| --- Day changed Wed Nov 25 2009 | ||
| fenn | http://www.cdiweb.com/PortalProductDetail.aspx?ProdId=397603&fmt=2 | 00:02 |
|---|---|---|
| fenn | cool they have 3 axis gyro on one chip now | 00:03 |
| fenn | i wonder how long til 6DOF with magnetometers all one one chip | 00:04 |
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| fenn | now thats an unusual disclaimer | 00:07 |
| fenn | InvenSense sensors should not be used or sold in the development, storing, production and utilization of any conventional or mass-destructive weapons or any other weapons or life-threatening applications as well as in any other life-critical applications | 00:07 |
| genehacker2 | actually it's pretty typical | 00:07 |
| kanzure | doesn't the military dump tons of money into electronics though? | 00:08 |
| genehacker2 | after all you don't want your superweapon detonating in mid-flight due to a chip failure now do you? | 00:09 |
| genehacker2 | yeah they do | 00:09 |
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| genehacker2 | military and critical applications(cars, airplanes, medical equipment) require chips to be made very consistently and have low failure rate | 00:10 |
| genehacker2 | of course critical applications tend to use redundant systems | 00:12 |
| kanzure | fenn: so i tried to browse to /package/lego;master/data.yaml on web.py | 00:12 |
| kanzure | but i forgot that '.' is converted to '_' | 00:12 |
| kanzure | so it's looking for "data_yaml" | 00:12 |
| kanzure | wonderful | 00:12 |
| kanzure | oh well. fixed for now | 00:21 |
| kanzure | stuff that doesn't work that should be easy to fix: | 00:24 |
| kanzure | http://heybryan.org:8081/package/lego:master/data/yaml/796d52f299a4870e1552f2db40501036d2db6c4f | 00:24 |
| kanzure | http://heybryan.org:8081/package/lego:master/data/796d52f299a4870e1552f2db40501036d2db6c4f | 00:24 |
| kanzure | http://heybryan.org:8081/package/lego:master/data/796d52f299a4870e1552f2db40501036d2db6c4f/yaml (dunno what i want to have happen here) | 00:25 |
| * kanzure wonders where CIA went | 00:26 | |
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| kanzure | damn right | 00:27 |
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| phwooenix | bryan you around? | 01:31 |
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| kanzure | hi juul | 01:50 |
| Juul | hellooo | 01:50 |
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| * katsmeow-afk submitsths one for the channel's curmudgeons : http://advertisingwizards.blogspot.com/2009/08/kgboobs.html | 05:36 | |
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| ybit | https://mozillalabs.com/blog/2009/08/bespin-0-4-stop-collaborate-and-code/ :: one vcs to rule them all | 10:14 |
| ybit | off to work | 10:14 |
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| kanzure | i have no idea how i got here or what any of this is: http://dbo.netmarble.net/main.asp | 13:55 |
| kanzure | wtf is this character? 仮 | 14:06 |
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| superkuh | UTF-32, 004EEE, encoded as: E4 BB AE, name: CJK character Nelson 382 | 14:10 |
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| kanzure | superkuh: where did you look this up? | 14:12 |
| superkuh | echo 仮 > what; uniname what | 14:12 |
| superkuh | http://billposer.org/Software/unidesc.html | 14:12 |
| kanzure | uniutils - Tools for finding out what is in a Unicode file | 14:13 |
| kanzure | neat. thank you | 14:13 |
| superkuh | I was having terrible trouble filtering out unicode for text to speech output till I stumbled upon that. | 14:13 |
| kanzure | why do you listen to pdf files? | 14:14 |
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| superkuh | No everything is worth paying attention to. I can listen to papers without effort to skim for interesting bits. | 14:15 |
| superkuh | It is a useful substitute for radio or music. | 14:15 |
| kanzure | fenn: todd just sent out an email for speakers | 14:16 |
| kanzure | "The presentations will be simulcast to a large online audience - | 14:16 |
| kanzure | 10K-50K people ;)" | 14:16 |
| fenn | http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/仮 | 14:22 |
| fenn | "CJK character" is kinda useless | 14:23 |
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| fenn | i thought 90% of tts research was japanese anyway | 14:24 |
| kanzure | tts? | 14:25 |
| fenn | text to speech | 14:25 |
| kanzure | so we have 20min | 14:26 |
| kanzure | i need to redo the presentation | 14:27 |
| kanzure | what can we do with 20min? | 14:27 |
| fenn | talk fast | 14:27 |
| fenn | show pictures | 14:28 |
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| kanzure | anyone in here ever been on a debate team? i hear you people can speak for hours on end without taking a single breath of air | 14:28 |
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| kanzure | fenn: have you seen http://prezi.com/ ? | 14:30 |
| fenn | i thought you hate stuff like that | 14:31 |
| kanzure | i do | 14:33 |
| kanzure | i also hate powerpoint as much as the next guy | 14:33 |
| kanzure | hm todd only wants powerpoint or slidesharepoint | 14:33 |
| kanzure | nevermind | 14:33 |
| kanzure | fenn: should i tack on the agpl to web.py? | 14:35 |
| fenn | ummm i dunno | 14:35 |
| fenn | ask a lawyer | 14:35 |
| kanzure | er i mean to ask, if i tack it on, will you be angry | 14:36 |
| fenn | no | 14:37 |
| kanzure | i wonder if drupal is under the agpl | 14:38 |
| kanzure | in fact i don't remember specifically seeing any project under the agpl | 14:38 |
| kanzure | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_AGPL_web_applications | 14:39 |
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| fenn | "the public whip" is by the freesteel guy | 14:41 |
| fenn | why is that list so short? | 14:41 |
| kanzure | heh | 14:42 |
| kanzure | so skdb is GPL3 and skdb/web/* is AGPL3? | 14:43 |
| kanzure | sound good? | 14:43 |
| fenn | sure | 14:43 |
| fenn | actually skdb should be GPL2+ because GPL3 is incompatible with 2 and i think that's stupid | 14:44 |
| kanzure | what about AGPL? | 14:44 |
| fenn | (this is why i said ask a lawyer) | 14:45 |
| fenn | GPLv3 and AGPLv3 each include clauses (in section 13 of each license) that together achieve a form of mutual compatibility for the two licenses. | 14:45 |
| kanzure | i don't actually know any lawyers that have half a clue about this | 14:45 |
| kanzure | right | 14:45 |
| fenn | i think agpl3 is incompatible with gpl2 as well | 14:45 |
| kanzure | "Switching the license to GNU AGPL 3 means we can now freely use any code licensed under GNU GPL 3, as well as licensed under 'GNU GPL 2 or later'." | 14:45 |
| kanzure | http://forum.civicrm.org/index.php?topic=1710.0 | 14:46 |
| fenn | well that's nice | 14:46 |
| fenn | it doesn't mean agpl3 is compatible with gpl2 though | 14:46 |
| kanzure | it's compatible with gpl2+ only. hrm | 14:46 |
| kanzure | we can always fix this later i think | 14:47 |
| kanzure | since when you put a license on a project, you still can mess with the copyright later | 14:47 |
| fenn | yeah as long as there aren't too many contributors | 14:54 |
| CIA-33 | skdb: kanzure * r 2539428 /web/ (LICENSE web.py): web.py is now distributed under the AGPL3 license | 14:54 |
| kanzure | ok well there's about all of 1 contributor on web.py | 14:54 |
| kanzure | jerkfaces :( | 14:55 |
| kanzure | fenn: also i'd like to get a bug/issue tracker, is there one that works on flatfiles? maybe one that we can just throw into the git repository? | 14:56 |
| kanzure | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_issue_tracking_systems | 14:56 |
| kanzure | debbugs? | 14:56 |
| fenn | bugs everywhere | 14:57 |
| kanzure | is that the name of a system? | 14:58 |
| fenn | yeah | 14:58 |
| fenn | debbugs sucks balls, even for debian | 14:58 |
| kanzure | http://bugseverywhere.org/be/show/HomePage | 14:58 |
| kanzure | "Bugs Everywhere is a “distributed bugtracker”, designed to complement distributed revision control systems." okie dokie | 14:58 |
| kanzure | well that was easy | 14:58 |
| fenn | you're welcome | 14:58 |
| kanzure | "# Steve Losh is working on a Cherry Py interface." | 15:00 |
| fenn | is ~45MB/s normal for modern hard drives? | 15:02 |
| kanzure | speaking of bugs.. ImportError: cannot import name _version | 15:02 |
| kanzure | ah have to run make first | 15:04 |
| fenn | can't you just install a deb? | 15:04 |
| fenn | apt-get install bugs-everywhere | 15:05 |
| kanzure | yes but on their site they said something about the .deb lagging significantly behind development | 15:05 |
| fenn | sfw | 15:06 |
| fenn | all that really matters is it's backward compatible | 15:06 |
| fenn | (is it?) | 15:06 |
| fenn | "it may lag behind our bzr repository." | 15:07 |
| fenn | that is practically a tautology | 15:07 |
| kanzure | http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?package=bugs-everywhere | 15:07 |
| kanzure | "Please package r327 2009-07-23 - Debian carries r217 from 2008-11-14" | 15:07 |
| * fenn shrugs | 15:07 | |
| kanzure | doesn't look like anyone has complained loudly about incompatibilities | 15:08 |
| kanzure | machine name: duarte.debian.org | 15:08 |
| kanzure | how are these boxes named anyway | 15:08 |
| fenn | anarchists i think | 15:08 |
| kanzure | do you know how to use be? | 15:09 |
| fenn | no | 15:09 |
| fenn | 'be new "its broken"' | 15:09 |
| kanzure | gee thanks | 15:09 |
| fenn | git add .be or whatever its called | 15:10 |
| kanzure | are you sure? because "be help" lists 'be commit' | 15:10 |
| kanzure | so does it commit itself or do we have to git add .be ourselves? | 15:10 |
| fenn | why would it have its own commit command? | 15:10 |
| kanzure | oh shit | 15:10 |
| fenn | are you sure it's not "comment" and you just read it wrong? | 15:10 |
| kanzure | well apparently it commits based on whatever repo you're using | 15:11 |
| kanzure | i just committed | 15:11 |
| kanzure | how do i revert? without making a spurious "this reverts blah blah blah" | 15:11 |
| fenn | you did 'be commit'? | 15:11 |
| * kanzure nods | 15:11 | |
| kanzure | git reset --soft HEAD^ i think | 15:11 |
| fenn | same way as usual.. git rebase onto blah master | 15:12 |
| fenn | reset just undoes staged changes | 15:12 |
| kanzure | no git reset did the trick for me | 15:12 |
| kanzure | it removed a commit from my log | 15:12 |
| fenn | um. it's not supposed to do that | 15:13 |
| kanzure | git reset --soft HEAD^ forgot something in your last commit? That's easy to fix. Undo your last commit, but keep the changes in the staging area for editing. | 15:13 |
| fenn | or it could be i dont know what the fuck i'm talking about | 15:13 |
| fenn | i wish there were an ascii-art "wtf did i just do" diagram thingy | 15:14 |
| fenn | like gitk | 15:15 |
| fenn | except gitk doesn't show the right stuff | 15:15 |
| kanzure | so, i've never filed bug reports on a common basis | 15:18 |
| kanzure | what gets to be counted as a bug? | 15:18 |
| fenn | whatever you want | 15:18 |
| kanzure | stuff that doesn't work that you know doesn't work just as you commit some code? | 15:18 |
| fenn | it probably makes more sense to write that as a #TODO | 15:18 |
| kanzure | ok | 15:18 |
| kanzure | what's the sun doing in my face. it's like 3 in the afternoon | 15:19 |
| fenn | it's almost december | 15:19 |
| fenn | hm i only have A-B from your server | 15:22 |
| fenn | oh n/m | 15:22 |
| kanzure | huh? | 15:24 |
| CIA-33 | skdb: kanzure * r 5d42f3d / (11 files in 8 dirs): started to keep track of bugs with bugseverywhere | 15:24 |
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| fenn | i dont get why they are making led arrays into contacts.. shouldnt they do a virtual retinal display? | 15:32 |
| fenn | i.e. one or three lasers with mems mirror that focus on the retina | 15:32 |
| fenn | oh. /me reads the next page of the article | 15:34 |
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| fenn | spiffy: We then submerge the plastic lens substrate in a liquid medium and flow the collection of microcomponents over it. The binding sites are cut to match the geometries of the individual parts so that a triangular component finds a triangular well | 15:44 |
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| kanzure | what's the likelihood of a triangular component flowing past a triangular cutout? er, cut-in | 15:54 |
| kanzure | i guess it depends on whether or not they are using a high flow rate or what | 15:55 |
| QuantumG | A virus walks into a bar. The bartender says "we don't serve viruses in this bar". The virus replaces the bartender and says "well now we do". - Brian Malow | 15:56 |
| kanzure | i don't get it | 16:07 |
| kanzure | a virus doesn't replace a computer | 16:07 |
| QuantumG | you have to have a pedestrian understanding of cell machinery to think its funny | 16:11 |
| QuantumG | http://fora.tv/2009/11/08/Science_Laughs_Science_Comedian_Brian_Malow <- many others | 16:12 |
| kanzure | do'h. cherrypy allows .'s in URIs when passed to an object's default() method | 16:15 |
| kanzure | time to delete this other bullshit code.. | 16:15 |
| fenn | i want to rapid-fire through a bunch of pictures of open source hardware projects for the h+ talk; i've compiled a list of interesting things here: http://pastebin.ca/1687387 | 16:39 |
| fenn | if anyone wants to help by picking one or two representative (and maximally visually appealing) pictures of each of those, and throwing it in a folder somewhere or just pastebinning the url, that'd be sweet | 16:40 |
| fenn | or if not, that's ok too. just thought i might harness some idleness | 16:40 |
| fenn | and feel free to come up with more ideas, that's just all i could think of atm | 16:41 |
| fenn | actually.. ignore previous pastebin, go here instead and convert lines to url's http://adl.serveftp.org/dokuwiki/skdb_presentation | 16:42 |
| ybit_ | i can lend you two some ritalin and both of you can talk as fast as aubrey ;) | 16:54 |
| ybit_ | coolest presentation software for code ever: http://aminus.net/wiki/Jitter | 16:55 |
| ybit_ | and i also like this: http://aminus.net/wiki/Okapi | 16:55 |
| ybit_ | fumanchu was using it in his talk @ pycon: http://blip.tv/file/1957163/ | 16:57 |
| fenn | how nice of them to actually provide a download link | 17:00 |
| fenn | halfway through my eyes started to glaze over ("this is the part where i hit you if you're not really awake" heh) | 17:15 |
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| kanzure | fenn: be sure to steal pictures from projects listed on http://p2pfoundation.net/Category:Design | 17:21 |
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| fenn | oh yeah, i remember that bulletin board from hell picture | 17:23 |
| fenn | ah the actual list is way down at the bottom | 17:25 |
| fenn | 598 total :\ | 17:25 |
| kanzure | hm i wonder why i show up in the p2p designer network | 17:27 |
| fenn | well its not like anyone else on that page has done anything worth mentioning | 17:28 |
| kanzure | oh but paul's written a lot | 17:28 |
| kanzure | and stuff | 17:28 |
| kanzure | ! | 17:28 |
| QuantumG | so it's accurate ;) | 17:28 |
| ybit_ | 1? | 17:59 |
| fenn | 1 what? | 18:09 |
| ybit_ | i thought maybe we should add a 1 after the excamation point | 18:10 |
| ybit_ | Thu Dec 03 # 2749 Depart NASHVILLE TN (BNA) at 8:25 AM | 18:11 |
| ybit_ | Arrive in AUSTIN TX (AUS) at 10:50 AM | 18:11 |
| kanzure | ybit_: ok i'll be picking you up then | 18:12 |
| ybit_ | that's strange __init__.py wasn't in web/templates | 18:15 |
| ybit_ | did someone commit with it left out? | 18:16 |
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| ybit | hmm, and PackageIndex.py is missing | 18:17 |
| kanzure | PackageIndex.py should be empty | 18:18 |
| ybit | i thouched those files | 18:18 |
| ybit | here's the error now: http://pastebin.com/m860ef08 | 18:19 |
| kanzure | ybit: run the .sh in that directory | 18:19 |
| ybit | brb, food is about to burn | 18:19 |
| fenn | burn baby burn | 18:20 |
| kanzure | there, i fixed it (but you should just run the .sh anyway) | 18:20 |
| fenn | http://fennetic.net/irc/burnbabyburn.jpg | 18:22 |
| kanzure | i don't know what i'm looking at | 18:22 |
| kanzure | this is _not_ a burning baby >:( | 18:23 |
| fenn | me either but it's cool as hell | 18:23 |
| ybit | hell isn't cool, so what does that say about the picture? | 18:23 |
| ybit | where are my comedy drums? | 18:23 |
| kanzure | aren't you supposed to be cooking instead of making bad jokes? | 18:24 |
| kanzure | http://instantrimshot.com/ | 18:24 |
| fenn | brap poo | 18:24 |
| fenn | how do i align a 8mm square camera module | 18:25 |
| ybit | kanzure: what'd you change the line 138 in web.py to? | 18:28 |
| ybit | fenn: #photography? | 18:28 |
| ybit | er, #photogeeks | 18:28 |
| kanzure | ybit: if not os.path.exists("valid_top_level_domains"): os.system("./update_valid_tlds.sh") #because some people are too lazy | 18:28 |
| ybit | lazy? why are you calling fenn lazy? | 18:29 |
| kanzure | i believe it was you who didn't run the .sh | 18:29 |
| ybit | yay, more errors | 18:30 |
| ybit | http://pastebin.com/m4f8b9b2b | 18:30 |
| kanzure | templates/__init__.py is wrong | 18:31 |
| kanzure | in their put stuff like this: | 18:31 |
| kanzure | from PackageIndex import PackageIndex | 18:31 |
| kanzure | from PackageView import PackageView etc. | 18:31 |
| ybit | can you commit or let me browse what you have?\ | 18:32 |
| ybit | File "/home/heath/projects/skdb/web/templates/__init__.py", line 1, in <module> | 18:33 |
| ybit | from PackageIndex import PackageIndex | 18:33 |
| ybit | ImportError: cannot import name PackageIndex | 18:33 |
| CIA-33 | skdb: kanzure * r 5f2ab63 /.be/bugs/ (3 files in 3 dirs): added all of the templates again (just in case) | 18:34 |
| kanzure | what's in your web/templates/ dir? | 18:35 |
| ybit | http://pastebin.com/m29b45448 | 18:35 |
| kanzure | looks right to me | 18:35 |
| ybit | the reason it can't "import name PackageIndex" is because there isn't PackageIndex in PackageIndex | 18:37 |
| ybit | wtf happened to my templates | 18:37 |
| kanzure | go into PackageIndex.tmpl and type some random crap | 18:38 |
| kanzure | then do: cheetah compile PackageIndex | 18:38 |
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| kanzure | hey jasonwohlfahrt | 19:01 |
| ybit | http://pastebin.com/m50753605 | 19:12 |
| ybit | kanzure: are you trying to subclass a module? | 19:14 |
| ybit | fenn, kanzure: if you feel like your presentation is being rushed, maybe get marcin pitch in on a lunchtime breakout session? | 19:25 |
| ybit | or just let him use 5 and let others ask questions during the lbs | 19:25 |
| fenn | i kind of need marcin to talk to give background to skdb | 19:25 |
| * kanzure nods | 19:26 | |
| kanzure | ybit: no | 19:26 |
| fenn | i still dont actually have an outline or anything | 19:26 |
| fenn | but it goes something like this: | 19:27 |
| kanzure | what happened to the wiki page | 19:27 |
| fenn | we're getting screwed, everything sucks.. how about we make our own stuff? (cue FeF) | 19:27 |
| fenn | ok we got all this stuff, but it's too much! it's scrambled egg all over the internet, drawn in crayon | 19:27 |
| fenn | (cue drawings in crayon) | 19:27 |
| fenn | then explain debian, Free software, how it ought to work | 19:28 |
| fenn | then explain what we've done so far | 19:28 |
| kanzure | marginalized transhumans too | 19:28 |
| fenn | uh. work transhumanist angle int there somewhere yeah | 19:29 |
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| fenn | perhaps in 'everything sucks' section | 19:29 |
| fenn | lulz | 19:29 |
| kanzure | "YOU suck" | 19:29 |
| fenn | can we add a live webcam feed to the presentation? :P | 19:30 |
| fenn | oh i havent added any open transhumanist crap to the list yet | 19:30 |
| fenn | openeeg, openrtms, etc | 19:31 |
| kanzure | because you're a terrible person | 19:31 |
| fenn | it's because i don't take any of them seriously :( | 19:31 |
| kanzure | it's ok, they don't take themselves seriously either | 19:31 |
| kanzure | openprosthetics | 19:31 |
| fenn | are there any brain scanning projects that dont suck and actually publish data? | 19:32 |
| fenn | like todd's diamond knife thing, but that's all locked up in academia | 19:33 |
| ybit | you could ask the openeeg list if someone will share some data | 19:33 |
| fenn | not what i mean | 19:33 |
| fenn | you may have noticed that a lot of academic papers about 'some magic diy device' get published, but have no accompanying source code or cad files | 19:33 |
| fenn | so you can't actually make the damn thing even if you wanted | 19:34 |
| kanzure | i have a rip of the allenbraininstitute project's data set | 19:34 |
| kanzure | does that count? | 19:34 |
| kanzure | i also parsed the data and extracted a list of genes in the brain | 19:34 |
| fenn | "we programmed a 486 personal computer to emit signals on the parallel port..." | 19:34 |
| fenn | not particularly interested in data sets | 19:35 |
| kanzure | http://github.com/kanzure/brain/tree/master/allenbraininstitute/ | 19:35 |
| kanzure | see brain_genes.yaml | 19:35 |
| fenn | i know you think everything is data, but that's not the focus of skdb | 19:35 |
| kanzure | you asked if there was a brain scanning project that published data | 19:36 |
| fenn | brain engineering is like 20 years in the future, when it actually becomes engineering and not science | 19:36 |
| fenn | gah are you being dense on purpose | 19:36 |
| fenn | i'm talking about the hardware | 19:36 |
| fenn | microkeratomes | 19:36 |
| ybit | that was dumb question earlier 19:14 < ybit> kanzure: are you trying to subclass a module? | 19:37 |
| ybit | why don't you people break out the trout every once in awhile | 19:37 |
| ybit | ..after looking at the code | 19:37 |
| fenn | i am too reactive, usually don't realize when i'm being led up the wrong tree | 19:37 |
| kanzure | fenn: eugen might have something. http://web.archive.org/web/20080203123957/http://minduploading.org/research.html | 19:38 |
| fenn | heh i was looking for that | 19:38 |
| fenn | ok not that in particular | 19:39 |
| fenn | i remember some expensive looking microkeratome+microscope they had made | 19:39 |
| ybit | "s. We design a web platform where people can buy votes with a | 19:39 |
| kanzure | yeah me too | 19:39 |
| ybit | credit card, " | 19:39 |
| ybit | i wouldn't like that | 19:39 |
| kanzure | ybit: sam is talking out of his ass anyway | 19:39 |
| fenn | oh you mean Capitalism 2.0 | 19:41 |
| fenn | "power to the people! (with money)" | 19:41 |
| kanzure | sam's all about making up "funding models" now | 19:41 |
| kanzure | too bad nobody does anything.. | 19:41 |
| ybit | omg, Tier 1 - Innovators is sold out, i didn't believe it at first, but it's true! <b>Sold Out</b> | 19:48 |
| ybit | speaking of doing things | 19:49 |
| ybit | what's with the error pasted above? | 19:49 |
| kanzure | you have your templates screwed up | 19:49 |
| fenn | why do y'all's python always crash at the end of the error log? | 19:54 |
| fenn | *** glibc detected *** /usr/bin/python: double free or corruption (!prev): 0x0a76b9b8 *** | 19:54 |
| fenn | it's not supposed to do that | 19:54 |
| kanzure | mine doesn't | 19:54 |
| kanzure | i think it used to? | 19:55 |
| * ybit doesn't see any templates at http://adl.serveftp.org/skdb/web/templates/ | 19:56 | |
| kanzure | you should be pulling from http://adl.serveftp.org/skdb.git | 19:57 |
| kanzure | http://heybryan.org:8081/package/lego:master/data.yaml/edit | 20:05 |
| kanzure | http://heybryan.org:8081/package/lego:master2/data.yaml/edit | 20:05 |
| kanzure | lookie! it knows you're bullshit :) | 20:05 |
| kanzure | of course, http://heybryan.org:8081/package/lego/data.yaml/edit also works | 20:06 |
| kanzure | the downside is that the code is a mess | 20:06 |
| kanzure | the upside is that i now have pretty URLs :) | 20:06 |
| fenn | you could do a try/except to catch the bad branch error and give a decent error report | 20:08 |
| fenn | anyway gratz on figuring it out | 20:08 |
| fenn | can you write unit tests for cherrypy stuff? | 20:09 |
| fenn | like 'make sure it doesnt screw up' | 20:09 |
| kanzure | looks like you haven't been reading the code | 20:10 |
| kanzure | yes | 20:10 |
| fenn | i havent looked at the code at all, i'm terrified | 20:10 |
| kanzure | stay that way until the site works | 20:11 |
| fenn | equations like "C = C_s + C_L + C_F" are only marginally better than hieroglyphics... | 20:12 |
| fenn | what's wrong with just saying "cost = scrap + labor + foundry-labor" | 20:12 |
| fenn | don't people know pointers are evil | 20:12 |
| CIA-33 | skdb: kanzure * r 3b2fa63 / (5 files in 5 dirs): web.py now partly does urls the way they should be done | 20:14 |
| kanzure | one of the problems right now is that "virtual_path" is parsed in different functions as cherrypy goes down the object tree | 20:15 |
| kanzure | in FileViewer i'm using self.sha and so on, while in other classes/methods i'm parsing the virtual_path | 20:15 |
| kanzure | anyway, just a discrepancy that might confuse people | 20:15 |
| kanzure | so eventually that should be fixed too | 20:15 |
| CIA-33 | skdb: kanzure * r 970d1c1 /.be/bugs/84de54b3-d1c8-437b-9c61-abdee2e26251/values: FileViewer bug report- fix this and you can save some confusion from us all | 20:16 |
| ybit | a quote from a conversation and myself: >> Speaking of assholes, I read somewhere that you were a supreme asshole | 20:16 |
| ybit | >> dictator of some sort, that no one stays there because of it... I read | 20:16 |
| ybit | >> that on some blog oh so many weeks ago, and I was curious what you had | 20:16 |
| ybit | >> to say.. obviously you aren't going to confess to dickhood. And I'm | 20:16 |
| ybit | >> not pointing fingers at you or anyone, heck you're the only person | 20:16 |
| ybit | >> I've communicated to (from my knowledge) that's associated with what's | 20:16 |
| ybit | >> going on there.. I'm just curious and I'm also blunt if you haven't | 20:16 |
| ybit | >> noticed. :-) | 20:16 |
| ybit | > | 20:16 |
| fenn | FileViewer represents a specific file on a specific branch? or a generic reference to a path? | 20:16 |
| ybit | > I'd just say that I want to get stuff done. When people came and wanted to | 20:16 |
| ybit | > freeload, I kicked them out. This blew up majorly, because I'm not the best | 20:16 |
| ybit | > at PR. Some wanted to turn this into a hippie commune, so I responded that I | 20:16 |
| ybit | > will run it like a lab. They had different ideas. And I run dis shit. | 20:16 |
| kanzure | fenn: generic reference to a path, at any SHA, any branch | 20:17 |
| ybit | > | 20:17 |
| ybit | > In this game, it's extremely difficult to find qualified collaborators. This | 20:17 |
| ybit | > is what I found through all of this past year's drama. To avoid unlarity on | 20:17 |
| ybit | > expectations, we now have people here under the format of Dedicated Project | 20:17 |
| ybit | > Visits or Lifetime Investors. I'll be blogging soon on the latter. | 20:17 |
| ybit | > | 20:17 |
| ybit | > This is a much longer discussion, it's quite intriguing indeed - because it | 20:17 |
| ybit | > shows interesting insights on peoples' motivations. I can tell you more when | 20:17 |
| ybit | > we meet if you like. | 20:17 |
| kanzure | yawn | 20:17 |
| kanzure | marcin? | 20:17 |
| ybit | +with marcine and myself | 20:17 |
| ybit | yeah | 20:17 |
| kanzure | fenn: FileViewer is not stored between page reloads | 20:18 |
| fenn | drawma is an unfortunate fact of life | 20:18 |
| kanzure | so the dulwich.repo.Repo object is reinitialized each time | 20:18 |
| kanzure | i don't think this is a problem though | 20:18 |
| fenn | 'at any SHA' doesn't make sense to me.. isn't a SHA a specific commit? | 20:18 |
| ybit | what's with git ignoring my changes to /templates | 20:18 |
| kanzure | fenn: er, sorry | 20:18 |
| kanzure | fenn: yes, but objects are also referenced by SHAs | 20:19 |
| kanzure | so you can say "blah.txt" "when it was this SHA" | 20:19 |
| kanzure | er | 20:19 |
| fenn | please elaborate.. what is an object | 20:19 |
| kanzure | there are three items in git: trees, commits, and blobs | 20:19 |
| kanzure | s/object/blob/ | 20:19 |
| fenn | ok | 20:19 |
| kanzure | there are multiple versions of a file | 20:19 |
| fenn | when i commit to a local repo, it makes a blob, right? | 20:19 |
| kanzure | you can give a blob's SHA, and dulwich will bring up the file at that time | 20:19 |
| kanzure | yes | 20:19 |
| kanzure | and a "commit" object | 20:20 |
| fenn | when i push multiple commits to a remote repo, it makes one blob, right? | 20:20 |
| kanzure | i don't know | 20:20 |
| kanzure | this isn't important.. it's just how i'm describing it to you | 20:20 |
| kanzure | dulwich gives you an SHA with a filename | 20:20 |
| fenn | ok fine.. i am just fuzzy on git internals | 20:20 |
| kanzure | and that SHA returns a dulwich.objects.Blob object when you do a dulwich.repo.Repo.get_object(that_value) on it | 20:21 |
| kanzure | er | 20:21 |
| kanzure | s/that_value/SHA/ | 20:21 |
| fenn | so it's just a hash lookup | 20:21 |
| kanzure | yes | 20:22 |
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| fenn | but a blob can contain multiple files, correct? | 20:22 |
| kanzure | i dunno | 20:22 |
| fenn | well, a commit can, so, yeah | 20:22 |
| fenn | sorry if i'm distracting you needlessly | 20:23 |
| kanzure | hey so uh | 20:23 |
| kanzure | if an anonymous user makes a new branch | 20:23 |
| kanzure | when they edit a file | 20:23 |
| kanzure | how do they edit their edit? | 20:23 |
| kanzure | does it make yet another branch? | 20:23 |
| ybit | feel free to paste a link to the full text of "Methods in Neuronal Modeling - 2nd Edition: From Ions to Networks" or "Biophysics of Computation: Information Processing in Single Neurons" | 20:24 |
| fenn | edit their edit? | 20:24 |
| kanzure | fenn: if they press "save" and then come back a day later | 20:24 |
| fenn | we don't store edit objects | 20:24 |
| kanzure | and update it again | 20:24 |
| kanzure | it will make yet another branch | 20:24 |
| fenn | we use a vcs | 20:24 |
| kanzure | and then you have thousands of anonymous branches.. | 20:24 |
| kanzure | even if it was just one anon | 20:25 |
| fenn | i see | 20:25 |
| fenn | default behavior will be world-writable | 20:25 |
| fenn | so they have no reason to fork | 20:25 |
| fenn | if you want to jealously guard your changes, you have to log in | 20:26 |
| kanzure | yesh but what if it's the "screw.git" package? | 20:26 |
| kanzure | and it's the "master" branch | 20:26 |
| fenn | no point in attributing responsibility/credit to "anonymous" | 20:26 |
| kanzure | they make a change and it makes a new branch | 20:26 |
| kanzure | then they look at their change and say, "hey let's edit it again" | 20:26 |
| fenn | and? anyone can edit that branch | 20:26 |
| kanzure | and they edit their new branch | 20:26 |
| fenn | and it stays on that branch | 20:26 |
| kanzure | this would create yet another branch.. | 20:26 |
| kanzure | why would it? | 20:27 |
| kanzure | so only "master" is non-world-writable? | 20:27 |
| fenn | no, you only fork if you can't edit the existing branch (or some other reason) | 20:27 |
| fenn | correct | 20:27 |
| kanzure | ok, so anonymous users can edit any branch created by another anonymous user | 20:27 |
| kanzure | ok i like it | 20:27 |
| kanzure | er scratch what i just said | 20:27 |
| fenn | no, that's right | 20:27 |
| kanzure | yes but it's easier to remember "only master is non-world-writable" | 20:28 |
| fenn | but that's not necessarily true | 20:28 |
| kanzure | it's also easier to implement for now :) | 20:28 |
| fenn | we will want other non-open branches | 20:28 |
| kanzure | ok | 20:28 |
| kanzure | how will we mark them as such though | 20:28 |
| kanzure | how about a ".whateversitename" file that lists branches that are non-world-writable? | 20:28 |
| fenn | some global config file? ugh | 20:28 |
| fenn | right | 20:29 |
| fenn | i havent thought all that through yet | 20:29 |
| kanzure | and it would either be in "master" (for everything else" or one would appear in each branch? dunno | 20:29 |
| kanzure | ok please do so while i hack at web.py some more :) | 20:29 |
| fenn | all that access control stuff gives me the willies | 20:29 |
| fenn | no i'm busy catching up on email and testing keyboard stuff | 20:29 |
| kanzure | i'm hungry | 20:30 |
| fenn | there's food in the fridge | 20:30 |
| kanzure | apparently salad doesn't fill the stomach | 20:30 |
| fenn | lots of butter in the lentils | 20:30 |
| kanzure | ugh | 20:30 |
| fenn | fine eat a we microwaved hambooger | 20:30 |
| fenn | wet* | 20:30 |
| * katsmeow-afk ponders keelhauling a operating microwave | 20:32 | |
| ybit | fenn, kanzure: why do you not use tags in your git commits? | 20:33 |
| fenn | katsmeow-afk: is that a nautical term? | 20:40 |
| fenn | ybit: what are tags for exactly? | 20:41 |
| ybit | versioning | 20:41 |
| fenn | how do you prevent version collisions? | 20:42 |
| ybit | for me, i can say 'oh' this version was working just fine, let's go back there where it was crashing continually | 20:42 |
| fenn | like say we both tag someting 1.0 and then try to merge | 20:42 |
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| ybit | probably through sha | 20:42 |
| ybit | specifics i don't know, working on that.. | 20:43 |
| fenn | what the emc people do is make a branch for each minor version, then they can apply bug fixes to that branch without adding new bugs | 20:44 |
| fenn | so you have 1.1 branch with a commit tagged 1.0.4 | 20:44 |
| fenn | er, 1.1.4 | 20:44 |
| fenn | so the $100 laptop has come and gone: http://www.liliputing.com/2009/11/menq-easypc-e790-80-and-still-barely-worth-it.html | 20:45 |
| fenn | BY OPENING THIS CARDBOARD BOX, YOU AGREE NOT TO USE THIS MACHINE TO MAKE OTHER FABRICATION MACHINES THAT SELF-REPLICATE! | 20:58 |
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| katsmeow-afk | ok,, then make it make other macines that make other machines, *before* you open it | 21:12 |
| fenn | it's like a fortune cookie.. it only counts if you get the fortune out without breaking the cookie | 21:13 |
| fenn | "think inside the box" | 21:14 |
| QuantumG | just make machines that require human intervention to replicate.. as I expect that's all you can do anyway | 21:19 |
| fenn | no, the context was about existing rapid fabrication machine manufacturers getting worried about their customer base taking over their market | 21:23 |
| fenn | not grey goo wankery | 21:23 |
| QuantumG | ya, so pick the right terminology :) | 21:25 |
| QuantumG | I expect anything other than "don't make machines that compete with our machines in the marketplace of fabrication machines" will fail to stand up in court.. and even that will be seen as an antitrust issue | 21:26 |
| QuantumG | kinda reminds me of the BitKeeper fiasco | 21:26 |
| ybit | i tend to wrap my fortune cookie pieces in tape and claim schrodinger's equation | 21:26 |
| katsmeow-afk | "it's in there, but if you look it likely will not be" | 21:29 |
| ybit | and most of my fortunes come true too "you will have to make a decision soon" "omfg it's right, i don't know if i should pay my ticket or run' | 21:29 |
| ybit | katsmeow-afk: it changes, the point is uncertainty, i've heard the story told that the cat has poison in the box and you don't know it's alive or dead until you look... and so in the fortune cookie scenario, i'm going for "is the cookie broken or not" | 21:32 |
| fenn | i never really understood whether quantum mechanics was actually any more complex than "you don't know it's alive or dead until you look" | 21:34 |
| fenn | and then stuff like this comes along http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delayed_choice_quantum_eraser | 21:35 |
| * katsmeow-afk is pondering trying to tear open a puter psu to make the 3.3v and 12v in series to give 15.3v | 21:36 | |
| fenn | no need to tear it open | 21:36 |
| fenn | but if you have it open already, "just" adjust the voltage pot? | 21:37 |
| katsmeow-afk | sure there is, the 3.3v and 12v share gnd, they can't be series without floating one of the suplies | 21:37 |
| fenn | can you separate the grounds without redesigning the PSU? | 21:37 |
| katsmeow-afk | umm, to push the 12v to 13.6 is 13% overvolting it,, is that so good? | 21:38 |
| katsmeow-afk | sure cut traces, lift wires | 21:38 |
| fenn | meh i'd look for a wall wart.. | 21:38 |
| katsmeow-afk | a 30amp wall wart? | 21:38 |
| katsmeow-afk | got one in mind? | 21:38 |
| fenn | what needs 30 amps at 15.3V? | 21:38 |
| katsmeow-afk | ups battery charger | 21:38 |
| fenn | why does it have to be 13% over? | 21:39 |
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| katsmeow-afk | 12v x 1.13 = 13.6 | 21:39 |
| -!- Netsplit over, joins: bct, ybit, QuantumG, CIA-33, kardan | 21:40 | |
| fenn | um. that doesn't answer the question | 21:40 |
| katsmeow-afk | lead acid charges to 13.6, the psu puts out 12v, among other things,, to reach 13.6 on the 12v output,i'd haveto crank it 13% over volt | 21:41 |
| katsmeow-afk | i doubt any will adjust that far | 21:41 |
| katsmeow-afk | and i dunno it wold be healthy forit | 21:41 |
| fenn | i would just use two psu's | 21:42 |
| fenn | you still have to open one of them to float the ground | 21:42 |
| katsmeow-afk | i have 3 i floated to series the 5v | 21:43 |
| fenn | that's probably better since they're balanced | 21:43 |
| katsmeow-afk | it's sorta bad capital useage | 21:43 |
| fenn | PSU's are a natural resource | 21:43 |
| katsmeow-afk | but a ~$20 natural resource | 21:43 |
| fenn | you're doing it wrong | 21:44 |
| katsmeow-afk | i usually am :-/ | 21:44 |
| kanzure | ybit: did you get the templates working? | 22:12 |
| kanzure | fenn: do you really think the extended verbose discussions going on on the replab list will actually lead to a good idea? | 22:13 |
| fenn | uh.. i dunno | 22:13 |
| kanzure | originally our idea was to put in a minimal amount of information and then figure out good targets for making stuff | 22:13 |
| kanzure | i mean, good projects to start with | 22:13 |
| fenn | restate in the form of an answer please | 22:14 |
| kanzure | one of us should suggest "let's put in some fundamental information and then see what comes out" | 22:14 |
| kanzure | if we do this then we're also working on the infrastructure/system anyway in the process | 22:14 |
| kanzure | and we don't make shitty one-off never-will-be-used-again projects | 22:14 |
| fenn | what one-off projects are you talking about? i havent totally caught up yet | 22:15 |
| kanzure | nothing in particular | 22:16 |
| fenn | like the 9-axis hydraulic robot? | 22:16 |
| ybit | kanzure: yes | 22:21 |
| * ybit needs more visuals for what's going on in the background during python run_web.py | 22:23 | |
| ybit | starting cherrypy webserver | 22:23 |
| ybit | ..doesn't tell me much | 22:23 |
| ybit | there is one warning: Compiling PackageIndex.tmpl -> PackageIndex.py (backup PackageIndex.py.bak) | 22:23 |
| ybit | /usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/Cheetah-2.2.2-py2.5-linux-i686.egg/Cheetah/Compiler.py:1568: UserWarning: You supplied an empty string for the source! warnings.warn("You supplied an empty string for the source!", ) | 22:24 |
| ybit | hah, it would help if i would go to the correct port :P | 22:31 |
| * ybit didn't realized it had changed to 8081 | 22:32 | |
| ybit | s/realized/[blah] | 22:32 |
| * fenn mumbles something about adding version numbers to the header | 22:32 | |
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| fenn | this guy viktor has some neat ideas | 22:41 |
| fenn | n-fold parallel laser spiral lamination rapid prototyping! that's a mouthful | 22:41 |
| kanzure | hey jasonwohlfahrt | 22:49 |
| kanzure | hm my head hurts | 22:50 |
| kanzure | be help depend | 22:55 |
| kanzure | it cites a nature.com paper? hehe | 22:55 |
| kanzure | "The "|--" symbol in the repair-mode output is inspired by the | 22:55 |
| kanzure | "negative feedback" arrow common in biochemistry. See, for example http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v456/n7223/images/nature07513-f5.0.jpg | 22:55 |
| fenn | is "inhibits" semantically equivalent to XOR? | 22:58 |
| kanzure | which way are you asking | 23:03 |
| kanzure | are you trying to understand "inhibits"? or trying to explain a XOR | 23:04 |
| kanzure | it's ok if you're going XOR->inhibits i think | 23:04 |
| CIA-33 | skdb: kanzure * r 6970f4c / (7 files in 7 dirs): lots of tiny and general bug reports | 23:06 |
| kanzure | fenn: what was that python/yaml-based presentation generator? where you just typed an outline, it would create the slides, headings, etc., and even randomly insert images from google image search results? | 23:13 |
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| -!- jasonwohlfahrt [n=chatzill@cpe-67-11-208-33.satx.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] | 23:25 | |
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| ybit | kanzure: what version of be did you use? | 23:37 |
| kanzure | ybit: 330 | 23:38 |
| kanzure | r330, i mean | 23:39 |
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| ybit | is this it? "yml2tex is a Python script which will generate a LaTeX Beamer presentation out of a YAML file." http://code.google.com/p/yml2tex/ and what latexbeamer is: http://latex-beamer.sourceforge.net/ | 23:54 |
| kanzure | no but that's very similar | 23:57 |
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