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| katsmeow-afk | http://ceramicartsdaily.org/methods-techniques/the-printed-pot/ | 01:36 |
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| katsmeow-afk | According to ScienceDaily, group of researchers at University of Washington have come up with a formulation of artist's ceramic powder to replace 3D printing media, which can cost $30-50 per pound. They are distributing their recipe online for free (which can produce a pound of material for less than a dollar). The pots pictured above were made in a 3D printer using their ceramic mix. | 01:38 |
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| nsh | nice | 01:42 |
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| nsh | the sciencedaily link: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/03/090331153010.htm | 01:45 |
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| katsmeow-afk | yeas | 01:46 |
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| kanzure | katsmeow-afk: yeah, we posted that to openmanufacturing a few months ago, including the recipe | 09:17 |
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| kanzure | bpython - interactive python interpreter (via ncurses) with buffer saving and other fancy IDE tricks. | 13:40 |
| kanzure | install script (trivial): http://heybryan.org/~bbishop/docs/scripts/bpython-install | 13:44 |
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| kanzure | scp seems to hang even though it has transferred all of the bits for a file to one of the lab servers. what's up with that? | 13:48 |
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| kanzure | updated: http://adl.serveftp.org/dokuwiki/scripts | 14:09 |
| kanzure | updated: http://heybryan.org/~bbishop/docs/scripts/ (has stuff other than what's listed on that page, however) | 14:09 |
| kanzure | fenn got lost in the forest. he's not much of a ninja. | 14:29 |
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| fenn | i was hiding in my secret ninja lair on the mountainside | 14:37 |
| kanzure | why don't I have a secret ninja lair | 14:37 |
| kanzure | todo: show that maxwell gave up his aether crap. (from logs with thebryanbishop) | 14:41 |
| kanzure | ether, aether, dimethyl ether | 14:41 |
| kanzure | sleeping gas formulas? was it nitric oxide? | 14:43 |
| kanzure | relativistic frame dragging | 14:45 |
| kanzure | s/nitric/nitrous/ | 14:45 |
| kanzure | nitric oxide is the toxin :) | 14:45 |
| kanzure | carcinogen thingy | 14:45 |
| kanzure | added parsemeetlog.pl to http://heybryan.org/~bbishop/docs/scripts/ | 14:46 |
| kanzure | fenn and I were talking about maxwell and his interest in the aether- so here are my old (old) notes on that topic | 14:51 |
| kanzure | http://heybryan.org/~bbishop/docs/greplog/maxwell.txt | 14:51 |
| kanzure | or in HTML: http://heybryan.org/~bbishop/docs/greplog/maxwell.txt.html | 14:54 |
| kanzure | (somewhat more viewable) | 14:54 |
| kanzure | 2006-12-30.154919.txt:(23:26:31) kanzure: `Ironically, the reason given here by Maxwell for being dissatisfied with the distant-action approach to electromagnetism was actually based on a misunderstanding, as Maxwell later acknowledged. He originally thought a velocity-dependent force law must automatically violate the conservation of energy. Indeed, the first such law to be proposed (by Gauss) was subject to this objection. However, the force law of Weber fully satisfies the conservation of energy, so Maxwell’s original stated motivation was unfounded. After realizing this, he amended his reasons for opposing distant action theories. In later treatments he emphasized the requirement (as he saw it) for the electromagnetic energy (and momentum) emitted by one body and absorbed some time later by another body to have some mode of existence between the emission and absorption events.` Wasn't that intermediate known as the photon? | 15:03 |
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| kanzure | organelle cult | 15:07 |
| kanzure | 2007-04-02.174157.txt:(23:08:31) kanzure: `James Clerk Maxwell (1831-79) set out to make Faraday's ideas quantitative. He described the lines of force using Newtonian mechanics, envisioning them as rotating tubes of fluid (the ether) which had the properties required by Faraday: the rotation would cause the tubes to expand laterally and contract longitudinally. The resulting set of only four equations ("Maxwell's equations") described all known electric and magnetic phenomena exactly. Maxwell, however, realized that the enormous machinery with which he had filled all space was not an essential part of his theory, and eventually just used his equations as though the machinery did not exist. This is how we use his equations today. The relationship between the original machinery and the final equations was not without its detractors, however. One French reader stated that when he started to read Maxwell's work he expected to find himself in the midst of the quiet groves of electromagnetic theory, and instead found himself inside a factory! [Williams, p.122].` | 15:09 |
| kanzure | Maxwell abandoned it, in other words. | 15:09 |
| samrose | anyone here ever get nanoengineer running on ubuntu? | 15:12 |
| kanzure | er, can somebody point me to a formulation of QFT that does not rely on virtual particles as the mechanism of action? | 15:12 |
| kanzure | samrose: what is nanoengineer? | 15:12 |
| samrose | this is as close as I can find http://docs.google.com/Doc?id=dc26889x_102hqxfw2cg | 15:13 |
| samrose | kanzure here's a quick overview http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=185027 | 15:13 |
| samrose | kind of neat, just wanted to explore | 15:13 |
| kanzure | oh, didn't know drexler had a thingy | 15:16 |
| kanzure | huh | 15:16 |
| kanzure | something I've been meaning to get is the recent DNA origami folding simulation software | 15:17 |
| kanzure | it's open source software, I think I made a few links in a diybio post once | 15:17 |
| samrose | that is drexler eh? didn't realize | 15:18 |
| fenn | whois samrose | 15:18 |
| fenn | heh | 15:18 |
| fenn | samrose: i'm curious where you live semi-permanently.. i know you were at marcin's place for a while | 15:19 |
| samrose | fenn: never was at marcin's place. I help Marcin remotely when I have time | 15:19 |
| samrose | I am in Michigan | 15:19 |
| samrose | I travel a lot though | 15:19 |
| samrose | at times | 15:19 |
| samrose | I am near Lansing, MI | 15:20 |
| samrose | gotta go, later! | 15:21 |
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| kanzure | wget -m -np http://nanoengineer-1.com/content/images/stories/gallery/ | 15:25 |
| kanzure | "super velcron" should be uploaded somewhere eventually | 15:39 |
| kanzure | vecron | 15:39 |
| kanzure | with my super-awesome partial wall blasting thingy that doesn't actually work | 15:39 |
| kanzure | todo: rsync on papers folder | 15:44 |
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| PeerInfinity | hi Marino :) | 15:53 |
| Marino | hey Peer. :) | 15:53 |
| PeerInfinity | go ahead and introduce yourself, someone will probably reply eventually | 15:53 |
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| Marino | Hey guys, I'm friends with Peer. :) | 15:54 |
| Marino | :3 | 15:54 |
| PeerInfinity | Marino wants to know how to get into working on BCIs for real | 15:56 |
| PeerInfinity | Marino is also cofounder of transhumanistforums.com :) | 15:57 |
| Marino | Yep. I'm still in highschool and I was just wondering how to get into a solid career of developing BCIs - I plan on dual majoring in Cognitive Psychology and Information Science / Computer Science (haven't decided yet) at Northeastern University in Boston. | 15:58 |
| PeerInfinity | heh... I was under the impression that most people working on BCIs weren't doing it because they wanted a career, but because they wanted the BCIs for themselves... | 16:00 |
| Marino | Nope. Impression shattered. :P | 16:00 |
| PeerInfinity | :P | 16:01 |
| PeerInfinity | also, I was assuming that BCIs would most likely arrive near the end of the transition to post-scarcity | 16:01 |
| PeerInfinity | which might end up rendering traditional careers obsolete, or at least not necessary for survival | 16:02 |
| Marino | BCIs already exist | 16:04 |
| PeerInfinity | (I think most of the people in this chatroom only check the chatroom a few times per day, because they're busy doing other important stuff, so be prepared to wait a while for a reply) | 16:04 |
| Marino | but are primarily used for locked-in patients, which is very sensible | 16:04 |
| kanzure | hello | 16:05 |
| PeerInfinity | hi kanzure :) | 16:05 |
| kanzure | BCIs do already exist, that's true, but they do not do what scifi authors want them to do | 16:05 |
| PeerInfinity | (kanzure, aka Bryan, is the main guy in charge of this chatroom, and the whole hplusroadmap movement) | 16:06 |
| Marino | hey kanzure :) | 16:06 |
| kanzure | yay I'm a movement apparently | 16:06 |
| fenn | i want to close my eyes and read and write | 16:06 |
| kanzure | http://heybryan.org/~bbishop/docs/neuro/ <- various papers on BCIs | 16:06 |
| fenn | not necessary to do invasive brain surgery to get that level of interaction | 16:07 |
| fenn | the forehead tactile stimulator for example might be up to some of it | 16:07 |
| kanzure | some of us want to chat with the receptors (or, deceptors) on neurons | 16:07 |
| Marino | After watching the Michio Kaku documentary titled 2057 I see the great potential for BCIs in daily life. I haven't read much sci-fi so I haven't read much about BCIs otherwise. | 16:07 |
| Marino | thanks Bryan, I will read those | 16:08 |
| kanzure | Kaku has been doing some television stuff for popular science | 16:08 |
| kanzure | I'm not sure I'd recommend any of it :/ | 16:08 |
| Marino | why? :O haha | 16:08 |
| Marino | He IS a THEORETICAL physicist after all. :P | 16:09 |
| kanzure | that shouldn't stop him from doing better. he got to talk with all of those interesting people, and didn't once take their source code? or their schematics? | 16:10 |
| Marino | How do you know he didn't? But yeah, that wasn't his job - his job is a science popularizer and professor. Not to steal code from unsuspecting researchers. :P | 16:12 |
| kanzure | if he did, then it seems like he's not sharing, so therefore he's not playing fair | 16:12 |
| kanzure | anyway | 16:12 |
| Marino | yeah :( | 16:13 |
| kanzure | why do you want a "career" | 16:13 |
| kanzure | and what is a "career"? | 16:13 |
| fenn | that's some strange logic | 16:13 |
| fenn | "if he did, therefore xyz" | 16:13 |
| kanzure | "oh look at what these people are doing, isn't it cool- so I'll take their work- but I won't give you any, so haha" | 16:14 |
| kanzure | I mean, if he did, I haven't seen any signs that he is sharing the stuff he stole | 16:14 |
| Marino | Oxford English Dictionary: A career is an individual's "course or progress through life" | 16:14 |
| fenn | why do you think he stole code/schematics? | 16:14 |
| kanzure | I don't think he did, but it would have been a good idea for him to do that | 16:14 |
| fenn | "stole" being somewhat of a useless concept in pure science | 16:15 |
| kanzure | Marino: I don't think that helped :( | 16:15 |
| Marino | <_< I knew knew there were Kaku conspirators | 16:15 |
| * fenn conspires to commit senseless acts of Kaku | 16:15 | |
| Marino | Here's another then: The sum total of your life experiences including education, paid and unpaid work, and community, volunteer and family activities. | 16:15 |
| kanzure | is that some sort of japanese cuisine? | 16:15 |
| Marino | it's vague, basically means life experience | 16:15 |
| kanzure | but why be so vague | 16:16 |
| fenn | Marino: that's pretty vague | 16:16 |
| kanzure | you're talking about BCIs after all :) | 16:16 |
| Marino | Because it is vague. | 16:16 |
| kanzure | but why use it if it is vague? | 16:16 |
| kanzure | I don't understand | 16:16 |
| fenn | basically you want people to respect you and throw money at you for minimal amounts of effort while doing what you like to do anyway | 16:16 |
| fenn | that's "career" | 16:16 |
| Marino | I never said anything about money. | 16:16 |
| kanzure | is that what you want, Marino? | 16:16 |
| kanzure | hm | 16:16 |
| Marino | Yes, I would like to earn a living so I can...you know, live. | 16:17 |
| fenn | it's not a career if nobody's paying | 16:17 |
| fenn | sorry | 16:17 |
| Marino | Obviously I will get paid, but it isn't about the money in the end. | 16:17 |
| Marino | Can you grasp that? The concept of a life's work? | 16:18 |
| fenn | "obviously" | 16:18 |
| kanzure | but that's usually what a career is about .. so I just don't understand what your point is in trying to tell us that you want a career in BCIs | 16:18 |
| kanzure | wouldn't you make BCIs anyway if you didn't have a career? | 16:18 |
| fenn | Marino: there's this dead tree book my mom sent me.. gee too bad i cant give it to you | 16:18 |
| Marino | Would "I want to develop BCIs" be better? | 16:18 |
| fenn | anyway the book is about how you should do what you like to do not what you think you ought to like to do | 16:18 |
| kanzure | do you want to develop BCIs? | 16:18 |
| Marino | Yes. | 16:18 |
| kanzure | then do that :) | 16:18 |
| kanzure | yeah, so that's more interesting IMHO | 16:19 |
| Marino | That is the fundamental concept I was trying to get across. :P | 16:19 |
| fenn | so why arent you actually doing it already? | 16:19 |
| kanzure | fenn isn't as mean as he might sound | 16:19 |
| Marino | Besides the fact that I'm 15, I don't have the resources nor the education yet. :P | 16:19 |
| fenn | for example you could be cyborgizing the roaches in your house etc | 16:19 |
| kanzure | age isn't an excuse. | 16:20 |
| Marino | erm, my house is not infested. | 16:20 |
| fenn | or learning about electronics or something useful | 16:20 |
| kanzure | some people raise roaches for fun | 16:20 |
| fenn | museum curators mostly | 16:20 |
| kanzure | a peculiar type | 16:20 |
| kanzure | Marino: why don't you have the resources? | 16:20 |
| kanzure | do you know which resources you don't have? | 16:21 |
| kanzure | er, I mean, tools | 16:21 |
| fenn | didnt you have a link for $20 patch clamp | 16:21 |
| fenn | electrode array or something i mean | 16:21 |
| fenn | blarg | 16:21 |
| Marino | Yes - I don't have any fMRI systems, which is kind of essential. | 16:21 |
| kanzure | it's somewhere in the ~bbishop/docs/neuro/ directory thingy, let me dig it out | 16:21 |
| fenn | O RLY | 16:22 |
| fenn | Marino: you might want to verify that statement | 16:22 |
| fenn | (the other day i was making fun of fMRI as "typing with a remote controlled hammer") | 16:23 |
| Marino | [somewhere in the back of my mind whispers a voice: "Don't feed the trolls"] | 16:23 |
| kanzure | diy electrode assembly: http://heybryan.org/~bbishop/docs/neuro/Electrode%20Assembly.pdf | 16:23 |
| fenn | don't classify me as a troll, i'm trying to help | 16:23 |
| kanzure | diy electrode assembly notes: http://heybryan.org/~bbishop/docs/neuro/Electrode%20Assembly.pdf.txt | 16:23 |
| fenn | you're trying to do something but claim you can't because you need some gigadollar equipment | 16:23 |
| kanzure | gigadollar is an official metric of #hplusroadmap | 16:24 |
| Marino | Technically, I can't. What do you think I don't need? | 16:24 |
| kanzure | wait, what? if you can't, then why are you trying? | 16:25 |
| kanzure | we're talking about the fMRI system | 16:25 |
| kanzure | you said you need an fMRI | 16:25 |
| fenn | you dont' need an MRI machine to make a brain-computer interface | 16:25 |
| Marino | What do I need then? | 16:26 |
| Marino | enlighten me. | 16:26 |
| fenn | test subjects, measurement equipment... what else? | 16:26 |
| kanzure | basic electronic lab equipment might be useful | 16:27 |
| kanzure | there's an inventory list, er, somewhere | 16:27 |
| * kanzure digs | 16:27 | |
| fenn | braingate is basically a multi channel ADC right? | 16:27 |
| fenn | with lots of noise conditioning | 16:27 |
| kanzure | vern gave me an inventory list from his nuts&volts publication | 16:28 |
| kanzure | cell cultures might be useful for BCIs or something | 16:29 |
| kanzure | or at least the frog leg experiments | 16:29 |
| kanzure | http://heybryan.org/2008-08-15.html <- some notes on Captain Cyborg's latest BCis for rat neural cultures guiding various robots around | 16:29 |
| fenn | tissue culture is another ball of wax | 16:30 |
| kanzure | electronics workbench inventory list thingy: http://groups.google.com/group/openmanufacturing/browse_thread/thread/9c6e67d0af38c5c4/e2e85300b87867b2?lnk=gst&q=electronics+inventory#e2e85300b87867b2 | 16:30 |
| fenn | sort of hard for amateur to start with | 16:30 |
| fenn | that's why i suggested insects, because you wont have PETA burning your house down etc | 16:30 |
| fenn | apparently insects arent animals | 16:30 |
| kanzure | how do you do neurosurgery with insects, anyway? | 16:30 |
| kanzure | does the exoskeleton heal? | 16:30 |
| fenn | no | 16:30 |
| Marino | haha | 16:31 |
| Marino | poor insects | 16:31 |
| kanzure | Marino: try out those links. | 16:31 |
| Marino | ok, thanks, brb | 16:31 |
| fenn | the cyborg roach thingy was just a connection to their antenna nerves | 16:31 |
| kanzure | that's kind of lmae | 16:31 |
| kanzure | *lame | 16:31 |
| kanzure | this was the cyborg roach mounted on a robot, right? | 16:31 |
| fenn | the cyborg flying beetle was implanted in the chrysalis at a specific stage of development | 16:31 |
| fenn | right | 16:31 |
| fenn | the beetle is more interesting because it grows around the implant | 16:32 |
| kanzure | was there a paper? | 16:32 |
| fenn | i think to be truly integrated you'd have to do the same thing with animals | 16:32 |
| fenn | i didnt read any paper, i think it was at berkely | 16:32 |
| fenn | Marino: what do you want to do with a BCI eventually? | 16:35 |
| Marino | back | 16:36 |
| fenn | SQUID devices are interesting and probably better spatial resolution than an MRI | 16:37 |
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| kanzure | hi genehacker | 16:37 |
| * fenn dives for cover | 16:37 | |
| genehacker | ??? | 16:38 |
| genehacker | what is it? | 16:38 |
| kanzure | just saying hello. | 16:38 |
| genehacker | oh hi | 16:39 |
| Marino | Eventually, I would like to work towards [realistically] creating a fully controllable virtual body with movable joints, muscles, skeletal system, ect that can be controlled by tapping the motor cortex's map. Obviously this is a jumbled hypothetical "dream project", but I'm sure I will end up doing something much more humble with BCIs. | 16:39 |
| genehacker | they have virtual bodies like that | 16:39 |
| genehacker | except they monitor electrical impulses to your muscles | 16:39 |
| Marino | So basically you can control a virtual body just like you control your own? | 16:39 |
| Marino | No, no muscles involved. It would be all with the mind, no physical movement necessary. | 16:39 |
| genehacker | and use a motion capture system or something like that | 16:39 |
| fenn | i think you'd have to actually move | 16:39 |
| genehacker | yeah | 16:40 |
| fenn | or try to move | 16:40 |
| Marino | yeah, by thinking by moving you would ideally make the virtual body move. | 16:40 |
| Marino | Think of taking your right hand and scratching your back? The virtual body would do it. | 16:40 |
| kanzure | the motor cortex may not work that way | 16:40 |
| kanzure | the motor cortex isn't the "prime mover" | 16:40 |
| Marino | It's a fantasy but something I hope someday will be possible. | 16:40 |
| fenn | and relieve my virtual itch :) | 16:41 |
| genehacker | what about scratching through your back? | 16:41 |
| genehacker | this is virtual reality were talking about | 16:41 |
| Marino | through? You could do that. The body wouldn't have the physical limitations that we have. | 16:41 |
| Marino | Yes, VR would be my ideal field. | 16:41 |
| fenn | i think the interesting part of a BCI is you could integrate wholly new senses into your awareness.. like a "codal" sense or a cryptographic sense | 16:41 |
| kanzure | Marino: field? what? | 16:42 |
| fenn | "career" | 16:42 |
| Marino | hahahahahha | 16:42 |
| kanzure | oh | 16:42 |
| kanzure | not this again | 16:42 |
| Marino | Sorry, I have these words in my vocabulary :P | 16:42 |
| genehacker | http://science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/05/29/1254259 | 16:42 |
| Marino | what words should I use? | 16:42 |
| genehacker | paper form of this kanzure? | 16:42 |
| kanzure | Marino: just go *do* it | 16:42 |
| Marino | not field...erm....area of study? | 16:43 |
| kanzure | study? just *do* it | 16:43 |
| genehacker | monkey with a robotic arm controlled by brain interface? | 16:43 |
| kanzure | genehacker: not right now, sorry, slow internet connection | 16:43 |
| Marino | I'm trying to be realistic here. | 16:43 |
| kanzure | me too | 16:43 |
| kanzure | Marino: do you know about diybio? | 16:43 |
| genehacker | SLOW INTERNET CONNECTION | 16:43 |
| genehacker | that sucks | 16:43 |
| Marino | Nope. | 16:43 |
| kanzure | genehacker: the paper wasn't interesting, IIRC, you should just read up on how to manufacture microelectrode arrays | 16:44 |
| fenn | diybio is rather useless in its current state | 16:44 |
| kanzure | Marino: the whole point is that amateurs are capable of doing this shit without multi-gigabillion dollar pieces of equipment | 16:44 |
| kanzure | yes, the community itself is useless | 16:44 |
| kanzure | but I'm just trying to convey the idea here | 16:44 |
| genehacker | I don't care that the paper wasn't interesting to you | 16:44 |
| kanzure | genehacker: it didn't actually say anything though. | 16:44 |
| genehacker | it had something about it about the brain outputting where to move the arm in vector form | 16:44 |
| genehacker | IE | 16:45 |
| genehacker | it didn | 16:45 |
| genehacker | t specify angles | 16:45 |
| Marino | Bryan, really? Projects this complex? | 16:45 |
| kanzure | Marino: yes, absolutely. that's what we're about in here. | 16:45 |
| genehacker | it specified a point to move to or something like that | 16:45 |
| kanzure | the brain just happens to work through a vector encoding standard for arm movement? | 16:45 |
| Marino | I'm not sure even the pros could make a fully mind-controlled virtual body. :P | 16:46 |
| kanzure | what pros? | 16:46 |
| Marino | at this stage in technological development anyways | 16:46 |
| Marino | scientists | 16:46 |
| Marino | Neurologists | 16:46 |
| Marino | namely | 16:46 |
| Marino | Technicians | 16:46 |
| kanzure | all of the tools seem to be in place, as far as I can tell | 16:47 |
| kanzure | what piece of equipment do we not know how to build? | 16:47 |
| fenn | non invasive brain implants | 16:47 |
| fenn | erm. | 16:47 |
| kanzure | and solar powered photocoppiers! | 16:47 |
| fenn | i guess that's sort of an oxymoron | 16:47 |
| kanzure | oxydouglasadams | 16:47 |
| fenn | how about we make some kind of genetic engineered fish that you shove in your ear | 16:48 |
| Marino | Some things you cannot just "Do". You need to know HOW to do them first. | 16:48 |
| Marino | that requires RESEARCH | 16:48 |
| fenn | then it sends biocompatible tendrils into your brain | 16:48 |
| fenn | so do some research | 16:49 |
| Marino | You know what I'm going to say. :P | 16:49 |
| kanzure | not really | 16:49 |
| fenn | not really | 16:49 |
| fenn | hey! | 16:49 |
| genehacker | you can make solarpower photocopiers | 16:49 |
| Marino | that to do the research you need the resources. I need a lab with the right equipment. | 16:50 |
| genehacker | film+ optics +paper to be copied | 16:50 |
| Marino | <_> | 16:50 |
| kanzure | Marino: then make a lab.. that sounds like a reasonable project to me | 16:50 |
| fenn | marino better learn how to acquire lab equipment then | 16:50 |
| kanzure | or how to build it | 16:50 |
| kanzure | probably acquire though | 16:50 |
| Marino | I will. When I am older. | 16:50 |
| fenn | boo | 16:51 |
| kanzure | hiss | 16:51 |
| kanzure | if not now, when? | 16:51 |
| genehacker | marino how do you give feedback on where the virtual arms are? | 16:51 |
| Marino | For now I have to deal with mundanity like all other teenagers. | 16:51 |
| fenn | by that logic you'll be dead before anything interesting happens | 16:51 |
| kanzure | what mundanity? | 16:51 |
| fenn | you know there are 15 year old's doing research at MIT right? | 16:51 |
| kanzure | and it's not because they are bright (they aren't) | 16:52 |
| Marino | Being old enough to think for yourself but not having the freedom to do what you want. | 16:52 |
| kanzure | Marino: what? | 16:52 |
| fenn | not saying it's a viable plan to go work at MIT or anything.. but you have to at least try before you give up | 16:52 |
| kanzure | well it's also not viable to work at a university anyway | 16:52 |
| Marino | Bryan - being a teenager. You are one. You know what it's like. :P | 16:52 |
| kanzure | I mean, you'll be subjected to the professor's whims and so on | 16:52 |
| kanzure | Marino: I'm actually quite oblivious. | 16:53 |
| Marino | I can't even drive yet. | 16:53 |
| fenn | i'll attest to that | 16:53 |
| kanzure | I couldn't drive until I was 18 | 16:53 |
| kanzure | so what? | 16:53 |
| Marino | No credit card. | 16:53 |
| Marino | I need permission. | 16:53 |
| fenn | you need a credit card to drive? | 16:53 |
| Marino | No. | 16:53 |
| Marino | It's a list. :P | 16:53 |
| kanzure | it's ok, the internet comes to you | 16:54 |
| genehacker | I probably should drive | 16:54 |
| fenn | if your parents and teachers etc etc are totally unsupporting and uncaring, you should find someone who will help | 16:54 |
| fenn | doing neuroscience is something that should be encouraged | 16:54 |
| genehacker | if I increase my carbon emission I might be able to make humans go into space faster | 16:54 |
| Marino | How? I can't go anywhere. | 16:54 |
| kanzure | Marino: the internet. | 16:54 |
| Marino | I'm literally stuck. | 16:54 |
| fenn | get a bike | 16:54 |
| kanzure | Marino: why do you have to go places | 16:55 |
| kanzure | do you not have a mailbox? | 16:55 |
| Marino | Nope, I don't actually. It's at the post office. PO Box | 16:55 |
| kanzure | what's bad about that? | 16:55 |
| fenn | is there a local community college or university? | 16:55 |
| Marino | Nope. | 16:56 |
| kanzure | do your parents ever check the mail? | 16:56 |
| genehacker | where do you need to go? | 16:56 |
| Marino | About once every couple weeks. :P | 16:56 |
| fenn | you can get a debit card which is for all intents and purposes a credit card | 16:56 |
| fenn | if you have a bank account | 16:57 |
| kanzure | parents like helping their children set up bank accounts | 16:57 |
| fenn | (not a pre-paid card, those suck) | 16:57 |
| fenn | heh | 16:57 |
| Marino | I don't need to go anywhere, not yet. I know what I am going to do when I go to college. It's just 3 years until I graduate, 2012. | 16:57 |
| kanzure | what are you doing before then? | 16:57 |
| fenn | don't waste your life just because you think you're stuck | 16:58 |
| fenn | learn something useful | 16:58 |
| kanzure | that's what I did and I regret it completely | 16:58 |
| Marino | go to school, do independent research, hang out with my friends, lead as much a normal life as possible | 16:58 |
| kanzure | school? | 16:58 |
| kanzure | I thought you said you can't go to a university | 16:58 |
| Marino | Yep | 16:58 |
| fenn | programming, electronics, math, writing | 16:58 |
| Marino | highschool. | 16:58 |
| kanzure | why are you in high school? | 16:58 |
| kanzure | that doesn't sound very useful for what you want to do | 16:58 |
| Marino | I'm 16. | 16:58 |
| kanzure | what does that have to do with it? | 16:58 |
| fenn | wait a minute i thought you were 15 | 16:59 |
| Marino | turned 16 on the 9th | 16:59 |
| Marino | still in 15 mode | 16:59 |
| fenn | happy birthday | 16:59 |
| Marino | thanks :P | 16:59 |
| Marino | I'm not going to drop out of school. | 16:59 |
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| kanzure | Marino: why not? | 16:59 |
| kanzure | it doesn't seem to be helping you | 17:00 |
| Marino | It isn't. | 17:00 |
| kanzure | .. | 17:00 |
| fenn | i suggest finding out what your school has to offer that YOU find useful, not what parents/teachers/counselors think you ought to want | 17:00 |
| Marino | There are many reasons not to drop out of highschool. | 17:00 |
| fenn | then find a way to arrange time to use those facilities, preferably while you're stuck in the school day | 17:01 |
| kanzure | Marino: come live with me | 17:01 |
| Marino | haha | 17:01 |
| Marino | I'm not sure where you guys live but in my town we have to do things that we do not want to. | 17:01 |
| Marino | I'm tolerating it while I have to. | 17:02 |
| kanzure | I have a brain disease that gives me an excuse to tell people to shut the fuck up when they are being retarded | 17:02 |
| fenn | why dont you go shoot some jews then | 17:02 |
| Marino | @fenn: I have no motivation to. @kanzure: That sucks, I'm sorry. | 17:02 |
| fenn | insert quote here about 'only thing for evil to happen is for good men to do nothing' | 17:02 |
| fenn | "we have to do things that we do not want to" | 17:03 |
| kanzure | Waste no more time arguing what a good man should be. Be one. — Marcus Aurelius | 17:03 |
| fenn | is a bald faced lie | 17:03 |
| kanzure | "You must be the change you want to see in the world." | 17:03 |
| kanzure | "Your effort to remain what you are is what limits you." | 17:03 |
| kanzure | "You must not be afraid to become who you are." | 17:03 |
| kanzure | "You think that's air you're breathing? It's tree fart!" | 17:03 |
| kanzure | er, that last one isn't as relevant as I thought it would be | 17:03 |
| fenn | uh oh | 17:04 |
| Marino | :P | 17:04 |
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| Marino | Yes, I know. I agree with all those, even the tree one. | 17:04 |
| kanzure | "Just start doing something! Inertia is the enemy of passion." | 17:04 |
| Marino | I am not going to waste my life. | 17:04 |
| kanzure | "Every truly great accomplishment is at first impossible." -- Chinese proverb | 17:04 |
| Marino | But while I am still dependent on my mother for my life, I need to abide by her rules. If I sound old fashioned, I'm sorry. | 17:04 |
| kanzure | you sound just like I did | 17:05 |
| kanzure | ‘It is necessary to any originality to have the courage to be an amateur.’ — Wallace Stevens | 17:05 |
| fenn | i suggest mapping out your dependencies | 17:05 |
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| kanzure | Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done. -- Louis Brandeis | 17:05 |
| fenn | mother does not imply 'life support system' | 17:05 |
| kanzure | "Now, the basic problem is this: the problem of being finite is an infinitely frustrating one; how can this be?" | 17:05 |
| fenn | Marino: do you really think it's going to get any easier when you grow older? | 17:06 |
| fenn | in fact you will have less people supporting you | 17:07 |
| kanzure | there's this magical fairy that comes by when you're 18 and tells you everything you ever needed to know | 17:07 |
| Marino | Yes. I will get to live my own life. | 17:07 |
| Marino | I know. | 17:07 |
| kanzure | she also brings you a driver's license | 17:07 |
| kanzure | and a handbook on how to operate your brain | 17:07 |
| kanzure | and the latest copy of the Federal Register | 17:07 |
| Marino | really? Wow. I never knew that. | 17:08 |
| fenn | so anyway this is not #carrer-roadmap | 17:08 |
| fenn | career* | 17:09 |
| fenn | if you want to talk about something interesting, go ahead | 17:09 |
| Marino | Nope, I'm done. | 17:09 |
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| fenn | sigh | 17:09 |
| kanzure | aw. I liked ihm. | 17:09 |
| kanzure | *him | 17:09 |
| fenn | "hi guys, i want to build BCI. help i'm stuck in a 15 year old body! k thx bye" | 17:10 |
| genehacker | how do I make phosphorus without get phossy jaw? | 17:10 |
| kanzure | maybe I shouldn't talk to young children | 17:10 |
| --- Log closed Sat Jun 13 17:10:46 2009 | ||
| --- Log opened Sat Jun 13 17:11:15 2009 | ||
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| -!- Irssi: #hplusroadmap: Total of 19 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 19 normal] | 17:11 | |
| genehacker | hmmm... | 17:11 |
| genehacker | I need an electric arc furnace | 17:11 |
| --- Log closed Sat Jun 13 17:11:54 2009 | ||
| --- Log opened Sat Jun 13 17:17:32 2009 | ||
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| -!- Irssi: #hplusroadmap: Total of 18 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 18 normal] | 17:17 | |
| -!- Irssi: Join to #hplusroadmap was synced in 13 secs | 17:17 | |
| kanzure | beep | 17:18 |
| genehacker | now then how do I make a solar furnace that tracks the sun and let's me use the focused light without working at an odd angle | 17:19 |
| genehacker | kanzure, pak chooie unf | 17:19 |
| fenn | move the target, not the dish | 17:21 |
| fenn | bounce semi-focused light off a flat secondary mirror | 17:22 |
| genehacker | or build a solar pumped laser | 17:22 |
| genehacker | then things get complicated | 17:23 |
| fenn | complicated is bad | 17:27 |
| genehacker | yeah | 17:32 |
| genehacker | now what about some sort of light pipe? | 17:34 |
| kanzure | "trnashumanism: we'll get there! someday." | 17:39 |
| kanzure | *transhumanism | 17:40 |
| genehacker | damn you sigma aldrich! | 17:40 |
| kanzure | genehacker: you know you have access to sigma-aldrich through sata, right? | 17:40 |
| genehacker | I know I do kanzure | 17:41 |
| kanzure | then what's the problem | 17:41 |
| genehacker | the problem is that a lot of other people don't | 17:41 |
| kanzure | how symapthetic of you :) | 17:41 |
| fenn | i suggest getting something working | 17:41 |
| kanzure | *sympathetic of you :) | 17:41 |
| fenn | vs worrying about how to fix the entire planet all at once | 17:41 |
| PeerInfinity | hmm... is there already an official name for the movement that says "we're almost there now. get out of the car and help push"? | 17:41 |
| kanzure | what? | 17:41 |
| kanzure | there is no movement that says that | 17:42 |
| kanzure | there's just a lot of angry mad scientists yelling at you | 17:42 |
| PeerInfinity | what about your group here, don't you count? | 17:42 |
| kanzure | no, we can't convince anyone to help us | 17:42 |
| PeerInfinity | but you haven't given up yet | 17:43 |
| kanzure | what? | 17:43 |
| genehacker | so now you get why I don't want to rely on ONE or A FEW chemical supplier | 17:43 |
| genehacker | s | 17:43 |
| kanzure | sure, but you don't typically think like that genehacker | 17:43 |
| kanzure | so that's an improvement. | 17:43 |
| kanzure | just interesting, that's all | 17:43 |
| genehacker | what I don't/ | 17:44 |
| kanzure | PeerInfinity: the problem is that in order to push you have to shut up | 17:45 |
| kanzure | or something. | 17:46 |
| genehacker | also if we rely on sigma aldrich or one chemical supplier then the next terrorism prevention law or what not could shut us down | 17:46 |
| genehacker | and that would be bad | 17:46 |
| PeerInfinity | shutting up is what I do best :) | 17:46 |
| fenn | yotta- 1e24 # Greek or Latin octo, "eight" | 17:47 |
| kanzure | PeerInfinity: maybe you want to help us on the projects now? | 17:47 |
| fenn | yocto- 1e-24 # Greek or Latin octo, "eight" | 17:47 |
| genehacker | so if we make our own chemicals we don't have to worry about regulation like the DiyBio people are | 17:47 |
| kanzure | right | 17:47 |
| PeerInfinity | (by the way, Activism is one of the four main principles of Singularitarianism, according to the original Singularitarian Principles document: http://yudkowsky.net/obsolete/principles.html#activism ) | 17:48 |
| kanzure | RAWR | 17:48 |
| kanzure | ME EAT ELI | 17:48 |
| kanzure | http://heybryan.org/eli.html | 17:48 |
| fenn | you really didnt have to do that you know | 17:48 |
| genehacker | activism doesn't do much | 17:48 |
| * PeerInfinity reads... | 17:48 | |
| * kanzure stomps around | 17:48 | |
| genehacker | it's better if make it so that progress can't be stopped | 17:49 |
| genehacker | so I need phospholabile phosphoramidites | 17:50 |
| kanzure | why not extract nucleotides from food like your body does | 17:53 |
| genehacker | that may end up being one of the steps | 17:53 |
| genehacker | we extract nucleotides and turn them into nucleoside phosphoramidites | 17:54 |
| genehacker | oh wait we don't | 17:54 |
| genehacker | we turn them into plain old nucleosides | 17:54 |
| genehacker | my bad | 17:54 |
| genehacker | we need nucleoside phosphoramidites, chemically modified nucleosides | 17:55 |
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| genehacker | specifically photolabile phosphoramidites | 17:55 |
| kanzure | genehacker: well, write down the steps please. | 17:55 |
| genehacker | ok | 17:55 |
| genehacker | Synthesis of photolabile phosphoramidites. The MeNPOC-HEG-cyanoethylphosphoramidite | 17:56 |
| genehacker | (CEP) and MeNPOC-base-CEPs were synthesized | 17:56 |
| genehacker | according to the protocol described by McGall and colleagues8. Briefly, 3,4- | 17:56 |
| genehacker | (methylenedioxy)acetophenone (Aldrich Chemical Co., Milwaukee, WI) was | 17:56 |
| genehacker | reacted with glacial acetic acid and 70% (vol/vol) HNO3 to produce methyl | 17:56 |
| genehacker | 3,4-(methylenedioxy)-6-nitrophenyl ketone. This molecule was reacted with | 17:56 |
| genehacker | sodium borohydride to produce (R,S)-1-(3,4-(methylenedioxy)-6-nitrophenyl) | 17:56 |
| genehacker | ethanol, which was then reacted with phosgene to produce (R,S)-1- | 17:56 |
| genehacker | (3,4-(methylenedioxy)-6-nitrophenyl)ethyl chloroformate (MeNPOC-Cl). | 17:56 |
| genehacker | This molecule was attached to hexaethylglycol and A(PAC), C(ibu), and | 17:56 |
| genehacker | G(ibu). These molecules were then converted to phosphoramidites by reacting | 17:56 |
| genehacker | with 2-cyanoethyl N,N,N’,N’-tetraisopropylphosphorodiamidite and | 17:56 |
| genehacker | diisopropyl ammonium tetrazolide to produce the final products. | 17:56 |
| kanzure | er how about in a text file or something | 17:57 |
| kanzure | so that we don't have to refer back to IRC logs all the time | 17:57 |
| genehacker | it's in a paper I sent you | 17:58 |
| kanzure | email? | 17:58 |
| kanzure | when did you send it? | 17:58 |
| genehacker | no | 17:59 |
| genehacker | here's a better paper | 18:00 |
| genehacker | http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/ja964427a | 18:00 |
| genehacker | BRB | 18:00 |
| genehacker | proxying | 18:00 |
| PeerInfinity | ok, I admit it, I'm too stupid (or too brainwashed?) to see the point of that eli.html link you sent me. Would it be possible for you to create a point-form list of the main things Eliezer gets wrong? or the things about Eli that annoy you so much? | 18:01 |
| kanzure | nevermind- I have to leave soon- maybe I'll get around to it later, but it's mostly me ranting | 18:15 |
| PeerInfinity | ok | 18:16 |
| genehacker | huh? DMT is a hallucinogen? | 18:17 |
| genehacker | SHIT | 18:19 |
| genehacker | that's a chemical we need | 18:19 |
| genehacker | well there are different DMTs | 18:20 |
| genehacker | nope it isn't | 18:59 |
| genehacker | http://www.technologyreview.com/blog/arxiv/23650/ | 19:07 |
| ybit | btw, fennetic.net has been down for awhile it seems | 19:58 |
| -!- genehacker_ [n=chatzill@cpe-67-9-133-167.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #hplusroadmap | 20:21 | |
| -!- genehacker [n=chatzill@cpe-67-9-157-136.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] | 20:25 | |
| -!- genehacker_ is now known as genehacker | 20:25 | |
| genehacker | hello? | 20:43 |
| genehacker | is anyone there? | 20:43 |
| genehacker | hello? | 20:46 |
| genehacker | oh god I am connected | 20:46 |
| PeerInfinity | hi :) | 20:46 |
| genehacker | I don't have the internet | 20:46 |
| PeerInfinity | oh? what do you have then? | 20:47 |
| genehacker | but I have chat | 20:47 |
| genehacker | local access | 20:47 |
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| -!- elias` [n=c@host86-159-170-69.range86-159.btcentralplus.com] has joined #hplusroadmap | 22:43 | |
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| kanzure | back | 23:27 |
| kanzure | ybit: try heybryan.org port 8086 or 8087 | 23:27 |
| -!- xp_prg [n=xp_prg3@98.234.52.78] has joined #hplusroadmap | 23:33 | |
| kanzure | ok now I have all of the necessary content to get stuff done but it's all over the place | 23:46 |
| kanzure | heh smari knows some techniques apparently. how lovely. | 23:55 |
| kanzure | why isn't this already in a library? should I go find a library to contribute this to? | 23:56 |
| kanzure | yay it's uploading 1.3 MB/sec | 23:58 |
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