| --- Day changed Mon Nov 30 2009 | ||
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| neodextrose | http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20427366.100-shrinktofit-spacesuit-eases-astronauts-workload.html | 00:19 |
|---|---|---|
| neodextrose | WEARABLES IN SPACE | 00:19 |
| fenn | a "12 strikes and you're out" bot | 00:22 |
| kanzure | fenn: is it on fennetic.net somewhere? | 00:23 |
| fenn | it = what? | 00:23 |
| kanzure | appleseed | 00:24 |
| fenn | no | 00:24 |
| kanzure | well that's useless | 00:24 |
| fenn | fennetic.net is adl anyway | 00:24 |
| kanzure | so? | 00:24 |
| kanzure | it has big pipes | 00:24 |
| fenn | sorry it's so frigging hard to walk across the room | 00:24 |
| kanzure | wah | 00:24 |
| kanzure | i'm getting up but i want you to know it's for the crackers only | 00:25 |
| neodextrose | if it's hard to walk across the room then make the room smaller | 00:27 |
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| kanzure | http://ymacs.org/ | 00:42 |
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| kanzure | http://gpl.internetconnection.net/vi/ | 00:50 |
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| QuantumG | ah shit | 03:01 |
| QuantumG | Ralph Merkle replied: | 03:01 |
| QuantumG | Check out http://www.youtube.com/singularityu | 03:01 |
| QuantumG | Singularity University (www.singularityu.org) is fun! | 03:01 |
| QuantumG | there goes a good researcher to religion | 03:01 |
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| zignig | greetings earthlings. | 06:01 |
| zignig | hmmm , gmt+8 must be snoozy time for the rest of the skdb crew .... | 06:17 |
| zignig | :) | 06:17 |
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| ybit | ~/names | 09:41 |
| ybit | buenos dias amigos | 09:43 |
| ybit | pythonocc successfully compiled while i slept the night away | 09:43 |
| ybit | so maybe we'll have a .deb by the end of the day | 09:44 |
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| genehacker | is there a name for the reverse of projection mapping? | 10:24 |
| genehacker | err... projection mapping might not be the right word | 10:25 |
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| ybit_ | kanzure: could you try getting in touch with jennifer today? | 12:21 |
| ybit_ | ..or ashlee | 12:27 |
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| kanzure | ybit: no. their phone system sucks. | 12:45 |
| kanzure | http://www.alankennington.com/philo/eng.html | 12:46 |
| kanzure | http://openhardware.eventbrite.com/ | 12:49 |
| genehacker | what's this alan kennington stuff? | 13:05 |
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| fenn | alan kennington is of the "ugly as possible URL" school of thought | 13:14 |
| kanzure | example? | 13:33 |
| kanzure | i think i met alan in 2006 | 13:33 |
| kanzure | er, on the net | 13:33 |
| fenn | http://www.alankennington.com/philo/eng.html?$Version=1&$Path=\"/\"&$Domain=\".alankennington.com\" | 13:33 |
| kanzure | oh shit | 13:33 |
| fenn | this was after the 'human test' which involved clicking on a link | 13:34 |
| kanzure | so you're definitely a human now, fenn :) | 13:34 |
| kanzure | congratulations | 13:34 |
| kanzure | hey so why did they make a person's presence in a certain location the on/off switch for a super-ai? | 13:35 |
| fenn | eh? | 13:36 |
| fenn | it was otherwise preoccupied, until you meddling children disturbed it | 13:37 |
| kanzure | what? in appleseed | 13:37 |
| fenn | oh, um, i forget | 13:37 |
| genehacker | what's all this about appleseed? | 13:37 |
| genehacker | and how does one determine what size endmill it takes to cut features of a certain size? | 13:38 |
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| kanzure | fenn: one thing i like about github is they support gpg git push/pull | 13:46 |
| kanzure | i would like to implement that on web.py | 13:46 |
| kanzure | but does this mean i need to implement the custom git:// protocol? | 13:46 |
| kanzure | or is that just ssh? | 13:46 |
| fenn | git:// is its own protocol; i guess you could tunnel it over ssh. what's this about gpg? | 13:47 |
| kanzure | on github you give them your public key | 13:47 |
| kanzure | so you can push to github without password authentication | 13:47 |
| fenn | ok | 13:47 |
| kanzure | i'm pretty sure this is a Good Thing | 13:48 |
| kanzure | do you know of any git-daemons? | 13:48 |
| kanzure | http://devhobby.blogspot.com/2008/04/quickie-git-daemon.html | 13:48 |
| kanzure | ah i guess i can just implement --base-path | 13:49 |
| kanzure | er, use | 13:49 |
| kanzure | but that doesn't explain how to do access control. hrm.. | 13:49 |
| kanzure | http://github.com/blog/112-supercharged-git-daemon | 13:49 |
| kanzure | heh "With egitd we can inject reasonable error responses into the response instead of just closing the connection and leaving the user bewildered. Behold!" | 13:50 |
| kanzure | http://github.com/mojombo/egitd | 13:51 |
| kanzure | erlang? really? | 13:51 |
| kanzure | "In 1998, the AXD301 switch was announced, containing over a million lines of Erlang, and reported to achieve a reliability of nine "9"s. Shortly thereafter, Erlang was banned within Ericsson Radio Systems for new products, citing a preference for non-proprietary languages." | 13:53 |
| kanzure | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erlang_(programming_language) | 13:53 |
| kanzure | http://tom.preston-werner.com/ | 13:55 |
| fenn | i love all the random 1980's stuff in appleseed, like denim vests and beige telephones and dot matrix printers | 13:55 |
| kanzure | yes it was a nice touch | 13:57 |
| kanzure | i like how they made it look like it was made in the 80s | 13:57 |
| kanzure | shit! | 13:59 |
| kanzure | "I wanted to remind you know about a seminar today in ETC 4.120 at 3:00 pm. The speaker is Tolga Kurtoglu. He is a Research Scientist with NASA Ames Research Center. The title of his seminar is "Designing Health Management Systems for Next Generation Aerospace Vehicles." Attached is the flyer. Thanks.I wanted to remind you know about a seminar today in ETC 4.120 at 3:00 pm. The speaker is Tolga Kurtoglu. He is a Research Scientist with NASA Ames Research Center. The title of his seminar is "Designing Health Management Systems for Next Generation Aerospace Vehicles." Attached is the flyer. Thanks." | 13:59 |
| genehacker | dammit | 14:00 |
| genehacker | I have statistics at that time | 14:00 |
| genehacker | hmmm... | 14:00 |
| genehacker | ETC 4.120 | 14:00 |
| genehacker | not too far from statistics | 14:00 |
| kanzure | tolga wrote an interesting paper recently | 14:01 |
| genehacker | about? | 14:01 |
| genehacker | are you on floor 4? | 14:01 |
| kanzure | about fault failure propagation and analysis/prediction in mechanical designs | 14:01 |
| kanzure | no i'm at home | 14:01 |
| genehacker | hmmm... | 14:02 |
| genehacker | time to head to etc | 14:02 |
| kanzure | http://erikonrails.wordpress.com/2008/05/11/how-to-get-gitorious-running-on-your-own-server/ | 14:05 |
| kanzure | fenn: do you have the outline yet? | 14:14 |
| fenn | no | 14:15 |
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| kanzure | genehacker: are you going to make tolga's presentation? it's at 3pm ETC 4.120 | 14:32 |
| genehacker | probably not | 14:33 |
| genehacker | I have a statistics class | 14:33 |
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| kanzure | http://rocklinux.net/mailman/listinfo/openscad | 14:48 |
| kanzure | http://groups.google.com/group/makerbot hm.. | 14:49 |
| kanzure | 4k messages to makerbot@googlegroups.com ? wtf | 14:49 |
| kanzure | http://studentuniverse.com/ cheap plane tickets if you have a .edu address (via parijata) | 14:50 |
| fenn | why does everyone love university students so much | 14:51 |
| ybit | kanzure: if you haven't already i'll send an email to let them know that we've tried contacting them several times through the phone, and request that they call your number | 15:00 |
| kanzure | okay that's fine | 15:01 |
| ybit | nice find in studentuniverse.com | 15:05 |
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| ybit | the factory seed mentioned in ksrm is massive | 15:09 |
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| ybit | not even halfway thought through: if possible, it would be nice to aim for reproduction instead of replication so that mutations occur and evolution might take place | 15:11 |
| fenn | no | 15:11 |
| ybit | just in case the human race is doomed | 15:11 |
| fenn | mutations are almost always bad | 15:11 |
| fenn | we don't have the luxury of getting it wrong | 15:11 |
| ybit | but in case of a doomsday scenerio, maybe mutation can be a good thing, some rules which make sure productivity is being made could programmed in and if a certain quota isn't made, it resets to what is being produced? | 15:14 |
| ybit | just a thought | 15:14 |
| fenn | in case of doomsday scenario, whether it's being productive or not isn't the problem | 15:15 |
| kanzure | stfu and gimme that outline | 15:16 |
| kanzure | gimme gimme gimme | 15:16 |
| fenn | wtf write your own outline | 15:16 |
| kanzure | what? | 15:16 |
| kanzure | i thought you said.. | 15:16 |
| kanzure | ka;;kja;kal | 15:17 |
| fenn | i said we'd write outlines and then shuffle around the bits we want to talk about until they're contiguous | 15:17 |
| ybit | if it's carrying our knowledge, i would want it to grow instead of just working away on the moon with no chance of evolving into anything more | 15:17 |
| kanzure | so what are you doing then? | 15:17 |
| fenn | looking at makerbot mailing list :x | 15:17 |
| fenn | and the power rangers database | 15:19 |
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| ybit | nap-time and the .deb finishing time | 15:19 |
| ybit | s/the/then | 15:20 |
| bkero | Cheapest way to do genetic testing at home? | 15:27 |
| kanzure | what type of testing | 15:27 |
| kanzure | for specific SNPs? | 15:28 |
| kanzure | or for the presence of a gene? i guarantee that you probably have the same genes as the rest of us .. ;-) | 15:28 |
| bkero | Just testing the expression of random genes :P | 15:31 |
| kanzure | so you want to look for promoters in front of genes? for instance certain promoters up-promote expression | 15:32 |
| fenn | if you're really testing for expression you need RTPCR | 15:32 |
| fenn | not exactly a cheap diy thing | 15:32 |
| bkero | Cheap on labx? | 15:32 |
| fenn | dunno | 15:33 |
| bkero | Some old shit: http://www.labx.com/v2/spiderdealer2/vistaSearchDetails.cfm?LVid=5352280 | 15:34 |
| kanzure | RuntimeError: Set changed size during iteration | 16:04 |
| fenn | i wonder where all the reels are supposed to go http://www.ladyada.net/wiki/_detail/mdcpickandplace/4059204178_04e78217e3.jpg?id=mdcpickandplace%3Aaccessories | 16:04 |
| kanzure | a set isn't supposed to change size? wah | 16:04 |
| kanzure | the part of my brain that writes clean/pretty recursion must be turned off | 16:07 |
| fenn | so a reel feeder like this is $500-$1000 new http://i.ebayimg.com/04/!BWTf-sw!mk~$(KGrHgoOKjUEjlLmTEG6BKW0k!wkDw~~_12.JPG | 16:15 |
| fenn | supposedly they're a major part of the cost of pick and place electronics assembly machines | 16:15 |
| fenn | but wtf that looks so easy to make | 16:15 |
| kanzure | what a terribe url | 16:15 |
| kanzure | i mean, what the *fuck* | 16:15 |
| fenn | it's designed for maximum entropy | 16:16 |
| kanzure | it's designed for pissing me off | 16:16 |
| kanzure | this is a feeder for smt rolls? | 16:16 |
| fenn | yes | 16:16 |
| fenn | search.ebay.com/170358924351 | 16:17 |
| fenn | i dont know why someone would be selling one feeder though | 16:17 |
| fenn | oh nm he's selling 12 | 16:17 |
| kanzure | http://heybryan.org:8081/package/lego/data.yaml/:log | 16:19 |
| kanzure | gah that sucked. | 16:19 |
| kanzure | but it works now. | 16:19 |
| kanzure | er | 16:19 |
| kanzure | http://heybryan.org:8081/package/lego:anonymous/data.yaml/:log | 16:19 |
| kanzure | well that's not right.. | 16:19 |
| kanzure | that was the parent of the anonymous-branch-only-commit | 16:19 |
| kanzure | but there's only one commit on branch anonymous | 16:19 |
| fenn | the second url gives me that "does not exist" error | 16:20 |
| fenn | if i add / to the end of the url i can get the page | 16:20 |
| kanzure | i keep asking you to try it with my ip address and see what happens, since the error message always talks about heybryan.org | 16:21 |
| kanzure | 192.168.1.102 | 16:21 |
| fenn | it just does the same thing with s/heybryan/ip | 16:21 |
| kanzure | what a weird error.. wget doesn't give it to me | 16:21 |
| fenn | i think it's something to do with not sending headers | 16:21 |
| kanzure | i'm not sending headers? | 16:21 |
| fenn | i dont really know what is going on, sorry | 16:22 |
| kanzure | me either. so i'm going to ignore this for now | 16:23 |
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| kanzure | oh. i wrote get_all_parents and assumed i had put in the start/initial commit. | 16:27 |
| kanzure | guess that's not a parent huh | 16:27 |
| kanzure | there we go, much better | 16:28 |
| kanzure | http://heybryan.org:8081/package/lego:anonymous/data.yaml/e13f22fcd98f9fc6a39dd436e39f85c4013d2a08/:log/ | 16:29 |
| kanzure | there should be a commit that says "not implemented yet" near the top | 16:29 |
| kanzure | now with links to the individual blobs | 16:31 |
| kanzure | hm should /package/lego:anonymous/b4b3ff0b3940d95754ff8ffe68ee846b9d80919b (for a specific tree) work? because it doesn't | 16:32 |
| kanzure | well this sucks. on branch "master" there's only one commit: http://heybryan.org:8081/package/lego:master/data.yaml/2e8070856018dc79777ad070036f854f77bf9ba6/:log | 16:33 |
| fenn | i thought this was working yesterday | 16:35 |
| kanzure | no logs were not working | 16:35 |
| fenn | http://heybryan.org:8081/package/lego/:log | 16:35 |
| kanzure | er | 16:36 |
| kanzure | it works for me | 16:36 |
| fenn | only without branch specified | 16:36 |
| kanzure | i'm doing individual file logs | 16:36 |
| fenn | ok | 16:36 |
| kanzure | (which weren't working yesterday) | 16:36 |
| fenn | hey i know it's not nearly as interesting but could you do an intro page that lists all the packages? | 16:37 |
| kanzure | lemme fix that last branch "master" log bug on individual files, and then i'll do that | 16:38 |
| kanzure | huh? now it randomly started working? | 16:43 |
| kanzure | and refreshing breaks it | 16:43 |
| kanzure | beautiful | 16:43 |
| kanzure | heh so it works the first time you call it (after booting up the server), but not the second | 16:45 |
| ybit | grr, i built it in the wrong directory | 16:48 |
| ybit | i have to recompile | 16:49 |
| * ybit cries | 16:49 | |
| kanzure | why not just move it | 16:49 |
| ybit | because i don't know exactly what all it did and i don't want to cipher through setup.py to find out | 16:52 |
| ybit | i would say my reputation's on the line, but i think it's been squashed awhile back | 16:52 |
| kanzure | fenn: http://heybryan.org:8081/package/ there be yer index | 16:56 |
| kanzure | hm, threads doesn't seem to work | 16:56 |
| fenn | thx | 16:56 |
| fenn | is cia down or are you just not committing regularly? | 16:59 |
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| kanzure | not committing | 17:05 |
| kanzure | sorry | 17:05 |
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| kanzure | fenn: are you able to skdb.Package("threads") ? | 17:08 |
| CIA-33 | skdb: Heath Matlock * r d1e3b26 /doc/installing: It was incorrect, you don't need quote space. | 17:09 |
| CIA-33 | skdb: Heath Matlock * r c193798 / (8 files in 6 dirs): Merge branch 'master' of ssh://adl.serveftp.org/var/www/skdb | 17:09 |
| kanzure | ybit: pull before you commit. also, become friends with "git stash" :) | 17:09 |
| ybit | yeah, that was my bad | 17:10 |
| * fenn is wondering what the point of the bearing package is | 17:12 | |
| kanzure | probably little to nothing | 17:12 |
| kanzure | i think i made it in july just to make yet-another-package-to-test | 17:12 |
| kanzure | there we go: http://heybryan.org:8081/package/threads/ | 17:16 |
| kanzure | the problem was that yaml freaked because "data.yaml" was empty | 17:16 |
| kanzure | i filed a bug report on that (it's bug:18e) so eventually that should be fixed in skdb.git | 17:17 |
| kanzure | ybit: gah! | 17:19 |
| kanzure | -sed -i -e '144s/ = \[/ = \[\'-classic\', \'-nomodernargs\', /' wrapper/environment.py | 17:19 |
| kanzure | +sed -i -e '144s/ = \[/ = \[ -classic , -nomodernargs, /' wrapper/environment.py | 17:19 |
| kanzure | noooo, they need to be in quotes :( | 17:19 |
| CIA-33 | skdb: kanzure * r 9f3427a / (8 files in 6 dirs): commit logs for individual files; various bug fixes on web.py; lotta bug reports. | 17:21 |
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| kanzure | hey jason | 17:22 |
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| CIA-33 | skdb: fenn * r 1bcbfd2 /packages/ (5 files in 4 dirs): added icons for each package | 17:26 |
| fenn | ok so these cheetah things seem to be autogenerated | 17:26 |
| fenn | can i get a simple readme how to redo them? | 17:28 |
| fenn | is it just cheetah compile *.tmpl ? | 17:29 |
| fenn | and if so why did you commit all that crap | 17:29 |
| CIA-33 | skdb: fenn * r cbf960f /web/templates/footer.tmpl: nobody cares about omnifab.org | 17:33 |
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| kanzure | fenn: what crap? it should just be .tmpl files | 17:43 |
| fenn | i must have generated them earlier and forgotten? | 17:46 |
| fenn | weird | 17:46 |
| fenn | what is all the TLD crap? | 17:48 |
| fenn | it shouldnt have to download anythig to start a friggin web server | 17:49 |
| kanzure | are you reviewing web.py | 17:49 |
| fenn | i'm trying to run the stupid thing so i can see my changes before committing them | 17:49 |
| ybit | kanzure: ah, i see what you mean :\ i fail | 17:56 |
| ybit | Thank you for shopping at Newegg.com. | 17:58 |
| ybit | We regret to inform you that your order could not be completed | 17:58 |
| ybit | bastards | 17:58 |
| kanzure | here are the git repositories: http://adl.serveftp.org/~bryan/packages/ | 17:58 |
| kanzure | or a zip file: | 17:58 |
| kanzure | http://adl.serveftp.org/~bryan/packages.zip | 17:58 |
| kanzure | these are not the current ones that heybryan.org:8081 is running off of, but they are close enough | 17:58 |
| kanzure | put them in /usr/local/share/skdb/ | 17:58 |
| fenn | that must be before you did gc --aggressive | 17:59 |
| kanzure | fenn: i think one of your walls is fake | 18:00 |
| kanzure | it explains the acoustics, the temperature, and everything | 18:00 |
| fenn | the one that goes outside | 18:00 |
| fenn | yeah | 18:00 |
| fenn | i'm not entirely convinced the window closes | 18:00 |
| kanzure | it's just a hologram | 18:00 |
| fenn | a hologram i spent two hours scraping the paint overspray off of | 18:01 |
| kanzure | ok i ran aggressive on all of them (they are not in the zip file yet) | 18:01 |
| kanzure | ok now they are :) | 18:02 |
| fenn | what does a git daemon do exactly? | 18:02 |
| fenn | allow git:// protocol? | 18:02 |
| * kanzure nods | 18:02 | |
| kanzure | so you can push, pull, etc. | 18:03 |
| kanzure | pushing is kinda important no? | 18:03 |
| fenn | i guess | 18:03 |
| kanzure | can we just make them use ssh? | 18:03 |
| fenn | i hate thinking about that stuff | 18:03 |
| fenn | where is a cracker when you need one | 18:03 |
| kanzure | the food item? | 18:03 |
| fenn | lego is out of sync already; its missing the png's | 18:06 |
| kanzure | oops | 18:06 |
| kanzure | uh | 18:06 |
| kanzure | do you want me to fix this or do you want to take a stab at it | 18:06 |
| fenn | git rm packages; git commit -m'packages are now in separate git repos' ? | 18:07 |
| kanzure | yes | 18:07 |
| kanzure | and i'll split them off before i pull that | 18:07 |
| fenn | i guess there is some documentation to update as well | 18:07 |
| fenn | hm well it really doesn't work on my machine very well | 18:08 |
| kanzure | what doesn't? | 18:08 |
| fenn | lots of localhost does not exist stuff, then i get weird vpath errors sporadically | 18:09 |
| kanzure | fenn: files in a package are pulled from the repository, so if the .png isn't committed, it shouldn't show up | 18:12 |
| fenn | oh duh | 18:12 |
| kanzure | fenn: can you upload your .git's to adl:/home/bryan/public_html/packages/ so we can use them as the officially-branched-repos? | 18:31 |
| kanzure | er, not branched, but yeah | 18:31 |
| kanzure | er | 18:38 |
| kanzure | http://adl.serveftp.org/skdb-packages/ where'd these come from | 18:38 |
| fenn | mitosified | 18:39 |
| kanzure | whoever this "bryan" fellow is, he's on the ball | 18:39 |
| kanzure | back in august | 18:39 |
| fenn | i know you have a time machine hidden in that storage space over by the airport | 18:39 |
| kanzure | i used it to make myself look 20 years younger | 18:40 |
| kanzure | http://adl.serveftp.org/~bryan/screenshots/2009-11-06-4.jpg | 18:40 |
| kanzure | http://adl.serveftp.org/~bryan/screenshots/2009-11-29-144040.jpg | 18:40 |
| fenn | why do webcams output high pixel count pictures if the actual resolution sucks so bad | 18:41 |
| kanzure | no that's just how i look | 18:41 |
| kanzure | all pixelated | 18:41 |
| kanzure | fenn: do we want .git's or the working directories? | 18:47 |
| CIA-33 | skdb: kanzure * r c2f93af / (38 files in 6 dirs): updated skdb-get.py, moved packages to the server. | 19:06 |
| genehacker | who's the guy trying to reboot SEDS? | 19:10 |
| kanzure | hal runs an austin space exploration meetup group | 19:10 |
| genehacker | also why's he doing it during finals? | 19:10 |
| kanzure | dunno, ask him | 19:10 |
| QuantumG | at Texas A&M? | 19:12 |
| kanzure | utexas.edu | 19:12 |
| kanzure | texas a&m already has one | 19:12 |
| QuantumG | right ok | 19:12 |
| genehacker | I wonder if one could start a replicator club | 19:12 |
| genehacker | focused on building self-replicating automata... | 19:12 |
| QuantumG | start yourself a basic warp core maintenance club while you're at it | 19:16 |
| genehacker | you have insufficient science points to do so | 19:17 |
| genehacker | err... I guess it's really more of an engineering problem at this stage | 19:18 |
| genehacker | after all it takes a casimir capacitor the size of jupiter to get high enough negative energy density to do so... | 19:19 |
| QuantumG | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdKyf8fsH6w | 19:20 |
| QuantumG | I know its important to teach the next generation and all, and if this stops Merkle burning out that's a good thing too, but there's gotta be a better way than luring the guy away from his work. | 19:23 |
| kanzure | QuantumG: so, did you hear us ranting about singularityuniversity wehn it came out? | 19:24 |
| kanzure | i mean, do you know about all the scandals and bullshit behind it | 19:24 |
| QuantumG | ya | 19:24 |
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| QuantumG | I don't know the scandals no | 19:24 |
| kanzure | QuantumG: ok just checking. i have nothing to add :) just stay the fuck away from it | 19:24 |
| kanzure | hm, okay | 19:24 |
| QuantumG | umm.. they're cooks | 19:24 |
| kanzure | well i'm sure there's a story on the web about peter diamandis | 19:24 |
| QuantumG | I know a lot about peter diamandis | 19:25 |
| kanzure | basically he did this same thing for "space university" | 19:25 |
| kanzure | it's just a money pit for him | 19:25 |
| kanzure | and if you look at the curriculum it's really not that impressive.. | 19:25 |
| QuantumG | ya do know that peter diamandis is not in it for the money though right.. if he's after money it's because he wants to chase the dream | 19:26 |
| kanzure | are you kidding me? $30k for 9 weeks of crap? | 19:26 |
| kanzure | if he really wanted to "live the dream" he'd just give them a shop with tools | 19:26 |
| kanzure | and let them get to work | 19:26 |
| Utopiah | have to pay for the gorgeous design. | 19:26 |
| kanzure | for the what? | 19:26 |
| Utopiah | they have a blazon | 19:27 |
| QuantumG | ya, I'm definitely not defending the institution | 19:27 |
| QuantumG | "money making scam" sounds about accurate | 19:27 |
| kanzure | okie dokie | 19:28 |
| kanzure | just making sure you're not signing up or something | 19:28 |
| QuantumG | but don't go thinking that Diamandis is trying to make money to buy a nice big house or something | 19:28 |
| kanzure | there's a lot of drama around this group of people | 19:28 |
| kanzure | it's totally useless drama too | 19:28 |
| QuantumG | hehe, they're nuts.. and they attract suckers. | 19:29 |
| kanzure | do you think i'm nuts? | 19:29 |
| kanzure | just wondering. a lot of singularity topics seem to be dead on. just they're doing the totally wrong things.. | 19:30 |
| ybit | i wouldn't call all the speakers at the singularity uni. or summit nuts | 19:30 |
| QuantumG | umm.. the speakers are mostly suckers | 19:31 |
| ybit | boyden, hessel.. | 19:31 |
| QuantumG | or just happy to have a platform | 19:31 |
| kanzure | true that | 19:32 |
| kanzure | what is boyden doing there? | 19:32 |
| QuantumG | if you think "the singularity is coming" because Kurzweil told you so, you're a sucker. If you still think the singularity is coming after you've discovered that most the crap that comes out of Kurzweil is inaccurate speculation with no scientific backing, then you're a nut. | 19:33 |
| ybit | i can agree to that | 19:33 |
| genehacker | the singularity won't come if you wait for it | 19:33 |
| kanzure | i came "this close" to meeting kurzweil once. he didn't look well | 19:33 |
| fenn | thanks for your vote of confidence. /me goes back to email thread deriding his other ideas | 19:34 |
| kanzure | fenn: what? | 19:34 |
| fenn | twister | 19:34 |
| kanzure | vote of confidence on what? | 19:34 |
| QuantumG | but if you think "there's interesting science being done and this is where a lot of interesting people who are doing it are coming together" then you're just putting up with the crazies :) | 19:34 |
| fenn | "If you still think the singularity is coming after you've discovered that most the crap that comes out of Kurzweil is inaccurate speculation with no scientific backing, then you're a nut." | 19:34 |
| kanzure | QuantumG: i keep hoping that singinst.org will grow some balls and start directing some money to people doing cool shit | 19:34 |
| fenn | kurzweil could be off by twenty orders of magnitude and still eventually be proved right | 19:35 |
| genehacker | I thought they were going to fund a replicator x-prize once | 19:35 |
| kanzure | QuantumG: it sounds like you're new to this? | 19:35 |
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| kanzure | genehacker: not an x-prize but there was going to be a "vnc prize", yes | 19:35 |
| kanzure | the guy never got back with me | 19:35 |
| QuantumG | they've gotta build their power base first.. it's brand new, they'll take decades to get any endowments together that are worth a damn. | 19:35 |
| genehacker | VNC prize? | 19:35 |
| kanzure | von neumann machine prize. i dunno why it was "c" though | 19:36 |
| fenn | constructor | 19:36 |
| kanzure | thanks | 19:36 |
| fenn | von neumann machine typically refers to the computer architecture | 19:36 |
| kanzure | QuantumG: ah you're of the camp "it takes billions of dollars to do anything interesting"? | 19:36 |
| kanzure | fenn: i agree | 19:36 |
| genehacker | I want to build one based around the stuff in that cyclic fabrication paper | 19:36 |
| QuantumG | kanzure: let's say million dollar prize instead | 19:37 |
| kanzure | prize? | 19:37 |
| kanzure | sorry what are we talking about? | 19:37 |
| kanzure | did the threads just cross | 19:37 |
| fenn | you could accomplish a lot just by paying for peoples' living expenses for a certain number of years | 19:37 |
| QuantumG | ya, that'll be the tact they'll go with | 19:37 |
| QuantumG | xprize stylez | 19:38 |
| kanzure | i don't think they'll do anything | 19:38 |
| genehacker | slavery fenn? | 19:38 |
| kanzure | that's why i'm here... | 19:38 |
| kanzure | genehacker: patronage | 19:38 |
| fenn | genehacker: nobody said you had to do it.. you're free to pursue your own brand of economic slavery | 19:38 |
| QuantumG | nah.. that's considered too old way | 19:38 |
| kanzure | are you drunk? | 19:39 |
| fenn | yeah now we have VC :( | 19:39 |
| fenn | 51% of whatever you do | 19:39 |
| QuantumG | they prefer the "here's an incentive to encourage competition, now spend more than the prize money to win the prize" | 19:39 |
| kanzure | QuantumG: the xprize was originally a scam | 19:39 |
| kanzure | wasn't it you who was telling me this? | 19:39 |
| kanzure | sigh | 19:39 |
| fenn | why was xprize a scam? | 19:40 |
| QuantumG | s/originally/ | 19:40 |
| kanzure | fenn: they got some people to say "this is impossible", got an insurance company to insure against it, but they already had a winning tech solution | 19:40 |
| kanzure | so they just entered their own competition and won the money | 19:40 |
| fenn | oh it's not a scam if you're playing against the actuaries :) | 19:41 |
| QuantumG | at least with the GLXP they've finally come out and admitted it.. the prize is insufficient to cover the expense of winning it. It only makes sense to compete if you have found other funding sources for your attempt. | 19:41 |
| genehacker | haha the x-prize was a scam? | 19:41 |
| kanzure | maybe "scam" isn't the right word | 19:41 |
| kanzure | um. | 19:41 |
| fenn | creative fundraising solution | 19:42 |
| kanzure | yeah, go with that | 19:42 |
| kanzure | fenn: do you want me to display the icons, or will you edit web.py to do that | 19:43 |
| fenn | i'll let you do that | 19:43 |
| genehacker | so more like bet | 19:43 |
| QuantumG | the rules for the NGLLC were created in this fashion: "how can we get NASA to give some money to Armadillo Aerospace?" "without claiming their work?" "yeah" "We need a prize that Armadillo can win in the first or second year.. NASA puts up the prize money." "Yeah, but they'll never pay the management costs." "That's ok, we'll get another sponsor for that." "Sweet." | 19:43 |
| fenn | 10m is peanuts compared to nasa's budget anyway | 19:44 |
| QuantumG | blood from a stone | 19:44 |
| fenn | it's not even statistical noise | 19:44 |
| fenn | my high school cost $45M to renovate (something like that) | 19:45 |
| QuantumG | if anyone wins the GLXP who will it be? | 19:45 |
| genehacker | isn't 15 million the cost fo the rotating tether thing? | 19:45 |
| QuantumG | come on... you guys know this right? | 19:45 |
| fenn | spacex? | 19:45 |
| kanzure | fenn: my district made a new high school during my compulsory attendance. $99M. | 19:45 |
| QuantumG | sigh. Odyssey Moon is the leader in the GLXP race | 19:46 |
| QuantumG | Odyssey Moon is run by.. | 19:46 |
| fenn | there's a "race"? | 19:46 |
| fenn | i havent been paying attention to this crap | 19:46 |
| QuantumG | Bob Richards | 19:46 |
| kanzure | QuantumG: what happened to team frednet? | 19:46 |
| fenn | since it's totally worthless and pointless in the end | 19:46 |
| kanzure | have they got their act together yet? | 19:46 |
| QuantumG | Frednet have a good chance. | 19:46 |
| kanzure | i was on their team for a while | 19:46 |
| fenn | we dont need a moon race, we need economically significant low earth orbit industry | 19:46 |
| QuantumG | Bob Richards was the founder of SEDS Canada | 19:47 |
| fenn | and a low cost earth to orbit transport infrastructure | 19:47 |
| genehacker | the tether thing right? | 19:47 |
| QuantumG | Peter Diamandis was the founder of SEDS USA | 19:47 |
| QuantumG | both of them are Singularity University heads | 19:47 |
| QuantumG | ... do ya see the pattern yet. | 19:47 |
| kanzure | lots of bullshit? | 19:47 |
| kanzure | an old boy's club? | 19:47 |
| fenn | QuantumG: did it ever occur to you that out of the 0.01% of people who actually have money, very few of them are interested in cool stuff like going to the moon | 19:48 |
| QuantumG | they have a shared vision of "Exporation and Development of Space" .. so they scratch each other's backs. | 19:48 |
| kanzure | yeah instead of actually doing shit that matters | 19:48 |
| QuantumG | yes, it's an old boy's club | 19:48 |
| QuantumG | .. that's the shit they think matters | 19:49 |
| kanzure | corporate space tech? no thanks | 19:49 |
| kanzure | that's why i picked frednet | 19:49 |
| fenn | better than no space tech | 19:49 |
| kanzure | but even they seem to have some issues (not much) | 19:49 |
| fenn | frednet is a joke | 19:49 |
| kanzure | probably | 19:49 |
| QuantumG | it's better than thinking "what matters" is lining their own pockets | 19:49 |
| fenn | not even as funny as virgle | 19:49 |
| QuantumG | or making their family dynasty rich | 19:49 |
| kanzure | i'm having some trouble following you over here. are you trying ot make a point? | 19:50 |
| kanzure | like "nothing matters except for these people because they have money"? | 19:50 |
| fenn | as far as space development, yes | 19:50 |
| QuantumG | umm.. they're actually doing stuff.. if you think you don't need money to do stuff.. do it, come back when you have the counterexample. | 19:50 |
| kanzure | you don't think i'm doing anything? | 19:50 |
| QuantumG | I think I've made that clear for the last 5 years or so man | 19:51 |
| kanzure | then why are you here? | 19:51 |
| kanzure | you obviously don't like any of this | 19:51 |
| QuantumG | honestly? cause you emailed me and asked me to come back :) | 19:51 |
| kanzure | i guess you need to make it clear that you don't care | 19:51 |
| QuantumG | that and you guys are actually intelligent | 19:51 |
| QuantumG | and I like talking to intelligent people | 19:52 |
| kanzure | s/need/needed/ | 19:52 |
| kanzure | nothing wrong with that | 19:52 |
| fenn | i'm sick of people telling me i'm so smart and refusing to actually help me do anything | 19:52 |
| fenn | or listen to what i'm saying | 19:52 |
| QuantumG | what? | 19:52 |
| QuantumG | :) | 19:52 |
| kanzure | fenn: http://heybryan.org:8081/package/ | 19:54 |
| kanzure | eww | 19:54 |
| genehacker | try using a megaphone | 19:54 |
| fenn | i was thinking squares with the text centered underneath each icon | 19:54 |
| kanzure | but they aren't squares | 19:55 |
| fenn | close enough | 19:55 |
| kanzure | heh | 19:55 |
| kanzure | okay | 19:55 |
| fenn | hey why does threads have a white background.. thought i fixed that | 19:55 |
| genehacker | that's pretty fancy | 19:56 |
| genehacker | now if you only had a section on how cutting tools are made from other cutting tools | 19:56 |
| kanzure | IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: '/home/kanzure/local/packages-skdb/lego/.git/HEAD' | 19:56 |
| kanzure | idjfladjfladkjfal; | 19:56 |
| kanzure | woopsies | 19:56 |
| fenn | kanzure: see? it's easy to impress idiots with shiny icons | 19:56 |
| genehacker | really it is | 19:57 |
| kanzure | wtf | 19:57 |
| genehacker | if you add enough maybe you could convince a venture capitalist to fund you | 19:57 |
| kanzure | why would they fund something that makes no money | 19:58 |
| genehacker | twitter... | 19:58 |
| kanzure | they had every media outlet eating their poops | 19:58 |
| kanzure | not a good example | 19:58 |
| CIA-33 | skdb: kanzure * r 685dd5f /web/web.py: display icons on the package index | 19:59 |
| CIA-33 | skdb: kanzure * r b20d9a7 /clients/skdb-get.py: fixed permission problem leftovers from skdb-get.py | 19:59 |
| fenn | if you want to fix the thread icon for me: http://fennetic.net/irc/icon.png | 20:00 |
| kanzure | someone forgot the magic colors :) | 20:01 |
| * fenn blames imagemagick | 20:01 | |
| fenn | i guess we should setup cia for the packages too | 20:04 |
| kanzure | and git push/pull please | 20:05 |
| kanzure | hm.. this is going to get messy | 20:05 |
| fenn | git pull doesn't copy hooks, so it should be fine | 20:05 |
| kanzure | packages are adl:/var/www/skdb-packages/ | 20:05 |
| fenn | s/pull/clone/ | 20:06 |
| kanzure | by messy i mean.. for other people to push to master they'd have some sort of write access, somewhere on the server | 20:06 |
| fenn | yeah. you can set up ssh to only allow a particular command for a key | 20:06 |
| fenn | and there's probably some awful webdav thing for git | 20:06 |
| kanzure | oh sure now i can rest easy~ | 20:07 |
| fenn | so ssh would only allow them to do git push | 20:07 |
| kanzure | okay, cool | 20:07 |
| fenn | (for the record i'm not endorsing webdav) | 20:07 |
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| kanzure | fenn: thanks for the money transfer | 20:13 |
| bkero | Transfer some money to me? :3 | 20:13 |
| kanzure | it's for the hotel | 20:13 |
| kanzure | and it wasn't to me :( | 20:13 |
| bkero | Oh yea, how's the Irvine stuff progressing? | 20:14 |
| kanzure | fenn didn't like my presentation so he's redoing half of it or something | 20:15 |
| genehacker | presentation on skdb correct? | 20:16 |
| kanzure | yes | 20:16 |
| fenn | what presentation? | 20:16 |
| kanzure | the .odp file? remember? | 20:17 |
| fenn | i dont have openoffice | 20:17 |
| fenn | "updates from austin"? | 20:17 |
| kanzure | that's why i made a .pdf | 20:17 |
| kanzure | no | 20:17 |
| kanzure | i think an old copy is here: http://adl.serveftp.org/~bryan/presentations/draft.pdf | 20:17 |
| kanzure | (from october) | 20:17 |
| fenn | that is just a bunch of pictures of linux geeks | 20:18 |
| kanzure | yeah i'm not going to do huge blocks of text | 20:19 |
| kanzure | that's not what presentations are for | 20:19 |
| fenn | i know, but.. there's no diagrams or anything | 20:19 |
| genehacker | excellent, you'll do well in engineering communications if you ever take it here | 20:19 |
| kanzure | fenn: what happened to the package graphs? | 20:20 |
| kanzure | and the debian graphs | 20:20 |
| fenn | and these linux people are only very tangentially related... linus torvalds? pictures f random development conferences? | 20:20 |
| fenn | hold on.. it takes my patient a long time to render these pages | 20:21 |
| kanzure | people don't know about development conferences | 20:21 |
| kanzure | these are not developers we're talking to | 20:21 |
| fenn | whatever.. development conferences are not important | 20:21 |
| kanzure | i'm trying to show that there's people | 20:21 |
| kanzure | you can't just say "tens of thousands of people" and wave your hands | 20:21 |
| kanzure | they don't believe you | 20:21 |
| kanzure | at least they haven't believed me before.. | 20:21 |
| fenn | it's not real until it's on fox news | 20:22 |
| ybit | not so, i spotted an alien ship just last week, was that on fox news? | 20:22 |
| fenn | it might have been | 20:23 |
| fenn | the chicago airport thing was all over the news | 20:23 |
| ybit | how much are the sugar rocket guys/gals spending? | 20:25 |
| fenn | who cares | 20:25 |
| fenn | how much do bottle rockets cost | 20:26 |
| fenn | do some fucking math | 20:26 |
| genehacker | chicago airport thing? | 20:26 |
| ybit | it isn't orbit, so i guess it doesn't matter | 20:26 |
| genehacker | oh | 20:26 |
| fenn | ybit: correct :) | 20:26 |
| fenn | ybit: it's amazing how many people don't understand that | 20:27 |
| kanzure | sugarshot.org is supposed to be orbit | 20:27 |
| fenn | NO | 20:27 |
| fenn | 100km does not mean 'orbital' | 20:27 |
| genehacker | sounds like they want to get to 100 km | 20:27 |
| kanzure | i thought they were doing more than 100km | 20:27 |
| genehacker | getting in orbit is all about seepd | 20:28 |
| genehacker | *speed | 20:28 |
| kanzure | anyway, the people on sugpro are doing way way less than 100km | 20:28 |
| fenn | team whatever bullshit x-prize thingy were going to fire a beryllium copper slug horizontally off of a solid rocket at 100km, using a light gas gun | 20:29 |
| fenn | but that's 1 cubic mm and probably wouldnt have worked anyway | 20:29 |
| genehacker | screw sugar rockets, it'd be better if we had people working on variable nozzle diameter rockts | 20:29 |
| genehacker | *rockets | 20:29 |
| fenn | it'd be better if we had people working on basic industrial infrastructure so we can make V2's | 20:30 |
| genehacker | a light gas gun? | 20:30 |
| genehacker | aren't thoes huge? | 20:30 |
| fenn | not necessarily | 20:30 |
| genehacker | do you know why variable nozzle diameter rockets are cool? | 20:31 |
| genehacker | it's because they're more efficient | 20:31 |
| fenn | because you read about them on new scientist? | 20:31 |
| genehacker | no | 20:31 |
| fenn | physorg? | 20:32 |
| genehacker | no | 20:32 |
| fenn | ummm.. spacedaily | 20:32 |
| genehacker | because I learned about supersonic flow in class the other day | 20:32 |
| genehacker | and finally understood why they're all the rage | 20:32 |
| fenn | guh.. it's very simple | 20:33 |
| genehacker | yeah pretty much | 20:33 |
| fenn | atmospheric density changes from 1atm to 0 as you approach space | 20:33 |
| fenn | the expansion ratio has to match or else you're causing extra drag | 20:33 |
| fenn | by creating a venturi vacuum | 20:34 |
| genehacker | err... isn't it not getting your money's worth of thrust? | 20:34 |
| fenn | well that too, you have to balance it between too high and too low | 20:35 |
| fenn | i believe aerospike engines dont have this problem | 20:35 |
| genehacker | yup | 20:35 |
| fenn | god these sugar shot people suck.. they are just emulating nasa bureaucracy to pretend they're getting something done | 20:37 |
| QuantumG | if they ever get them working | 20:37 |
| fenn | 20:37 | |
| fenn | Report on Project "Phase One" Findings | 20:37 |
| fenn | Environmental Impact Control Methods: Primary Site Rules and Constraints | 20:37 |
| kanzure | i get emails from richard nakka every week with "weekly report updates" | 20:37 |
| QuantumG | no engine is in commercial production. The best large-scale aerospikes are still only in testing phases. | 20:37 |
| fenn | aerospikes have been around since 1960's | 20:37 |
| QuantumG | in testing yes | 20:38 |
| fenn | it was in one of the original shuttle proposals | 20:38 |
| fenn | 'not in commercial production' is a stupid reason not to produce something | 20:38 |
| QuantumG | I'm just saying the TRL is low | 20:38 |
| genehacker | at least the nasa people get stuff done | 20:39 |
| fenn | genehacker: are you fucking joking?? | 20:39 |
| QuantumG | they get some stuff done.. they fail at a lot of other stuff | 20:39 |
| kanzure | hahah | 20:39 |
| QuantumG | their batting average is pretty terrible | 20:40 |
| kanzure | how did the open-mfg-project-dealy get funded, again? | 20:40 |
| QuantumG | and their costs are insanely out of proportion with what they get done | 20:40 |
| fenn | what project? | 20:40 |
| kanzure | the "open source" cnc | 20:40 |
| kanzure | machine | 20:40 |
| fenn | it was funded by the guy who owns mfg.com | 20:41 |
| fenn | as part of 'mfg.com labs' | 20:41 |
| fenn | i never saw any cad files :( | 20:41 |
| kanzure | me either | 20:41 |
| fenn | or evidence that it cut metal | 20:41 |
| fenn | it's hard to imagine that it didn't work, i mean everything looks great | 20:42 |
| genehacker | can it cut wax? | 20:42 |
| genehacker | and be made of cast polyurethane | 20:42 |
| fenn | yeah it cut the mfg.com logo into some wood | 20:42 |
| QuantumG | http://www.rocketlab.co.nz/atea-1.html | 20:42 |
| QuantumG | http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2009/11/kiwi-rocket-scares-sheep-reaches-space/ | 20:42 |
| genehacker | to what accuracy? | 20:42 |
| fenn | genehacker: why dont you just make the damn wax thing instead of pestering me about it | 20:42 |
| QuantumG | watch as these kiwis hoard their rocket design like Americans under ITAR. | 20:42 |
| genehacker | I will make it | 20:43 |
| QuantumG | the logic of "it cost us to figure this out so we're not gunna tell anyone" backed up with a little "someone else with similar funding to us might compete with us!" is plenty sad. | 20:43 |
| QuantumG | never mind that they went with the simplest possible rocket design and frankly it's not that hard for amateurs to reproduce their work. | 20:44 |
| QuantumG | .. which is something I'd like to do next year.. and publish full specifications | 20:44 |
| fenn | what is it, LOX/kerosene? | 20:44 |
| genehacker | too bad one can't launch rockets from the middle of the ocean where no one is around... | 20:45 |
| QuantumG | nitrous hybrid | 20:45 |
| QuantumG | I'll probably do lox/kero | 20:45 |
| QuantumG | after gox/methane | 20:45 |
| fenn | nitrous is aftermarket car parts | 20:45 |
| QuantumG | yeah, nitrous hybrids are nice and simple .. and a natural progression from making your own solid motors | 20:46 |
| genehacker | are aftermarket nitrous containers made of light weight composites? | 20:46 |
| QuantumG | ahh, well that's the thing, I probably wont do the flight weight pressure vessels | 20:47 |
| QuantumG | that's a later project | 20:47 |
| QuantumG | safety first when it comes to static testing motors | 20:48 |
| genehacker | do you know how to fiberglass | 20:48 |
| genehacker | it isn't that hard | 20:48 |
| QuantumG | no I don't. But if its of use I may learn it one day. | 20:49 |
| genehacker | it's good for making rocket bodies | 20:49 |
| QuantumG | have you seen this? http://quantumg.net/mockingbird.pdf | 20:50 |
| QuantumG | don't blink or you'll miss the innovations the whole design relies on | 20:50 |
| QuantumG | https://www.llnl.gov/etr/pdfs/07_94.2.pdf makes it more clear | 20:51 |
| QuantumG | LLNL made these reciprocating free piston pumps that are drastically smaller, lighter and more reliable than turbo pumps, but provide similar performance. | 20:51 |
| QuantumG | back in 1994. | 20:52 |
| genehacker | hmm... capable of imitating ballistic missile threats... | 20:52 |
| QuantumG | http://www.xcor.com/products/pumps/index.html tada | 20:52 |
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| QuantumG | so, if you have good pumps then you no longer need high pressure tanks | 20:54 |
| QuantumG | which means you can make your tank walls really thin and therefore make the vehicle really light | 20:54 |
| QuantumG | only problem is that now your tank walls don't make very good supersonic vehicle structures. | 20:55 |
| QuantumG | ... but in 1994 LLNL was just starting to make massive strides in a revolutionary new insulator. | 20:56 |
| genehacker | interesting | 20:56 |
| QuantumG | aerogel to the rescue. | 20:56 |
| QuantumG | So you've got a design here for a vehicle that was cutting edge in 1994.. and now you can buy the two key innovations off the shelf. | 20:56 |
| genehacker | the pump? | 20:57 |
| QuantumG | and the aerogel | 20:57 |
| genehacker | aerogel is still pretty damn expensive | 20:57 |
| QuantumG | sure, but it's not LLNL expensive | 20:57 |
| genehacker | yeah | 20:57 |
| genehacker | it's possible to make it at home if you have an autoclave... | 20:58 |
| QuantumG | you probably could make 20 psi carbon fibre tanks now that are lighter than aluminium | 20:58 |
| genehacker | 20 psi is this a supersoaker? | 20:58 |
| QuantumG | ya.. it's only 20 psi to make the tanks still enough to hold the vehicle together at supersonic speeds. | 20:59 |
| QuantumG | s/still/stiff/ | 20:59 |
| genehacker | at 20 psi you have to worry about making the tank strong enough to stand up | 21:00 |
| genehacker | aluminum cans hold 90 psi | 21:00 |
| genehacker | using carbon fiber would be outrageous | 21:00 |
| QuantumG | yup.. the other thing is this design is for military field use | 21:00 |
| genehacker | heck you could use a giant plastic soda can if you wanted too | 21:00 |
| QuantumG | so they care unnecessarily about storable propellants | 21:01 |
| genehacker | link to the 20 psi thing? | 21:01 |
| QuantumG | same pdf | 21:01 |
| QuantumG | http://quantumg.net/mockingbird.pdf | 21:01 |
| genehacker | what's being stored at 20 psi? | 21:01 |
| QuantumG | h2o2 and JP-1 | 21:01 |
| genehacker | JP-1 is? | 21:02 |
| QuantumG | jet fuel | 21:02 |
| genehacker | 70% H2O2 is nasty stuff | 21:03 |
| QuantumG | ya, and they're talking 95% | 21:03 |
| QuantumG | if you don't mind cryo, you'd use LOX and get even better performance. | 21:03 |
| genehacker | that's very nasty stuff | 21:03 |
| QuantumG | being that the off-the-shelf pump is LOX rated, and cryo valves have improved drastically in the last 15 years, I'd go with LOX | 21:04 |
| genehacker | that mocking bird thing shows 2000 psi not 20? | 21:04 |
| genehacker | lox requires high pressure storage vessels | 21:05 |
| QuantumG | 2000 psi at the engine... that's what pumps do, take fuel/oxidizer from low pressure to high pressure. | 21:05 |
| QuantumG | lox can be stored in an atmospheric pressure dewar.. and typically is. | 21:06 |
| genehacker | then your tank has to be made out of something special | 21:07 |
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| genehacker | now the question is how small can you make the pump and have the thing still work? | 21:08 |
| genehacker | IE scale it down to hobbyist sizes | 21:08 |
| QuantumG | hmm? lox dewars are typically stainless steel.. but you can put it in an aluminum tank at atmospheric pressure. | 21:08 |
| QuantumG | read the second pdf | 21:08 |
| QuantumG | there's a picture | 21:08 |
| QuantumG | this is probably the simplest pump out there though: http://www.flometrics.com/rockets/rocket_pump/rocketpump.htm | 21:10 |
| genehacker | there's a reason you use stainless steel with cyrogenic stuff | 21:10 |
| genehacker | stainless steel doesn't contract much at cyrogenic temperatures | 21:11 |
| QuantumG | not as good performance but comparable.. | 21:12 |
| genehacker | making 98% H2O2 isn't that hard | 21:13 |
| genehacker | wait they wanted to use these things like drones? | 21:15 |
| QuantumG | it was one of the suggestions.. but really LLNL just wanted to do something with their pump | 21:15 |
| kanzure | ricardo vidal "Oh my, 100k € for a simple drupal site w/ no design? Talk about jobs for the boys... I should get back into web/logo designing!" | 21:16 |
| genehacker | all this just to show off a pump? | 21:16 |
| QuantumG | you develop a rocket pump, you wanna be able to make it into a rocket or two, yeah | 21:16 |
| QuantumG | imagine if they had made these <$1M single stage to orbit vehicles back in '94-'96. | 21:17 |
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| genehacker | did they say they could put it in orbit? | 21:17 |
| QuantumG | read the pdf for fuck sake | 21:17 |
| genehacker | sorry | 21:18 |
| genehacker | I'm just shocked that this hasn't happened already | 21:18 |
| ybit | QuantumG: could you tell me a fourth time, i didn't read it correctly the first three ;) | 21:18 |
| genehacker | hahaha | 21:18 |
| QuantumG | haha. That's government research for ya | 21:18 |
| genehacker | they're talking about using it to deliver documents and ultra-high priority items | 21:19 |
| QuantumG | "Do you understand what we've done here?!?!" "no, not really." "Well, with sufficient funding we could show you!!" "funding request denied." | 21:19 |
| QuantumG | "billions to show how fusion can't be made to work? sure." | 21:20 |
| genehacker | slosh baffles? | 21:20 |
| genehacker | heh at 20 psi I'd say dike out the slosh baffles and put the fuel in some sort of elastic bladder use the thing like a giant super soaker | 21:21 |
| genehacker | after all supersoakers provide constant pressure output | 21:22 |
| QuantumG | and these days you probably could come up with an elastic bladder that is cheaper than slosh baffles, maybe | 21:22 |
| QuantumG | cheaper == less mass | 21:23 |
| genehacker | you probably wouldn't need any control valves either | 21:23 |
| genehacker | err... pressure regulators | 21:23 |
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| QuantumG | in a way, you can see why LLNL was denied funding for this project | 21:27 |
| QuantumG | to a rocket engineer, it's madness | 21:27 |
| genehacker | why? | 21:27 |
| genehacker | it's too good to be true? | 21:27 |
| genehacker | dammit pretty much everything to make this rocket is on the market | 21:28 |
| QuantumG | "you can't use tanks that thin for structure, they'll melt." | 21:28 |
| genehacker | ??? | 21:28 |
| QuantumG | "pumps are not reliable enough for what you're claiming." | 21:28 |
| QuantumG | the response of uhhh.. that's the freakin' point.. it flies in the face of conventional wisdom.. would be about as effective as screaming at a brick wall. | 21:29 |
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| QuantumG | just too many innovations for a government program. | 21:31 |
| kanzure | hello technologiclee | 21:32 |
| genehacker | now how to make that special rocket nozzle... | 21:32 |
| genehacker | and pump | 21:32 |
| kanzure | http://www.uic.edu/htbin/cgiwrap/bin/ojs/index.php/fm/article/viewArticle/2670/2366 Open source enters the world of atoms: a statistical analysis of open design. | 21:32 |
| kanzure | http://open-innovation-projects.org/ | 21:33 |
| kanzure | how does an academic group have a better template? | 21:33 |
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| QuantumG | there was nothing special about the nozzle | 21:33 |
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| kanzure | hello technologiclee | 21:35 |
| genehacker | hmmm... now there are special carbon nanotube H2O2 catalysts that'd work great for the gas generator | 21:36 |
| QuantumG | url? | 21:37 |
| genehacker | I learnt it from a talk | 21:37 |
| QuantumG | hmm interesting | 21:37 |
| genehacker | carbon nanotubes grown in arrays on something decompose H2O2 more efficiently than other catalyst | 21:37 |
| genehacker | no word on catalyst life though | 21:37 |
| technologiclee | http://www.google.com/search?q=carbon+nanotube+H2O2+catalysts | 21:38 |
| QuantumG | http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6TWD-4RY8SS5-1&_user=10&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_searchStrId=1116390340&_rerunOrigin=google&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=a8f0be5dedf90aaf234b6ad40a7a034d | 21:38 |
| kanzure | http://letsevo.com/ | 21:38 |
| technologiclee | http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=carbon nanotube H2O2 catalysts | 21:38 |
| technologiclee | http://www.google.com/search?q=carbon+nanotubes+grown+in+arrays+on+something+decompose+H2O2+more+efficiently+than+other+catalyst | 21:43 |
| genehacker | http://www.cm.utexas.edu/keith_stevenson | 21:43 |
| genehacker | I think it was one of these | 21:44 |
| genehacker | thing is that carbon nanotubes have so much surface area | 21:49 |
| genehacker | saw a talk by that guy | 21:50 |
| genehacker | but he said something about using carbon nanotubes as a H2O2 catalyst | 21:54 |
| genehacker | damn I'll have to find my notes | 21:57 |
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| genehacker | found it | 21:59 |
| genehacker | http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6TG0-4RBYD3P-1&_user=108429&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_searchStrId=1116411407&_rerunOrigin=google&_acct=C000059713&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=108429&md5=3c435abc57ce33baf5ab80cf2eef2f84 | 21:59 |
| genehacker | Nevertheless, HRP/N-CNT composites are more sensitive | 22:00 |
| genehacker | to the addition of H2O2 than HRP/CNT, though we believe | 22:00 |
| genehacker | this result is partially due to the previously demonstrated ability | 22:00 |
| genehacker | of our N-CNTs to catalytically decompose H2O2. | 22:00 |
| QuantumG | any ref? | 22:00 |
| genehacker | nitrogenated carbon nanotubes break down H2O2 | 22:00 |
| genehacker | I don't know how well, but supposedly it's better | 22:01 |
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| genehacker | he said the horseradish peroxidase turned out to be unnecessary | 22:02 |
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| genehacker | QuantumG got any links to papers on that pump? | 22:29 |
| QuantumG | https://www.llnl.gov/etr/pdfs/07_94.2.pdf is about it I think. | 22:30 |
| QuantumG | http://www.xcor.com/products/pumps/index.html says they got a technology transfer.. which means it was secret. | 22:31 |
| genehacker | damn | 22:32 |
| QuantumG | but I expect all the secrecy is in the words "sliding seals" | 22:32 |
| genehacker | so nothing descrbing it | 22:32 |
| genehacker | I think I got an idea of how to do that | 22:32 |
| QuantumG | yeah, I don't think it is all that complicated.. if you look at the picture of the pump in the mockingbird.pdf you'll see how it works.. schematically.. how you make good sliding seals might even be well known now | 22:33 |
| QuantumG | s/picture/diagram/ | 22:33 |
| genehacker | not sure how to do it at high pressure though | 22:34 |
| genehacker | some sort of flexible diaphragm | 22:36 |
| genehacker | nah looks like your typical piston pump | 22:37 |
| genehacker | unless they did something weird | 22:38 |
| genehacker | like a rolamite piston | 22:43 |
| QuantumG | its LLNL, you know they did | 22:47 |
| genehacker | that'd change the whole design they showed | 22:49 |
| genehacker | I got a weird idea for a sliding seal, but I'm not sure how one could make it... | 22:50 |
| genehacker | it'd have to be made of some sort of elastomer | 22:50 |
| genehacker | and they didn't use elastomers | 22:54 |
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| QuantumG | http://midnight.caltech.edu/steve/publications/5.pdf is the CNF h2o2 decomposition paper btw | 22:56 |
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| kanzure | fenn: i didn't tell him your phone number because i figure you hate the phone anyway | 23:16 |
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