| --- Day changed Mon Dec 28 2009 | ||
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| ybit | why are they plans for berkeley's gantry machine not online? why couldn't they just be placed on a server somewhere already | 00:42 |
|---|---|---|
| ybit | google chart api was nothing, just a matter of me not letting my mind wonder off | 00:42 |
| katsmeow-afk | aliks, didn't someone do a pair of glasses with onscreen data display and such for that, like 10 yrs ago? | 00:42 |
| ybit | did they now? | 00:43 |
| katsmeow-afk | i think MIT or CMU or such place | 00:43 |
| Aliks | katsmeow-afk, sounds good | 00:43 |
| ybit | i remember watching a video where it would the person's face would be recognized and anything which was stored about him/her could be retrieved | 00:43 |
| Aliks | BTW sorry if someone was talking earlier and I didnt respond, MIRC sometimes disconnects me and doesnt notify me lol | 00:43 |
| Aliks | so I think people are just being quiet | 00:43 |
| ybit | it was mit | 00:43 |
| ybit | quassel should take care of that | 00:44 |
| katsmeow-afk | yeas, didn't go anywhere, i think some aircraft oem tried it for 3D parts placements and rapid enventory JIT control | 00:44 |
| ybit | i think the project has steadily grown, i certainly doubt it died | 00:44 |
| katsmeow-afk | ybit, wher is it used/sold/developed? | 00:44 |
| Aliks | yeah, I dont really need a glasses thing though.. I dont mind doing a small amount of data entry at the end of the dya | 00:44 |
| ybit | http://www.media.mit.edu/wearables/ katsmeow-afk | 00:45 |
| katsmeow-afk | the glasses didn't do data entry, they werhe heads-up data display only | 00:45 |
| ybit | http://www.media.mit.edu/Wearables/mithril/ | 00:45 |
| ybit | specifically: http://www.media.mit.edu/Wearables/mithril/memory-glasses.html | 00:46 |
| superkuh | I always liked the mithril's wiring. It was usb+i2c+power over cat5. | 00:46 |
| katsmeow-afk | ybit, i had remembered it because i think it wold bre very handy to put them on and see outside the house/boat, as well as overlay radar data or underwater obstruction map data, as i looked around | 00:47 |
| Aliks | lol | 00:48 |
| randallagordon | mmm, HMD goodness. | 00:49 |
| ybit | wulfdesign has a decent idea of making the austin meeting live | 00:50 |
| ybit | kanzure, technologiclee3 | 00:50 |
| * ybit pokes gnusha | 00:50 | |
| katsmeow-afk | http://www.media.mit.edu/Wearables/mithril/memory-glasses.html is dated 2003 , it's 6yrs old | 00:50 |
| ybit | yep | 00:50 |
| Aliks | and there's no commercial product yet??? | 00:51 |
| randallagordon | There are finally a few choices for small, high-resolution LCDs that would be appropriate for high quality HMDs, but that's one of the major limiting factors for commercialization...portable computers with enough horsepower to do something useful would be another, also finally arriving... | 00:53 |
| katsmeow-afk | ranks right up tehre with "no one wants this advanced usefull stuff" i keep saying | 00:53 |
| randallagordon | The market at large thinks bluetooth headsets are dorky, good luck getting people to wear glasses around everywhere... | 00:53 |
| katsmeow-afk | doesn't need to be so portable, in many cases wifi wold be enough to a stationary puter | 00:53 |
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| randallagordon | For geeks, absolutely...and you can get the tech necessary for several grand | 00:54 |
| katsmeow-afk | uch | 00:54 |
| katsmeow-afk | ouch | 00:54 |
| randallagordon | But again, market at large...that's who you have to convince if you want to see the tech become a commodity, which is the prerequisite for low priced hardware | 00:54 |
| Aliks | I dunno, bluetooth seems to be becoming accepted | 00:57 |
| Aliks | I so hate waiting for DNS to propagate | 00:58 |
| ybit | commercial products, see the sidebar here: http://web.media.mit.edu/~msung/ | 00:59 |
| ybit | one of the guys working on this stuff died, p. singh | 00:59 |
| Aliks | sucks | 00:59 |
| ybit | http://web.media.mit.edu/~push/ | 00:59 |
| Aliks | well I guess I will go waste an hour or so driving to walmart since they arent answering the phone... | 01:00 |
| Aliks | and no doubt drive back without the printer ink they no doubt dont carry | 01:00 |
| katsmeow-afk | Push died | 01:00 |
| katsmeow-afk | somehow, several people associated with the open "common senses reasoning" projects over the years have killed themselves | 01:01 |
| Aliks | bah | 01:01 |
| Aliks | is that a conspiracy theory I hear? | 01:03 |
| Aliks | afk for a bit | 01:03 |
| katsmeow-afk | no, but it is common for a huge amount of noise to be intentionally introduced in open project data | 01:03 |
| katsmeow-afk | it's depressing | 01:04 |
| Aliks | hmm noise? | 01:04 |
| randallagordon | ...it has taken 10 years for Bluetooth to gain mild accpetance...but, yes, eventually, HMDs will too. My bets are on contact lens displays taking the cake another 15 years out or so. | 01:04 |
| ybit | sooner? | 01:04 |
| * ybit hopes 10 | 01:05 | |
| Aliks | Bluetooth has been around for 10 years?? | 01:05 |
| katsmeow-afk | i dl'd soem open db of associated words in the 90's and early 2000's, most of some data was along the lines of "somename hadsexwith something" | 01:05 |
| Aliks | lol | 01:05 |
| katsmeow-afk | or fly(trains, "after 10pm on xmas") | 01:05 |
| Aliks | ... | 01:05 |
| katsmeow-afk | or cows read shakespear | 01:06 |
| katsmeow-afk | so time consuming to clean most of it, i deleted it | 01:06 |
| Aliks | yeah | 01:06 |
| katsmeow-afk | it was 100% unuseable raw | 01:06 |
| Aliks | ok really leaving now... back soon i hope | 01:06 |
| katsmeow-afk | i felt sorry for the people managing it, i'm sure they saw it as a slap in the face against progress | 01:06 |
| ybit | http://www.biocas2009.org/index.htm needs to get with it publish papers from the conf | 01:10 |
| ybit | babak parviz's group from washington uni. were supposed to be presenting a paper on contact lenses with built-in virtual graphics | 01:11 |
| katsmeow-afk | contactlenses will prolly need tobe cleared as medical devices, while not glasses | 01:12 |
| ybit | bedtime | 01:16 |
| * ybit waves gn | 01:16 | |
| katsmeow-afk | gnites ybit, stay warm | 01:16 |
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| randallagordon | yeah, there will be hurdles for contacts | 01:28 |
| randallagordon | I see I've missed ybit, but yeah, I'd say we'll see useful, wireless HMDs in the next couple years...but it is generally a good idea to double your timeline when dealing with the public... | 01:28 |
| randallagordon | Slap a pair of these puppie along with some lenses into a headset and you've got a bitchin' steroscopic display: http://www.engadget.com/2009/06/12/kopin-crafts-worlds-smallest-vga-microdisplay-2k-x-2k-postage/ | 01:30 |
| randallagordon | We're starting to see a lot of vital technologies fall into place that should bring us some truly immersive augmented reality apps within the next couple years, at least those of us geeky enough to put the parts together ourselves... | 01:31 |
| randallagordon | HMDs + head tracking == the beginnings of something amazing | 01:31 |
| katsmeow-afk | if only it wold be available | 01:33 |
| randallagordon | If you're handy with a soldering iron, it is right now | 01:33 |
| katsmeow-afk | a working hud on glasses? | 01:33 |
| randallagordon | As soon as I get some spare cash, I intend to snag a couple of Kopin's LCDs and see what I can come up with | 01:33 |
| katsmeow-afk | for under $500 ? | 01:33 |
| randallagordon | ...the hard part is tracking down a way to get just two... | 01:34 |
| randallagordon | for under $500 you can get oldschool used 640x480 HMDs | 01:34 |
| randallagordon | But for optical combination, so you can step beyond VR and into AR, you're looking at a bit more ;) | 01:35 |
| randallagordon | I found a supplier about a year and a half ago that had optical combination HMDs for about $2k...I think they were still VGA, though | 01:35 |
| katsmeow-afk | a few words, a few lines, arrows, is all i was looking for | 01:36 |
| randallagordon | ...haven't really looked at what's available since then | 01:36 |
| randallagordon | But we're just now finally seeing the computing hardware to back it up and make it reasonable to work with | 01:36 |
| randallagordon | lugging around 15lbs+ of gear and laptop that's got the CPU and GPU horsepower to pull off useful tasks is bad enough, then you need the battery power to get more than 15 minutes out of the rig :P | 01:37 |
| katsmeow-afk | again, i was going to wireless it's data feed | 01:39 |
| randallagordon | I've been amazed at what people are able to pull off with the current crop of Cortex A8/PowerVR 530 based mobile chipsets...I'm hoping we'll see some dual Cortex A9/PVR540 chipsets showing up Q3/4 next year...then the cat is out of the bag | 01:39 |
| randallagordon | Still need a lot of gear to pick up the feed and display it | 01:39 |
| katsmeow-afk | lot of gear cold be merely an arduino | 01:40 |
| katsmeow-afk | Our products all draw minimum power, in most uses 200mW to 300mW at full on. The efficiency of this design allows our HMDs to operate on 4 AA batteries for well over 40 hours of continuous use. A whole weeks worth of work on one set of batteries. | 01:41 |
| randallagordon | true | 01:42 |
| randallagordon | seems to me that it would be severly crippled at that point | 01:42 |
| randallagordon | useful for feedback of realtime data | 01:42 |
| randallagordon | but not for true augmented reality, overlaying data onto what you see before you | 01:42 |
| randallagordon | but at that point, I've got a mobile phone in my pocket that can do far more than an Arduino could... | 01:43 |
| * katsmeow-afk nods | 01:43 | |
| randallagordon | trying to track down a project...one sec | 01:43 |
| katsmeow-afk | Virtual Viewer 3D VGA (640x480) with Earbuds - $499.00 | 01:44 |
| randallagordon | http://www.tinmith.net/ | 01:44 |
| randallagordon | That's one of the most mature AR/wearable computing projects I'm aware of | 01:45 |
| randallagordon | Some of their demo videos are jaw dropping | 01:45 |
| katsmeow-afk | yeas, that's going to be super pricey and fragile | 01:46 |
| randallagordon | Once we've got functional UWB wireless radios in our mobile devices, we'll be set | 01:47 |
| katsmeow-afk | http://wearcomp.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_HMD_Products | 01:48 |
| katsmeow-afk | I-glasses 230 NEW LOWER PRICE! Only $119.95 | 01:51 |
| katsmeow-afk | With it’s built in 480 mAH re-chargeable battery, | 01:51 |
| katsmeow-afk | http://www.i-glassesstore.com/ | 01:52 |
| randallagordon | That'd be sufficient for toying with an arduino | 01:52 |
| randallagordon | There's a shield for generating composite video isn't there? | 01:53 |
| katsmeow-afk | i don'tknow | 01:53 |
| randallagordon | (I haven't toyed with them much...I've got a Teensy, that's as close as I've gotten to arduinos...) | 01:53 |
| Utopiah | I don't want to sound sarcastic but since 2005 or so "wearcomp" ~= mobile phone :/ | 01:54 |
| randallagordon | Pretty much | 01:54 |
| * katsmeow-afk nods | 01:55 | |
| randallagordon | Hence my interest in seeing OMAP4 based devices...enough power to do truly useful apps while mantaining useful battery life...we just need a UWB radio spec to talk to a headset and we're really ready to rock & roll | 01:55 |
| randallagordon | ...but as I mentioned before, it has taken a decade for Bluetooth to catch on, and only really thanks to laws requiring hands free devices while driving...overall BT is a giant pain in the posterior to use, even for geeks... | 01:56 |
| randallagordon | so I'm not too hopefuly for seeing a useful UWB spec any time soon | 01:56 |
| randallagordon | er...hopeful even | 01:56 |
| randallagordon | really, what is holding us back is battery tech | 01:58 |
| katsmeow-afk | arg | 01:59 |
| randallagordon | if we could store enough power, we'd have had this tech long ago | 01:59 |
| katsmeow-afk | 40 hrs in a battery charge, and i still hear " we need better batteries" | 01:59 |
| randallagordon | ...I'm *very* suspicious of that claim | 01:59 |
| randallagordon | which headset was that spec quoted from? | 02:00 |
| katsmeow-afk | http://www.i-glassesstore.com/ i think | 02:00 |
| randallagordon | Liteye? | 02:01 |
| randallagordon | oooh, they do have OC HMDs | 02:01 |
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| katsmeow-afk | 10hrs on http://www.myvu.com/ | 02:02 |
| randallagordon | They appear to do defense contracting... | 02:02 |
| randallagordon | So I'd guess those HMDs are north of $3k | 02:02 |
| randallagordon | It isn't difficult to get 10+ hours...it is a matter of how much you're willing to lug around | 02:03 |
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| randallagordon | granted, for your app, that wouldn't be a problem | 02:03 |
| randallagordon | but in the context of "why isn't this mainstream", it is a very big issue | 02:03 |
| randallagordon | I can run a Li-poly pack and get a week's worth of usage out of an HMD | 02:03 |
| katsmeow-afk | well, 1/2 watt of power pull, and i saw some 10ah D nicads for $11 the other day, that's 24hrs | 02:04 |
| randallagordon | But am I willing to lug around pounds of batteries everywhere? No. | 02:04 |
| randallagordon | ewwww, nicads? :P | 02:04 |
| katsmeow-afk | <shrug> i saw them, just saying | 02:04 |
| randallagordon | hehe, nicads get their rears kicked by nimh | 02:04 |
| randallagordon | http://www.cheapbatterypacks.com/ | 02:05 |
| randallagordon | They've got a lot of loose cells and supplies for making your own packs | 02:05 |
| katsmeow-afk | i wasn't arguing | 02:05 |
| katsmeow-afk | just saying, old technology getting 24hrs already | 02:05 |
| randallagordon | Oh, I know, I'm just poking fun | 02:06 |
| randallagordon | I toy with RC electrics from time to time, nicads are mostly junk for power density concerns...they're great if you need to deliver a lot of power quickly, though | 02:06 |
| randallagordon | You can get nearly double the power density with nimh vs nicad | 02:07 |
| randallagordon | Slightly heavier, though, so that is a tradeoff | 02:07 |
| randallagordon | generally going to get better power falloff too | 02:08 |
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| biohackernoob | hey kanzure you here? | 02:09 |
| randallagordon | greetings biohackernoob | 02:09 |
| biohackernoob | hi | 02:09 |
| randallagordon | I haven't seen him chime in the last hour or so that I've been paying attention | 02:09 |
| biohackernoob | oh ok | 02:10 |
| randallagordon | looks like he was last active around 21:30 PST | 02:10 |
| biohackernoob | dang | 02:10 |
| biohackernoob | ill have to find someone else to answer my question | 02:10 |
| randallagordon | holy crikey, they've got a 5Ah sub C cell now | 02:10 |
| katsmeow-afk | wow | 02:11 |
| biohackernoob | do u have any experience/knowledge of transformation and transfection of plant cells? | 02:11 |
| katsmeow-afk | cost? | 02:11 |
| randallagordon | ...I wish...I'm just starting my adventure with bio | 02:11 |
| randallagordon | $5/cell | 02:11 |
| biohackernoob | same, hence the name :P | 02:11 |
| randallagordon | hehe, I see | 02:12 |
| * katsmeow-afk ponders putting them into the laptop,, with help of the dremel tool | 02:12 | |
| randallagordon | I'm doing well keeping my plants alive in my hydro setup for the time being | 02:12 |
| randallagordon | they're still going to get slaughtered by decenit li-ion cells, katsmeow-afk | 02:13 |
| randallagordon | remember, that one cell is only providing 1.2v | 02:13 |
| katsmeow-afk | drat, i was thinking 3v | 02:13 |
| randallagordon | nicad/nimh cells provide ~1.2 | 02:14 |
| * katsmeow-afk nods | 02:14 | |
| randallagordon | li-ion's generally are 3.2ish as I recall | 02:14 |
| katsmeow-afk | RS marketed a hicap D nicad for yrs that was 1.4v | 02:14 |
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| biohackernoob | also, does anyone know where i can buy pHK724 and pHK555 plasmids? | 02:14 |
| katsmeow-afk | i bought a mess of those | 02:14 |
| randallagordon | 1.2 is generally the "nominal" voltage...fresh off a charge they'll get up as high as 1.7 in some cases | 02:14 |
| katsmeow-afk | these held 1.4 for a looooong time under load | 02:15 |
| Aliks | I saw you guys were talkin about the HMDs while I was away... anyone know about something related... I was looking for an automatic-upload-to-internet video camera, especially wearable | 02:15 |
| randallagordon | I made several 6-cell, series packs using the Elite 1500 2/3A cells for my RCs...they'd top off at 1.65ish and hold out to about 1.3 before a rapid falloff | 02:15 |
| randallagordon | hrmmm...checked out Eye-fi? I seem to remember an announcement of a version that is video capable? | 02:16 |
| randallagordon | and there are apps like Qik for some platforms | 02:17 |
| randallagordon | iPhone and Symbian are supported, I believe | 02:17 |
| Aliks | hmm | 02:17 |
| randallagordon | and Bambuser | 02:18 |
| randallagordon | it supports Android, I think | 02:18 |
| katsmeow-afk | fenn : if still looking for cheap 12 inch digital calipers : http://www.amazon.com/Neiko-Pro-Grade-Digital-Stainless-Measuring/dp/B000EJUBBU/ref=pd_bxgy_hi_text_b | 02:18 |
| Aliks | very nice | 02:19 |
| Aliks | thanks randallagordon | 02:19 |
| katsmeow-afk | you canget the 6 + 8 + 12 for $57 | 02:19 |
| randallagordon | Google just needs to hurry up and land a national whitespace band 4G network and call it good... ;) | 02:22 |
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| randallagordon | Damn those peers | 02:24 |
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| randallagordon | Always resetting people's connections... | 02:24 |
| Aliks | grr this disconnection is annoying | 02:25 |
| biohackernoob | where do i buy plasmids? | 02:32 |
| biohackernoob | or better yet, where do YOU guys buy plasmids? | 02:37 |
| * katsmeow-afk never bought one, so isn't going to say | 02:38 | |
| randallagordon | I'm more of a bio noob than you are, so, yeah...never purchased any | 02:38 |
| randallagordon | http://www.1centbp.com/ <-- lists services for sequencing... | 02:38 |
| * katsmeow-afk is more into data and ai and other nonsense than bio | 02:40 | |
| Aliks | gahh disconnected again? | 02:41 |
| randallagordon | apparently you're still here? ;) | 02:42 |
| katsmeow-afk | i still see you | 02:42 |
| Aliks | ah ok | 02:43 |
| Aliks | lol starting to get paranoid | 02:43 |
| katsmeow-afk | you're using mirc, are you replying to the server's PING with the required PONG ? (note the all caps on both) | 02:43 |
| Aliks | it seems to be | 02:43 |
| Aliks | shrug | 02:44 |
| randallagordon | have you tried HydraIRC? I've been digging it thus far... | 02:45 |
| Aliks | I'll check it out | 02:45 |
| katsmeow-afk | i beenusing mirc since 1995 | 02:46 |
| katsmeow-afk | or 96,, i forget | 02:46 |
| biohackernoob | randallagordon: i dont understand the link you gave me, none of those sites have search functions for specific plasmids? :S | 02:48 |
| Aliks | was watching some SKDB stuff on youtube | 02:48 |
| Aliks | pretty cool stuff | 02:48 |
| katsmeow-afk | Aliks, some isp will drop a connection if it is idle over 5 minutes, try typing this: //timer 0 300 /ctcp chanserv ping | 02:52 |
| katsmeow-afk | that will ping chanserv every 5 minutes as a keep-alive | 02:52 |
| katsmeow-afk | you can change the 300 to anything you like, but i wold not go under 120sec | 02:52 |
| katsmeow-afk | they take a dim view of harrassing services | 02:52 |
| Aliks | nice thanks | 02:53 |
| Aliks | this Factor-E-Farm sounds very interesting | 02:53 |
| Aliks | I've been all over high tech topics for years, and I havent heard of any of this | 02:53 |
| Aliks | somebody needs to do some publicity | 02:53 |
| katsmeow-afk | you can verify the timer sis set by typing: //timers | 02:53 |
| randallagordon | biohackernoob, they're for submitting your own sequences...most of them have their own software available to use, I believe | 02:54 |
| biohackernoob | :/ i just want to order pHK724 and pHK555 | 02:55 |
| randallagordon | Ah | 02:55 |
| randallagordon | I'm no help there | 02:55 |
| Aliks | DIYcar would be interesting... (random thought) Everyone bitches and moans about needing all kinds of equipment and electronics to work on your car (anything besides changing a tire) | 02:56 |
| randallagordon | googling them, I take it you're aiming to make fluorescent e. coli? | 02:56 |
| Aliks | Would be nice if a car was designed around easy maintainability with bare minimum equipment | 02:56 |
| randallagordon | heh, only oldschool mechanics bitch about that | 02:56 |
| biohackernoob | randallagordon: actually bioluminescent plants... | 02:57 |
| randallagordon | I <3 my bluetooth OBD II diag dongle | 02:57 |
| biohackernoob | but i cant find ANY info on how/where to order plasmids of any kind! | 02:57 |
| randallagordon | very nice | 02:57 |
| randallagordon | http://addgene.com may be useful? | 02:57 |
| biohackernoob | well they have some lux plasmids.. but not the ones im looking for... | 03:00 |
| randallagordon | lol... "These aren't the plasmids you're looking for." | 03:04 |
| randallagordon | "Move along, move along." | 03:04 |
| * biohackernoob smacks face against desk | 03:04 | |
| randallagordon | sorry, couldn't resist ;) | 03:06 |
| * biohackernoob goes to sleep | 03:17 | |
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| kanzure | ybit: there's no internet connection in les' shop. that's why i'm not living there. | 03:38 |
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| Aliks | hum | 04:18 |
| Aliks | interesting talk you did, kanzure | 04:18 |
| Aliks | watched the youtube vid | 04:18 |
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| Aliks | wb | 04:31 |
| randallagordon | thanks | 04:37 |
| randallagordon | finally got SplitCam and my Sony camcorder to play nice together... | 04:37 |
| randallagordon | ...now if only I could get my camcorder and audio interface to play nice... | 04:37 |
| Aliks | randallagordon, whats your area of specialty? | 04:41 |
| randallagordon | software | 04:50 |
| randallagordon | although lately I've been focusing mostly on graphics design...and I've got a good dose of hardware thrown in...I enjoy toying with uCs and FPGAs | 04:51 |
| * Aliks nods. | 04:51 | |
| Aliks | wow, random thing... http://www.alllaw.com/calculators/Childsupport/California/ scary | 04:51 |
| Aliks | (I dont have kids just for the record) | 04:51 |
| randallagordon | why does that URL make me think that I'll want to throw things after visiting it? | 04:52 |
| Aliks | yeah I'm also software oriented... CS/bio | 04:52 |
| Aliks | yeah I had a similar reaction | 04:52 |
| Aliks | I was just curious about a what-if scenario | 04:52 |
| randallagordon | aye | 04:52 |
| Aliks | like, what-if I was making a decent amount of money after graduating from college, then some girl decided to say she was on the pill and wasnt because I am driving a mercedes.. | 04:52 |
| randallagordon | glad I made it out of my divorce without kids | 04:53 |
| Aliks | apparently 1 kid is about 20% of your income.. slightly less if you make lots and lots of money | 04:53 |
| Aliks | 2 is about 35% | 04:53 |
| Aliks | thats like... wow | 04:54 |
| randallagordon | wow, indeed | 04:54 |
| randallagordon | best hope you be makin' bank! ;) | 04:55 |
| katsmeow-afk | so get *your* tubes tied! | 04:55 |
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| randallagordon | bingo | 04:55 |
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| randallagordon | there's that damn peer again, resetting connections | 04:56 |
| katsmeow-afk | Aliks, so get *your* tubes tied! | 04:56 |
| Aliks | I'm thinking about it | 04:56 |
| Aliks | lol | 04:56 |
| Aliks | yeah, thinkin about it katsmeow-afk | 04:56 |
| randallagordon | wooow, some of the best light painting I've seen in a while: http://www.pixelelement.com/amazing-light-painting-photography/ | 04:57 |
| Aliks | but I dunno... there's a few small downsides to that | 04:57 |
| Aliks | definitely not as big of a downside as losing 35% of income though | 04:57 |
| katsmeow-afk | it's the only way to take responsibility and ensure you won't be blamed | 04:57 |
| katsmeow-afk | it's reversable | 04:57 |
| Aliks | yes | 04:57 |
| Aliks | well | 04:57 |
| Aliks | lol | 04:57 |
| Aliks | reversable in principle... success is a little less than what I'd call safe | 04:57 |
| Aliks | and even "success" means a reduction | 04:57 |
| Aliks | still not back where you were usually | 04:58 |
| Aliks | but then, I might not want kids anyway so.. | 04:58 |
| Aliks | shrug | 04:58 |
| katsmeow-afk | 0% of me and my sisters are having kids, but one did adopt from China | 04:59 |
| Aliks | wow, Texas child support laws are sooo much more favorable | 04:59 |
| Aliks | about 10% of California amounts | 04:59 |
| randallagordon | Wooooo, go Texas! ;) | 05:01 |
| Aliks | Nevada is similar | 05:02 |
| Aliks | I wonder if CA just rapes the men for some reason | 05:02 |
| randallagordon | Could always go for mass chemical castratian via public water supplies... ;) (very much being sarcastic) | 05:02 |
| Aliks | lol | 05:02 |
| randallagordon | heh, well CA verus Texas and Nevada are about as Apples to Oranges as you can get ;) | 05:03 |
| Aliks | ya | 05:03 |
| randallagordon | Most Democratic state verus most Republican...hmmmmmm, hehe | 05:03 |
| Aliks | yeah, I tend to prefer blue states in general but the red ones do have advantages | 05:04 |
| Aliks | I think it depends on what economic strata you're in within the state | 05:04 |
| Aliks | red state + low strata = bad | 05:04 |
| randallagordon | NV ftw | 05:04 |
| Aliks | blue state + high strata = bad | 05:04 |
| Aliks | yeah until I get out of this state my new policy is not to screw anyone that doesnt have something to lose | 05:05 |
| Aliks | like, has their own education etc on the line if they had a kid | 05:05 |
| Aliks | no wonder there are so many homosexuals in this state... it's the only affordable orientation here | 05:06 |
| randallagordon | Probably a good plan | 05:06 |
| Aliks | lol | 05:06 |
| randallagordon | lol | 05:06 |
| Aliks | sleeptime | 05:09 |
| * Aliks slumps over and you hear a soft "click". | 05:10 | |
| randallagordon | likewise | 05:10 |
| randallagordon | sleep well | 05:10 |
| Aliks | you too | 05:10 |
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| technologiclee3 | intresting blog http://metamodern.com | 06:22 |
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| kanzure | genehackerAFK: when are you back in austin? | 08:04 |
| kanzure | Aliks: re: your auto-emailer, you should read this: http://groups.google.com/group/diytranshumanist/msg/868fb2a20a135fb9?hl=en | 08:06 |
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| kanzure | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_Margin | 08:36 |
| kanzure | hm someone just contacted me who is "trying to reconstruct technological civilization on a small farm" | 08:36 |
| kanzure | can we have some bets as to whether or not this is someone from factor e farm? | 08:37 |
| technologiclee3 | i like the email thing - they would call it factory e farm - all farms kind of do that really | 08:53 |
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| kanzure | hello Iocus | 08:59 |
| kanzure | hm here's another weird query that leads to my site: "candy that looks like mitochondria" | 09:00 |
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| kanzure | hello eleitl | 09:08 |
| kanzure | i have decided that nanorex can't code worth shit | 09:08 |
| eleitl | hi kanzure. | 09:11 |
| eleitl | nanorex is nanoengineer? | 09:11 |
| eleitl | I don't know who wrote the code. | 09:12 |
| eleitl | sf lists nanorex and nsathaye as project founders. I presume very few guys wrote the code. I've never looked at it myself. | 09:14 |
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| technologiclee3 | yes - but when it runis it does so beautifly - just take the best parts nd make something better | 09:15 |
| eleitl | I presume the issue is about how much of nanoengineer-1 is of value to skdb. Apparently, not so much. | 09:16 |
| technologiclee3 | hahahha - show me a better modeling tool and i will use it | 09:17 |
| eleitl | that is not the question, technologiclee3. | 09:17 |
| eleitl | the background is reusing pieces of nanoengineer-1 in skdb. | 09:18 |
| technologiclee3 | ya - thats the way to go | 09:18 |
| eleitl | what do you use nanoengineer-1 for, technologiclee3? | 09:19 |
| technologiclee3 | NE1 uses QuteMolX - Open Babel - Gromacs - GNU plot - POV -RAY - Mega Pov -- NE1 is just glue to hold these packages together | 09:20 |
| technologiclee3 | so far it has taught me a good deal about the command line ;) | 09:20 |
| technologiclee3 | when i had access to Xp boxes i made training tutorial vids - to help get the word put (and maybe a job) | 09:21 |
| eleitl | are you trying to do molecular design? | 09:21 |
| eleitl | molecular modelling jobs are a bit rare. | 09:21 |
| technologiclee3 | yes - but it has taken a detour into software design | 09:21 |
| eleitl | it's mostly pharma, and they do virtual screening, which is very different. | 09:22 |
| technologiclee3 | when they become more numerous i will have my foundatons laid | 09:22 |
| kanzure | nanoengineer1 has some interesting ideas though. they have a class for a nanotube that i can reuse. | 09:22 |
| technologiclee3 | alright! | 09:23 |
| eleitl | I picked chemistry in 1988 in order to do nanotechnology. Now it's 2010, and nano is still stalled. | 09:23 |
| technologiclee3 | it's about the software and the tools to make the designs - alot of work has been done to get the point to where we can do these things | 09:24 |
| eleitl | To call this disappointing is a massive understatement. | 09:24 |
| technologiclee3 | i think it has reached critical mass - and yes over the past 10 years i thought they would have more to show for it too | 09:25 |
| kanzure | i really enjoyed this: http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=7B44F742F8C9A48C it's a playlist showing cnc machines | 09:26 |
| eleitl | I see zero momentum for nano in the mainstream. Even MNT has shrunk massively since when Nanosystems was new. | 09:26 |
| technologiclee3 | yes, but we are not the mainstream, this is what i do | 09:27 |
| eleitl | the hexapod would work great on microscale | 09:27 |
| technologiclee3 | yes - like a stewart platform | 09:28 |
| kanzure | eleitl: have you seen the hextatic? | 09:28 |
| kanzure | eleitl: http://fennetic.net/bfi/hextatic.jpg | 09:28 |
| eleitl | The problem with being not the mainstream is that you're completely marginalized. | 09:28 |
| eleitl | I've seen precursors of the hextatic design. They've been around for a while. | 09:29 |
| kanzure | apparently someone at NIST made a stewart platform once, but i've never met anyone who has one in operation | 09:29 |
| eleitl | There is not much point for that in the macroscale, probably. | 09:30 |
| technologiclee3 | thats not new for me - i am often right and wait for the rest to catch up - i'm not going to wait in the meantime - which brings me here after 3hrs sleep and loving it | 09:30 |
| kanzure | it's more for portability and desktop cnc machining | 09:30 |
| eleitl | rock on, technologiclee3. | 09:30 |
| eleitl | me, I need a lot more than 3 h, and also a source of income to pay the bills. | 09:31 |
| technologiclee3 | eleitl: that design looks like on from the best of robots 2009 - it can do some real work | 09:31 |
| kanzure | how much of an income do you need eugen? | 09:31 |
| genehackerAFK | nano hex platforms? | 09:31 |
| genehackerAFK | err micro hex platforms | 09:31 |
| kanzure | desktop size isn't "micro" | 09:31 |
| genehackerAFK | what do you use for actuators? | 09:31 |
| kanzure | ask fenn | 09:31 |
| genehackerAFK | oops | 09:31 |
| eleitl | at nanoscale you can use telescoping buckys, electrostatically actuated. | 09:32 |
| genehackerAFK | what about at microscale | 09:32 |
| eleitl | this looks hydraulic to me | 09:32 |
| technologiclee3 | yes - we were thinking that - i'll get a pic... | 09:33 |
| eleitl | microscale you could use linear motors | 09:33 |
| genehackerAFK | how do you make it? | 09:33 |
| eleitl | what, the microscale Stewart? | 09:33 |
| genehackerAFK | yeah | 09:33 |
| genehackerAFK | or the nanoscale one | 09:33 |
| genehackerAFK | I guess you could use self assembly | 09:33 |
| eleitl | depending on the bootstrap route | 09:33 |
| eleitl | yes, a mix of bottom-up autoassembly and top-down. | 09:34 |
| eleitl | would you consider a 1 mm Stewart macro or micro? | 09:34 |
| genehackerAFK | well it's on a macroscale size scale | 09:35 |
| kanzure | 1mm diameter or what | 09:35 |
| kanzure | or 1mm feature size | 09:35 |
| eleitl | it still has ~um sized components, and probably operates on ~nm scale. | 09:35 |
| genehackerAFK | AFK | 09:35 |
| technologiclee3 | http://ngineers.ning.com/forum/topics/animation-of-a-linear-servo?xg_source=activity | 09:35 |
| genehackerAFK | look up size scales | 09:35 |
| eleitl | did you render this, technologiclee3? | 09:36 |
| technologiclee3 | not this is Tom Moore - i saw his blog post in my nano searching and ended up getting NE-1 | 09:37 |
| kanzure | crap now i forgot what i'm doing right now | 09:37 |
| eleitl | work first, kanzure. | 09:37 |
| kanzure | wtf was i working on | 09:37 |
| technologiclee3 | as far as i know there are only a handful of people to ever use NE-1 | 09:37 |
| kanzure | hm | 09:37 |
| technologiclee3 | naotube class | 09:38 |
| eleitl | I've played with it a few years ago. I don't see much point in in machina games, it's the bootstrap that is hard. | 09:38 |
| kanzure | oh i guess skdb documentation first, then nanotube class crap | 09:38 |
| kanzure | eleitl: i can't convince lee that seeing pretty pictures of nanotech isn't the same thing as bootstrapping it :) | 09:38 |
| eleitl | good luck with that, kanzure. | 09:38 |
| kanzure | a lot of documentation tools (like restructuredtext) want you to learn a new formatting language | 09:39 |
| technologiclee3 | ahhh - it's not about the pictures - it's about design validation | 09:39 |
| eleitl | if you have to do computational work, it would be mapping the space of anabolic/catabolic machine-phase tooltip reactions. | 09:39 |
| kanzure | papers please | 09:39 |
| technologiclee3 | some one in here said ' whats the point of designing things you can not build' | 09:39 |
| technologiclee3 | that can be done in autocad as well | 09:40 |
| eleitl | at the same time, you will need to validate the computational work empirically | 09:40 |
| technologiclee3 | the point is to know what capabilites you have and design things you can build - bootstapping | 09:40 |
| kanzure | i haven't read any papers on machine-phase tool tip reactions, and i don't have any. any suggestions | 09:40 |
| eleitl | that is a basically a lot of tedious lab work with functionalized proximal probe. | 09:40 |
| technologiclee3 | i think we are all on the pame page but have different backgrounds | 09:40 |
| eleitl | moment, kanzure. coming. | 09:40 |
| technologiclee3 | i do not know that NE-1 has ever been disproven - and it has been used to model things that agree well with reality | 09:41 |
| eleitl | http://www.molecularassembler.com/Papers/MinToolset.pdf | 09:42 |
| kanzure | thanks | 09:42 |
| eleitl | technologiclee3, all known forcefields have limits. The problem is not the accuracy, the problem is bootstrap. | 09:42 |
| eleitl | kanzure, this is very much like rapid prototyping | 09:43 |
| technologiclee3 | i've seen the tool tip papers - i will bring them here when i find them - again | 09:43 |
| eleitl | there's a continuum between ink-dip nanolitho and true machine phase. In situ polymerisation of monomers is pretty much machine-phase. | 09:44 |
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| technologiclee3 | yes thats the one of them - one of the best | 09:44 |
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| eleitl | Get a cumulene strand into a bucky lumen of a functionalized tooltip, and we're talking. | 09:44 |
| eleitl | design an enzyme which can secrete an infinite cumulene strand, and we're talking^2 | 09:45 |
| eleitl | fluorine-terminated bucky should prevent self-attachement. HOPG would be a good substrate. | 09:46 |
| technologiclee3 | at this point - i think one accesible way to boot strap it through dan origami - it is givid subnanometer precision and self assembly | 09:46 |
| eleitl | the advantage is that this tool is continuous-operation. No need for regeneration cycles. | 09:46 |
| eleitl | DNA orgigami is neat. I did not think it would be that easy. | 09:47 |
| technologiclee3 | i don't know about 'easy' - but accesible at this point without high vacum and class 10 clean room | 09:48 |
| kanzure | http://drugdiscoveryathome.com/ | 09:48 |
| kanzure | http://hydrogenathome.org/ | 09:48 |
| eleitl | I did not think that DNA would be rich enough for 2D patterning. I expected it would take proteins. | 09:48 |
| kanzure | eleitl: the dna origami people want to use it to put nano-scale electronics equipment in particular places. did you read the rothemund transcript i typed up? | 09:49 |
| kanzure | eleitl: the transcript: http://designfiles.org/lab/2009-09-15-rothemund-utexas.html | 09:49 |
| eleitl | I did not read it. The idea is as old as the hills. The difference is actually doing it. | 09:49 |
| kanzure | okay | 09:49 |
| kanzure | there wasn't anything new in the talk' | 09:49 |
| eleitl | thanks for the transcript. reading it. | 09:50 |
| kanzure | google is giving me ads for "affordable cryonics" with a guy named "ruddi hoffman" | 09:52 |
| eleitl | Rudi is good. | 09:53 |
| kanzure | "certified financial planner" huh | 09:53 |
| eleitl | Inasmuch you currently get good value for your cryonics contract is arguable however. | 09:53 |
| eleitl | Things have gone to shit lately. | 09:53 |
| kanzure | the student price at alcor is $200/year last i heard | 09:54 |
| Trooem | there is a student price? wow hahaha | 09:54 |
| eleitl | Alcor badly needs fixing. Nobody so far has been able. | 09:54 |
| kanzure | what's wrong? i haven't heard anything | 09:55 |
| eleitl | Cryonics is in cargo cult/snake oil mode since around 2000 or so. | 09:55 |
| eleitl | It is getting bad and worse all the time. | 09:55 |
| Trooem | the only answer: private cryonics. ever wandered if alcor is using the truly latest, most expensive avalible stuff? doubt it aye.. | 09:57 |
| Trooem | it's for individual pricing so.. | 09:57 |
| Trooem | there could be something better and more guaranteed out there | 09:58 |
| Trooem | people ought to hire cryonists and ask them | 09:58 |
| eleitl | If you plan your expiration and have a few megabucks to spare, it would work. | 09:58 |
| Trooem | yeah i'm guessing that... | 09:58 |
| eleitl | you have to hire the very best people, and they're not cheap. | 09:59 |
| eleitl | Since they're not doing cryonics, but R&D. | 09:59 |
| Trooem | whats R&D? | 09:59 |
| kanzure | research and development | 09:59 |
| Trooem | oh | 09:59 |
| Trooem | yeah.. i guess only way is to threaten them mwa hahahaha. | 10:00 |
| Trooem | or have the money :) | 10:00 |
| eleitl | Darwin has been MIA for the last 3-5 months. | 10:00 |
| eleitl | Nobody knows where he is. | 10:00 |
| kanzure | wyho? | 10:00 |
| eleitl | After he went back to US he disappeared without a trace. Nobody can find him. I hope he's not dead. | 10:01 |
| kanzure | another missing person is "nathan cravens" in the UK as of a few weeks ago (he's into open manufacturing) | 10:01 |
| kanzure | if you have some UK people maybe they can help | 10:01 |
| kanzure | if you know where darwin went, and have his full name, i might know some people in the area | 10:02 |
| eleitl | he's probably just taking his vacation from cryonics. I hope, not a permanent one. | 10:03 |
| eleitl | the experiences in UK and Europe in general wasn't too hot | 10:03 |
| eleitl | wow is my computer crap. | 10:11 |
| kanzure | eleitl: http://designfiles.org/~bryan/meetlog/analysis.20091227 | 10:12 |
| kanzure | eleitl: http://designfiles.org/~bryan/meetlog/graphs/eugen_leitl.png (data is missing from yours i think) | 10:12 |
| eleitl | is that a trend, or what. | 10:13 |
| kanzure | it's an accumulative look at how many times i've interacted with you over the internet in late 2009 | 10:14 |
| kanzure | it's really sketchy. for some people i have good data back to 2003, for others (you) i haven't imported the data back to 2007 when i met you | 10:14 |
| kanzure | here's what someone else might look like: http://designfiles.org/~bryan/meetlog/graphs/eric_katerman.png | 10:15 |
| eleitl | I think I've mostly disappeared for the last 2.5 years, or so. | 10:16 |
| eleitl | Kids will do that to you. Notice Amara has gone completely. | 10:16 |
| eleitl | how well do you know Todd, kanzure? | 10:24 |
| eleitl | I've looked at his flickr stream for first time in years, and there's no way he's getting shit done | 10:29 |
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| technologiclee3 | how brain encodes memories http://www.physorg.com/news180780161.html | 10:59 |
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| technologiclee3 | memory stored in brain tissue http://www.physorg.com/news180848772.html | 11:12 |
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| eleitl | damn, no paper out yet. | 11:15 |
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| kanzure | how weird. http://designfiles.org/~bryan/screenshots/2009-12-28-kapchist.png | 11:21 |
| kanzure | eleitl: i don't know him at all. he just keeps on showing up when ever i speak at a conference | 11:22 |
| kanzure | and he shows up in weird email chains that i get (cc spam) that are completely unrelated | 11:22 |
| kanzure | for instance i first met him at biobarcamp 2008, then in early 2009 i met him because he was funding an afghanistan fablab | 11:22 |
| kanzure | hey rmadams | 11:22 |
| rmadams | hey kanzure | 11:23 |
| eleitl | however large his candle, he's burning them on too many ends. | 11:23 |
| eleitl | apparently having fun however. little wrong with that, if that's what you want. | 11:23 |
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| rmadams | kanzure: question- from your H+ 2009 talk, you mentioned a hacked two-scanner lasercutter. Do you have a URL for it? | 11:32 |
| kanzure | hey DrH | 11:35 |
| kanzure | diybio on NPR: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=121954328 | 11:35 |
| kanzure | rmadams: this is all i know about. imajilon laser http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2258/2210335514_619902c08b.jpg | 11:35 |
| kanzure | fenn might know some more | 11:36 |
| DrH | hi | 11:36 |
| rmadams | kanzure: thanks1 | 11:36 |
| rmadams | kanzure: thanks also for the mention (and picture) of the fabbed belt-buckle that I worked on- totally cool! | 11:37 |
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| kanzure | rmadams: hope you liked the talk :) | 11:38 |
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| rmadams | kanzure: fantastic! Really really interesting. | 11:38 |
| kanzure | hey transplexity | 11:38 |
| kanzure | daniel s. h.? | 11:38 |
| kanzure | rmadams: i'm gearing up to start some builds. i'm thinking of doing a cnc machine in a cubespawn cube. | 11:39 |
| rmadams | kanzure: lots of cool stuff of that sort going on. cathal garvey and I have been designing and developing a range of rapid-fabrication bio lab equipment, gel boxes, centrifuge, etc. that can all be printed on a RepRap or similar | 11:39 |
| kanzure | yeah but cathal only works in meshes | 11:39 |
| transplexity | yes, I just changed the nick. First time around here. Thanks. | 11:39 |
| transplexity | So what's going on around here? | 11:40 |
| rmadams | the open SCAD stuff can generate CSG, too, I think- need a slightly differnt compiler, of course. :-) | 11:40 |
| kanzure | there is no way (yet) to recover anything useful from openscad | 11:40 |
| kanzure | why not just work in an actual CAD environment? | 11:40 |
| technologiclee3 | about EMC - if your beyond hard in Ubuntu - its a nogo - Note: Do Not upgrade Ubuntu from 6.06 to 8.04 or upgrade from 8.04 to 8.10. The precompiled versions of EMC2 are only compatible with the Ubuntu version they were compiled with. Upgrading will remove the EMC packages and make your system unable to run EMC. | 11:40 |
| eleitl | you want to be in Scottsdale, AZ, transplexity. Bay Area is also more or less represented. | 11:40 |
| kanzure | eleitl: you mean trooem | 11:41 |
| eleitl | Cryo in Germany is doing badly. Too few people on too bad duty cycle. | 11:41 |
| rmadams | Dunno- you have to ask Cathal- I assume that he likes the pure programability. | 11:41 |
| kanzure | rmadams: i really really suggest/recommend HeeksCAD. please stop making meshes | 11:41 |
| kanzure | catha is a guy? | 11:41 |
| kanzure | *cathal | 11:41 |
| kanzure | huh. | 11:41 |
| rmadams | Yep. | 11:41 |
| transplexity | I see... | 11:41 |
| technologiclee3 | whatever drives the CNC machine cn be dedicated tho | 11:41 |
| rmadams | Cathal is an Irish male name | 11:41 |
| kanzure | i didn't know | 11:41 |
| eleitl | trooem, then. | 11:41 |
| kanzure | technologiclee3: i'll take a look at it when the time comes. it sounds like i just need to recompile the emc software | 11:42 |
| kanzure | rmadams: so, the advantage of CAD models like CSG or brep is that you can convert them to meshes if you want | 11:42 |
| kanzure | but you can't do it the other way around (mesh->CSG or brep) | 11:42 |
| kanzure | povray and openscad both have promised that one day in the future there will be a parser that generates, say, an IGES file | 11:42 |
| kanzure | oh well | 11:42 |
| transplexity | A stupid question: do I need to manually annotate all information, or is there some kind of chat auto-saving? | 11:42 |
| kanzure | i'm not going to convince you in one sitting | 11:42 |
| kanzure | transplexity: are you in chatzilla? there should be an "auto logging" checkbox somewhere hidden in the menus | 11:43 |
| eleitl | how real is the whole fabbing scene? is this a flash in the pan? I can't tell. | 11:43 |
| kanzure | transplexity: if you want previous logs, see here: http://designfiles.org/~bryan/hplusroadmap.log.tar.gz | 11:43 |
| kanzure | eleitl: there's a few hundred hackerspaces, and make magazine has a wide distribution (but make magazine sucks) | 11:43 |
| transplexity | Yeah, I'll check it | 11:43 |
| ybit | 10:29 < eleitl> I've looked at his flickr stream for first time in years, and there's no way he's getting shit done | 11:44 |
| eleitl | few 100? wow, this is impressive. | 11:44 |
| ybit | huffman? | 11:44 |
| kanzure | ybit: yes | 11:44 |
| kanzure | eleitl: yeah, see a list: http://hackerspaces.org/wiki/List_of_Hacker_Spaces | 11:44 |
| ybit | ah, yes | 11:44 |
| kanzure | eleitl: i think chaos computer clubken in your area is one of them | 11:44 |
| eleitl | there's a fab space in munich by ccc I know of | 11:45 |
| transplexity | who's ybit | 11:45 |
| kanzure | eleitl: yep, that's one of them | 11:45 |
| transplexity | Jee, this takes a while to get used to. | 11:45 |
| eleitl | unfortunately, I don't have time to hang out with ccc folks anymore | 11:45 |
| kanzure | transplexity: once you get used to it, we can upgrade you to the server so you don't ever log out when your computer goes off | 11:46 |
| ybit | i saw the mention of afghanistan and knew then | 11:46 |
| genehackerAFK | enzyme design is a bit far off | 11:46 |
| transplexity | nice... small steps, please :-) | 11:46 |
| kanzure | genehackerAFK: have you seen the molecular pharmaceutical design videos on the server? | 11:46 |
| ybit | transplexity: heath matlock, who are you? http://google.com/profiles/heathmatlock http://openwetware.org/wiki/User:Heath_Matlock | 11:47 |
| eleitl | de novo design is difficult. optimizing or changing substrate specifity less so. | 11:47 |
| kanzure | yep | 11:47 |
| kanzure | spot on | 11:47 |
| kanzure | sometimes you can use bioinformatics to help figure out possible starting points | 11:47 |
| kanzure | i'm a big fan of large libraries and selection experiments | 11:47 |
| genehackerAFK | oh rmadams you work with cathal? | 11:48 |
| transplexity | oh, hi heath | 11:49 |
| rmadams | kanzure: I will have to give heeksCAD a try- looks interesting! | 11:49 |
| rmadams | I like the idea of all CSG models. | 11:49 |
| genehackerAFK | have you tested that centrifuge to make sure it's safe and doesn't turn into shrapnel? | 11:49 |
| kanzure | rmadams: good, good :) | 11:49 |
| rmadams | genehackerAFK: Cathal and I are working on parts of a large project | 11:49 |
| kanzure | rmadams: yeah i prefer solid geometry models for skdb's purpose | 11:49 |
| genehackerAFK | you are using meshes rmadams? | 11:50 |
| genehackerAFK | what cad program are you using? | 11:50 |
| kanzure | my guess is sketchup | 11:50 |
| kanzure | which is not cad | 11:50 |
| rmadams | genehackerAFK: i am not testing it until I have a containment vessel. I wouldn't do that even with a commercial centrifuge | 11:50 |
| eleitl | can you render your stuff into a voxel representation easily? | 11:50 |
| kanzure | eleitl: what do you consider to be "voxel"? | 11:50 |
| rmadams | kanzure: blender, actually | 11:50 |
| eleitl | volume element. 3d array of integers. | 11:51 |
| kanzure | rmadams: ok. sorry | 11:51 |
| rmadams | I have yet to find a good, open CAD program | 11:51 |
| genehackerAFK | try using a steel bowl or something | 11:51 |
| kanzure | eleitl: yes | 11:51 |
| rmadams | kanzure: np | 11:51 |
| rmadams | :-) | 11:51 |
| genehackerAFK | why would you want to do voxels? | 11:51 |
| kanzure | rmadams: heekscad is it, or at least where most of the development is happening | 11:51 |
| rmadams | If heeksCAD can stand up and be relatively stable, it looks great | 11:51 |
| eleitl | because if you want to visualize and manipulate billions of units of information in realtime it's the only thing. | 11:51 |
| genehackerAFK | what sort of billions of units of information? | 11:52 |
| kanzure | eleitl: i've been running an skdb visualization tool in the background since yesterday (forgot to close it), here's a screenshot: http://designfiles.org/~bryan/screenshots/2009-12-28-skdb-meh.png | 11:52 |
| eleitl | volumes, surfaces, empty spaces. | 11:52 |
| genehackerAFK | with voxels you fill up the whole voulme | 11:52 |
| rmadams | genehackerAFK: yeah, I have a steel pot that I am going to use. For my part, I have been working on supply electronics and a drive motor, one that is not a dremmel. :-) | 11:52 |
| genehackerAFK | oh nice | 11:53 |
| eleitl | that's nice, kanzure. can you plug this into a rapid prototyper? | 11:53 |
| rmadams | genehackerAFK: I have an alternate rotor design, which is more conventional, micrtofuge-like | 11:53 |
| kanzure | eleitl: yep. it can either spit out individual legos or the entire model all at once (as one chunk of plastic) | 11:53 |
| eleitl | rmadams: how many gees? | 11:53 |
| genehackerAFK | with voxels don't you specify the whole volume? | 11:53 |
| kanzure | genehackerAFK: voxel models are like.. bitmaps in 3D | 11:54 |
| genehackerAFK | isn't that a bit big information wise? | 11:54 |
| kanzure | yes | 11:54 |
| eleitl | computers are fast | 11:54 |
| genehackerAFK | much better to use solid models | 11:54 |
| kanzure | always use solid | 11:54 |
| eleitl | how do you render solid models? | 11:54 |
| kanzure | convert to whatever you need later | 11:54 |
| kanzure | eleitl: opengl | 11:54 |
| rmadams | genehackerAFK: I spent a lot of years using commercial lab equipment, so that is what I am used to- must of my designs are not as radical as Cathals, but are probably more familar to working molecular biologists. | 11:54 |
| kanzure | we've abstracted that under the hood with opencascade | 11:54 |
| eleitl | try rendering a tomography data set with opengl. | 11:54 |
| kanzure | http://opencascade.org/ | 11:55 |
| kanzure | well yeah | 11:55 |
| kanzure | but this isn't a full body scan or something | 11:55 |
| eleitl | opengl is not meant for certain things. | 11:55 |
| kanzure | opengl would have to use textures on a few thousand rectangles, not a big deal | 11:55 |
| kanzure | there's also VTK | 11:55 |
| kanzure | but i think VTK sometimes uses opengl :) | 11:55 |
| eleitl | imagine rendering a billion atoms with OpenGL. | 11:55 |
| kanzure | why would you want to do that anyway | 11:55 |
| eleitl | let's say you want to drag a piece of volume by 3d bitblit. | 11:56 |
| kanzure | i think you can do a billion objects per sec in opengl btw | 11:56 |
| kanzure | i've seen people pulling a few trillion objects/triangles off.. | 11:56 |
| kanzure | but i'm not a graphics card nut, so don't listen to me. bkero might know | 11:56 |
| eleitl | on a vanilla system, in raltime? | 11:56 |
| eleitl | I don't think so. | 11:56 |
| kanzure | hm | 11:56 |
| kanzure | if you wanted to copy and paste a billion atoms, i think you might not want to visualize all billion of them at once. maybe a 1/10th view or something | 11:57 |
| kanzure | i mean this seems like a UI issue, not a graphics issue | 11:57 |
| eleitl | try dragging around a virus capsid in VMD. | 11:57 |
| kanzure | when you're working with numbers that big | 11:57 |
| kanzure | but i think the approach is all wrong if you find that you have to drag that virus object around manually.. | 11:57 |
| eleitl | These are not big datasets. | 11:57 |
| eleitl | A virus is not large if you want to visualize a few cubic microns. | 11:58 |
| kanzure | sure | 11:58 |
| eleitl | my main points is that voxels scale, while everything else doesn't. | 11:58 |
| kanzure | i see. so you would be okay with voxels that aren't 1-to-1 with whatever is being modeled | 11:59 |
| eleitl | sure, just that you can visualize the volume roughly. | 12:00 |
| eleitl | instead of rendering atoms as spheres you can render voxels as occupied by a type or empty. | 12:00 |
| transplexity | Sorry, I forgot to answer, heath: I'm Daniel, and I'm new to DIYbio. | 12:01 |
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| genehackerAFK | so do we need to models atoms yet? | 12:04 |
| eleitl | not yet, but eventually you'll want to | 12:04 |
| kanzure | genehackerAFK: i've been looking at the nanoengineer1 (nanoCAD) source code for a few days | 12:05 |
| eleitl | you can build a system today that can handle both gracefully. | 12:05 |
| kanzure | and have some ideas for integrating it, without requiring everything be made up of atoms | 12:05 |
| kanzure | yep | 12:05 |
| genehackerAFK | can we work with atoms practically? | 12:05 |
| kanzure | AFM tool tips | 12:05 |
| eleitl | chemistry, too | 12:05 |
| genehackerAFK | good point | 12:05 |
| kanzure | chemistry if you don't need to know exact locations i think(?) | 12:05 |
| kanzure | i guess there's some ways to make functionalized surfaces | 12:05 |
| eleitl | you can combine both, of course | 12:05 |
| genehackerAFK | you still need a good way to make the tooltips... | 12:05 |
| eleitl | chemistry allows you to do massively parallel operations in volumes and surfaces | 12:06 |
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| eleitl | machine-phase/proximal probe is purely sequential, or at least nead a large array to parallelize | 12:06 |
| genehacker | anyway it's possible to convert solids to voxel | 12:06 |
| kanzure | he knows :) | 12:07 |
| genehacker | now I wonder what a file format for a matter compiler would look like | 12:08 |
| kanzure | i think that's what we're making. | 12:09 |
| genehacker | since you can't specify the location of all the atoms practically | 12:09 |
| kanzure | you could, but i don't think that's necessary | 12:09 |
| kanzure | you could if you worked at it hard enough i mean | 12:09 |
| genehacker | you might specify block designs and generalized block locations | 12:10 |
| ybit | who has access to http://www.liebertonline.com/doi/abs/10.1089%2F15204550152475590 | 12:10 |
| ybit | "Somatic Cell Cloning without Micromanipulators" | 12:11 |
| genehacker | perhaps taking ques from cell differentiation | 12:11 |
| genehacker | oh I think I have that paper | 12:11 |
| kanzure | eleitl: how far are you from stockholm? | 12:11 |
| genehacker | let me see here | 12:11 |
| eleitl | stockholm? damn far. | 12:13 |
| eleitl | matter compilers, there's internal representation, and how to build things. Both are not necessarily related. | 12:14 |
| kanzure | our idea with skdb is that the internal representation should be how to build things | 12:15 |
| kanzure | so that's what's contained in the data | 12:15 |
| kanzure | http://designfiles.org/packages/lego/metadata.yaml | 12:15 |
| kanzure | at the bottom you see the tool-related dependencies for making a lego | 12:15 |
| kanzure | and in the screw package, there's dependencies for cold rolling or a screw lathe (optional ways of building a screw) | 12:15 |
| ybit | hrm, /me considers creating a resume in html instead of latex | 12:16 |
| kanzure | ybit: are you looking for a job | 12:16 |
| ybit | yes, i am now | 12:16 |
| kanzure | how much do you need | 12:16 |
| ybit | minimum, just enough to subsist | 12:16 |
| kanzure | how much is that | 12:16 |
| ybit | well, and build a reprap | 12:16 |
| genehacker | have you figured out how to work from a cad model to how to make it yet? | 12:16 |
| kanzure | genehacker: what? | 12:17 |
| ybit | kanzure: depends on where i'm located | 12:17 |
| kanzure | ybit: let's say you're down in austin | 12:17 |
| kanzure | how much would you need | 12:17 |
| ybit | if it's here, oh, um.. | 12:17 |
| kanzure | or in alabama | 12:17 |
| ybit | give me one sec.. | 12:17 |
| genehacker | when you design something you don't start out with a lump of metal and use various manufacturing processes to shape that lump of metal into your part | 12:18 |
| ybit | 7-8k here in alabama | 12:18 |
| genehacker | you design the part with the manufacturing processes in mind then figure out how to make it | 12:18 |
| kanzure | ybit: per month? | 12:18 |
| ybit | per year | 12:18 |
| kanzure | genehacker: the way fenn was doing it was that you _do_ select the manufacturing processes | 12:19 |
| kanzure | there's two ways of looking at it | 12:19 |
| kanzure | we can either have the CAM engines figure it out for us in certain cases | 12:19 |
| genehacker | I know, but people don't do that | 12:19 |
| kanzure | or, use fenn's idea where we automatically generate possible designs that match the look and feel of whatever the user supplied | 12:19 |
| kanzure | for instance use a boring operation and see if it matches the parametric bore that was requested | 12:19 |
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| genehacker | so have you figured out how to do that | 12:19 |
| kanzure | then at the end of all of this you assemble the sequence of manufacturing operations that made the final object that was "pretty damn close" | 12:20 |
| kanzure | yes we know "how" to do it | 12:20 |
| kanzure | but the problem is that i don't have any machine tools, and fenn doesn't have as much process representation data as he'd like | 12:20 |
| genehacker | on something like a bore you could make it exactly | 12:20 |
| kanzure | you're thinking about CAM stuff | 12:20 |
| genehacker | what do you need as far as process representation data is concerned? | 12:21 |
| kanzure | ask fenn. last he was working on that front was a way to talk about geometric constraints of, say, a bandsaw during a cutting operation (can't do a 90 degree turn in 1 sec) | 12:21 |
| kanzure | emc i think has a CAM planner, but i don't remember. another question to field for fenn. | 12:22 |
| genehacker | why are you considering time taken to cut a 90 degree turn? | 12:23 |
| kanzure | the consideration is, more importantly, that a bandsaw can't _do_ that | 12:23 |
| genehacker | isn't it more important that the machine is capable of doing such an operation? | 12:23 |
| genehacker | oh | 12:23 |
| kanzure | if you know what each tool is capable of doing, you just permutate the possible sequence of actions on a chunk of metal | 12:23 |
| genehacker | oops | 12:23 |
| ybit | by my estimations, i only need to work ~21 hours/wk if i'm payed 7.25/hr. anyway, my bro knows the owners of http://snowmasters.com/ and it looks like i'm about to be working for them doing webdev | 12:23 |
| kanzure | until you get something that looks like what the user wanted to have made | 12:23 |
| genehacker | what about molding processes where you're not working on a chunk of metal but an amount of metal determined by the volume of the mold | 12:24 |
| kanzure | i haven't thought about this in a while and i think it's a non-issue | 12:25 |
| genehacker | you don't start out with a lump of metal designing a part | 12:25 |
| kanzure | i don't think you're listening to me | 12:26 |
| kanzure | you usually don't. so i'm going to stop talking now. :) | 12:26 |
| genehacker | ok | 12:26 |
| transplexity | out for 90 mins outdoors walking activity | 12:28 |
| genehacker | is the chunk of metal of predetermined volume and shape | 12:28 |
| kanzure | no but you could look at the max dimensions of the part and figure out what chunk of metal to start with | 12:29 |
| kanzure | this was the algorithmic way that i was explaining | 12:29 |
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| genehacker | ok then I understand your idea | 12:29 |
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| kanzure | hello thesnark | 12:37 |
| thesnark | hello kanzure | 12:37 |
| kanzure | fenn: ybit wants to know if he can take your room | 12:41 |
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| kanzure | hello jerry | 12:43 |
| jrutherford | Greetings. | 12:43 |
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| jrutherford | This is the hacker space group correct? | 12:45 |
| kanzure | martin is currently offline but genehacker, ybit, fenn, and a few others are in on the austin hackerspace project for sure | 12:46 |
| jrutherford | Okay kool. I am just getting started in this area... moved from St Louis to Austin... now just became president of the Austin Robot Group... so my world domination plan is working well. | 12:47 |
| genehacker | any progress on the hackerspace kanzure? | 12:47 |
| kanzure | :) ours too | 12:47 |
| kanzure | genehacker: we're meeting on the 2nd, that's why i was asking when you're back in austin | 12:47 |
| genehacker | I won't be able to make it unfortunately | 12:48 |
| rmadams | kanzure: is there a OSX binary port of heeksCAD? | 12:50 |
| jrutherford | Okay... so 10:00 On Saturday, Jan 2 at 209 Ben White Blvd - Suite 106 - Correct? (This Saturday) | 12:50 |
| kanzure | yep | 12:51 |
| rmadams | kanzure: thanks! | 12:51 |
| kanzure | we're still waiting for confirmation from the guy with the key (les filip) | 12:51 |
| kanzure | rmadams: hm? | 12:51 |
| jrutherford | I have nothing else scheduled... so count me in. 10:00 until when... all day? A couple hours? Midnight? | 12:51 |
| genehacker | what will you guys be discussing? | 12:51 |
| kanzure | jrutherford: there's no scheduled end, but at some point i'd like to do lunch | 12:51 |
| rmadams | kanzure: thought that "yep" was for me, re. OSX binary port of heeksCAD | 12:52 |
| kanzure | rmadams: oh sorry. uhm. i don't know. :) | 12:52 |
| genehacker | hnmmm... you know I might be able to be virtually present | 12:52 |
| kanzure | genehacker: there's no internet connection | 12:52 |
| * thesnark suggests speakerphone | 12:52 | |
| kanzure | genehacker: some of us are building some walls apparently? i don't know who. i don't really want to | 12:52 |
| kanzure | thesnark: bah, you and your solution-oriented mind! | 12:53 |
| thesnark | haha | 12:53 |
| genehacker | no internet? | 12:53 |
| jrutherford | kanzure: Sounds like a plan. Likely good places in the area for that. Did you also want to discuss building the laser cut robot arm? | 12:53 |
| kanzure | wifi is being purchased soon | 12:53 |
| genehacker | oh at the space | 12:53 |
| kanzure | jrutherford: yess i do | 12:53 |
| genehacker | you guys have a lasercutter now? | 12:53 |
| kanzure | i'm also going to try to convince you to not do that project quite yet ;-) | 12:54 |
| jrutherford | Ok. I'll finish work here in a few hours if you want to get together today. Actually... pretty much all week after work... except Thursday... robot meeting. | 12:54 |
| kanzure | well i'm basically 0.5mi away from the address you just listed | 12:54 |
| jrutherford | 35W Epilog, 24x12 table. | 12:54 |
| jrutherford | grin | 12:54 |
| genehacker | what sort of robot arm? something like bre made? | 12:54 |
| genehacker | nice | 12:55 |
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| kanzure | genehacker: oomlout's arm | 12:55 |
| kanzure | jrutherford: where is that epilog laser cutter? | 12:55 |
| genehacker | not familiar with it, link? | 12:55 |
| kanzure | http://oomlout.com/ somewhere | 12:55 |
| jrutherford | Trying to get members of the robot group interested in building some projects... get activity levels up. | 12:55 |
| genehacker | oh that one | 12:55 |
| genehacker | what do we want to do with it? | 12:55 |
| kanzure | jrutherford: how's that going? last big project they did was a few years back i recall? | 12:56 |
| jrutherford | Here at the house... in Kyle. | 12:56 |
| kanzure | great | 12:56 |
| kanzure | are you on the east side of the highway? | 12:56 |
| genehacker | why not make something to automate the lasercutter instead? | 12:56 |
| jrutherford | they voted me in at the Christmas dinner... this thursday will be the first meeting where the rest of the group will learn that ... I want to hit the ground running. | 12:56 |
| kanzure | genehacker: the laser cutter is already automatic. it runs off of a typical windows printer driver | 12:57 |
| genehacker | I know | 12:57 |
| kanzure | jrutherford: i don't mean to be pessimistic but from my attempts to prod the group, i don't think they will be interested | 12:57 |
| kanzure | jrutherford: but if they are, that's great | 12:57 |
| genehacker | why not automate the insertion of plastic and removal of cut plastic so it can run all night | 12:57 |
| jrutherford | http://rutherford-robotics.com/laser.html | 12:57 |
| thesnark | kanzure since my time is limited but I would like to help when I can, if you can create a list of software problems or even just simple IT tasks you need solved it would make it easier for myself and whoever else to work on | 12:58 |
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| kanzure | thesnark: okay | 12:58 |
| biohackernoob | hey kanzure | 12:58 |
| kanzure | hi biohackernoob | 12:58 |
| jrutherford | I was president of the Missouri Robotics group... they went from 8 core members to 50. They only meet once a month... but the forum has been active: http://robomo.com | 12:58 |
| jrutherford | http://robomo.com/Forum | 12:58 |
| kanzure | thesnark: please please bug me to the end of the earth until i give you that list | 12:58 |
| biohackernoob | you know how we were talking about injecting DNA into plant cells? well, i was thinking of something like this: http://4e.plantphys.net/image.php?id=42 | 12:59 |
| thesnark | kanzure I can do that :) | 12:59 |
| biohackernoob | its smaller than a needle, and bigger than that probe machine | 12:59 |
| genehacker | you could use a gene gun to shoot dna coated particles in | 12:59 |
| biohackernoob | but i dont have a gene gun :P | 12:59 |
| genehacker | there's a diy one somewhere | 12:59 |
| kanzure | jrutherford: my mom lives on the opposite side of the highway of you. | 13:00 |
| jrutherford | I'm going to drop off for now... get back to work. If you want to talk about a project or whatever... email me jerryarutherford@gmail.com or give me a call after 5:00 512-262-7899 | 13:00 |
| jrutherford | see ya. | 13:00 |
| kanzure | jrutherford: okay, thanks :) | 13:00 |
| kanzure | cya | 13:00 |
| biohackernoob | why cant i just inject it with something like the picture? | 13:00 |
| biohackernoob | how is that any different than a gene gun? | 13:00 |
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| kanzure | a gene gun is sometimes, quite literally, a shotgun | 13:00 |
| genehacker | because you are doing one cell at a time | 13:00 |
| genehacker | it is a shot gun | 13:00 |
| genehacker | for the most part | 13:01 |
| biohackernoob | so injecting is no different than a gene gun correct? | 13:01 |
| genehacker | yeah but inject looks like its a slow process | 13:01 |
| rmadams | Using a gene cun for instroducing non-native DNA is actually quite tricky | 13:01 |
| kanzure | easier than building an AFM probe tip to decorate the tip with a plasmid ;-) | 13:02 |
| biohackernoob | well i'd rather handle the stuff myself instead of building a gene gun | 13:02 |
| rmadams | we did it using CaP-precipaitated DNA, and that worked okay, | 13:02 |
| rmadams | but we had expression problems until we pretty substantially modified the upstream non-coding regions | 13:02 |
| biohackernoob | im thinking injecting would be by far the easiest method | 13:02 |
| rmadams | We wrote a paper detail that method, although it was a while ago, but it did work- you could show beta-gal activity from expressed enzyme | 13:03 |
| biohackernoob | i currently have the materials to make a non-hollow 10 micron barb | 13:03 |
| biohackernoob | now all i need is to figure out where to buy plasmids? | 13:03 |
| kanzure | rmadams: i eat papers for breakfast, lunch and dinner. you have a pdf or link? | 13:04 |
| rmadams | YEp- I was looking for a PDF. | 13:04 |
| rmadams | I can give you a medline link- do you have access to full-text journals from there? | 13:04 |
| kanzure | yep | 13:04 |
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| biohackernoob | so where do you guys buy plasmids? ive searched for hours on the internet and i can't find anything :/ | 13:08 |
| ybit | btw, commenting out glx and dri fixed the segfault, kanzure | 13:08 |
| kanzure | biohackernoob: i think most people have a company synthesize the plasmid for them | 13:09 |
| kanzure | for instance: http://www.natx.com/PlasmidDNAManufacturing.html | 13:09 |
| biohackernoob | thats expensive though isnt it? :( | 13:10 |
| kanzure | dunno never ordered from them | 13:10 |
| kanzure | depends on how big your plasmid has to be | 13:10 |
| kanzure | go find someone in a lab that has a standard plasmid for ecoli and have them PCR up some copies for you | 13:11 |
| kanzure | but that's for ecoli obviously | 13:11 |
| rmadams | kanzure: Here is one, although I think it is retrovirally-mediated. Looking for our gene-gun papers now. Somatic gene therapy targeted to the thyroid, javascript:AL_get(this,%20'jour',%20'Transplant%20Proc.'); 1992 Dec;24(6):2973-4. | 13:11 |
| kanzure | hah | 13:11 |
| kanzure | javascript sucks :( | 13:11 |
| kanzure | but at least i have the title and date now, thanks | 13:11 |
| kanzure | you know, it's weird. i recently read about gene therapy and thyroids, but in a different context | 13:11 |
| biohackernoob | well im looking for a particular plasmid, 2 infact: pHK724 and pHK555 | 13:12 |
| biohackernoob | it appears that natx only makes copies of your plasmid.... :/ | 13:14 |
| biohackernoob | i need a place where i can order the plasmids i need is small quantities | 13:14 |
| biohackernoob | i dont need much at all | 13:14 |
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| kanzure | hey Martyn | 13:16 |
| kanzure | biohackernoob is wondering where he can order plasmids on the webs | 13:16 |
| Martyn | Hey, what's shakin? | 13:16 |
| Martyn | He's not likely going to be able to mail order them | 13:16 |
| kanzure | right | 13:16 |
| biohackernoob | whys that? | 13:17 |
| * Martyn *sighs* | 13:17 | |
| kanzure | most are set up to serve academic customers | 13:17 |
| Martyn | because bioengineering is not yet a "do it in your garage" style activity | 13:17 |
| biohackernoob | well im at UCLA... im sure i could figure out how to send it there | 13:17 |
| Martyn | That's not the point | 13:17 |
| rmadams | You know- one easy way to get gene transfer into skin fibroblasts is to use a needle-less injector, (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jet_injector) A postdoc in my lab did some experiments using this technique on mice, and it worked well enough that you could get a visible beta-gal blue coloration on the skin of nude mice via expression of the injected DNA. | 13:17 |
| Martyn | They will want to know what project you're associated with | 13:18 |
| biohackernoob | o really? :/ | 13:18 |
| eleitl | you would surprise what you can do in your garage | 13:18 |
| Martyn | Me? No | 13:18 |
| eleitl | be surprised even | 13:18 |
| kanzure | eleitl: be careful, Martyn is like you except more stubborn | 13:18 |
| eleitl | more stubborn? impossible... | 13:19 |
| biohackernoob | well one thing i cant do in my garage is obtain lux plasmids :( | 13:19 |
| Martyn | I have a friend with a frickin fusor in his garage :) this is not typical. | 13:19 |
| biohackernoob | cool | 13:19 |
| eleitl | I have a friend with an UHV pump stand in his living room | 13:19 |
| eleitl | laminating an optical bench right now | 13:19 |
| Martyn | Heh. | 13:19 |
| eleitl | 4 m optical bench in his living room | 13:19 |
| biohackernoob | so all these DIY biohackers... where do they get the plasmids/DNA they need if they cant order it? | 13:20 |
| Martyn | My father and I had a flourine-xenon laser in our garage for four years. I think it's the funniest thing. | 13:20 |
| kanzure | biohackernoob: they order DNA from gene synthesis companies | 13:20 |
| Martyn | biohackernoob : They can. | 13:20 |
| eleitl | biohackernoob: some assembly required | 13:20 |
| biohackernoob | so when ppl say they do this stuff for under $400 they're bsing? | 13:20 |
| eleitl | probably, yes. | 13:20 |
| Martyn | biohackernoob : They have banded together to form projects, and as Bryan just noted, they order from established bio companies and work together to lower costs by batch ordering. | 13:21 |
| ybit | aha, transplexity was daniel hoffman | 13:21 |
| kanzure | $400 will get you maybe a 200 bp sequence ordered | 13:21 |
| Martyn | The /overall/ cost might be in the $1-4K range, but individually the cost is lowered | 13:21 |
| biohackernoob | hm.. well if i were to order from a gene synthesis company, how would i get the sequence i need? | 13:21 |
| kanzure | you can't do much interesting with 200bp | 13:21 |
| * ybit just got around to catching up on email | 13:21 | |
| kanzure | they will ship it to you in the mail | 13:21 |
| biohackernoob | all i have is a plasmid ID: pHK724, pHK555 | 13:21 |
| kanzure | http://mrgene.com/ | 13:21 |
| kanzure | i think Martyn's cost estimate is pretty close to spot on :) | 13:22 |
| biohackernoob | wait $400 for only 200 bp? O.O | 13:22 |
| kanzure | er | 13:22 |
| kanzure | $200 for 400 bp | 13:22 |
| ybit | Martyn: why don't you use screen btw? you've been around linux long enough to know better | 13:22 |
| kanzure | the price is actually about $0.39/bp these days | 13:22 |
| Martyn | ybit : Non sequiter? | 13:23 |
| biohackernoob | thats still insanely expensive... how many copies do u get? | 13:23 |
| Martyn | (sp?) | 13:23 |
| eleitl | non sequitur | 13:23 |
| kanzure | biohackernoob: it doesn't matter. you just PCR it yourself and copy it on your own | 13:23 |
| kanzure | at least a few nanograms | 13:23 |
| biohackernoob | but i dont have that kind of equipment :/ | 13:23 |
| kanzure | a thermocycler? | 13:23 |
| biohackernoob | thats just more money to spend :( | 13:24 |
| Martyn | DUH | 13:24 |
| rmadams | biohackernoob: themocycler is easy- enzyme is a little more complicated | 13:24 |
| Martyn | biohackernoob : I know you like this idea of "the simplest possible experiement" but there really is some basic equipment you /must/ have to do biosynth | 13:24 |
| kanzure | thermocycler is a good first project | 13:24 |
| rmadams | biohackernoob: you can make do with three waterbaths, a stopwatch and patience | 13:24 |
| kanzure | and you can confirm with fun dyes that give you cancer :) | 13:24 |
| eleitl | you can probably buy PCR machines on eBay more cheaply | 13:25 |
| biohackernoob | rmadams: really? | 13:25 |
| rmadams | You will need to get some thermostable polymerase, though | 13:25 |
| Martyn | and you can build a good PCR cycler with a microcontroller, some nichrome wire, and a power supply ( well, it's a bit more complex .. but not ridiculously so ) | 13:25 |
| biohackernoob | how do u copy DNA with just a waterbath? | 13:25 |
| eleitl | ethidium bromide is not that dangerous | 13:25 |
| rmadams | biohacker: sure- that is how we used to do PCR before thermocyclers became commercially available | 13:25 |
| Martyn | rmadams : GAH! I'd hate to have to do it all by hand that way .. soooo slow. | 13:25 |
| Martyn | I agree that you could probably buy a thermocycler inexpensively on labx.com | 13:26 |
| rmadams | three temperature-controlled waterbaths are the easy part. You will also need some thermostable polymerase, like TAQ, and the right salt buffer | 13:26 |
| Martyn | rmadams : Yep, and a nice sterile environment | 13:26 |
| rmadams | Martyn: oh, it _is_. It _is_! | 13:26 |
| kanzure | how do you do sterility with the waterbath method anyway? | 13:27 |
| rmadams | I used to do it while I was reading. I read through Proust. :-P | 13:27 |
| Martyn | kanzure : the sample remains in a sealed tube, that you transfer between the baths | 13:27 |
| rmadams | kanzure: as long as the tubes are prepared in a clean (sterile not needed- you just need to be away from where contaminating DNA might be present) you are okay. | 13:28 |
| Martyn | The thing I hated waaaay back when was having to make all the micropipettes for my dad | 13:28 |
| rmadams | Martyn is right. | 13:28 |
| Martyn | Taking a pipette, streeeeeeeetching it over a flame, then autoclaving the hell out of 'em | 13:28 |
| rmadams | Use a little oil to over the reactant, too, to meek the material from vaporizing and chaing the concentration of buffer salts in the little tubes | 13:28 |
| rmadams | Martyn: yep. Hated that, too. | 13:29 |
| Martyn | I still have little pieces of glass in my left thumb. They will never come out | 13:29 |
| rmadams | I guess that is why I eventually gave up on the genetic engineering and went into computational biology | 13:29 |
| Martyn | almost as thin as the fibers in insulation | 13:29 |
| rmadams | PhD in molecular biology got P3/4 retrovirus work. In computer science got nice quiet desk job! :-) | 13:30 |
| Martyn | Well, they are BOTH quiet desk jobs | 13:32 |
| Martyn | just one involves a little more lab work than the other | 13:33 |
| kanzure | my ultracentrifuges are always noisy bastards | 13:33 |
| Martyn | that's why you get perkin-elmer ones | 13:33 |
| Martyn | I have a bad childhood memory of one of those centrifuges though .. I was in the back of the lab playing with the fish, when the rotor cracked apart while spinning at around 100k | 13:35 |
| Martyn | To say it exploded would be an understatement | 13:35 |
| Martyn | Hmm .. no, I think it was a Beckmann | 13:36 |
| Martyn | not a perkin | 13:36 |
| biohackernoob | http://www.synthesis.cc/2009/10/the-lava-amp-is-alive.html what about this? | 13:37 |
| kanzure | lame | 13:37 |
| biohackernoob | ? | 13:37 |
| kanzure | they paid someone $100k to make a prototype that should have cost only $100 | 13:37 |
| kanzure | they bought "IP" for it | 13:38 |
| kanzure | it's a simple thermocycler.. jeebus. | 13:38 |
| biohackernoob | ya, and it hits the market soon doesnt it? | 13:38 |
| biohackernoob | i can just wait for that right? | 13:38 |
| kanzure | just get a used thermocycler off of labx | 13:39 |
| biohackernoob | but the prices on those were like $3000 + O.o | 13:39 |
| kanzure | used? | 13:39 |
| kanzure | you might as well build your own | 13:39 |
| biohackernoob | lol found a thing how to build a $10 thermocycler! | 13:40 |
| Martyn | kanzure : Temperature stability is -very- important to yield and accurate replication | 13:41 |
| Martyn | kanzure : I really don't like when you shrug off people's hard work ... | 13:42 |
| Martyn | kanzure : It's not an endearing trait. | 13:42 |
| kanzure | what are you talking about now? | 13:42 |
| kanzure | the lava-amp? | 13:42 |
| Martyn | kanzure : The LavaAmp thermocycler | 13:42 |
| Martyn | it's really quite ingenious. | 13:42 |
| kanzure | joseph and guido weren't the ones who came up with it | 13:43 |
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| kanzure | it doesn't take $100k to build a prototype of that, sorry | 13:43 |
| kanzure | did you read the paper? | 13:43 |
| Martyn | I did, and the original used more power than a USB connection could carry | 13:44 |
| Martyn | the one they created uses about 2W, and the heaters they chose are very clever | 13:45 |
| Martyn | It's a good system, and once brought into high-volume production these things will be cheap .. | 13:45 |
| kanzure | they didn't create squat, they just paid some guy named "carlson" or something a ridiculous amount of money to do what fenn offered to do for less than $1k | 13:45 |
| biohackernoob | well guys... since the only way to obtain plasmids atm is gene sequencers.. what if i waited a few years? do u think some service might start by then that is geared towards diy biohacking? | 13:45 |
| kanzure | biohackernoob: waiting around forever isn't very DIY of you :) | 13:46 |
| Martyn | "Some guy" being Rob Carlson .. yeah | 13:49 |
| biohackernoob | well the way im thinking is: i have other hobbies i can do now, and i can just wait for biohacking to get some more momentum | 13:49 |
| biohackernoob | then it will be easier to enter the hobby | 13:49 |
| kanzure | Martyn: i'm sorry i forgot to kiss his ass | 13:49 |
| biohackernoob | you think thats a good idea? (for me :P) | 13:51 |
| kanzure | no, i think you need to challenge yourself | 13:51 |
| biohackernoob | well the issue is money, not the challenge :/ | 13:52 |
| kanzure | you can't make a $10 thermocycler? | 13:52 |
| biohackernoob | no, i cant make the plasmids i need | 13:52 |
| kanzure | maybe that's a more long-term project | 13:52 |
| kanzure | and in the mean time you should get the basics down | 13:52 |
| biohackernoob | eh | 13:53 |
| biohackernoob | but even if i made a thermocycler... i have no DNA to replicate and test with | 13:53 |
| kanzure | you can extract DNA from strawberries pretty easily | 13:53 |
| biohackernoob | but how would i know that im replicating it properly and such? | 13:54 |
| kanzure | you can also buy a cheap kit that gives you Taq and some purified nucleotides | 13:54 |
| kanzure | you run it through something known as a gel | 13:54 |
| kanzure | this is a good first step project | 13:54 |
| Martyn | heck, you can extract the DNA from chicken liver trivially | 13:54 |
| kanzure | in the end what you hope to see is (stained) DNA running down the gel being pulled by an electric current | 13:55 |
| Martyn | Yep | 13:55 |
| kanzure | so i would do it in this order: gel, thermocycler, world domination | 13:55 |
| biohackernoob | ya, but you cant really DO anything with that..... | 13:55 |
| Martyn | *groans* | 13:55 |
| Martyn | biohackernoob : You can LEARN with that | 13:55 |
| biohackernoob | except learn what your doing... | 13:55 |
| Martyn | and that's what you need to do first | 13:55 |
| biohackernoob | bleh i hate that step :P | 13:55 |
| Martyn | tough | 13:55 |
| kanzure | well | 13:55 |
| kanzure | you could order some special primers i guess | 13:55 |
| kanzure | and detect whether or not certain sequences are present in DNA | 13:55 |
| kanzure | and then test different samples, like your family's or something | 13:56 |
| kanzure | Martyn: surely there's something more exciting we can give him to do with an electrophoresis setup | 13:56 |
| Martyn | Yep, don't get killed by the electrophoresis power supply | 14:02 |
| Martyn | or die a horrible poisoning death due to the polyacrylamide gel (neurotoxin) | 14:02 |
| bkero | kanzure: I might know what? | 14:07 |
| kanzure | whether or not current gfx cards can push billions or trillions of triangles | 14:08 |
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| kanzure | temple grandin in austin on 2010-02-05 | 15:36 |
| kanzure | uh well this is unexpected | 15:50 |
| kanzure | someone gave me login credentials to a server | 15:50 |
| kanzure | but it seems to be running a weird operating system | 15:50 |
| kanzure | it doesn't respond to ssh, ping, http | 15:50 |
| kanzure | i think it might be windows, but i can't remote desktop into it | 15:50 |
| kanzure | any hints? | 15:50 |
| JayDugger | Ouch! stop sending packets to my brain! | 15:50 |
| JayDugger | Seriously, have you asked the donor? | 15:51 |
| kanzure | i'm somewhat embarrassed that i assumed it would be a sane environment :( | 15:51 |
| kanzure | maybe it's an sql-only server | 15:51 |
| JayDugger | Yeah, well...crow tastes bad regardless of whether you eat a little or a lot. | 15:52 |
| ybit | who here has read diamond age? please say it gets better | 15:52 |
| JayDugger | Ah...ending's a little weak. | 15:52 |
| JayDugger | I think you get served best by asking the donor for aid, kanzure. | 15:52 |
| QuantumG | ybit: the writing is terrible throughout | 15:54 |
| ybit | and so is the narration | 15:54 |
| ybit | i have the audio books, i'll post them to the server in a bit | 15:54 |
| QuantumG | heh | 15:54 |
| ybit | the only thing that got me through it was speeding it up and playing 8bit music in the background | 15:54 |
| kanzure | so any hints? rdesktop, ssh, ftp. none of these are working | 15:54 |
| JayDugger | Stephenson's an idea man. If you want good prose, try the classics. | 15:55 |
| JayDugger | Telnet? | 15:55 |
| kanzure | katsmeow-afk: how do you usually remotely access a windows server? | 15:55 |
| kanzure | telnet for what port? | 15:55 |
| eleitl | RDP | 15:55 |
| kanzure | remote desktop protocol? | 15:55 |
| eleitl | Win 2008 does have ssh and/or ftp, IIRC. | 15:55 |
| kanzure | it's 2003 | 15:55 |
| ybit | windows server 2003 | 15:55 |
| eleitl | RDP is your best bet then. | 15:55 |
| ybit | hrm | 15:55 |
| QuantumG | JayDugger: it's a shame he doesn't just write down his ideas instead of writing tomes that poorly pass them on | 15:55 |
| JayDugger | Gosh, I haven't any suggestions other than the default. | 15:55 |
| ybit | ftp? | 15:55 |
| kanzure | i thought "rdesktop" implements RDP | 15:55 |
| eleitl | what does nmap say, kanzure? | 15:56 |
| * kanzure looks | 15:56 | |
| kanzure | it will take a while | 15:56 |
| kanzure | it's also taking unusually long to respond to my pings | 15:56 |
| * ybit gives up on diamond age | 15:56 | |
| ybit | it is bad to not care for fiction? | 15:56 |
| eleitl | it's just a book, ybit. | 15:56 |
| QuantumG | I've probably read all the Stephenson available | 15:56 |
| * ybit prefers non-fiction | 15:56 | |
| JayDugger | If you want good writing, try Ballard or W.J.Williams. | 15:57 |
| ybit | i.e. scholarly papers | 15:57 |
| QuantumG | glutton for punishment I guess :) | 15:57 |
| eleitl | Ballard is great. | 15:57 |
| QuantumG | ybit: read Peter F. Hamilton. | 15:57 |
| JayDugger | Williams recycles the same protagonist, so take warning. | 15:57 |
| kanzure | huh can't access google either | 15:57 |
| QuantumG | start with Pandora's Star | 15:57 |
| kanzure | i did hamilton's "mind star rising" | 15:58 |
| ybit | think i'll stick to tts audio of papers | 15:58 |
| QuantumG | or Stephen Baxter, start with Manifold Time | 15:58 |
| JayDugger | Do you have a good system for tts? | 15:58 |
| kanzure | festival | 15:58 |
| ybit | yes | 15:58 |
| ybit | ^ | 15:58 |
| JayDugger | Got it. | 15:59 |
| JayDugger | Thank you both. | 15:59 |
| eleitl | good night. | 15:59 |
| ybit | i have kinetic self replicating machines and some mol. bio book i'll put on the server tonight | 15:59 |
| JayDugger | Good night, eleitl. | 15:59 |
| ybit | gn | 15:59 |
| eleitl | n8t, JayDugger. | 15:59 |
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| kanzure | hah | 16:00 |
| kanzure | one out, another in | 16:00 |
| kanzure | very well. | 16:00 |
| technologiclee3 | ybit: i read Age - the end is a lot weak -and at that level of tech things would not work like that throught the story - good story tho | 16:01 |
| JayDugger | kanzure, What do you learn from nmap's haruspicy? | 16:01 |
| technologiclee3 | Chritons - Prey came closer to the mark | 16:02 |
| QuantumG | when is any of the Kurzweil movies coming out? | 16:02 |
| kanzure | why can't i ping 206.220.200.200 | 16:02 |
| kanzure | JayDugger: i forgot what arguments to pass nmap | 16:02 |
| kanzure | QuantumG: they're scheduled to debut the night before the singularity | 16:02 |
| kanzure | *to pass to nmap | 16:03 |
| JayDugger | Kanzure: I rarely use nmap myself, and so have no better advice than RTFM, or use the GUI. | 16:03 |
| QuantumG | "Transcendent Man" and "The Singularity is Near: A True Story About the Future" | 16:03 |
| kanzure | there's a gui to nmap? haha | 16:03 |
| kanzure | QuantumG: yeah i have a friend or two featured in those :) | 16:03 |
| kanzure | well not "featured" | 16:03 |
| kanzure | one of those is about ray himself right? | 16:03 |
| QuantumG | first one, yeah | 16:04 |
| QuantumG | I heard an interview where someone asked when it was coming out | 16:04 |
| QuantumG | and he said "oh, it screened at the film festival...." | 16:04 |
| QuantumG | facepalm | 16:04 |
| kanzure | something weird is going on with my connection | 16:05 |
| kanzure | Invalid MIT-MAGIC-COOKIE-1 keyERROR: Failed to open display: localhost:11.0 | 16:05 |
| QuantumG | if I ever interview someone I'm going to inform them of the "weasel button" | 16:05 |
| JayDugger | That's strange... | 16:06 |
| JayDugger | Sounds X-related. | 16:06 |
| QuantumG | "I will push this button if you are giving me a weasel answer" | 16:06 |
| kanzure | grumble grumble | 16:06 |
| JayDugger | Why does a W2003 box think your box an X-client. | 16:07 |
| kanzure | i'm sshing into another server and then running rdesktop | 16:07 |
| kanzure | so i'm doing ssh -X of course | 16:07 |
| QuantumG | hmm, maybe its trying to use an X feature you don't have | 16:08 |
| kanzure | oh | 16:09 |
| kanzure | there is no remote desktop service installed | 16:09 |
| kanzure | it's just ftp and an sql server | 16:09 |
| kanzure | lovely. | 16:09 |
| JayDugger | Nicely explains the problem, though. | 16:09 |
| kanzure | well, does anyone have a good linux-compatible client to what's probably a microsoft sql server? | 16:10 |
| kanzure | ybit: i recall you were doing some bullshit work with that once? | 16:10 |
| kanzure | sqsh? | 16:10 |
| ybit | i logged on using windows remote desktop | 16:10 |
| ybit | that's how the company had it setup | 16:11 |
| ybit | you shouldn't have to use a windows virtual desktop | 16:12 |
| QuantumG | kanzure: so, err, has the revolution started yet? | 16:13 |
| ybit | ? | 16:13 |
| kanzure | working on it | 16:13 |
| ybit | QuantumG: of course it has! nominate ron paul! ;) | 16:13 |
| QuantumG | kk, let me know | 16:13 |
| kanzure | but just for the record | 16:13 |
| kanzure | which revolution? | 16:14 |
| QuantumG | super-empowered-individual revolution, thanks | 16:14 |
| JayDugger | Bit of a moving target, that. | 16:15 |
| ybit | that started many centuries ago, it's on an exponential curve which is why it's hard to see | 16:15 |
| technologiclee3 | QuantumG: Yes this is the part where they organize | 16:15 |
| QuantumG | ybit: thanks ray | 16:15 |
| ybit | :) | 16:15 |
| ybit | it's h+, i can't go a day without mentionging exp. curves | 16:15 |
| QuantumG | ohhhh | 16:15 |
| QuantumG | I had a thought the other day which you'll enjoy | 16:16 |
| ybit | go on | 16:16 |
| QuantumG | how many proteins is egg white? | 16:16 |
| QuantumG | mostly just one right? | 16:16 |
| JayDugger | Curves are everywhere...http://flic.kr/p/7qq4hF | 16:16 |
| kanzure | well sqsh doesn't seem to work | 16:16 |
| kanzure | um | 16:16 |
| kanzure | i wasn't expecting windows to be this dysfunctional and inaccessible | 16:17 |
| ybit | QuantumG: http://www.nutritiondata.com/foods-egg%20whites000000000000000000000.html | 16:17 |
| ybit | it seems the answer depends on the type of egg white | 16:17 |
| technologiclee3 | there is a festival plugin for pidgen - i think i turned it all on - have not heard anything yet | 16:17 |
| technologiclee3 | kanzure: have you not learned yet ? ; ) | 16:18 |
| QuantumG | Egg white contains approximately 40 different proteins. | 16:19 |
| ybit | that i did not know | 16:19 |
| ybit | so what's the point? | 16:19 |
| QuantumG | well, like all good ideas, it fails as soon as I start the research :) | 16:19 |
| technologiclee3 | it shows 1.5 grams per serving of whole egg ? | 16:20 |
| technologiclee3 | of ash | 16:20 |
| QuantumG | anyway, I was thinking that synthesizing the dna, adding ribosomes and making the protein all in the test tube might be possible | 16:20 |
| QuantumG | At 62-65°C, the most heat sensitive protein in egg white, ovotransferrin, constituting 12% of the egg white, starts its denaturation and the egg white starts setting. At 80°C, the main protein ovalbumin (54% of the egg white) denatures. The denaturation and rearrangement at 80°C has caused the egg white to be firm. | 16:22 |
| ybit | well gentlemen and ladies, i must retrieve a few parts from the junk pile and meet up with my long-time friend: http://cs-people.bu.edu/house/ ...and then other stuff that i don't want to mention because i would prefer not to subconciously influence myself otherwise | 16:22 |
| technologiclee3 | oohh i clicked - wirelessly uploaded by Eye -Fi and they are advertising a wireless enables SD card http://www.eye.fi/ | 16:23 |
| QuantumG | see, that kind of description makes me wonder if one can experiment with protein construction to create a mixture that when heated creates an edible food mass | 16:24 |
| kanzure | QuantumG: yes that's called "in vivo protein synthesis", it's actually a "common" lab technique | 16:24 |
| kanzure | dunno about edibility | 16:24 |
| kanzure | er or do i mean in vitro | 16:25 |
| kanzure | in vitro :) | 16:25 |
| QuantumG | yes | 16:25 |
| QuantumG | its the edible part that I find interesting | 16:25 |
| QuantumG | I mean, one can drink amino acids... but its not very nice | 16:25 |
| QuantumG | http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/protein/NP_990483.1?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Sequence.Sequence_ResultsPanel.Sequence_RVDocSum | 16:34 |
| QuantumG | is the big one | 16:34 |
| QuantumG | presumably frying it will result in something like an egg white | 16:35 |
| JayDugger | QuantumG, why not just buy eggs? | 16:35 |
| QuantumG | might need some of this too: | 16:35 |
| QuantumG | http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/protein/CAA26040.1?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Sequence.Sequence_ResultsPanel.Sequence_RVDocSum | 16:35 |
| QuantumG | 1. some vego freaks won't eat them 2. there's a whole lot of crap in egg whites that some people don't like 3. I find the idea of food made from scratch interesting | 16:37 |
| JayDugger | I'll pick 3. :) | 16:37 |
| QuantumG | being able to bootstrap the amino acids from methane and a spark gap would be awesome | 16:38 |
| -!- biohackernoob [i=4404d867@gateway/web/freenode/x-tladruzqesolflwf] has quit ["Page closed"] | 16:42 | |
| QuantumG | so I'm imagining a machine that takes co2 and hydrogen from the air, makes methane, makes amino acids, sequences dna, applies ribosomes (and has a closed loop to reproduce them) to produce a mass of protein, cooks it and serves it. | 16:43 |
| kanzure | sequences what dna | 16:44 |
| QuantumG | err, I mean, produces the sequence of dna | 16:44 |
| kanzure | synthesizes :) | 16:44 |
| QuantumG | yeah :) | 16:44 |
| kanzure | i haven't looked into molecular gastronomy before, so i don't know what the difference between raw and cooked protein might be | 16:44 |
| QuantumG | of course, there's also a certain amount of this that could be done by microbes.. but I'd want to be ensured that the microbes are secreting the proteins and being separated from them. | 16:47 |
| QuantumG | and a genome design that is resistant to mutation | 16:49 |
| QuantumG | .. there's something I find awesome about the idea of a "food machine" that requires only electricity and access to air. | 16:51 |
| JayDugger | As opposed to a solar-powered one? | 16:51 |
| kanzure | you mean a plant? | 16:52 |
| JayDugger | E.g., any food crop you care to name? | 16:52 |
| JayDugger | It is a cool idea, though. | 16:52 |
| QuantumG | solar powered via electricity would be more convenient | 16:52 |
| JayDugger | I agree. Plants have that whole diurnal cycle. | 16:52 |
| QuantumG | then you can use the solar panel for something else. | 16:52 |
| JayDugger | Lazy things. | 16:52 |
| QuantumG | of course, then I giggle when I imagine people putting a hand crank onto it | 16:55 |
| JayDugger | That is funny. | 16:55 |
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| kanzure | hey zancas | 17:03 |
| zancas | howdy | 17:03 |
| zancas | what's the word my fellow biohacker? | 17:03 |
| zancas | :> | 17:03 |
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| QuantumG | http://sugru.com/ | 17:22 |
| QuantumG | o..k | 17:22 |
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| nada | sup dudes | 17:23 |
| -!- nada is now known as blah | 17:25 | |
| QuantumG | nada | 17:25 |
| -!- blah is now known as LeeByshopSux4Eve | 17:25 | |
| LeeByshopSux4Eve | hay guyz | 17:25 |
| -!- LeeByshopSux4Eve is now known as LeeByshopSux4Evr | 17:25 | |
| LeeByshopSux4Evr | no one is saying anything | 17:26 |
| kanzure | i'm chatting it out with a professor about some cnc machine designs | 17:26 |
| technologiclee3 | LeeByshopSux4Evr: howdy | 17:28 |
| technologiclee3 | i'm catching up about what they were talking about - is IRC always where you go in a room and can not see what has been said in the last few minutes? | 17:29 |
| LeeByshopSux4Evr | yo | 17:29 |
| LeeByshopSux4Evr | pretty much yeah @lee | 17:29 |
| kanzure | if you want to see what we've been talking about, here's the logs: http://designfiles.org/~bryan/hplusroadmap.log.tar.gz | 17:29 |
| LeeByshopSux4Evr | IRC is where you go to prove how hardcore of a nerd you really are | 17:30 |
| technologiclee3 | well back the the rant i was stating on FB... | 17:30 |
| LeeByshopSux4Evr | we're in a transhuman IRC channel...i think we're at the top of the foodchain no? | 17:30 |
| technologiclee3 | well if they had too many more hoops - i don't know that i could get in in Ubuntu - but now after a reformat i can add add the channels again | 17:31 |
| technologiclee3 | but there is the problem of my screen name registration.. | 17:31 |
| technologiclee3 | i have technologiclee registered and a confirmation for technologiclee2... but | 17:31 |
| LeeByshopSux4Evr | haha | 17:32 |
| -!- LeeByshopSux4Evr is now known as Edwin | 17:32 | |
| technologiclee3 | whe i try to confirm the registration - it says i have to sign in - when i try to sign in it says i have to confirm reg.... | 17:32 |
| Edwin | sex | 17:32 |
| -!- Edwin is now known as EdwinRosero | 17:32 | |
| technologiclee3 | not a big deal but and example to barriers of entry | 17:32 |
| technologiclee3 | i do not think is should be exclusive | 17:33 |
| -!- EdwinRosero is now known as PixelHuman | 17:33 | |
| PixelHuman | agreed | 17:33 |
| kanzure | you're doing something wrong | 17:33 |
| technologiclee3 | lots of people with great ideas don't have the time to mess with archaic commands | 17:33 |
| technologiclee3 | i figured as much | 17:33 |
| technologiclee3 | but ya thats my point -i'm the kind of guy people assume to be a nerd before isay anything - and if i can't do it what hope is there for the rest ? ; ) | 17:35 |
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| technologiclee3 | this is a killer appp and a cornerstone of the 'escape velocity ' peole want QuantumG: so I'm imagining a machine that takes co2 and hydrogen from the air, makes methane, makes amino acids, sequences dna, applies ribosomes (and has a closed loop to reproduce them) | 17:37 |
| technologiclee3 | well plants do that | 17:38 |
| technologiclee3 | and bacteria | 17:38 |
| QuantumG | why do people always bring that up? | 17:39 |
| QuantumG | do they think we're incapable of doing something better than nature or something? | 17:39 |
| technologiclee3 | plants and bacteria? they are successfully doing what is specified - do you have something more mechanical in mind? they are machines - sure you can do better | 17:40 |
| QuantumG | 1. neither of them are powered by electricity.. just do that efficiently and they'll immediately be more interesting | 17:41 |
| technologiclee3 | we gotta 'boot strap' - theres some boots | 17:41 |
| QuantumG | 2. they're terribly inefficient. They're not designed to make food, they're "designed" to reproduce, making food is a happy side-effect | 17:42 |
| QuantumG | 3. they're fickle, require constant care and labor.. | 17:42 |
| QuantumG | 4. they're mortal | 17:43 |
| QuantumG | .. the list goes on | 17:43 |
| randallagordon | they're fickle when we're trying to control them...they do quite well in the habitats they evolved in ;) | 17:43 |
| randallagordon | (just playing devil's advocate, on the whole, I tend to agree, we can do better) | 17:43 |
| QuantumG | we can easily outperform nature, but most people tend to think we should start from nature and improve on it.. selective breeding, genetics.. | 17:44 |
| PixelHuman | biomimicry | 17:45 |
| PixelHuman | I think dealing with evolved systems can work for certain cases...othertimes it's just a pain in the ass | 17:45 |
| randallagordon | no reason to outright ignore it either...kludges evolved species may be, but kludges are useful none-the-less, even if you're learning how not to do it... | 17:45 |
| QuantumG | the same thing happens when people design life support systems for spacecraft | 17:45 |
| PixelHuman | how do i register a nick | 17:46 |
| QuantumG | sensible engineers sit down with a clean sheet of paper and look for chemical and mechanical systems that can do the job | 17:46 |
| PixelHuman | i feel like im not part of the club yet | 17:46 |
| PixelHuman | is there a gang beating involved? | 17:46 |
| randallagordon | that's now how things tend to work, though ;) Just look at the history of computer science, it isn't defined by the best code, it is defined by "working code" | 17:47 |
| QuantumG | weirdo idealists seem to think some sort of portable ecosystem is required | 17:47 |
| technologiclee3 | in the nick serv | 17:47 |
| QuantumG | to me, an ecosystem is just "we don't know how this works, but we've tuned it to work under strict operating conditions" | 17:48 |
| technologiclee3 | its like register <nick> <pw> <email> i forget | 17:48 |
| PixelHuman | fuck it | 17:49 |
| technologiclee3 | i think you only get beat for saying somthing undefensible - or foolish | 17:49 |
| PixelHuman | jesus loves you | 17:49 |
| QuantumG | /msg nickserv help | 17:49 |
| PixelHuman | *covers face* | 17:49 |
| PixelHuman | i'm legit | 17:51 |
| randallagordon | Just finished actually getting caught up on what you were talking about before, QuantumG | 17:53 |
| technologiclee3 | NickServ: (notice) technologiclee2 is not registered. | 17:53 |
| QuantumG | cool | 17:53 |
| QuantumG | in-vitro synthesized egg white, get right on that. | 17:54 |
| technologiclee3 | as a response to /msg NickServ VERIFY REGISTER technologiclee2 qrkwekkrawjd | 17:54 |
| PixelHuman | just throwing this out there | 17:54 |
| PixelHuman | predictions on when/if singularity/human desctruction will take place? | 17:55 |
| QuantumG | presumably you missed a step | 17:55 |
| randallagordon | I dig the idea...although, as a foodie, don't be quick to downplay the experential aspects of food consumption...I'd immediately set to work to see how it could be applied to create novel foods...see it as just another source of ingrediants | 17:55 |
| QuantumG | never | 17:55 |
| technologiclee3 | you could probly make egg white by the vat | 17:55 |
| QuantumG | mmm... egg white cube | 17:55 |
| randallagordon | hehe, Pentomlette | 17:56 |
| technologiclee3 | destruction - anyday singularity 10-20 yrs | 17:56 |
| PixelHuman | 10? | 17:57 |
| PixelHuman | we have an optimist amongs us | 17:57 |
| technologiclee3 | it depends on what you call the singularity - computers will only be 4 times more powerful by then with groups of them starting to = human brain computational ablitity - but as for manufacturing... it could have developed nicely by then | 17:58 |
| technologiclee3 | oh - thats 4 doublings... | 17:59 |
| randallagordon | the existance of the hardware does not ensure the existance of the software, however ;) | 17:59 |
| PixelHuman | @Randall | 18:00 |
| technologiclee3 | with a worldwide effort i think it could be done quite soon | 18:00 |
| PixelHuman | yeah | 18:00 |
| technologiclee3 | riiight we are using silly programs on what we have now | 18:00 |
| QuantumG | what's with the spaces? | 18:00 |
| randallagordon | said software can not exist until human understanding of the subject matter exists... | 18:01 |
| technologiclee3 | me - i don't now i just type - somehow it is releavan t to what i amm thinking - but now im self consious ; ) | 18:01 |
| randallagordon | although if one were to quantify "understanding", that certainly doesn't sit still either ;) | 18:01 |
| kanzure | yawn | 18:01 |
| randallagordon | I consider myself to be very optimistic saying we can *start* to look for it 30 years out, hehe | 18:02 |
| technologiclee3 | back to that question - it will happen when either it just natuarally happens - or when somones concentrated effort makes it happen with that last bit of fiddling around in the garage/lab/keystroke | 18:03 |
| randallagordon | don't be self-conscious around here, unrestrained optimisim is an asset when paired with the ability to back it with facts | 18:03 |
| randallagordon | I'm willing to change my mind, if you can see how to do it in 10 years, by all means, let's get it done! :) | 18:04 |
| technologiclee3 | to me the 'hyperintelligent Ais' do not define the singularity | 18:04 |
| technologiclee3 | anyone read Engines of Creation? | 18:05 |
| PixelHuman | by drexler? yeah | 18:05 |
| QuantumG | yeah, quality | 18:05 |
| * randallagordon feels left out...EoC is still sitting in his wishlist... | 18:05 | |
| technologiclee3 | ya for some easy little short stories it sure packs a punch | 18:05 |
| * randallagordon goes to order it and get it on the way... | 18:05 | |
| QuantumG | I hadn't even heard of nanotech before I read EoC | 18:06 |
| technologiclee3 | i got one from the libray - and lost it | 18:06 |
| QuantumG | so it completely blew my mind | 18:06 |
| JayDugger | Randallagordon, that's available on foresight.org and on e-drexler.com | 18:06 |
| technologiclee3 | or i think someonelse lost it | 18:06 |
| QuantumG | http://e-drexler.com/d/06/00/EOC/EOC_Table_of_Contents.html | 18:07 |
| * randallagordon still enjoys reading print books while lounging in bathtubs... | 18:07 | |
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| randallagordon | I want a copy in my library so I can loan it to those who have yet to discover the internet exists... | 18:08 |
| PixelHuman | haha | 18:08 |
| JayDugger | Ah. | 18:08 |
| PixelHuman | I found Age of Spiritual Machines in my Library | 18:08 |
| QuantumG | I read it in the public reference library | 18:08 |
| PixelHuman | my mind was blown | 18:08 |
| kanzure | anyone know an easy way to back up a MS SQL database? | 18:09 |
| randallagordon | Plus, I come from a family of loggers, I just really enjoy killing trees...! | 18:09 |
| randallagordon | eh, eh? ;) | 18:09 |
| QuantumG | .. and I went back there last year and tried to get out the one copy of EoC they had, ya know, to feel the paper that I first read it from. | 18:09 |
| QuantumG | They told me the book was in storage and I couldn't access it | 18:10 |
| QuantumG | .. at least not that day. | 18:10 |
| JayDugger | kanzure, I don't know how to do that. | 18:10 |
| PixelHuman | in "storage"? | 18:10 |
| PixelHuman | woow | 18:10 |
| JayDugger | Libraries don't always have their entire collection out for loan. | 18:10 |
| PixelHuman | EoC should be showcased | 18:10 |
| JayDugger | "A global approach to automatic solution of jigsaw puzzles." | 18:13 |
| JayDugger | doi:10.1016/j.comgeo.2004.03/007 | 18:13 |
| kanzure | need it? | 18:14 |
| JayDugger | Now my girlfriend and I can argue about jigsaw puzzle strategy with references! | 18:14 |
| randallagordon | yeah, I'm no help, kanzure, I use mysql | 18:14 |
| kanzure | randallagordon: me too | 18:14 |
| JayDugger | Freely available, thank you, though. | 18:14 |
| kanzure | i've inherited this problem | 18:14 |
| randallagordon | ouch | 18:14 |
| technologiclee3 | about 2 years ago - i went down the list of books with nano in the title and ordered them all through interlibrary loan - thats when i found out that the journal papers online were the newest thing available | 18:15 |
| randallagordon | JayDugger, sounds like you have an amazing relationship | 18:15 |
| kanzure | you should let her decide where the pieces go. | 18:15 |
| kanzure | just accept it :) | 18:15 |
| kanzure | haha | 18:15 |
| randallagordon | there are plenty of women available with whom one can maintain reasonable debate regarding jigsaw strategy | 18:16 |
| Martyn | kanzure : http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms187510.aspx | 18:16 |
| Martyn | microsoft has a very complete set of documentation online | 18:16 |
| kanzure | is this for their windows-only client | 18:16 |
| Martyn | yep | 18:17 |
| kanzure | yep looks like it | 18:17 |
| kanzure | what a load of shit | 18:17 |
| JayDugger | We work on it at different times. | 18:17 |
| Martyn | that's ms sql for you | 18:17 |
| Martyn | but that's what you have to do | 18:17 |
| Martyn | I use drizzle | 18:17 |
| randallagordon | Engines of Creation, on its way | 18:17 |
| kanzure | Martyn: i know you're lying because i have a non-MS client here that is working | 18:17 |
| kanzure | anyway this is supposed to be SQL | 18:17 |
| kanzure | shouldn't there be a query that does this? | 18:17 |
| JayDugger | She places according to printed pattern compared to final image. | 18:17 |
| randallagordon | I don't know what I would do without Amazon Prime... I <3 1-click Prime orders on used books. | 18:18 |
| JayDugger | I place the piece by pattern and fit according to pre-existing pieces. | 18:18 |
| Martyn | kanzure : YOU asked, and all I did was point you to documentation. I don't take kindly to being called a liar. | 18:19 |
| Martyn | even in jest. | 18:19 |
| kanzure | "but that's what you have to do" | 18:19 |
| kanzure | i think that is a lie | 18:19 |
| Martyn | Yes, as in "READ THE DOCUMENTATION" | 18:19 |
| kanzure | that's a gui-specific page you linked me to | 18:19 |
| Martyn | Yes, yes it is. | 18:19 |
| kanzure | okay, so i know you're lying | 18:20 |
| kanzure | sql is not about guis all the time | 18:20 |
| Martyn | You know what? I'm tired of your style of conversation. | 18:20 |
| kanzure | okay? | 18:20 |
| randallagordon | Correct, but MS is about guis all the time... ;) | 18:20 |
| Martyn | Have a good evening... I've got work to do. | 18:20 |
| -!- Martyn [n=martinb@cpe-70-112-85-99.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [] | 18:20 | |
| JayDugger | Good night, Martyn. | 18:20 |
| kanzure | he didn't have to quit :( | 18:20 |
| JayDugger | Time to bathe the cat. | 18:21 |
| JayDugger | Good night, all. | 18:21 |
| kanzure | odd time it is | 18:21 |
| kanzure | night | 18:21 |
| randallagordon | I take it Martyn doesn't have thick skin... | 18:21 |
| kanzure | earlier today he was upset that i wasn't kissing up to rob carlson :/ | 18:21 |
| -!- Martyn [n=martinb@cpe-70-112-85-99.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #hplusroadmap | 18:21 | |
| kanzure | hi Martyn | 18:21 |
| Martyn | No .. I'm not QUITE done | 18:22 |
| Martyn | READ THE BOTTOM OF THE GOD_DAMNED_PAGE I posted | 18:22 |
| Martyn | it shows how to do it with a transact SQL statement | 18:22 |
| Martyn | NOW I'm done. You have a useful, non GUI solution. | 18:22 |
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| Martyn | Now, see you on the 2nd, if you're coming to help build the space. Other than that, I'm not coming back on channel for a while. | 18:22 |
| technologiclee3 | our work is too important for any nonsense | 18:22 |
| -!- Martyn [n=martinb@cpe-70-112-85-99.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] | 18:22 | |
| randallagordon | Tact. Awesome. | 18:23 |
| kanzure | huh? i'm so confused | 18:23 |
| kanzure | does he hate me? | 18:23 |
| randallagordon | Impressive display of overbearing egotism, I'd say | 18:24 |
| kanzure | i try not to be, but sometimes i'm just an ass | 18:24 |
| kanzure | sorry everyone | 18:24 |
| QuantumG | someone mention my name? | 18:24 |
| randallagordon | I took your words to be in jest, bro, I assume you were being lighthearted, anyways | 18:24 |
| kanzure | what? | 18:25 |
| randallagordon | "<kanzure> Martyn: i know you're lying because i have a non-MS client here that is working" seems to be what set him off | 18:25 |
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| kanzure | oh. i see. | 18:25 |
| QuantumG | kanzure: you don't remember talking to me in 2007? :) | 18:25 |
| kanzure | QuantumG: a little. i remember you made good slashdot comments. | 18:26 |
| randallagordon | I assume you were saying that to poke fun at MS's general methodology, or something along those lines, anyways... | 18:26 |
| kanzure | actually no, i really do have a gui over here that is not made by microsoft | 18:27 |
| PixelHuman | i leave for 4 min and a fight breaks out | 18:27 |
| PixelHuman | *sigh* we're all doomed | 18:27 |
| QuantumG | "Hey there. I was going to reply to your post via Slashdot, but decided a private response may be better." Jun 25, 2007 | 18:27 |
| kanzure | was that me or you, QuantumG ? | 18:27 |
| QuantumG | you | 18:27 |
| kanzure | ouch. i probably was an ass | 18:27 |
| technologiclee3 | riiiight! | 18:27 |
| technologiclee3 | oh Pixel not kanzure | 18:28 |
| QuantumG | nah, we were talking about controlling inertia and other junk | 18:28 |
| kanzure | so it looks like MS SQL has a "BACKUP" command, but it can only backup to disk or to tape | 18:29 |
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| technologiclee3 | welll i'm always talking about the software to make the hardware - or anything else | 18:29 |
| technologiclee3 | but back to the web communication thing | 18:30 |
| kanzure | maybe i can back it up on to the ftp server | 18:30 |
| kanzure | oh wait they are different physical servers. | 18:31 |
| PixelHuman | I think i'm just going to just hang out in an island for a few decades | 18:31 |
| PixelHuman | i'll come back when the sing is upon us | 18:32 |
| PixelHuman | maybe i'll let it come to me | 18:32 |
| technologiclee3 | for example i have a stupid question right now about is there a way to pick up on a chatroom where you left off or doy you always scroll back up to where you were - but i would never ask that without googling first - and so say we are lloking for some answer to somthing we end up cuat and pasting links that the other people go open.... totally ineffecient | 18:32 |
| randallagordon | technologiclee3, leave your client open and log | 18:33 |
| kanzure | yeah i'm surprised not many of us in here use "screen" | 18:34 |
| technologiclee3 | but i mean if i wake up and there has been activity and the client has been open for days i have to go find the last thing i read - i just want to put a 'bookmark' and go to that last read part | 18:34 |
| technologiclee3 | screen? | 18:34 |
| randallagordon | I need to give it a shot one of these days...I was talking with a fellow Palm Pre user that uses screen to keep up with his IM accounts via Finch | 18:34 |
| kanzure | to do that you can just scroll up a bit and let the window accumulate a buffer. your scroll position doesn't change | 18:34 |
| randallagordon | you can also do nifty things with regex to setup notifications, such as when your nick gets mentioned | 18:35 |
| technologiclee3 | ahhhh ya thats what i had thought but i thought it didn't work once or twice - i probly forgot to scroll up | 18:35 |
| kanzure | randallagordon: i had the batman theme playing for a while whenever my nick was mentioned. i didn't let that last long. | 18:36 |
| randallagordon | haha, wow, yeah...no doubt | 18:36 |
| technologiclee3 | ok so what do yall do about being in here and keeping up with emails as they come in? and fb | 18:37 |
| technologiclee3 | i know you can tile programs | 18:37 |
| kanzure | facebook is lame | 18:37 |
| PixelHuman | hey everyone im going to leave now | 18:37 |
| PixelHuman | it was nice hanging out | 18:37 |
| PixelHuman | it was like h+ summit all over again | 18:37 |
| PixelHuman | Have a happy new year | 18:37 |
| PixelHuman | see you in the future! | 18:37 |
| technologiclee3 | ya but fb is brining people together in groups like nothing else | 18:37 |
| technologiclee3 | l8r Pixel | 18:38 |
| randallagordon | fb is impossible to ignore at this point...it is practically more useful than email | 18:38 |
| randallagordon | have a good one PixelHuman | 18:38 |
| technologiclee3 | they are very sililar since i let them email about everything - but sometimes i find out in gmail before fb | 18:39 |
| randallagordon | ...and I really hate to have to admit that about fb...oh how I do...but at nearly 400 million users, many of which don't even recognize email as a form of communication beyond signing up for fb in the first place, it has major power to connect people | 18:39 |
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| technologiclee3 | ahhh i think its great but it could be better - and i mean that in the most opportunistic way | 18:40 |
| randallagordon | If you have a 21"+ widescreen, generally it becomes easier to simply "stack" windows...I used to be a stickler for maximizing all my windows, but since some designers have yet to determine that fluid layouts and widescreen monitors don't play nice, that doesn't work well anymore... | 18:41 |
| technologiclee3 | i had dual screen for a moment - gotta wait for Lucid to catch up | 18:42 |
| technologiclee3 | but the principle is how many programs/ windows does it take to stay connected? | 18:42 |
| QuantumG | dude, spaces, what's with them? | 18:42 |
| randallagordon | I want a 4x21" portrait array stacked on a 2x30" landscape array :D | 18:42 |
| randallagordon | as many as it takes ;) | 18:43 |
| technologiclee3 | for all the social networking stuff - i has the yoono firefox sidebar - it does facebook, myspace, twitter freindfeed and more | 18:43 |
| randallagordon | It is like languages, how many different languages do you need to know to get your job done? Depends on where you're working... | 18:43 |
| technologiclee3 | i don't know it just happens | 18:43 |
| technologiclee3 | its not like i'm shouting | 18:43 |
| randallagordon | I use Pidgin to keep my IM networks in order | 18:44 |
| randallagordon | That helps | 18:44 |
| randallagordon | I cross between the development and design worlds regularly, so I end up using basically every communications network out there | 18:44 |
| randallagordon | it gets hectic | 18:44 |
| technologiclee3 | oh well it's not a major concern - but there is room for improvement | 18:44 |
| technologiclee3 | how does pidgen do social netw? | 18:45 |
| kanzure | it does not | 18:45 |
| technologiclee3 | ohhh IM nets | 18:45 |
| randallagordon | Google Talk and email are my preferences for communication, but I also have contacts on all the major IM networks, AIM, MSN, Yahoo, I still have an active ICQ account, heh... | 18:46 |
| kanzure | yep | 18:46 |
| technologiclee3 | yoono does all that - maybe not voice | 18:46 |
| randallagordon | Pidgin can now work with most of the social networking sites for updating status and chat | 18:46 |
| technologiclee3 | i saw a updafe fb , MySpace from gchat | 18:47 |
| kanzure | ah, didn't know pidgin does that | 18:47 |
| technologiclee3 | if i could get irc in yoono ... | 18:47 |
| randallagordon | I use Gmail for email and the rest of Google's PIM services (Conctacs, Calendar, Tasks, etc.), HydraIRC for IRC (whee!), Pidgin for IM/chat, TweetDeck for twitter, Ping.fm for status updates, Posterous and WordPress for longer stuff... | 18:49 |
| technologiclee3 | back to one of my points so i'm surfing along and then i'm in here then i go look at a paper and it is switching between programs fien i can alt+tab in circles all day - but i want 1 tool | 18:49 |
| randallagordon | ...I think that covers the core of my communications | 18:49 |
| randallagordon | oh, and Skype, of course...can't leave out Skype anymore, either | 18:49 |
| randallagordon | (as much as I would love to) | 18:49 |
| randallagordon | Then I use Chrome as my main browser, leaving tabs with Gmail, iGoogle with various gadgets and Facebook open in tabs all the time | 18:50 |
| randallagordon | and increasingly, Wave | 18:51 |
| technologiclee3 | i got skype on FB - can't tell if it works | 18:51 |
| randallagordon | eh...you can install a "call me" button/gadget/thing | 18:51 |
| randallagordon | but you still need client software...I'm not aware of a Flash client anyways... | 18:51 |
| technologiclee3 | i tried to get some people on wave - nothing going on there for me yet - and it totally does not mesh with email - and i but a bunch of wave bots - can't tell if theyre doing anything | 18:52 |
| randallagordon | heh, bots are mostly annoying | 18:52 |
| randallagordon | Wave rocks if you have a purpose for it | 18:52 |
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| randallagordon | Otherwise it is mostly useless, heh | 18:53 |
| technologiclee3 | oh ya i'm using firefox and opera because of different features - and sometimes videos | 18:53 |
| randallagordon | I use it with my business partners to keep organized | 18:53 |
| randallagordon | Chrome ftw | 18:53 |
| randallagordon | I've been a diehard FF fan, but Chrome just slaughters it | 18:53 |
| technologiclee3 | randallagordon: ya just search for skype on Fb and theres the app - i don't know if it needs the program i have it also tho | 18:54 |
| randallagordon | (although I can't speak for Chrome on Linux, I have yet to try it) | 18:54 |
| randallagordon | I'm just finding their Page, and a bunch of "call me" type things | 18:55 |
| randallagordon | which all reek of data mining | 18:55 |
| technologiclee3 | i've been meaning to try it - yall wait right here - i'll be back ; ) | 18:55 |
| technologiclee3 | ya - it's downloading - and painless too | 18:56 |
| technologiclee3 | the whole net is data mining - might as well get some use out of it | 18:57 |
| randallagordon | heh, yeah, but when you allow a Fb app, they get access to a good bit of power ;) | 18:57 |
| technologiclee3 | i don't like or use any of that stuff - back to the BetterThan FB site i was advocating... | 18:58 |
| technologiclee3 | ok FF, opera and chrome which seems to have made itself the deafult after 2 'no's | 19:00 |
| technologiclee3 | yep i missed emails while in here - ... | 19:01 |
| randallagordon | Do you have an older computer? | 19:02 |
| randallagordon | You're running Unbuntu, yeah? | 19:02 |
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| technologiclee3 | i would say back to work - but there have been some on the Open manu list that think we could use a better medium of communication and i agree - email is effective . but also limiting - like i wanted to reply to 2 different points in 2 posts in one tread - which means either 2 emails - or cutting and pasting from 2 posts.. and even here the conversation is linear - it would be easier if i could post a comment to any comment and the users see | 19:04 |
| technologiclee3 | fairly new Dual core amd 3.2Ghz 8Gb ram never had windows for a second all ubuntu all the way - ya | 19:05 |
| kanzure | i don't know if it's worth mentioning ted nelson | 19:05 |
| randallagordon | Just leave your browser running | 19:05 |
| randallagordon | That machine can multitask like a madman | 19:05 |
| randallagordon | I keep all of the software I mentioned before, and more, running simultaneously pretty much 24/7 | 19:06 |
| randallagordon | Then you can get your notifications of new email and such, all the time | 19:07 |
| randallagordon | ...just make sure not to go overboard, you have to then learn when to shut it all off ;) | 19:07 |
| technologiclee3 | well ya but i've got 3 open now - but back to my point say i have the terminal open (with tabs inside) and then the netbeans IDE and then i'm whining to kanzure in here about an error and looking at a broser to Pastebin and then theres some emails and a good link in FB - thats all the screen(s) - ok 2 could doit - and my best hope is a blinking icon in fb to notify me i'm missing another chat - 1 need some tool consol | 19:08 |
| randallagordon | That's just the state of the technology ;) | 19:09 |
| kanzure | http://heybryan.org/shots/inspiration/notstevebutjoe/IMG_0872.JPG | 19:09 |
| randallagordon | There are an insane number of different solutions, you just have to find what works for you | 19:09 |
| randallagordon | That looks like my college dorm, hehe | 19:09 |
| randallagordon | I ran 3 17"s, my roomie 2x21"s and a 19" | 19:10 |
| kanzure | i was running 5 off one box at one point | 19:10 |
| randallagordon | ...we were notorious for killing the breaker, hehe | 19:10 |
| randallagordon | had to turn off monitors in order to use the microwave | 19:10 |
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| technologiclee3 | i had 78 tabs in FF earlier and a host of pdfs open - and the ide irc terminal and i try to shut off the things i'm done with before i lock up the computer but that is just how i get the most out of it - ya so i'm seeing what other 'power users' are doing and looking to the next - step - oh i enjoy it all - i just wanna push myself further | 19:10 |
| kanzure | stop using firefox | 19:11 |
| kanzure | has opera been kind to you? | 19:11 |
| randallagordon | FF eats memory for lunch | 19:11 |
| technologiclee3 | hahaha - ya the octopus getting hot with all the current | 19:11 |
| randallagordon | but you do have 8GB of mem ;) | 19:11 |
| kanzure | randallagordon: i've been able to do 400 tabs easily with opera | 19:11 |
| jrutherford | Hey. Just stopped by for a bit to say hi. | 19:11 |
| kanzure | so i recommended that lee try it out and get rid of opera | 19:11 |
| kanzure | hi there | 19:11 |
| randallagordon | very nice | 19:12 |
| kanzure | er | 19:12 |
| kanzure | get rid of firefox | 19:12 |
| randallagordon | have you tried Chrome? I love it on Win, but haven't used it on other platforms | 19:12 |
| technologiclee3 | ya - but i needed to watch vids and it wasnt happening but i think that might be fixed Pidgen is opening the links in FF so im kinda leaning on it still - and theres no google preview in opera - but ya i like it | 19:12 |
| technologiclee3 | ya - went hungra a bit to get that - worth it! | 19:13 |
| kanzure | i'm sure there's a greasemonkey script for "google preview" (whatever that is) | 19:13 |
| technologiclee3 | see litle previews of the webpages in google search | 19:13 |
| kanzure | i wrote a script once to automatically scroll through google search results and you'd just sit there typing down numbers that you want opened up in tabs | 19:13 |
| kanzure | see it in action: http://heybryan.org/shots/June12th02007_Firefox_interface.wmv | 19:14 |
| randallagordon | wmv!? :P | 19:14 |
| kanzure | sorry :( | 19:15 |
| randallagordon | Where's the Ogg love? ;) | 19:15 |
| kanzure | i was young and clueless | 19:15 |
| jrutherford | I prefer FLV... :-) | 19:15 |
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| kanzure | anyway a good improvement that i want to eventually do | 19:16 |
| kanzure | is one where it analyzes the keywords on the pages that i select | 19:16 |
| kanzure | and appends extra google search results (for those keywords) in the queue of pages to select' | 19:16 |
| kanzure | plus a pause key and so on | 19:16 |
| randallagordon | gawd, I'd never get anything done | 19:16 |
| randallagordon | I try to limit myself to 30 tabs :P | 19:17 |
| kanzure | randallagordon: i wrote the "book" on "extreme power-user browsing with thousands of tabs" | 19:17 |
| kanzure | http://heybryan.org/projects/browsehack/tabtabtab.html | 19:17 |
| jrutherford | Well... I'm gonna take off... if I don't hear from you between now and then... I'll see you on Saturday at the meeting. | 19:18 |
| kanzure | checkout the tab addiction: http://heybryan.org/shots/2008-01-21_coincidences.png | 19:18 |
| kanzure | jrutherford: okay, see you :) | 19:18 |
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| technologiclee3 | at this point i would benifit from my search knowing what i have seen before and liked and what was not relavent | 19:19 |
| kanzure | sure, user preference modeling | 19:19 |
| kanzure | technologiclee3: did you see the paper on the semantic search facilitator? | 19:20 |
| kanzure | technologiclee3: http://www.cs.jyu.fi/ai/OntoGroup/InBCT_May_2004.html | 19:20 |
| technologiclee3 | and if it would find pages that cite papers that have been liked - um no? | 19:20 |
| technologiclee3 | i used to listen to papers with Sayz Me on windows - i just got a text to speech on ubuntu but i cant find it | 19:22 |
| technologiclee3 | festival | 19:22 |
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| randallagordon | Yeah, I'd go nuts with tabs everywhere | 19:27 |
| randallagordon | I just keep well-tagged bookmarks and call it good | 19:27 |
| kanzure | i got annoyed when my bookmarking clients started to crash with more than 15,000 bookmarks | 19:28 |
| randallagordon | I use Google Bookmarks | 19:28 |
| technologiclee3 | i can not seem to find anything in bookmarks or history either - maybe if they were searchable - | 19:29 |
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| randallagordon | well, if you're okay with that whole data mining thing, Google History is useful | 19:30 |
| QuantumG | I have no idea what firefox's "search" box in bookmarks actually searches | 19:30 |
| technologiclee3 | is that an addon? | 19:30 |
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| randallagordon | (yes, I tend to use a lot of Google services, if it isn't already obvious) | 19:30 |
| QuantumG | probably just the url + title | 19:30 |
| technologiclee3 | they have my hitory anyway - might as well let the user use it | 19:31 |
| randallagordon | Yeah, but this moves it from being "anonymous" to being tied to your Google Account ;) | 19:31 |
| technologiclee3 | i used Foxmarks/ xmarks for a while - sometimes it would slow or crash things while 'synchronizing' | 19:32 |
| kanzure | i use flatfile bookmarks now. | 19:32 |
| technologiclee3 | if they see me go to my email - im sure they know it is me searching | 19:32 |
| randallagordon | I end up using too many machines which are not my own, so I prefer cloud based solutions | 19:33 |
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| randallagordon | but, only if they're based on open standards and the data can be exported | 19:33 |
| kanzure | *cough* which you can't do with your google history, for instance | 19:33 |
| randallagordon | hence, I dig Google | 19:33 |
| kanzure | i need to eventually write a scraper | 19:33 |
| randallagordon | Eh, yeah you can | 19:33 |
| kanzure | uh? where | 19:33 |
| kanzure | i want my search history exported | 19:33 |
| randallagordon | there's an xml export | 19:33 |
| * kanzure checks | 19:34 | |
| kanzure | on here? http://www.google.com/history/ | 19:34 |
| kanzure | where? | 19:34 |
| randallagordon | http://www.google.com/history/lookup?q=&output=rss&num=1000 | 19:34 |
| randallagordon | RSS, specifically...I'd imagine you could use atom too | 19:35 |
| technologiclee3 | i try to use all of googles products - i have my calendar and reader in my gmail - i can send sms from gchat - i use igoogle - i have google calendar on my fb | 19:35 |
| randallagordon | granted, not well publicised ;) | 19:35 |
| kanzure | doesn't look like it can support 30k at once. hrm | 19:35 |
| QuantumG | for a while, google had this cool table app in labs | 19:36 |
| QuantumG | it was like google sets | 19:36 |
| kanzure | max of 5k | 19:36 |
| technologiclee3 | haha! sweet | 19:36 |
| QuantumG | but with tables | 19:36 |
| technologiclee3 | they stiopped labs - i liked it i want another one | 19:36 |
| randallagordon | stopped labs? | 19:37 |
| QuantumG | so you'd put in country names in the first column, and capitals in the second column and it would extend the table | 19:37 |
| randallagordon | yeah, I tinkered with it a bit QuantumG, it rocked | 19:37 |
| technologiclee3 | ya i don't think anyone can start using google - oh wait i mean notebook | 19:37 |
| randallagordon | ahhh | 19:38 |
| randallagordon | Notebook rocked | 19:38 |
| kanzure | randallagordon: how did you know about the "num" parameter? | 19:38 |
| randallagordon | http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Google+History+export ;) | 19:38 |
| technologiclee3 | i found several igoogle widgets that link it to other services like twitter and all - but it also has one for EyeOs which is an 'online desktop that i use to open igoogle in again... youOS was better but is gone | 19:39 |
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| randallagordon | wb Aliks | 19:39 |
| Aliks | ty | 19:39 |
| Aliks | whats up | 19:39 |
| kanzure | trying to scrape 30k searches from google.com/history | 19:40 |
| technologiclee3 | that was funny - i google stuff for people and they are like WOW | 19:40 |
| randallagordon | hehe I love lmgtfy | 19:41 |
| technologiclee3 | thats why i try not to ask questions that i haven't tried to find the answer to , but you guys have some good stuff, that i don't think i would find | 19:42 |
| technologiclee3 | your like filtered content | 19:42 |
| technologiclee3 | welll - does anyone know where festival is in ubuntu after i installedit - i did a trivial search (suuure) | 19:44 |
| randallagordon | thats precisely why Google is all over realtime search re: twitter/facebook...people have learned that going to their social network to get something answered is faster than Google alone... | 19:46 |
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| randallagordon | at least until you piss everyone off and they stop talking to you ;) | 19:47 |
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| technologiclee3 | i ask as the - let me get that for you ' for my less technical freinds - but recencly i saw a web dev ask where a store was in the city - and i smirked | 19:47 |
| technologiclee3 | act* | 19:47 |
| kanzure | wtf i really don't have a mouse? | 19:48 |
| * kanzure looks | 19:48 | |
| randallagordon | Aye, for most factual stuff, a quick Google search is far faster than asking someone... | 19:48 |
| randallagordon | Procedural and opinion data, however, social networks shine | 19:48 |
| technologiclee3 | its about 1 doing the search 2 knowing how to choose the keywords 3 persitance - i see why my festival search failed - the work festival is like party - not like libwhatever which only means that one specific thing - so now i know | 19:49 |
| randallagordon | yeah, I'm not much help...I'm probably one of the few people here who still rely on Windows, heh | 19:50 |
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| randallagordon | unfortunately I rely on two of Linux's big downfalls...the ability to run Adobe's entire Creative Suite and I just refuse to deal with the ninty million possible configurations with the various audio stacks | 19:51 |
| technologiclee3 | i guess i would - but windows lost the touchpad on my new laptop - ok it happens i guess - but on their forums they said it was not thier fault - so i took the bit of linux i got from my CS classes - and an easy to install Ubuntu Live cd and went for it - and then the whole idea of open source made it a principle kind of thing | 19:52 |
| randallagordon | although I'd love to fix the latter issue with carefully selected hardware and run Ardour | 19:52 |
| technologiclee3 | you could dual boot...... zero synergy but all that extra software - Ubuntu Studio has some nice stuff | 19:53 |
| randallagordon | but unfortunately the ball is mostly in Adobe's court for the former issue...and I just refuse to use Apple products on principal :P | 19:53 |
| randallagordon | I virtualize | 19:53 |
| randallagordon | I've got an Ubuntu install running all the time in VirtualBox | 19:54 |
| technologiclee3 | ya apple does not applea to me for their business practices | 19:54 |
| randallagordon | Control is no bueño... | 19:54 |
| technologiclee3 | cool -- what do you need adobe for? | 19:54 |
| randallagordon | I do graphics design for a living | 19:54 |
| randallagordon | I just leave Illustrator, Photoshop and InDesign running...and more and more often I find myself in After Effects creating motion graphics | 19:54 |
| technologiclee3 | cool - after making web pages for people i discovered that i was not a graphic designer and realized the need to work with them | 19:56 |
| technologiclee3 | are you still having alea problems? | 19:57 |
| technologiclee3 | algea* | 19:57 |
| technologiclee3 | ironicly there are people on the list trying to grow algea | 19:57 |
| randallagordon | hehe, yeah | 19:58 |
| randallagordon | I haven't really tried to find any solutions, however | 19:58 |
| technologiclee3 | maybe it can be part of the system | 19:58 |
| randallagordon | with aquaponic systems, it is | 19:59 |
| randallagordon | at the moment, though, I just don't have the time to devote...the system is running and growing food, I'll have to learn more and start more improvements a few months from now | 20:00 |
| randallagordon | I set up the system because I'm working with a friend to setup a niche LED lighting retail business, we're importing the lights that I'm using in that setup | 20:01 |
| technologiclee3 | thats more that the vast majority can say | 20:01 |
| randallagordon | We're looking at buying a warehouse, at which point I intend to setup proper lab space and do controlled trials | 20:01 |
| randallagordon | I want to explore some of the science NASA has done re: LEDs for horticulture as a starting point, then explore some ideas of my own | 20:02 |
| technologiclee3 | alright! | 20:02 |
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| randallagordon | also hoping to carve out a section potentially for a hackerspace type of setup, so I have a route to explore ideas for blending open source with profitable ventures, but that's a touchy subject I intend to take great care with, my intent is to find ways to make capitalism work for all involved, as is the proper intent of a free market | 20:05 |
| randallagordon | I recently picked up forkcapitalism.com as an outlet for said ideas | 20:06 |
| technologiclee3 | so is it for selling food to sell? | 20:09 |
| technologiclee3 | growing* | 20:10 |
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| randallagordon | just personal use at this point | 20:13 |
| randallagordon | I do have several ideas to apply back to commercial applications | 20:13 |
| randallagordon | namely, I want to see the community supported agriculture idea moved into the 21st century, so I can order locally grown foods as I would any other good via the internet | 20:13 |
| randallagordon | I'm thinking that CSA style markets are better suited for internet sales than the traditional agribusiness model, anyways | 20:14 |
| randallagordon | the people involved are already attuned to thinking in a distributed manner | 20:14 |
| randallagordon | for instance, how could would it be to have a webcam setup in a Controlled Environment Agriculture, CEA, farm so that you can literally watch YOUR head of lettuce grow up? | 20:15 |
| randallagordon | er...how cool, lol | 20:15 |
| technologiclee3 | peopel want clean food - they would love to see 'their tomato' | 20:16 |
| randallagordon | There are already a couple projects launched, I'm graced to be located very near one such internet based CSA startup, but they're fairly basic with what they provide...having grown up using the internet, I know what is possible, so my ideas tend to be...large in scope. | 20:16 |
| Phreedom | randallagordon: having grown up not really using internet I really fear to lose it :) | 20:17 |
| technologiclee3 | the answer is festival runs from tha command line - a little clunk but it will work for now - all it need it to be tied to the right click... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlLO4Ufmc84 | 20:17 |
| Phreedom | offtopic I know | 20:17 |
| Phreedom | disregard me :) | 20:17 |
| randallagordon | Plus, I take issue with some of the people who take organic farming to religion levels and forsake the science that gave birth to the philosophy in the first place...so I want to get involved with changing minds on that front, showing that GE foods aren't inherently evil, they just require due diligence | 20:18 |
| randallagordon | Phreedom, fear losing...the internet? | 20:19 |
| randallagordon | heh, the wallpaper in that video is eerily similar to a photo I took of a leaf sitting on a mossy rock | 20:20 |
| technologiclee3 | arguably most cultivated food is geneticly modified thru selection if nothing else - it's when they are altered to make pesticide that i wonder - and since there is no labeling - we do not know the effects | 20:20 |
| randallagordon | lots of plants naturally make pesticides | 20:21 |
| randallagordon | a good portion of the food we eat is "naturally" toxic...take potatoes for example | 20:21 |
| technologiclee3 | i think each home should grow food - i saw a lille windowsill greenhouse built into the house - in the kitchen - and the residents wanted to remove it in a remodel ! | 20:22 |
| randallagordon | essentially, there are far bigger problems to fear than GE | 20:22 |
| randallagordon | GE is just one tool in the toolbox | 20:22 |
| randallagordon | as do I, at least grow what they can | 20:22 |
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| randallagordon | make better use of the space we have in general | 20:23 |
| technologiclee3 | nothing like fresh herbs - so what is your business model at this point - grow food sell food locally? | 20:24 |
| randallagordon | import and sell LED lighting fixtures, eventually using the proceeds for proper R&D and engineering of our own products | 20:24 |
| technologiclee3 | i met someone with a commecrial greenhouse with tomatoes - had some problems with bugs and such | 20:25 |
| technologiclee3 | you might want to check out - malcom beck | 20:25 |
| randallagordon | I'm also a photographer, so I intend to LED lighting products...continuous lighting as low-heat alternative to halogen/tungsten | 20:25 |
| randallagordon | intend to *create* | 20:27 |
| technologiclee3 | here is one book - looking for his site - he started with nothing and made millions doing compost | 20:27 |
| randallagordon | wow, I'm missing a lot of words tonight, lol | 20:27 |
| technologiclee3 | typing is so archaic | 20:27 |
| randallagordon | writing is worse :P | 20:28 |
| randallagordon | and talking gets overheard too easily | 20:28 |
| technologiclee3 | i think this is him - his page might be down - hes pretty old now http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tfnvnhQXbOQ | 20:29 |
| technologiclee3 | this is him for sure - i saw him speak at A&M and visited his garden/ composting facility in san antonio http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggBjmO9zTlU&feature=related | 20:30 |
| technologiclee3 | i had subsribed to my google history and saw my searches - but it says the feed can not be found - maybe it will kick in later | 20:31 |
| technologiclee3 | the brain machine interfaces are coming along nicely | 20:32 |
| randallagordon | indeed | 20:34 |
| genehacker | wellthere are still some problems | 20:37 |
| genehacker | the photonic approach is getting some where | 20:37 |
| --- Log closed Mon Dec 28 20:45:18 2009 | ||
| --- Log opened Mon Dec 28 20:45:22 2009 | ||
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| kanzure | Reversal of RNA Dominance by Displacement of Protein Sequestered on Triplet Repeat RNA http://designfiles.org/papers/Reversal%20of%20RNA%20Dominance%20by%20Displacement%20of%20Protein%20Sequestered%20on%20Triplet%20Repeat%20RNA.pdf | 20:50 |
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| genehacker | is there a #python? | 20:56 |
| kanzure | yes | 20:57 |
| genehacker | argh can't join | 20:57 |
| kanzure | it's ##python | 20:57 |
| kanzure | woops my bad | 20:57 |
| kanzure | just #python | 20:57 |
| genehacker | having trouble installing sympy | 20:58 |
| kanzure | what's wrong? | 20:58 |
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| genehacker | huh | 21:00 |
| genehacker | I might have installed | 21:00 |
| genehacker | how do I test? | 21:01 |
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| genehacker | nvm, I'll figure it out | 21:02 |
| kanzure | hey areyna3 | 21:08 |
| kanzure | welcome back | 21:08 |
| randallagordon | Note to self, do *not* jump on the Wii Balance Board...you get bitched at by cute on screen characters. | 21:08 |
| QuantumG | Rumor has it that all Interorbital Systems next generation hardware is fake - made from cardboard and foam. Police/FBI & News/Wired called. | 21:09 |
| kanzure | how do i stop latex from puking all over my directory | 21:10 |
| randallagordon | Use only genuine Trojan brand latex | 21:11 |
| kanzure | randallagordon: LaTeX | 21:11 |
| randallagordon | hehe, I know, I'm just being an ass ;) | 21:11 |
| kanzure | please don't make latex+ass jokes. | 21:11 |
| kanzure | (actually i don't care. but still.) | 21:12 |
| kanzure | hm http://www.partnerup.com/Property/US/CA/000068/Prime-Santa-Monica-Commercial-Space-Santa-Monica-CA/ | 21:16 |
| QuantumG | Former home of Rand Corporation. | 21:18 |
| kanzure | neat | 21:18 |
| QuantumG | cool, so there's probably virgins and christian babies in the drywall | 21:19 |
| randallagordon | Nah, they're up front about it, they're just right over in that closet on the left. | 21:20 |
| kanzure | :) | 21:20 |
| QuantumG | we'd remove them but it will cause the building to return to from-whence-it-came | 21:22 |
| randallagordon | And that would invalidate the lease, so we'll try to avoid that | 21:23 |
| randallagordon | ...we do want your check at the end of the month, after all. | 21:23 |
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| randallagordon | Wii Fit Plus is kicking my ass... | 21:47 |
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| Aliks | this disconnection thing is becoming soooo irritating.. gonna have to try that HyperIRC thing somebody mentioned | 22:24 |
| QuantumG | http://www.sentientdevelopments.com/2009/11/ibms-claim-to-have-simulated-cats-brain.html | 22:27 |
| kanzure | QuantumG: meh, they just scaled up an ANN | 22:40 |
| QuantumG | the actual announcement was simply that they were simulating a nice big ANN based on the neocortical column of a cat. | 22:41 |
| QuantumG | and that they had no results yet | 22:41 |
| randallagordon | Aliks, HydraIRC | 22:48 |
| QuantumG | use that client and you're headed for multiple disaster | 22:51 |
| randallagordon | oh? | 22:54 |
| QuantumG | multiple headed disaster | 22:54 |
| randallagordon | I've not had any issues with it | 22:55 |
| QuantumG | sigh | 22:55 |
| randallagordon | what precisely is wrong with it, if I might ask? | 22:56 |
| randallagordon | it has been many years since I actively used IRC, back then I stuck with mIRC...Hydra seemed to be a good alternative | 22:57 |
| QuantumG | never mind | 22:57 |
| kanzure | hydra, multiple heads | 22:57 |
| randallagordon | or are you simply making a linguistic joke? | 22:57 |
| QuantumG | http://www.iconaircraft.com/ | 23:00 |
| QuantumG | how to make a plane that looks as ugly as a helicopter | 23:02 |
| randallagordon | apparently I assumed too much for thinking you were being clever *and* had a point ;) | 23:02 |
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| randallagordon | quite interesting | 23:03 |
| QuantumG | they certainly know their market | 23:04 |
| QuantumG | the amphibious capability really does suggest "you'd spend $139k on a boat, why not a flying boat?" | 23:05 |
| randallagordon | indeed | 23:08 |
| randallagordon | I'd be interested if there were space for passengers, heh | 23:08 |
| randallagordon | (beyond one other) | 23:08 |
| QuantumG | nah, its 2 seater | 23:09 |
| QuantumG | http://www.iconaircraft.com/specifications-and-features.html | 23:09 |
| randallagordon | Quite nifty though...be awesome to fly up into mountain lakes and chill for a weekend, heh | 23:10 |
| QuantumG | so long as they were under 300 nautical miles away | 23:11 |
| QuantumG | and there was fuel up there, otherwise, 150 :) | 23:11 |
| randallagordon | easy enough around here | 23:12 |
| QuantumG | first deliveries expected in 2011 | 23:13 |
| randallagordon | pump gas, too...that's awesome | 23:13 |
| randallagordon | now I just need the SUV modification and I'm set... ;) | 23:15 |
| randallagordon | really though, I'd have no problem justifying the expense of one of those puppies if it were also road driveable from the airport to home...I can only imagine such a beast is a short period away from reality... | 23:16 |
| randallagordon | although I suppose if I can afford the plane, I can afford to leave another vehical parked in the hangar... | 23:17 |
| randallagordon | so, maybe just the "sedan" version, and I'll be happy... ;) | 23:18 |
| QuantumG | bah, as I said, people spend that much on a boat or a caravan | 23:20 |
| QuantumG | those jetskis in the video are not exactly cheap either | 23:20 |
| ybit | kanzure: what exactly is going on in the june12th2007 wmv? that's the first time i've seen that, ever | 23:24 |
| kanzure | it's a search tool | 23:28 |
| kanzure | basically it auto-scrolls through google search results | 23:28 |
| kanzure | you type in numbers to select the results, and they are converted into tabs | 23:28 |
| ybit | and lists something out to the side | 23:28 |
| ybit | ah | 23:28 |
| kanzure | i was using a vertical tab bar | 23:28 |
| Aliks | hey QuantumG where does your name come from? | 23:31 |
| Aliks | Quantum Gravity or Quantum Generations the book? | 23:31 |
| QuantumG | neither | 23:31 |
| kanzure | you forgot the obvious option: quantum gravy | 23:31 |
| Aliks | lol | 23:31 |
| QuantumG | mmm.. gravy | 23:31 |
| kanzure | see | 23:31 |
| QuantumG | it was an in-joke around '98 | 23:31 |
| kanzure | "yo dawg i heard you like gravy so i put some quantum gravy on your quantum quarks" | 23:31 |
| QuantumG | before then I was just Quantum | 23:31 |
| * Aliks nods. | 23:32 | |
| QuantumG | and a mate of mine would finish every sentence with <pause> G. | 23:32 |
| Aliks | BTW incase anyone hasnt read it, Quantum Generations is a pretty good book if you're interested in the history of physics | 23:32 |
| kanzure | does anyone have opinions on pete estep's commentary on SENS? http://www.technologyreview.com/article/17146/ | 23:32 |
| Aliks | isnt he the anti-sens guy? | 23:33 |
| kanzure | yes | 23:34 |
| Aliks | "Direct contradiction of key claims by much available and generally accepted evidence." I like that he doesnt state what "generally accepted evidence" that would be | 23:34 |
| Aliks | YES! my edit on wikipedia still stands! | 23:35 |
| Aliks | "This currently irreversible series of changes inevitably ends in death. " | 23:35 |
| Aliks | I added the currently | 23:35 |
| Aliks | in the article on aging | 23:35 |
| QuantumG | 1. wtf is SENS | 23:35 |
| Aliks | SENS = Strategies for Engineered Negligible Senescence | 23:35 |
| Aliks | wiki it | 23:35 |
| Aliks | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategies_for_Engineered_Negligible_Senescence | 23:35 |
| kanzure | Lenny Guarente? | 23:36 |
| kanzure | David SInclair, Judy Campisi, Cynthia Keynon, Bruce Ames? | 23:36 |
| kanzure | hrm | 23:36 |
| kanzure | need to stalk them | 23:36 |
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| Aliks | Yeah I agree with TR's assessment basically | 23:38 |
| Aliks | I mean, they were pretty fair about it | 23:38 |
| Aliks | the science isnt there yet to actually DO the work... but that doesnt mean it's wrong in theory | 23:39 |
| kanzure | the technology review article sucks | 23:39 |
| kanzure | it doesn't actually list any of their complaints about SENS | 23:39 |
| QuantumG | the wikipedia article is better | 23:39 |
| Aliks | agreed | 23:40 |
| QuantumG | (and that's saying something) | 23:40 |
| kanzure | heh | 23:40 |
| Aliks | well I think as intelligent, semi-informed people we can all come to our own conclusion about SENS without TR's help | 23:40 |
| Aliks | I mean, it's obvious to anyone with half a brain that in theory, life extension is possible | 23:40 |
| QuantumG | but hey, the fact that De Grey's suggestions for future research are a little "out there" is irrelevant | 23:40 |
| Aliks | On Oct. 9, 1903, the New York Times wrote: | 23:41 |
| Aliks | "The flying machine which will really fly might be evolved by the combined and continuous efforts of mathematicians and mechanicians in from one million to ten million years." | 23:41 |
| Aliks | On the same day, on Kill Devil Hill, N.C., in his diary, a bicycle mechanic named Orville Wright wrote: | 23:41 |
| Aliks | "We unpacked rest of goods for new machine." | 23:41 |
| QuantumG | De Grey's point is that geriatric medical research should be focused on the prevention and eventual elimination of aging. | 23:41 |
| QuantumG | people who say "but that'd be terrible" are welcome to die | 23:41 |
| Aliks | (Also note that these days somebody like Wright would be shouted down as "a complete amateur with no education in the field", be denied any research money, etc. ) | 23:42 |
| kanzure | can anyone find an article called "the pseudoscience of strategies for engineered negligable senescence" ? | 23:43 |
| QuantumG | ya mean like how people constantly troll me on Slashdot about how Elon Musk is an amateur? (although 90% of them can't spell amateur) | 23:43 |
| Aliks | lol | 23:43 |
| Aliks | right | 23:43 |
| kanzure | ah here we go | 23:44 |
| kanzure | http://www.technologyreview.com/sens/docs/estepetal.pdf | 23:44 |
| randallagordon | Wait, you mean he isn't an armature? | 23:44 |
| Aliks | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_quantum_mechanics, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_particle_physics interesting links | 23:44 |
| Aliks | randallagordon, I think the diff is in how they mean "amateur" | 23:44 |
| QuantumG | amature is the most common misspelling | 23:44 |
| Aliks | when most people say "amateur" they really mean "unskilled" | 23:44 |
| randallagordon | I was making a bad joke ;) | 23:45 |
| Aliks | lol ok | 23:45 |
| Aliks | I get it | 23:45 |
| Aliks | now I see the misspelling | 23:45 |
| QuantumG | ironically a-mature is pretty close to what they are trying to accuse his company of being. | 23:45 |
| randallagordon | I'm guilty of spelling it amature constantly... | 23:45 |
| randallagordon | But I can't spell to save my life | 23:45 |
| Aliks | QuantumG, my take on it is, if the critics can't build their own rocket, don't criticize the people that can | 23:46 |
| Aliks | lol | 23:46 |
| randallagordon | But, but! Armchair science isn't really science! | 23:46 |
| randallagordon | Those who say it can't be done should be careful not to interrupt those who are already doing it. | 23:46 |
| Aliks | I love how people who criticize even things like evolution for example, could not explain the theory in even the most simple outline | 23:47 |
| randallagordon | That would require effort | 23:47 |
| Aliks | yep | 23:47 |
| Aliks | I'm leaning toward the "extermination" method of dealing with them lol | 23:47 |
| QuantumG | nah, see, typically the discussion is about NASA vs SpaceX .. which, of course, is actually more like LockMart vs SpaceX | 23:47 |
| * Aliks nods. | 23:47 | |
| QuantumG | so yes it is unfair.. but it is unfair like pointing out flaws in a Mazda and comparing it to a BMW. | 23:49 |
| kanzure | to protect the world from devistation | 23:49 |
| QuantumG | "But I can spend more to get something better!!!" thanks for that. | 23:49 |
| kanzure | to unite all people within our nation | 23:49 |
| Aliks | right | 23:49 |
| Aliks | yeah people dont understand that cheaper requires some sacrifices | 23:50 |
| QuantumG | and risks | 23:50 |
| Aliks | right | 23:50 |
| Aliks | so QuantumG, whats your specialty? | 23:50 |
| Aliks | I'm a CS/some bio type | 23:50 |
| QuantumG | I'm a software developer for a living. Have interests in rocketry, molecular biology, manufacturing, etc. | 23:51 |
| QuantumG | molecular manufacturing.. | 23:51 |
| randallagordon | seems to be a common theme around here, I take it the majority of us are coders? | 23:51 |
| kanzure | yes | 23:52 |
| QuantumG | some interest in exotic physics | 23:52 |
| Aliks | QuantumG, sounds similar to me | 23:52 |
| kanzure | i invited you all in for a reason :) | 23:52 |
| Trooem | i am a marketer! | 23:52 |
| kanzure | haha | 23:52 |
| kanzure | it's true | 23:52 |
| Trooem | :))))))))) | 23:52 |
| Aliks | I'm sort of deciding to specialize on a couple of areas though... I dont want to know everything about everything but take so long to do it that I die before I can accomplish anything | 23:52 |
| randallagordon | Who here is planning on dying? ;) | 23:53 |
| Aliks | not me | 23:53 |
| Aliks | but obviously that requires hard work on all our parts | 23:54 |
| Aliks | I am treating it like a race | 23:54 |
| Aliks | us vs death lol | 23:54 |
| randallagordon | pretty much | 23:54 |
| Aliks | QG, where from | 23:55 |
| Aliks | I think with all the similarities between us all, we might have some projects we could work on cooperatively... any of you guys currently working together on something? | 23:55 |
| Aliks | QG, I assume you've been to nanorex.com? | 23:55 |
| kanzure | Aliks: we're all working on the /topic | 23:56 |
| Aliks | ah I see | 23:56 |
| kanzure | http://designfiles.org/dokuwiki/skdb | 23:56 |
| kanzure | http://openmanufacturing.org/ has the videos, like http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-n39RK4inzg | 23:56 |
| kanzure | it's like apt-get but for hardware :) | 23:56 |
| Aliks | right, I saw your video | 23:57 |
| kanzure | yay | 23:57 |
| Aliks | watched all of them yesterday | 23:57 |
| Aliks | very cool stuff | 23:57 |
| Aliks | I'm especially interested in the Factor-E-Farm thing though | 23:57 |
| kanzure | today i've been writing up some pretty documentation | 23:57 |
| Aliks | but yeah I do like the ideas in general... | 23:57 |
| Aliks | I should show you some of my writing sometime | 23:57 |
| Aliks | from my more political days | 23:57 |
| randallagordon | So would Trooem be the "...marketing guy who knows what we're rambling on about. "? ;) | 23:57 |
| kanzure | uh oh | 23:57 |
| Aliks | this sort of accomplishes by technology what I was pointing out as a problem in our economy | 23:57 |
| kanzure | randallagordon: eh, sort of | 23:58 |
| Aliks | the sort of centralization of knowledge, basic required technology to actually DO anything | 23:58 |
| Aliks | like, you cant just say "ok, opt out of the system.... go live on some land with NOTHING" | 23:58 |
| kanzure | in programming we call this "forking" | 23:58 |
| Aliks | "no technology, it's all patented.. no tools, they're all patented.." | 23:58 |
| Aliks | etc. | 23:58 |
| kanzure | someone needs to punch the living daylights out of me if i don't finish some basic tutorials soon | 23:59 |
| Aliks | ok | 23:59 |
| Aliks | lol | 23:59 |
| kanzure | seriously though, it's been a week | 23:59 |
| kanzure | or more | 23:59 |
| Aliks | kanzure, or you might just try explaining it to somebody (ie. me) and log it | 23:59 |
| Aliks | and then write from that | 23:59 |
| QuantumG | there's something worse than patents | 23:59 |
| kanzure | but you don't have a debian or ubuntu installation | 23:59 |
| QuantumG | national security classification | 23:59 |
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