| --- Day changed Tue Jul 21 2009 | ||
| -!- wrldpc2 [n=benny@pool-173-48-253-182.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] | 01:18 | |
| genehacker | biosafety level 5: hot agent is known to degrade seals | 03:55 |
|---|---|---|
| genehacker | biosafety level 6: hot agent is uncharacterized and could cause irreparable environmental damage if released | 03:56 |
| kanzure | biosafety level 7: hot agent is human. | 04:51 |
| genehacker | heh | 04:56 |
| genehacker | now all you have to do is implant that DNA synthesizer.... | 04:56 |
| genehacker | I wonder if you'd be able to fly on airplanes if you were a cyborg | 04:57 |
| QuantumG | steve mann wasn't | 04:58 |
| QuantumG | of course, some say he just went to the airport to cause a scene | 04:58 |
| genehacker | huh? | 05:01 |
| genehacker | he wasn't allowed to fly? | 05:02 |
| genehacker | CYBORGS ARE HUMANS TOO! | 05:02 |
| CIA-73 | skdb: kanzure * r2d0c097723d6 /inventory/receipt-schema.yaml: more attributes | 05:03 |
| kanzure | oh didn't even see schema.yaml | 05:03 |
| kanzure | my changes might be redundant | 05:04 |
| genehacker | kanzure mind linking me to some documentation on how generate parts for that cad system of yours? | 05:06 |
| CIA-73 | skdb: kanzure * r67b893d35142 /inventory/schema.yaml: need to know the vendor name | 05:07 |
| kanzure | genehacker: one second | 05:07 |
| genehacker | I'd sorta like to make a rolamite bearing part generator | 05:07 |
| kanzure | you see the files in here? http://adl.serveftp.org/skdb/pymates/models/ | 05:08 |
| kanzure | check out blockhole.yaml | 05:08 |
| kanzure | every part nees to have a part.yaml file too | 05:08 |
| kanzure | and then also a part.step file (the CAD file) | 05:08 |
| kanzure | and it needs to generally follow the pattern shown here: | 05:09 |
| kanzure | http://adl.serveftp.org/skdb/pymates/models/blockhole.yaml | 05:09 |
| kanzure | or here: http://adl.serveftp.org/skdb/pymates/models/peg.yaml | 05:09 |
| * kanzure sleeps | 05:09 | |
| genehacker | I think I'll do the same | 05:09 |
| -!- genehacker [n=noko@cpe-67-9-157-136.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] | 06:53 | |
| -!- CIA-73 [n=CIA@208.69.182.149] has quit [] | 06:55 | |
| -!- CIA-44 [n=CIA@208.69.182.149] has joined #hplusroadmap | 07:09 | |
| kanzure | fab@home http://groups.google.com/group/fabathome-forums | 07:43 |
| kanzure | reprap-michigan http://groups.google.com/group/reprap-michigan | 07:43 |
| kanzure | reprap-chicago http://groups.google.com/group/chicago-reprap | 07:43 |
| kanzure | reprap-bay-area http://groups.google.com/group/bay-area-reprap | 07:43 |
| kanzure | reprap-brisbane http://groups.google.com/group/reprap-brisbane | 07:43 |
| kanzure | huh youtube is down | 08:11 |
| kanzure | python wrapper to amazon: http://pyaws.sourceforge.net/ | 08:18 |
| -!- wrldpc2 [n=benny@pool-173-48-253-182.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #hplusroadmap | 09:06 | |
| -!- samrose [n=samrose@24.11.214.181] has joined #hplusroadmap | 09:08 | |
| kanzure | hey samrose | 09:39 |
| kanzure | samrose: what are you doing december 5th? | 09:39 |
| samrose | haha, not to sure kanzure | 09:43 |
| samrose | what should I be doing? :) | 09:43 |
| kanzure | samrose: fenn and I are running a session on hardware package management at hplus summit, and we were asked who should be on the panel with us | 09:46 |
| kanzure | I mentioned Smari and a few others, and then totally forgot about you | 09:46 |
| kanzure | huh pywordnet is too old and expects wordnet2.0? debian testing has wordnet3.0 :p | 09:47 |
| Smari | hmm | 09:47 |
| Smari | when is that summit and where? | 09:47 |
| kanzure | chicago, december 5th | 09:47 |
| kanzure | transportation may be provided.. maybe. | 09:47 |
| Smari | Interesting. | 09:47 |
| kanzure | Smari: didn't you get the email? | 09:48 |
| samrose | kanzure, that would be great! I will double check my email | 09:49 |
| kanzure | samrose: you didn't get the email, sorry | 09:49 |
| kanzure | that's why I said I totally forgot about you | 09:50 |
| samrose | ok, well, thanks for thinking about me | 09:50 |
| samrose | maybe between now and then, I can get some contributions into this thing too | 09:50 |
| kanzure | heh would you be interested? | 09:50 |
| kanzure | that would be nice | 09:50 |
| samrose | certainly | 09:50 |
| samrose | I would be interested | 09:51 |
| kanzure | it's kind of a panel on "industrial literacy and how to be a badass" | 09:51 |
| samrose | we have some real-world implementations that would likely offer funding based on technology centered around local food systems, and urban agriculture | 09:51 |
| samrose | so, that could be a place to start for me | 09:51 |
| kanzure | the conference is mainly about transhumanism | 09:52 |
| samrose | I see | 09:52 |
| kanzure | however the topics overlap a lot I guess | 09:52 |
| fenn | so smari that means the typical doom and gloom speech probably wouldnt go over too well | 09:52 |
| fenn | because everyone's sick of hearing it | 09:53 |
| samrose | well, I am interested in transhumanism in some ways, so am definitely interested | 09:53 |
| kanzure | yeah the transhumanist groups already sit around with their tail between their asses | 09:53 |
| kanzure | and don't want to do anything about it. so this is changing. | 09:53 |
| samrose | well, I am already contributing to writing a kind of transhumanist book that basically asks what it will look like when we get beyond basic physiological and psychological survival | 09:55 |
| samrose | we are applying this to economics and technology development | 09:55 |
| kanzure | meh | 09:55 |
| kanzure | are you doing any hardware building these days? | 09:55 |
| samrose | mostly in crumbling urban settings like Detroit, Cleveland, Pittsburgh | 09:55 |
| samrose | yes | 09:55 |
| samrose | hardware based around food production | 09:56 |
| samrose | urban agriculture | 09:56 |
| Smari | kanzure, I don't think I did. | 09:56 |
| samrose | hardware that assists living machines | 09:56 |
| kanzure | Smari: do you check your anarchism.is account? | 09:56 |
| samrose | and some related stuff | 09:56 |
| Smari | kanzure, I do. | 09:56 |
| fenn | subject: "Mutual introductions" | 09:57 |
| Smari | kanzure, but I'm behind on mailing list mail. | 09:57 |
| Smari | was it personal mail? | 09:57 |
| fenn | not like the email said much anyway | 09:57 |
| kanzure | Smari: yes it was personal mail | 09:57 |
| kanzure | the email didn't say much, that's true | 09:57 |
| Smari | in that case I didn't get it. | 09:57 |
| fenn | it was sent to smarimc@gmail.com | 09:58 |
| Smari | oh that would be why. | 09:58 |
| Smari | I don't read that. | 09:58 |
| kanzure | ok resent | 09:58 |
| kanzure | ah, nice to know | 09:58 |
| kanzure | sent it to both | 09:58 |
| kanzure | tuition is due august 12th | 09:59 |
| kanzure | hopefully jata will fly us up there before then | 09:59 |
| Smari | I reply to my name at @anarchism.is, @fabfolk.com, | 09:59 |
| kanzure | I'll try to remember that. | 10:00 |
| samrose | brb | 10:00 |
| -!- samrose [n=samrose@24.11.214.181] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] | 10:00 | |
| Smari | fenn, I don't do "gloom and doom". I do "humanity has a choice, if we make the wrong one we're screwed, here's my idea of what the right one might look like." | 10:00 |
| fenn | oh, good | 10:00 |
| kanzure | the existential risk community is saturated | 10:01 |
| kanzure | they already think they are at the top of their game | 10:01 |
| Smari | haha | 10:01 |
| kanzure | they were completely unwilling to listen to me because manufacturing is unreasonable or something | 10:01 |
| kanzure | maybe it would be different for you | 10:02 |
| Smari | existential risk folks annoy me too. | 10:02 |
| Smari | they're severe doomsayers. | 10:02 |
| kanzure | right and that's what this community is about right now | 10:02 |
| kanzure | and we're trying to change that | 10:02 |
| Smari | and won't be told that doom can be averted, because that means they're out of a job. | 10:02 |
| fenn | that's why any reasonable plan of action involves dismantling the global employee state we've got going | 10:03 |
| -!- samrose [n=samrose@24.11.214.181] has joined #hplusroadmap | 10:04 | |
| samrose | I would like to start documenting the food production hardware projects with skdb. I realize that we are not there yet, but I think one way to get there is to make it easy for people to put info into their own project files. | 10:09 |
| kanzure | okay | 10:09 |
| samrose | do you see what I am saying? | 10:09 |
| kanzure | yeah of course | 10:09 |
| kanzure | I think it's great that you want to do that | 10:09 |
| kanzure | and I think you should maybe write up a yaml file for a basic food production hardware project that follows the basic format we have introduced in the git repo | 10:10 |
| samrose | actually, if I or we make a way that people can generate this meta data, it could make the process extremely easy | 10:10 |
| kanzure | like "autoproject"? yeah | 10:10 |
| samrose | sure | 10:10 |
| kanzure | but first we need to know the structure | 10:10 |
| kanzure | so right now it's kind of hard | 10:10 |
| kanzure | because we have to do it manually | 10:10 |
| kanzure | but eventually maybe we won't have to | 10:10 |
| samrose | yes, if there was a standard for project files, then it could autogenerate the yaml | 10:10 |
| fenn | not really | 10:11 |
| samrose | and, this would boost uptake by other users | 10:11 |
| fenn | you would still have to fill out most of it by hand | 10:11 |
| fenn | but having templates would be nice | 10:11 |
| kanzure | the program would just ask you questions or something | 10:11 |
| kanzure | which is kind of pointless if you know how to type it yourself | 10:11 |
| * fenn waves his hands in the and sprinkles pixie dust | 10:11 | |
| samrose | well, you could have something that could get you 80% of the way there | 10:11 |
| kanzure | samrose: I think you should start by trying to come up with a valid yaml file that represents the hardware package | 10:11 |
| samrose | sure, that is fine | 10:12 |
| kanzure | feel free to clone the repo and commit something, and I'll take a looksie and see if it's valid | 10:12 |
| fenn | look at screw.yaml | 10:12 |
| samrose | sure | 10:12 |
| kanzure | fenn: didn't screw.yaml get screwed a bit? | 10:12 |
| -!- Whickety-Whack [n=duggerjw@pool-71-164-142-210.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #hplusroadmap | 10:12 | |
| kanzure | it used to be longer | 10:12 |
| kanzure | hello Whickety-Whack | 10:12 |
| Whickety-Whack | Hello, kanzure. | 10:12 |
| samrose | but, typing shit out by hand is not how I usually operate, and I disagree that you'd be forced to type this out all by hand no matter what | 10:13 |
| fenn | yes it used to have stuff about head, material, finish.. but that's irrelevant | 10:13 |
| Whickety-Whack | Just here to listen and learn, for the time being. A closed mouth gathers no feet, etc. | 10:13 |
| fenn | samrose: the data has to come from somewhere | 10:13 |
| samrose | fenn obviously | 10:13 |
| kanzure | fenn: don't you know it comes from the data integration entity? god. you're so stupid. | 10:14 |
| kanzure | :p | 10:14 |
| fenn | you've got it all backwards | 10:14 |
| fenn | it all comes from Our Lady Eris | 10:14 |
| samrose | what I am saying is that if I make something at least partially from existing plans and specs, that I can figure out a way to generate data from that | 10:15 |
| kanzure | hm how do I get from a OCC.TopoDS.TopoDS_Shape to an OCC.AIS.Handle_AIS_Shape? | 10:15 |
| samrose | for instance, if I make a device that combines arduino with a case and components that I make in a CAD program, I now have data before I start typing out YAML | 10:17 |
| kanzure | I think you should look at what we have already. | 10:17 |
| samrose | kanzure have done so | 10:17 |
| kanzure | the "case" and "components" should be in skdb to begin with | 10:17 |
| samrose | you are missing what I am saying | 10:18 |
| samrose | if I have a case and components that are in some data format, I can write scripts that transform that into SKDB YAML | 10:18 |
| samrose | how many designs and specs currently exist in digital form? | 10:19 |
| kanzure | they don't.. | 10:19 |
| kanzure | it's usually just CAD models | 10:19 |
| samrose | sure they do | 10:19 |
| kanzure | but not any metadata | 10:19 |
| kanzure | where? | 10:19 |
| kanzure | I'd like to see those files.. really. I just haven't found them yet., | 10:19 |
| samrose | CAD models can be used to create metadata | 10:19 |
| samrose | CAD models have a data mode | 10:19 |
| samrose | l | 10:19 |
| kanzure | well I've never seen HeeksCAD or BRLCAD show me this information | 10:19 |
| CIA-44 | skdb: * rfdf00f47b631 /screw.yaml: i guess this ought to use normal tags if it's going to be an example file | 10:19 |
| CIA-44 | skdb: * r323e29742fbe / (21 files in 5 dirs): Merge branch 'master' of ssh://adl.serveftp.org/var/www/skdb | 10:19 |
| kanzure | or even if its existence | 10:19 |
| kanzure | *of its existence | 10:19 |
| samrose | you are still misunderstand | 10:20 |
| samrose | ing | 10:20 |
| fenn | samrose: "some data format" is what exactly? | 10:20 |
| samrose | any | 10:20 |
| samrose | it doesn't matter | 10:20 |
| fenn | STL doesnt say anything about where to get documentation | 10:20 |
| fenn | it's just triangles | 10:20 |
| kanzure | have you ever looked at these files? heh' | 10:21 |
| samrose | how does the program know where the triangles should be placed? | 10:21 |
| fenn | there is some fancy PDM stuff but i have no idea how to read or write those formats, or what the concepts mean even | 10:21 |
| samrose | ok, what I am saying is that is not a problem for me | 10:21 |
| kanzure | I'd like some examples. | 10:22 |
| samrose | they mean something | 10:22 |
| kanzure | do you have any PDM files? | 10:22 |
| samrose | what you mean you'd like some examples? | 10:22 |
| kanzure | I think you're bullshitting | 10:22 |
| kanzure | but I would love to be wrong | 10:22 |
| kanzure | so I'd like some files to play with | 10:22 |
| fenn | somehow i doubt you have access to ISO documents describing STEP PDM formats | 10:22 |
| kanzure | that has this information supposedly in it | 10:22 |
| samrose | Do you have some CAD files? | 10:22 |
| fenn | about 70,000 of them | 10:22 |
| samrose | ok, what is in those files? | 10:23 |
| kanzure | lots of points | 10:23 |
| kanzure | STEP, IGES, etc. | 10:23 |
| fenn | i can only read a couple thousand of them | 10:23 |
| samrose | How does the cad program know what to do with them? | 10:23 |
| kanzure | it doesn't.. | 10:23 |
| fenn | there's no "cad program" in the first place | 10:24 |
| fenn | i'm using OCC to parse the STEP AP203/214 and display the resulting geometry | 10:24 |
| fenn | i dont even know if the files contain other AP's | 10:24 |
| samrose | Then OCC is the lib that is part of the transformation to create metadata | 10:24 |
| kanzure | do you know what metadata is | 10:24 |
| fenn | no, OCC only does AP203/214 which is pure geometry | 10:25 |
| samrose | ok, fuck this | 10:25 |
| fenn | i wish the world were a cleaner, more transparent place | 10:25 |
| fenn | but as it is we have to deal with closed standards and dig through the dregs of defunct government projects | 10:26 |
| kanzure | so I'm confused. | 10:27 |
| fenn | some of the stuff in screw.yaml is metadata; other stuff is data | 10:28 |
| fenn | everything down to 'screw:' is metadata | 10:29 |
| fenn | the rest i'm not sure about; is "!screw" data or metadata? | 10:29 |
| fenn | it's just a type statement | 10:30 |
| kanzure | so it doesn't seem I can get an OCC.AIS.Handle_AIS_Shape from this: http://adl.serveftp.org/lab/opencascade/doc/ReferenceDocumentation/ModelingData/html/classTopoDS__Shape.html | 10:30 |
| kanzure | http://adl.serveftp.org/lab/opencascade/doc/ReferenceDocumentation/Visualization/html/classAIS__Shape.html | 10:32 |
| kanzure | oh actually | 10:32 |
| kanzure | AIS_Shape.Set(TopoDS_Shape) | 10:33 |
| kanzure | "Constructs an instance of the shape object ashape. " | 10:33 |
| kanzure | I'm rewriting the way I do transformations | 10:33 |
| kanzure | er wait, I need to go the other way around. huh.. | 10:34 |
| kanzure | self.shapes = my_step_importer.GetShapes() | 10:35 |
| kanzure | that's not really useful if that just returns the AIS handler.. | 10:35 |
| kanzure | what about the TopoDS_Shape from a STEP file? | 10:35 |
| CIA-44 | skdb: * rb8e4f09c9932 / (occ_shell.py shell.py): rename to be less ambiguous | 10:37 |
| kanzure | oh GetShapes() returns TopoDS_Shape. great. | 10:37 |
| -!- genehacker [n=noko@cpe-67-9-157-136.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #hplusroadmap | 10:38 | |
| kanzure | how sad. I already implemented this. :( part.shapes | 10:38 |
| fenn | a tragedy | 10:39 |
| kanzure | which one is the typo? | 10:44 |
| kanzure | http://www.opencascade.org/org/forum/thread_9860/ | 10:44 |
| kanzure | trsf or trf? | 10:44 |
| kanzure | oh tsf is the variable name | 10:44 |
| Smari | have replied. | 10:48 |
| kanzure | thanks | 10:52 |
| kanzure | just saw it | 10:52 |
| kanzure | fenn: jata wants to move it back to aug 1/2. here deadline is the 12th for whether or not we're going to be moving up there. | 10:52 |
| kanzure | or, at least, the deadline for me | 10:53 |
| kanzure | for you it's probably open ended | 10:53 |
| -!- genehacker [n=noko@cpe-67-9-157-136.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [] | 10:54 | |
| -!- genehacker [n=noko@cpe-67-9-157-136.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #hplusroadmap | 10:54 | |
| Smari | Yay, everything is coming together. | 10:56 |
| Smari | Two conferences confirmed, two possible ones hinging on the question of funding... | 10:57 |
| kanzure | fenn: campbell said that if I take the cross product between o_n_vec and o_vx_vec, that I should put the resulting vector in the middle of the four by four matrix. but there is no middle to four.. | 10:57 |
| Smari | Getting a visa for Afghanistan is alarmingly difficult, even the second time around. | 10:57 |
| kanzure | does the cross product of the normal vector and the vx vector go into the third column of the 4x4 matrix? | 11:06 |
| genehacker | please wait while I parse my knowledge of vector algebra | 11:07 |
| fenn | the second column i think | 11:08 |
| kanzure | campbell explicitly said that the second column is the missing vy_vec | 11:08 |
| fenn | right | 11:08 |
| kanzure | so the cross product of the normal vector and the vx vector is the vy_vector? | 11:08 |
| fenn | yep | 11:08 |
| kanzure | well then. | 11:08 |
| kanzure | the notes are kind of weird then | 11:09 |
| kanzure | because it says "now find the vy_vec" *after* I do the cross product | 11:09 |
| fenn | well there's probably some crap about normalization | 11:09 |
| kanzure | Smari: what conferences in particular? | 11:10 |
| kanzure | samrose: did you die? | 11:10 |
| samrose | on a call | 11:10 |
| Smari | FAB5 (5th Symposium on Digital Fabrication), FSCONS (Nordic Free Society and Software conference), ReykjavÃk Digital Freedoms Conference, and then the H+ Summit. | 11:11 |
| Smari | FAB5 and H+ being the maybes. | 11:11 |
| kanzure | fun lineup | 11:11 |
| kanzure | hope you can get some work done | 11:11 |
| Smari | FAB5 is 20 days from now, so either I get a plane ticket to Mumbai or not. :) | 11:11 |
| fenn | india vs chicago, i know which one i'd pick | 11:11 |
| Smari | fenn, which? | 11:11 |
| Smari | I choose both, if funding is available. | 11:12 |
| fenn | india | 11:12 |
| Smari | During monsoon season? You're crazy. :) | 11:12 |
| fenn | yeh | 11:12 |
| Smari | I knew there was a reason we get on so well. :P | 11:13 |
| wrldpc2 | Did anyone here go to SingSum last year? | 11:16 |
| kanzure | not to my knowledge | 11:16 |
| samrose | kanzure, fenn, I am not saying that I have already created what I am talking about. I am saying that I think it is possible to create | 11:18 |
| Whickety-Whack | wrldpc2: No, I didn't attend Singularity Summit 2008. | 11:18 |
| kanzure | samrose: I don't know what you are talking about. | 11:19 |
| kanzure | are you saying that given a screw BRep model, | 11:19 |
| kanzure | you can generate screw.yaml for us? | 11:19 |
| samrose | that is the theory | 11:19 |
| kanzure | have you looked at screw.yaml? | 11:19 |
| samrose | yes | 11:19 |
| fenn | that sounds really difficult | 11:20 |
| samrose | well, the intitial work could be difficult | 11:21 |
| fenn | there'd be no way to know it's a "grade 3" bolt | 11:21 |
| samrose | or, maybe not | 11:21 |
| samrose | depends on how you approach it | 11:21 |
| fenn | given some geometry, how do you know what material it is? | 11:21 |
| samrose | what if I want to apply one geometry to multiple materials | 11:22 |
| samrose | ? | 11:22 |
| fenn | you're thinking of the cad file as the "resource" whereas I'm thinking of it more as a representation | 11:22 |
| -!- genehacker [n=noko@cpe-67-9-157-136.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] | 11:23 | |
| fenn | the "actual" data | 11:23 |
| -!- genehacker [n=noko@cpe-67-9-157-136.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #hplusroadmap | 11:23 | |
| samrose | right now, your only choice is to manually enter in the material type | 11:23 |
| samrose | into YAML | 11:23 |
| fenn | of course | 11:23 |
| genehacker | or figure the stress applied to it, if this part can be made with out scratches of X size | 11:24 |
| samrose | let's really look at this thing | 11:24 |
| genehacker | easy stuff | 11:24 |
| samrose | author: 'ben lipkowitz' | 11:24 |
| samrose | license: 'GPL2+' | 11:24 |
| samrose | urls: | 11:24 |
| samrose | - 'http://heybryan.org/mediawiki/index.php/Skdb' | 11:24 |
| samrose | - 'http://fennetic.net/git/gitweb.cgi?p=skdb.git;a=blob_plain;f=screw.yaml' | 11:24 |
| samrose | - 'git://fennetic.net/git/skdb.git/' | 11:24 |
| samrose | 11:24 | |
| samrose | screw: !!python/object:skdb.Screw | 11:24 |
| samrose | grade: '3' | 11:24 |
| samrose | length: 1in | 11:24 |
| samrose | thread: !!python/object:skdb.Thread | 11:24 |
| samrose | diameter: 1/4*in | 11:24 |
| samrose | form: UN | 11:24 |
| samrose | pitch: 20rev/in | 11:24 |
| samrose | how much of the above is currently represented in any way digitally? | 11:24 |
| fenn | in some .stp file? | 11:24 |
| fenn | (there is no cad file) | 11:25 |
| samrose | it's all manually created, right? | 11:25 |
| fenn | right | 11:25 |
| kanzure | so that others won't have to | 11:25 |
| fenn | we've been playing with the idea of a "generator" which would take this data and spit out some cad geometry | 11:25 |
| fenn | in various levels of detail | 11:25 |
| samrose | that is a cool idea too | 11:25 |
| genehacker | if the part is ceramic you can easily figure out it's probability of survival if you can figure out applied stress | 11:26 |
| Smari | Unfortunately this complicates things, as I was planning on trying to get to Japan for christmas and new years. | 11:26 |
| genehacker | remember to pack lots of boxes | 11:26 |
| kanzure | a ceramic christmas? | 11:26 |
| genehacker | what I hear is that you're going to want to take stuff home | 11:27 |
| Smari | hahaha | 11:27 |
| Smari | I'm still in the previous discussion | 11:27 |
| Smari | sorry | 11:27 |
| samrose | no prob | 11:27 |
| fenn | samrose: i dont believe in autogenerated source code | 11:27 |
| Smari | went away for a moment, a friend of mine just successfully folded part of hyperbolic space into euclidian space in the lab, and I wanted to take a look at it. | 11:27 |
| samrose | neither do I | 11:27 |
| genehacker | dang | 11:28 |
| fenn | samrose: so; i see the "laboriously hand entered text" as a good thing, because that's all i'll ever have to do (theoretically) | 11:28 |
| genehacker | those are hard to fold | 11:28 |
| samrose | well, all I am asking you to do is make a standard way to enter data into skdb | 11:28 |
| samrose | that's it | 11:28 |
| fenn | that's what i'm doing | 11:28 |
| samrose | great | 11:28 |
| kanzure | that's what this is.. | 11:28 |
| samrose | is there something that we can validate against? | 11:29 |
| samrose | probably not yet | 11:29 |
| fenn | are you talking about some web interface thing with forms? | 11:29 |
| samrose | but that is ok | 11:29 |
| kanzure | what do you mean validate against? | 11:29 |
| samrose | no | 11:29 |
| fenn | kanzure: DTD stuff | 11:29 |
| kanzure | YAML doesn't require DTDs | 11:29 |
| fenn | samrose: when you parse yaml into a live object, the object should check itself and see if it makes sense | 11:29 |
| fenn | this way you can cast a screw as a fastener, for instance | 11:30 |
| fenn | er, typecast | 11:30 |
| samrose | what does the object check itself against? | 11:30 |
| fenn | with XML DTD's you can't really add a bunch of random extra data | 11:30 |
| samrose | not asking you to make DTD | 11:30 |
| fenn | checks the types of its own data | 11:30 |
| fenn | like, length should be in some distance unit | 11:31 |
| samrose | so, each yaml file is a self-contained standard | 11:31 |
| Smari | It's only about 0.3m³ of Euclidian space, but about 1/5th of the hyperbolic space is enclosed. | 11:31 |
| fenn | no, the standard is in the classes which get instantiated with yaml data | 11:31 |
| samrose | the classes that are part of your code | 11:31 |
| fenn | yeah. if you can think of some way to define classes that's not just python, let me know | 11:32 |
| fenn | i dont see a problem with it though | 11:32 |
| samrose | this is done. You can make python classes, methods, functions, etc available as HTTP calls | 11:32 |
| kanzure | you just download new classes | 11:32 |
| fenn | i have no idea what you mean by that | 11:32 |
| samrose | I have created wrappers that will do this | 11:32 |
| kanzure | eggs? | 11:32 |
| kanzure | what's wrong with eggs? | 11:33 |
| samrose | no | 11:33 |
| kanzure | see, this is why this is a hardware package management system | 11:33 |
| samrose | could be, but that is not what they are yet :) | 11:33 |
| fenn | SOAP stuff? | 11:33 |
| samrose | http service or REST | 11:33 |
| samrose | SOAP could be done too | 11:33 |
| kanzure | so you *were* talking about web stuff | 11:33 |
| samrose | I don't really care | 11:33 |
| fenn | i dont want to rely on a server somewhere when i can just download the damn code and run it locally | 11:33 |
| samrose | any protocol could be used | 11:33 |
| kanzure | I'm confused, are you still explaining how to go from brep->data that you don't even know exists? | 11:34 |
| samrose | you could totally run it all locally | 11:34 |
| samrose | this is great | 11:34 |
| samrose | kanzure, it depends on what is in brep | 11:35 |
| kanzure | do you know what brep is? | 11:35 |
| fenn | take a look at this pic: http://adl.serveftp.org/git/gitweb.cgi?p=skdb.git;a=blob;f=Skdb.png | 11:35 |
| samrose | boundary rep? | 11:35 |
| kanzure | yes. not "screw information rep" | 11:35 |
| ybit | man, i'm stressed for some reason... why do we crave companionship, why would i want a kid, i don't know why i was thinking either today. genes playing with the brain?.. | 11:36 |
| * ybit is some type of emo philosopher | 11:36 | |
| fenn | the two big cylinders are databases on the other side of the net.. you download yaml data and other data.. it gets parsed and stuffed into local code (the puzzle pieces) and yields an object (the hexagons) | 11:36 |
| ybit | i forget: no philosophy | 11:37 |
| kanzure | that's not philosophy, that's just you being confused | 11:37 |
| kanzure | no confusion allowed | 11:37 |
| ybit | :P | 11:37 |
| samrose | fenn: what are you speaking of a^^ ? | 11:37 |
| fenn | then once you have an object you can do all sorts of stuff like make them fight each other, or generate CAM files | 11:37 |
| fenn | samrose: the picture i linked to | 11:37 |
| * samrose clicks | 11:37 | |
| Whickety-Whack | fenn: The picture doesn't represent any physical objects, does it? | 11:39 |
| fenn | Whickety-Whack: the physical objects are the plug and outlet at the top | 11:39 |
| Whickety-Whack | fenn: I thought the top row represented widely-held knowledge about outlets and plugs? | 11:40 |
| samrose | the class instance is the rep of phys object | 11:40 |
| fenn | right | 11:40 |
| fenn | um, you're both right | 11:40 |
| Whickety-Whack | Ah, so the top row refers to some Platonic outlet and plug? | 11:41 |
| kanzure | er.. | 11:41 |
| kanzure | no. | 11:41 |
| kanzure | the top refers to a deb file basically | 11:41 |
| fenn | in order to have any meaningful representation of a specific plug, you have to come up with a description of plugs in general | 11:41 |
| fenn | kanzure: no, not right | 11:41 |
| samrose | could you not generate the yaml file from wiring schematic data for instance | 11:41 |
| kanzure | they are the packages | 11:41 |
| kanzure | samrose: no | 11:41 |
| samrose | I see the problem with screw | 11:41 |
| fenn | kanzure: the middle row is the deb file | 11:41 |
| kanzure | oh sorry | 11:41 |
| kanzure | that's right | 11:41 |
| samrose | but there are other objects in this univers | 11:41 |
| Whickety-Whack | I thought the packages were the middle row, the skdb? | 11:41 |
| kanzure | Whickety-Whack: yes | 11:41 |
| samrose | beyond screwa | 11:41 |
| samrose | srews | 11:41 |
| kanzure | Whickety-Whack: sorry. I wasn't looking at it | 11:41 |
| kanzure | samrose: that's right | 11:42 |
| kanzure | samrose: that's why I thought you said you were interested in packaging some food tools | 11:42 |
| samrose | then what's all the fuss about? | 11:42 |
| kanzure | which is great. we need people to package stuff like that | 11:42 |
| samrose | either way I am going to do it | 11:42 |
| kanzure | you said that given boundary-representation you can generate the yaml | 11:42 |
| Whickety-Whack | What does the bottom row indicate? I don't understand that part of the diagram. | 11:42 |
| fenn | "doing stuff" | 11:43 |
| fenn | like "sudo make me a sandwich" | 11:43 |
| kanzure | Whickety-Whack: /dev refers to hardware that carries out the instructions. either the humans or the machines that make sandwiches. | 11:43 |
| Whickety-Whack | It seems to mix code, fabrication, and IRL testing. | 11:43 |
| kanzure | the bottom? | 11:43 |
| fenn | Whickety-Whack: well, if it doesn't work, you ought to make a note of that somewhere so someone doesn't repeat your mistakes, right? | 11:43 |
| Whickety-Whack | The row below {running code}. | 11:43 |
| Whickety-Whack | No argument from me, though I've had more co-workers who'd disagree than not. | 11:44 |
| kanzure | you seem to have something against coworkers | 11:44 |
| kanzure | this is the second time today you've badmouthed them :p | 11:44 |
| Whickety-Whack | I am not cynical, just resigned. :) | 11:45 |
| kanzure | 'Another (python ) based tool called skeinforge can read an STL file and produce GCODE toolpaths. ' | 11:45 |
| samrose | well, given a brep, we could at least generate part of the yaml | 11:45 |
| samrose | depending on nature of brep | 11:45 |
| fenn | maybe. i think it'd be a lot simpler to just enter the data than teach the computer how to recognize abstract properties from geometry | 11:46 |
| samrose | is there some other source for what is not in brep for an object? | 11:46 |
| samrose | simple for a screw, but what about a ship? | 11:46 |
| fenn | especially since we dont have any cad files to begin with | 11:46 |
| kanzure | "some other source" what? | 11:46 |
| fenn | not any useful ones at least | 11:46 |
| samrose | I am asking YOU | 11:46 |
| fenn | samrose: that's what i was talking about PDM | 11:46 |
| kanzure | I don't know what you mean by "source" | 11:46 |
| fenn | PDM is "all the other stuff" essentially | 11:47 |
| samrose | anything, any source that could give material data, etc etc | 11:47 |
| kanzure | they don't seem to exist. and if they do, you can't really be sure it's about the same thing | 11:47 |
| samrose | forget about "screw", for anything, is there any other source for data beyond brep for an object? | 11:47 |
| kanzure | not in typical cad, no. | 11:47 |
| kanzure | that's why we're doing this. | 11:47 |
| kanzure | we're not purposefully trying to reinvent the wheel | 11:48 |
| kanzure | (oh wait.) | 11:48 |
| samrose | well, I believe you | 11:48 |
| kanzure | then why did you claim that I was wrong | 11:48 |
| samrose | yet, having worked in industrial realm for a while, I do have some experience with this | 11:48 |
| samrose | and, I think you might be surprised that there are some possibilities for what I am talking about | 11:49 |
| fenn | such as? | 11:49 |
| -!- genehacker [n=noko@cpe-67-9-157-136.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Connection timed out] | 11:50 | |
| samrose | existing data | 11:50 |
| kanzure | .. | 11:51 |
| fenn | in what format? | 11:51 |
| samrose | in any, it does NOT matter | 11:51 |
| samrose | unless there is no way to even read it | 11:51 |
| samrose | I also think that it could be possible to speed up the entry of data in the first place, dimensions, materials, etc | 11:52 |
| fenn | do we even have any data files to draw from to build an open source technology distribution? | 11:52 |
| samrose | for someone doing this from scratch | 11:52 |
| samrose | I think it would be worth looking | 11:52 |
| fenn | i mean it's all industrial-age stuff that doesn't really apply to build-from-scratch situation | 11:53 |
| samrose | yes, much of it is hidden | 11:53 |
| samrose | let me offer an examples | 11:53 |
| samrose | example | 11:53 |
| fenn | the idea is to gather open stuff like OSE and put it in a common format | 11:53 |
| kanzure | if you have the files on your hard drive please email them at least | 11:54 |
| fenn | not hack into lockheed martin and download jet engine schematics | 11:54 |
| kanzure | master hax0r | 11:54 |
| samrose | of course | 11:54 |
| samrose | let's say that I make a self contained food growing system | 11:54 |
| samrose | a small plastic box with plants in it | 11:55 |
| samrose | and an automated lighting, watering, feeding etc system | 11:55 |
| samrose | let's say that I *ask* those whom I source components from to provide me with specs, and sell them on the idea based on the premise that they might sell more materials | 11:56 |
| samrose | and lets say that I give them a way to make it easier for them to generate those specs in the first aplce | 11:56 |
| samrose | place | 11:56 |
| samrose | maybe they have them all in a spreadsheet | 11:56 |
| fenn | and they send you a .docx file with photographs in it | 11:56 |
| samrose | maybe it's in a db | 11:57 |
| samrose | maybe, and maybe I ask them to send me data | 11:57 |
| kanzure | package maintainers exist for a reason. | 11:57 |
| Whickety-Whack | Or perhaps just a PDF? | 11:57 |
| samrose | I am just talking about how to gather data here | 11:57 |
| kanzure | sometimes they don't have it | 11:58 |
| samrose | package maintainers or no | 11:58 |
| kanzure | in this situation you would be the package maintainer | 11:58 |
| samrose | I will bet that people who make wire have data on it.... | 11:58 |
| kanzure | sure, let's hope so | 11:58 |
| samrose | people who make hoses? bet they do too | 11:58 |
| * fenn prays to the Borg TimeCube | 11:58 | |
| samrose | arduino, as a company, I will bet they have lots of data about a controller | 11:59 |
| samrose | the idea is to convince them of the value of releasing that data | 11:59 |
| samrose | this will help populate your DB | 11:59 |
| kanzure | you seem to be jumping from topic to topic | 12:00 |
| kanzure | I'm having trouble following | 12:00 |
| fenn | i dont see how a spreadsheet is going to help me automatically annotate a cad file | 12:01 |
| Whickety-Whack | Fenn, I think samrose might mean a case where you get a spreadsheet or nothing. | 12:01 |
| kanzure | well he's claiming he has some magic way of figuring out the YAML file given only boundary-representation | 12:02 |
| kanzure | so I don't think he's talking about that | 12:02 |
| Whickety-Whack | Please go on, samrose. | 12:03 |
| samrose | I work with John Deere currently, and I think they could be interested in contributing to this db | 12:03 |
| samrose | especially if they think people will fab products that they would use with John Deere equipment | 12:03 |
| samrose | just one example | 12:03 |
| samrose | but, back here in the here and now, I do hear what kanzure and fenn are saying for indendent from-scratch flex fab. | 12:03 |
| samrose | that is going to be many people manually building this up | 12:03 |
| samrose | understood | 12:03 |
| kanzure | well you've effectively lost me | 12:04 |
| samrose | kanzure, I am claiming that it is possible to make PART of your YAML file from brep, possibly | 12:04 |
| kanzure | I'm going to go back to work | 12:04 |
| samrose | ok | 12:04 |
| kanzure | which part? | 12:04 |
| samrose | the geometric rep | 12:04 |
| kanzure | that's not part of the YAML file | 12:04 |
| samrose | length and diameter are not in there at all, you are right | 12:05 |
| kanzure | you mean the parametric terms? | 12:06 |
| samrose | length and diameter | 12:06 |
| kanzure | is it a parametric CAD file? | 12:06 |
| kanzure | I mean, we don't even have a screw CAD file at the moment | 12:06 |
| samrose | ok, what if you did? | 12:06 |
| samrose | jesus | 12:06 |
| samrose | I have to go | 12:06 |
| kanzure | well can OCC read it or not? | 12:06 |
| kanzure | or will I have to write my own parametric CAD file translator? | 12:07 |
| samrose | yes, I am saying we write translators | 12:07 |
| kanzure | from what format? | 12:07 |
| samrose | why does that matter? | 12:08 |
| kanzure | because I can't just will the information from The Void | 12:08 |
| samrose | what are you trying to prove by asking me "what format" | 12:08 |
| kanzure | I can't just magically program a reader for something I don't know about | 12:09 |
| samrose | I can imagine it would be the commonly available formats | 12:09 |
| samrose | for CAD files | 12:09 |
| kanzure | does STEP have that information? | 12:09 |
| fenn | yes | 12:09 |
| kanzure | okay problem solved | 12:09 |
| kanzure | you could have just said that STEP has parametric variables in it | 12:09 |
| kanzure | good god | 12:09 |
| fenn | that's not what he said | 12:09 |
| samrose | what did I say? | 12:09 |
| fenn | he's talking about doing feature recognition based on arbitrary geometry (could be mesh for example) | 12:10 |
| fenn | right? | 12:10 |
| samrose | (following along) | 12:10 |
| samrose | :) | 12:10 |
| samrose | right! | 12:10 |
| samrose | in part | 12:10 |
| fenn | ok. the problem is, that's a Hard Problem | 12:10 |
| fenn | i.e. an unsolved problem | 12:10 |
| fenn | similar to tracing lines from a scanned in image | 12:10 |
| samrose | I am talking about doing multiple representations based on the common ways that people are representing their physical object data now | 12:10 |
| fenn | "why can't you just convert .jpg to .svg?" | 12:11 |
| kanzure | no you're not | 12:11 |
| kanzure | that has nothing to do with what you just said "right!" to | 12:11 |
| samrose | well, ok, not right then | 12:11 |
| samrose | I am saying, starting with CAD files, that you could map to dimensions in your YAML, possibly | 12:12 |
| fenn | it's even worse than just OCR, it's more like OCR + NLP | 12:12 |
| fenn | because you dont know what parameter corresponds to what property | 12:12 |
| kanzure | that's what class methods should be for | 12:13 |
| fenn | and in the end it's just geometry, which is only a small set of the information we need in order to test compatibility | 12:13 |
| kanzure | screw.get_length(screw_file) | 12:13 |
| fenn | ugh | 12:13 |
| kanzure | screw_CAD_file | 12:14 |
| fenn | you just have a bunch of geometry; how do you know which part of the geometry is the diameter? | 12:14 |
| fenn | computers arent good at guessing | 12:14 |
| samrose | could be entered in by people while making cad file | 12:14 |
| samrose | I realize this is not what I said | 12:14 |
| samrose | but this is what I am thinking | 12:15 |
| fenn | in reality people don't label things so thoroughly | 12:15 |
| samrose | true | 12:15 |
| samrose | which is why CAD program could recognize a circle, and some program could calc diameter of circle (all circles in file) | 12:17 |
| samrose | or, of outside edges | 12:17 |
| fenn | and then what? which diameter do you pick? | 12:17 |
| samrose | you can map diameters to sections of the geometry | 12:18 |
| fenn | that doesn't solve anything | 12:18 |
| samrose | sure it does | 12:18 |
| fenn | now you have a bunch of geometry; which geometry do you pick? | 12:18 |
| fenn | say we have a bolt with three diameters: the threads, the head, and the body | 12:18 |
| samrose | depends on the object | 12:19 |
| samrose | why would you not want all of that geometric data? | 12:19 |
| samrose | you don't want to know the size of the head? | 12:19 |
| samrose | the threads? | 12:20 |
| fenn | because it's too computationally expensive to compare every detail to every other detail when searching the DB | 12:20 |
| kanzure | I think you two are talking about different things | 12:20 |
| samrose | yes we are | 12:20 |
| kanzure | fenn: bring up the class structure for a screw right about now | 12:20 |
| kanzure | the data goes into the screw instance | 12:20 |
| fenn | screws already have a standard for defining the thread geometry | 12:20 |
| samrose | I think I need to look more closely at your code before pushing this onto you more | 12:20 |
| samrose | but continu | 12:21 |
| samrose | e | 12:21 |
| fenn | the most popular one is the UN thread form, which has a 60 degree triangle with flat tops and rounded bottoms; nominal thread diameter is the distance from flat top to flat top | 12:21 |
| fenn | you can't put a whitworth bolt in a UN hole, it'll jam, even though they have the same diameter | 12:21 |
| samrose | sure | 12:21 |
| fenn | but if you match up UN bolts to UN holes with the same nominal diameter and thread class, it's guaranteed to work | 12:22 |
| fenn | we only have to compare two values | 12:22 |
| fenn | now, that's just talking about screws | 12:22 |
| fenn | there are thousands of other types of devices | 12:22 |
| fenn | are you going to write feature recognition code for everything in existence? | 12:22 |
| samrose | fenn: is that my only choice? | 12:23 |
| fenn | well, you could look up more information on the screw | 12:23 |
| kanzure | samrose: you should read the code if you haven't already | 12:23 |
| kanzure | I thought you had, | 12:23 |
| fenn | it's probably written somewhere what thread form and class it is | 12:23 |
| samrose | If you ask me a question, that is preloaded with the assumption that there is only one choice, then I don't know how to answer | 12:23 |
| kanzure | so I was assuming that you already know what we're talking about | 12:23 |
| kanzure | but if you're coming from a knowledge of CAD only | 12:24 |
| kanzure | then this explains why I'm having so much trouble communicating with you | 12:24 |
| samrose | s'ok | 12:24 |
| fenn | just looking at the code is not terribly informative | 12:24 |
| fenn | i wish it were so simple | 12:24 |
| samrose | it will help me understand the fundamental structure of what kind of model you are trying to create | 12:25 |
| fenn | but this is a whole process, like trying to explain what wikipedia or debian is before there's any such thing | 12:25 |
| samrose | I thought I already understood, but there are some gaps in my understanding apparently | 12:25 |
| kanzure | and it's hard enough explaining debian as it is | 12:25 |
| fenn | the closest thing to a model is that diagram, or i guess you could look at the autogenix spec, but it's old and i've changed my mind on some things | 12:26 |
| samrose | Well, the whole discussion is moot in terms of what I can help with in the short term | 12:26 |
| samrose | which is to document data on existing projects | 12:26 |
| samrose | but, I am thinking about how to speed up the process *where* data exists that can be mapped to data needed for skdb | 12:27 |
| fenn | well one thing that would be useful is if you parsed the matweb data into something useful | 12:28 |
| * fenn chases his tail | 12:28 | |
| fenn | we have web scrapes of a materials database | 12:28 |
| fenn | but i have no idea what sort of data is in there | 12:28 |
| samrose | that would be awesome to take a crack at too | 12:29 |
| samrose | you tell me what is useful | 12:29 |
| samrose | and I will focus on that | 12:29 |
| fenn | tensile strength, conductivity, thermal conductivity, density, color, coefficient of friction wrt other materials.. (there's a list i posted to OM..) | 12:30 |
| samrose | what is the output that you need? | 12:30 |
| fenn | i'm not entirely sure yet | 12:31 |
| samrose | ok | 12:31 |
| samrose | so, you are still at the "standard creation" phase | 12:31 |
| samrose | meaning, that you are still creating a standard way to deal with the different objects in your system | 12:31 |
| samrose | which is understandable | 12:31 |
| fenn | materials.yaml is as far as i've gotten | 12:31 |
| samrose | ok, we could start with that | 12:32 |
| fenn | the "similar" field is for incomplete data | 12:32 |
| fenn | so we can fish around nearby materials to get values for fields we dont have | 12:32 |
| samrose | or, I could start by matching whatever you currently have in materials.yaml | 12:32 |
| fenn | but there's a lot of weird stuff i didnt know how to represent, like values changing with temperature or pressure | 12:32 |
| samrose | I wonder how people doing physical modeling represent these dynamics? | 12:34 |
| samrose | like, how scipy represents, could give a clue | 12:34 |
| fenn | http://groups.google.com/group/openmanufacturing/browse_thread/thread/92b7cb596061d785/757d7eda29096dc1?lnk=gst&q=open+materials#757d7eda29096dc1 | 12:34 |
| fenn | it's nice if all your data comes from the same viewpoint, but it doesn't | 12:35 |
| kanzure | scipy doesn't seem to represent it at all | 12:35 |
| * kanzure has checked the docs | 12:35 | |
| fenn | so for example you could have a number, or a range, or an uncertainty, or a function that depends on indeterminate values | 12:36 |
| fenn | then there's domain-specific properties | 12:37 |
| fenn | for example brass turns easily but is hard to drill | 12:37 |
| fenn | or some aluminum alloy is better for casting than another | 12:37 |
| fenn | do you encode that information in the material data or the data about the manufacturing process? | 12:37 |
| fenn | i've been putting it in the process | 12:38 |
| -!- Netsplit holmes.freenode.net <-> irc.freenode.net quits: wrldpc2, tarbo2_, samrose | 12:39 | |
| -!- Netsplit over, joins: wrldpc2, samrose, tarbo2_ | 12:40 | |
| wrldpc2 | http://www.youtube.com/user/JMEMantzel | 12:44 |
| wrldpc2 | DIY roboticist in the mountains of Vermont | 12:44 |
| wrldpc2 | built his own lumber mill to build his workshop to build his giant robot | 12:44 |
| fenn | "open everything conference": Tuition is $395 per person, plus food and accomodation. | 12:47 |
| fenn | Food and accomodation ranges from tents ($77) to super nice private rooms ($200). | 12:47 |
| fenn | does that mean they provide the tent? | 12:47 |
| samrose | fenn maybe I will make one or more suggested design patterns when I go through the process of parsing your db to YAML | 12:48 |
| samrose | fenn and you can accept or shoot down as you wich | 12:48 |
| samrose | wish | 12:48 |
| fenn | ok, thanks | 12:48 |
| samrose | I will implement them in code | 12:48 |
| samrose | this will also help me get more familiar with your code | 12:49 |
| samrose | fenn where is the database? | 12:49 |
| fenn | matweb? /me pokes kanzure | 12:49 |
| samrose | fenn: on OM list you ask: | 12:50 |
| samrose | i already know we dont have any lawyers on this list, but does anyone know | 12:50 |
| samrose | the legality of programmatically extracting the data from, say, a webpage | 12:50 |
| samrose | or an ebook, and then redistributing it in a different form? | 12:50 |
| samrose | what about by hand? at what point is it no longer "fair use"? | 12:50 |
| samrose | I think if this is annotation, that you are still working with fair use | 12:50 |
| samrose | especially if source is included | 12:50 |
| fenn | it's not anything to do with fair use, actually | 12:50 |
| kanzure | matweb is on leibniz | 12:50 |
| samrose | ok | 12:50 |
| fenn | you can't copyright data, so extracting the data and putting it in a different format should be perfectly legal | 12:51 |
| samrose | fenn I agree | 12:51 |
| samrose | no different than loading a web page | 12:51 |
| fenn | you can only copyright "creative expression" supposedly | 12:51 |
| samrose | in your browser, and then adding annotation | 12:51 |
| fenn | but i'm sure a lawyer could find some way to fuck over just about anyone | 12:51 |
| samrose | that is stored locally | 12:51 |
| samrose | heh, probably | 12:52 |
| fenn | i thought NIST would have all sorts of materials data, but i guess not | 12:53 |
| samrose | fenn you have kind of a vague requirements list on that thread, of categories. I will start with those, but it could be cool to see what a majority of concerned people think about what categories should be represented | 12:53 |
| fenn | yeah it's vague because i dont know everything | 12:53 |
| samrose | yes, of course | 12:54 |
| samrose | not your fault | 12:54 |
| samrose | but, I can start with that list | 12:54 |
| samrose | coefficient of friction wrt other materials | 12:54 |
| samrose | density | 12:54 |
| samrose | tensile strength | 12:54 |
| samrose | modulus | 12:54 |
| samrose | fatigue and creep info | 12:54 |
| samrose | electrical properties | 12:54 |
| samrose | chemical resistance | 12:54 |
| samrose | changes due to temperature (including tempering processes) | 12:54 |
| samrose | machinability | 12:54 |
| samrose | elemental makeup | 12:54 |
| samrose | similarity to other materials | 12:54 |
| samrose | price and availability | 12:54 |
| samrose | then, we could get lots of people to throw down on suggested sources | 12:54 |
| samrose | then, based on source, think about how to import | 12:54 |
| samrose | the sources are where many people could help | 12:55 |
| samrose | I think | 12:55 |
| -!- Whickety-Whack [n=duggerjw@pool-71-164-142-210.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit ["Leaving"] | 12:55 | |
| samrose | not just people on OM list, but people in Universities, etc | 12:55 |
| samrose | for each property, or category, it would be good to know what the current problems are for that (like aforementioned temp, pressure, etc | 12:56 |
| samrose | or at least the known problems | 12:56 |
| fenn | yeah i was hoping to at least get some glimmer of a response from openmaterials | 12:57 |
| samrose | fenn do you guys have a specific wiki where you are working on this? | 12:57 |
| fenn | not really | 12:57 |
| samrose | where would you prefer? | 12:57 |
| -!- wrldpc2 [n=benny@pool-173-48-253-182.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] | 12:57 | |
| fenn | http://adl.serveftp.org/dokuwiki/ ? | 12:58 |
| samrose | fenn did you guys kill off your media wiki site? | 12:58 |
| samrose | using dokuwiki now (fine by me if so) | 12:58 |
| fenn | heybryan.org isnt exactly reliably available | 12:59 |
| samrose | :) | 12:59 |
| samrose | ok, I would use your wiki to map out the structure, and methods and meta info. And, point other people to that | 13:00 |
| samrose | if that is ok with you | 13:00 |
| fenn | sure | 13:00 |
| samrose | ok | 13:00 |
| fenn | want to put it here? http://adl.serveftp.org/dokuwiki/materials | 13:01 |
| samrose | sure | 13:02 |
| samrose | we may end up with a page for each property | 13:02 |
| samrose | if that is ok | 13:02 |
| fenn | ok | 13:02 |
| fenn | can do a namespace if it gets ridiculous | 13:02 |
| samrose | but all mapped back to that one | 13:02 |
| samrose | I will try to keep it simple | 13:02 |
| kanzure | you may as well just write a YAML file of it | 13:02 |
| samrose | yes! | 13:02 |
| kanzure | isn't that the idea | 13:02 |
| kanzure | sigh | 13:03 |
| samrose | kanzure | 13:03 |
| samrose | I will write yaml file | 13:03 |
| samrose | the wiki will only be used to park info | 13:03 |
| samrose | like the issues we talked about here | 13:03 |
| samrose | where it is easy, we'll just parse data to yaml, and document how it is done | 13:04 |
| samrose | is that ok? | 13:04 |
| Smari | Shite, HAR2009 just sold out. | 13:04 |
| fenn | parse what to yaml? | 13:04 |
| fenn | oh like matweb, sure | 13:04 |
| samrose | data you have scraped | 13:04 |
| samrose | my face | 13:04 |
| samrose | anything | 13:04 |
| fenn | i think if we're going to be redistributing anything it should be the .yaml files | 13:05 |
| samrose | that is what we are talking here | 13:05 |
| samrose | let's recap | 13:05 |
| fenn | since we can't exactly redistribute the source data if it's encumbered | 13:05 |
| samrose | You will send me a db | 13:05 |
| samrose | I will parse to yaml | 13:05 |
| samrose | I will document the methods for doing so on your wiki | 13:06 |
| fenn | how about you just commit the code you used to parse it | 13:06 |
| samrose | ok | 13:06 |
| samrose | what about those things that are open questions? | 13:06 |
| fenn | like what? | 13:06 |
| samrose | dynamics | 13:06 |
| samrose | thermal, pressure, etc | 13:07 |
| samrose | you don't yet have an idea for how you want to represent | 13:07 |
| fenn | that's what you're supposed to be figuring out | 13:07 |
| fenn | :) | 13:07 |
| samrose | and, I will use your wiki to park that figuring out | 13:07 |
| samrose | is what I am saying | 13:07 |
| fenn | ok; feel free to cc openmanufacturing | 13:07 |
| fenn | god forbid we discuss something topical | 13:07 |
| samrose | ok, I will be sure to copy there | 13:08 |
| samrose | gotta go will talk later | 13:08 |
| fenn | ciao | 13:09 |
| -!- samrose [n=samrose@24.11.214.181] has left #hplusroadmap ["Ex-Chat"] | 13:11 | |
| -!- Netsplit holmes.freenode.net <-> irc.freenode.net quits: tarbo2_ | 13:23 | |
| xp_prg | is anyone seeing my postings on the diybio-sf and diybio emailing lists? | 13:26 |
| kanzure | yes, they just don't like emails | 13:30 |
| xp_prg | nobody is responding to me :( | 13:31 |
| kanzure | welcome to the club | 13:35 |
| Smari | I hate people who don't reply to e-mails. | 13:36 |
| -!- tarbo2 [n=me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has joined #hplusroadmap | 13:36 | |
| kanzure | Smari: then you must love me | 13:37 |
| CIA-44 | skdb: kanzure * r663b1f88afc5 /pymates/pymates.py: committing pymates before I go too far | 13:37 |
| CIA-44 | skdb: kanzure * r7009c05eb57a / (occ_shell.py shell.py): Merge branch 'master' of ssh://bryan@adl.serveftp.org/var/www/skdb | 13:37 |
| Smari | kanzure, in a very platonic way. | 13:39 |
| -!- drazak [n=drazak@drazak.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] | 13:43 | |
| -!- samrose [n=samrose@c-24-11-214-181.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #hplusroadmap | 13:55 | |
| -!- drazak [n=drazak@drazak.net] has joined #hplusroadmap | 13:56 | |
| ybit | argh, i had things to talk about (toolbook), but i have work | 13:56 |
| xp_prg | I know toolbook | 13:58 |
| fenn | different toolbook i bet | 13:59 |
| fenn | not the educational software | 13:59 |
| xp_prg | oh what are you talking about? | 14:01 |
| kanzure | how many times have I sent the link to you | 14:05 |
| kanzure | too many to count | 14:05 |
| fenn | i can't seem to find it in the archives | 14:06 |
| kanzure | http://heybryan.org/om.html | 14:06 |
| kanzure | fenn: find what? | 14:06 |
| fenn | oh nevermind http://groups.google.com/group/openmanufacturing/browse_thread/thread/4205d64009a98fce# | 14:06 |
| CIA-44 | skdb: * r1165986a3ddd /inventory/receipt-schema.yaml: more stuff | 14:08 |
| samrose | fenn, where is this scraped data? Else, I can rescrape | 14:12 |
| kanzure | samrose: I had to write a tor wrapper for the data | 14:15 |
| kanzure | er, for the scraper | 14:15 |
| kanzure | because it blocks you every 100 downloads | 14:15 |
| kanzure | so anyway, it's on heybryan.org at the moment | 14:15 |
| kanzure | http://heybryan.org/books/Manufacturing/matweb.zip | 14:15 |
| kanzure | (it's 479 MB) | 14:16 |
| -!- Smari [n=spm@nmi-gw.eyjar.is] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] | 14:17 | |
| fenn | that's 3 hr upload at 40kB/s | 14:17 |
| samrose | wget eta 2d 10h and decreasing! :-D | 14:17 |
| samrose | where did you scrape this from? | 14:18 |
| kanzure | matweb.com | 14:18 |
| samrose | thanks kanzure | 14:18 |
| kanzure | samrose: I'll bring it in to the lab tomorrow so that you can download it quickly | 14:18 |
| samrose | I will also try that out | 14:18 |
| kanzure | you'll get it in about 10 seconds from adl.serveftp.org once I bring it in on a flash drive | 14:18 |
| samrose | ok, I won't download as it will further bog down heybryan | 14:18 |
| kanzure | thanks | 14:18 |
| kanzure | my poor server :( | 14:19 |
| samrose | is that you own machine? | 14:19 |
| fenn | i'll snip off a representative sample | 14:19 |
| samrose | fenn, ok | 14:19 |
| samrose | fenn did you scrape search urls? | 14:20 |
| kanzure | ? | 14:20 |
| samrose | I guess I will see when you send me an example | 14:20 |
| kanzure | I did the scrape | 14:20 |
| samrose | oh, sorry | 14:20 |
| kanzure | but blame fenn if it sucks | 14:21 |
| kanzure | :p | 14:21 |
| samrose | did you just recursively scrape the whole she-bang? | 14:21 |
| kanzure | no | 14:21 |
| kanzure | there's about 80,000 entris | 14:21 |
| kanzure | entries | 14:21 |
| kanzure | so I selectively iteratively scraped just those entries | 14:21 |
| samrose | I see | 14:21 |
| kanzure | but every 100 entries the script had to get a new tor IP | 14:21 |
| fenn | samrose: http://fennetic.net/irc/sample.tgz | 14:23 |
| kanzure | http://adl.serveftp.org/matweb-sample/sample/ | 14:25 |
| fenn | aroo? | 14:25 |
| samrose | thnx fenn | 14:26 |
| kanzure | oh apparently that's the same server | 14:26 |
| kanzure | so.. yeah. | 14:26 |
| fenn | shh | 14:26 |
| samrose | ok, I can work out a method with this | 14:27 |
| samrose | kanzure, did you know that most, if not all YAML is valid JSON? | 14:46 |
| samrose | err, I guess I should have said all JSON is valid YAML | 14:46 |
| samrose | yes. the latter is what I meant | 14:47 |
| kanzure | no, didn't care to check I guess | 14:47 |
| samrose | well, not that I blame you. I take it you don't usually muck about with this kind of stuff | 14:47 |
| kanzure | nah, I do, I just haven't bothered to use JSON | 14:48 |
| kanzure | what should my i and k be for the peg? | 14:51 |
| kanzure | for the top interface of the peg | 14:51 |
| fenn | is it pointing in y or z? | 14:51 |
| kanzure | y | 14:51 |
| fenn | i,k = [0,0,0], [0,0,0] | 14:52 |
| fenn | oops | 14:52 |
| fenn | what are i and k again? | 14:52 |
| fenn | i,k = [1,0,0], [0,0,1] | 14:53 |
| -!- Smari [n=spm@88.149.89.58] has joined #hplusroadmap | 14:57 | |
| -!- genehacker [i=genehack@w-central-233-27.public.utexas.edu] has joined #hplusroadmap | 15:01 | |
| CIA-44 | skdb: kanzure * r93ea7af96f05 /pymates/ (assembly.py models/peg.yaml pymates.py shell.sh): show interface points with giant spheres | 15:08 |
| CIA-44 | skdb: kanzure * r7ea48d746d2b /pymates/models/notes: notes on the models | 15:11 |
| kanzure | fenn: note the color of the spheres on this commit. they are supposed to be red. there's definitely some funky lighting going on. | 15:15 |
| Smari | kanzure, which debian package contains OCC? | 15:23 |
| kanzure | it's in testing | 15:24 |
| kanzure | so add testing to your /etc/apt/sources.list | 15:25 |
| kanzure | then do apt-cache search libopencascade | 15:25 |
| kanzure | and check that 6.3.0 is showing | 15:25 |
| kanzure | fenn claims that libopencascade-ocaf-6.3.0 gets everything | 15:25 |
| kanzure | er, or one of the other packages. fenn? | 15:25 |
| kanzure | Smari: also, here are some notes for your convenience: | 15:25 |
| Smari | I'm actually on ubuntu. | 15:25 |
| kanzure | http://adl.serveftp.org/dokuwiki/occ | 15:25 |
| kanzure | http://adl.serveftp.org/dokuwiki/pythonocc | 15:25 |
| fenn | libopencascade-dev | 15:25 |
| fenn | not ocafblarf | 15:26 |
| bkero | Hot fucking shit. | 15:26 |
| fenn | you might have to get packages from opennovation | 15:26 |
| bkero | I got a Google Wave invite. | 15:26 |
| kanzure | Smari: they might have it | 15:26 |
| Smari | bkero, gimmie! | 15:26 |
| bkero | Can't | 15:26 |
| kanzure | then why tell us | 15:26 |
| bkero | Because I'm going to do a screencast of it | 15:27 |
| kanzure | "oh man I got a hotmail account. I'm so hot." | 15:27 |
| bkero | I'll see if I get any invited after I'm in. | 15:27 |
| Smari | kanzure, "libopencascade6.2 set to manually installed." | 15:27 |
| Smari | exclusivity sucks. | 15:27 |
| bkero | Yea | 15:28 |
| bkero | :( | 15:28 |
| CIA-44 | skdb: kanzure * r6fb99d6b7539 /pymates/ (models/README models/notes pymates.py): rawr | 15:29 |
| kanzure | Smari: there's a deb for ubuntu on opennovation.org | 15:33 |
| fenn | ~/local/pythonOCC/samples/Level1/Geometry/geometry_demos.py | 15:34 |
| kanzure | er why are there M16s in the hallway?L | 15:39 |
| Smari | kanzure, you're in Texas. | 15:41 |
| fenn | that's what i said | 15:41 |
| fenn | the question properly ought to have been 'why are there dudes with M16s in the hallway' | 15:42 |
| Smari | ah. Now that's a better question. Did either of you plant explosives on campus? | 15:42 |
| fenn | they're just chillin' | 15:42 |
| kanzure | Matt: no I got a notice :" I received a call from Michael Slotboom that the police are looking for an armed gunman in ETC. He has on a white shirt and has red hair. Lock yourself in your office or get out of the building " | 15:42 |
| kanzure | that email would have been useful | 15:43 |
| kanzure | gee thanks guys | 15:43 |
| kanzure | always looking out for me | 15:43 |
| Smari | hahaha | 15:44 |
| Smari | that's hillarious. | 15:44 |
| kanzure | (Matt's the prof) | 15:44 |
| fenn | i got an email from UT safety alert saying 'sign up for emergency text messaging' | 15:46 |
| kanzure | so UTPD is twittering? | 15:46 |
| fenn | they sort of forgot to mention the whole gunman thing though | 15:46 |
| fenn | wow i can get notices from utparking | 15:47 |
| kanzure | I always get those notices. | 15:47 |
| kanzure | "24th street will be closed." | 15:47 |
| kanzure | and then it is. | 15:47 |
| Smari | hahahaha | 15:48 |
| fenn | so much for all this emergency preparedness bullshit | 15:48 |
| kanzure | Matt sent me an email | 15:49 |
| kanzure | From: Don Artieschoufsky [mailto:don.artie@me.utexas.edu] | 15:49 |
| kanzure | Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2009 3:45 PM | 15:49 |
| kanzure | To: ETC Building All Occupants | 15:49 |
| kanzure | Subject: False Alarm - Intruder in building | 15:49 |
| kanzure | Importance: High | 15:49 |
| kanzure | I've been informed that the suspect was a student with a toy gun that was part of a project in the building. | 15:49 |
| Smari | Hahaha | 15:49 |
| fenn | gosh i'm glad it wasn't me | 15:49 |
| * fenn hides toy gun | 15:49 | |
| Smari | How does having an armed man in a University classify as an emergency? | 15:50 |
| bkero | Depends on if they're supposed to be armed, and if the University allows such things. | 15:50 |
| bkero | We have armed state troopers on campus. | 15:51 |
| Smari | hm | 15:51 |
| kanzure | that's a common class project, btw | 15:51 |
| Smari | oh? | 15:52 |
| Smari | FabRifle? | 15:52 |
| Smari | you Texans are so crazy. | 15:59 |
| -!- genehacker2 [n=noko@cpe-67-9-157-136.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #hplusroadmap | 15:59 | |
| genehacker2 | KANZURE THEY'RE COMING FOR YOU, THEY FOUND OUT ABOUT DIYBIO, ok not really I'll explain | 15:59 |
| genehacker2 | why there's a swat team | 15:59 |
| Smari | How many Texans are there here anyway? Sheesh. | 16:00 |
| genehacker2 | there's a girl with a bow and arrow and a gun(possibly paintball gun for rev engineering project) | 16:00 |
| genehacker2 | definately in case | 16:00 |
| genehacker2 | does not appear to be threat | 16:00 |
| genehacker2 | is there really a swat team? | 16:00 |
| genehacker2 | kanzure? | 16:01 |
| -!- genehacker [i=genehack@w-central-233-27.public.utexas.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] | 16:01 | |
| genehacker2 | I overheard"apparently there's a swat team coming though" | 16:02 |
| genehacker2 | you guys still there? | 16:05 |
| Smari | you just made it hilarious to say nothing. | 16:07 |
| genehacker2 | did you say candlejack, you aren't supposed to sa | 16:09 |
| fenn | sorry was in a meeting | 16:21 |
| fenn | yes there was a swat team, turned out to be an engineering student with a toy gun | 16:21 |
| kanzure | this poor student is now marked for life for having made a gun that will forever be known as a toy. | 16:21 |
| Smari | only a matter of time until said student goes on a real murderous rampage. | 16:23 |
| genehacker2 | heh | 16:24 |
| genehacker2 | for reverse engineering no doubt | 16:24 |
| genehacker2 | airsoft guns are some of the best things to reverse engineer because they have internal mechanical parts | 16:25 |
| fenn | complicated and fidgety = best thing to reverse engineer? | 16:25 |
| Smari | easy to see how they work = best thing to reverse engineer. | 16:26 |
| genehacker2 | well they're mechanical | 16:28 |
| genehacker2 | probably not the best | 16:28 |
| genehacker2 | why did she have a bow and arrow though? | 16:30 |
| Smari | they're fun. | 16:31 |
| Smari | reminds me, I should pick up my archery gear on saturday. | 16:31 |
| genehacker2 | hmmm... | 16:33 |
| genehacker2 | Now I wonder if you could do ballistics calculations with a bow and arrow | 16:34 |
| genehacker2 | combine that with VR goggles to superimpose a dot where the arrow will land | 16:34 |
| -!- samrose [n=samrose@c-24-11-214-181.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] | 16:53 | |
| CIA-44 | Tangiblebit: spm * r9a576c719324 /tangiblebit.com/ (4 files in 3 dirs): More XMLRPC and Javascript glue. | 17:29 |
| CIA-44 | Tangiblebit: spm * reb6b2dcd2deb /tangiblebit.com/doc/DTD/site.dtd: Added <site> DTD. | 17:29 |
| -!- Smari [n=spm@88.149.89.58] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] | 17:37 | |
| kanzure | Apollo 11 landing transcript http://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a11/a11.landing.html | 17:51 |
| kanzure | http://science.slashdot.org/story/09/07/21/0142234/How-They-Built-the-Software-of-Apollo-11?art_pos=22 | 17:58 |
| fenn | http://gizmodo.com/378261/cheap-homemade-mri-does-a-better-job-imaging-lungs-than-the-real-thing | 18:17 |
| fenn | looks fairly straightforward | 18:17 |
| fenn | how do you manage to spend $100k on it i wonder | 18:17 |
| kanzure | http://adl.serveftp.org/lab/screenshots/ | 18:18 |
| kanzure | fenn: by going to harvard | 18:18 |
| kanzure | your sense of economics gets all skewed when it costs a million dollars to have an apartment 10 floors up | 18:19 |
| CIA-44 | skdb: kanzure * r2a3b618f28ad /pymates/ (models/peg.yaml pymates.py): pymates works. run demo and then mate_parts to see it in action. | 18:20 |
| fenn | doesn't helium dissolve in the blood? so you could use this for other imaging | 18:20 |
| kanzure | had to randomly play around with the peg's matrix to figure out the right numbers. | 18:20 |
| kanzure | (turns out the j has to be 1,1,1 and you were right about i and k) | 18:21 |
| fenn | 1,1,1? | 18:22 |
| fenn | not 0,1,0? | 18:22 |
| kanzure | with 0,1,0 it gives me a "singular matrix" error | 18:23 |
| kanzure | in particular when I try to find the inverse of the 4x4 | 18:23 |
| kanzure | oh I guess if I comment out that line it works fine though | 18:23 |
| fenn | squids again http://www.spectrum.ieee.org/biomedical/imaging/a-weaker-cheaper-mri | 18:25 |
| kanzure | didn't I find some random article about a ridiculously cheap portable MRI system? | 18:26 |
| kanzure | by ridiculously I mean <$10k | 18:26 |
| fenn | "Atomic magnetometers are convenient and cheap to operate because they do not require cryogenics and their electronics can be made compact and portable for multi-channel imaging. Their high sensitivity is comparable to [SQUIDs]" | 18:29 |
| kanzure | can you make a magnetometer with an AFM that just bends in response to a magnetic field? | 18:29 |
| kanzure | due to some bead at the tip of the cantilever? | 18:29 |
| kanzure | guess it would only work with many cantilevers and little or no movement | 18:30 |
| fenn | why many? | 18:30 |
| kanzure | are you going to sit still while the AFM tip scans over your body | 18:30 |
| fenn | http://www.nist.gov/public_affairs/releases/magnetometer.html | 18:31 |
| kanzure | at the dashing rate of 3 mm per hour :p | 18:31 |
| fenn | i think you're missing the point | 18:31 |
| fenn | The amount of laser light absorbed by the atoms varies predictably with the magnetic field, providing a reference scale for measuring the field. | 18:32 |
| fenn | i guess rubidium is special in that regard | 18:32 |
| kanzure | rubidium and cesium are popular for atom holography | 18:42 |
| kanzure | http://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Aheybryan.org+MRI&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.debian:en-US:unofficial&client=iceweasel-a | 18:51 |
| kanzure | query: site:heybryan.org MRI | 18:51 |
| kanzure | why do MRI rooms have vents? | 18:53 |
| xp_prg | kanzure did you ever check out the africa medical equipment stuff? | 18:54 |
| kanzure | http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=230037&cid=18662185 | 18:54 |
| xp_prg | some of it is handcranked and stuff | 18:54 |
| kanzure | http://heybryan.org/absence/SonyVAIO_more_bookmarks_June23rd02007.htm | 18:54 |
| QuantumG | MRIs are expensive because of two things: 1) the consumers don't demand lower prices, and there's not too many of them anyway; 2) government regulation keeps out new competitors | 18:55 |
| kanzure | or because you suck and don't know how to make something better | 18:56 |
| xp_prg | kanzure hello do you see my question? | 18:56 |
| kanzure | it doesn't make any sense | 18:57 |
| kanzure | africa is a continent | 18:57 |
| genehacker2 | why do they have vents? | 18:58 |
| genehacker2 | to emergency purge cryogases? | 18:58 |
| xp_prg | Africa is a third world country and needs to save money so medical equipment is cheaper | 18:58 |
| kanzure | so what? | 18:58 |
| xp_prg | so they may have a cheaper mri | 18:58 |
| kanzure | may? | 18:58 |
| kanzure | how do you know whether or not they do | 18:59 |
| kanzure | are you just bullshitting me | 18:59 |
| bkero | Build your own? | 18:59 |
| genehacker2 | in the event of a leak? | 18:59 |
| kanzure | bkero: what are you asking? | 19:00 |
| genehacker2 | btw superconductors aren't cheap | 19:00 |
| xp_prg | kanzure your crazy to talk to | 19:00 |
| kanzure | xp_prg: you're the one who's making shit up | 19:00 |
| bkero | kanzure: Build your own MRI? | 19:00 |
| kanzure | bkero: yeah :) | 19:00 |
| genehacker2 | why? | 19:00 |
| kanzure | bkero: IIRC, there was a cheap way to do it | 19:00 |
| QuantumG | got a design for an MRI? | 19:01 |
| kanzure | hm, somewhere | 19:01 |
| kanzure | can you give me time to dig around? | 19:01 |
| bkero | When the query is about building it yourself, there need not be a 'why'. | 19:01 |
| genehacker2 | oh | 19:01 |
| genehacker2 | ok | 19:01 |
| genehacker2 | btw got a physics problem | 19:01 |
| bkero | Also, because MRI equipment is expensive/unattainable. | 19:02 |
| kanzure | hahah an "open" MRI http://www.meticulouspixel.com/DMI_0.9.7/patient.htm | 19:02 |
| genehacker2 | so I take a loop of wire and enclose most of the loop in a superconducting cylinder | 19:02 |
| genehacker2 | I put a current in this loop of wire | 19:02 |
| bkero | There's MRI viewing software | 19:02 |
| genehacker2 | how is this not a magnetic monopole? | 19:02 |
| genehacker2 | because superconductors have magnetic shielding properties you end up witn something that looks like a monopole | 19:03 |
| genehacker2 | but magnetic monopoles can't exist | 19:04 |
| bkero | http://gizmodo.com/378261/cheap-homemade-mri-does-a-better-job-imaging-lungs-than-the-real-thing | 19:05 |
| kanzure | "cheap" | 19:05 |
| kanzure | how is that cheap | 19:05 |
| xp_prg | its only 100k | 19:06 |
| genehacker2 | $20 is cheap | 19:06 |
| kanzure | $100k is expensive. | 19:07 |
| bkero | 'To get started in home-built MRI, you'll want to make a "proton precession magnetometer." | 19:07 |
| bkero | ' | 19:07 |
| genehacker2 | anything more than $20 is considered expensive | 19:07 |
| genehacker2 | this fact is easily demonstrated by infomercial products costing less than $20 | 19:07 |
| bkero | genehacker2: It costs more than that for me to get a good PSU, gelbox, and electrodes, but I think doing my own electrophoresis is cheap. | 19:07 |
| bkero | Oh yea, and agar agar | 19:08 |
| xp_prg | bkero wow you do your own electrophloresis? | 19:08 |
| bkero | Haven't done a successful run yet, but yea. | 19:08 |
| genehacker2 | anyone got an answer to my monopole question | 19:08 |
| QuantumG | if you could actually do anything interesting with an MRI it might be worth the cost | 19:08 |
| kanzure | neurofeedback | 19:09 |
| bkero | I think even if you built the MRI, getting someone to actually use it would be hilariously difficult. | 19:09 |
| kanzure | use a rat | 19:09 |
| bkero | Yea | 19:09 |
| genehacker2 | or use it for NMR | 19:09 |
| genehacker2 | heh reminds me of the NMR built into a shack in A is for Anything | 19:10 |
| xp_prg | bkero my diybio group has | 19:10 |
| bkero | Will an MRI actually tell you/let you affect the things you want for NMR? | 19:10 |
| xp_prg | Tito has an open gel electrophloresis box | 19:10 |
| kanzure | xp_prg: how is it that you've been into this for a year and still haven't learned anything | 19:10 |
| bkero | There are a lot of plans out there. | 19:10 |
| kanzure | xp_prg: tito does not have an open source gel box | 19:10 |
| kanzure | xp_prg: he's making a business around it and has no CAD files | 19:10 |
| xp_prg | yes he does | 19:10 |
| kanzure | no, meredith told me so :) | 19:10 |
| kanzure | she knows what she's doing | 19:10 |
| xp_prg | he said on my video all the hardware and specs would be open | 19:11 |
| bkero | CAD files? I've been using Fred Meyer tupperware | 19:11 |
| kanzure | bull fucking shit, xp_prg | 19:11 |
| kanzure | he's been saying that for months | 19:11 |
| kanzure | it takes 1 minute to upload the files | 19:11 |
| xp_prg | wow so he is lying? | 19:11 |
| kanzure | it seems so | 19:11 |
| xp_prg | meredith is way cool to me | 19:12 |
| bkero | My setup consists of tupperware, a colored pencil holder box, agar agar from the local asian market, some electrodes from a shitty $3 harbor freight multimeter, and an old AT PSU I had sitting around. | 19:13 |
| kanzure | wait, doesn't tupperware melt when you apply a voltage to to it? | 19:14 |
| * xp_prg hugs bkero | 19:14 | |
| bkero | Hasn't yet | 19:14 |
| bkero | Hasn't even gotten hot or discolored. | 19:14 |
| genehacker2 | tupperware melt? | 19:14 |
| kanzure | doesn't it? | 19:15 |
| genehacker2 | how kanzure? | 19:15 |
| kanzure | maybe I'm just pulling stuff out of my ass | 19:15 |
| kanzure | sorry | 19:15 |
| genehacker2 | you aren't putting 180 megamps through a gel box now are you? | 19:15 |
| bkero | From an AT PSU? | 19:15 |
| bkero | This damn PSU won't even power the radiator fans that came from my car. | 19:16 |
| genehacker2 | bkero 180 megaamps is insane | 19:16 |
| bkero | Yea | 19:17 |
| bkero | This thing won't even put out 120 amps | 19:17 |
| bkero | er, 120 watts | 19:17 |
| bkero | I've been eyeing an electrophoresis power supply from the surplus store on campus. | 19:17 |
| bkero | 27kv, $35 | 19:17 |
| kanzure | ah, we just have surplus auctions | 19:17 |
| kanzure | no surplus store | 19:17 |
| bkero | Yea, the surplus store does auctions and sells things | 19:18 |
| genehacker2 | they have equipment on the loading docks that isn't watched... | 19:18 |
| bkero | The things they can't sell, they list on labx. | 19:18 |
| bkero | I've got way too many projects, I want to finish my centrifuge before the gelbox. | 19:19 |
| genehacker2 | labx? | 19:19 |
| bkero | labx is a web site that sells used lab equipment | 19:19 |
| kanzure | bkero: you're a prime target for skdb. | 19:19 |
| bkero | http://www.labx.com/ | 19:19 |
| bkero | Are you going to have tupperware as part of your inventory? :) | 19:20 |
| kanzure | yes | 19:20 |
| bkero | Hehe | 19:20 |
| kanzure | http://osteele.com/projects/pywordnet/examples.html | 19:21 |
| bkero | http://www.labx.com/v2/adsearch/detail3.cfm?adnumb=393433 | 19:21 |
| genehacker2 | bkero do you have a food processor? | 19:22 |
| bkero | genehacker2: Of sorts | 19:22 |
| bkero | Why? | 19:22 |
| genehacker2 | you can make it into a centrifuge | 19:22 |
| bkero | I already have that part replicated, I just need to make the tube holder. | 19:22 |
| bkero | Also, food processor motor won't spin fast enough. | 19:23 |
| kanzure | one thing on my todo list is a spin coater | 19:23 |
| genehacker2 | can be made using food processor | 19:23 |
| genehacker2 | you sure bkero? | 19:23 |
| bkero | It might be able to | 19:24 |
| bkero | I used a hobbyist motor. | 19:24 |
| bkero | and already have the top portion keyed onto the motor shaft. | 19:24 |
| bkero | I think I'm going to have to fiberglass the tube holders on to some sort of conical shape. | 19:24 |
| genehacker2 | PVC pipe is what this one used | 19:25 |
| bkero | Nice | 19:26 |
| bkero | Pics? | 19:26 |
| genehacker2 | I'm trying to find it | 19:26 |
| kanzure | yaml for bibliographies? http://pypi.python.org/pypi/pybtex/20090402 | 19:27 |
| genehacker2 | http://www.scifair.org/kid-science-project-molbio.html | 19:27 |
| genehacker2 | I don't think you need to pay for that to figure out how to make it | 19:28 |
| kanzure | huh wonder why python-bibtex (in debian) isn't on pypi | 19:28 |
| ybit | heyo | 19:29 |
| ybit | thanks for mentioning legocad kanzure | 19:29 |
| ybit | i saw that pyobjects is usable via txt to my phone while @ work, let's check it out... | 19:29 |
| genehacker2 | anyway bkero what do you intend to centrifuge? | 19:30 |
| genehacker2 | how much acceleration does it need to undergo? | 19:30 |
| bkero | Enrich uranium :) | 19:31 |
| genehacker2 | ok then | 19:32 |
| genehacker2 | you got a precision machine shop? | 19:32 |
| bkero | Yes | 19:32 |
| genehacker2 | ok | 19:32 |
| genehacker2 | you need a lot of centrifuges | 19:33 |
| genehacker2 | like a lot | 19:33 |
| bkero | Hobby motors, keys, and keyed plates are a total of about $15 each. | 19:34 |
| bkero | I'm not sure if I'm going to need a dampened start or not so I don't crack the tubes. | 19:35 |
| genehacker2 | you should consider making a laser based uranium enricher | 19:35 |
| bkero | How might that work? | 19:36 |
| genehacker2 | check wikipedia | 19:36 |
| genehacker2 | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enriched_uranium | 19:36 |
| bkero | Also, I'm not sure the legality of > 30mW lasers here | 19:36 |
| genehacker2 | definately legal | 19:36 |
| bkero | Maybe the limit is application specific | 19:36 |
| bkero | Ah, cool | 19:36 |
| bkero | I've seen 1w lasers, but I remembered that the crystals were horrendously expensive. | 19:37 |
| genehacker2 | you can get very powerful CO2 lasers for not crazy | 19:38 |
| genehacker2 | like 10 Watts and more | 19:39 |
| bkero | Wow | 19:39 |
| genehacker2 | but laser based isotope enrichment is hard | 19:40 |
| genehacker2 | anyway you don't need to enrich uranium now do you? | 19:43 |
| kanzure | aha. http://pybtex.sourceforge.net/ | 19:44 |
| kanzure | much better | 19:44 |
| bkero | No | 19:45 |
| bkero | But I do want a centrifuge :) | 19:45 |
| drazak | got to play with a confocal microscope today | 19:47 |
| drazak | was pretty cool | 19:47 |
| drazak | took pictures of some HUVECs and MSCs with them | 19:47 |
| kanzure | neat, pybtex/examples/foo.yaml | 19:48 |
| kanzure | bzr branch lp:pybtex | 19:48 |
| genehacker2 | I used an SEM last week | 19:50 |
| genehacker2 | I looked at metal | 19:51 |
| kanzure | so there doesn't seem to be any actual python classes for bibtex | 19:53 |
| kanzure | http://pybtex.sourceforge.net/manual.html | 19:57 |
| kanzure | bleh | 19:57 |
| genehacker2 | kanzure you got a copy of matweb right? | 19:58 |
| kanzure | yes | 19:59 |
| genehacker2 | what's the poisson's ratio of RTV silicone? | 19:59 |
| kanzure | why don't you check yourself | 20:00 |
| kanzure | http://matweb.com/ | 20:00 |
| genehacker2 | ok | 20:00 |
| genehacker2 | the poisson's ratio isn't there | 20:00 |
| kanzure | try the engineering library | 20:00 |
| genehacker2 | ok | 20:00 |
| kanzure | holy crap the yaml output sucks | 20:00 |
| kanzure | it's because of all this unicode encoding | 20:07 |
| bkero | It's free chicken burrito day at Chipotle. :) | 20:07 |
| kanzure | fenn: http://adl.serveftp.org/lab/notes-pybtex | 20:14 |
| kanzure | fear the terribleness | 20:15 |
| genehacker2 | IT IS? | 20:18 |
| genehacker2 | meh | 20:19 |
| fenn | i thought yaml handled unicore smarter than that | 20:19 |
| genehacker2 | I think I'll derive equations for a rolamite bearing instead of getting a free burrito | 20:19 |
| kanzure | it's disgusting | 20:20 |
| ybit | fenn: OSE = openstep? | 20:45 |
| ybit | ah http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_System_Environment_Reference_Model | 20:46 |
| fenn | no | 20:46 |
| fenn | ybit: http://openfarmtech.org/ | 20:47 |
| kanzure | mycone = OCC.BRepPrimAPI.BRepPrimAPI_MakeCone(1.,2.,3.) | 20:52 |
| kanzure | mycone.Shape(). hm. | 20:52 |
| kanzure | what am I doing | 21:07 |
| kanzure | I was writing something, somewhere | 21:07 |
| kanzure | and now I'm not | 21:07 |
| kanzure | so. um. what am I doing? | 21:30 |
| genehacker2 | you're telling me how to use that cad thing | 21:35 |
| kanzure | what cad thing? | 21:37 |
| kanzure | did you install it yet? | 21:37 |
| genehacker2 | python OCC | 21:38 |
| genehacker2 | no | 21:38 |
| kanzure | are you on ubuntu? | 21:38 |
| genehacker2 | no | 21:38 |
| genehacker2 | can switch | 21:38 |
| kanzure | ok look at the bottom of this page | 21:38 |
| kanzure | oh | 21:38 |
| kanzure | http://adl.serveftp.org/dokuwiki/pythonocc | 21:38 |
| kanzure | well either way | 21:38 |
| kanzure | there's the instructions | 21:38 |
| genehacker2 | can pythonOCC export to .stl? | 21:40 |
| kanzure | yes | 21:40 |
| genehacker2 | ok cool | 21:40 |
| genehacker2 | so how do I plot a curve in it from points? | 21:40 |
| kanzure | probably through NURBS | 21:41 |
| genehacker2 | and that is? | 21:42 |
| genehacker2 | curve through 2d points that I extrude down to sketch | 21:42 |
| kanzure | what? down to a sketch? what does that mean | 21:43 |
| kanzure | maybe this is what you want? http://adl.serveftp.org/lab/opencascade/doc/ReferenceDocumentation/ModelingAlgorithms/html/classGeom2dGcc__CurveTool.html | 21:43 |
| genehacker2 | I extrude the shape formed by the curve to make a part | 21:43 |
| kanzure | there's also this one | 21:44 |
| kanzure | http://adl.serveftp.org/lab/opencascade/doc/ReferenceDocumentation/ModelingAlgorithms/html/classShapeUpgrade__ConvertCurve2dToBezier.html | 21:44 |
| kanzure | trying to find the 2D curve class in the docs somewhere | 21:44 |
| genehacker2 | simply put, I need to make a gear | 21:45 |
| kanzure | ok line 442 in pythonOCC/samples/Level1/Geometry | 21:48 |
| kanzure | er, sorry | 21:48 |
| kanzure | ok line 442 in pythonOCC/samples/Level1/Geometry/geometry_demos.py | 21:48 |
| genehacker2 | ??? | 21:56 |
| kanzure | when you install pythonOCC, look in that folder at that file | 21:59 |
| kanzure | and at line 442 to see how to do it | 21:59 |
| genehacker2 | ok | 21:59 |
| -!- wrldpc2 [n=benny@pool-96-237-4-79.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #hplusroadmap | 22:16 | |
| genehacker2 | this can't be right | 22:57 |
| kanzure | ? | 22:58 |
| genehacker2 | so apparently a silicone band 4.5 millimeters in diameter and 6 mm thick should fit stretch to 20 millimeters in diameter and 3 millimeters thick | 23:01 |
| genehacker2 | which doesn't seem right | 23:01 |
| genehacker2 | though silicone has an elongation% at yield of 620% | 23:02 |
| genehacker2 | that seems crazy | 23:04 |
| genehacker2 | for what I want to do at least | 23:04 |
| genehacker2 | oh that's why | 23:20 |
| genehacker2 | stress was over the yield point for those values | 23:20 |
| CIA-44 | skdb: kanzure * ra5f5ec6b816f /pymates/ (4 files in 2 dirs): trying to get things to work again | 23:21 |
| wrldpc2 | v00tmas | 23:47 |
Generated by irclog2html.py 2.15.0.dev0 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!
