| --- Day changed Thu Jul 23 2009 | ||
| ybit | fenn, kanzure: in your copy of pythonOCC, in line 6 of pythonOCC/src/gp.py ..do you have "import _gp"? | 01:34 |
|---|---|---|
| ybit | because when trying to run pymates.py: ImportError: No module named _gp | 01:35 |
| ybit | a File "/home/heath/builds/pythonOCC-wo0.2/src/OCC/gp.py", line 6, in <module> | 01:35 |
| ybit | import _gp | 01:35 |
| ybit | ImportError: No module named _gp | 01:35 |
| kanzure | Tim Schmidt might be worth stalking. He used to be on the multimachine mailing list, and is now on the reprap-michigan mailing list, and is also some sort of nix hacker who complained about fstab-rsync. | 02:52 |
| kanzure | timschmidt@gmail.com | 02:52 |
| kanzure | ybit: I had to comment out that line. | 02:53 |
| kanzure | ybit: actually, I didn't comment out pythonOCC/src/gp.py because I had gp.py somewhere else (it was installed to my pythonpath) | 02:53 |
| kanzure | ybit: one disparity between what you've done and how fenn and I have done it is that fenn and I both used scons to get things working | 02:55 |
| kanzure | ybit: and at the end of our installations, we did some links like "sudo ln -s /usr/share/pyshared/OCC /usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/OCC" - check http://adl.serveftp.org/dokuwiki/pythonocc | 02:56 |
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| genehacker2 | I think he's part of the core reprap group kanzure | 03:16 |
| maradydd | do gitwiki/djangit support templates the way mediawiki does? | 04:34 |
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| kanzure | maradydd: I don't know. django has its own custom templating language. | 07:06 |
| kanzure | wtf http://lesswrong.com/lw/4g/eliezer_yudkowsky_facts/ | 07:09 |
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| kanzure | hello SmoKeyCastle | 07:13 |
| SmoKeyCastle | hey | 07:13 |
| kanzure | what's up? | 07:14 |
| SmoKeyCastle | not much. | 07:14 |
| kanzure | what brings you around these parts? :) | 07:15 |
| SmoKeyCastle | Not much. stalking mainly. | 07:16 |
| kanzure | yeah we do that frequently in here | 07:16 |
| kanzure | anyone in particular I can help you stalk? | 07:16 |
| SmoKeyCastle | haha | 07:16 |
| SmoKeyCastle | I have been having a look at your website | 07:17 |
| SmoKeyCastle | pretty interesting | 07:17 |
| kanzure | it will consume your soul | 07:17 |
| kanzure | unless you're careful. | 07:17 |
| SmoKeyCastle | rTMS how much of an effect does that have? | 07:18 |
| kanzure | it depends on the coil geometry and the 'strength' of the magnetic field | 07:18 |
| kanzure | there was an article in the new york times once about it. the journalist totally lost his ability to draw kittens, for instance. | 07:18 |
| kanzure | (for the duration of the stimulation) | 07:19 |
| SmoKeyCastle | so the theory goes that there is a certain frequency that our brains run at peak performance on and this magnetic coil cap is able to enforce that? sounds like it can have some side effects though. | 07:20 |
| kanzure | no, that's not the theory at all | 07:20 |
| SmoKeyCastle | oh ok I must have misread | 07:20 |
| kanzure | think of it as if it's MRI except it's punching your neurons | 07:20 |
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| kanzure | discworld? | 07:28 |
| kanzure | the usual channels: ##electronics, #math, #not-math, #physics, #not-physics, #biology, ##chemistry, ##neuroscience, #space, #robotics | 07:34 |
| kanzure | other channels: #diybio, #emc, #emc-devel, #cam, ##SL4, #mireprap, anything else? | 07:35 |
| kanzure | oh I guess there's #engineering but they don't talk about engineering in there | 07:35 |
| SmoKeyCastle | makes sense | 07:35 |
| kanzure | of course I'm not mentioning all of the software channels since that's obvious | 07:35 |
| kanzure | there's also #madscientists but nobody goes there anymore | 07:36 |
| CIA-44 | skdb: kanzure * r3ced699e2801 /pymates/tests.py: using a cone instead of a cylindrical peg in the unit test | 07:51 |
| fenn | terry pratchett rubs me the wrong way | 07:53 |
| fenn | all his stuff is supposed to be funny but it just ends up as annoying | 07:54 |
| kanzure | someone in #yaml claimed to have worked on the discworld mud | 07:54 |
| kanzure | MUD | 07:54 |
| fenn | i guess that explains the RPG-ish tutorial | 07:55 |
| kanzure | nah all (good) programmers are obsessed with RPGs | 07:55 |
| fenn | "Eliezer Yudkowsky has no need for induction or deduction. He has perfected the undiluted master art of duction." | 07:57 |
| fenn | i KNEW it!! | 07:57 |
| kanzure | what more evidence of a cult do you need | 07:57 |
| fenn | quack quack quack | 07:57 |
| kanzure | s/duction/ducktion/ | 07:58 |
| fenn | "Eliezer Yudkowsky thought he was wrong one time, but he was mistaken." | 08:02 |
| fenn | "An AI programmed to maximize utility will tile the Universe with tiny copies of Eliezer Yudkowksy." | 08:02 |
| SmoKeyCastle | lol | 08:02 |
| fenn | that one hurts | 08:02 |
| fenn | "Eliezer Yudkowsky's map is more accurate than the territory." | 08:05 |
| drazak | ergh | 08:37 |
| drazak | wtf is with this cell line | 08:37 |
| drazak | they've died on us twice | 08:38 |
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| CIA-44 | skdb: * rce6891e8f431 /codingstyle.txt: more | 09:38 |
| CIA-44 | skdb: kanzure * re58899bf4df2 /pymates/tests.py: added rotation to the unit test. bus commit. | 09:40 |
| CIA-44 | skdb: kanzure * r0786d0ee583c /pymates/tests.py: comments | 09:40 |
| CIA-44 | skdb: kanzure * r121f9ce9e779 /pymates/pymates.py: comments, threw in show_interface_points (where did it go?) | 09:40 |
| CIA-44 | skdb: kanzure * r5b9ee64fb396 /pymates/pymates.py: fixed- show_interface_points never really did vanish | 09:40 |
| CIA-44 | skdb: kanzure * r6702b3f2c621 /codingstyle.txt: Merge branch 'master' of ssh://bryan@adl.serveftp.org/var/www/skdb | 09:40 |
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| timschmidt_ | hey. internet went wonky for a minute | 09:54 |
| kanzure | hey timschmidt_ | 09:54 |
| kanzure | so, you mentioned an interest in automated manufacturing and bootstrapping | 09:55 |
| kanzure | are you familiar with gingery? | 09:55 |
| timschmidt_ | yes | 09:55 |
| kanzure | are you familiar with apt-get? | 09:55 |
| timschmidt_ | of course | 09:55 |
| kanzure | well then | 09:55 |
| kanzure | you're cought up | 09:55 |
| kanzure | the git repo is in the /topic | 09:55 |
| kanzure | have fun | 09:55 |
| fenn | yarr | 09:56 |
| timschmidt_ | So I ask for a widget and said software tells me what to make, in what order, so that by the end I have what I need to make a widget? | 09:56 |
| fenn | didnt we have some sort of 'overview of skdb' page (before you typed all over it at least) | 09:56 |
| kanzure | timschmidt_: yes | 09:56 |
| timschmidt_ | excellent | 09:56 |
| timschmidt_ | I've wished for said software in the past. Thank you for working on it. | 09:57 |
| fenn | timschmidt_: it's amazing how hard it is to explain that concept to some people | 09:57 |
| timschmidt_ | I tried to get Zach to build something similar into thingiverse... I think it looked too hard for him to be interested though | 09:58 |
| kanzure | timschmidt_: thingiverse sucks. sorry. | 09:58 |
| kanzure | these guys need to learn about packaging standards | 09:58 |
| kanzure | and what a dependency is, for that matter | 09:58 |
| kanzure | one subproject is "djangit", which might be a suitable frontend | 09:59 |
| timschmidt_ | meh. It's one spot on a continuum. Anything that makes all of this easier. Agreed about the dependencies though. | 09:59 |
| kanzure | you should check out the repository asap :) | 10:00 |
| fenn | i ought to caution that the software doesn't actually do anything yet | 10:00 |
| timschmidt_ | heh | 10:01 |
| timschmidt_ | ok | 10:01 |
| timschmidt_ | One of the projects I've been working on is a wrench-buildable repstrap... you guys may be interested. Allow you to skip a few dependencies. | 10:03 |
| timschmidt_ | In other words, you go to the hardware store, buy some common materials, assemble them at home with a wrench (and perhaps some cutting with a hacksaw), and you've got a CNC machine. No complex tools necessary. | 10:04 |
| kanzure | yes, skipping dependencies is always nice | 10:07 |
| kanzure | I think that's called a cutset in graph theory | 10:07 |
| fenn | timschmidt_: what about cast concrete designs? | 10:10 |
| kanzure | ok fenn and I were wondering about how to do the packages | 10:10 |
| kanzure | each package could potentially contain either a CAD file or a python script to generate the parametric CAD file | 10:10 |
| kanzure | but also metadata describing what the package contains (for an equivalent to "apt-cache search" and "apt-cache show" I guess) | 10:11 |
| kanzure | (also describing dependencies and related information) | 10:11 |
| timschmidt_ | fenn: one of the other projects I'm involved with (the multimachine) has done some research into cast concrete designs... but AFAIK, none of our members has built one. | 10:11 |
| timschmidt_ | about packaging: CAD files are only part of the problem. The multimachine, for instance, uses already-cast parts (engine blocks) for most of it's construction, and requires few tools, but a _very_ skilled machinist to assemble. CAD files are important, but instructions for humans 'in the loop' should also be top-level objects. | 10:18 |
| kanzure | automatically generated instructions are planned | 10:20 |
| fenn | one of the goals is to define an abstract language which could be translated to either english human-readable instructions or robot control code (gcode for example) | 10:20 |
| kanzure | gcode->english is nearly impossible, but some-other-format->gcode might be | 10:20 |
| timschmidt_ | right | 10:21 |
| Smari | gcode is messed up. | 10:25 |
| kanzure | fenn: re: pcr-example, I guess the question to ask (so that we can figure out the answer to your packaging question) is where exactly in the toolchain different sequences are generated by skdb. | 10:26 |
| kanzure | does anyone have ideas for how to do a unit test that must test for correct rotation? what should I check? | 10:27 |
| CIA-44 | skdb: kanzure * ra7ecf6ffabc6 /pcr-example: added to pcr-example | 10:41 |
| fenn | add some points to the object which you can get coordinates for and check their coordinates | 10:46 |
| kanzure | how do you add points to an object itself? | 10:46 |
| kanzure | you mean to a TopoDS_Shape? | 10:47 |
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| kanzure | import OCC.SGEOM #not found. How do you get pythonOCC/src/SWIG_sr..darwin/SGEOM.i to compile? | 10:52 |
| fenn | isnt there some occ thing that combines multiple TopoDS_Shapes? | 10:53 |
| fenn | SGEOM is some other thing | 10:53 |
| fenn | it's actually called GEOM | 10:53 |
| fenn | not included with OCC | 10:53 |
| kanzure | the parametric tests seem to require it | 10:54 |
| fenn | "the salome GEOM module" | 10:54 |
| fenn | is that really necessary just for parametric shapes? | 10:54 |
| fenn | http://sourceforge.net/projects/salomegeometry/ | 10:55 |
| fenn | looks exactly like OCC to me http://www.salome-platform.org/home/presentation/geom/ | 10:57 |
| kanzure | well at least OCC.GEOMImpl is required | 10:57 |
| kanzure | sgeom/src/GEOMImpl/ hm. | 10:58 |
| fenn | are you trying to get PAF working? | 10:59 |
| kanzure | yes | 11:00 |
| fenn | from OCC.SGEOM import GEOM_Solver,GEOM_Parameter | 11:01 |
| kanzure | what about it? | 11:01 |
| fenn | well, that's what it needs from salome | 11:01 |
| kanzure | what is "it"? | 11:02 |
| fenn | PAF | 11:02 |
| kanzure | no, OCC.PAF.Context requires some other things as well | 11:02 |
| kanzure | GEOMImpl, for instance | 11:02 |
| fenn | anyway those functions seems to pull in all the rest of the geometry module | 11:02 |
| kanzure | for now I'm still working on figuring out how to test rotation | 11:05 |
| kanzure | I think if I translate and rotate a point, the point's location would be updated (?) | 11:05 |
| fenn | rotating a point doesnt do much | 11:06 |
| kanzure | if you translate it first, it does do something | 11:06 |
| kanzure | just like if you translate and rotate an object | 11:06 |
| fenn | ok but what does that prove | 11:06 |
| kanzure | that rotation works? | 11:06 |
| fenn | but doesnt your data format specify rotation about the origin (i.e. no translation first) | 11:07 |
| kanzure | are we talking about different things? | 11:08 |
| kanzure | I just want a way to check if a point on the object is properly rotated | 11:08 |
| fenn | carry on | 11:09 |
| kanzure | so I need to figure out how to access a point on the object | 11:09 |
| kanzure | preferably not the interface-point | 11:09 |
| fenn | right | 11:10 |
| kanzure | point.Transform(OCC.gp.gp_Trsf()) seems to do the trick. but it just applies a transform. maybe I'll just set it to a certain point on the object. | 11:10 |
| fenn | what is your "object"'s type? | 11:11 |
| kanzure | in the unit test, one of the objects is a cone | 11:11 |
| fenn | TopoDS_Shape? | 11:11 |
| kanzure | yes | 11:11 |
| fenn | how do you attach points to that? | 11:11 |
| fenn | i dont see any OCC point object in the unit test | 11:14 |
| fenn | oops nm, old version | 11:14 |
| fenn | still there's no points attached to the cone | 11:15 |
| kanzure | right | 11:15 |
| kanzure | I'm looking up how to do this | 11:15 |
| kanzure | oh you have to use TopExp_Explorer | 11:16 |
| fenn | how do i say 'the default to_yaml'? | 11:16 |
| kanzure | does the class inherit from something that has a to_yaml() ? | 11:16 |
| fenn | i want to delete the to_yaml if there's no yaml_repr | 11:16 |
| fenn | but i cant really do that inside the to_yaml function | 11:17 |
| kanzure | what is the context | 11:17 |
| fenn | so instead i was thinking something like def to_yaml(): if not yaml_repr: return default_to_yaml | 11:17 |
| kanzure | does hasattr() return True for methods? | 11:18 |
| fenn | yes | 11:18 |
| kanzure | does that solve your problem? | 11:18 |
| fenn | no | 11:18 |
| fenn | look at to_yaml in FennObject | 11:18 |
| fenn | right now it returns __repr__ if there's no yaml_repr, but that's wrong | 11:19 |
| kanzure | how about yaml.YAMLObject.to_yaml() | 11:19 |
| kanzure | you know what, it probably does some recursion bullshit | 11:21 |
| kanzure | because yaml.YAMLObject.to_yaml() supposedly tests for the existence of to_yaml() already in your class right? | 11:21 |
| fenn | no actually i'm getting a "tag not specified" error | 11:25 |
| kanzure | oh god OCC for java http://jcae.sourceforge.net/occjava-doc/org/jcae/opencascade/jni/TopExp_Explorer.html | 11:29 |
| fenn | it's only to be expected | 11:30 |
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| --- Log opened Thu Jul 23 11:42:02 2009 | ||
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| kanzure | OCC.Sweep | 11:46 |
| fenn | i cant figure out how to call BRepPrimAPI_MakeSweep | 11:48 |
| fenn | but BRepPrimAPI_MakePrism works fine | 11:48 |
| kanzure | hahah | 11:49 |
| fenn | well, except for that missing bit in the center since it's not actually a solid | 11:49 |
| kanzure | import OCC.Units | 11:49 |
| fenn | but i think i can fix that with a union | 11:49 |
| kanzure | see opencascade/OpenCASCADE6.3.0/ros/src/Units/ | 11:52 |
| kanzure | see opencascade/OpenCASCADE6.3.0/ros/src/UnitsAPI/Units.data | 11:52 |
| ybit | http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/diy_3d_printing_and_fabrication/ | 11:52 |
| CIA-44 | skdb: * rb5b3312f8632 / (processes.yaml skdb.py): more data represenation crap | 11:53 |
| ybit | 10:00 < timschmidt_> One of the projects I've been working on is a wrench-buildable repstrap... | 11:53 |
| ybit | link? | 11:53 |
| kanzure | ROTATION STIFFNESS: kg*mm²/(s²*rad) | 11:55 |
| ybit | 10:17 < fenn> one of the goals is to define an abstract language which could be translated to either english human-readable instructions or robot control code (gcode for example) | 11:55 |
| ybit | are you talking about lojban? | 11:56 |
| kanzure | no | 11:56 |
| fenn | ybit: http://builders.reprap.org/2009/02/another-off-shelf-linear-bearing.html | 11:56 |
| ybit | there was a guy working on a #lojban compiler last time i checked | 11:56 |
| fenn | not what i mean by 'language' | 11:56 |
| fenn | more like 'formalism' | 11:56 |
| ybit | ..last i checked was almost a year ago | 11:56 |
| fenn | probably some mix of yaml and python to continue the theme | 11:57 |
| ybit | i knew you were thinking along those lines but it would still be cool to speak lojban :P | 11:58 |
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| ybit | thanks for the link | 11:58 |
| ybit | 02:53 < kanzure> ybit: one disparity between what you've done and how fenn and I have done it is that fenn and I both used scons to get things working | 12:04 |
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| ybit | maybe later i will install debian somewhere on another machine and dedicate it to skdb work, that might help the workflow as well.. | 12:04 |
| kanzure | ybit: it shouldn't matter that you're using gentoo | 12:10 |
| ybit | it would improve workflow, instead of translating debian commands to gentoo | 12:11 |
| ybit | echo "deb http://www.opennovation.org/ubuntu jaunty main contrib non-free" | sudo tee -a /etc/apt/sources.list | 12:11 |
| ybit | sudo apt-get install libopencascade-dev scons python-psyco swig checkinstall | 12:11 |
| wrldpc2 | "you must be a current cryonics suspension member" @http://www.universalimmortalism.org/ uhh what does this mean exactly? | 12:11 |
| kanzure | you must have alcor and your insurance company talking with each other | 12:15 |
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| fenn | organic packaged cookie dough: rational? | 12:26 |
| fenn | "Cyclone Power Technologies attempts to quash internet rumours that his company is developing a robot that runs its biomass-powered engine by digesting fallen soldiers on the battlefield" | 12:34 |
| kanzure | so are those rumors being squashed by the biomass-powered engine that "is most definitely not a robot"? | 12:36 |
| fenn | Los Angeles is trying to "enforce regulations that require condom use in porn films" | 12:36 |
| fenn | that seems about as misguided as gun control | 12:36 |
| kanzure | hm maybe I should think twice before moving there | 12:36 |
| kanzure | http://adl.serveftp.org/lab/screw.skdb.tar | 12:40 |
| ybit | kanzure: you were talking about finding people which might be able to help, something like this might be of use: http://www.jibble.org/piespy/ | 12:53 |
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| * fenn grumbles about kwalify | 13:07 | |
| fenn | why isnt there a basic "url" type? | 13:07 |
| fenn | surely url is as rigorously defined as "int" or "string" | 13:08 |
| fenn | "Diego Gambetta and Steffen Hertog suggest that in the psyche of engineers lurks something that makes them more predisposed to terrorism..." | 13:12 |
| CIA-44 | skdb: kanzure * r99aac6c039d8 /pymates/ (pymates.py tests.py): made some changes to the tests | 13:21 |
| CIA-44 | skdb: kanzure * rb0e0f93e44a9 / (processes.yaml skdb.py): Merge branch 'master' of ssh://bryan@adl.serveftp.org/var/www/skdb | 13:21 |
| kanzure | http://github.com/kanzure/shelltrance/blob/0abbce2af8c699781fef383aa374458b55840e74/trance-skdb | 13:21 |
| kanzure | don't kill me | 13:21 |
| ybit | argh, why spiders jump on my computer screen? they are so interesting, but major distractions | 13:24 |
| ybit | i can't kill it either because it's such a cool spider | 13:24 |
| ybit | i'm jealous he can jump about 20x his body size and climb on wallls | 13:25 |
| ybit | not so jealous that he's bound to be smashed | 13:26 |
| fenn | ybit dip it in liquid nitrogen | 13:28 |
| Smari | kanzure, that's just silly. :) | 13:29 |
| ybit | if only some were available now | 13:29 |
| kanzure | Smari: what's silly? | 13:29 |
| fenn | kanzure keeps wanting me to write this crap | 13:29 |
| kanzure | fenn: because you're clueless | 13:29 |
| Smari | kanzure, the stuff you pasted... it's very cool, but still a bit crazy. | 13:36 |
| kanzure | Smari: fenn and I are trying to come up with the packaging format example | 13:37 |
| Smari | mhm | 13:39 |
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| kanzure | http://github.com/kanzure/shelltrance/tree/master | 13:40 |
| Smari | Simple: .tar.gz containin a manifest file in a standardized format which refers to the rest of the files in the package. Files in the package then also come in some standardized formats. | 13:40 |
| kanzure | yes, but then what about screw.yaml ? | 13:41 |
| fenn | Smari: the problem we're running into is there's no clear separation between metadata and data | 13:41 |
| fenn | in order to thoroughly test compatibility you need all of the data about the object | 13:41 |
| fenn | so the idea is to do a first order "do the units of the attributes match up" test | 13:42 |
| kanzure | I was hoping that there would be some way to do a "search" over the packages so that you can maybe see which one you want to download | 13:42 |
| kanzure | supposedly that would be searching over metadata, right? | 13:42 |
| fenn | and then test all of those wrt domain-dependent tags | 13:42 |
| fenn | github is really slow today | 13:43 |
| fenn | shelltrance is still wrong | 13:44 |
| kanzure | do you refer to the git repo or the shelltrance.txt file | 13:44 |
| fenn | trance-skdb | 13:45 |
| fenn | it shouldnt be #! anything | 13:45 |
| fenn | if it's a transcript of an interactive session | 13:45 |
| fenn | i'll fix it | 13:45 |
| fenn | fsov "fix" | 13:45 |
| kanzure | http://github.com/kanzure/shelltrance/blob/1e1c5a88776c128587a193c5a4954acf7c149edb/trance-skdb | 13:46 |
| kanzure | there? | 13:46 |
| fenn | blah | 13:53 |
| fenn | http://adl.serveftp.org/git/gitweb.cgi?p=shelltrance.git;a=blob_plain;f=trance-skdb;hb=79bfe7a68e1c50b7d82ac9adc004a570b741ac5c | 13:53 |
| fenn | that took way too long | 13:53 |
| kanzure | hm. skdb/process.yaml shows up when searching google for filetype:yaml | 13:54 |
| kanzure | #15~ | 13:55 |
| kanzure | cool, queries like this also lead to it: "arbor milling" "abrasive jet" "internal broaching" | 13:56 |
| kanzure | hm.. http://mirror.sit.wisc.edu/pub/CPAN/authors/RECENT-1W.yaml | 13:58 |
| kanzure | Smari: how would you make it? | 13:59 |
| kanzure | Smari: I mean, when should it download python versus just data etc. ? | 13:59 |
| Smari | kanzure, I'd say keeping it non-executable is a good idea for security reasons. | 14:05 |
| kanzure | Smari: er, what I am asking about is architecture-related | 14:06 |
| kanzure | if you had a "super" fablab, how should this work? | 14:06 |
| Smari | Of course we can't do much to prevent second-order execution (i.e., devices being described which contain payloads) | 14:06 |
| kanzure | how do you search for which packages you want to download? | 14:06 |
| kanzure | er, or how do you do it now (without skdb or anything like that) | 14:08 |
| kanzure | from what I can tell most people don't know how to search for whether or not a machine or part exists that does what they are thinking of | 14:09 |
| kanzure | fenn: maybe part compatibility shouldn't be related to search.. | 14:09 |
| kanzure | so the metadata will just then be a list of packages, their dependencies, names, descriptions. :/ | 14:09 |
| kanzure | xpkg: it's what xkcd would be called if it was a package manager instead of a webcomic | 14:11 |
| kanzure | http://peter.michaux.ca/articles/xpkg-generic-package-managment-software | 14:11 |
| kanzure | doesn't seem to do much | 14:13 |
| fenn | http://adl.serveftp.org/lab/fenn/screw.skdb.tgz | 14:15 |
| timschmidt_ | ybit: http://builders.reprap.org/2009/04/first-example-of-wrench-build-machine.html | 14:15 |
| kanzure | also, btw, smart apparently has a plugin-abble "policies" that rank solutions to dependency problems: http://labix.org/smart | 14:18 |
| fenn | Smari: packages should be signed; can you explain why allowing execution is bad? | 14:20 |
| kanzure | fenn: did you fix metadata.yaml? | 14:23 |
| fenn | no | 14:23 |
| timschmidt_ | nearly all Linux packages contain scripts which are executed upon installation / removal. | 14:23 |
| timschmidt_ | So long as the packages come from a trusted source, there's no problem with that | 14:23 |
| timschmidt_ | (they are, after all, installing things which you will execute on your own at a later date) | 14:24 |
| kanzure | xpkg would be neat if somebody was actively maintaining it | 14:24 |
| ybit | timschmidt_: nice :) | 14:25 |
| fenn | hm. i've been told to ask smari what is "group theory" and what it has to do with package management | 14:27 |
| ybit | by whom? | 14:28 |
| fenn | a little bird | 14:28 |
| kanzure | tweet tweet tweet | 14:28 |
| ybit | :) | 14:28 |
| timschmidt_ | ybit: I'm proud of the pillow block bearings. They're stupid simple (which is a feature!) - just a 608 skate bearing, JB Weld, and a 3/4" pipe hanger. It seems obvious, but replaces a part that costs $25+ each with something that costs ~$0.50. | 14:30 |
| fenn | what's the JB weld for? | 14:30 |
| kanzure | fenn: be sure to look at http://labix.org/smart eventually | 14:31 |
| * fenn looks | 14:31 | |
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| timschmidt | http://builders.reprap.org/2009/03/1-no-tools-pillow-block-bearing.html | 14:33 |
| timschmidt | I used two bearings and a clamp there. After testing, I found that only one was necessary, and a flat surface works as well as a clamp. | 14:33 |
| * ybit is off to work | 14:36 | |
| fenn | i'm doing basically the same thing on my gingery lathe motor pulley, but i dont use any jb-weld | 14:38 |
| fenn | it's also just a strap of metal with holes drilled in it, not a 3/4" pipe hanger | 14:39 |
| kanzure | http://labix.org/python-constraint hehe | 14:39 |
| fenn | i was thinking about putting a strip of rubber between the bearing and hanger | 14:39 |
| fenn | dpkg -S /usr/bin/rename ought to find _something_ | 14:45 |
| fenn | think it's from util-linux, but still seems odd that it doesn't show up | 14:48 |
| fenn | $ dpkg -S /bin/ls | 14:49 |
| fenn | coreutils: /bin/ls | 14:49 |
| fenn | $ dpkg -S /usr/bin/ddate | 14:50 |
| fenn | util-linux: /usr/bin/ddate | 14:50 |
| kanzure | so rename comes with ddate :) | 14:51 |
| fenn | no it doesnt | 14:51 |
| fenn | i'm just demonstrating that dpkg -S works for the package util-linux | 14:52 |
| fenn | still dont know where it comes from | 14:52 |
| kanzure | bkchem - python-based chemical structures editor | 14:55 |
| kanzure | pkpgcounter - computes number of pages or quantity of ink needed to print documents | 14:58 |
| kanzure | python-apt - Python interface to libapt-pkg | 15:00 |
| kanzure | heh python-beagle | 15:00 |
| timschmidt | someone asked about concrete as a building material earlier... I remembered that the OpenLathe people have been working with it for some time. | 15:00 |
| timschmidt | http://openlathe.wikidot.com/ | 15:00 |
| fenn | never heard of that; how long has it been around? | 15:00 |
| timschmidt | unsure | 15:01 |
| fenn | compare and contrast: http://fennetic.net/machines/bootstrap http://openlathe.wikidot.com/lathe-bed | 15:02 |
| fenn | looks like nobody's touched it since jun 2008 | 15:03 |
| kanzure | python-gastables - compressible flow gas table modules for Python | 15:04 |
| kanzure | heh graphical interface? blah | 15:05 |
| timschmidt | I think most activity happens in their Yahoo group... | 15:05 |
| kanzure | the fact that they are using a yahoo group tells you something about them | 15:06 |
| kanzure | I joined the list a while back | 15:06 |
| timschmidt | certainly. | 15:06 |
| timschmidt | Most machinists aren't super-computer savy though. | 15:06 |
| kanzure | or I tried to. this might have been one of the groups that doesn't allow new members. | 15:06 |
| kanzure | timschmidt: you're hanging out with the wrong machinists | 15:06 |
| timschmidt | lol | 15:06 |
| timschmidt | I think it's mostly a symptom of the times. There were a LOT more machining jobs in this country 50 years ago. | 15:08 |
| genehacker2 | but then all the equipment went to china | 15:08 |
| timschmidt | well, mostly the Chinese built their own equipment, but yes. | 15:08 |
| genehacker2 | some of it did | 15:09 |
| kanzure | yee-haw, let's ship a 5 ton CNC center over the ocean | 15:09 |
| timschmidt | right. Which is why they built their own. | 15:09 |
| fenn | i saw a show on discovery channel where they disassembled an entire factory in germany, labeled everything, shipped to china and reassembled, all in like 3 months | 15:09 |
| kanzure | there's a company that does this | 15:09 |
| kanzure | Matrix Services | 15:09 |
| genehacker2 | the only thing I've heard of going overseas was a gear cutter | 15:11 |
| fenn | this was a steel mill | 15:13 |
| fenn | not small | 15:13 |
| genehacker2 | wow | 15:13 |
| kanzure | http://neuroimaging.scipy.org/site/index.html | 15:14 |
| CIA-44 | skdb: * r6c5370e42cf9 /occ_shell.py: thought i committed usage info earlier | 15:15 |
| katsmeow-afk | the steel mill the Terminater movie was shot in was packed for shipping to China the day after shooting ended | 15:19 |
| katsmeow-afk | for a couple reshoots, like the liquid terminator changing shapes in the "molten steel", they had to do mockups, the factory didn;t exist by then | 15:20 |
| katsmeow-afk | for things the Chinese cannot ship, they buy entirely: for oil sands in Canada, they also bought the pipeline to the coast and the right-of-way it sits on | 15:21 |
| timschmidt | For a sense of humor, they bought The Onion. | 15:22 |
| katsmeow-afk | so in some places in BC Ca, you haveto go thru China to get to the rest of BC | 15:22 |
| CIA-44 | skdb: * r9bd74bbef3a9 / (screw.py skdb.py): split screw into its own file; to be included in a package | 15:22 |
| timschmidt | http://www.theonion.com/content/columnists/well_ive_sold_the_paper_to | 15:23 |
| genehacker2 | really? | 15:23 |
| genehacker2 | heh speaking of liquid metal terminators and modular robots | 15:25 |
| CIA-44 | skdb: * r37ff5d05de51 / (screw.py tests.py): fix for namespace changes | 15:27 |
| genehacker2 | The same sensors could have detected the weightlessness of falling, and the pre-programmed panic sequence could then have ordered the T-1000 cells to form into a parachute. The hot air rising from the molten steel would have lifted it up out of harm's way. | 15:28 |
| genehacker2 | http://www.islandone.org/MMSG/9609lego.htm | 15:28 |
| fenn | genehacker2: it also could have just killed sarah when it had the chance | 15:29 |
| fenn | not very terminator-y | 15:29 |
| genehacker2 | bah | 15:29 |
| katsmeow-afk | yeas, that whole scene wasn't believeable,, except they establkished before that when multiple damage is done, the terminator can't respond | 15:30 |
| genehacker2 | its just something to keep in mind when building our robot armies... | 15:30 |
| katsmeow-afk | yeas, that defect was fixed in the tv series of liquid metals | 15:31 |
| genehacker2 | meh it's movie physics | 15:31 |
| katsmeow-afk | the woman liquid terminator seemingly wasn't damageable, and remianed sentient/sapient during attacks, and could reach 20ft in either direction, and carry electricity, unlike the quasi-liquid terminator in T3 | 15:32 |
| kanzure | today I seem to be able to do anything except work on pymates | 15:36 |
| CIA-44 | skdb: * r8cdfa3a7e731 /screw.py: compatibility assertion | 15:39 |
| CIA-44 | skdb: * r9f36149a52a4 / (skdb.py units.py yamlcrap.py): split yaml and units into their own files | 15:55 |
| fenn | might want to test that | 15:55 |
| CIA-44 | skdb: * rc85a402ecf7e /skdb.py: gah. forgot to save after deleting. units and yaml in their own files for real now | 15:57 |
| draz|lab | welp, the 293FT's are transfected | 16:00 |
| CIA-44 | skdb: * ra8c6aaf5751d / (skdb.py thread.py): split Thread into its own file - still slightly broken (cant find !thread for some reason) | 16:06 |
| wrldpc2 | My family runs a machine shop for the record. Just putting that out there. They're in Lewiston, ME -- not the most current machine tech but they have a full compliment of lathes, a forge, etc. | 16:38 |
| QuantumG | bastard | 16:57 |
| kanzure | wrldpc2: Are they generally agreeable people? | 17:06 |
| wrldpc2 | absolutely | 17:06 |
| wrldpc2 | I very much would like to help in any way that I can. Just saying. | 17:07 |
| kanzure | there are many ideas that come to mind | 17:07 |
| wrldpc2 | They can do custom stuff. | 17:07 |
| kanzure | if I sent you schematics, CAD files, etc., would they be able to tell me if they would want some money to make it or not? | 17:09 |
| fenn | i think they'd certainly be able to answer the question | 17:09 |
| wrldpc2 | Let me get you an email .. | 17:13 |
| wrldpc2 | sales@down-east.com | 17:13 |
| wrldpc2 | That's my uncle Steve | 17:13 |
| wrldpc2 | tell him Ben Peterson (Bob's son) his brother referred you. | 17:14 |
| wrldpc2 | I have NO idea what their CAD capabilities are .. heh | 17:14 |
| wrldpc2 | the shop is equipped with 1950s tech latest | 17:14 |
| wrldpc2 | there is a computer there | 17:14 |
| wrldpc2 | lol | 17:14 |
| wrldpc2 | schema sure | 17:14 |
| wrldpc2 | I'm just an idiot. | 17:15 |
| kanzure | 1950s tech is good enough | 17:16 |
| fenn | not for making use of g-code | 17:16 |
| kanzure | probably better.. | 17:16 |
| wrldpc2 | I gotta jet. They will DEFINITELY help you. If I knew what I was talking about I might be able to get some of the work done gratis so keep that in mind. | 17:16 |
| wrldpc2 | go xhumans go! | 17:16 |
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| genehacker2 | ok wrldpc2 | 17:19 |
| genehacker2 | compile this: | 17:19 |
| genehacker2 | http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:816 | 17:19 |
| kanzure | "The spectra of photon emission detected from the palm skin span from 500 to 700 nm, with primary and secondary emission peaks at 630–670 nm and 520–580 nm, respectively" | 17:20 |
| genehacker2 | yup | 17:22 |
| genehacker2 | we glow red | 17:22 |
| genehacker2 | and green | 17:22 |
| genehacker2 | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immersion_lithography | 17:28 |
| fenn | genehacker2: the rolamite bearing is pretty cool | 17:30 |
| fenn | genehacker2: i think you'd have to make all the pieces tapered to take up the slop but still be printable | 17:31 |
| genehacker2 | tapered? | 17:31 |
| fenn | hm. actually i think it won't work because the silicone will stretch, and rolamite band has to be stiff | 17:32 |
| fenn | otherwise the band will scuff against the outer race | 17:32 |
| genehacker2 | I designed the band so that it's in tension | 17:32 |
| fenn | i know | 17:32 |
| fenn | what keeps the inner rollers from moving outward? | 17:33 |
| genehacker2 | tension | 17:33 |
| fenn | the band will stretch | 17:33 |
| fenn | you'd have to add nylon thread to the band or something | 17:33 |
| genehacker2 | there is also ~1 mm of clearance between the band and the bearing race | 17:33 |
| fenn | you see what i'm saying? | 17:34 |
| genehacker2 | not really | 17:34 |
| genehacker2 | so put nylon thread into it to decrease the modulus? | 17:34 |
| genehacker2 | oh shoot that might be a problem | 17:35 |
| genehacker2 | yup looks like I need to increase the modulus | 17:36 |
| genehacker2 | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-BK_iEJ7Go does this avoid that problem? | 17:36 |
| fenn | genehacker2: http://imagebin.org/56933 | 17:37 |
| genehacker2 | yeah I see what you mean | 17:38 |
| genehacker2 | now how can I compensate for that? | 17:38 |
| fenn | increase the modulus | 17:38 |
| genehacker2 | any other way? | 17:38 |
| fenn | i'm sort of bullshitting.. i mean add a fiber that's flexible but stiff in tension | 17:39 |
| genehacker2 | that's what increasing the modulus means | 17:39 |
| fenn | i guess | 17:39 |
| genehacker2 | perhaps increase the clearance? | 17:40 |
| genehacker2 | now then how to get the nylon in there | 17:41 |
| fenn | also i'm not sure how it's better than just a roller bearing | 17:42 |
| genehacker2 | it can be replicated | 17:42 |
| genehacker2 | doesn't require high tolerances | 17:42 |
| fenn | why can't you just print a tapered roller bearing? | 17:43 |
| genehacker2 | CAD it up | 17:43 |
| fenn | i dont have any cad | 17:43 |
| fenn | well, i'm lazy, so there | 17:44 |
| genehacker2 | why tapered? | 17:44 |
| fenn | to take out the slop | 17:44 |
| genehacker2 | ???? | 17:44 |
| fenn | so you dont need "high" tolerances | 17:44 |
| genehacker2 | in rolamites, the roller need not be perfectly round | 17:44 |
| kanzure | eh? http://www.minitage.org/ | 17:44 |
| genehacker2 | hmmm... | 17:46 |
| genehacker2 | kanzure's in the ADL | 17:46 |
| genehacker2 | kanzure can you access the stratasys? | 17:47 |
| fenn | genehacker2: couldnt you do some sort of flexible chain made from plastic? then you could use the stratasys | 17:49 |
| fenn | oh wait that would defeat the purpose of the rolamite | 17:49 |
| fenn | um. how about just a thin band of abs | 17:50 |
| fenn | polypropylene would be best i think | 17:50 |
| fenn | abs is too brittle nevermind | 17:50 |
| genehacker2 | it might not be | 17:52 |
| genehacker2 | just need to figure out how much strain it can take | 17:53 |
| genehacker2 | meh | 17:53 |
| genehacker2 | probably wouldn't last too long | 17:53 |
| fenn | abs has crap fatigue strength too | 17:53 |
| genehacker2 | damn | 17:53 |
| genehacker2 | definately won't work | 17:53 |
| genehacker2 | now then how to encapsulate the nylon | 17:55 |
| genehacker2 | perhaps some sort of 2 step mold process? | 17:55 |
| fenn | when i was thinking about how to make my own timing belts i came up with this procedure: | 17:56 |
| fenn | make an internal mold (arbor) and smear a thin layer of silicone over it | 17:57 |
| fenn | then wrap it evenly with nylon, and apply more silicone | 17:57 |
| fenn | repeat for desired thickness/strength | 17:57 |
| genehacker2 | sorta what I mean by 2 step molding | 17:57 |
| fenn | then slide the tube off the arbor by your desired belt thickness, and slice with a razor blade | 17:57 |
| fenn | the demolding might need to be more complicated since the belt will be under tension due to shrinkage and being wrapped with a certain amount of tension | 17:58 |
| fenn | that might not matter so much for a smooth belt though | 17:59 |
| genehacker2 | shrinkage from molding | 17:59 |
| fenn | shrinkage from the silicone curing | 17:59 |
| genehacker2 | silicone doesn't shrink that much | 17:59 |
| genehacker2 | 0.0001 something | 17:59 |
| fenn | not much but it doesnt have to be much | 17:59 |
| genehacker2 | if you mean shrinkage due to stretching that's easy | 18:00 |
| genehacker2 | I already take that into acount | 18:00 |
| genehacker2 | interesting | 18:06 |
| genehacker2 | we might be able to make dielectric elastomer actuators | 18:06 |
| genehacker2 | looks like the suck though | 18:07 |
| genehacker2 | hmm... | 18:15 |
| genehacker2 | Nylon fiber has a young's modulus of 3000 MPa | 18:15 |
| genehacker2 | http://users.tamuk.edu/kfldp00/research/Papers/dissertation.pdf | 18:23 |
| genehacker2 | this may be harder than it looks | 18:25 |
| genehacker2 | you know I'm starting to think that the best way to make this might be to use a special silicone-nylon fiber extruder | 18:33 |
| genehacker2 | heh | 18:35 |
| genehacker2 | nylon fibers in silicone happens to be an advanced composite | 18:35 |
| kanzure | $icanhas millingmachine | 19:24 |
| kanzure | huh "get" is an unused command name | 19:24 |
| genehacker2 | ??? | 19:25 |
| genehacker2 | 99999999999 get? | 19:25 |
| kanzure | nget, wget, kget, debget, cget, but no "get" | 19:28 |
| genehacker2 | really? | 19:28 |
| genehacker2 | in what? | 19:28 |
| kanzure | my system | 19:29 |
| genehacker2 | ugh | 19:29 |
| genehacker2 | headphone malfunction | 19:30 |
| genehacker2 | btw you know that acoustic control thing in diybio, do you have the paper for it? | 19:30 |
| genehacker2 | I have a use for it | 19:30 |
| kanzure | no, but I have an older one where they did the same damn thing but without resonance | 19:30 |
| genehacker2 | I want the resonance one | 19:31 |
| genehacker2 | btw did the video of it working ever play for you? | 19:31 |
| genehacker2 | also was it with droplets or channels? | 19:32 |
| kanzure | it was with piezos and channels but when you activated the piezos waves would form and go over a boundary, so I guess that's sort of like a drop | 19:34 |
| genehacker2 | was in a channel though? | 19:34 |
| fenn | libwww-perl: /usr/bin/GET | 19:34 |
| genehacker2 | I want to repurpose it and make a acousto-fluidic FM receiver | 19:36 |
| genehacker2 | that outputs a 1 or 0 for if a certain tone is present | 19:36 |
| kanzure | FM? | 19:38 |
| genehacker2 | frequency modulated | 19:39 |
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| genehacker2 | have a bunch of resonators for each control tone and some associated fluidic circuitry | 19:40 |
| genehacker2 | it's for controlling my army of steampunk robots | 19:41 |
| fenn | with your steam calliope of death | 19:43 |
| genehacker2 | yeah | 19:43 |
| genehacker2 | or a gramophone or something | 19:44 |
| kanzure | http://nixos.org/nixos/screenshots/nixos-kde42-1.png what's that image in the middle? | 19:44 |
| genehacker2 | penguins designing an airplane? | 19:45 |
| genehacker2 | or that program thing | 19:47 |
| fenn | "the penguins of madagascar" | 19:47 |
| fenn | maybe | 19:48 |
| kanzure | huh? the list at the bottom http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Architecture_description_language | 19:58 |
| kanzure | 17:49:30 omg/jblake: "Controllers" change a system dynamically, as it is operating. | 20:10 |
| kanzure | 17:49:44 omg/jblake: "Managers" plan changes to a system, before it is operated. | 20:10 |
| kanzure | 17:50:35 omg/jblake: "Resources" are things that are needed for "projects", which are things that you | 20:10 |
| kanzure | are trying to build. | 20:11 |
| kanzure | fast & furious was over too fast and too furiously | 21:29 |
| kanzure | apparently ERP is all done by psych majors | 21:31 |
| genehacker2 | pysch majors just do stuff at low abstraction levels | 21:37 |
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| ybit | 17:57 < genehacker2> if you mean shrinkage due to stretching that's easy | 22:18 |
| ybit | 17:57 < genehacker2> I already take that into acount | 22:18 |
| ybit | 18:04 < genehacker2> looks like the suck though | 22:18 |
| ybit | the hell are you guys talking about ;) | 22:18 |
| genehacker2 | a 3d printable rotary rolamite bearing I designed | 22:18 |
| * ybit was quite aware | 22:21 | |
| ybit | unless that's a new phrase for it i've yet to come across ;) | 22:21 |
| genehacker2 | oops | 22:21 |
| genehacker2 | typing erros | 22:21 |
| genehacker2 | *error | 22:22 |
| ybit | :) | 22:22 |
| genehacker2 | that wasn't intentional | 22:22 |
| ybit | right, thus the humor | 22:24 |
| genehacker2 | but it turned into humor | 22:25 |
| ybit | now this i wasn't aware of, the maufacturing processes reference guide only documents ~300 processes as dictacted/suggest by the Manufacturing Consortium Industral Members who helped with the book | 22:25 |
| ybit | fenn^ | 22:26 |
| * ybit wants a list of all processes | 22:26 | |
| ybit | or at least those that weren't listed | 22:26 |
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| fenn | wah. | 23:03 |
| fenn | "all" processes eh? | 23:03 |
| fenn | try the vatican | 23:04 |
| ybit | heh, i know it's a little much to ask, but dreaming is allowed in irc | 23:06 |
| ybit | so i've been told in #defocus | 23:10 |
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| ybit | hmm | 23:47 |
| ybit | guess i'll be needing to setup a personal server soon for pirated content | 23:47 |
| ybit | http://filebin.ca/uwpzkb/m83-weowntheskyudachiremixremastered.mp3 | 23:47 |
| ybit | for stuff like that | 23:47 |
| ybit | music, papers, videos | 23:48 |
| ybit | other | 23:48 |
| ybit | _not_ associated with http://co.de or heath.im | 23:48 |
| QuantumG | http://www.quantumg.net/David_Kushner_-_Masters_Of_Doom.txt | 23:48 |
| QuantumG | about the only ebook I've warez | 23:48 |
| QuantumG | cause you just couldn't buy it anywhere at the time | 23:49 |
| ybit | wrldpc2 has grown a beard again | 23:49 |
| ybit | i just don't understand it, how people can do that | 23:49 |
| QuantumG | grow a beard? | 23:50 |
| ybit | yeah, i'm kind of jealous | 23:50 |
| ybit | i only get peach fuzz | 23:50 |
| QuantumG | oh. how old are ya? | 23:50 |
| ybit | 23 | 23:50 |
| QuantumG | I'm 32 and it'd take me about a month to grow a beard that my bearded friends would mock | 23:50 |
| ybit | that doesn't give me hope ;) | 23:51 |
| katsmeow-afk | not a big thing, i'm 53 and can't grow a beard either, but then i know why | 23:51 |
| QuantumG | maybe 6 months to get something I don't know how to care for | 23:51 |
| ybit | katsmeow-afk: :P | 23:51 |
| ybit | katsmeow-afk: 53. wow. you have to be the coolest 53yr old i know | 23:51 |
| ybit | well... | 23:51 |
| ybit | nope, definitely the coolest | 23:51 |
| katsmeow-afk | someone suggested a hypercube using the nearly 200 68331 cpu i have, but i can't figure out how to make that much bandwidth happen,,,, or why i need such a thing | 23:52 |
| ybit | the other guy i know doesn't use irc, but he's taught me quite a bit about electronics | 23:52 |
| QuantumG | on one of the space channels I'm on there's a 60yo guy... and another guy on there is a 12yo | 23:52 |
| ybit | heh | 23:52 |
| ybit | http://filebin.ca/gbbdug/DISCOVERY-SOINSANE.mp3 | 23:59 |
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