| --- Day changed Mon Nov 09 2009 | ||
| ybit | blist | 00:10 |
|---|---|---|
| katsmeow | ? | 00:10 |
| ybit | i typed it in the wrong irssi windows | 00:10 |
| ybit | window* | 00:10 |
| ybit | chizu: which trevor hardcastle are you on facebook? befriend me, because i haven't a clue who you are or what you do http://facebook.com/heathmatlock | 00:15 |
| ybit | flamoot, are you really connected as root? | 00:17 |
| chizu | ybit: I don't use facebook. | 00:28 |
| bkero | ybit: pong | 00:30 |
| ybit | 1 packet transmitted, 1 received, 0% packet loss, time 8400s | 00:54 |
| ybit | chizu: oh, alright then | 00:54 |
| ybit | chizu: just went through the logs, you and bkero are both at osuosl, this is new to me | 00:57 |
| ybit | and chizu, you only talk when people need python help and ping you, heh | 00:57 |
| * ybit just sent an email to hod lipson asking for source from his 'towards a universal knowledge database for design automation' paper | 00:58 | |
| ybit | gn | 00:59 |
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| Utopiah | Open source enters the world of atoms: A statistical analysis of open design http://www.uic.edu/htbin/cgiwrap/bin/ojs/index.php/fm/article/view/2670 | 09:31 |
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| ybit2 | kanzure: i sent you an email, looks like good news. if you get a chance to respond to me through email, please do... or /query ybit | 11:35 |
| ybit2 | and sorry about the html crap or whatever gmail used, i realized this after i sent it | 11:36 |
| kanzure | very well | 11:36 |
| kanzure | ybit2: originally the idea was for synthesis, not sequencing | 11:40 |
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| kanzure | hm does anyone have a list of all wikipedia articles? without having to crawl http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:AllPages | 15:04 |
| ybit | not that i'm aware of | 15:16 |
| ybit | you could ask in #wikipedia | 15:17 |
| ybit | kanzure: what about focusing on both sequencing in synthesis? | 15:19 |
| ybit | 'welcome to site _blah_, are you interested in sequencing or synthesis?' | 15:19 |
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| kanzure | (325, 'in what state is it illegal to throw an old computer across the street at your neighbor') | 16:42 |
| xp_prg | I want to make my own microfluidic device, I have just completed the laser and Tomach milling class at the Tech Shop | 16:44 |
| xp_prg | I know I can laser etch into acrylic, I am curious how to put the pumps/valves in though | 16:44 |
| xp_prg | hello? | 16:46 |
| genehacker | that's not how microfluidic devices are made | 16:59 |
| genehacker | at the reynold's numbers microfluidic devices operate at, you can have valves with no moving parts | 16:59 |
| genehacker | actuated solely by pressure | 17:00 |
| genehacker | IE down there liquids tend to behave like syrup | 17:00 |
| genehacker | I | 17:02 |
| genehacker | try making a vortex valve before you make any other microfluidic element | 17:04 |
| kanzure | .deb packages of heekscad: http://yamato.hyte.de/packages/heeks/ | 17:10 |
| katsmeow-afk | kanzure, just dl wikipedia | 17:16 |
| kanzure | no thanks, i found something better | 17:27 |
| kanzure | http://dammit.lt/wikistats/ | 17:27 |
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| xp_prg | genehacker there are valves on a microfluidic device though | 18:31 |
| xp_prg | why can't you understand that? | 18:32 |
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| genehacker | yeah there are | 18:50 |
| genehacker | planar valves with no moving parts | 18:51 |
| genehacker | meaning these aren't your grand daddy's valves | 18:52 |
| xp_prg | how does a planar valve work? | 18:53 |
| genehacker | http://adl.serveftp.org/papers/MicrofluidicsHistoryTheoryandApplications.zip | 19:00 |
| genehacker | it's in there | 19:00 |
| genehacker | in the pressure driven section | 19:07 |
| genehacker | now this is cool | 19:10 |
| genehacker | http://www.rsc.org/delivery/_ArticleLinking/ArticleLinking.cfm?JournalCode=LC&Year=2009&ManuscriptID=b913253h&Iss=Advance_Article | 19:10 |
| genehacker | someone got the shrinky dink microfluidic technique to work | 19:10 |
| genehacker | IE they got them to shrink uniformly | 19:11 |
| xp_prg | genehacker is it feasible for me to make my own microfluidic device? | 19:17 |
| genehacker | a microfluidic device that does what? | 19:25 |
| xp_prg | fetch, execute, write instructions with fluids | 19:44 |
| genehacker | I'm confused | 19:55 |
| genehacker | are you trying to make a fluidic microprocessor | 19:56 |
| genehacker | it sounds like you're trying to make a microprocessor | 20:03 |
| xp_prg | yes I am | 20:07 |
| xp_prg | yes a fluidic microprocessor | 20:07 |
| genehacker | how small do you want to make it | 20:08 |
| genehacker | since you don't have photolithography equipment and I'm not sure if there are any fluidic logic gates that work at low reynolds number probably big | 20:10 |
| xp_prg | well I want to go as small as I can | 20:10 |
| xp_prg | but I don't have photolithography equipment or clean room | 20:10 |
| xp_prg | so am I screwed? | 20:11 |
| genehacker | you can make a fluidic microprocessor that isn't tiny | 20:13 |
| xp_prg | oh sweet | 20:18 |
| xp_prg | how? | 20:18 |
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| genehacker | well you'd first have to design the circuit | 20:32 |
| xp_prg | can I do it with a laser on acrylic somehow? | 20:32 |
| genehacker | yeah | 20:32 |
| genehacker | probably | 20:32 |
| xp_prg | what would I use for a pump and valve? | 20:32 |
| genehacker | you don't use valves | 20:32 |
| genehacker | you use fluidic amplifiers | 20:33 |
| xp_prg | how much are those? | 20:33 |
| genehacker | as much as it cost to cut them in acrylic | 20:33 |
| xp_prg | hmm... ok | 20:33 |
| xp_prg | I am confused what causes things to flow in the circuit | 20:34 |
| genehacker | as far as a pump is concerned depends on the fluid | 20:34 |
| xp_prg | what is the "pump" ? | 20:34 |
| genehacker | in what circuit | 20:34 |
| genehacker | it's a pump that provides a pressure differential | 20:34 |
| xp_prg | lets just say it is a circular mixing circuit with two inputs | 20:34 |
| genehacker | how many outputs? | 20:34 |
| xp_prg | 1 | 20:34 |
| genehacker | ok the fluids enter the 2 inputs then exit the output | 20:35 |
| xp_prg | ya | 20:35 |
| xp_prg | it has to mix around in the circular mixer area | 20:36 |
| xp_prg | which means you have to close the flow from the out to the in and force it to circle around | 20:36 |
| genehacker | I don't know what type of fluidic mixer you're talking about | 20:36 |
| xp_prg | well how do you propose mixing two things together? | 20:37 |
| genehacker | at what reynolds number? | 20:37 |
| xp_prg | what is a reynolds number? :( | 20:37 |
| genehacker | is the mixer small or big? | 20:38 |
| xp_prg | well it is big enough so I can make it with acrylic and don't need a clean room and stuff | 20:38 |
| xp_prg | does that answer the question? | 20:39 |
| genehacker | then the reynolds number is probably high enough that you could inject two fluids into a channel and they'd mix themselves(given that the fluids aren't sufficiently viscous) | 20:39 |
| genehacker | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reynolds_number | 20:40 |
| xp_prg | no I want to do it the advanced microfluidics way, imagine a circular channel | 20:40 |
| genehacker | huh? | 20:40 |
| xp_prg | both fluids flow into it, then close the valves and they circle around mixing with each other like two gay loers | 20:40 |
| xp_prg | lovers | 20:40 |
| genehacker | I haven't seen that one | 20:41 |
| genehacker | usually for low reynolds number mixing you pass two fluids through a curvy channel and they come out mixed | 20:41 |
| xp_prg | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0gmTc2wA3k | 20:41 |
| xp_prg | its in here | 20:41 |
| genehacker | at what point in the video? | 20:43 |
| xp_prg | don't remember | 20:43 |
| genehacker | I don't know how they do that | 20:45 |
| xp_prg | they tell you in the video | 20:45 |
| genehacker | it might be using electricosmostic flow | 20:45 |
| genehacker | more likely it's somesort of peristaltic device | 20:46 |
| xp_prg | well lets say I wanted to do it with acrylic, just give me some ideas | 20:47 |
| genehacker | WHOA | 20:47 |
| genehacker | that's crazy | 20:47 |
| genehacker | they're running at high reynolds numbers | 20:47 |
| genehacker | in other words the fluid could be going through there at faster than the speed of sound | 20:49 |
| xp_prg | the video doesn't show it that fast | 20:50 |
| genehacker | they don't say how they're doing it in the video, but they're probably doing it electrokinectically | 20:51 |
| genehacker | nope | 20:52 |
| genehacker | they're doing it mechanically | 20:52 |
| genehacker | they're using rubbery microfluidics | 20:53 |
| genehacker | http://thebigone.stanford.edu/quake/publications/biomedmicro01.pdf | 20:53 |
| genehacker | using this | 20:53 |
| xp_prg | well you get my question though right? | 20:54 |
| xp_prg | I want to do it at the diy level | 20:54 |
| xp_prg | but I do have access to a laser and drilling machines | 20:54 |
| genehacker | you might beable to do that with shrinky dink microfluidics | 20:55 |
| xp_prg | I have to go in 5 minutes | 20:55 |
| xp_prg | what is shrinky dink microfluidics | 20:55 |
| xp_prg | ? | 20:55 |
| genehacker | rubber microfluidics formed with molds made out of shrunk shrinky dinks | 20:56 |
| xp_prg | what acts as the pump and valves? | 20:56 |
| genehacker | http://www.nft-eop.co.jp/en/img/technology/img_micro_valve02.gif | 21:00 |
| genehacker | something like this | 21:01 |
| xp_prg | I am confused by that | 21:01 |
| xp_prg | how do you make it go open? | 21:01 |
| genehacker | http://thebigone.stanford.edu/foundry/technology/valve.html | 21:02 |
| genehacker | these are the valves they used | 21:02 |
| genehacker | the channel on the top expands like a ballon when pressure is applied closing the channel | 21:03 |
| xp_prg | how is pressure applied? | 21:03 |
| genehacker | with air | 21:03 |
| genehacker | or pressure from a syringe pump | 21:03 |
| xp_prg | how does the air get there? With like a mini hose or something? | 21:03 |
| genehacker | yeah | 21:04 |
| xp_prg | genehacker, I want to create a microfluidics chip, please be thinking of a way I can do that at a size that is not too difficult | 21:04 |
| xp_prg | I have to go right now, thanks again for your wonderful help! | 21:04 |
| xp_prg | just curious how much is a lithography machine? | 21:04 |
| genehacker | then it won't be a microfluidics chip | 21:05 |
| xp_prg | why not? | 21:05 |
| xp_prg | won't be small enough? | 21:05 |
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