| --- Day changed Fri Nov 13 2009 | ||
| tim__ | It's not easy days yet in RepRap land, but things are steadily getting better. | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| tim__ | If Linux is any indication, in about ten years, they'll be easy enough for normal people to use. | 00:01 |
| fenn | ohboy | 00:01 |
| * fenn hopes tim__ is wrong | 00:01 | |
| tim__ | me too. :D | 00:02 |
| tim__ | It really helps a lot to band together in groups. Using the Linux metaphor, I modeled our group after a Linux User Group. It worked better than expected. Everyone has a different background, and knows more about / has an easier time with different parts of the build process. Not to mention that everyone has different tools and other resources. | 00:06 |
| tim__ | It's been 1000 times easier to build a working RepRap in a group than alone. | 00:06 |
| kanzure | sorry but the groups i've come across down here in austin are totally incompetent | 00:06 |
| kanzure | and this is me being very forgiving | 00:06 |
| tim__ | :( how so? | 00:07 |
| kanzure | well they hold meetings in a retirement home | 00:07 |
| kanzure | ok, that's not bad | 00:07 |
| kanzure | but they don't do anything | 00:07 |
| tim__ | You are, or were at one time part of these groups, no? | 00:08 |
| kanzure | i guess i still am, but need to get stuff done. can't sit around talking about "what are we going to do next year" with a bunch of old guys doin' nothing | 00:08 |
| kanzure | blah | 00:08 |
| kanzure | i sound like a meanie | 00:08 |
| kanzure | fenn: make me sound less mean. say something stupid! | 00:08 |
| tim__ | heh | 00:08 |
| tim__ | I only ask to point out that you could take the initiative... organize a group purchase (one of the first things I did with the MiRUG) to lower costs for everyone, or something else creative :D | 00:09 |
| tim__ | _someone_ has to do the work that makes life easier on the other group members :D | 00:10 |
| fenn | the one "The Robot Group" meeting i attended, they talked about the budget for like half the meeting, then there was a guy with crows that pecked at a dead baby, then a dancing robot wind up toy | 00:10 |
| tim__ | meh | 00:11 |
| tim__ | that does sound horrible | 00:11 |
| tim__ | So start a group that doesn't suck :D | 00:11 |
| fenn | easy for you to say :) | 00:11 |
| kanzure | well we are that group | 00:11 |
| kanzure | you're talking to it | 00:12 |
| fenn | how did you advertise the first couple meetings? i mean how did they even know it was there | 00:12 |
| * fenn wouldnt know how to start a linux user group either | 00:13 | |
| kanzure | there's one in austin | 00:13 |
| kanzure | but it's pretty small | 00:13 |
| tim__ | fenn: it's not so hard. Create a google group (or use some other mailing list / forum - Google groups are just super easy), spam a few local mailing lists, and dictate a first meeting date. Then it gets easy, because you can start delegating :D | 00:13 |
| kanzure | spam? i'm good at that | 00:14 |
| kanzure | i made a total of $0.83 spamming so far! | 00:14 |
| tim__ | I sent around a few emails to local LUGs, Con mailing lists, etc. Interested people forwarded that on to other lists. | 00:14 |
| tim__ | and by 'a few' I literally mean 3 or 4. | 00:14 |
| kanzure | http://heybryan.org/mailing_lists.html too many? | 00:15 |
| tim__ | Also, mentioned it on the RepRap blog a few times. | 00:15 |
| kanzure | yeah but there's lots of hype around reprap | 00:15 |
| kanzure | not fair | 00:15 |
| tim__ | :) | 00:16 |
| kanzure | can someone make sure trey daniels gets hooked up into here? | 00:17 |
| tim__ | I tried to do the same thing with starting a hackerspace a couple years back, didn't get a good response. Tried again a few days ago, and we already have 10 or more interested people. Sometimes we're a bit ahead of our respective times. | 00:17 |
| kanzure | ybit: can you googlestalk him? i'm checking out for the night | 00:18 |
| kanzure | tim__: yeah but what's the right waiting time before tries | 00:18 |
| kanzure | i mean, i've done 30k google searches but i have no idea which ones i should redo and when. :( | 00:18 |
| kanzure | sometimes they didn't end up anywhere good | 00:18 |
| kanzure | and in the mean time awesome stuff pops up, but i won't ever know about it because i've thought i've already queried for it | 00:18 |
| kanzure | blah | 00:18 |
| katsmeow-afk | have a proxy log your browsing? | 00:19 |
| kanzure | yes that's been on my todo list for a very long time now | 00:20 |
| kanzure | also google has "email me new stuff" feature, but that's pretty hard to manage AFAIK | 00:20 |
| kanzure | i'd rather manage it myself.. | 00:20 |
| ybit | kanzure: who am i googletalking again? | 00:37 |
| ybit | stalking* | 00:37 |
| ybit | google needs to get their act together google rape 2.0 is down indefinitely :\ | 00:37 |
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| ybit | http://ybit.ath.cx/test/test.html | 02:07 |
| ybit | looking better than it has | 02:08 |
| ybit | time for sleep | 02:08 |
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| fenn | golly gee, according to deathclock.com i can double my lifespan simply by switching from pessimism to optimism | 05:09 |
| marainein | if you're a true pessimist, you wouldn't believe that | 05:10 |
| fenn | a true pessimist would simply see the life as half empty | 05:11 |
| tim__ | fenn: we talked about it taking 2 weeks to replicate... found out today why. Got through 4 mendel parts and my extruder esploded. | 06:02 |
| tim__ | (the heater barrel slipped out of the PTFE spacer) | 06:03 |
| tim__ | First extruder lifespan: approx 15 hours print time. | 06:03 |
| tim__ | The next one will do better. | 06:04 |
| fenn | well how long does it take to make an extruder? | 06:05 |
| fenn | also i think the stainless/aluminum extruder looks a lot better than all that teflon acorn nut stuff | 06:05 |
| fenn | and pinch wheel drive.. seriously wtf were the guys in england thinking? | 06:06 |
| fenn | maybe i'm spoiled by machine tools | 06:07 |
| tim__ | The pinch wheel works MUCH better than v1's drive screw. | 06:07 |
| tim__ | I don't need to build a whole new extruder, just replace the PTFE spacer. | 06:08 |
| fenn | it seems to me that you could use the same worm wheel as the pinch wheel and reduction drive | 06:08 |
| tim__ | ? | 06:08 |
| fenn | er.. like this http://hydraraptor.blogspot.com/2009/10/worm-drive.html but with only one wheel | 06:09 |
| tim__ | that looks like a nice extruder. | 06:10 |
| fenn | and the rest of it | 06:12 |
| fenn | http://hydraraptor.blogspot.com/2009/11/no-compromise-extruder.html | 06:12 |
| fenn | i dont see why it has to be so long though | 06:13 |
| fenn | in the comments it says stratasys just uses thin wall stainless tubing | 06:13 |
| fenn | the end piece then clamps on | 06:13 |
| fenn | that's probably what i would do | 06:13 |
| fenn | you'd have to use a spring to keep it clamped, because of thermal expansion | 06:14 |
| tim__ | meh. at the end there he mentions that he's made some pieces taking an hour or two, and sometimes it worked. Mine worked splendidly over 4x 2.5 hour prints - three of which were in a row. I don't think I'm far behind using the nearly-100% plastic official RepRap design. | 06:18 |
| tim__ | A couple quick improvements, and I'll be off to the races again. | 06:18 |
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| fenn | i dont like the standard version because 1) there's no automatic adjustment for slop and 2) you have to get a stepper with a sharp splined shaft | 06:25 |
| fenn | and it looks like it puts a lot of load on the stepper motor's internal bearings | 06:27 |
| fenn | i mean where do you get a motor like that? it looks like some random thing he pulled out of the junk box | 06:28 |
| tim__ | http://www.jameco.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10001&catalogId=10001&productId=1581231 | 06:46 |
| tim__ | and what do you have against steppers pulled from the junk pile? Mine came from a long-dead printer. | 06:54 |
| tim__ | :D | 06:54 |
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| fenn | it's not a good way to make a "standard" design spec | 07:06 |
| fenn | the jameco motor has splined shaft? it doesn't look like it | 07:06 |
| fenn | ("something from the junk pile" was referring to the splined shaft, btw) | 07:07 |
| kanzure | dethklok | 07:26 |
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| kanzure | ybit: how goes the .deb? | 07:37 |
| tim__ | fenn: no, it doesn't. Neither did mine. I splined it manually with a jig and a dremel, and cleaned it up a bit with a triangular file. Works great. | 07:51 |
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| kanzure | todd has odd ip addresses | 10:06 |
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| genehacker | so tim__ you want a reprapable construction kit? | 10:08 |
| genehacker | kanzure you're posting on the 3ds thing | 10:09 |
| kanzure | hm? | 10:09 |
| genehacker | ok cool | 10:09 |
| kanzure | what's up? | 10:09 |
| genehacker | oh you are doing 3 day start up | 10:10 |
| kanzure | yeah | 10:10 |
| genehacker | actually the programmer ratio might be a bit higher, but most of the things i've seen so far from those 3daystartup things tend to be ideas that seem like good ideas to business people | 10:11 |
| genehacker | the 3daystartup things tend to focus on "niche market/underserved market" things | 10:13 |
| genehacker | and they usually like web2.0 things and software things | 10:15 |
| genehacker | one of the ideas that won was a cellphone games for families thing | 10:18 |
| genehacker | the reason: the family game market for cellphones is underserved | 10:18 |
| kanzure | "ideas that won" | 10:18 |
| kanzure | what? | 10:18 |
| genehacker | I'm not sure if it won, it was something one of the TES guys did | 10:19 |
| genehacker | their startup | 10:19 |
| kanzure | what do you mean "won" | 10:19 |
| genehacker | oops | 10:20 |
| genehacker | I seem to have confused idea 2 product and TES | 10:20 |
| genehacker | anyway need any help with it? | 10:21 |
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| CIA-43 | skdb: kanzure * r 8fe27a4 / (2 files in 2 dirs): graphsynth save_gxml method | 12:09 |
| kanzure | pleasestalk: william andregg, michael andregg | 12:59 |
| ybit | kanzure: i haven't attempted to fix the error in days, figured i would make a little more progress on the site before bashing my head over the .deb again | 13:06 |
| genehacker | woo water on the moon for sure this tiem | 13:07 |
| genehacker | as in a significant amount | 13:07 |
| ybit | what were we supposed to know about andreggs, kanzure? | 13:08 |
| kanzure | whether or not they are bullshit | 13:09 |
| kanzure | andrew hessel claims no | 13:09 |
| kanzure | todd huffman claims they've gone the commercial route and i shouldn't bother with them | 13:09 |
| ybit | i've never heard of them | 13:13 |
| kanzure | zach claims he wants to integrate skdb into thingiverse | 13:13 |
| kanzure | i don't believe it though | 13:13 |
| kanzure | he said that a year ago too | 13:13 |
| ybit | yeah, i just saw that | 13:14 |
| kanzure | hm let's get a vote. who thinks he's likely to be serious this time? | 13:15 |
| kanzure | i say nay | 13:16 |
| ybit | i think he'll have a look and realize it isn't ready to be integrated | 13:16 |
| kanzure | it's easy to assume that without actually looking | 13:17 |
| ybit | he'll probably want something simple for the users, when it has a simple installation, he may change his mind | 13:17 |
| kanzure | i mean | 13:17 |
| kanzure | how can you prove that he will take a look before thinking that? | 13:17 |
| ybit | you can't | 13:17 |
| kanzure | no he said integrate into thingiverse | 13:17 |
| kanzure | that's not the same thing as a .deb | 13:17 |
| kanzure | actually i think we might be able to | 13:17 |
| kanzure | i have his ip addresss | 13:17 |
| ybit | ah | 13:17 |
| ybit | hehe | 13:17 |
| kanzure | oh god google is crawling /lab/2008-10-30/R_1/ | 13:18 |
| genehacker | wait zach said a second time he wants skdb in his thingiverse? | 13:18 |
| genehacker | sounds like we're gtting assimilated | 13:18 |
| kanzure | do you think zach uses opera? if so he is 90.186.238.30 | 13:19 |
| kanzure | ah, nope | 13:20 |
| kanzure | that's some random scanner bot | 13:20 |
| kanzure | if he uses macintosh, maybe 129.55.200.20 | 13:20 |
| kanzure | nope that's someone on mit.edu | 13:21 |
| * ybit snacks and naps for 1.5 hours | 13:23 | |
| kanzure | i wish i gave people unique URLs so that i could figure out which IP address they are | 13:23 |
| ybit | i just don't think hacking into someone's computer and setting up skdb is a good idea :P | 13:25 |
| genehacker | he probably has some security stuff installed | 13:25 |
| ybit | screw napping | 13:25 |
| kanzure | just because you know an ip address doesn't mean you want to hack | 13:26 |
| ybit | yeah, but if it's windows, then there's nothing to it ;) | 13:26 |
| genehacker | anyway I think skdb needs to do more stuff | 13:26 |
| genehacker | I'm also wonder what shape classification I should give to metal spin forming | 13:27 |
| genehacker | it makes rotationally symmetrical parts | 13:27 |
| genehacker | not knowing it can have expensive consequences | 13:28 |
| genehacker | my professor told us a story of someone who made a hollow metal dome by machining it down from a solid block | 13:29 |
| kanzure | genehacker: sorry but you've probably never used skdb. | 13:30 |
| kanzure | in fact, i am sure of it | 13:30 |
| genehacker | yes I know | 13:30 |
| genehacker | I haven't | 13:30 |
| genehacker | how the heck do I use it? | 13:31 |
| genehacker | and what can I do with it? | 13:31 |
| kanzure | huh: http://afterthedeadline.com/ | 13:34 |
| kanzure | genehacker: you use it by running it under python | 13:34 |
| kanzure | say "python skdb.py" or something | 13:34 |
| kanzure | you can share hardware designs, run a thingiverse-like website (almost), and check dependencies | 13:34 |
| genehacker | I don't need to run a thingiverse like website | 13:51 |
| genehacker | how does dependency checking work? | 13:51 |
| genehacker | anyway what geometry classification should I give bending? | 13:59 |
| ybit | http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:591 | 15:14 |
| ybit | kanzure, fenn | 15:14 |
| ybit | tim__: exactly what i was asking you to make it seems | 15:15 |
| ybit | proof of concept it can be done, which is a plus | 15:15 |
| ybit | kanzure: will you do me a favor a render some rather large cad files in wireframe mode, take some snapshots and send them my way? i can't render a drill or transmission on this computer, at least not within a 24 hour timeframe | 15:20 |
| ybit | genehacker: we have already discussed dependencies | 15:21 |
| ybit | what exactly do you mean by geometry classification? | 15:21 |
| ybit | hod got back to me | 15:49 |
| ybit | That's from almost a decade ago... I don't think I can find the code, and it | 15:50 |
| ybit | wouldn't work anyway. | 15:50 |
| ybit | Regarding your platform, check out our fab@home | 15:50 |
| ybit | --hod | 15:50 |
| ybit | it's not _my_ platform obviously, i just mentioned the skdb project to him, that it was doing something similar to what he proposed in his papaer | 15:51 |
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| ybit | oh, he was referrign to the precision positioning system i bet *face to the head* | 16:13 |
| ybit | er... | 16:13 |
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| genehacker | the type of geometries that bending can make | 17:09 |
| ybit | http://ybit.ath.cx/test/test.html | 18:00 |
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| ybit | fenn: are you around | 20:30 |
| ybit | kanzure: you wouldn't happen to have a local copy of the 3ds notes? | 22:19 |
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