| --- Day changed Thu Dec 31 2009 | ||
| randallagordon | the chan has been eerily quiet today | 00:04 |
|---|---|---|
| fenn | meep | 00:09 |
| randallagordon | moop | 00:11 |
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| kanzure | hello fenn | 00:14 |
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| genehacker | bladerunner is awesome | 00:31 |
| genehacker | now if we could only make 2019 like bladerunner... | 00:32 |
| genehacker | err... like it as in ubiquitous biological equipment | 00:33 |
| QuantumG | sufficiently vague that any old technology can fill the void described? | 00:35 |
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| genehacker | ??? | 00:40 |
| QuantumG | bladerunner never described exactly what the replicants were | 00:47 |
| genehacker | eyes cooled in liquid nitrogen? | 00:56 |
| genehacker | hmmm.... | 00:58 |
| genehacker | oh well it's still an awesome movie | 00:59 |
| kanzure | /usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lTKCDLFront hm i wonder how this happened | 01:04 |
| * Trooem KFC - "Finger licken' good." | 01:07 | |
| randallagordon | Anyone who is interested in realtime multimedia should watch this OnLive demo presentation: http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/30/onlive-shows-off-ui-and-iphone-use-in-marathon-tech-demo-video/ | 01:10 |
| randallagordon | These guys just reinvented media from the ground up | 01:11 |
| kanzure | bwahaha it's building | 01:19 |
| genehacker | cloud gaming? | 01:19 |
| kanzure | no, pythonocc-0.3.deb | 01:19 |
| genehacker | but you can't mod cloud games... | 01:19 |
| genehacker | I'm talking to randall | 01:20 |
| randallagordon | cloud EVERYTHING | 01:20 |
| randallagordon | This tech goes far, far beyond games | 01:20 |
| randallagordon | Think sports | 01:20 |
| randallagordon | Shift seemlessly between multiple camera angles | 01:20 |
| genehacker | boring | 01:20 |
| genehacker | I'm not a big fan of the cloud | 01:21 |
| randallagordon | okay, think live hackerspace event streaming :P | 01:21 |
| randallagordon | hehe, you're going to have the future then ;) | 01:21 |
| genehacker | I don't like the cloud future | 01:22 |
| kanzure | clouds come and go | 01:22 |
| genehacker | it's centralized | 01:22 |
| kanzure | only the sky remains | 01:22 |
| genehacker | I hope it gets sunny again | 01:23 |
| randallagordon | only as centralized as you make it | 01:23 |
| randallagordon | run your own cloud | 01:23 |
| randallagordon | the sky has millions of them | 01:23 |
| randallagordon | cloud does *not* mean "they have all my info" if you're running open source cloud apps off your own server | 01:23 |
| kanzure | sorry but if i'm going to be sys adming a million servers, i;'m going to do it my way | 01:23 |
| kanzure | screw your clouds | 01:23 |
| kanzure | *admining | 01:24 |
| kanzure | *i'm | 01:24 |
| genehacker | so basically your locking the content | 01:24 |
| randallagordon | in many ways, *nix users are the ultimate cloud use case already | 01:24 |
| genehacker | I can't modify said content | 01:24 |
| kanzure | randallagordon: stop drinking the kool aid | 01:24 |
| kanzure | and just say what you mean | 01:24 |
| randallagordon | we've been logging in and using machines remotely from the beginning | 01:24 |
| genehacker | I can't get 3d models from the game and 3d print them off | 01:24 |
| kanzure | so what | 01:24 |
| * kanzure goes back to work | 01:24 | |
| genehacker | it's very inflexible, very rigid | 01:24 |
| randallagordon | that's the cloud, my friend | 01:24 |
| kanzure | not according to everyone else | 01:24 |
| randallagordon | then what is it according to everyone else? | 01:25 |
| kanzure | hell if i can understand cloudhype | 01:25 |
| randallagordon | generally it gets summarized as "access to any information, anywhere" | 01:25 |
| kanzure | but it's not ssh | 01:25 |
| randallagordon | SSH *IS* a cloud tech | 01:26 |
| randallagordon | you just haven't ever been told that it is :P | 01:26 |
| randallagordon | You're accessing a machine remotely, "out there", even if it is the next box over on the desk ;) | 01:26 |
| genehacker | wait a second does this stuff run over the wireless networks? | 01:26 |
| kanzure | ugh | 01:26 |
| kanzure | genehacker: stfu | 01:26 |
| genehacker | or does it need to plug into the wall? | 01:26 |
| randallagordon | OnLive? | 01:26 |
| genehacker | yeah whatever it is? | 01:26 |
| kanzure | randallagordon: cloud marketing hype is usually about server virtualization on some one else's network | 01:26 |
| randallagordon | They've got a WiFi client, but cellular is out for now, latency is too high | 01:27 |
| genehacker | what about clear? | 01:27 |
| randallagordon | colocation has useful applications | 01:27 |
| randallagordon | I'll let you know ;) | 01:27 |
| genehacker | so they said the servers need to be within 1000 miles of the player to get decent reaction time | 01:27 |
| randallagordon | By the time I get an OnLive beta invite (submitted for one a couple months back) I'll already have Clear hardware to test | 01:27 |
| randallagordon | The entire US is covered | 01:28 |
| randallagordon | cloud HYPE, is BS, I'll side with you there | 01:28 |
| randallagordon | But the base ideas have been around, and in use by geeks since ARPAnet | 01:28 |
| randallagordon | Getting it out to the laypeople is why you're seeing hype now | 01:28 |
| kanzure | yawn | 01:29 |
| kanzure | are you doing anything right now? | 01:29 |
| randallagordon | The *internet* itself is the cloud | 01:29 |
| genehacker | this means if you're within 1000 miles of a UAV you should be able to control it without 'lag' | 01:29 |
| kanzure | can you please go away? you're clogging up my tubes | 01:29 |
| genehacker | me? | 01:29 |
| kanzure | no | 01:29 |
| genehacker | affirmative | 01:29 |
| randallagordon | Hoorah for learned debate | 01:30 |
| kanzure | wtf are you debating? | 01:30 |
| kanzure | whether or not i believe in hype? | 01:30 |
| kanzure | who cares? | 01:30 |
| randallagordon | No, I don't believe in the hype either | 01:30 |
| genehacker | I'm worried if the laypeople adopt it | 01:30 |
| randallagordon | I'm simply explaining that the hype doesn't matter, it isn't the point | 01:30 |
| kanzure | yes it is | 01:30 |
| genehacker | it's just a future I don't want to see | 01:30 |
| kanzure | these technologies already exist | 01:31 |
| randallagordon | ...which is precisely my point | 01:31 |
| kanzure | so the hype is just extra overhead | 01:31 |
| randallagordon | the cloud is here, already | 01:31 |
| kanzure | so go away and stop talking | 01:31 |
| * randallagordon thinks kanzure was right about being an ass | 01:31 | |
| * kanzure nods | 01:31 | |
| kanzure | unless you have a legitimate reason to convert us to cloudism? | 01:31 |
| randallagordon | I don't have to convert, you already use the tech daily | 01:32 |
| kanzure | i still don't know why we're talking then | 01:32 |
| genehacker | scorch the sky to thwart the machines? | 01:32 |
| kanzure | i'm honestly confused | 01:32 |
| randallagordon | If you're focusing on the hype, you're focusing on the wrong thing | 01:32 |
| genehacker | I don't care | 01:32 |
| kanzure | randallagordon: the solution is to stop talking about clouds, tehn | 01:32 |
| kanzure | *then | 01:32 |
| randallagordon | okay, so I'll type the longer term constantly, network computing | 01:33 |
| randallagordon | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_computing | 01:33 |
| * Trooem thinks everyone in this channel's souls are recycled aliens from a different planet. | 01:45 | |
| kanzure | taking too long to compile | 01:46 |
| kanzure | wah | 01:46 |
| * randallagordon could get behind that | 01:46 | |
| genehacker | play a game | 01:46 |
| genehacker | derive an equation | 01:46 |
| genehacker | I can give you one to solve that should keep you occupied for quite a while | 01:47 |
| genehacker | if you solve it by hand | 01:47 |
| kanzure | nah i think i'll sleep | 01:48 |
| kanzure | randallagordon: sorry about your clouds :( | 01:48 |
| randallagordon | I'm not sorry :P | 01:48 |
| randallagordon | I like my clouds | 01:48 |
| randallagordon | I like being able to use my apps from any web capable device | 01:48 |
| randallagordon | I do share the sentiment that I don't enjoy using *other vendor's* apps | 01:49 |
| genehacker | I like having lot's of processing power on my person | 01:49 |
| randallagordon | I'd love to see OSI versions of the current host of popular apps | 01:49 |
| randallagordon | genehacker, as do I, but that isn't likely to be fiesable for quite some time | 01:49 |
| genehacker | I carry a laptop | 01:50 |
| QuantumG | I haven't seen a single person say OnLive can work :) | 01:50 |
| QuantumG | I *love* to troll people about this. | 01:50 |
| randallagordon | 5 years or so, we'll really see some high horsepower stuff, combined with awesome battery advances and wireless power | 01:50 |
| randallagordon | lol, I was entirely skeptical until I started reading up on how they pulled it off | 01:50 |
| randallagordon | it is freakin' ingenious | 01:51 |
| genehacker | maybe not if people switch over to the cloud | 01:51 |
| genehacker | then the need for such things will be decreased | 01:51 |
| genehacker | maybe | 01:51 |
| * Trooem thinks ego should be abandoned for effective communication and progress. | 01:52 | |
| * randallagordon agrees | 01:52 | |
| QuantumG | press X on the controller -> send a packet -> travel over the wire -> receive the packet -> update the game -> render the frame -> packet it up -> send it back -> travel over the wire -> receive the packet -> decompress it -> display it... all in 80 ms | 01:52 |
| randallagordon | They're using one-off hardware designs for the video compression | 01:52 |
| randallagordon | FPGAs are the future, baby | 01:53 |
| randallagordon | Software defined hardware | 01:53 |
| QuantumG | why 80ms? Maybe you don't need that small a roundtrip.. but they *claim* 80ms roundtrip | 01:53 |
| randallagordon | They've got a 150ms WiFi iPhone client | 01:53 |
| randallagordon | It just improves the experience | 01:53 |
| * Trooem ................................................................................................................. | 01:54 | |
| Trooem | randalla, when someone says sorry, you say sorry too~ | 01:54 |
| randallagordon | The part I love is the video compression tech | 01:54 |
| randallagordon | Trooem, eh? | 01:55 |
| * Trooem is really a demigod. | 01:56 | |
| QuantumG | I ping my ISP and get: 164ms 35ms 566ms 63ms 34ms 219ms 34ms 39ms 439ms 33ms 34ms 186ms | 01:56 |
| randallagordon | That's...jumpy | 01:57 |
| QuantumG | indeed. So I dare say that your experience with OnLive will depend on how incredibly crap your connection is, like mine :) | 01:57 |
| * Trooem has no clue what he's saying. Live happy and fulfilled everyone~!!!!!!! | 01:57 | |
| randallagordon | Very much so | 01:57 |
| randallagordon | Watch that video I linked to | 01:57 |
| randallagordon | They explain the tech quite in depth | 01:58 |
| Trooem | i'm going to eat a piece of pizza :)))))))))))))))))))))))))) | 01:58 |
| QuantumG | oh I am.. and it looks awesome | 01:58 |
| randallagordon | I'm seriously floored thinking about all the different applications this has, far beyond games | 01:58 |
| randallagordon | media in general | 01:58 |
| randallagordon | They have a gigapixel computing platform in their hands | 01:58 |
| randallagordon | heh, I just pinged my host, Oregon to Toronto, 117, 119, 110, 109, 132, 110, 128, 115, 113, 126 | 01:59 |
| randallagordon | About...I think 11 mins in, they talk about their network tech | 02:00 |
| randallagordon | intelligent routing :) | 02:00 |
| randallagordon | The only thing I *don't* like, is the idea of how much stuff I'm sure they now hold patents on...pray they play nice | 02:00 |
| QuantumG | It's really gunna require unheard of vertical integration .. which explains why they're taking so long to ship. | 02:01 |
| randallagordon | Kind of | 02:01 |
| randallagordon | The video compression is the key...and that gets handled in spades by their hardware | 02:01 |
| QuantumG | the decompression must be insanely cheap | 02:02 |
| randallagordon | They take VLSI to the max | 02:02 |
| QuantumG | no.. you're not getting me.. their decompression requires no special hardware | 02:03 |
| randallagordon | It sounds like it scales well to the native resolution of most devices already on the market | 02:03 |
| randallagordon | No, that I get | 02:03 |
| randallagordon | The magic happens in their hardware, essentially using psychovisual advances tossed into hardware to throw out everything your brain ignores in a video sequence anyways | 02:04 |
| randallagordon | The pushing two different quality video streams to handle latency | 02:04 |
| randallagordon | A lower quality stream for high motion, low detail | 02:05 |
| randallagordon | A higher quality, low framerate stream for low motion, high detail | 02:05 |
| randallagordon | s/The/Then/ | 02:06 |
| QuantumG | ya know what will be the ultimate irony? | 02:07 |
| QuantumG | if they solve all the technical issues, manage to ship this thing, and then completely fail on the business model. | 02:07 |
| randallagordon | Yep | 02:08 |
| randallagordon | But, it looks like they've got that down too | 02:08 |
| randallagordon | They're making this a social thing...Xbox Live to the next level | 02:08 |
| randallagordon | It is ready for multiplayer out of the box, even local splitscreen | 02:09 |
| randallagordon | And the spectating...that's amazing | 02:09 |
| QuantumG | if they make it all-you-can-eat they'll do well | 02:09 |
| randallagordon | Eventually I'd imagine they will—or someone else *will* beat them to it | 02:09 |
| QuantumG | if they try to do a subscription+pay-for-access-to-each-game they'll fail | 02:10 |
| randallagordon | But for the time being, they're being smart from the business perspective, they've simply made it more lucrative for the incumbent game developers to distribute their software | 02:10 |
| randallagordon | Doubtful | 02:10 |
| randallagordon | Direct downloads are working amazingly well for MS and Sony | 02:10 |
| randallagordon | Discs are dead | 02:10 |
| randallagordon | But, near the end of the video they talk about a very blended approach | 02:11 |
| randallagordon | Developers have the control, it sounds like | 02:11 |
| randallagordon | But, a base subscription is inevitable | 02:11 |
| randallagordon | They've gotta pay for your license "seat" and, of course, the hardware leases | 02:11 |
| QuantumG | I wonder when they will ship.... cause it'll take at least 12 months for them you get out of the US | 02:13 |
| randallagordon | The demo talks about freely available games, ad supported and virtual goods models, as well as buying a virtual license...which I'd totally be down for, given that I can *also* download the binary to my own box | 02:13 |
| QuantumG | assuming success | 02:13 |
| randallagordon | They've already got the US covered, it appears...since they're leasing the hardware, they can move *very* fast to expand out to other markets | 02:14 |
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| QuantumG | they'll have to get the ISPs up to snuff first dude | 02:14 |
| randallagordon | I'd say the hardest part would be getting the local telecoms to play nice | 02:14 |
| QuantumG | as I just said, my connection is typical | 02:14 |
| randallagordon | Where are you? | 02:15 |
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| QuantumG | actually, my connection is really good for this area :) | 02:15 |
| randallagordon | I get pissy if my latency is above 35ms :P | 02:15 |
| QuantumG | cable here is horrid | 02:15 |
| randallagordon | (for gaming) | 02:15 |
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| QuantumG | and I'm on dsl | 02:15 |
| QuantumG | Australia | 02:15 |
| randallagordon | Ahhh | 02:15 |
| randallagordon | Unfortunately Oz is notorious...you're screwed ;) | 02:16 |
| randallagordon | But throughout many other nations, this service is readymade | 02:16 |
| QuantumG | I imagine it could be done here.. | 02:16 |
| randallagordon | Oh, certainly | 02:17 |
| QuantumG | "Instant demos, try before you buy." | 02:17 |
| QuantumG | right.. so they're screwed | 02:17 |
| randallagordon | I don't think they're going to be the problem, the incumbent developers will be | 02:17 |
| QuantumG | it's subscription+pay-for-every-game-separately | 02:17 |
| randallagordon | No, keep listening | 02:18 |
| randallagordon | They go on to talk about much more | 02:18 |
| randallagordon | Other models | 02:18 |
| QuantumG | I'm sure there are other models | 02:18 |
| QuantumG | but that model will be what they are pushing for A+ titles | 02:18 |
| randallagordon | They put the payment model in the hands of the devs | 02:18 |
| randallagordon | Of course...they've gotta make sure the devs are happy, or they have nothing, period | 02:18 |
| QuantumG | yep | 02:19 |
| randallagordon | But this lets them put out a "next gen" console that puts everyone else to shame for, say $250 that could handle 1080p60 | 02:19 |
| randallagordon | Probably even less | 02:19 |
| QuantumG | asian dude trying to say "lossless" | 02:20 |
| QuantumG | saying it like "loose-less" .. facepalm | 02:20 |
| randallagordon | Since they're already using VLSI designs, I'm sure they'll be quick to apply it to their consoles as well | 02:20 |
| randallagordon | hehe, indeed | 02:21 |
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| randallagordon | They're also a readymade IPTV outlet | 02:23 |
| randallagordon | I can almost garuntee a Netflix partnership...the ability to flip between streams on the fly... | 02:23 |
| QuantumG | yeah, on-demand anything | 02:23 |
| randallagordon | I want to use it to live broadcast rally :D | 02:25 |
| randallagordon | Using 360 degree cameras, HMDs and head-tracking you could let the viewer look around as though they're standing on the spot | 02:26 |
| QuantumG | have you seen those 360 degree video cameras? | 02:29 |
| randallagordon | Which one? ;) | 02:29 |
| randallagordon | I've looked at how to make one myself | 02:29 |
| QuantumG | there was some awesome demos on | 02:29 |
| randallagordon | using an array | 02:30 |
| randallagordon | Check out the video I embedded in this post: http://randallagordon.com/blog/2009/02/28/reality-the-future-of-live-content-delivery-and-emergency-response/ | 02:31 |
| QuantumG | http://karagos.com/post/114229575/yellow-bird | 02:31 |
| QuantumG | check that out | 02:31 |
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| randallagordon | Awesome | 02:31 |
| randallagordon | So someone is already on it :) | 02:31 |
| QuantumG | one camera, intricate lenses | 02:32 |
| randallagordon | Just need the HMDs/head tracking to go with it | 02:32 |
| randallagordon | Don't need specialty optics, just awesome software ;) | 02:32 |
| randallagordon | As per the video I embedded in that post | 02:32 |
| QuantumG | well, the point of the optics is to get 6 sides of the cube at the one camera | 02:33 |
| randallagordon | Indeed | 02:33 |
| randallagordon | But, really, you don't need it | 02:33 |
| QuantumG | hmm.. I wonder how open the dev will be? :) | 02:33 |
| randallagordon | software can do the corrections with hardware we've got now, to drop the cost | 02:33 |
| QuantumG | they're like "we'll support indie developers" | 02:34 |
| randallagordon | Just build one using Eleph | 02:34 |
| QuantumG | how indie is indie? :) | 02:34 |
| randallagordon | I think I spelled that wrong | 02:34 |
| randallagordon | wow, yeah, big time, Elphel | 02:35 |
| QuantumG | Elphel? | 02:35 |
| randallagordon | Open source network camera | 02:36 |
| randallagordon | As I recall you can build one for ~$500 | 02:36 |
| randallagordon | Kits start around $800 | 02:36 |
| QuantumG | fun | 02:37 |
| randallagordon | Uses an FPGA, too, so I'd imagine you could do good amount of DSP processing before it hits the network | 02:37 |
| QuantumG | I presume that an optics engineer could build an optics box that you could shove a crappy webcam into and get that kind of 6-faces-of-the-cube-to-one-frame result | 02:38 |
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| randallagordon | I'd presume so, too, but it seems like insane overkill | 02:38 |
| randallagordon | I'd imagine just having more cameras would be cheaper than the optics ;) | 02:38 |
| QuantumG | huh? | 02:38 |
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| QuantumG | ya kidding right? | 02:38 |
| randallagordon | Well, I suppose with a webcam you don't need anything fancy | 02:39 |
| randallagordon | You're not going to get quality to speak of to begin with, heh | 02:39 |
| randallagordon | ...although some newer models are starting to get impressive | 02:39 |
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| QuantumG | also, taking a single camera feed and processing it will always be easier than taking 6 camera feeds. | 02:40 |
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| randallagordon | I'm a photographer who's nuts about quality glass, so I tend to take optics to another level ;) | 02:40 |
| randallagordon | From that standpoint, yes | 02:40 |
| randallagordon | But are you going to have enough quality leftover to be worthwhile? | 02:40 |
| randallagordon | The Elphel is built to swap out sensors...right now I think they offer a 3MP and 5MP option | 02:41 |
| QuantumG | it is funny though.. whenever you see some sci-fi show with a flying camera ball it's modelled after the concept of a floating eyeball that is only looking in one direction at a time. | 02:41 |
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| randallagordon | With a sensor like that, you could probably do quite well with such an optics setup...but with the 640x480 that is common on all but the most high end webcams, you're not left with much | 02:42 |
| randallagordon | hehe, indeed | 02:42 |
| QuantumG | are there any head tracking systems for HMDs that do more than pitch/roll/yaw? | 02:43 |
| QuantumG | .. namely pan | 02:43 |
| randallagordon | But, most sci-fi producers aren't geeky enough to know what's possible quite yet... | 02:43 |
| randallagordon | I've never looked at what's available, actually...always just been ready to make something custom, heh | 02:43 |
| QuantumG | I have a HMD.. it doesn't do pan | 02:43 |
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| QuantumG | and you miss it when you're playing an fps | 02:46 |
| randallagordon | what HMD do you have? | 02:46 |
| randallagordon | namely that sounds like a software thing, I'd like to look at the specs | 02:47 |
| randallagordon | The game would need to support proper headtracking | 02:47 |
| QuantumG | I know exactly what gets sent down the wire | 02:47 |
| QuantumG | pitch/roll/yaw | 02:48 |
| QuantumG | http://www.vuzix.com/iwear/products_vr920.html | 02:48 |
| randallagordon | In theory that should cover all movement from a fixed point? | 02:49 |
| QuantumG | yeah.. raw acceleration vectors would have been better | 02:49 |
| randallagordon | "To experience 3D graphics and/or head-tracking, the software must either contain support for these features or it must be provided through an application such as the Vuzix iWear Monitor that comes with the VR920 virtual reality display system." | 02:49 |
| QuantumG | do the pitch/roll/raw calculations in software, and you can do positional calculations too | 02:49 |
| randallagordon | Indeed, 'tis the game's "fault" | 02:50 |
| QuantumG | no its not | 02:50 |
| QuantumG | listen | 02:50 |
| QuantumG | I actually added support for the 920's head tracking to all the games I used it in | 02:50 |
| randallagordon | for proper head tracking you need a magnetometer, not just an accelerometer... | 02:50 |
| QuantumG | and it does.. the problem is, it does all the translation in hardware.. and only delivers pitch/roll/yaw down the wire | 02:51 |
| QuantumG | head movement is more than just pitch/roll/yaw | 02:51 |
| randallagordon | Ahhh, I got what you're meaning now | 02:52 |
| randallagordon | It is pitch/roll/yaw+orentation | 02:52 |
| randallagordon | orientation, even | 02:52 |
| QuantumG | more like origin :) | 02:52 |
| randallagordon | indeed :) | 02:53 |
| QuantumG | having origin tracking would make the experience much more immersive cause you could dodge rockets flying at your head | 02:54 |
| randallagordon | bingo | 02:54 |
| QuantumG | then there's eye tracking | 02:54 |
| randallagordon | I've been wanting to toy with head tracking for quite some time | 02:54 |
| QuantumG | but that's just being picky :) | 02:55 |
| randallagordon | hehe, yeah, that can be overcome with sufficiently large displays | 02:55 |
| QuantumG | oh yeah, that's another thing I've always wondered about | 02:55 |
| randallagordon | oooh, but that's an interesting thing I hadn't thought to incorporate with AR systems that use (yet to be invented) contact lens displays | 02:56 |
| randallagordon | eyetracking becomes highly important there | 02:56 |
| QuantumG | if you had a big screen display on a pan (and a little tilt) mechanism that was doing head tracking, would it provide a more interesting experience | 02:56 |
| QuantumG | dodge your head right and the display dodges with you, and the viewport updates to your new position. | 02:57 |
| randallagordon | hrmmm...to my thinking, I'd stick with and HMD using high-res LCDs paired with optics to correct for edge distortion | 02:58 |
| QuantumG | the display moves so that the middle of your head is always in the middle of the display | 02:58 |
| randallagordon | but that's a great idea for retrofits | 02:59 |
| QuantumG | yeah, if you have infinite budget | 02:59 |
| randallagordon | I'd imagine most of it could be accounted for using flexible OLED screens | 02:59 |
| randallagordon | "super widescreen", if you will | 02:59 |
| randallagordon | of course, that opens up a whole other aspect of having the hardware to push the pixels | 03:00 |
| QuantumG | hehe, of course now I'm imagining 3 robots with a really big LCD display help up to head height chasing you around a big room | 03:00 |
| randallagordon | lol nice | 03:00 |
| QuantumG | those "borderless" displays they're trying to flog now | 03:00 |
| randallagordon | hehe, current commercial OLED offerings are nothing to raise an eyebrow at... | 03:01 |
| QuantumG | http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/biz/2009/12/130_58058.html | 03:01 |
| QuantumG | http://www.robotshop.ca/Images/rblyn63_robot_arm.jpg | 03:02 |
| randallagordon | Nice...borderless is sexy, then you can build awesome arrays | 03:02 |
| randallagordon | http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2009/02/you-can-check-o/ | 03:02 |
| QuantumG | that robot needs to be capable of omnidirectional motion | 03:03 |
| randallagordon | Heh, the "artists rendition" in that Wired article is a bit...over the top | 03:03 |
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| QuantumG | and it would have to move fast! | 03:04 |
| QuantumG | probably easier to just have 8 of them | 03:04 |
| QuantumG | surrounding you | 03:04 |
| QuantumG | but now I'm just being silly :) | 03:05 |
| randallagordon | hehe, hey, there's no reason high tech can't be silly ;) | 03:07 |
| QuantumG | I think "japanese" is the technical term | 03:07 |
| randallagordon | might not be feasible, but at least it is fun and rewarding, right? kludges rock ;) | 03:08 |
| randallagordon | Just make sure they don't fall into the uncanny valley and we're all good | 03:08 |
| QuantumG | just make the characters blue and we'll be fine | 03:08 |
| randallagordon | Actually, I think that migh add to the fun...make them vaguely humanoid ;) | 03:08 |
| QuantumG | fun, took me 3 hours to verify that a "fix" I checked in didn't actually fix the problem. | 03:13 |
| QuantumG | and 30 seconds more to figure out that I'm an idiot. | 03:13 |
| randallagordon | oh? | 03:13 |
| QuantumG | software development is so much fun | 03:13 |
| randallagordon | can be, can be | 03:14 |
| QuantumG | http://www.mychessblog.com/one-simple-mental-exercise-to-improve-your-mind-power/ | 03:17 |
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| Utopiah | (HAR 2009: Electrical enginering with free/libre open source software 1/6 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTd3D839ops gEDA, PCB, Emdebian, positive vs negative vs proprietary vs floss standoff) | 06:47 |
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| kanzure | does anyone melt down the PLA from reprapped plastic models? | 11:14 |
| kanzure | er after it is reprapped | 11:34 |
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| kristianpaul | kanzure: yes | 12:07 |
| kristianpaul | why? | 12:07 |
| kristianpaul | btw do yo know about and free/open source satellite design kid off CubeSat kanzure ? | 12:08 |
| ybit | kristianpaul: i don't, link? | 12:14 |
| kristianpaul | i wish | 12:15 |
| kristianpaul | i just was reading CubeSat | 12:15 |
| ybit | you don't have a link? | 12:15 |
| ybit | is this not it? http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:Smrvt4t-PgQJ:opensat.cc/blog/%3Fpage_id%3D36+http://opensat.cc/blog/%3Fpage_id%3D36&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a | 12:15 |
| kristianpaul | ybit: great :) | 12:17 |
| * kristianpaul reading | 12:17 | |
| * ybit finally sits down to finish the .deb | 12:19 | |
| kristianpaul | ybit: .deb of kanzure project? | 12:19 |
| ybit | kristianpaul: the kanzure project? :P | 12:56 |
| ybit | yes, i'm packaging kanzure into a .deb | 12:56 |
| ybit | oh great, it was approved, kristianpaul: apt-get install kanzure | 12:58 |
| kanzure | ouch! | 13:05 |
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| kanzure | stop installing me :( | 13:05 |
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| Kuro_ | I've forgotten, have you seen this before? http://www.physorg.com/news180620740.html | 13:09 |
| ybit | kanzure: i noticed that you were working on the .deb earlier, did you ever get around to editing the watch file? | 13:10 |
| ybit | i don't want to mess with it | 13:10 |
| kanzure | http://ignite.oreilly.com/austin/ | 13:26 |
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| kanzure | john griessen, jerry rutherford, who else wanted to meet up with me before going to les' shop? | 13:32 |
| kanzure | oh, and jason | 13:35 |
| kanzure | jason wants to help put together "Gnusha's 3D Print Shop" | 13:36 |
| kristianpaul | excuses i mean skdb ybit :) | 13:45 |
| kristianpaul | kanzure: Gnusha's 3D Print Shop ? link? :D | 13:47 |
| kanzure | not yet :) | 13:48 |
| kristianpaul | :) | 13:48 |
| kristianpaul | kanzure: http://www.physorg.com/news181376289.html ? true? | 13:51 |
| kristianpaul | Kuro_: ^ | 13:53 |
| kristianpaul | sorry kanzure | 13:53 |
| Kuro_ | I've heard about it from other sources, but I haven't seen confirmation yet. | 13:57 |
| kanzure | cool jason can introduce me to richard garriott | 14:02 |
| * kanzure uploads the .deb | 14:02 | |
| Kuro_ | Well, according to this article from almost two years ago, http://www.spacedaily.com/reports/Russia_warns_of_asteroid_threat_999.html , the Russians were wary about that asteroid, so it could be true. | 14:09 |
| * kristianpaul click | 14:20 | |
| kristianpaul | ybit: great idea about the opensat, how do u get the link or heard about it? | 14:21 |
| kanzure | my website will be down for a few minutes here | 14:33 |
| kanzure | slow internet connection | 14:34 |
| kristianpaul | thesnark: http://www.cubesatkit.com/ | 14:37 |
| kristianpaul | no here | 14:37 |
| * kristianpaul dawn typo tday | 14:38 | |
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| kanzure | http://designfiles.org/~bryan/pythonocc-0.3.deb | 14:57 |
| kanzure | 108 MB | 14:57 |
| kristianpaul | should i try ? ... | 15:08 |
| klord | what it is? | 15:10 |
| kanzure | pythonOCC is http://pythonocc.org/ | 15:10 |
| kanzure | opencascade api accessible in python | 15:10 |
| kanzure | skdb requires it | 15:10 |
| kristianpaul | yup | 15:11 |
| * kristianpaul remenber that nevers find what .py is skdb | 15:11 | |
| klord | ah, cool. | 15:11 |
| kanzure | what? | 15:11 |
| kanzure | kristianpaul: you never make any sense to me :( | 15:11 |
| kristianpaul | hehe | 15:12 |
| kristianpaul | kanzure: i need lean english first :p | 15:12 |
| kristianpaul | learn* | 15:12 |
| kanzure | what language do you speak? | 15:13 |
| kanzure | maybe you should just try to say it in your native tongue | 15:13 |
| kristianpaul | spanish | 15:13 |
| kanzure | yes some of us should be able to help you | 15:13 |
| kristianpaul | i just was trying to say that i never found the main .py file ok skdb | 15:14 |
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| kristianpaul | or s setup.py file | 15:14 |
| kristianpaul | i confess i dont read the doc at all | 15:14 |
| klord | wonder how rtfm translates into spanish | 15:16 |
| klord | just kidding :) | 15:16 |
| kristianpaul | i know | 15:17 |
| kristianpaul | is just i'm used to find the file that executes all | 15:17 |
| kristianpaul | not all, just the main file | 15:18 |
| kanzure | skdb is a python module | 15:18 |
| * kristianpaul guessing was not understood :( | 15:18 | |
| kanzure | so you go into python and type "import skdb" | 15:19 |
| kristianpaul | error | 15:19 |
| kanzure | what's the error? | 15:19 |
| kanzure | did you install skdb? | 15:19 |
| kristianpaul | ImportError: No module named skdb | 15:19 |
| kanzure | yeah you didn't install it | 15:19 |
| kristianpaul | not sure | 15:19 |
| kristianpaul | wait | 15:19 |
| kristianpaul | kanzure: but there is not setup.py file and this http://pastebin.ca/1733436 dint help at all | 15:22 |
| kanzure | yes there's no setup.py | 15:30 |
| kanzure | why didn't that help | 15:31 |
| * kristianpaul read dfm again | 15:31 | |
| kanzure | what? | 15:33 |
| kanzure | se hable espanol por favor | 15:34 |
| kristianpaul | kanzure: do you spealk spanish? | 15:35 |
| kristianpaul | speak* | 15:35 |
| kristianpaul | nevermind i'll findout the way my selk and the fuck.. manual ;) | 15:36 |
| kristianpaul | s/selk/self | 15:36 |
| * kristianpaul reads tfm | 15:37 | |
| kanzure | yes i speak spanish | 15:41 |
| kristianpaul | as i write english :p? | 15:42 |
| kristianpaul | kanzure: look i got this error trying install pyocc http://pastebin.ca/1733452 | 15:43 |
| kanzure | kristianpaul: i read spanish as you read english | 15:44 |
| kanzure | kristianpaul: can you edit the file and modify line 144 to put quotes around "-control" in there? | 15:44 |
| kanzure | ybit: this is your fault, btw | 15:44 |
| kristianpaul | sure give a minute | 15:45 |
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| kristianpaul | kanzure: wich file? | 15:51 |
| kanzure | src/setup.py | 15:58 |
| kanzure | or you can just use the .deb | 15:58 |
| kristianpaul | i tried that, and dont install, and i prefer compile this things first | 15:59 |
| kanzure | what happened to it? | 15:59 |
| kristianpaul | kanzure: in line 144 thre is not such -control | 16:00 |
| kanzure | i just told you how to fix it | 16:00 |
| kanzure | try the .deb | 16:00 |
| kristianpaul | http://pastebin.ca/1733465 | 16:01 |
| kristianpaul | kanzure: error^ | 16:01 |
| kanzure | why are you using amd64 | 16:01 |
| kristianpaul | yup | 16:02 |
| kristianpaul | cause i have and amd64 processir | 16:02 |
| kristianpaul | processor* | 16:02 |
| kristianpaul | i also have mipsel btw | 16:02 |
| kristianpaul | kanzure: there is no amd64 support for pyocc so then for skdb? | 16:03 |
| kanzure | there is amd64 support for pythonocc | 16:04 |
| kanzure | but not in the .deb yet | 16:04 |
| kanzure | you'll have to fix src/setup.py by surrounding -control in quotes "-control" and run it again | 16:04 |
| kristianpaul | well if you give me the debsource i can build it | 16:04 |
| kristianpaul | ah ok | 16:04 |
| kristianpaul | kanzure: there is no control word inside setup.py | 16:05 |
| kanzure | sorry i meant "classic" | 16:05 |
| kristianpaul | arggg !! :D | 16:06 |
| kristianpaul | kanzure: i dont undestand you al the time :( | 16:06 |
| * kristianpaul vim +144 wrapper/environment.py not setup.py !! | 16:08 | |
| kanzure | ack | 16:08 |
| kristianpaul | kanzure: http://pastebin.ca/1733474 | 16:10 |
| kristianpaul | so is bad to be amd64 ? :p | 16:10 |
| kanzure | oh | 16:12 |
| kanzure | you have to edit environment.py | 16:12 |
| kanzure | technologiclee4: this is the same thing you had to do | 16:12 |
| kanzure | um, i mention it on the wiki | 16:12 |
| kanzure | http://designfiles.org/dokuwiki/pythonocc | 16:13 |
| kanzure | search for x86 on there | 16:13 |
| kristianpaul | k | 16:13 |
| kanzure | hm nothing | 16:17 |
| kanzure | well anyway there's something you have to edit in environment.py | 16:17 |
| kanzure | in particular there's this line that sets the architecture to the result of a python call | 16:17 |
| kanzure | and that's not what it should be.. for amd64, you should set it to k8 | 16:17 |
| kristianpaul | ok | 16:18 |
| kristianpaul | yes nothing called x86 | 16:18 |
| kanzure | ok one sec | 16:18 |
| kanzure | search for march in environment.py | 16:19 |
| kanzure | ECA = ['-O0','-march=%s'%platform_machine] | 16:19 |
| kanzure | change that to | 16:19 |
| kanzure | ECA = ['-O0','-march=k8'] | 16:19 |
| kristianpaul | k | 16:19 |
| * kristianpaul guess i now have to wait it compiles | 16:21 | |
| kristianpaul | thanks kanzure :) | 16:21 |
| kanzure | did that work | 16:22 |
| kristianpaul | seems it did, so far.. | 16:22 |
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| kanzure | i'm still installing a fresh copy of ubuntu | 16:39 |
| kristianpaul | wich version? | 16:40 |
| kanzure | 9.10 | 16:40 |
| kanzure | just testing pythonocc.deb | 16:40 |
| kristianpaul | try trisquel :) | 16:41 |
| kanzure | why | 16:41 |
| kristianpaul | is free :) | 16:41 |
| kristianpaul | libre* | 16:41 |
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| kristianpaul | seeems compiling pyocc will be done the next year :/ | 17:17 |
| kristianpaul | finally ! | 17:22 |
| kristianpaul | kanzure: http://pastebin.ca/1733533 | 17:26 |
| kristianpaul | also | 17:26 |
| kristianpaul | >>> import skdb | 17:27 |
| kristianpaul | You probably don't have pythonOCC installed correctly | 17:27 |
| kristianpaul | but the other steps on pyocc install worked well | 17:27 |
| kanzure | did you do python setup.py install after you ran python setup.py build ? | 17:30 |
| kristianpaul | i did: time sudo python setup.py install -NO_GEOM | 17:34 |
| kristianpaul | as the fm said | 17:34 |
| kanzure | hrm | 17:34 |
| kanzure | did that work? | 17:34 |
| kristianpaul | running install_egg_info | 17:35 |
| kristianpaul | Writing /usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/pythonOCC-0.3.egg-info | 17:35 |
| kristianpaul | Creating __init__.py script. | 17:35 |
| kristianpaul | __init__.py script crea | 17:35 |
| kristianpaul | ted. | 17:35 |
| kristianpaul | yes i guess kanzure | 17:38 |
| kristianpaul | how can i test pyocc | 17:38 |
| kristianpaul | ? | 17:38 |
| kristianpaul | i ran /src/samples/Level1/Animation$ python animation.py | 17:39 |
| kristianpaul | is okay | 17:39 |
| kristianpaul | yay ! | 17:40 |
| kanzure | that's one way. another way is to go to skdb and run paths.py | 17:42 |
| kristianpaul | ah, wait | 17:45 |
| kristianpaul | kanzure: a pyocc example rise on my screen | 17:48 |
| kristianpaul | the this error http://pastebin.ca/1733562 | 17:48 |
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| kanzure | kristianpaul: go to skdb/clients | 17:52 |
| kanzure | and run python skdb-get.py lego | 17:52 |
| kanzure | python skdb-get.py screw | 17:52 |
| kristianpaul | you must be root | 17:56 |
| kristianpaul | ?? | 17:56 |
| kristianpaul | why kanzure ? | 17:56 |
| kristianpaul | kanzure: http://pastebin.ca/1733577 | 17:59 |
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| -!- genehacker [n=noko@pool-173-57-48-104.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #hplusroadmap | 23:21 | |
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