment about the fishyness of it all16:58
genehackerso what were you saying  before 580,073/17:01
kanzurewas just trying to remember the size of the genome of mycoplasma genitalium 17:02
kanzurebecause I was pointing out that it's the only whole genome that the ZWT method or whatever could sequence with 1k holes, 10 bp/sec, and 1.5k bp max per hole.17:02
fenn1000 holes seems too few17:10
kanzure"while you're down there", you might as well bother with some more17:10
fennkatsmeow-afk: http://www.engadget.com/2009/04/15/solaren-corp-to-supply-california-with-space-based-solar-power/17:10
fennkatsmeow-afk: note the use of concentrating mirrors on solar cells17:11
fennof course i'm highly skeptical it will actually get built17:11
kanzurehm. so it turns out that time warner cable doesn't like me hosting stuff on my servers.17:14
kanzureI have a 2 second lag in this channel, and I can hardly load anything over the web17:14
kanzureand I think people are downloading the low-cost PCR book from the server17:15
fennyep17:16
fennit seems they just degrade your connection rather than doing something sensible like traffic shaping17:16
kanzurethey do that for torrenting methinks17:17
fennthat = what?17:17
kanzurealthough I'm not sure, a lot of this is me guessing and having bad experiences17:17
kanzureshaping for torrenting17:17
fennyeah probably17:17
kanzurealthough it might only be for specific ports for torrenting, I haven't tried using some other port yet17:17
fennanyway, it shouldn't ever drop 70% of packets to google.com17:17
fenntry encrypted torrent packets only17:17
fennrandom port + encryption whee.. its like war games17:18
kanzureoh, I know what I'll do 17:18
kanzureI'll host it on the sata server17:18
fennno wai!17:18
kanzureit's not like he's not already doing something quasi-illegal by using campus resources to host the server17:18
fennhow is that illegal?17:18
fennor even quasi-illegal17:18
kanzureusing campus resources for a business?17:18
kanzureisn't that a no-no?17:18
fenni thought that was the whole point :317:19
fennsee 'the kept university' etc etc17:19
kanzurenah, uni just sells out poor souls to already established corporations17:19
kanzureanyway17:19
* kanzure goes to look at the ZWT papers17:20
kanzurewonder if an immobilized polymerase can be used to electrically detect whether or not it has a certain base in its complementary hole17:21
kanzureer17:21
kanzurehow is it that after all of this time I still do not know the precise mechanisms of DNA pol enzymes?17:21
fennit seems 'sim city' has more influence on public policy than decades of space energy research17:21
* fenn mumbles something about arcologies17:22
kanzurefenn: btw, I'm willing to make a deal with you17:22
fennlet's make a deal!17:22
kanzureif you stop pretending to know japanese, I'll stop pretending to know LISP17:22
kanzure:p17:22
fennwell at least i dont bother you with japanese on a daily basis17:22
kanzurewould you?17:22
fennum, no17:22
kanzurewhat?17:23
fennhuh?17:23
kanzuredo you or do you not bother with japanese on a daily basis?17:23
fenndo not17:23
kanzurefooey17:23
fenngenehacker: here's your homework for today http://www.longnow.org/views/essays/articles/ArtCompSciNG.php17:24
genehackerfenn I'm sewing right now17:25
kanzurehm. maybe I knew how polymerase truly worked at one point?17:27
kanzurehttp://heybryan.org/mediawiki/index.php/Polymerase17:27
kanzure"A specific loop in human DNA polymerase mu allows switching between creative and DNA-instructed synthesis"17:27
genehackerbtw how do immune cells synthesize different antibodies?17:28
kanzureI would suggest picking up a good immunology book from the server :p17:29
fennsequence shuffling17:30
fennit's really quite interesting'17:30
genehackerhttp://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/protein/193885324?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Sequence.Sequence_ResultsPanel.Sequence_RVDocSum17:33
genehackerhow does that immunotherapy stuff work?17:33
genehackerthat seems like it would be a rather handy sequence to know...17:37
genehackerdelightful17:37
genehackeropera has flash failure too17:37
kanzurewhat did you do?17:37
fenni love how in that story craig venter gives the professor (haussler) all the credit17:38
genehackerso if we synthesize and boot up the mycoplasma laboratorium genome...17:39
genehackerwill he give us credit for making the first synthetic lifeform17:39
fennno17:39
fennthe point was that the professor didnt do anything, it was his mysterious grad student17:40
genehackeroh17:41
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kanzureum, why aren't we folding proteins around nanowire support thingies17:44
kanzurearound scaffolds17:45
genehacker???17:45
kanzureyou'd be able to stuff stuff inside of the proteins and try to evolve for preserved functionality or something17:45
kanzurethe stuff inside could be something like a sensor for activity17:45
kanzure(particularly useful for immobilization (I'm not going to consider stuffing a nanoradio into them)17:46
kanzure)17:46
kanzuregah! I fail at lisp17:46
kanzure(immobilization useful particularly (nanoradio stuffing (nil consider))17:46
fennstuff!17:50
fennare you talking about hybrid organic/inorganic tiles?17:50
kanzuretiles?17:50
fennremember the DNA FPGA thing?17:51
kanzureno, I was thinking of putting wires in between the giant wrapping helices in proteins17:51
kanzureno, not really17:51
kanzureI mean, no, I do not mean that17:51
fennthose ribbon diagrams are not entirely representative of reality17:51
kanzureright, but proteins are also not wall-to-wall or the volume entirely filled with super-compressed material17:52
fennthey're pretty well stuffed17:52
fenni mean, illustrations in textbooks are all way too sparse17:52
fennas far as protein concentration goes at least17:53
fennsorry i derailed your idea17:54
kanzurenah, it's not a problem17:54
kanzureI'm still reading up on polymerase conformational changes anyway17:54
fenni think the phrase you're looking for is "inorganic ligand"17:55
genehackernanoradios are cool17:55
kanzuremost ligands that I've heard about are usually external17:55
fennthey're usually at the active site, because it's what makes the reaction go17:56
fennlike a dill bit17:56
fenndrill bit*17:56
kanzure"'reveals a major conformational change wherein the C-terminal subdomain of the polymerase rotates around the axis of -helix M to produce main chain movements of up to 11 Å . This substrate-induced subdomain closure around the DNA is accompanied by numerous smaller (1−2 Å;) conformational changes "17:56
fennfantastic17:56
fennan animated 3d model would be infinitely better17:57
kanzurethere's a link, but it's broken17:57
kanzurehttp://www.chem.ucsd.edu/Faculty/Kraut/bpol.html17:57
fennroadrunner hates me17:58
kanzurethe trick is to hate roadrunner more than it hates you17:58
kanzureyay google18:01
kanzurehttp://chem-faculty.ucsd.edu/kraut/bpol.html18:01
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kanzure"If you have any comments about my movie, please click on my email Michael R. Sawaya (msawaya@ucsd.edu). A screen should pop up (its self explanatory) and there will be buttons for send and cancel. "18:07
kanzurewtf18:07
kanzurehow ancient is this?18:07
kanzure"The terminal base pair of the primer stem forms the other side of this pocket, which has a geometry that precisely accommodates a correct base pair."18:10
kanzurethat sounds unlikely18:10
kanzure"Again, this binding pocket is defined by both nucleic acid and protein, that is, the correct 3'-terminal base pair forms one side of the pocket and specific amino acids in the O helix form the other side. The resulting slot provides a tight fit (Fig. 2) for incorporation of the correct nucleotide. "18:11
fennwhy does it sound unlikely?18:17
kanzurebecause incorrect base pairs are sometimes incorporated 18:17
fennif it werent a tight fit, you'd get the wrong base 75% of the time18:18
fennyou have to remember everything is constantly being battered with the equivalent of a tidal wave full of sledgehammers18:19
fennso the shape of the protein is not always exact18:19
fenni wonder why i havent heard about freedomofscience.org yet18:20
kanzurereally?18:21
kanzureit's why joseph bothered to meet up with me18:21
kanzure"One mechanism by which high-fidelity DNA polymerases maintain replication accuracy involves stalling of the polymerase in response to covalent incorporation of mismatched base pairs, thereby favoring subsequent mismatch excision. Some polymerases retain a “short-term memory” of replication errors, responding to mismatches up to four base pairs in from the primer terminus"18:22
fenni thought you already knew him from WTA18:23
kanzureno, not at all18:23
fennis he not the transhumanist bodybuilder guy?18:23
kanzureit just so happens that he's well acquainted with the WTA folks18:23
kanzurehe is18:23
kanzurebut it's more of a "just so happens" rather than me meeting him through those channels18:23
genehackerhe might give bodybuilder a whole new meaning18:24
kanzureapparently he graduated from harvard18:25
kanzurehe's a bit on the obsessive side :)18:25
fenn"Using a Wiki format, we will create a community annotation system to review licenses and say whether they share."18:29
fennyarr18:29
kanzurefenn: can you be over here by 4:30 tomorrow?18:30
fennany kind of data aggregation/standardization is better than none18:30
kanzureAndrew and Linda are visiting, and she wants to meet you and such18:30
fenn4:30 i'll set my alarm18:30
kanzurefor 4:30 ?18:30
fennheh'18:30
fenni'm so fucked18:30
fenn(just in general)18:31
genehackerdamn18:31
kanzuregood luck with that18:31
genehackerI'm stuck down here18:31
kanzurefenn: would pushing it out be better?18:31
kanzurebecause she just offered to get me some food tomorrow, so if we shop first that's ideal18:31
fennhmm ok i guess18:32
fenngenehacker: where are you stuck?18:32
genehackerwhere I am right now18:32
genehackerhome18:32
genehackersewing up a thermal management garment18:33
fenni see. do you need someone to call emergency services to come extract you?18:33
genehackerno18:33
fennok :)18:33
kanzureI want to go eat somewhere tonight18:33
genehackerIt's just a big hassle to get to austin from here18:33
kanzuremaybe freebirds. anybody want to come?18:33
genehackerI could use a teleporter or at least some telepresence gear18:34
kanzureer, you mean a webcam?18:34
genehackerno I mean claytronic doubles18:34
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fenncan you eat claytronics?18:35
genehackeror a robot with stereovision, manipulators, and a low latency internet connection18:35
genehackeryes, but it isn't good for you18:35
fennkanzure: i'm available tonight, as usual18:37
kanzurewell if you want to eat feel free to come over I guess18:40
xp_prgok kanzure thanks18:43
kanzurexp_prg: ?18:43
xp_prgover for dinner18:43
kanzurearen't you on the wrong side of the continent?18:44
xp_prgya18:44
xp_prg:)18:44
fennmail me some claytronics18:44
fennor a crossed atom beam hologram18:44
genehackeror telepresence robot18:45
fenni'm telling you, you can't eat a telepresence robot18:45
genehackerwoo 12 feet out of 25 feet done18:45
genehackertime to get moar supplies18:45
kanzurefenn: sometime soon or I'll go without you :p18:46
fennoh, right18:46
genehackerman one of those autonomous flying delivery vehicles would be great right about now...18:46
fennbrt18:46
kanzure"The polymerase, therefore, plays a significant role in defining the local and the global conformation of each mismatch structure. The type and degree of disruptions at the polymerase active site vary depending on the identity of the mismatch. We present our observations categorized by the type of base pairing."18:49
kanzurenice, it has a list of different conformational changes for each type of mismatch incorporation18:51
kanzurenow if only it would do that for correct pairings :p18:52
genehackerwhoa18:59
genehackersolaren says they're gonna get 4.8 gigawatts from space solar?19:00
genehackerthat is a lot19:00
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kanzurephotosensors that induce conformational changes: Vivid, White Collar-1, ZEITLUPE, ENVOY, and flavin-binding, kelch repeat, F-BOX 1 (FKF1)23:26
kanzureflavin-based photosensors,23:29
kanzurecomprising cryptochromes, LOV (Light, Oxygen and Voltage) and BLUF (Blue Light23:29
kanzuresensing Using FAD) protein23:29
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