| --- Day changed Sun Dec 27 2009 | ||
| Aliks | back from coffee | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| Aliks | man, why have I been hangin out on Undernet all these years? | 00:01 |
| Aliks | so what is everybody here working on? | 00:03 |
| Aliks | I know sort of what kanzure is workin on | 00:03 |
| Aliks | but what about the others | 00:03 |
| bkero | I'm working on awesomeness | 00:05 |
| Aliks | lol | 00:05 |
| Aliks | well you're in the right place at least | 00:05 |
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| Aliks | yawn | 01:51 |
| katsmeow-afk | what an awesome yawn! | 01:56 |
| Aliks | lol | 02:06 |
| Aliks | whats up kats? | 02:06 |
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| Aliks | bah booted | 02:07 |
| katsmeow-afk | sleepy | 02:09 |
| katsmeow-afk | was seeing what had recently crashed | 02:09 |
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| katsmeow-afk | doing a registry search for LanmanServer\Parameters | 02:12 |
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| katsmeow-afk | ERROR : Delayed Write Failed : Windows was unable to save all the data for the file [ Delayed Write Failed Windows was unable to save all the data for the file | 02:25 |
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| Aliks | hmmm... what to do next... | 03:14 |
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| kanzure | fenn: are you still in seattle? you should meet up with wulfdesign (larry james) http://wulfdesign.blogspot.com/ http://www.thingiverse.com/wulfdesign | 06:32 |
| kanzure | oh wait, you were leaving today | 06:33 |
| technologiclee3 | what was the 'new studio' in Austin martyn mentioned? | 06:53 |
| kanzure | les' place | 06:56 |
| technologiclee3 | ok | 07:09 |
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| -!- Irssi: #hplusroadmap: Total of 36 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 36 normal] | 10:53 | |
| kanzure | Pro-Aging Effects of Glucose Signaling through a G Protein-Coupled Glucose Receptor in Fission Yeast http://designfiles.org/papers/Pro-Aging%20Effects%20of%20Glucose%20Signaling%20through%20a%20G%20Protein-Coupled%20Glucose%20Receptor%20in%20Fission%20Yeast.pdf | 12:06 |
| kanzure | Targeting breast stem cells with the cancer preventive compounds curcumin and piperine http://designfiles.org/papers/Targeting%20breast%20stem%20cells%20with%20the%20cancer%20preventive%20compounds%20curcumin%20and%20piperine.pdf | 12:06 |
| kanzure | from transplexity | 12:07 |
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| kanzure | hello biohackernoob | 12:42 |
| biohackernoob | hey | 12:42 |
| * kanzure goes to get breakfast | 12:42 | |
| kanzure | uh, lunch | 12:42 |
| biohackernoob | i was reading this: http://www.its.caltech.edu/~bjorker/Ca-P_Transfection_MDCK.pdf its about transfecting DNA directly into a eukaryotic cell. it got me thinking: what's stopping someone from just injecting the plasmid into the cell instead of forcing it to take the plasmid up naturally? | 12:45 |
| kanzure | look up "gene gun" | 13:11 |
| biohackernoob | ya ive read about that | 13:12 |
| biohackernoob | but why not use a needle? | 13:12 |
| kanzure | too big | 13:18 |
| kanzure | some people use AFM probe tips | 13:18 |
| kanzure | biohackernoob: check this out: http://designfiles.org/papers/Single%20cell%20transfection%20using%20plasmid%20decorated%20AFM%20probes%20-%2030%20percent%20efficiency.pdf | 13:18 |
| biohackernoob | k | 13:20 |
| kanzure | is that what you were thinking of? | 13:22 |
| kanzure | also don't know if this works with somatic cell nuclear transfer | 13:23 |
| kanzure | (which doesn't require AFM probe tips) | 13:24 |
| biohackernoob | ya this sorta sounds like what im thinking of | 13:26 |
| biohackernoob | so AFM probes are basically really small needles? | 13:27 |
| kanzure | AFM is "atomic force microscopy" | 13:27 |
| kanzure | usually these probe tips are made by dipping something like tungsten in an acid, and drawing it up | 13:27 |
| kanzure | as it pulls up, the acid etches away the wire | 13:27 |
| kanzure | so when you finally remove it, the tip is at a very fine point | 13:27 |
| kanzure | in particular AFM is used for atom-resolution microscopy most of the time | 13:27 |
| kanzure | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_force_microscope | 13:28 |
| biohackernoob | ok, well, thinking rediculously: what if u used a bee's stinger instead of a needle to transfer the plasmid? XD bee stingers are much more of a fine point compared to needles | 13:28 |
| kanzure | heh they added a photo to the article: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f6/Atomic_force_microscope_by_Zureks.jpg | 13:29 |
| kanzure | actually that technique i described is probably more frequently used for STM | 13:30 |
| kanzure | AFM peeps like to talk about "cantilevers" (which i think are made by MEMS processes sometimes? dunno) | 13:30 |
| kanzure | anyway, the way it works is that the AFM "taps" the atoms and because of this there is a deflection in the cantilever beam | 13:31 |
| kanzure | there's a mirror on the cantilever beam | 13:31 |
| kanzure | light is used to measure the angle of the cantilever beam | 13:31 |
| kanzure | which determines the relative "height" of the surface at whatever location the AFM is at | 13:31 |
| kanzure | biohackernoob: AFM probe tips are much sharper than a bee's stinger | 13:33 |
| kanzure | if you move it too fast, carbon atoms will rip it to shreds | 13:33 |
| biohackernoob | you really need something THAT small? plant cells are relatively large.... | 13:34 |
| kanzure | ion beam etching is a popular technique for AFM probe tips (had to look it up) | 13:37 |
| kanzure | like i said, with somatic cell nuclear transfer, people use much larger needles | 13:39 |
| kanzure | so i was looking for a few moments there for papers on that | 13:39 |
| biohackernoob | hm.. a wasp stinger is about 30 microns wide... and a plant cell is between 10 and 100... so close :P | 13:39 |
| kanzure | in 2001 paper by cibelli they used a 5mm inner diameter needle for SCNT of human cells | 13:40 |
| biohackernoob | did that kill the cell? | 13:41 |
| kanzure | does anyone have access to "Somatic cell cloning without micromanipulators. | 13:41 |
| kanzure | biohackernoob: no, SCNT is a method for transferring the nuclear contents from one cell to another | 13:42 |
| biohackernoob | well thanks for the info | 13:43 |
| biohackernoob | ill read a bit more and come back, i gtg atm | 13:44 |
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| ybit | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5KVMUPJJG5M | 13:50 |
| ybit | mythbusters: nasa moon landing hoax | 13:50 |
| technologiclee3 | 5 micrometers? or milimeters? | 14:14 |
| kanzure | the cibelli paper? it was 5 millimeters | 14:15 |
| kanzure | wonderful. http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=iceweasel-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aunofficial&num=100&q=i965_dri.so+segfault+30+ip&aq=f&oq=&aqi= | 14:22 |
| kanzure | looks like i'm the first result | 14:22 |
| technologiclee3 | i am waiting for my echo - when i mentioned labview on Open Manu - it is interesting to see how long it takes | 14:23 |
| kanzure | what? | 14:23 |
| kanzure | didn't you mention it a few days ago? | 14:23 |
| kanzure | oh wait, that was in "the free culture game" | 14:24 |
| kanzure | technologiclee3: btw, oscomak is basically skdb, except paul fernhout never did anything with it | 14:24 |
| technologiclee3 | i took it that you were being sarcastic and having a problem with a seg fault that you have not found an answer to - so find yourelf in a search | 14:24 |
| technologiclee3 | ya - i guess it was yesterday | 14:25 |
| kanzure | yes it was sarcasm | 14:25 |
| technologiclee3 | the garden simulator looked pretty detailed tho | 14:25 |
| kanzure | what do you mean "tho"? | 14:26 |
| technologiclee3 | though - although - in this context - i did not read thru the OSCOMAK stuff but felt that i got the just of it from the front page and his posts - even tho he did not develop it - he does have the garden simulaor and it seems detailed - maybe SKDB could benifit from it - i saw a robot tending a garden -but i do not think the robot 'knew' what it was doing | 14:30 |
| technologiclee3 | *jist | 14:30 |
| technologiclee3 | a google alert for LabView just came in - the Open Manu post is not on this one either - it's interesting to watch for the 'echo' | 14:32 |
| technologiclee3 | i wonder if i did a search for it - if it would trip the alert??? | 14:33 |
| technologiclee3 | wow i did not find it in a search | 14:34 |
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| technologiclee3 | also google translate has been working or hung on this site for several minutes - not that it need looking at http://www.astro-portail-star.fr/ | 14:41 |
| technologiclee3 | if the servers are like neurons ... i like to push the web to make connections - activate services - put things together that should work but seem to have never been done before - i think the web learns - if nothing else i hope an error message is seen by some admin that can make it work | 14:44 |
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| kanzure | hello eleitl | 15:41 |
| kanzure | ybit: under the "Device" section in /etc/X11/xorg.conf on your acer, set Option "GLX" "False" and Option "DRI" "False". this should get skdb/pythonOCC working | 15:43 |
| eleitl | all is quiet on the eastern front | 15:45 |
| ybit | kanzure: ah, so you fixed your problem as well then | 16:02 |
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| * ybit edits his xorg.conf | 16:02 | |
| ybit | i find it funny that a relevant keyword for openmanufacturing.org is 'lazy' | 16:03 |
| kanzure | hey Aliks | 16:04 |
| kanzure | we're fixing our xorg.conf files on our acer laptops to get skdb running :p | 16:04 |
| ybit | http://adl.serveftp.org/misc/Keywords_openmanufacturing_org_20091227T220154Z.csv | 16:05 |
| Martyn | Heh.. Acer ZA3 and the horrible Poulsbo chipset | 16:06 |
| kanzure | ybit: if that doesn't work, go back into your xorg.conf and comment out the "Load" lines for dri, glx, and dri2 under Section "Module" | 16:06 |
| kanzure | ybit: (in addition to the previous changes) | 16:06 |
| ybit | http://adl.serveftp.org/misc/PagesWithLinks_otherdomains_openmanufacturing_org_20091227T220601Z.csv | 16:06 |
| ybit | noted | 16:07 |
| eleitl | hey kanzure, do check the spacetraveler thing out hands-on. | 16:09 |
| kanzure | which spacetraveler thing | 16:09 |
| kanzure | oh the device | 16:09 |
| kanzure | yes | 16:09 |
| eleitl | space navigator, space traveler was the precursor device. | 16:09 |
| kanzure | looks like it's $90~ used | 16:10 |
| eleitl | it should be $60 new, or so. | 16:10 |
| kanzure | ah ebay has one going in 3h for $30 USD | 16:10 |
| eleitl | you need the personal edition one. 54 USD new. | 16:11 |
| eleitl | http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=spacenavigator+buy&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&cid=9491064525894121133&ei=cds3S6mzD4OK_AajjrXxBA&sa=X&oi=product_catalog_result&ct=result&resnum=5&ved=0CCEQ8wIwBA#ps-sellers | 16:11 |
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| kanzure | these links are growing nastier and nastier | 16:12 |
| Utopiah | (one can either use Vimperator autocmd or his IRC client to "clean" them before sending them) | 16:12 |
| kanzure | eleitl: check the private messages i sent you? | 16:14 |
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| technologiclee3 | hey i need SKDB on an acer | 16:20 |
| kanzure | is your acer working again? | 16:21 |
| technologiclee3 | do up the desptop while i'm at it | 16:21 |
| technologiclee3 | at the moment - good for practice if nothing else | 16:21 |
| kanzure | just remember to read skdb/doc/installing - that's step-by-step how to get things working | 16:22 |
| technologiclee3 | ok - i'll see what i can do | 16:22 |
| kanzure | at least on debian and the latest ubuntu | 16:22 |
| kanzure | ok just tell us whenever you get stuck | 16:22 |
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| technologiclee3 | haha my search found 'Serial Killer Data base' see that one yet? | 16:23 |
| kanzure | yeah i've seen it :/ | 16:23 |
| technologiclee3 | we gotta get the real thing listed above that - how many hits can they have? | 16:24 |
| technologiclee3 | you could add serial connection and killer app to the keyword list - not even untrue - quite | 16:25 |
| technologiclee3 | so with SKDB install - i get your twitter | 16:26 |
| kanzure | what? | 16:26 |
| kanzure | you get my twitter? | 16:27 |
| kanzure | oh "skdb install" as the query, you get "twitter" as a result | 16:27 |
| kanzure | http://designfiles.org/dokuwiki/skdb is what you're looking for | 16:27 |
| kanzure | it's in the /topic | 16:27 |
| ybit | i dunno about the spacenavigator | 16:27 |
| ybit | seems like a lot of trouble compared to what you can do with a mouse | 16:28 |
| technologiclee3 | thx - yes - it was not on that twitter page tho - page probly had to use the 'see more tweets' or whatever - the point is that eventually it should be super easy to find - maybe you could take advantage of the twitter thing to get links you want 'uprated' | 16:30 |
| kanzure | technologiclee3: nanoengineer1/cad/src/dna/model/DnaChain.py and nanoengineer1/cad/src/cnt/model/NanotubeSegment.py -- these files are really messy | 16:30 |
| technologiclee3 | hey i should tweet my head off about my intersts - I don't think anyone is searching for them tho - | 16:30 |
| kanzure | all of this code is pretty terrible | 16:31 |
| kanzure | looks like one person worked on it, then another, and another | 16:31 |
| technologiclee3 | i have not been able to run it since formating the HD - just got netbeans 6.8 - lets see... and the whole thing has been said to be messy - i say we strip out the pertinent equations and move on with it | 16:31 |
| kanzure | i.e. no maintainer over its lifetime | 16:31 |
| kanzure | i'm still looking around in it | 16:32 |
| kanzure | hm. cad/src/protein/model/Peptide.py seems to be about peptides in CNTs, not about proteins? | 16:32 |
| ybit | speaking of diy longevity projects, i talked to aubrey about this at the h+ summit, | 16:34 |
| ybit | i asked him why he was against diy efforts | 16:34 |
| ybit | he said that he has since changed his mind | 16:34 |
| kanzure | how kind of him. | 16:35 |
| ybit | especially since the sens undergrad initiative started | 16:35 |
| ybit | hrm, not sure why i said that, guess i'll shup up now | 16:36 |
| technologiclee3 | is there an .sh file for the install - to lazy to cut and pate? - if i don't have to... | 16:40 |
| kanzure | you can chmod a+x installing and then do ./installing | 16:41 |
| kanzure | but i think it will break somewhere and you won't know where the problem is | 16:41 |
| kanzure | anyway try it | 16:41 |
| kanzure | and we can always trace any errors i guess | 16:41 |
| technologiclee3 | chmod a+x what? ./installing what? like each step? i'll just do it like last time | 16:46 |
| kanzure | cd skdb/doc/ | 16:47 |
| kanzure | chmod a+x installing | 16:47 |
| kanzure | ./installing | 16:47 |
| technologiclee3 | and if your goind to take the time to answer noob questions - it might be a good idea to either do the documantation at that time - or save the conversation to do so - or post as faq | 16:47 |
| kanzure | yeah i should be writing tutorials right now | 16:48 |
| kanzure | instead i'm reading through nanoengineer1 (looking at their _mendeleev dictionary) | 16:48 |
| technologiclee3 | just cut and past my stupid questions - i started one somewhere... | 16:48 |
| technologiclee3 | sweeet - you just do that - i'lll keep myself occupied | 16:49 |
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| kanzure | technologiclee3: openbabel might be a better cheminformatics tool to use http://openbabel.org/wiki/Using_OpenBabel_from_Python | 17:03 |
| kanzure | dunno. anyway, back to writing tutorials.. | 17:04 |
| technologiclee3 | ne-1 uses it in some way - i will look more into it | 17:04 |
| technologiclee3 | ok installing on both machines.... (SKDB) and i get this trying to run ne 1 in netbeans - and it IS there and anything that could be related...ImportError: No module named PyQt4 | 17:06 |
| ybit | technologiclee3: what version of python are you using? | 17:07 |
| ybit | python --version | 17:07 |
| kanzure | sudo apt-get install python-qt4 python-qt4-gl | 17:08 |
| kanzure | are you on debian or ubuntu? | 17:08 |
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| ybit | it will be python-2.x-qt4 iirc | 17:08 |
| ybit | ah, python-qt4 exists | 17:09 |
| ybit | that works | 17:09 |
| technologiclee3 | ohhhh - wait nebeans is using 2.6 ( now you have to set the path to python in it - but there is an auto detect) - but from terminal using 2.5 i get the same error and a seg fault when i just use python | 17:09 |
| * ybit goes back to unbricking the wireless router | 17:09 | |
| technologiclee3 | yes - i had them | 17:10 |
| technologiclee3 | ubuntu | 17:10 |
| technologiclee3 | oh - using my name - in IRC- makes the message popup in the status bar or Ubuntu now - very useful for getting ones attention in the circuis of windows - just so everyone knows | 17:14 |
| technologiclee3 | kanzure: E: Couldn't find package libigraph | 17:18 |
| technologiclee3 | i dont remeber that last time | 17:19 |
| technologiclee3 | it is in the package manager as libigraph0 | 17:23 |
| kanzure | igraph might be in ubuntu, but if not, you'll have to download it on your own (this should be in the "installing" file too, btw) | 17:23 |
| ybit | as long as you did echo "deb http://cneurocvs.rmki.kfki.hu /packages/binary/" | sudo tee -a /etc/apt/sources.list | 17:24 |
| ybit | echo "deb-src http://cneurocvs.rmki.kfki.hu /packages/source/" | sudo tee -a /etc/apt/sources.list | 17:24 |
| ybit | sudo apt-get update | 17:24 |
| ybit | igraph will be available | 17:24 |
| ybit | aside from traffic, google isn't picking up dokuwiki/skdb because it is linked via mailing lists | 17:26 |
| ybit | looking at the webmaster tools for openmanufacturing, it doesn't include those links | 17:26 |
| ybit | i would try tagging it via tumblr, bookmarking it with delicious, and linking it in wikis | 17:29 |
| technologiclee3 | what installing file ? - and i didn't do that last time but ok | 17:30 |
| ybit | the installing file is located in the doc/ dir of skdb | 17:30 |
| technologiclee3 | no igraph is not to be found in the manager | 17:30 |
| kanzure | did you listen to ybit? | 17:31 |
| technologiclee3 | yes - so dont worry about igraph because it is there - or wait til i get to the git part and then it is in there... - i think i ignored all errors and it just worked 'almost' last time - and yes google does not find the skdb install page so but some links out there | 17:34 |
| kanzure | what does it mean to order "bone out" wings? | 17:36 |
| ybit | technologiclee3: if you are having problems finding igraph, don't worry | 17:37 |
| ybit | it isn't necessary | 17:37 |
| kanzure | actually, it is :( | 17:37 |
| kanzure | fenn incorporated it into the assembly graph stuff | 17:38 |
| ybit | sure, but he can continue on without for the time being | 17:38 |
| kanzure | http://designfiles.org/~bryan/meetlog/analysis.20091227 | 17:52 |
| kanzure | lookie! data. | 17:52 |
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| technologiclee1 | when i did this sudo python setup.py install i got this but only on the laptop - i gonna just keep goin http://pastebin.com/f610ac547 | 18:09 |
| kanzure | sudo apt-get install build-essential | 18:12 |
| kanzure | "gcc" is used to compile stuff, it's in the "build-essential" package | 18:12 |
| kanzure | dulwich is only required if you want to run the skdb web server | 18:12 |
| technologiclee3 | E: Package python-psyco has no installation candidate | 18:13 |
| kanzure | on my debian box "apt-cache search python-psyco" shows that there is an installation candidate | 18:14 |
| ybit | same | 18:14 |
| kanzure | anyway, just delete python-psyco from that line that you ran | 18:14 |
| technologiclee3 | the laptop is karmic - but having problems - maybe not take that seriously - i'll reinstall - later | 18:14 |
| technologiclee3 | ya it froze - make later now if it will reboot - onwards | 18:15 |
| ybit | sigh, two more family events left | 18:16 |
| ybit | luckily one isn't so bad: outing to see 'avatar' which starts in about 2 hours | 18:16 |
| ybit | probably afk for the night | 18:17 |
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| technologiclee3 | in terminal and the package manager - only finds psyco documentation | 18:21 |
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| technologiclee3 | http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=800926 Psyco will not be supported for x86 64 processors. think i found my prob | 18:29 |
| kanzure | you don't need psyco | 18:31 |
| technologiclee3 | but i had it running.... on the laptop? - ya when my power supply was out - but it is 64 bit too... | 18:31 |
| technologiclee3 | oh ya - i ignored all errors - onwards | 18:31 |
| technologiclee3 | sudo python setup.py build -NO_GEOM NameError: name 'classic' is not defined | 18:37 |
| kanzure | ybit's fault :) | 18:37 |
| kanzure | if you open up the file "setup.py" you will need to fix line.. uh. let me check | 18:37 |
| kanzure | well anyway, if you find where "-classic" is in the file, please surround it in quotes to fix that error | 18:38 |
| technologiclee3 | sudo cp -p /usr/lib/opencas/lib* /usr/lib/ | 18:38 |
| technologiclee3 | cp: cannot stat `/usr/lib/opencas/lib*': No such file or directory | 18:38 |
| kanzure | did you run the commands at the top of the file to install opencascade? | 18:38 |
| kanzure | like sudo apt-get install libopencascade-visualization etc. | 18:38 |
| technologiclee3 | no -i'm just going down the list | 18:39 |
| kanzure | it should have been at the very top of the file | 18:39 |
| * kanzure checks | 18:39 | |
| kanzure | yeah it was in the same line as psyco | 18:40 |
| kanzure | that's why you should have deleted "python-psyco" from that line and run it again | 18:40 |
| kanzure | so that all the opencascade libraries are installed | 18:40 |
| technologiclee3 | ohhhh - i thought it would do what it could | 18:41 |
| technologiclee3 | is this a prob? sudo cp -p /usr/lib/opencas/lib* /usr/lib/ cp: not writing through dangling symlink `/usr/lib/libmscmd.so' | 18:52 |
| kanzure | could be. do this: sudo rum /usr/lib/libmscmd.so | 18:53 |
| kanzure | then repeat the last step that you took | 18:54 |
| technologiclee3 | oops i kept going | 18:54 |
| technologiclee3 | ~/code$ sudo rum /usr/lib/libmscmd.so | 18:56 |
| technologiclee3 | sudo: rum: command not found | 18:56 |
| kanzure | rm | 18:57 |
| kanzure | not rum. sorry | 18:57 |
| technologiclee3 | well how do i see if it runs first? | 18:59 |
| kanzure | have you already done the -NO_GEOM step? | 19:01 |
| kanzure | where you run python setup.py etc.? | 19:01 |
| technologiclee3 | yes i have dome it all now - including the rm then sudo, echo, source | 19:02 |
| technologiclee3 | wait - no? | 19:02 |
| technologiclee3 | oh ya | 19:03 |
| technologiclee3 | i think there should be 'how to run it' in the doc | 19:13 |
| kanzure | how to run what? | 19:15 |
| kanzure | to test if skdb is working, go to skdb/ and type: python paths.py | 19:16 |
| kanzure | this will test the visualization | 19:16 |
| technologiclee3 | ImportError: No module named OCC.gp - so i have to do the k8 thing | 19:20 |
| technologiclee3 | is this the right place? | 19:22 |
| technologiclee3 | ECA = ['-O0','-march=%s'%platform.machine()] | 19:22 |
| technologiclee3 | ECA = ['-O0','-march=%k8%platform.machine()] ? | 19:24 |
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| kanzure | hey splicer | 19:26 |
| kanzure | technologiclee3: instead of "%s" you should put "k8" and instead of "%platform.machine()" you should put nothing | 19:26 |
| splicer | hi kanzure.. watching the video in the topic | 19:28 |
| technologiclee3 | ECA = ['-O0','-march=k8'()] | 19:29 |
| technologiclee3 | oops the () | 19:29 |
| technologiclee3 | ECA = ['-O0','-march=k8'] | 19:30 |
| kanzure | right | 19:30 |
| technologiclee3 | ImportError: No module named OCC.gp | 19:31 |
| kanzure | yeah did you run python setup.py build -NO_GEOM ? | 19:31 |
| kanzure | and then python setup.py install ? | 19:31 |
| technologiclee3 | i could have messed it up | 19:31 |
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| technologiclee3 | ~/code/skdb$ sudo python setup.py build -NO_GEOM - python: can't open file 'setup.py': [Errno 2] No such file or directory | 19:35 |
| technologiclee3 | this is the part where i take what i have learned and start from the beginnig | 19:35 |
| kanzure | why | 19:38 |
| kanzure | so if you look at the "installing" file, it tells you to run "python setup.py build -NO_GEOM" in ~/local/pythonocc/pythonocc-0.3/ or something | 19:39 |
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| Aliks | so where is the hplus roadmap anyway? | 19:54 |
| kanzure | on a dead wiki | 19:58 |
| kanzure | it wasn't very good | 19:58 |
| * kanzure just uploaded http://designfiles.org/~bryan/meetlog/graphs/ (er, it's still going, but still. pretty cool i think) | 19:58 | |
| kanzure | ooh. http://designfiles.org/~bryan/meetlog/graphs/emil_gilliam.png | 19:59 |
| technologiclee3 | it does sy that - but to the novice with so many instructions in between - it was not clear to me | 20:00 |
| technologiclee3 | ~/local/pythonocc/pythonOCC-0.3$ sudo python setup.py build -NO_GEOM python: can't open file 'setup.py': [Errno 2] No such file or directory | 20:01 |
| kanzure | yeah i think it's in the src/ subdirectory in that folder? | 20:01 |
| technologiclee3 | right - wasnt thinking | 20:02 |
| technologiclee3 | NameError: name 'classic' is not defined you already told me what to do here... | 20:03 |
| technologiclee3 | "-classic" is in the file, surround it in quotes to fix that error | 20:04 |
| kanzure | huh | 20:05 |
| kanzure | does it give you a line number | 20:05 |
| technologiclee3 | i'm using gedit | 20:08 |
| technologiclee3 | i have pythonOCC-0.3/src/setup.py open - classic is not found | 20:09 |
| Aliks | interesting, kanzure | 20:09 |
| technologiclee3 | File "setup.py", line 28, in <module> import Modules File "/home/l/local/pythonocc/pythonOCC-0.3/src/wrapper/Modules.py", line 20, in <module> import environment File "/home/l/local/pythonocc/pythonOCC-0.3/src/wrapper/environment.py", line 144, in <module | 20:10 |
| Aliks | maybe I'm paranoid but when files on patents disappear from my computer I get nervous... | 20:10 |
| Aliks | and I'm missing one lol | 20:10 |
| technologiclee3 | dont worry they will still sue you if you violate it ; ) | 20:11 |
| Aliks | actually maybe this is a question I can ask you guys about | 20:11 |
| Aliks | I have a way, I think, of reducing software etc. piracy significantly | 20:11 |
| Aliks | but it isnt encryption or any junk like that | 20:12 |
| Aliks | I'm not even sure if it's a patentable type of thing, but I was thinking about trying | 20:12 |
| technologiclee3 | don't use proprietary software..... | 20:12 |
| Aliks | anyway, what do you think about releasing the idea for free? | 20:12 |
| Aliks | and if I do that, what's the best way to do it? | 20:12 |
| Aliks | I mean, announce it where? I was thinkin Slashdot but that doesnt seem big enough | 20:12 |
| technologiclee3 | make the DRM guys pay thu the nose and give all the $ to open source | 20:12 |
| Aliks | yeah | 20:13 |
| Aliks | despite their DRM views I suspect they'd be inclined just to steal the idea | 20:13 |
| Aliks | lol | 20:13 |
| technologiclee3 | there is classic in environment.py put single quotes areoun it ' ' ? | 20:15 |
| technologiclee3 | EXTRA_LIBS = [ -classic , -nomodernargs, 'm','stc++',lib_python] - can i define classic? what is classic? | 20:16 |
| technologiclee3 | stealing an idea to prevent the stealing of ideas that have been stolen - ironic? anti ironic? | 20:18 |
| technologiclee3 | ok why is classic not defined - it is in python occ - ill search - also i think the chat client could use and integrated search thing | 20:20 |
| technologiclee3 | i found a pastebin post by heath - where yall are working on this - echo echo.... | 20:22 |
| Aliks | yeah seriously technologiclee3, would be ironic... but those guys have no morals despite telling us we should not steal their stuff | 20:22 |
| Aliks | yay, found my patent app | 20:22 |
| Aliks | only took like 2 hours... grr | 20:22 |
| Aliks | thats what happens when I don't work on stuff for 6 months... lose all track of where I put things | 20:23 |
| technologiclee3 | its not about moral its about money and control | 20:23 |
| Aliks | right | 20:23 |
| Aliks | however, I do think there is an argument to be made for actually paying for stuff... I mean, need to support people who do creative work | 20:23 |
| technologiclee3 | if they can live and sing thats good enough the artist see little of the money anyway | 20:24 |
| Aliks | well thats what I'm saying | 20:24 |
| Aliks | it'd be good if the artist actually got the money | 20:24 |
| Aliks | or the author, or the software developer, etc. | 20:24 |
| Aliks | It encourages people to do even more creative stuff | 20:25 |
| technologiclee3 | the money destroys them anyway - better to sing in poverty than to die of overdose | 20:25 |
| Aliks | I don't think creativity flourishes as much in an environment where "knowledge/creative workers" need to work fast food to survive | 20:25 |
| Aliks | lol thats their decision to make, I would argue, technologiclee3 | 20:26 |
| technologiclee3 | this is a transition our economy is fake | 20:26 |
| Aliks | how so? | 20:26 |
| technologiclee3 | which part? | 20:26 |
| Aliks | well you're making the statement, how should I know what part? | 20:26 |
| Aliks | lol | 20:27 |
| technologiclee3 | nothing for the search EXTRA_LIBS = [ -classic , -nomodernargs, 'm','stc++',lib_python] | 20:27 |
| technologiclee3 | NameError: name 'classic' is not defined | 20:27 |
| technologiclee3 | this is the frontier | 20:27 |
| Aliks | ? | 20:28 |
| Aliks | hmm food time I guess | 20:29 |
| Aliks | pick this up later maybe | 20:29 |
| technologiclee3 | i've got an idea called RoboBurger(TM) that will put them out of work | 20:29 |
| kanzure | technologiclee3: in the EXTRA_LIBS line, "-classic" should be in quotes | 20:29 |
| technologiclee3 | EXTRA_LIBS = [ -'classic' , -nomodernargs, 'm','stc++',lib_python] | 20:29 |
| technologiclee3 | TypeError: bad operand type for unary -: 'str' | 20:31 |
| kanzure | put the "-" inside of it | 20:31 |
| technologiclee3 | NameError: name 'nomodernargs' is not defined | 20:32 |
| kanzure | same thing again, throw that into quotes | 20:34 |
| kanzure | including the '-' | 20:34 |
| technologiclee3 | EXTRA_LIBS = [ '-classic' , '-nomodernargs', 'm','stc++',lib_python] http://pastebin.com/f399e62b3 | 20:34 |
| technologiclee3 | pythonOCC-0.3/src/OCC -o /home/l/local/pythonocc/pythonOCC-0.3/src/wrapper/SWIG/linux_darwin/Standard_wrap.cpp /home/l/local/pythonocc/pythonOCC-0.3/src/wrapper/SWIG/linux_darwin/Standard.i | 20:37 |
| technologiclee3 | swig: Modules/lang.cxx:330: Language::Language(): Assertion `!this_' failed. | 20:37 |
| technologiclee3 | error: command 'swig' terminated by signal 6 | 20:37 |
| kanzure | hm | 20:44 |
| ybit | 18:37 < kanzure> ybit's fault :) | 20:45 |
| ybit | i confess | 20:45 |
| ybit | movie was sold out (yay) | 20:46 |
| kanzure | ybit: i think this is off. http://designfiles.org/~bryan/meetlog/graphs/heath_matlock.png | 20:46 |
| ybit | just a bit | 20:46 |
| ybit | it would be nice to see my stalking graph overlayed on that | 20:46 |
| kanzure | technologiclee3: here's you http://designfiles.org/~bryan/meetlog/graphs/lee_nelson.png | 20:47 |
| technologiclee3 | hey - my knowledge has incresaed today..... | 20:48 |
| technologiclee3 | and the phone an in person line should be on the same day | 20:48 |
| technologiclee3 | and what is meant by internet? what are the units? #hplusr, Open Manu posts? | 20:49 |
| technologiclee3 | anyway - interesting | 20:49 |
| ybit | internet == right now | 20:49 |
| ybit | i.e. talking on the net | 20:50 |
| kanzure | wtf | 20:50 |
| kanzure | bluetooth has a range of 60mi? http://the-gadgeteer.com/2007/09/03/aircable_host_xr_long_range_bluetooth_dongle/ | 20:51 |
| kanzure | technologiclee3: "internet" means times i've interacted with you on the internet, like by sending you a message, or you sending me one | 20:51 |
| kanzure | if you send the mailing list one, and i don't reply, it doesn't count | 20:51 |
| ybit | swig: Modules/lang.cxx:330: Language::Language(): Assertion `!this_' failed. | 20:52 |
| ybit | think that's a new one | 20:52 |
| technologiclee3 | i dont think that said 60 miles 1 km = .6 miles its working off 5 volts | 20:54 |
| technologiclee3 | yesss f'n up like never before and no one else | 20:55 |
| technologiclee3 | but why is this failing - it worked on a karmic 64 bit laptop this is a lucid 64 bit desktop | 20:56 |
| ybit | oh | 20:57 |
| technologiclee3 | there were no seaarch relusts for the last 2 lines including error code 6 | 20:57 |
| technologiclee3 | and 8 hits for Modules.......... | 20:58 |
| technologiclee3 | thats when i know i'm on the edge and there won't be much help available - echo echo | 20:58 |
| Aliks | back | 20:59 |
| technologiclee3 | haha 1 of those hits is already me | 20:59 |
| Aliks | now I understand what you guys were talking about... | 20:59 |
| Aliks | the RoboBurger clued me in | 20:59 |
| Aliks | post-scarcity society basically? | 20:59 |
| technologiclee3 | did you see that best robots of 2009 from wired i think? | 21:00 |
| Aliks | no | 21:00 |
| Aliks | but actually I'm really really surprised nobody has automated fast food yet | 21:00 |
| Aliks | I mean, I've had that idea since like 2000 | 21:00 |
| technologiclee3 | RoboChefs(TM) and a human server - which is silly - robots have been serving for years | 21:00 |
| Aliks | no big companies jumped on it yet? | 21:00 |
| ybit | http://singularityhub.com/2009/12/22/a-review-of-the-best-robots-of-2009/ | 21:00 |
| ybit | anyway, Aliks yes | 21:00 |
| ybit | post-scarcity/transhumanism/personal manufacturing | 21:00 |
| ybit | diysci | 21:01 |
| Aliks | yeah, I like the idea and I think a rough approximation of that will happen | 21:01 |
| Aliks | however, I suspect there will still be some form of scarcity over the next 100 years or so | 21:01 |
| technologiclee3 | ya the costs of robots is to the point where it makes sense to eliminate minimum wage staff - i though about it awhile back but the equip was still too expensive | 21:01 |
| Aliks | technologiclee3, yeah and the staff is the majority of the cost of the food | 21:02 |
| Aliks | without human staff the dollar menu is the 25c menu | 21:02 |
| ybit | technologiclee3: just confirmed by grepping the logs, this is a first of that kind of error, might be helpful to see how others tackled similar swig !this_ assertion errors | 21:03 |
| Aliks | I mean, surface space on planet Earth is limited, so that's scarcity we're not going to be free of for quite some time | 21:03 |
| Aliks | also there are finite amounts of various elements | 21:03 |
| Aliks | so until transmutation of elements becomes cheap, thats an issue | 21:03 |
| technologiclee3 | i prob messed it up doing things out of order if no one has seen it before - reinstall immanent | 21:04 |
| Aliks | a related problem is... what to do with the people who work min wage right now, not the ones who are stuck there due to lack of opportunity, but the ones that are too lazy to do anything that requires thinking? | 21:04 |
| ybit | spam them, take their money | 21:05 |
| Aliks | yeah but they dont HAVE money | 21:05 |
| Aliks | thats exactly the problem... they arent productive | 21:05 |
| Aliks | they arent even worth having around | 21:05 |
| Aliks | as the man just said, we can replace them with robots for cheaper | 21:05 |
| Aliks | their work is actually more expensive that a robot's work | 21:05 |
| Aliks | and they cant do anything a robot cant do | 21:05 |
| Aliks | *than/that | 21:05 |
| ybit | spam them, use their wasteful brain processing cycles to gain money through user registrations and surveys? :P | 21:05 |
| Aliks | lol only works until those companies business models fail | 21:06 |
| technologiclee3 | let them be lazy and dream | 21:06 |
| Aliks | seems like a loss of a lot of world resources if the 5 billion lazy unproductive ignorant people get to soak up 5/6 of the resources | 21:06 |
| Aliks | no? | 21:06 |
| ybit | create a religion that these 5 billion can't refuse | 21:07 |
| ybit | the singularity seems to be a popular one these days | 21:07 |
| Aliks | they arent interested | 21:07 |
| technologiclee3 | what good is tech if we cant chill? | 21:07 |
| Aliks | do you guys spend much time out of the university campus? | 21:07 |
| Aliks | most people are idiots | 21:07 |
| Aliks | they arent even aware of the word 'singularity' | 21:08 |
| Aliks | they're stuck somewhere in 1970 | 21:08 |
| ybit | heh, you're speaking the choir | 21:08 |
| Aliks | lol ok | 21:08 |
| Aliks | well thats what I'm asking about I guess | 21:08 |
| Aliks | is how do we deal with that... | 21:08 |
| Aliks | we just let those same people soak up 5/6 of the world's resources? | 21:08 |
| technologiclee3 | we need a blockbuster tranhumanism movir - I Robot came close | 21:08 |
| technologiclee3 | they are behind help the kids | 21:09 |
| ybit | this conversation is about to turn to education | extinction, i'm not sure which, either way, i'm not too interested. my take is that i will gladly point others to resources if they ask | 21:09 |
| technologiclee3 | like - animals ? plants - living is doing | 21:09 |
| ybit | but i'm not too interested in educating others unless they can help my cause and it doesn't waste too much time | 21:10 |
| Aliks | I agree, ybit | 21:10 |
| Aliks | ybit, what does your work focus on? | 21:10 |
| Aliks | or what are you planning to work on? | 21:10 |
| ybit | my cause == the cause | 21:10 |
| Aliks | ah | 21:10 |
| ybit | see above | 21:10 |
| Aliks | yes | 21:10 |
| Aliks | do you mind if I ask where you guys are from? | 21:10 |
| technologiclee3 | texas | 21:10 |
| ybit | florence, alabama, united states | 21:10 |
| Aliks | this is the largest concentration of people I've ever seen (in realtime) of people who have these kind of ideas | 21:10 |
| -!- kristianpaul [n=kristian@190.7.148.137] has quit ["leaving"] | 21:11 | |
| technologiclee3 | these are the only ones i have found | 21:11 |
| ybit | katsmeow-afk is temporarily located in alabama as well | 21:11 |
| Aliks | (personally seen that is, I'm aware there are gatherings) | 21:11 |
| technologiclee3 | not tru - but in real time yes | 21:11 |
| ybit | this is the largest concentration of alabamians with these ideas i've ever seen :) | 21:11 |
| technologiclee3 | pidgen is a bit of a hurdle... | 21:11 |
| ybit | (2) | 21:11 |
| ybit | technologiclee3: pidgin? | 21:12 |
| technologiclee3 | if you can not point and click you lose people | 21:12 |
| technologiclee3 | and that does not mean stupid - every trick takes learning | 21:12 |
| Aliks | I'm using MIRC if thats what you mean | 21:12 |
| Aliks | by the way, currently located in California | 21:13 |
| ybit | Aliks: what part? | 21:13 |
| Aliks | ybit, near Sacramento | 21:13 |
| Aliks | mid/northern | 21:13 |
| ybit | you aren't too far from s.f. then where there happens to be quite a lot of interesting people | 21:14 |
| Aliks | yes, about 90 min away | 21:14 |
| Aliks | hopefully will be in and around SF as of 6 months from now | 21:14 |
| ybit | e.g. http://foresight.org/ | 21:14 |
| Aliks | right | 21:14 |
| ybit | i would be there in a heartbeat if i didn't have land here | 21:15 |
| Aliks | sell it | 21:15 |
| ybit | nope | 21:15 |
| Aliks | or keep it and just pay taxes on it while you're away | 21:15 |
| ybit | i'm going to replicate some of factor-e-farm's work here | 21:16 |
| Aliks | nice | 21:16 |
| ybit | i.e. build my own lab to perform my own angry experiments | 21:16 |
| Aliks | lol | 21:16 |
| Aliks | so I take it you're going the robotics/automation route? | 21:17 |
| Aliks | as opposed to the nanomachines, biochemistry/longevity route? | 21:17 |
| ybit | heh, i'm all over | 21:17 |
| Aliks | ah ok | 21:17 |
| Aliks | probably common among this group | 21:17 |
| ybit | it's a full-time job stalking kanzure and fenn | 21:17 |
| technologiclee3 | here is one way to get the error Using -xmlout raises an error: | 21:18 |
| technologiclee3 | > swig -xml -c++ -cpperraswarn -xmlout | 21:18 |
| Aliks | currently in university, graduated? | 21:18 |
| ybit | my uni related interests: http://openwetware.org/wiki/User:Heath_Matlock | 21:18 |
| ybit | undergrad, took a break, going back this semester | 21:18 |
| ybit | just to take a course or two, i despise school, prefer p2p methods of learning | 21:18 |
| Aliks | very cool | 21:18 |
| Aliks | CS undergrad here, with a lot of bio/chem electives | 21:19 |
| Aliks | going to do a double major with bio possibly | 21:19 |
| technologiclee3 | this is a full time job - i put in overtime | 21:19 |
| ybit | that's the way to go | 21:19 |
| ybit | technologiclee3: indeed | 21:19 |
| ybit | kanzure is probably about to hax0r my computer soon enough if i don't have the .deb finished this week | 21:20 |
| Aliks | .deb? | 21:20 |
| technologiclee3 | BS Control Systems Engineering - Corpus Christi A&M | 21:20 |
| technologiclee3 | hey ya whats that need to make it it idiot proof? | 21:20 |
| ybit | Aliks: a .deb is an installation file for debian based linux systems | 21:21 |
| Aliks | ah | 21:21 |
| technologiclee3 | i mentioned the bitrock install builder - i want to package Ne1 - as well | 21:21 |
| ybit | nice to meet you Aliks | 21:22 |
| ybit | technologiclee3: i already knew who you were from previous stalking | 21:22 |
| Aliks | you too Heath | 21:22 |
| technologiclee3 | but i never said anything ; ) | 21:22 |
| * ybit is going to figure out the google chart api and get the sata drive working | 21:23 | |
| technologiclee3 | and no one ever saw anything i did before my first Open Manu post - and then no one proceeded to give a hoot - i'm invisible man | 21:23 |
| Aliks | eeeeeew | 21:26 |
| Aliks | I just saw a video about a Stanford robotic Audi | 21:26 |
| Aliks | and they showed some of the source code | 21:26 |
| Aliks | it's in JAVA!! nOO!!!!!! | 21:26 |
| technologiclee3 | i bet it would be easier for me to try and make a .rpm since i'm ubuntu... | 21:26 |
| kanzure | back | 21:29 |
| kanzure | got lost in my graphs | 21:29 |
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| technologiclee3 | oh amn this vid was tooo good lol for rilla http://www.anxietyfree4me.com/blog2/anxiety/installation-anxiety | 21:52 |
| kanzure | trey is suggesting 3 threaded rods (1 per axis) for the cnc cube project | 22:11 |
| technologiclee3 | for the drive or the frame? | 22:15 |
| kanzure | for moving the router/assembly-that-contains-the-drill-bit-and-dc-motor | 22:20 |
| technologiclee3 | sure - sounds reasonable - i'll take a look at some cnc designs | 22:21 |
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| kanzure | http://mechmate.com/ is what lee has going for him | 22:21 |
| technologiclee3 | this is a site that mentions a router bit for etching PCB boards http://buildyourcnc.com/default.aspx | 22:23 |
| technologiclee3 | you mean 'les and the ready to go x-y table? | 22:23 |
| kanzure | i'm tempted to just say the controller is going to be a beagleboard | 22:24 |
| kanzure | s/lee/les/ | 22:24 |
| kanzure | sorry | 22:24 |
| kanzure | the x-y table isn't quite ready to go. that mechmate setup has a few structural, ah, defects | 22:25 |
| kanzure | and for some reason nobody has bothered to fix them yet | 22:25 |
| technologiclee3 | all - good ' my brains at the limit at the moment | 22:25 |
| technologiclee3 | we are the body | 22:25 |
| kanzure | yes by nobody i really mean "me" | 22:26 |
| technologiclee3 | why buy a board - could an old computer work? | 22:27 |
| technologiclee3 | they drive printers... | 22:27 |
| kanzure | printers are queue-based | 22:27 |
| kanzure | cnc machines need to be real-time | 22:27 |
| kanzure | yes a computer can work | 22:27 |
| kanzure | i'll have to ask fenn when he gets back around what type of hookups emc needs | 22:28 |
| kanzure | ah | 22:29 |
| kanzure | http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/EMC2_Integrator_Manual.pdf | 22:29 |
| kanzure | haha they use the parallel port? | 22:31 |
| kanzure | do things even have those any more | 22:31 |
| technologiclee3 | i see usb port on p. 23 | 22:32 |
| technologiclee3 | and parallel | 22:32 |
| technologiclee3 | but one still needs motor controllers | 22:34 |
| technologiclee3 | what has those free?? | 22:35 |
| kanzure | hm, pulse width modulation | 22:38 |
| kanzure | doesn't need motor controllers | 22:38 |
| kanzure | you just need an hbridge and a parallel port, and your dc motor i think | 22:38 |
| technologiclee3 | ya looks like it but there is still the driver http://www.cncroutersource.com/cnc-control.html http://www.cncroutersource.com/cnc-controller-components.html | 22:44 |
| kanzure | http://www.woodweb.com/knowledge_base/Servo_vs_stepper_motors.html | 22:46 |
| kanzure | ah you're right | 22:46 |
| Martyn | Just came back from watching Avatar 3D/IMAX .. pretty damned cool film | 22:48 |
| Martyn | kanzure : EMC2 can use any number of interfaces | 22:48 |
| Martyn | kanzure : I have full plans for a gantry CNC machine here, if needed. | 22:49 |
| Martyn | ( including PCB's, parts BOM, etc.. ) | 22:49 |
| kanzure | i was thinking of building an open source CNC machine and mount it in a cubespawn | 22:49 |
| kanzure | if there's licensing issues i better not look at it | 22:49 |
| Martyn | This _is_ an open source machine | 22:49 |
| Martyn | you don't have to re-invent the wheel, after all :) | 22:49 |
| kanzure | please understand why i'm being so careful | 22:49 |
| Martyn | plenty of wheels already out there :) | 22:49 |
| kanzure | are there any CAD models? | 22:49 |
| kanzure | not meshes | 22:50 |
| Martyn | What, of the PCBs? | 22:50 |
| kanzure | no | 22:50 |
| kanzure | are the PCBs the stepper drivers, or something else? | 22:50 |
| Martyn | They encompass three functions | 22:50 |
| kanzure | i would only expect schematics in some usable format (not PDF or PNG) for electronics, not a .stl or .stp for sure :) | 22:51 |
| Martyn | Linear optical (or magnetic) quad encoders | 22:51 |
| Martyn | Stepper drivers | 22:51 |
| kanzure | sounds good so far | 22:51 |
| Martyn | (well, general motor drivers actually ) | 22:51 |
| Martyn | and logic | 22:51 |
| kanzure | what does "logic" mean | 22:51 |
| Martyn | In this case, it uses an ARM AT91 processor | 22:51 |
| Martyn | logic .. all the control logic is on the mainboard, making controlling the gantry very easy | 22:51 |
| Martyn | EMC2 already supports it | 22:52 |
| kanzure | so it has a gcode parser running on the at91 or something? | 22:52 |
| Martyn | No | 22:52 |
| kanzure | i don't understand its purpose then | 22:52 |
| Martyn | just an intermediary packet-based communication system | 22:52 |
| kanzure | okie dokie | 22:52 |
| kanzure | buffer dealy, i got it | 22:52 |
| Martyn | Yep, so that takes care of having to deal with realtime processing issues | 22:52 |
| kanzure | well | 22:52 |
| kanzure | i'd like to take a look if you could tarball it all up | 22:53 |
| Martyn | Yeek .. all 580 megs!? | 22:53 |
| kanzure | yeah | 22:53 |
| Martyn | I was thinking I'd just give it to you on a usb key on Sunday | 22:53 |
| kanzure | ok | 22:53 |
| kanzure | why is it not online? | 22:53 |
| kanzure | er, i mean, why is it not on the web? | 22:53 |
| Martyn | Mostly because the people making the machine at UC Berkeley are still developing it | 22:54 |
| Martyn | I help with the control logic | 22:54 |
| kanzure | are you sure berkeley doesn't own the license? | 22:54 |
| Martyn | The control code is BSD licenced | 22:54 |
| kanzure | the code is only one small part | 22:54 |
| Martyn | so in all actual fact they /do/ own the license, but it's under the terms of the BSD license | 22:55 |
| Martyn | they don't own EMC2, and the driver follows the EMC2 spec.. which means it's GPL | 22:55 |
| kanzure | what about the pcb schematics and gantry assembly | 22:55 |
| Martyn | the hardware is under the same kind of license as the freeduino .. CC I think | 22:55 |
| Martyn | gantry assembly is not under any license, as this design can work with -any- gantry | 22:55 |
| kanzure | why is the hardware under that license? i mean how did berkeley let that happen | 22:56 |
| Martyn | Because that's the license the PCB came under when it started. | 22:56 |
| Martyn | They adapted a design, and the Creative Commons license is just fine | 22:56 |
| kanzure | most universities demand that they own all (what they call) "IP" of projects designed, built or executed within their walls | 22:57 |
| kanzure | so that's why i'm suspicious | 22:57 |
| Martyn | It covers the schematic, and only one possible layout of the board ( 4 layer, 5cm x 8cm ) | 22:57 |
| kanzure | but again if it's real, more power to it | 22:57 |
| kanzure | cool | 22:57 |
| Martyn | kanzure : UC Berkeley has a LONG tradition of open software projects | 22:57 |
| kanzure | who was the person ebhind the OpenServo project? | 22:57 |
| Martyn | kanzure : In fact, they opened BSD even before Stallman and his ideas came along | 22:57 |
| kanzure | and why hasn't that gone anywhere | 22:57 |
| Martyn | Barry is in charge of it | 22:58 |
| Martyn | Barry Carter | 22:58 |
| Martyn | and people use OpenServo all the itme | 22:58 |
| kanzure | for some reason i remember it being stuck somewhere | 22:58 |
| kanzure | i checked it out a few years ago though, last | 22:58 |
| kanzure | so i'm probably behind a bit | 22:58 |
| Martyn | It's FAR from stuck | 22:58 |
| Martyn | hell, v3 came out in December of '08 | 22:58 |
| Martyn | and v4 is under active development | 22:59 |
| Martyn | You're behind the times :) | 22:59 |
| kanzure | dunno if i want a servo or a brushless dc motor. lots of decisions to make :) | 22:59 |
| * Martyn rolls his eyes. Bryan, you make so many /flat/ statements. | 22:59 | |
| kanzure | i think a motor is more typical | 22:59 |
| Martyn | What you want, is whatever works. You can make a very accurate linear actuator out of a motor and a linear encoder. That's kind of the point. | 23:00 |
| Martyn | The real 'magic' is in your controls logic. I am a big fan of PID, and have implemented kalmann filters more times than I like to admit. | 23:00 |
| Martyn | I've got a fairly good bit of code that implements a servo on the ATmega tiny24 :) | 23:01 |
| Martyn | Right now, I'm even working on modifying the firmware of a MakerBot, so that I can install three rotary quadrature encoders and use the spare I/O channels on the boards to make a -very- accurate makerbot | 23:02 |
| Martyn | instead of the current technique used. | 23:02 |
| Martyn | (which drifts, and has lots of slop due to the fact that it uses standard screw posts, no antibacklash nuts, not to mention the printed pulleys and gods-awful motors) | 23:04 |
| kanzure | Martyn: did you see this yet? http://designfiles.org/~bryan/meetlog/graphs/martin_bogomolni.png | 23:05 |
| kanzure | ("knowledge" means when someone told me about you, so that's when i acquired "knowledge of you", starting sometime in early december) | 23:06 |
| Martyn | What is it? | 23:07 |
| kanzure | just a log of social interactions | 23:07 |
| kanzure | in the parent directory you'll see a bunch of these graphs | 23:07 |
| Martyn | Bryan, you are one _wierd_ dude. | 23:08 |
| Martyn | Fascinating way of looking at the universe. | 23:09 |
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| kanzure | hello Aliks | 23:10 |
| Aliks | yo | 23:10 |
| Aliks | whats new? | 23:10 |
| kanzure | reading up on some emc2 documentation | 23:12 |
| Aliks | havent heard of it | 23:12 |
| kanzure | http://linuxcnc.org/ | 23:12 |
| Aliks | (I assume there's going to be several things i havent heard of that are common in this group) | 23:12 |
| Aliks | ahh yeah I don't usually do low level stuff | 23:13 |
| Martyn | emc2 is an open source CNC control software. Very useful, and does a great job of controlling machines that otherwise would be locked up with proprietary software. | 23:13 |
| * Aliks nods. | 23:13 | |
| Martyn | kanzure : How are you at regular expressions? | 23:16 |
| Martyn | (perl style) | 23:16 |
| Aliks | Martyn, I might be able to help with that | 23:16 |
| kanzure | not quite a newbie, but not a ninja | 23:17 |
| kanzure | enough to cause some serious damage :) | 23:17 |
| kanzure | can't seem to craft mixed greedy expressions, for instance | 23:17 |
| Martyn | I have a file, where I need to substitute the first 6 ',' characters with <tab> ... leave the 7th one in place | 23:17 |
| Martyn | It's driving me batty | 23:17 |
| Aliks | hmmm are they each on a different line? | 23:18 |
| kanzure | :%s/[,](6)/\t/g | 23:18 |
| kanzure | or something like that | 23:18 |
| kanzure | er wait | 23:18 |
| kanzure | ,{6} | 23:18 |
| kanzure | damn now you have me experimenting | 23:18 |
| Aliks | kanzure, doesnt that assume the ,s are consecutive? | 23:18 |
| Martyn | Aliks : It's a 200+KB file | 23:18 |
| kanzure | Aliks: yes | 23:18 |
| Martyn | Aliks : Each line is a new entry | 23:18 |
| Aliks | Martyn, any delimiters other than , ? | 23:18 |
| Aliks | ah ok | 23:18 |
| kanzure | are the ',' characters consecutive? | 23:19 |
| Aliks | Martyn I assume it's data,data,data,data..., | 23:19 |
| Martyn | no, there is intermixed data .. the ',' -were- the original delimeter .. but the 7th is not a delimeter but rather the literal , in an address | 23:19 |
| kanzure | ok then (.), and then there's a way to specify repeating a certain number of times | 23:19 |
| kanzure | Martyn: yikes sounds like some nasty data | 23:19 |
| Martyn | it's: | 23:19 |
| Aliks | ((.),){6} possibly, kanzure | 23:19 |
| kanzure | Aliks: yeah but the (.) should be made optional, i'm not sure how to do that | 23:20 |
| kanzure | because in some cases it might be data,data,,data,address oh shit | 23:20 |
| Aliks | er.. either way should be .+ | 23:20 |
| Aliks | ((.+),){6} | 23:20 |
| kanzure | god we're geeks | 23:20 |
| Martyn | data,data,234345mixed data with Spaces and possibly \n escaped chars,data,data,data,Anywhere TX, 92117 | 23:20 |
| Aliks | er.. sorry * | 23:20 |
| Aliks | + is 1 or more, has been a while | 23:20 |
| Aliks | Martyn, if it's that much of a pain in the ass | 23:21 |
| Aliks | write yourself an equivalent to PHP's explode function | 23:21 |
| Aliks | then do $sections = explode(',', $line_of_data); | 23:21 |
| kanzure | i tend to jump between fixing bad data with regular expressions, and writing custom scripts to pick up the crap | 23:21 |
| Martyn | Aliks : I already wrote a small python script to do it .. but I /really/ wish I could figure out how to do it in a single regexp | 23:21 |
| Aliks | then reconstruct your data from that | 23:21 |
| Aliks | meh, regex is overrated | 23:21 |
| Aliks | do what does the job, in my opinion | 23:21 |
| kanzure | if you know regular expressions well enough, you can save a lot of time | 23:22 |
| Aliks | your time is worth more than a computer's time | 23:22 |
| Martyn | Heh | 23:22 |
| Martyn | This is plain "for the learning" | 23:22 |
| Aliks | oh I see | 23:22 |
| Aliks | yeah if it's for learning | 23:22 |
| Martyn | I know it's possible... | 23:22 |
| Martyn | and I ripped through the data hours ago | 23:22 |
| Aliks | I dunno, regexes do have some limitations... but yeah this shouldnt be one of them | 23:22 |
| kanzure | Aliks: i don't think (.*) will pick up newlines | 23:22 |
| Aliks | I was designing an alternative a while back... | 23:22 |
| Aliks | called SPEL | 23:22 |
| Aliks | Structured Pattern Expression Language | 23:22 |
| Martyn | ((.),){6} is about right | 23:22 |
| Aliks | abasically a sql query for expressions | 23:23 |
| kanzure | Aliks: look up booleano | 23:23 |
| Aliks | will do | 23:23 |
| kanzure | not quite the same idea, but worth mentioning anyway | 23:23 |
| Aliks | interesting, yeah | 23:23 |
| Aliks | but yeah, I notice regex gets really really nasty sometimes.. lots of nested this and nested that | 23:24 |
| Aliks | so many {{*+[A-Z]***++++))} ... you know what I mean | 23:24 |
| kanzure | there's this linux tool in the debian repositories called "regular expression wizard" or something | 23:24 |
| Aliks | that it would be nicer to organize it almost like a programming language | 23:24 |
| Aliks | like... | 23:24 |
| kanzure | and it shows you in real time as you construct your regex wtf you're doing | 23:24 |
| Aliks | pattern ip_address { 4 (1:3 numbers, 1 '.') } etc. | 23:25 |
| Martyn | Yep, there is also an old DOS program I used years ago that does pretty much just that too | 23:25 |
| Aliks | (bad example but you see what I mean) | 23:25 |
| Martyn | okay, it's getting late, and I've got an early day at work tomorrow. | 23:25 |
| Martyn | whee | 23:25 |
| Martyn | Catch you all later :) | 23:26 |
| kanzure | Aliks: sounds like you wanted a simple parser generator of some sort | 23:26 |
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| Aliks | also in a more expanded form (should be multiline by the way), it was easier to specify things | 23:26 |
| kanzure | martyn needs to learn himself the wonderful powers of "screen" | 23:26 |
| Aliks | like for example... you could just put "greedy" on a line | 23:26 |
| Aliks | just easier to express more complicated stuff | 23:26 |
| Aliks | build in some more advanced things as "language features" for the pattern matcher | 23:26 |
| Aliks | shrug | 23:26 |
| Aliks | hmm... trying to figure out what to do next... | 23:27 |
| kanzure | what do you mean "what to do next"? you mean right now? | 23:28 |
| Aliks | yeah | 23:28 |
| Aliks | the semester is over so I have some time off | 23:28 |
| kanzure | do you run linux | 23:28 |
| Aliks | no | 23:28 |
| Aliks | windows laptop | 23:28 |
| kanzure | spend some time getting acquainted with http://wubi-installer.org/ | 23:28 |
| kanzure | that's a reasonable first project ;) | 23:29 |
| Aliks | nah lol | 23:29 |
| kanzure | although if you're quick with your keyboard maybe it will onyl take an hour | 23:29 |
| Aliks | I have a big to-do list, just a matter of picking what to do first | 23:29 |
| kanzure | you know, the original point of skdb was to solve that problem | 23:29 |
| kanzure | "what the hell should i do first" | 23:29 |
| kanzure | because sometimes, certain tasks enable more tasks | 23:29 |
| kanzure | but it's not really clear when you first look at the huge todo list, wtf should come first | 23:29 |
| Aliks | plus I'm at that point where I'm stopping learning new programming stuff until I've already put what I know to some use | 23:29 |
| Aliks | yeah, its funny you are doing that | 23:30 |
| Aliks | I have a similar project | 23:30 |
| Aliks | let me show you a stupid mockup | 23:30 |
| kanzure | http://heybryan.org/todo.html <-- i stopped this years ago because it was killing me | 23:30 |
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| Aliks | tryin to find dir | 23:31 |
| Aliks | msged it to you | 23:32 |
| Aliks | obviously doesnt work | 23:32 |
| Aliks | was just a mockup for an idea | 23:32 |
| Aliks | I think your tool is really awesome though | 23:34 |
| Aliks | like, tracking meetings in person etc. | 23:34 |
| Aliks | would be nice to tag each meeting with things like... what was discussed, etc. | 23:34 |
| Aliks | so you could call people up while reading the last meeting "Oh yeah Bill, you remember me from such and such.." | 23:34 |
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