2009-11-20.log

--- Day changed Fri Nov 20 2009
genehackerlego models consist of lego bricks00:01
ybitwas afk, of course i played with legos at some point, haven't all kids had some type of construction set at some point? i was into k'nex, and yeah i built the spaceship from looking at the box00:02
genehackerok then00:03
genehackeruse that brain blob of yours and turn those videos into something more useful00:03
ybitworking on it00:03
genehackerexcellent00:04
ybitgoogle has street view in the legoland california theme park :)00:08
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ybiti haven't heard back from jeremiah petit, should i kick him out in favor of marcin since he's looking for a place to stay?01:03
ybitand he for sure going whereas marcin isn't01:03
ybit+is01:03
ybitcan i has 'design of machine elements'?01:30
genehackerlet me see01:37
genehackernope01:38
genehackerI only have shigley's mechanical engineering design01:38
ybiti'll take it01:57
ybitin pdf format?01:57
ybitthe machinery's handbook helped me already, but i'll still take your book for future referencing 02:00
genehackerno02:02
genehackerbut just knowing the name is good enough02:02
genehackerputting it into google can probably get you to the PDF 02:02
ybiti was going to let you google it for me since i was being a lazy bastard, but i've already grabbed it02:08
ybitfor anyone else who doesn't want to google: http://ybit.ath.cx/books/Shigley%27s%20Mechanical%20Engineering%20Design%208th%20Edition.pdf02:10
ybitdanielfalck: i knew that i mentioned you once before you joined this channel02:13
ybitit was while i was having problems with the pythonocc install sometime ago02:14
ybit..obviously i'm not being serious:02:14
ybit23:52 < ybit> right now i hate danielfalck, not really, just jealous he flippantly mentions that he has occ and pythoncc02:14
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fennwho is ym/uptown?05:20
fenner [ym]uptown 05:21
fenni notice they're in irvine05:21
fennglendale, close enough05:23
strageshttp://ws.g-language.org/g4/07:17
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ybitfenn: someone i met in some channel and invited in here10:03
danielfalckhi ybit 10:04
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kanzureanyone know how to kill a stubborn process? -9 isn't working12:10
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ybitkillall?12:48
ybithi danielfalck 12:48
kanzurekillall didn't work either12:48
danielfalckybit: I chuckled when I saw the comment- no offense taken :)12:48
ybitsuper kill12:48
ybitdanielfalck: great :)12:48
ybitkanzure: i obviously made that one up12:49
danielfalckI had pyocc working on this mac and then killed it by upgrading python to 2.612:49
danielfalckhaven't bothered to install again12:49
kanzurepythonocc doesn't work with 2.6?12:49
ybiti haven't thought about that, i use 2.5.412:49
danielfalckI probably fubared something else, I'm not sure12:49
kanzuremaybe the paths are all off. on linux boxes, pythonocc puts itself in python-version-specific paths12:50
danielfalckbut I've avoided working on it lately with other stuff to do hadn't taken the time to look at it12:50
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ybitkanzure: didn't you say you would weld a chair to the front hood? someone's going to need that spot if joseph agrees to pick up marcin as well13:52
ybitthe thought of you sitting on a lawn chair welded to the front hood cracks me up13:53
kanzurei'd probably have a laptop13:54
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fennybit: "From there, we are hitching a ride with Joseph Jackson." so he's just picking us up from the airport to be nice?14:33
fennhum. ok14:37
kanzureto be nice?14:37
fennwith ~15 speakers a day that's like 20 mins per speaker; so we'd get like 5 minutes each?14:38
fenni'm wondering what i could possibly say in 5 minutes14:39
kanzurehm wish they would tell me that14:39
kanzuremy presentation is much longer than 5min14:39
fennyour presentation sucks anyway :P14:39
kanzureyou do better14:39
fennok just leave out all the pictures of software developers14:40
kanzureand just use giant graphs? i don't think so14:40
fennwell some of the graphs are interesting, like the number of packages in debian one14:41
kanzurea lot of this needs context14:41
kanzurepeople bring context14:41
kanzure"look! there's people"14:41
fennand the first packages blob thing14:41
kanzurehuh?14:41
fennthe spiderweb graph14:41
kanzureyeah but that doesn't actually tell you anything14:42
kanzure"lots of crap that only techies understand"14:42
fennno but it gives you some idea of the complexity14:42
kanzurei don't think they'll care14:42
kanzurei like the graph too though14:42
fenni.e. it's not just 1 2 314:42
kanzurei mean, it's certainly going to be included14:42
fenni dont even know who 'they' are14:42
kanzureapparently people watching 20x 5min presentations?14:43
fennwho the hell goes to these things anyway?14:43
fenni might as well set up my presentation to visiting aliens14:43
kanzurewhat?14:43
kanzurehow about you ask14:43
fennhas anyone said they're going, on exi tt or wta lists?14:44
kanzureno14:45
kanzureoh, the guy who runs the GRG in LA said he's going 14:45
fenngod that sharpie microfluidics thread is still going?14:45
kanzurejürgen müller emailed me today, claiming i stole content from his website14:46
kanzurei probably did14:46
kanzureoh well14:46
fennwas that the fritzing guy?14:48
kanzurediy stm guy14:48
fennwell, so what14:48
kanzurehe was complaining about http://heybryan.org/instrumentation/instru.html14:48
kanzurewhy is this world so lame14:49
fennhah "A significant portion of this content is blatantly stolen from http://www.e-basteln.de/index_r.htm. 14:49
kanzureadded that in a few minutes ago14:50
fenni dont understand; you stole links and abstracts?14:50
kanzureoh noes!14:50
kanzureyep14:50
fennpfff14:50
fenngrow up jurgen14:50
kanzurethe internet pirates are out to get you14:50
fenni'm kind of wishing i were as gung-ho as marcin14:52
fennafraid we're going to have an impedance mismatch14:53
kanzurei disagree with your view that you suck as much as you said you were14:53
kanzurein the email to marcin14:53
kanzurewhy does paul, marcin, smari, and all of these others people just throw us away?14:54
fenni havent dont literally anything on skdb in months14:54
fenni think marcin honestly didnt know what skdb was about14:54
kanzurebullshit14:54
kanzurehe's been subscribed since the beginning14:54
fennhmm14:54
fennto OM?14:54
kanzureyep14:54
fennthat doesn't mean he understands14:55
kanzurethen he should ask questions.. like "what the fuck is this?"14:55
fenni think we're going to have to do some computer graphics animation or something14:55
kanzurehm?14:55
fennto explain the whole package management and downloading thing14:55
kanzuredo you have any ideas for a suitable animation14:56
fennnot really; have you seen AKIRA? the scene where tetsuo makes a new arm from junkyard crap maybe14:56
fennone sec i find14:57
fennwhy does everything have to stop working after five years15:03
fenni can't believe this is so hard to find15:18
fennhuh - tetsuo means roughly 'iron man'15:20
fennsigh.. well this is what i'm talking about. too bad i can't find anything on the 'tube http://www3.microwar.de/akira/film-movie/tetsuos_arm.htm2~15:27
fennhttp://www3.microwar.de/akira/film-movie/tetsuos_arm.htm15:27
kanzurenever saw it15:29
* fenn just shakes his head sadly15:33
fennok i found it15:39
fenn2:28-2:30 in http://youtube.com/watch?v=7vK0iThYlWY  please excuse the awful music15:40
fennit makes more sense in context15:40
kanzurei dunno if that will be enough15:47
fennno of course not15:51
fennthere's not many movies about manufacturing or engineering :(16:00
kanzureshould we rip a scene from iron man?16:02
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fenni dunno if it has anything worth stealing16:06
fennbesides just 'oo technology'16:06
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fenni dont suppose anyone has a copy of roger cortesi's minimill design17:10
* fenn looks at archive.org17:11
fennaha i found it17:15
fennkanzure: you could you stop raping the internet for like ten minutes? this is ridiculous17:19
kanzurei'm not doing anything17:19
kanzurenot even streaming music17:20
fenni wonder what's up17:20
kanzureit's been like this all morning17:21
ybitre: is anyone going, they haven't gotten to the 'early adopters' stage yet, i don't think that many have signed up yet17:34
ybitre: why does smari throw us away?17:35
ybithis last email to me has a slightly diff view17:35
ybitthere are enough speakers though that it will still be enough interesting people to talk to 17:35
ybithttp://pastebin.ca/168022717:38
ybitup for 5 mins17:38
ybiti can forward it to you (whomever) if you want though17:39
fennwhy 5 minutes? are you trying to annoy me?17:40
ybitheh, i just don't know what he thinks about having his email posted publicly17:42
* fenn looks around at all the spooks17:43
fenni had the same idea about automatic UPC scanning btw17:44
fenni think i even entioned it in here17:44
ybiti don't think that the tetsuo video would be of any benefit aside from images moving around on-screen if that's what you want17:44
fennright, well, it is a sort of defining memory from my childhood17:44
ybityeah, mapping out everything like that probably isn't bad, but you don't get an idea of how much of something a store has, but i suppose that's better than nothing17:44
kanzurewhat's the point of putting something up for only 5 minutes17:45
kanzurefuck you17:45
ybithaha17:45
ybiti can forward it if you want17:45
kanzurei'm sure it's just him bullshitting17:45
fennit's not relevant17:46
fenn"Bryan and I have discussed merging TangibleBit and SKDB for quite some time. It may eventually happen, but not yet. We are collaborating though."17:46
kanzurebullshit17:46
kanzureit's already merged17:46
kanzurewhat the hell is he talking about17:46
kanzureis he still angry about tabs vs. spaces?17:46
fennmeh17:46
fenntbit doesn't do anything so there's no functionality to integrate yet anyway17:47
fennat least i never saw any convincing demonstration17:47
kanzurelots of hand-waving about xmlrpc? how about that?17:47
kanzurehehe17:47
fenndata structures!17:48
kanzureJSON! XMLRPC!17:48
* fenn chases his tail around 17:48
kanzurehm something fishy going around17:48
kanzureyou don't have a tail17:48
fenni could say the same thing about skdb you see :)17:48
kanzureor.. do you?17:48
fennevery time i turn around to look, it's behind me17:48
fennoh, but people won't be carrying their "sartphones" around scanning upc's17:49
fennso the idea was to have cameras onthe sides of your wearable HUD to constantly scan in the enviroment and build up an environment map17:49
kanzurewhy is vegeta naked during goku's flashback?17:50
fennbecause DBZ is flamingly gay17:50
kanzurehrm17:50
kanzureoh man, don't tell me that :(17:50
fennnext thing you'll realize is that chinese food is just vegetables and syrup17:51
* fenn wonders if this stupid email is done yet17:51
kanzurewho you complaining to now?17:51
ybitJoann Kuchera-Morin / Using the Creative Process to Map N-Dimensions: Quantum Information at your Fingertips17:52
fennme, my slowness17:52
kanzureyou're writing an email to yourself?17:52
* ybit wonders what that talk is about17:52
fenni'm responding to marcin. i'll forward to OM17:52
fennor CC17:52
kanzureok17:52
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fennug there's just no way i'm ever going to port all this knowledge into a parseable format18:40
kanzurenice email18:47
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genehackerkanzure what time is the meet up tomorrow?19:23
kanzurenoon19:28
kanzureor after noon19:28
genehackernoon it is19:29
genehackerwhat was jason's number again?19:31
kanzure830-237-734819:31
genehackerhe said he could provide transportation?19:32
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genehackerdidn't he?19:38
kanzureyes19:42
genehackerok then time to pester him19:45
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genehackerdang he's not there right now19:55
kanzurefenn: so do you want to re-do step or not?20:00
fenni think i want to use a different paradigm than the traditional geometry based cad20:01
genehackerfenn you are hacking at a myvu correct?20:01
fenntechnique/process based cad instead20:01
fenngenehacker: not yet..20:01
genehackeryou have one correct?20:02
fennyes20:02
genehackerok20:02
genehackerhave you seen the myvu wearable hacks?20:02
fenni installed angstrom on an sd card but my beagleboard only boots up halfway20:02
fennyes i probably was the one who showed you20:02
fenni talked to gregor.. he didn't seem terribly competent20:02
fenni don't think i'll have stuff done by the end of the month, so who knows what will happen20:03
fennneed to get electronics junk from warehouse20:04
kanzurefenn: how would you do modeling in process-based cad?20:04
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kanzure"use function1 of machine1 for 20sec with these parameters" ?20:04
fennmore or less the same way as in geometry cad20:04
fennexcept you have a 'end mill button' instead of 'extrude tool'20:05
fennor something stupid like that20:05
fennno no the computer figures out the details20:05
kanzurethen how is it different from the current situation?20:05
fennthe point is to keep it as simple/unconstrained as possible until the last minute20:05
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kanzurei agree that it would be better if a process specification would be used in the file format20:06
kanzuresounds like "CSG except for machine processes". but maybe that's not what you mean?20:06
fenncurrently it makes a volume enclosed by trimmed surfaces20:06
fennSTEP is not CSG20:06
kanzurei know20:06
fennsay i put a radius on a cube20:06
fennlike, take a block of wood, now run the router with a round over bit around all the edges20:07
fennit's possible to do this with CSG20:07
genehacker2what is CSG?20:07
fennbut what if it's not a cube? instead some funky 3d shape (with circularly rounded edges)20:07
kanzureCSG is the intersection/union of 3D primitives to make more complicated crap20:07
fenngenehacker2: computational solid geometry; a way of describing a shape by adding and subtracting spheres toruses cones and cubes20:08
genehacker2sounds like a job for geometry classification20:08
genehacker2oh that20:08
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fennyour geometry classification is nice, but not detailed enough20:08
genehacker2I know20:09
genehacker2there aren't really any good ones out there20:09
fennthis is all way too theoretical20:09
fenni wish i didnt have to fix this broken shit20:09
fennsmari's f-rep thing might be useful20:10
genehacker2f rep20:10
genehacker2?20:11
fenneven STEP would be useful if it were easy to store the original constraints that led to the geometry20:11
fennforget about f-rep, nobody understands it (even the creators)20:11
fenni am rambling20:11
genehacker2why would you even have a weird shape20:12
fenngenehacker2: find me an accepted standardized way to store 'round this corner 5mm'20:12
genehacker2why would you even want to deal with weird shapes20:12
genehacker2define round this corner?20:12
fennyou know what a fillet is?20:12
genehacker2yeah20:12
fennthat20:12
genehacker2I don't think there are any standards20:13
genehacker2for things like that20:13
fennsee why i'd rather store '5mm' rather than some arbitrary geometry surface?20:13
fennbecause later on i can say 'hey just use a 5mm ball end mill'20:14
genehacker2ok20:14
fenn10mm actually20:15
fennanyway20:15
genehacker2but if it's a round surface other process can be used besides the ball end mill20:15
genehacker2like weird machining processes20:15
fennlike ECM!!!!20:16
kanzure!11oneone20:16
fenndude we rock!!1120:16
genehacker2I was about to say that but decided not to... 20:16
genehacker2EDM is cooler though20:17
fennso it seems to be easier to convert from process to geometry than the other way around20:17
genehacker2yeah20:17
genehacker2but that's not the way things work20:17
fenncurious isn't it20:17
fennwhy do things the hard way?20:17
fenni think it's the way they teach engineering20:18
fennfirst you have this awesome idea, then you figure out how to build it, then you give it to the poor sod who actually has to make it20:19
genehacker2machining sequence planning might be something to look into20:19
fennthen he gives it back and tells you how to redesign it so he can actually make it20:19
fennbut all that's just a bunch of crap, i say20:19
genehacker2err... unfortunately most engineers forget about the figure out how to build it part20:19
fennsure because they never actually made anything20:19
fennso they don't even know how to do that step20:20
fenni'm a fan of the apprentice system, if you haven't noticed20:20
genehacker2and just hand it to the poor sod, who then proceeds to charge a lot of money for the part being made because they accidently specified the surface finish to shiny20:20
fennno, that counts as an overbudget failure20:20
genehacker2no not accidently specified but on purpose, because shiny parts look better20:21
fennit's still a failure in my mind20:21
genehacker2or so my processing professor says of the jobs he does working for a semiconductor company...20:21
genehacker2very much a failure20:21
genehacker2exactly the reason we're doing this20:21
fennart for art's sake isn't a bad thing20:22
fennbut going 10x overbudget for 'oo shiny' is20:22
genehacker2yeah especially when the shiny thing is hidden deep inside some robot20:23
genehacker2ok found a paper that could be useful20:23
fenna cruise missile20:23
genehacker2hah20:23
fennyou know that happens20:23
genehacker2http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/content~content=a71398210120:23
fennmilitary stuff has to look 'cool'20:23
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genehacker2well actually the military wants stuff built to high tolerances, BECAUSE IT'S FOR THE DEFENCE OF OUR NATION!20:24
fennprecision machined toilet seats20:24
genehacker2we're going to blow it up, but it has to be machined to withing several nanometers20:24
genehacker2anyway proxy in and get that paper20:25
genehacker2initial skimming operations show it to be interesting20:25
fenn"This module is integrated with a feature-based design system" means they already extracted the simplified representation of the geometry20:25
genehacker2argh20:25
genehacker2too short20:25
fenni dont really care about algorithms at this point20:25
kanzurewhy don't you just look at opencascade's api and turn the geometry operations into buttons for heekscad and be done with it?20:26
fennyou missed the whole point20:26
fennSTEP doesn't store stuff like 'round this corner'20:26
kanzurethen make a new format?20:27
fennsigh.. nevermind20:27
kanzureso look,20:27
kanzureif you don't actually want to do anything,20:27
kanzurethen why are you bothering?20:27
fenni'm just bitching because i dont want to make yet another fucking cad format20:27
kanzurei think it's ok as long as you can convert to standard formats20:27
fennnobody will use it anyway20:28
fennthey will all export to STL20:28
kanzurewho will?20:28
fennand upload gigabytes of high res STL20:28
kanzurewhy not just make it punch them in the face every time they try to export to STL20:28
fennanyone who bothers to contribute20:28
genehacker2what about iges20:28
kanzurewhat about it?20:29
fenni forget how iges specifies 3d surfaces20:29
genehacker2I'm learning right now20:29
genehacker2but it looks pretty simple20:29
kanzurefenn: i guess you should look at IGESGeom_BSplineSurface.cxx20:30
kanzurein particular the Init method on line 1820:30
fennum, no.20:30
fennit's past my bedtime20:31
genehacker2ok I'll look into it20:31
genehacker2hmmm... is that a free food student event going on?20:32
genehacker2meh it's raining20:32
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fenn"[Open Manufacturing] Hosting" is ... odd20:51
kanzurethere's been a few messages that have sounded like spam lately20:51
kanzureoh20:51
kanzurethis wasn't one of them20:51
kanzurehm20:52
fennAlex Rollin sounds familiar, i think he's posted before20:52
fennbut he's a few thousand miles too far to flop in for the night :)20:52
kanzuremaybe you have an evil twin living in berlin20:53
fennnah my evil twin lives in spain20:53
fennor boston maybe20:53
kanzurewho are you to your evil twin?20:56
fenni wonder why crackpots always randomly capitalize words20:58
kanzurewell it's about Economics20:58
fenni havent asked him20:58
fennprobably 'my not evil enough twin'20:59
fennit was always such an embarrassment as a kid; all the other mad scientists would make fun of me, daring to dip my pet slink in boiling acid or enslave the local populace with mind control rays21:00
fennbut i could never do it21:00
kanzure"that's when i joined mad scientists anonymous"21:01
* fenn initializes the electronic sheep counter module21:03
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kanzurehow do sessions wokr?21:27
kanzurethey don't look like cookies21:27
genehackerhuh?21:28
kanzurewell i'm wondering if i can throw any arbitrary data structure into a session21:28
kanzureor if it's passed to the user or what21:28
kanzurei think a session is simply a way of passing a cookie with a session id to the browser21:29
kanzurehttp://stackoverflow.com/questions/613967/how-do-php-sessions-work-when-cookies-are-disabled21:29
kanzureybit: we can pitch in to buy joe some food if that's what he's worried about21:43
ybiti think he's worried that we won't have room, he said he can only fit a total of 5 in his car, and there are five people who need rides21:49
kanzureok well one of us might have to take a bus21:49
ybityep21:50
ybitkanzure: did biobasic contact you today?22:18
ybiti've been distracted with the work from the workplace :\22:18
ybit(minus first instance of the)22:18
kanzuredemo time22:19
kanzurehttp://heybryan.org:8081/22:19
kanzureno22:19
kanzureusername: demo@demo.com22:19
kanzurepassword: password22:19
ybiterror: no dna entered22:20
kanzureyeah.. i'm working on that one22:20
ybiti guess it works if you wanting to demo a login system though..22:20
kanzureif you go back to the page again and press submit, it works22:20
ybitis there not a format which specified actions? i think i've read this somewhere in some iso..22:21
ybits/in/about 22:22
kanzureprocess specification language? it doesn't actually do that22:22
ybitthen what does it do?22:22
kanzurebeats me22:23
ybitPSL’s objective is to serve as an interlingua for integrating several process-related applications (including production planning, process planning, workflow management and project management) throughout the manufacturing process life cycle.22:24
ybitBAH22:24
ybitgrr at capslock!22:24
kanzuredid you see the examples i sent to you for psl?22:24
ybitin email?22:25
kanzureyes22:25
ybitwhen did you send it?22:25
kanzurejune?22:25
ybiti don't see it22:26
kanzurewhatever, just forget it22:26
kanzurenobody reads my emails anyway22:26
ybit[Open Manufacturing] Recipe representation22:26
ybiti'm guessing that's it, that was january22:27
ybitdamn you for making me read a chocolate chip chip recipe when i'm starving over here :P22:29
kanzurethat one wasn't psl22:29
ybit<reheatFood-ref ref="rf1"/>22:30
ybitwhere exactly is reheatFood-ref specified?22:31
kanzureare you reading this? http://groups.google.com/group/openmanufacturing/browse_frm/thread/a8d8ee245aaae97d/719e8fd59cfe45a5?lnk=gst&q=recipe+representation#719e8fd59cfe45a522:31
ybityes i am22:32
ybitand thanks for bringing it back to my attention22:33
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genehackerhttp://twitter.com/CERN/status/590028720522:59
genehackerthis really is a sign of the apocalypse22:59
genehackerthe LHC is using twitter22:59
kanzureneat icytower 1.4 is out23:04
genehackerwhat is that?23:07
genehackernvm23:07

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