| --- Day changed Wed Oct 21 2009 | ||
| bkero | uh | 00:11 |
|---|---|---|
| bkero | fsv is the linux equivalent | 00:11 |
| bkero | It's old | 00:11 |
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| ybit | http://ybit.ath.cx/unsorted_papers/Optics%20and%20design%20of%20the%20fringe%20field%20monochromator%20for%20a%20Schottky%20field%20emission%20gun.pdf | 08:12 |
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| ybit2 | any91027138: why do you care what it looks like? | 12:37 |
| ybit2 | the transformer wave output on the oscopes that is | 12:38 |
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| ybit2 | any91027138: it's been bother me today, you're prob. so i just asked my boss who it seems has worked at a business dealing with transformers specifically, we were able to replicate your output as well | 12:49 |
| ybit2 | you are probably picking up stray voltage from fluorescent lights in the room | 12:49 |
| ybit2 | you need to ground the opposite tip of the probe | 12:50 |
| ybit2 | and i'm out | 12:50 |
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| genehacker2 | is jonathan cline here? | 13:13 |
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| kanzure | no | 13:32 |
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| kanzure | http://www.epicycle.org/resources/HEwithDxPowerAndMomentumLim.png | 15:16 |
| kanzure | any ideas on doing this with gnuplot? | 15:16 |
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| genehacker | damn | 15:35 |
| genehacker | learned why needles vary in diameter | 15:35 |
| Utopiah | kanzure: did you upload it all or is it through djangit? | 15:39 |
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| kanzure | Utopiah: what? | 16:01 |
| Utopiah | did you copy the content of heybrian on your github account? | 16:27 |
| kanzure | no | 16:30 |
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| ybit | the latest paths.py error: http://pastebin.com/m2cc1db59 | 18:48 |
| ybit | kanzure, this may be of interest | 18:48 |
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| genehacker | kanzure got any papers on asteroid mining? | 19:54 |
| kanzure | genehacker: no, just LOX orbital mining | 19:54 |
| kanzure | ybit: 3001.png and friends are harvested from the web, you should just touch the files for now and be happy. i can send the images later i guess | 19:55 |
| kanzure | but the pngs are definitely not in the skdb.git repo, so that should explain why you got the error that you did | 19:55 |
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| genehacker | what's lox orbital mining? | 20:00 |
| genehacker | mining asteroids for LOX? | 20:00 |
| genehacker | if that vasimir thing works, it might be better to mine the hydrogen and use the oxygen to breath | 20:00 |
| ybit | omfg, paths.py worked :) | 20:07 |
| ybit | http://ybit.ath.cx/images/2009-10-21-200714_1024x768_scrot.png | 20:12 |
| ybit | should i rename that to "bryan sucks a matrix math again.png" ;) | 20:12 |
| ybit | looks like it's identifying a hole correctly, but not recognizing that there's an object in the way | 20:14 |
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| genehacker | hmmm.... rare earth's aren't so rare on asteroids | 20:23 |
| genehacker | what does paths.py do? | 20:24 |
| ybit | it just shows simple part mating of two bricks, iirc, for presentation purposes | 20:27 |
| genehacker | what does it do? | 20:30 |
| genehacker | and how does it do it? | 20:31 |
| ybit | http://adl.serveftp.org/dokuwiki/_media/fschemerawsmall.jpg :: i like how the tag-line here is "apt-get for real stuff" those floating submarines don't look real to me :P | 20:31 |
| ybit | genehacker: it takes two bricks and combines them and you get to watch, how? i've yet to decipher all of the code, yet, so that's a question for kanzure | 20:32 |
| ybit | or fenn if he ever gets back back from his top-secret mission to the galapagos | 20:33 |
| kanzure | what is the question? | 20:41 |
| genehacker | the galapogos, really? | 21:07 |
| kanzure | something about training under turtle master roshi | 21:08 |
| kanzure | ybit: eventually i'll turn the lego interfaces into ODE joints so that rotations can happen | 21:09 |
| kanzure | also a better picture of the interesection problem would be hawt (also the graph exported in yaml) | 21:10 |
| genehacker | so do you specify the possible lego connection points? | 21:26 |
| genehacker | or does some program of yours figure that out? | 21:27 |
| kanzure | you specifyi t: http://adl.serveftp.org/skdb/packages/lego/data.yaml | 21:28 |
| kanzure | also: http://adl.serveftp.org/skdb/packages/lego/grammar.yaml | 21:29 |
| genehacker | :( | 21:29 |
| genehacker | paths.py does what? | 21:29 |
| kanzure | it lets you visualize what's going on so you other people can go "oh now i get it" | 21:30 |
| genehacker | if you're just showing the mating of two bricks, you are reinventing the wheel | 21:30 |
| genehacker | maybe there's something I'm not seeing | 21:32 |
| genehacker | it seems like you're doing something every lego cad program does | 21:33 |
| kanzure | genehacker: i'm tired of explaining it to you | 21:34 |
| kanzure | why can't you be more like ybit | 21:34 |
| genehacker | from what I can tell it looks like your program is randomely putting together lego bricks | 21:38 |
| genehacker | I am having trouble seeing the use of this | 21:38 |
| kanzure | well if you tell people "legos are being connected" they don't believe you | 21:38 |
| kanzure | you have to show it to them | 21:38 |
| genehacker | so it randomely assembles lego bricks and shows them being moved into position, correct? | 21:39 |
| kanzure | no it does not show them being moved | 21:40 |
| genehacker | then what does it do? | 21:40 |
| kanzure | it shows the assembly | 21:40 |
| genehacker | does it randomely appearify lego blocks at interface points? | 21:41 |
| kanzure | looking at a list of what's connected to what is sometimes hard to figure out | 21:41 |
| kanzure | yes but that's just because it's a demo and unguided | 21:41 |
| genehacker | or is it actually putting some preassembled shape together | 21:41 |
| genehacker | lego cad programs can automatically generate assembly instructions already if that's what you're trying too do | 21:42 |
| kanzure | none of them are open source | 21:42 |
| kanzure | also their instructions suck | 21:42 |
| genehacker | how is this better? | 21:43 |
| kanzure | it's open source | 21:43 |
| genehacker | ok | 21:43 |
| kanzure | also it's based on real CAD data | 21:44 |
| kanzure | not STL files like most lego programs | 21:44 |
| kanzure | (there's one that uses povray files but i consider it suspect..) | 21:44 |
| genehacker | so have you figured out how to automatically generate assembly steps for a lego block assembly? | 21:44 |
| kanzure | yes but what i haven't figured out is how to do it for the general case | 21:45 |
| genehacker | what do you mean how to do it for the general case? | 21:45 |
| kanzure | for anything that's not legos | 21:45 |
| genehacker | do you have a demo that shows automatic lego block assembly instruction generation? | 21:46 |
| kanzure | no but fenn wrote a graph maker that shows how a lego assembly goes together (it's not the same thing as instructions though) | 21:46 |
| genehacker | a lego assembly graph? | 21:47 |
| genehacker | that has already been done | 21:47 |
| genehacker | so you can't generate instructions for any arbitrary assembly of the lego blocks that are in skdb? | 21:47 |
| kanzure | the code for that hasn't been written because it won't apply to things that are non-legos | 21:48 |
| kanzure | it would be totally useless since legos aren't what we're aiming for | 21:48 |
| kanzure | i mean, they are part of the subset of what we are aiming for | 21:48 |
| kanzure | but a general solution for instruction generation is the gold here, not just lego pictures one after another | 21:48 |
| genehacker | show me that you can automatically generate instructions for legos then I'll be impressed | 21:49 |
| kanzure | why would you be impressed by that? | 21:50 |
| kanzure | add this brick, add that brick | 21:50 |
| kanzure | meh | 21:50 |
| genehacker | because it might allow for totally automatic assembly of lego structures which would be cool | 21:51 |
| kanzure | i think we should focus on more general assembly instruction generation | 21:51 |
| kanzure | so that we could cover more than just legos | 21:51 |
| genehacker | how would automatically generating instructions for just legos work? | 21:52 |
| kanzure | let's say that you construct an assembly in skdb by connecting parts together | 21:53 |
| kanzure | the simplest way to generate pamphlet-style instructions would be to render the assembly at each stage | 21:53 |
| kanzure | and highlight the latest brick that has been added, from a standard isometric view | 21:53 |
| kanzure | but these are not really "instructions", they are just pictures | 21:53 |
| kanzure | to me instructions would be "append this lego brick to that lego brick by the upper two rows of studs" | 21:54 |
| genehacker | how do you know how to add the next brick where? | 21:54 |
| kanzure | that information is in the assembly already | 21:54 |
| genehacker | can you generate logical instructions though | 21:54 |
| kanzure | what? | 21:55 |
| genehacker | for example, if you're constructing a lego pyramid, how does the program know to start at the bottom of the pyramid and work it's way to the top instead of the other way? | 21:55 |
| kanzure | i could ask the same for you | 21:56 |
| kanzure | why would you start from the bottom anyway? | 21:56 |
| kanzure | you can start just about anywhere | 21:56 |
| kanzure | since you could lay the pyramid on its side | 21:56 |
| genehacker | what if it's a really large pyramid and I don't have construction equipment | 21:57 |
| kanzure | i guess the guy who added the pyramid to skdb would have to check that | 21:57 |
| genehacker | check what? | 21:58 |
| kanzure | maybe he would make sure it always started from the bottom and worked its way up | 21:58 |
| kanzure | check that the instructions look ok | 21:58 |
| kanzure | and aren't i.e. totally fucking ridiculous :) | 21:58 |
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| genehacker | there are many ways to generate instructions for the same object, however, only a couple will actually make sense or be practically useful in the real world | 21:59 |
| genehacker | I guess you could specify a ground plate that tells the program which way is the bottom | 22:00 |
| kanzure | yes | 22:01 |
| kanzure | also some common checks/guidelines can be executed on instructions or the instruction generator | 22:01 |
| kanzure | to make sure it doesn't cause impossible scenarios | 22:01 |
| genehacker | what common checks/guidelines need to be performed? | 22:01 |
| kanzure | i think we'll learn that with time | 22:02 |
| kanzure | when we get back funky results and say "hmm that's not right" | 22:02 |
| genehacker | I'm worried this could be a problem for automatic instruction generation of general objects | 22:03 |
| genehacker | and how do you generate instructions for a puzzle type object where several pieces need to be positioned at the same time? | 22:07 |
| genehacker | anyway if you can generate instructions for lego pieces that make sense, it shouldn't be too hard to make instructions for general objects | 22:12 |
| genehacker | especially if you can generat instructions for any lego assembly consisting of any lego piece | 22:13 |
| genehacker | what is the point of automatically generating instructions for humans to carry out, an exploded view cad model works just as good. | 22:31 |
| genehacker | I need to teach myself python | 22:36 |
| genehacker | so I could write a program to determine which molding process would work for which metal | 22:37 |
| genehacker | and part | 22:38 |
| kanzure | exploded views don't tell you how to use a lathe | 22:42 |
| genehacker | yeah, so...? | 22:43 |
| genehacker | do you have a program that can automatically generate instructions on how to use a lathe to make a part? | 22:43 |
| kanzure | no but i need one | 22:44 |
| genehacker | and if said part can be lathed? | 22:44 |
| genehacker | argh, why can't there be a list of phase diagrams that aren't in graph.pdf for every alloy? | 22:46 |
| genehacker | also for making .yaml files for casting processes where does mold material and mold material data go? | 22:48 |
| genehacker | How do I denote subsets of a generalized casting process? | 22:49 |
| kanzure | let me check | 22:50 |
| kanzure | technically it would go under taxonomy.yaml somewhere | 22:51 |
| kanzure | http://adl.serveftp.org/skdb/taxonomy.yaml | 22:51 |
| kanzure | so for example "grinding" is under "abrasive" and so "grinding" inherits all of the parameters to "abrasive" but can choose to over-write them with its own custom values | 22:52 |
| kanzure | i think that's what you're talking about? | 22:52 |
| kanzure | i think material data probably belongs somewhere else.. but the process should be able to determine what characteristics of the material matter how, or whtaever | 22:53 |
| kanzure | *whatever | 22:53 |
| genehacker | for example investment casting can use several different types of lost-patterns(wax, plastic, styrofoam) and several different types of slurries | 22:54 |
| genehacker | there are also several molding process modifiers | 22:55 |
| genehacker | like centrifugal casting and thixocasting that might be appliable to several different molding techniques | 22:56 |
| genehacker | should I just make yaml files for each of the branches in the casting part of the tree for now? | 23:01 |
| genehacker | and work the othe stuff out later | 23:01 |
| kanzure | sure, we can work it out | 23:08 |
| genehacker | so I just dump in tons and tons of useful data? | 23:19 |
| genehacker | if you have a good format for putting in mathematical relations I could put some useful stuff in | 23:20 |
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