| --- Day changed Wed Oct 28 2009 | ||
| kanzure | must needly optimize | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
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| fenn | "We were made for each other, Baby. Nothing can keep us apart." This was the last thing she would ever say to me. | 00:51 |
| splicer | I guess she was wrong then | 01:16 |
| splicer | ...or it could be as a friend once put it that "women are evil in it's purest form" | 01:17 |
| katsmeow-afk | <cough> | 01:20 |
| splicer | (present company excluded of course) | 01:21 |
| katsmeow-afk | your friend still wrote off 50% of the human population on the planet | 01:21 |
| splicer | he had encountered a specimen that made a big impression | 01:22 |
| * katsmeow-afk nods | 01:23 | |
| fenn | splicer: no actually she died | 01:26 |
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| kanzure | http://adl.serveftp.org/~bryan/screenshots/2009-10-28-captcha-breaker.png | 09:28 |
| kanzure | not sure what to do in these situations: http://adl.serveftp.org/~bryan/screenshots/2009-10-28-captcha-breaker-2.png | 09:38 |
| kanzure | best idea i can come up with is to have a NN detect when there are multiple letters present in a rectangle and request a new captcha | 09:39 |
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| kanzure | http://code.google.com/p/openmanufacturing/ ugh? | 10:13 |
| genehacker | why are you trying to break captcha's? | 10:42 |
| genehacker | are you perhaps trying to start a spam empire? | 10:43 |
| kanzure | it's because i can't read them | 10:49 |
| genehacker | why can't you read them? | 10:53 |
| genehacker | anyway I think a program that could read graphs would be much more useful | 10:54 |
| kanzure | have you seen these captchas? they are getting harder and harder to read | 11:00 |
| genehacker | oh | 11:00 |
| kanzure | look at the captcha on this page: http://random.irb.hr/signup.php | 11:00 |
| genehacker | what website are those captcha's from | 11:00 |
| kanzure | the captcha in my screenshot is a simulation of phpBB 3.0.5's captchas | 11:01 |
| kanzure | phpBB 3.0.5 has a script to generate captchas so instead of querying an active forum installation, | 11:01 |
| kanzure | i took the script out of it and wrapped it into my own code | 11:01 |
| genehacker | http://tservice.net.ru/~s0mbre/gallery/mailru_captcha_all.jpg | 11:02 |
| genehacker | make a program that solves these and you win the internet | 11:03 |
| kanzure | why's that | 11:03 |
| kanzure | not too hard: there seems to always be two horizontal lines | 11:03 |
| kanzure | when they intersect a vertical line, don't remove the horizontal line | 11:03 |
| genehacker | they aren't always horizontal | 11:04 |
| kanzure | (er, the pixels from the horizontal line) | 11:04 |
| kanzure | what's so hard about this | 11:04 |
| genehacker | figuring out what a line is | 11:04 |
| genehacker | and what's a letter | 11:05 |
| kanzure | the lines always start at the lef | 11:05 |
| kanzure | *left | 11:05 |
| kanzure | (or the right) | 11:05 |
| kanzure | isn't this like a day-1 programming class problem? | 11:05 |
| genehacker | http://blogs.zdnet.com/security/?p=1232 | 11:05 |
| kanzure | the part i'm stuck on is whether or not to resize the individual letters, or if i should construct some sort of feature vector, before i dump it into the neural network | 11:07 |
| kanzure | yeah even here this guy uses a resize method: http://code.google.com/p/breaking-captcha/source/browse/src/GuessCaptcha.cpp | 11:09 |
| genehacker | http://goldbach.cse.psu.edu/s/captcha/ | 11:09 |
| kanzure | "deprecated, boo go away" well nevermind | 11:09 |
| genehacker | woo, NASA's new ares rocket took off | 11:12 |
| genehacker | anyway pattern recognition is supposed to be a major compsci problem | 11:18 |
| kanzure | captcha breaking is far from a major computer science problem | 11:20 |
| genehacker | then what's the point of a captcha if computers can break them? | 11:20 |
| kanzure | :) | 11:21 |
| genehacker | I don't see much practical use for captcha cracking | 11:21 |
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| genehacker2 | since you are doing some pattern recognition work, do you know if there are any good programs for recognizing humans? | 12:32 |
| genehacker2 | or even better making a UAV not hit trees | 12:33 |
| genehacker2 | http://www.vextec.com/news/news_2009.09.16.htm | 12:59 |
| genehacker2 | ybit remember that software I was talking about? | 12:59 |
| genehacker2 | well I found it | 12:59 |
| kanzure | there are programs that recognize faces, if that's what you mean | 12:59 |
| genehacker2 | argh... | 13:00 |
| genehacker2 | they don't say how it works | 13:00 |
| genehacker2 | I know, let's get the university to buy that software for us! | 13:00 |
| kanzure | why not just go download opencv | 13:03 |
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| fenn | why bother automating with advertisemets like this: "captcha typing teams for 24/7 ready. Rate $1.25 for 1K, up to 100K captchas per day" | 14:17 |
| fenn | maybe i should hire indians to be my spam filter | 14:21 |
| fenn | hah "ai seduces ignorant humans to evade captchas" | 14:23 |
| fenn | these news stories are starting to sound srsly sf | 14:24 |
| fenn | i love that they named it 'melissa' | 14:24 |
| fenn | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melissa_(computer_worm) | 14:29 |
| fenn | (the original, not the captcha breaker) | 14:29 |
| kanzure | fenn: mitch pryor is looking for emc people to make larry page a controller for his two-arm coffee-making robot in his kitchen (well, it's at pickle, but larry wants it in his kitchen) | 14:54 |
| ybit | skdb made it to MAKE :) | 14:56 |
| ybit | http://elementsofhumanity.com/#/video/entry/25/ :: the video clip of the diybio.org site for a split-second shows 'skdb' :) | 14:59 |
| kanzure | i find it inappropriate that "mackenzie cowell" is "the human element" | 15:13 |
| kanzure | worst ad campaign ever | 15:13 |
| fenn | this reminds me of the evil hacker's pasocon from chobits http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejROvUC-gWU | 15:18 |
| kanzure | i like receiving emails from the pidgin development list | 15:25 |
| kanzure | very often students in college come on the list and ask which bugs they can work on, for a class project, etc. | 15:26 |
| kanzure | anyway nice to see something going right | 15:26 |
| kanzure | matt suggests voronoi path planning for captcha breaking | 15:26 |
| kanzure | http://home.scarlet.be/zoetrope/voronoi/index.htm | 15:27 |
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| fenn | for some reason i read 'mitch pryor' as 'mitch kapor' | 15:32 |
| fenn | that had me confused for about a half hour | 15:32 |
| kanzure | lotus doesn't care for you either | 15:33 |
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| fenn | kapor ran away from lotus after it mutated into a corporate giant | 15:34 |
| fenn | (and then founded the EFF) | 15:34 |
| fenn | he's a nice guy | 15:34 |
| kanzure | nice of him | 15:34 |
| kanzure | so apparently fenn's mind reading apparatus isn't limited by geographical distance? | 15:34 |
| fenn | um. no, it isn't. the coincidence density function simply favors colocality | 15:35 |
| * kanzure hasn't been plotting coincidence density | 15:36 | |
| fenn | one dataset to rule them all | 15:36 |
| fenn | one schema to bind them | 15:36 |
| kanzure | matt wants me to make a "super translator" for gxml, sysml, yaml, functionCAD, .repo, etc. :/ | 15:37 |
| kanzure | http://code.google.com/p/openmanufacturing/ | 15:39 |
| fenn | is there any code there? | 15:39 |
| kanzure | no | 15:39 |
| kanzure | i don't know why paul hates skdb | 15:39 |
| kanzure | there's some code here though: http://code.google.com/p/openvirgle/ | 15:43 |
| kanzure | btw i more or less have a "clean slate" for any paper to be written with matt | 15:49 |
| kanzure | can anyone think of anything paper worthy? | 15:49 |
| -!- Irssi: #hplusroadmap: Total of 25 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 25 normal] | 15:49 | |
| fenn | just about anything you can think of, by the looks of it | 15:54 |
| fenn | representing soap-opera plots with social network graph grammar rules | 15:54 |
| kanzure | have we done that? | 15:56 |
| fenn | those little humanoid robots are exactly the sort of fiddly plastic crap that reprap would be good at making | 15:56 |
| fenn | minus gears and electronics of course | 15:56 |
| kanzure | sorry did i drop some packets? | 15:57 |
| fenn | we're logged in to the same server | 15:57 |
| kanzure | so when did we do soap-opera plots? | 15:57 |
| kanzure | and what does this have to do with little humanoid robots? | 15:57 |
| fenn | oh sorry i'm still stuck on http://file.mujaki.blog.shinobi.jp/cw_090921.JPG | 15:59 |
| fenn | (from http://clockwork.shikisokuzekuu.net/ but it's getting pounded) | 16:00 |
| CIA-23 | skdb: kanzure * r a3c5d2d /thirdparty/graphsynth.py: partial xml reader for graphsynth.py Graph class | 16:00 |
| CIA-23 | skdb: kanzure * r 89f60b6 / (22 files in 6 dirs): web development stuff needs to be under a repository | 16:00 |
| fenn | and i'm reading the book "makers" which incidentally was released for free today file:///home/fenn/book/Cory_Doctorow_-_Makers.html | 16:01 |
| fenn | whoops | 16:01 |
| fenn | well i'm sure anyone can find it if they try | 16:01 |
| fenn | i do sort of wonder what sort of social institutions must be in place in order for one guy to manufacture something like this http://www.geekalerts.com/u/manga-robot.jpg | 16:16 |
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| kanzure | when your most popular pop star is named "lin minmay", things become possible | 17:11 |
| ybit | "A method for promoting momentum" john christie | 17:22 |
| ybit | and the book 'disciplined minds' that paul keeps talking about, i'd like to take a look at both | 17:22 |
| ybit | d.minds is non-existant on the interwebs it seems | 17:23 |
| kanzure | fenn: ybit has been meaning to ask you about omnifab i think | 17:23 |
| ybit | i think i did last night when i was sleep deprived | 17:24 |
| ybit | hadn't heard back, but that's okay | 17:24 |
| ybit | think the only thing i wanted to know is if you two would be willing to change the name of skdb to omnifab... since omni = all, and skdb is about gathering all the engineering knowledge, it kind of makes sense.. but i'm fine if it doesn't | 17:25 |
| * ybit naps before diving into code | 17:26 | |
| ybit | well, the questions i asked last night were related to the video | 17:47 |
| * ybit had some lucid dreams last night, something about trazodone and ritalin that causes this, i have them everytime i take the stuff | 17:48 | |
| ybit | i can still recall the flippin awesome dream scenarios | 17:48 |
| ybit | it was pretty cool, i was in what seemed like the future and there were these super people who able to change into their transformer state whenever they wanted. and there was a really idea of an elevator | 17:49 |
| ybit | the only thing missing from it being an elevator was doors | 17:50 |
| * ybit was about 100 stories up on some platform.. the guy was demonstrating it, but was terribly wicked | 17:50 | |
| ybit | the idea was that you jumped where expected the elevator to be and suddenly a cloud like object would zoom at nearly the speed of light to where expected it to be, then it would just as quickly take you to your destination | 17:52 |
| kanzure | you're either missing words or you just suck | 17:52 |
| kanzure | "to where expected it to be" | 17:53 |
| ybit | yeah yeah | 17:53 |
| ybit | "you" is missing twice | 17:53 |
| ybit | no matter where you jumped it would immediately recognize where you were going and allow for a soft landing... this is all well and good until you realize that if the operator didn't like you.. he would allow you to just fall and not activate this cloud to zoom upward and catch you :P | 17:53 |
| ybit | i also remember last time i was on this stuff, my face was being beaten with some metal object by what looked like 'sting' from wwf/e | 17:54 |
| ybit | anywho, good sleep, over 12.5 hours of it, and the only reason i got up was because i knew i had to leave in 5 mins for work | 17:55 |
| ybit | so next time, maybe i won't take as much and i won't fill up the channel with nonsense :) | 17:55 |
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| fenn | so he just wants to change the name, is that all? | 18:03 |
| fenn | (to omnifab) | 18:04 |
| kanzure | tbh i don't know about name changing | 18:04 |
| kanzure | (but i'm certainly ok with omnifab.org existing or possibly being the name of the business i was hoping to do) | 18:05 |
| fenn | i never liked the name skb anyway | 18:05 |
| kanzure | did i come up with it? | 18:05 |
| fenn | yeah | 18:05 |
| kanzure | huh | 18:05 |
| kanzure | i was sorta blaming it on you | 18:05 |
| fenn | no i was calling it 'autogenix' remember? | 18:05 |
| kanzure | for some reason we stopped that? | 18:05 |
| fenn | autogenix was the distribution name, i guess | 18:06 |
| kanzure | names names names | 18:06 |
| fenn | yeah :\ | 18:06 |
| kanzure | i wonder if i can somehow avoid null terminating the name of any child i might one day have | 18:07 |
| kanzure | <-- too much C programming? | 18:07 |
| kanzure | anyway | 18:07 |
| kanzure | do we want to rename skdb? the only reason i'm slightly against this is because (even with grep) it's a pain in the neck | 18:07 |
| fenn | nobody looks at the code anyway :P | 18:08 |
| kanzure | i wish you were joking | 18:08 |
| fenn | a massive sed isn't very hard | 18:08 |
| kanzure | how do you make sed avoid .git/ ? | 18:09 |
| fenn | one way you could do it is backup the .git dir first | 18:09 |
| kanzure | so you prefer omnifab? | 18:11 |
| fenn | i'm biased; after reading 'skdb' millions of times over the last year | 18:12 |
| kanzure | i don't know which way you are biased | 18:12 |
| fenn | toward not changing | 18:12 |
| kanzure | i guess even gaim changed its name. although that was over a legal matter | 18:13 |
| kanzure | ybit: it'd be hot if you let me try using omnifab as the business name/front for skdb :) | 18:14 |
| fenn | omnifab.com is a company.. hm. well whatever | 18:14 |
| kanzure | precision sheet metal fabrication | 18:15 |
| kanzure | not terrible | 18:15 |
| kanzure | no photos? hmph | 18:15 |
| ybit | link, link please | 18:18 |
| kanzure | http://omnifab.com/ | 18:18 |
| genehacker | how about we change the name everyday to confuse people | 18:18 |
| ybit | oh | 18:18 |
| kanzure | genehacker: on wednesdays it will be called, "flying spaghetti soup" | 18:18 |
| genehacker | exactly | 18:20 |
| genehacker | also carbon fiber is hard to assemble by hand | 18:21 |
| genehacker | also it's quite awesome, argh, why does the military have to make it so expensive.... | 18:21 |
| ybit | there are no trademarks for omnifab | 18:23 |
| ybit | http://www.omnifabllc.com/ | 18:23 |
| ybit | http://omnifabinc.com/ | 18:23 |
| ybit | seems the company owns those as well | 18:23 |
| ybit | or maybe not, they all seem to be in diff locations | 18:23 |
| ybit | either way, our product is different | 18:24 |
| genehacker | there are no trademarks for omnifab? | 18:24 |
| genehacker | are you fucking kidding me? | 18:24 |
| genehacker | I don't believe it | 18:24 |
| genehacker | how could such an awesome name go unused | 18:25 |
| ybit | .. | 18:25 |
| ybit | genehacker: did you see http://omnifab.org/index.html | 18:25 |
| fenn | well i guess that's a vote in favor | 18:26 |
| kanzure | we're voting? | 18:26 |
| kanzure | i thought keeping the names separate was fine? | 18:26 |
| fenn | we're playing duck duck goose | 18:26 |
| kanzure | quack | 18:27 |
| fenn | quack | 18:27 |
| * kanzure shifts his eyes nervously | 18:27 | |
| ybit | http://www.omnifabllc.com/images/trademark.gif | 18:27 |
| * fenn wonders what noise geese make | 18:27 | |
| kanzure | squawk? | 18:27 |
| ybit | that's too much like what we are doing :| | 18:27 |
| fenn | so the monster sweet potatoes are more starchy than sweet | 18:28 |
| ybit | :P | 18:28 |
| fenn | if anyone was wondering... (i bought a five pound potato the other day) | 18:28 |
| kanzure | ybit: omnifab layout has been added to skdb | 18:34 |
| kanzure | i was trying to remember how to do pure CSS gradients but i forget | 18:34 |
| kanzure | can't be "web2.0" without a gradient | 18:34 |
| * katsmeow-afk heard bird sounds | 18:35 | |
| ybit | kanzure: did you see http://ybit.ath.cx/omnifab/images/bar2_120.png ? | 18:37 |
| ybit | can't recall if i sent you that link | 18:37 |
| katsmeow-afk | http://www.google.com/search?q=css+gradient | 18:37 |
| ybit | ? | 18:38 |
| kanzure | what's the point of this image? | 18:38 |
| ybit | it was going to be the navigation bar color | 18:38 |
| ybit | katsmeow-afk: i realize it isn't two colors | 18:38 |
| ybit | or multiple colors* | 18:39 |
| ybit | http://ybit.ath.cx/omnifab/styles/screen.css | 18:39 |
| ybit | not sure why index.html fails to read my mind successfully | 18:39 |
| kanzure | you should use the code in the repository | 18:39 |
| kanzure | i basically copied most of what you had | 18:40 |
| kanzure | except simplified it and removed some absolutisms and cruft that inevitably builds up with CSS | 18:40 |
| kanzure | with CSS it's more of a guessing game if something is going to work or not | 18:40 |
| kanzure | so you end up with lots of needless attributes that have to be flushed out every once in a while | 18:40 |
| ybit | copy clients/templates/IndexTemplate.tmpl => web/styles/speech.css | 18:40 |
| kanzure | nope that's a lie | 18:41 |
| ybit | did you actually make these css files, /me checks | 18:41 |
| kanzure | i just did "touch" | 18:41 |
| kanzure | and since IndexTemplate was blank, it figured it was the same thing | 18:41 |
| kanzure | anyway, IndexTemplate should have something new in it | 18:41 |
| kanzure | IndexTemplate.tmpl i mean | 18:41 |
| ybit | heath@togetic:~/projects/skdb/web/templates$ file IndexTemplate.tmpl | 18:42 |
| ybit | IndexTemplate.tmpl: empty | 18:42 |
| kanzure | blahhh? | 18:42 |
| ybit | blahhh. | 18:42 |
| CIA-23 | skdb: kanzure * r 2d10936 /web/templates/IndexTemplate.tmpl: index template | 18:42 |
| kanzure | that's right, don't move and rewrite at the same time | 18:42 |
| ybit | well that saves me some time tonight | 18:43 |
| kanzure | be sure to run: | 18:43 |
| kanzure | cheetah compile IndexTemplate | 18:43 |
| kanzure | although i think web.py does that for you now :) | 18:43 |
| ybit | Cheetah * | 18:43 |
| kanzure | ? | 18:43 |
| ybit | stupid caps sensitivity | 18:44 |
| ybit | see the following for an example | 18:44 |
| ybit | >>> import cheetah | 18:44 |
| ybit | Traceback (most recent call last): File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module> | 18:44 |
| ybit | ImportError: No module named cheetah | 18:44 |
| ybit | >>> import Cheetah | 18:44 |
| ybit | >>> | 18:44 |
| kanzure | oh was i doing it wrong? | 18:45 |
| kanzure | no i seem to say from Cheetah.Template import Template | 18:45 |
| kanzure | cheetah has command line utilities, is what i was referring to | 18:45 |
| ybit | you weren't, i was just correcting 18:43 < kanzure> cheetah compile IndexTemplate | 18:45 |
| ybit | oh | 18:45 |
| kanzure | no | 18:45 |
| kanzure | :) | 18:45 |
| ybit | :P | 18:45 |
| ybit | cheetah-compile | 18:46 |
| kanzure | no | 18:46 |
| kanzure | cheetah compile | 18:46 |
| ybit | grr | 18:46 |
| ybit | i have cheetah-compile | 18:46 |
| ybit | $ cheetah-compile IndexTemplate.tmpl | 18:47 |
| ybit | Compiling IndexTemplate.tmpl -> IndexTemplate.py | 18:47 |
| ybit | see it worked | 18:47 |
| ybit | anywho | 18:47 |
| katsmeow-afk | Optimizing the design of mechanical components | 18:47 |
| katsmeow-afk | for reliability and cost | 18:47 |
| ybit | ? | 18:47 |
| kanzure | sounds like one of matt's papers | 18:48 |
| katsmeow-afk | Robert Tryon*, Animesh Dey* and | 18:48 |
| katsmeow-afk | Sankaran Mahadevan{ | 18:48 |
| katsmeow-afk | *VEXTEC Corporation, Brentwood, TN, USA. | 18:48 |
| katsmeow-afk | {Vanderbilt University, Nashville, TN, USA. | 18:48 |
| ybit | my previous hometown | 18:49 |
| katsmeow-afk | http://www.vextec.com/images/_downloads/pdf_Cost_Reliability_Optimization.pdf | 18:50 |
| katsmeow-afk | if it helps design stuff that will stay together | 18:50 |
| katsmeow-afk | it gets all calculussie | 18:51 |
| katsmeow-afk | not true: The only other option to change the vibratory characteristics is to | 18:53 |
| katsmeow-afk | change the frequency of the flow disturbance. This usually requires a fundamental | 18:53 |
| katsmeow-afk | change in the entire system. | 18:53 |
| katsmeow-afk | you can do interesting things by porting off some high pressure fromt he engine and directing it to the airflow over the or under the wing, as needed | 18:54 |
| katsmeow-afk | thephysical wing remains unchanged, but thefuild dynamics atthe surface have been changed byt he injected air | 18:55 |
| katsmeow-afk | dog, i am tired | 18:55 |
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| genehacker | that vextec stuff is amazing | 19:13 |
| genehacker | they're doing what we thought was impossible | 19:13 |
| genehacker | predicting metal fatigue, how accurately I don't know | 19:14 |
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| ybit | first four suggestions from google for finishing the phrase 'how-to': tie a tie', 'kiss', 'get pregnant', 'lose weight' | 19:25 |
| ybit | was looking for howstuffworks | 19:26 |
| ybit | and indeed it was on the list | 19:26 |
| drazak | kanzure: your job is to make me a motor assisted kickwheel for when I come to texas | 19:27 |
| kanzure | please don't come here | 19:28 |
| drazak | oi? | 19:28 |
| kanzure | :p | 19:28 |
| drazak | 3 weeks ago you were inviting me | 19:28 |
| kanzure | oh, are you coming now? | 19:28 |
| kanzure | i can't keep track | 19:29 |
| drazak | for college probably | 19:29 |
| kanzure | i thought i said don't come to texas for uni? | 19:29 |
| drazak | probably rice for uni | 19:29 |
| drazak | and then mit for grad school | 19:29 |
| drazak | orsome shit like that | 19:29 |
| kanzure | yeah yeah, everyone says that | 19:29 |
| ybit | 19:29 < drazak> and then mit for grad school | 19:29 |
| drazak | anyway | 19:29 |
| ybit | hehe, sounds like me when i was in high school | 19:30 |
| drazak | your job is to make me a kickwheel that I can also use a motor on | 19:30 |
| drazak | ac motor | 19:30 |
| kanzure | for pottery? | 19:30 |
| katsmeow-afk | manhole cover from the street outside? | 19:30 |
| drazak | yes | 19:30 |
| drazak | I love kickwheels over electric wheels | 19:31 |
| drazak | but more than 9lbs of clay and you're fucked on a kickwheel | 19:31 |
| drazak | almost continually kicking a 150lb disk of cement for 10 minutes | 19:31 |
| drazak | can't imagine where that would get tiring | 19:32 |
| * drazak eyerolls | 19:32 | |
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| drazak | some have a motor on a lever that by moving your foot down on the lever it moves the motor down, aka a class 3 lever, I think | 19:33 |
| * ybit was about to ask for the initial tutorial on making a screw if we should include making metal rods as well, but it may just be easier to walk a user through creating lego like structures using some type of rapid prototyping machine | 19:34 | |
| drazak | if you wonder why I say to make one, it's because they cost like a grand | 19:34 |
| katsmeow-afk | a pottry turntable?! | 19:35 |
| drazak | a potters wheel costs like a grand | 19:35 |
| katsmeow-afk | why? | 19:37 |
| drazak | dunno | 19:37 |
| genehacker | kanzure you haven't had any real engineering classes yet | 19:37 |
| kanzure | ybit: i think legos are a good example of when you don't want to make stuff | 19:37 |
| kanzure | genehacker: nope. | 19:37 |
| kanzure | ybit: $0.01/brick over teh webs | 19:38 |
| * katsmeow-afk goes for a nap | 19:38 | |
| kanzure | katsmeow-afk: kat nap? | 19:38 |
| katsmeow-afk | korrect :-) | 19:38 |
| kanzure | are you a kde-abuser? | 19:38 |
| katsmeow-afk | nope | 19:38 |
| ybit | a klindows klover? | 19:38 |
| genehacker | anyway drazak that seems simple enough for you to make | 19:38 |
| katsmeow-afk | yeas, i confess to pulling ubuntu off 2 puters and installing winxp onto them | 19:38 |
| drazak | guess it's hard to make a flat piece of cement and a attach it to a rod of metal, and then to a dish of steel, then suspend it all on bearings | 19:39 |
| genehacker | also kanzure, so you want to make piezoelectric stuff right? | 19:39 |
| katsmeow-afk | it was a productivity issue, learning curves, etc | 19:39 |
| ybit | poor machines | 19:39 |
| katsmeow-afk | i saved one boot hd, prolly won'thelp any | 19:39 |
| kanzure | genehacker: i wouldn't mind | 19:39 |
| ybit | 19:37 < kanzure> ybit: i think legos are a good example of when you don't want to make stuff | 19:40 |
| ybit | eh, clarify please | 19:40 |
| genehacker | then get a car jack | 19:40 |
| kanzure | ybit: they are cheap to buy | 19:40 |
| genehacker | a hydraulic one | 19:40 |
| kanzure | well, when you buy them used | 19:40 |
| genehacker | piezoelectric materials can be made by powder pressing | 19:41 |
| ybit | http://www.yankodesign.com/images/design_news/2007/11/22/switch_me.jpg | 19:41 |
| ybit | so are screws, it's either or screws or legos if we are to demonstrate a working example of skdb | 19:42 |
| ybit | minus first instance of 'or' | 19:42 |
| genehacker | oh wait, you'd probably need a furnace too | 19:42 |
| ybit | so which is it? | 19:42 |
| genehacker | a furnace and a heat resistant jack | 19:42 |
| kanzure | there is no working example.. | 19:42 |
| ybit | oh but there will be | 19:43 |
| ybit | so which one :) | 19:43 |
| drazak | well a kiln would be nice too kanzure, but I bet you can't make something that gets 2600F | 19:43 |
| kanzure | no because you can only go too far down the rabbit hole before you'll find something fenn or i haven't implemented | 19:43 |
| kanzure | like cold rolling | 19:43 |
| fenn | ybit: re: yankodesign.com did you get there from eric's post i forwarded to OM? | 19:44 |
| ybit | fenn: yeah i did | 19:44 |
| kanzure | omamma | 19:44 |
| genehacker | how about lego made from refractories? | 19:44 |
| fenn | lego has to be flexible to stick together | 19:44 |
| fenn | transparent PETE would be cool though | 19:45 |
| genehacker | water cooled lego covered in refractories? | 19:45 |
| ybit | and the futuristic audio car on yanko is sexy | 19:45 |
| ybit | aldi* | 19:45 |
| fenn | the one with no wheels? | 19:45 |
| ybit | haha, yep | 19:45 |
| genehacker | huh? | 19:45 |
| genehacker | what are you talking about? | 19:45 |
| fenn | yeah that just about sums up yankodesign | 19:45 |
| ybit | yankodesign.com | 19:45 |
| ybit | scroll downward for car with wheels that don't turn | 19:46 |
| fenn | i dont see any wheels at all | 19:46 |
| ybit | they are there though is what it says | 19:46 |
| genehacker | hmmm.... | 19:46 |
| genehacker | that spiral can doesn't seem like such a good idea | 19:46 |
| genehacker | to me | 19:46 |
| ybit | yeah, looks like a lawsuit waiting to happen | 19:47 |
| genehacker | no | 19:47 |
| genehacker | I'm more worried about forming it | 19:47 |
| genehacker | and the fact that it's a pressure vessel | 19:47 |
| genehacker | also where's the suspension on that car? | 19:48 |
| fenn | i hope cars of the future don't have steering wheels | 19:48 |
| kanzure | and people | 19:48 |
| kanzure | and combustion engines | 19:48 |
| fenn | and people? the whole point is to move people around | 19:48 |
| kanzure | oh, uhh | 19:48 |
| ybit | :) | 19:48 |
| fenn | you misanthrope | 19:48 |
| kanzure | get off my lawn | 19:48 |
| genehacker | I hope the car of the future is a space car | 19:48 |
| kanzure | with lasers! | 19:48 |
| kanzure | (and people) | 19:49 |
| ybit | my only request is that it has an ejection seat in case the damn ai fscks up | 19:49 |
| genehacker | that can fly from colony to space colony or even mars with a megawatt vasimir | 19:49 |
| fenn | it looks like an apple computer case to me | 19:49 |
| ybit | in that case a module to carry to my next destination after being ejected | 19:49 |
| kanzure | ybit: so a matrioshka vehicle? | 19:49 |
| genehacker | if your car has an ejection seat what happens if you eject in a tunnel? | 19:49 |
| genehacker | I know, just like one of those things from the sonic games | 19:50 |
| ybit | matryoshka, get it right! ;) | 19:50 |
| kanzure | never | 19:50 |
| fenn | 1MW isn't very much for space propulsion | 19:50 |
| genehacker | I know | 19:50 |
| ybit | not like one of the tradition ejection seats then | 19:51 |
| ybit | traditional* | 19:51 |
| ybit | legos or screws? | 19:51 |
| genehacker | but it still gets you to mars FAST | 19:51 |
| genehacker | screws | 19:51 |
| genehacker | screws are adjustable | 19:51 |
| ybit | well then you're fscked :P | 19:51 |
| fenn | genehacker: 55 meter square of solar panels = 1MW | 19:52 |
| genehacker | lego isn't fscking adjustable and it has lots of slop | 19:52 |
| ybit | fenn, kanzure .. | 19:52 |
| genehacker | yeah | 19:52 |
| genehacker | 55 meter square is a lot right? | 19:52 |
| fenn | no | 19:52 |
| ybit | genehacker: your opinion counts too, just curious what they think :) | 19:52 |
| ybit | my vote is with legos | 19:53 |
| fenn | ybit: please repeat the question, in summary | 19:53 |
| genehacker | my vote is with adjustiblocks | 19:53 |
| genehacker | adjustable blocks | 19:53 |
| ybit | for the first working example of skdb, do we want to demonstrate how to make screws or legos? fenn | 19:54 |
| fenn | legos i guess | 19:54 |
| fenn | we actually have cad models of those so it can be reprapped | 19:54 |
| ybit | yup | 19:54 |
| fenn | can't believe i spent a week trying to make a fucking helix | 19:55 |
| * fenn kicks opencascade | 19:55 | |
| kanzure | ow | 19:55 |
| genehacker | legos are made by injection molding | 19:55 |
| * ybit msgs timschmidt | 19:55 | |
| kanzure | maybe tim can get his michigan group to do it | 19:56 |
| genehacker | there is a machine on the 8th floor of ETC, the code is 7513 | 19:56 |
| ybit | kanzure: right | 19:56 |
| kanzure | genehacker: huh that's the same code for the 6th floor | 19:56 |
| genehacker | to the door | 19:56 |
| genehacker | really? | 19:56 |
| kanzure | or very close | 19:56 |
| fenn | someone's already reprapped lego blocks, even "parametric" supposedly but i couldn't figure out how that worked or what it even meant | 19:56 |
| genehacker | I forgot the code at the moment | 19:56 |
| genehacker | sweet | 19:56 |
| genehacker | but I could get it | 19:56 |
| genehacker | however, puting in another die could be a pain | 19:57 |
| fenn | 'a machine' == injection moulding machine? | 19:57 |
| genehacker | yeah | 19:57 |
| fenn | that's not gonna happen anyway | 19:57 |
| genehacker | an injection molding machine | 19:57 |
| fenn | making a mold is a pain in the ass | 19:57 |
| genehacker | yeah | 19:57 |
| genehacker | I know | 19:57 |
| fenn | i wouldnt know how to do the square corners except by EDM | 19:58 |
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| fenn | unless one of you brave soldiers can come up with how to do it, i'm going to say 3D printed is the only feasible option | 19:58 |
| genehacker | hmmmm... though if we could get a mold, we could probably use the machine, my processing professor encourages us to smash pennies with the rolling mill | 19:59 |
| genehacker | yeah | 19:59 |
| fenn | guess one could make a silicone rubber mould from an existing lego, but it would probably suck (and you hav to have a lego brick already) | 19:59 |
| genehacker | how about machining wax into the desired shape, then use that to make the silicone mold form | 20:00 |
| fenn | i like the screw example because there are lots of ways to do it, but that's not so good for writing a tutorial | 20:00 |
| genehacker | or possibly investment cast aluminum legos | 20:00 |
| ybit | tim says he would be glad to print up a lego brick | 20:02 |
| ybit | 19:53 <timschmidt> almost certainly | 20:03 |
| ybit | 19:53 <timschmidt> I've almost got my machine printing, and I would be glad to. | 20:03 |
| ybit | 19:53 <timschmidt> And I'm sure I could find other volunteers. | 20:03 |
| kanzure | i guess we'd have to ship them a linux box with pythonocc already working :p | 20:04 |
| kanzure | or just send them the files (yawn) | 20:04 |
| kanzure | what i'm hacking on: http://adl.serveftp.org/lab/repo-recover.py | 20:06 |
| ybit | http://ybit.ath.cx/cad/stepmodels/skdb_demo/ | 20:09 |
| ybit | i told time to take his pack | 20:09 |
| fenn | ybit: feel free to add more models.. it's a pretty easy process | 20:09 |
| fenn | there are only like 20 in step format though | 20:10 |
| ybit | actually if you go up one directory, there are more | 20:10 |
| genehacker | how does one add stuff to skdb, are there instructions on how to do so? | 20:10 |
| fenn | not really | 20:10 |
| genehacker | ok then | 20:11 |
| kanzure | copy pasta existing package, edit the hell out of it | 20:11 |
| fenn | a lot of the code hasn't been written yet | 20:11 |
| kanzure | ybit: probably not gear_pin1 | 20:11 |
| fenn | i'm not about to write a 'guide to writing code' | 20:11 |
| fenn | but eventually you should be just writing data files and maybe tweaking some existing code | 20:11 |
| genehacker | what if I want to make a new package or add a new cad model of surprise.step | 20:11 |
| kanzure | "look! we made a cylinder thingy!" | 20:11 |
| kanzure | genehacker: you drop the file into the folder | 20:11 |
| genehacker | ok | 20:12 |
| genehacker | that's it | 20:12 |
| kanzure | and then reference it where-ever you want (like in data.yaml) | 20:12 |
| kanzure | yep | 20:12 |
| genehacker | ok good | 20:12 |
| fenn | you know a 4x scale model lego set would be pretty funny | 20:12 |
| fenn | like duplo but not | 20:12 |
| kanzure | what about lego costumes? | 20:12 |
| fenn | oh god | 20:12 |
| fenn | i went as a lego brick once | 20:12 |
| kanzure | "ok stay put for the next 2 hr" | 20:12 |
| ybit | :P | 20:13 |
| kanzure | have them cycle/tag out :) | 20:13 |
| genehacker | how about even bigger legos than duplo? | 20:13 |
| ybit | i'm going as a lego book scanner this year ;) | 20:13 |
| genehacker | structural grade lego | 20:13 |
| fenn | yeah someone wanted to make concrete legos to build houses | 20:13 |
| ybit | i'll just read while everyone gets drunk ;) | 20:13 |
| kanzure | maybe not costumes | 20:13 |
| kanzure | but a large-scale set might be a better idea | 20:13 |
| kanzure | precision will not be as much of an issue | 20:14 |
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| kanzure | but it will not be compatible with normal legos :( | 20:14 |
| fenn | it's just hard to get enough detail on a reprap to make sure they stick together | 20:14 |
| genehacker | a large scale technic set would be interesting | 20:14 |
| kanzure | lego compatibility is probably important no? | 20:14 |
| ybit | bah, normal legos, schmormal schmegos | 20:14 |
| kanzure | schmenglish | 20:14 |
| genehacker | perhaps legos should be redesigned to fractalate | 20:14 |
| genehacker | all the way down | 20:15 |
| ybit | maybe departing from the legos is a good thing, ours are open source at least, and can be promoted that way, maybe they'll take off too | 20:16 |
| kanzure | why isn't there an "open source" lego yet? | 20:16 |
| ybit | about to be | 20:16 |
| kanzure | thousands of geekparents will totally dump cash on that | 20:16 |
| genehacker | sounds like makerbeam or whatever the heck it is | 20:16 |
| kanzure | especially if the price isn't artifically controlled by the dutch | 20:16 |
| kanzure | "anyone can make these bricks." | 20:17 |
| genehacker | dammit, there was this universal construction system I saw in a magazine awhile back that seems perfect to use | 20:17 |
| kanzure | no random harry potter brick bullshit either | 20:17 |
| genehacker | heh | 20:17 |
| kanzure | can we use the lego dimensions that fenn has already put into skdb? | 20:19 |
| ybit | are you asking for IP purposes [kanzure] | 20:20 |
| kanzure | yes | 20:21 |
| kanzure | wasn't the lego patent expired? | 20:21 |
| kanzure | http://www.boingboing.net/2005/11/17/judge-to-lego-your-p.html | 20:21 |
| ybit | oh goody | 20:23 |
| * ybit needs a list of parts made with repraps | 20:24 | |
| ybit | ..so far | 20:24 |
| ybit | huh, a door handle and a water filter | 20:25 |
| kanzure | there are a lot of parts that have been gooed, ybit | 20:25 |
| ybit | http://reprap.org/bin/view/Main/ItemsMade | 20:26 |
| ybit | can i has cad files? | 20:26 |
| kanzure | lots of stl files on thingiverse | 20:27 |
| ybit | "For a cornucopia of items that can be made in a RepRap, visit the Thingiverse Website, where the world's reprappers share designs. " | 20:27 |
| fenn | a lot of lego stuff is still under patent (design patents) | 20:28 |
| ybit | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lego_Group#Trademark_and_Patents | 20:29 |
| fenn | which is more or less like copyright | 20:29 |
| ybit | "Since the expiration of the last standing Lego patent in 1988, a number of companies have produced interlocking bricks that are similar to Lego bricks. ...One such competitor is Coko, manufactured by Chinese company Tianjin Coko Toy Co., Ltd. In 2002, Lego Group Swiss subsidiary Interlego AG sued the company for copyright infringement. A trial court found many Coko bricks to be infringing; Coko was ordered to cease manufacture of the infringing brick | 20:31 |
| ybit | Lego Group has attempted to trademark the "Lego Indicia", the studded appearance of the Lego brick, hoping to stop production of Mega Bloks. On May 24, 2002, the Federal Court of Canada dismissed the case, asserting the design is functional and therefore ineligible for trademark protection [4]. The Lego Group's appeal was dismissed by the Federal Court of Appeal on July 14, 2003 [5]. In October 2005, the Supreme Court ruled unanimously that "Trademark | 20:32 |
| kanzure | what if they aren't sold? | 20:32 |
| ybit | that last paragraph puts us in the clear | 20:32 |
| ybit | omniblocks :) | 20:32 |
| * ybit squats ;) | 20:33 | |
| fenn | i think it'd have to be "omniblox" to sufficiently enrage the japanese kids | 20:37 |
| fenn | squatting and dumping on peoples' ideas just seems to go together | 20:38 |
| ybit | google doesn't suggest 'blocks' when you type blox or vice-versa | 20:43 |
| ybit | it does however suggest 'omnibox' since it's included in their chrome browser | 20:44 |
| * ybit is curious to know why apache suddenly starting handling what nginx was handling | 20:46 | |
| ybit | e.g. apache took control of http://ybit.ath.cx/cad/stepmodels/ but http://ybit.ath.cx/cad | 20:46 |
| ybit | anyway, back to writing | 20:47 |
| genehacker | argh | 21:22 |
| genehacker | why the heck isn't my math working out | 21:23 |
| kanzure | fenn are you downloading something? | 21:49 |
| kanzure | or is it me? | 21:49 |
| fenn | it's me, sorry | 21:49 |
| kanzure | just making sure it's not my box becoming a zombie on a global zombienet | 21:49 |
| fenn | "you could just include a 'shop' link" -> what's the problem wit this again? | 21:49 |
| kanzure | is there a problem? | 21:50 |
| fenn | heh i was trying to torrent "zombi" by goblin | 21:50 |
| kanzure | use non-standard port please | 21:50 |
| fenn | ybit wants to add yet another name | 21:50 |
| ybit | what? | 21:50 |
| ybit | lol | 21:50 |
| fenn | omnifab | 21:50 |
| ybit | oh | 21:50 |
| kanzure | another name to omnifab? | 21:50 |
| ybit | yeah, i was thinking that's what could happen | 21:50 |
| ybit | no | 21:50 |
| ybit | re: add a shop link, 21:50 < ybit> yeah, i was thinking that's what could happen | 21:51 |
| ybit | kind of like a 'support what we're doing you lazy bastards' part of the site :) | 21:51 |
| kanzure | uh | 21:51 |
| ybit | ..not in those specific words ;) | 21:52 |
| kanzure | i feel like you haven't listened to me | 21:52 |
| kanzure | or maybe i haven't told you what i was originally thinking of for omnifab | 21:52 |
| kanzure | but i find that hard to believe | 21:52 |
| kanzure | so | 21:52 |
| genehacker | so this is odd | 21:52 |
| ybit | nope you haven't | 21:52 |
| kanzure | wtf | 21:52 |
| kanzure | jka;kjaja;jfafkak; | 21:52 |
| ybit | af;fak;jlsdfajkl;a | 21:52 |
| kanzure | some people are in fact lazy, yes | 21:52 |
| fenn | quack! | 21:52 |
| genehacker | my math looks like it works when a radian value is added to a degrees value | 21:52 |
| kanzure | in these cases, people don't want to apt-get a screw from cosmic wankery jism, | 21:52 |
| ybit | you told me that you are wanting to sell kits | 21:52 |
| ybit | and that's about it | 21:53 |
| kanzure | this analogy particular helps when you explain to people that "it's like an app store" (i always seem to be -_- etc. when saying that) | 21:53 |
| kanzure | so, right, "buy it now" links and such all over the place | 21:53 |
| ybit | good analogy | 21:53 |
| kanzure | but also tuning to user preferences like "i never want to go more than 3 levels deep" or something | 21:53 |
| kanzure | (deep into dependencies) | 21:53 |
| kanzure | but also charging for API calls that physically deliver the machine, part, kit to the user's door | 21:54 |
| kanzure | for instance some fablab might want to have a "buy room" where people go to select what they want on a computer screen | 21:54 |
| kanzure | and by clicking on the icon of what they want (maybe on a website), it charges their account and it's shipped to their door somehow | 21:54 |
| kanzure | i'm especially thinking of situations where you want to do this without human interaction, like ordering a thousand kits but not wanting to press "order" on each and every subcomponent | 21:55 |
| kanzure | i'm not sure how to distinguish between OEM parts and kit parts yet though | 21:55 |
| kanzure | i mean, kit parts are from OEMs | 21:55 |
| kanzure | *are OEMs | 21:55 |
| kanzure | but kits have more involved: extra documentation, instructions, parts, support, a fancy box (?) | 21:55 |
| kanzure | whereas a part, i would expect to just show up sorta | 21:55 |
| fenn | hum. why all the other stuff just for kits? | 21:56 |
| kanzure | other stuff? | 21:56 |
| fenn | isnt a kit just a package like anything else? | 21:56 |
| kanzure | yes | 21:56 |
| kanzure | but not to us | 21:56 |
| kanzure | because we have to do some extra work on it | 21:56 |
| kanzure | like physically put the parts in a box and ship it | 21:56 |
| fenn | i thought the idea was to sell copies of the package | 21:57 |
| kanzure | digital? | 21:57 |
| fenn | physical | 21:57 |
| kanzure | yes? | 21:57 |
| fenn | ok so why 'extra documentation, instructions, parts support, box 'etc | 21:57 |
| fenn | i'm not expecting more than ziploc bags | 21:57 |
| fenn | and a flat-rate box | 21:57 |
| kanzure | a kit might be a ziploc baggie with a flat-rate box and an extra CD or something | 21:57 |
| kanzure | whereas an OEM part might be just the ziploc baggie :) | 21:58 |
| kanzure | something like that | 21:58 |
| fenn | bleh whatever | 21:58 |
| kanzure | well then what's the point of calling it a kit? | 21:58 |
| kanzure | "here are some parts, good luck" | 21:58 |
| fenn | the instructions should be included with the package anyway | 21:58 |
| kanzure | yeah but apparently not everyone wants to actually use skdb | 21:58 |
| fenn | sfw | 21:58 |
| kanzure | think of this as an ignorance tax | 21:58 |
| fenn | if the packages suck then what's the point of doing anything at all? | 21:59 |
| kanzure | even if the package rules, people like paul still don't care apparently | 21:59 |
| fenn | well too bad for them | 21:59 |
| kanzure | i'm lost | 21:59 |
| kanzure | not everyone wants to install skdb | 21:59 |
| fenn | ok so back to the agenda | 21:59 |
| kanzure | therefore, selling kits is bad? | 21:59 |
| fenn | so, do you need a business name? | 22:00 |
| kanzure | i thought we are using omnifab? | 22:00 |
| fenn | need not want | 22:00 |
| fenn | ybit seems to think omnifab is just a name change | 22:00 |
| ybit | no i don't | 22:00 |
| kanzure | blargh? | 22:00 |
| kanzure | synapses crossed | 22:00 |
| fenn | ybit: then you're planning omnifab to be the commercial face of skdb? | 22:00 |
| fenn | (which i think is terrible in the first place, to separate them) | 22:01 |
| ybit | whoo, i feel like i'm not in that position to answer right now without speaking to Phreedom since he originally came up with the name. i'm willing to sale kits with omnifab | 22:01 |
| kanzure | uh | 22:01 |
| kanzure | i thought the whole reason i was investigating names was to figure out a commercial front name for skdb? | 22:01 |
| fenn | we control the skdb webpage whatever it will be called, so we can put buy buttons pointing to our paypal | 22:02 |
| kanzure | yeah, isn't that the idea | 22:02 |
| fenn | not taking advantage of that fact is dumb | 22:02 |
| ybit | i don't see what not | 22:02 |
| ybit | s/what/why | 22:02 |
| fenn | ok so if you go and add another website off in the matrix somewhere, who is going to look at it? | 22:02 |
| ybit | kanzure: it was the point of coming up with names | 22:02 |
| ybit | i don't understand fenn. | 22:03 |
| kanzure | fenn: don't worry about that, the good ol' bullshit/hype machine will take care of that | 22:03 |
| fenn | ybit: ok so get your story straight about what omnifab is supposed to be | 22:04 |
| fenn | and we can continue this later | 22:04 |
| kanzure | i wasn't aware that we weren't allowed to use omnifab.org | 22:04 |
| ybit | i don't see why omnifab can't have a purchase a kit place on it | 22:04 |
| kanzure | but apparently Phreedom has his fingers in everything? | 22:04 |
| kanzure | Phreedom: what are you doing here anyway? | 22:04 |
| kanzure | i mean, you hardly talk | 22:04 |
| fenn | i think it's like 4am russia time | 22:05 |
| ybit | 3am in the ukraine* | 22:05 |
| kanzure | prime time, then | 22:05 |
| kanzure | no excuses :) | 22:05 |
| ybit | :P | 22:05 |
| ybit | anyway, Phreedom and i had discussed omnifab being the software which allows users to create and share parts | 22:06 |
| kanzure | since when | 22:06 |
| ybit | ...a year ago? | 22:06 |
| kanzure | weren't you in here a year ago? | 22:06 |
| ybit | yup | 22:06 |
| fenn | was this before or after you learned of skdb? | 22:06 |
| ybit | about the same time really | 22:06 |
| fenn | hm | 22:06 |
| kanzure | hm | 22:06 |
| ybit | we were all thinking along the same lines | 22:06 |
| kanzure | shoot the mind reader! | 22:06 |
| * fenn shoots | 22:07 | |
| kanzure | wait, wait | 22:07 |
| kanzure | i'm the prime, i'm the prime | 22:07 |
| fenn | decepticon! | 22:07 |
| ybit | and i don't think there's a conflict in interest if omnifab is a place which promotes skdb and sales kits, because frankly right now, there isn't omnifab software | 22:07 |
| kanzure | ybit: i think you're stepping on toes here | 22:07 |
| kanzure | this is the problem with commercial operations anyway | 22:07 |
| fenn | yeah, add money and open source development goes to shit | 22:08 |
| ybit | right, i meant, phreedom and i haven't whipped up anything ourselves | 22:08 |
| kanzure | but for some reason he gets to control it? | 22:08 |
| ybit | his name idea, i just wanted to see what he thought | 22:08 |
| kanzure | fenn: maybe we should look into the pinkarmy coop model? | 22:08 |
| fenn | pinkarmy doesn't have a model | 22:08 |
| kanzure | besides the fact that they don't do anything | 22:08 |
| kanzure | co-op: people give you money | 22:08 |
| kanzure | or something | 22:08 |
| ybit | you give yourself money in a co-op | 22:09 |
| fenn | i used to think it might be something interesting, but he just sort of waved his hands aroudn the issue of actually doing stuff | 22:09 |
| kanzure | no but i'm talking about the membership system | 22:09 |
| * ybit wishes Phreedom would wake up, i really don't think he'll have a problem | 22:09 | |
| fenn | kanzure: i'm perfectly willing to put others' "buy it now" links up | 22:09 |
| kanzure | there's an actual legal idea there | 22:09 |
| kanzure | fenn: yeah but i don't want to do random work for a website that someone else owns or something | 22:09 |
| fenn | sorry what? a co-op is a type of legal entity? | 22:09 |
| kanzure | yeah | 22:09 |
| kanzure | yes it has a particular model that i'm not well versed in, but it didn't sound evil | 22:10 |
| ybit | and it works well | 22:10 |
| fenn | and how does it deal with 500 people in 126 different countries? | 22:10 |
| ybit | check out Emilia Romagna, they tend to do well even in recessions | 22:10 |
| fenn | i've only ever heard of corporations and sole proprietorships | 22:11 |
| ybit | and a large part of the business activity there is co-op | 22:11 |
| kanzure | i wonder if my grandmother would like to show up at tim's group meetings | 22:11 |
| kanzure | she lives in detroit | 22:11 |
| ybit | that's one cool grandma | 22:11 |
| fenn | you could have her snuggle in a camera/audio recorder | 22:11 |
| kanzure | no kidding | 22:11 |
| kanzure | gee thanks metafilter: http://ask.metafilter.com/82330/why-a-coop-business-model | 22:11 |
| ybit | dammit, my days have been mixed up, today was supposed to be wiki wednesday :| | 22:12 |
| ybit | when are we leaving for h+ summit, kanzure, fenn | 22:12 |
| ybit | which flight on friday? | 22:12 |
| ybit | i'm purchasing the ticket this friday | 22:12 |
| kanzure | umm | 22:12 |
| kanzure | are you arriving in austin ever? | 22:12 |
| * ybit doesn't want to wait around while prices get jacked higher | 22:13 | |
| ybit | thursday | 22:13 |
| fenn | which thursday? | 22:13 |
| ybit | the third | 22:13 |
| ybit | or something like that | 22:13 |
| kanzure | you wanted travelocity? | 22:13 |
| ybit | meh, straight from the airline, it's cheaper | 22:13 |
| ybit | southwest and american airlines had the same prices | 22:14 |
| ybit | @ $138 i believe | 22:14 |
| kanzure | what's the destination airport? | 22:15 |
| kanzure | JFA? | 22:15 |
| kanzure | john wayne | 22:15 |
| ybit | is that a choice? | 22:15 |
| kanzure | no | 22:15 |
| * ybit was going LAX | 22:15 | |
| ybit | +with | 22:15 |
| fenn | $138 is round trip? | 22:16 |
| ybit | one way | 22:17 |
| ybit | even if you specify multi-city, it's still $138 | 22:17 |
| fenn | what does multi-city mean? | 22:17 |
| kanzure | i'm getting $200 | 22:17 |
| ybit | ah, it was $134 not $138 | 22:19 |
| ybit | i'm getting $100 now o.O | 22:19 |
| ybit | i need to buy | 22:19 |
| ybit | that's damn cheap | 22:19 |
| ybit | southwest.com | 22:19 |
| ybit | this is from aus to lax | 22:19 |
| kanzure | southwest is giving me $100 too | 22:19 |
| ybit | and no plane changes if you do the 7:25 departure | 22:20 |
| fenn | i just get " We are currently unable to complete your request due to an undefined error." | 22:20 |
| kanzure | ok, let's depart at 1:20 pm | 22:20 |
| kanzure | ybit: you ok with that? there's a change in houston, but that doesn't suck much | 22:20 |
| kanzure | in particular flights 3151 and 2873 | 22:21 |
| ybit | http://ybit.ath.cx/images/2009-10-28-221524_1024x768_scrot.png fenn | 22:21 |
| ybit | hmm, let me look | 22:21 |
| fenn | what can i say, i'm a cheapass | 22:22 |
| kanzure | fenn: does that sound good then? i'm assuming you want to fly at the same time | 22:22 |
| ybit | kanzure: that's fine, but we may experience a slight delay with the plane change | 22:22 |
| fenn | sure | 22:23 |
| kanzure | fenn: can you manage to not experience an undefined error? | 22:23 |
| ybit | i'm guessing you two are fine with that | 22:23 |
| kanzure | 40min is nothing | 22:23 |
| kanzure | that's 15min walking, 5min anxiety attack, 20min sitting around doing nothing | 22:24 |
| ybit | alright, flight 3151 it is | 22:24 |
| * ybit purchases ticket now | 22:24 | |
| ybit | they didn't have these prices last time i checked | 22:24 |
| kanzure | hm they let me add a suffix to my name? CEO, JD, PhD, PharmD, .. can i select all? | 22:25 |
| ybit | wow, i'm getting $75 for a one way to austin o.O | 22:26 |
| kanzure | "lower fares may be available through DING!" | 22:28 |
| fenn | i hate websites | 22:29 |
| kanzure | i hate people | 22:29 |
| kanzure | together, we hate everything! | 22:29 |
| fenn | is it possible to buy a one-way ticket? | 22:30 |
| kanzure | yes | 22:31 |
| kanzure | do you need a computer? | 22:31 |
| bkero | You guys flying to Irvine? | 22:38 |
| bkero | Nice price! | 22:39 |
| bkero | That's cheaper than driving | 22:39 |
| fenn | ok done | 22:50 |
| kanzure | so what am i doing right now? | 22:52 |
| kanzure | no takers? really? | 23:05 |
| kanzure | aren't i supposed to be writing code for something | 23:05 |
| fenn | look at the todo list | 23:09 |
| fenn | see if anything strikes your fancy | 23:09 |
| fenn | if not, do the most awful boring thing on there (because otherwise nobody will ever do it) | 23:10 |
| kanzure | yes but should i start something new or go back to captcha breaking, repo_recover, stl2web, web.py, XHTML/CSS bullshit, skdb inventory representation, skdb ode screw joint stuff, dedicated server cloud thingy for CAD modeling, ruby wordnet library thing, graphsynth.py unit tests, mcmaster-carr scraper, .. | 23:11 |
| fenn | how the hell should i know | 23:11 |
| kanzure | well how do other people know? | 23:11 |
| fenn | they make gantt charts :) | 23:11 |
| kanzure | how does that help? | 23:12 |
| fenn | uh.. it doesnt | 23:12 |
| kanzure | hm | 23:12 |
| fenn | i'd like to see a CAD preview generator script | 23:12 |
| kanzure | i thought i showed you it | 23:12 |
| kanzure | iges2png, etc. | 23:13 |
| fenn | i thought it didn't work for some reason | 23:13 |
| kanzure | it works | 23:13 |
| fenn | so is there a way to store those images without having to re-render everytime someone looks at the page? | 23:13 |
| kanzure | yeah of course :) | 23:13 |
| kanzure | btw they should be rendered when the models are uploaded/updated, not at view-time | 23:14 |
| fenn | ok that makes sense | 23:14 |
| fenn | how do you know a model has been uploaded? | 23:14 |
| kanzure | last resort is hash checking, but i thought i made an "upload model" form a few days ago for this | 23:14 |
| fenn | but you will be getting stuff in via git too | 23:14 |
| kanzure | so when it goes through the system like this, it dumps it into dave's cloudthingr | 23:14 |
| fenn | boo hiss | 23:15 |
| kanzure | well it's better than blocking the process on the server | 23:15 |
| fenn | i dont know what that means | 23:15 |
| kanzure | well the problem is that it takes more than 10 seconds to generate the previews | 23:15 |
| kanzure | so if you have 10 models being uploaded at once, that's a problem | 23:15 |
| kanzure | but what if you offloaded that to never never land? | 23:16 |
| fenn | run a cron job? | 23:16 |
| kanzure | no | 23:16 |
| kanzure | even with a cron job it would still take the server's resources | 23:16 |
| fenn | what "cloud" server is going to have all the crap we need installed? | 23:16 |
| kanzure | have i showed you vmware yet? i was playing around with it the other day | 23:16 |
| kanzure | it turns out that you set up the box you want, as you want it, and that's that | 23:16 |
| kanzure | but i haven't investigated it completely | 23:17 |
| fenn | you know what, don't ever say "cloud" if you're actually trying to explain something | 23:17 |
| kanzure | they are running images of machines on other people's computers | 23:17 |
| fenn | unless it's about final fantasy 7 | 23:17 |
| kanzure | so anyway, i'm not a big cloud fan, but that's one option if things start slowing down | 23:17 |
| fenn | premature optimization | 23:17 |
| kanzure | ok then it definitely works for now :) | 23:18 |
| fenn | show me a webpage with an automatically rendered preview of each file in the package | 23:18 |
| fenn | based on the metadata i guess | 23:18 |
| kanzure | oh we still don't have a package view page yet do we? hm okay | 23:18 |
| fenn | also limit it to the first 5 files or something | 23:19 |
| fenn | also i dunno how you're going to deal with auto generated geometry | 23:19 |
| kanzure | now that i think about it you might be right about the problem. i haven't done any "smart" camera location settings | 23:19 |
| kanzure | auto generated geometry like.. screw helices? | 23:20 |
| fenn | yeah for all 9 bazillion screws | 23:20 |
| fenn | maybe preview should be on each part's page | 23:20 |
| ybit | "I just don't understand why | 23:21 |
| ybit | you don't just make an SKDB project at Google Groups and an SKDB discussion | 23:21 |
| ybit | list and ask people to join it? " | 23:21 |
| kanzure | he's annoying | 23:21 |
| ybit | there is skdb-support if you guys do want to go that route | 23:21 |
| kanzure | bullshit, we've invited him in here more than once | 23:21 |
| ybit | i had it in place as a mock-up for freefab.org | 23:21 |
| kanzure | and shown him the git repo | 23:21 |
| kanzure | he's just an ass or something :( | 23:21 |
| kanzure | no matter how many :) smiley faces :) he :) puts in his :) emails :-) | 23:21 |
| fenn | who are we talking about? | 23:23 |
| kanzure | paul wrote ybit's quote | 23:23 |
| fenn | ok so my mail is just slow | 23:23 |
| kanzure | it's from earlier today | 23:23 |
| fenn | oh hey it's a hijacked forwarded message heh | 23:25 |
| kanzure | we're your local thread hijacking agency, please standby | 23:27 |
| fenn | trim the bourgeois fat ruthelessly, comrades | 23:29 |
| fenn | wordnet was around in 1988? | 23:31 |
| fenn | 1985 even | 23:33 |
| fenn | hmm TortoiseGit | 23:37 |
| * kanzure nods | 23:37 | |
| ybit | http://nihilarchitect.net/labsr/svgend.svg | 23:38 |
| ybit | a webpage in svg, how cool | 23:38 |
| kanzure | that's sick | 23:38 |
| fenn | you mean totally awesome? | 23:38 |
| kanzure | yes, in the totally awesome way | 23:39 |
| ybit | no, as in 'dope' | 23:39 |
| fenn | i don't see any content though | 23:39 |
| ybit | i think it's just a mockup | 23:39 |
| fenn | oh weird | 23:39 |
| * ybit was afk | 23:40 | |
| fenn | it's using stylesheets? | 23:40 |
| * ybit purchased the ticket | 23:40 | |
| ybit | all 'open web standards' | 23:40 |
| kanzure | fenn: did you purchase the same flight? | 23:40 |
| fenn | 3151 | 23:40 |
| kanzure | cool. | 23:41 |
| ybit | javascript,css, svg xslt transhofrm | 23:41 |
| ybit | anyway, she's going to some dhtml flash stuff here soon :-\ | 23:42 |
| * ybit is concerned about http://www.omnifabllc.com/OmniFAB%20about%20us.html and us starting a business with the same name | 23:43 | |
| ybit | ...though.. there are two other omnifab businesses as well | 23:43 |
| ybit | the other two focus on sheet metal | 23:43 |
| kanzure | did you read about coops? | 23:43 |
| ybit | this one does it all, very much like my current employer except on a slightly larger scale (51000 sq ft and more employees i'm sure) | 23:44 |
| ybit | oh yeah, co-op | 23:44 |
| fenn | maybe you could call it lzybstrd.com | 23:44 |
| -!- genehacker2 [i=genehack@wireless-128-62-51-133.public.utexas.edu] has joined #hplusroadmap | 23:44 | |
| ybit | thought about it | 23:45 |
| ybit | fenn, do you see any reason to be concerned about omnifab llc? | 23:45 |
| ybit | kanzure doesn't mind it seems | 23:46 |
| kanzure | what do i know | 23:47 |
| ybit | right, kanzure, why don't you go form your own mailing list specifically for this skdb stuff, jeebus | 23:48 |
| kanzure | i'm so terrible | 23:48 |
| ybit | no :-) you're not ;) ;) :) | 23:49 |
| * ybit takes it to the bed | 23:49 | |
| kanzure | ? | 23:50 |
| ybit | a play on 'take it to the house' | 23:50 |
| -!- genehacker [i=genehack@wireless-128-62-51-133.public.utexas.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] | 23:54 | |
| genehacker2 | *bashes head against weird gear profile again | 23:57 |
| * genehacker2 *bashes head against weird gear profile again | 23:58 | |
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