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| genehacker | cabin fever Trooem? | 00:30 |
|---|---|---|
| bkero | Yarr | 02:11 |
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| kanzure | http://www.reddit.com/r/cogsci/comments/akkg3/are_wireheads_happy/ | 09:59 |
| kanzure | http://biopunk.hu/ | 10:00 |
| kanzure | picks from les' shop yesterday: http://papertygre.livejournal.com/348952.html | 10:02 |
| kanzure | swince when are there going to be classrooms? | 10:03 |
| kanzure | and i thought les told us not to post photos? | 10:03 |
| kanzure | s/picks/photos/ | 10:03 |
| kanzure | http://google.com/search?q="false+rape+industry" | 10:05 |
| kanzure | can anyone convince me that EEG is not lame? | 10:07 |
| Utopiah | no | 10:09 |
| kanzure | :) | 10:10 |
| kristianpaul | are you smoke? | 10:14 |
| kanzure | ? | 10:25 |
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| kanzure | kristianpaul: someone made a .rpm of pythonocc-0.4 a few days ago, i'm sure "alien" can convert it to .deb | 10:31 |
| kristianpaul | kanzure: yes that is supposed to do | 10:31 |
| kanzure | fenn: have you seen the pythonocc parametric modeling video on youtube? | 10:34 |
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| kanzure | hey Noahj | 10:35 |
| kanzure | anything new? | 10:35 |
| Noahj | I'm setting up and learning how to use Bazaar | 10:36 |
| Noahj | It seems pretty standard | 10:36 |
| kanzure | the revision control repository? | 10:36 |
| Noahj | Yep | 10:36 |
| kanzure | please be sure to also check out git | 10:36 |
| Noahj | Git is nice, I've used it, it doesn't have sftp support though | 10:37 |
| kanzure | it doesn't? wtf | 10:37 |
| Noahj | Wait, I might be BSing | 10:37 |
| Noahj | Nope, you can't push with sftp | 10:37 |
| kanzure | odd | 10:37 |
| Noahj | Also, the aironet 1110 router doesn't support openWRT | 10:38 |
| Noahj | Which is really sad, since we have a pile of them and they look like they'd be good for fabfi | 10:39 |
| Noahj | Oh well | 10:39 |
| parolang | I did some bzr, they have some good docs on their site. | 10:39 |
| parolang | I'm learning git now. Probably good idea to learn both. | 10:39 |
| kanzure | yeah, hg and bzr seem to have a lot in common | 10:40 |
| parolang | Haven't done anything with hg. | 10:40 |
| kanzure | http://hatta-wiki.org/ uses hg and is worth checking out (distributed revision control wiki in python) | 10:41 |
| parolang | I think the other ones besides git and bzr will eventually move to these two. | 10:41 |
| kanzure | hg has lots of plugins for interoperability with other repositories | 10:41 |
| Noahj | Mercurial looks like a good version control system | 10:41 |
| kanzure | although it failed when i tried to convert skdb.git -> skdb.hg | 10:41 |
| Noahj | Right, hg | 10:41 |
| kanzure | (apparently skdb.git has some weird git peculiarities deep in its history) | 10:41 |
| Noahj | hg also has ssh support | 10:42 |
| parolang | Hatta is a good idea :) | 10:42 |
| * kanzure nods | 10:42 | |
| kanzure | but somewhat poorly implemented | 10:42 |
| kanzure | i want to do hatta-wiki in cherrpy and anyvcs so that you can plug-and-play different dcvs backends | 10:42 |
| kanzure | er | 10:42 |
| kanzure | *dvcs | 10:43 |
| parolang | I'm just thinking how superior the Unix DVCS's are to the integrated solutions you find in the commercial world. With the DVCS tools, you can mix and match to create new uses. | 10:44 |
| parolang | IIRC, Microsoft Word has version control, but it's integrated into the .doc files and can't be used outside of Word. | 10:44 |
| parolang | Hmm...sounds like I achieve the benefits of Hatta with my git repository of my org files. I don't really need an explicit Wiki interface. | 10:47 |
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| Noahj | Hatta ties the version history on the wiki pages to the version history of the version control system though, right? | 10:49 |
| Noahj | It looks slightly shinier than just making your /var/www a git repository | 10:49 |
| parolang | What makes it shinier? | 10:49 |
| Noahj | You can view the version history on the pages themselves | 10:50 |
| Noahj | It's also got RSS/Atom, but I assume you've set that up separately anyway | 10:51 |
| parolang | Now, I haven't set that up. | 10:54 |
| parolang | Okay, a little shinier :) | 10:54 |
| Noahj | http://hatta-wiki.org/What%20sucks | 10:54 |
| Noahj | I like this page. | 10:54 |
| Noahj | And apparently there's a workaround for pushing git with sftp, in the git FAQ: http://git.or.cz/gitwiki/GitFaq/ | 10:56 |
| Noahj | Just mount the partition with "sshfs -o workaround=rename" | 10:56 |
| kanzure | hm: http://www.archiveteam.org/index.php?title=Geocities 49 million URLs from geocities? | 10:59 |
| kanzure | parolang: another shiny feature of hatta-wiki is that people are using distributed revision control without knowing it, via a web interface ;) | 11:03 |
| Noahj | Is there a bittorrent version control system yet? | 11:04 |
| Noahj | Oh right, gittorrent | 11:05 |
| Noahj | That doesn't really /exist/ yet, though | 11:06 |
| Noahj | http://www.advogato.org/article/994.html < here's someone talking about how cool it'd be if it did | 11:10 |
| kanzure | advogato.org has some nice articles every once in a while | 11:10 |
| kanzure | this is one of my favorites: | 11:11 |
| kanzure | http://www.advogato.org/article/972.html | 11:11 |
| kanzure | some notes on EEG setups i just uploaded: http://designfiles.org/papers/neuro/eeg-notes.txt | 11:13 |
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| parolang | lol @ http://openeeg.sourceforge.net/banner.jpg | 11:54 |
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| Trooem | ...do CNC machines cut metal like butter and shape it to way you want it? | 12:37 |
| Noahj1 | 5-axis waterjets cut metal like a hot knife cuts butter, actually, much better | 12:38 |
| -!- Noahj1 is now known as Noahj | 12:38 | |
| Trooem | cool | 12:38 |
| Trooem | wonder if one can use that as a weapon | 12:38 |
| Trooem | in military | 12:38 |
| Trooem | waterfight!!!! | 12:39 |
| Noahj | It wouldn't have very good range | 12:39 |
| Trooem | i see | 12:39 |
| Noahj | If you could get right up next to the enemy's equipment you could cut nice round holes in it | 12:39 |
| Noahj | Or maybe a funky celtic knot or something | 12:39 |
| Noahj | But it'd be a bit redundant as if you're that close and intend only destruction you could simply file a couple rounds into it or light it on fire or what have you | 12:39 |
| Noahj | Laser cutters are more weaponizable, indeed, Israel and the US have a join Mobile Tactical High Energy Laser project | 12:40 |
| Noahj | They use it to melt missiles | 12:40 |
| Trooem | guess rocket launchers are much more effective | 12:40 |
| Trooem | wow | 12:40 |
| Trooem | laser weapons finally | 12:40 |
| Noahj | It's easily subverted by mirror-coating the missiles or changing the shape so the laser doesn't heat them as quickly | 12:41 |
| Noahj | Or by firing them quickly enough that the motors on the laser don't catch up | 12:41 |
| Noahj | But that's its own arms race | 12:41 |
| parolang` | So...what is the high energy laser project intended to fight? | 13:06 |
| parolang` | Sorry...bad question. | 13:06 |
| parolang` | I just mean...we're investing all this money in our military, for what? To fight al-Qaeda? Pfft. | 13:07 |
| parolang` | The military is just a cash-sink. | 13:07 |
| kanzure | yawn | 13:07 |
| kanzure | please don't be so boring | 13:07 |
| Noahj | Melting rockets is boring? | 13:08 |
| parolang` | Heh, alright. You don't discuss politics here. I guess that's what boring is code for :) | 13:08 |
| kanzure | Noahj: complaining about the military is boring | 13:09 |
| Noahj | Complaining about difficulties with the machines the military uses is interesting, though, right? | 13:09 |
| parolang` | Noahj: I think the code is to discuss technical rather than ideological matters. | 13:11 |
| kanzure | ? | 13:12 |
| kanzure | do you speak english? | 13:12 |
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| parolang` | Sorry, I fail at rhetorical questions. | 13:14 |
| parolang` | But yeah, I was offended when you called my comment boring, which isn't unreasonable. Lets move on. | 13:14 |
| kanzure | i'm having a hard time understanding you | 13:15 |
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| genehacker | waterjets have a points in time been considered as use as weapons | 13:34 |
| genehacker | space is a better cash sink | 13:34 |
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| kanzure | hello chupacabra | 13:38 |
| kanzure | are you from the robot group? | 13:38 |
| chupacabra | kinda. heybrian.org seems down. | 13:49 |
| chupacabra | heybryan.org even | 13:50 |
| kanzure | yeah my isp sucks a lot | 13:57 |
| chupacabra | hehe | 13:57 |
| chupacabra | at home? | 13:57 |
| chupacabra | I think I have mastercam somewhere. never had a win machine to run it and never got it right under wine. | 13:58 |
| chupacabra | Iv'e been a machinist since 73 so maybe I can be of some use here. | 14:01 |
| kanzure | cool :) | 14:06 |
| kanzure | there are some videos on youtube that describe what we've been up to | 14:06 |
| -!- chupacabra changed the topic of #hplusroadmap to: see some talk of AI too.hehe http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-n39RK4inzg http://designfiles.org/~bryan/hplus-summit-2009/ http://heybryan.org/ | 14:07 | |
| chupacabra | oops didn't mean to do that. | 14:07 |
| * Utopiah didn't know anybody could change the topic,nice | 14:07 | |
| chupacabra | not a good idea | 14:08 |
| bkero | Yarr | 14:08 |
| bkero | kanzure: What's the deal with the site? | 14:08 |
| bkero | openfarmtech | 14:08 |
| chupacabra | no ops here either | 14:08 |
| -!- chupacabra changed the topic of #hplusroadmap to: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-n39RK4inzg http://designfiles.org/~bryan/hplus-summit-2009/ http://heybryan.org/ | 14:09 | |
| kanzure | chupacabra: the channel isn't registered, so i can't get op status | 14:09 |
| kanzure | bkero: ask marcin, not me | 14:09 |
| chupacabra | gotcha | 14:09 |
| kanzure | chupacabra: have you seen the youtube videos? | 14:09 |
| chupacabra | not yet | 14:10 |
| genehacker | chupacabra you have a CNC machine I assume? | 14:10 |
| -!- chupacabra changed the topic of #hplusroadmap to: i hate debian. hehe http://designfiles.org/~bryan/hplus-summit-2009/ http://heybryan.org/ | 14:14 | |
| chupacabra | I hate Debian... hehe | 14:14 |
| chupacabra | wtf? | 14:14 |
| -!- kanzure changed the topic of #hplusroadmap to: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-n39RK4inzg http://designfiles.org/~bryan/hplus-summit-2009/ http://heybryan.org/ | 14:14 | |
| chupacabra | tks | 14:14 |
| kanzure | chupacabra: any particular reason why you hate debian? | 14:14 |
| Trooem | anyone can change the topic? | 14:14 |
| Trooem | LOL | 14:14 |
| Utopiah | I think the channel could still be registered after asking a network op on #freenode or #help | 14:15 |
| kanzure | Utopiah: they don't reply to my requests | 14:15 |
| kanzure | Utopiah: i also sent in the paperwork too | 14:15 |
| kanzure | it's been a few years by now :( | 14:15 |
| chupacabra | Mainly because of their elitist developers. | 14:15 |
| Utopiah | yes, I also had "delay" with freenode admins (read actually "still waiting" :/ | 14:15 |
| chupacabra | ya, I have regestered a couple of channels a while back. | 14:16 |
| kanzure | chupacabra: :) what are your opinions on dpkg, yast, yum, pacman, emerge, etc.? | 14:16 |
| chupacabra | i like yum most. emerge if I have the time | 14:17 |
| kanzure | we're building an "apt-get" for open source hardware in here :) | 14:18 |
| kanzure | also, random trivia- it looks like carl feynman likes python | 14:18 |
| chupacabra | no cnc atm. access to some if I asked. | 14:18 |
| kanzure | in fact he contributed to the python documentation apparently | 14:18 |
| Utopiah | ( regarding apt-get and Debian package managers there was few discussions about it during http://events.ccc.de/congress/2009/Fahrplan/events/3647.en.html ) | 14:19 |
| chupacabra | sounds like what I have wanted in manufacturing forever. What a proprietary world manufacturing is. | 14:19 |
| kanzure | yeah :( | 14:21 |
| genehacker | I have access to one too supposedly | 14:25 |
| genehacker | I think I have to pay to use it though | 14:25 |
| bkero | kanzure: I would, but he's not here :/ | 14:26 |
| kanzure | bkero: try calling him | 14:26 |
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| bkero | I'll have to do it later, I'm in class. | 14:27 |
| kanzure | bkero: marcin is 816 256 3839 | 14:27 |
| bkero | Thanks for the number. | 14:27 |
| bkero | What timezone is he in? | 14:27 |
| kanzure | he's an alien from another dimension, i don't think he requires sleep | 14:28 |
| chupacabra | Having been in on lots of robotic/machine tool builds I still have to say that the big boys have the upper hand. A good maheenite casting for a base beats the heck outa any welded, jury rigged thing most people can afford to build. | 14:28 |
| kanzure | maheenite? | 14:29 |
| chupacabra | very disheartening | 14:29 |
| kanzure | i'd be willing to do some casting | 14:29 |
| chupacabra | Large mills are maheenite or some other proprietary material they can tout in ads. | 14:30 |
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| Utopiah | kanzure: during H+ summit talk you talked about "civilization seed" perspective, do you have reference of post-civilisation collapse (Maya, Rome, ...) rebuilt kit (vademecum) that were historically very efficient to bootstrap communities? (i.e. if corporation scale technology becomes for a reason or another unusable, what are according to history the most efficient ways to restart) | 14:34 |
| chupacabra | weird, google doesnt really find maheenite. I hit | 14:34 |
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| kanzure | vademecum? | 14:34 |
| Utopiah | (Handbook - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Handbook A handbook is sometimes referred to as a vade mecum (Latin, "go with me") or pocket reference that is intended to be carried at all times.) | 14:35 |
| chupacabra | cant remember what manufacturer was so proud of that but I used to sleep in the ways of this machine that said "Genuine maheenite casting" engraved right where I looked before dropping off to sleep. | 14:35 |
| Utopiah | I guess right now it should be in algorithmic form, but my point is | 14:38 |
| Utopiah | that there should be comparative studies of post-collapse communities and which were the most efficient ones | 14:38 |
| Utopiah | and, I guess, based on what tools and technique at that time | 14:38 |
| Utopiah | thus if there is such a post-collapse efficiency pattern, it could be useful for a "civilization seed" | 14:39 |
| Utopiah | ( http://www.longnow.org/seminars/02009/nov/18/long-and-short-it/ http://www.cambridge.org/catalogue/catalogue.asp?isbn=052138673X and http://www.longnow.org/seminars/02005/jul/15/how-societies-fail-and-sometimes-succeed/ made me wonder about it) | 14:41 |
| chupacabra | Maybe I should start "The Open Machinery's Handbook" hmmmm | 14:44 |
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| chupacabra | with machine tool documentation. | 14:44 |
| chupacabra | do to Industrial Press what Wikipedia did to Funk and Wagonals | 14:47 |
| chupacabra | Thanks fo getting me thinking so early today guys. | 14:48 |
| chupacabra | Who here is in the Robot Group? | 14:51 |
| kanzure | i attended a few times but now i just avoid it | 14:52 |
| kanzure | the meetings at least | 14:52 |
| chupacabra | hehe maybe better I have avoided them. | 14:52 |
| chupacabra | I've met most of them at the Linux users group and at expos and things | 14:53 |
| chupacabra | over the years | 14:53 |
| chupacabra | im on the mail list and someone said to check this channel out | 14:54 |
| kanzure | that was me :) | 14:55 |
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| chupacabra | cool. praise bob | 14:56 |
| chupacabra | looks like a fine place for good work. | 14:57 |
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| chupacabra | when does most of the discussion take place? | 14:58 |
| chupacabra | I gotta go work on a cctv project downtown today. better get moving | 14:59 |
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| kanzure | chupacabra: most people on IRC just idle all day until something interesting happens | 15:06 |
| chupacabra | cool | 15:11 |
| Noahj1 | I'm kind of surprised they don't sell an extruder head for the modela | 15:12 |
| -!- Noahj1 is now known as Noahj | 15:12 | |
| Noahj | There's a laser-cuttable pinch wheel extruder on thingiverse, I wonder if it'll be difficult to adapt | 15:13 |
| Noahj | The modela's a little CNC mill | 15:13 |
| Noahj | Someone's building a MakerBot, but it seems like we could just attach some kind of extruder to it and switch to additive | 15:13 |
| flamt | http://m-net.arbornet.org/~flamoot/telepathic-critterdrug.html | 15:32 |
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| genehacker | Toolpedia? | 15:58 |
| chupacabra | lol | 16:02 |
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| * Trooem would buy a GPS made by Arnold Schwarzenegger | 16:35 | |
| Trooem | german accent: "Look out to your left, there goes a motorcyle." "Watch out, that guy looks like T1000 from my terminator movie." | 16:36 |
| chupacabra | Maybe Wikipedia would be glad to have machinery facts too. | 16:39 |
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| chupacabra | Would it be better to have all data in page form or to calculate only what the user wanted at the time? | 16:41 |
| genehacker | what do you want calculated? | 16:42 |
| chupacabra | i guess just in a db unless it was special | 16:43 |
| timothyschmidt | Noahj: have a link for the modela? | 16:43 |
| Noahj | Tuhn Left on Pine St, get to da choppa | 16:43 |
| Trooem | hehehhe | 16:43 |
| genehacker | I made some messy datafiles for a couple manufacturing processes a while back | 16:43 |
| chupacabra | things like measurements of threads over wires or something like that. | 16:43 |
| genehacker | not very useful, but it helped me on an open note quiz | 16:43 |
| genehacker | force necessary to roll a billet of aluminum to a sheet x units thick? | 16:44 |
| chupacabra | Machinerys handbook has endless pages of data like that. | 16:45 |
| timothyschmidt | indeed | 16:45 |
| genehacker | it's a pretty simple formula | 16:45 |
| chupacabra | ya, at what point is it easier to calculate vs list | 16:46 |
| chupacabra | list for constants. | 16:46 |
| genehacker | at the point you input the properties of the material you have at hand | 16:46 |
| timothyschmidt | the handbook(s) likely have both tables of calculations, and the formula | 16:46 |
| genehacker | generating lists is so old school | 16:47 |
| chupacabra | yes | 16:47 |
| * genehacker should probably write a python script that will when asked for a given variable solve for it using sympy | 16:47 | |
| timothyschmidt | IIRC, genius will do that, as well as everything else you could ask of a graphing calculator. | 16:48 |
| timothyschmidt | I started using it after my TI-92+ was stolen :( | 16:48 |
| genehacker | genius? | 16:49 |
| timothyschmidt | FLOSS graphing calculator software | 16:49 |
| genehacker | oh | 16:49 |
| genehacker | is it better than mathematica? | 16:50 |
| timothyschmidt | http://www.jirka.org/genius.html | 16:50 |
| genehacker | oh thanks | 16:50 |
| timothyschmidt | In that it's open-source, yes. | 16:50 |
| timothyschmidt | featurewise, no. | 16:50 |
| timothyschmidt | it's not really meant to compete with mathematica. You want Sage for that. | 16:51 |
| timothyschmidt | http://www.sagemath.org/ | 16:51 |
| kanzure | chupacabra: skdb isn't really a "database". the machinery's handbook is encoded into it | 16:52 |
| kanzure | well | 16:52 |
| kanzure | it should be | 16:52 |
| timothyschmidt | speaking of which... plugging sage into skdb might come in handy | 16:52 |
| kanzure | but right now only screws and legos are ;) | 16:52 |
| kanzure | timothyschmidt: pythonocc has some support for parametric modeling | 16:52 |
| kanzure | and hooking up the parametric modeling to sympy might be fun | 16:52 |
| kanzure | and/or sage/octave :) | 16:52 |
| timothyschmidt | completely unrelated, but I got my new glasses from Zenni Optical in the mail today. $12.50 shipped. Very happy. | 16:54 |
| genehacker | hooking up sympy to parametric modelling would definately be fun | 16:54 |
| genehacker | speaking of glasses anyone know of any CAD programs that are compatible with Nvidia stereo drivers? | 16:55 |
| timothyschmidt | Solidworks | 16:56 |
| genehacker | IE so you can put on shutter glasses and do 3D modelling | 16:56 |
| genehacker | really? | 16:56 |
| chupacabra | shoot fedora 12 yum is installing genius | 16:56 |
| timothyschmidt | yeah | 16:56 |
| kanzure | chupacabra: what? | 16:56 |
| kanzure | is "genius" a program? | 16:56 |
| timothyschmidt | kanzure: it's a graphing calculator program | 16:57 |
| genehacker | now if I could only install stereodrivers on school computers... | 16:57 |
| timothyschmidt | IOW, it functions as a graphing calculator | 16:57 |
| kanzure | ah. there's also qalculate | 16:57 |
| * timothyschmidt is downloading the Sage livecd right now | 17:01 | |
| chupacabra | looks like text only. gotta read the manual later. | 17:05 |
| chupacabra | had to get gnome-genius | 17:18 |
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| QuantumG | http://aboutbryan.com/stagedkindness/ | 17:32 |
| chupacabra | hehe | 17:48 |
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| QuantumG | CONCLUSION: Duct tape occlusion therapy was significantly more effective than cryotherapy for treatment of the common wart. | 18:00 |
| QuantumG | http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez/12361440 | 18:00 |
| timothyschmidt | not a great sample size, to say the lease. | 18:07 |
| timothyschmidt | least | 18:07 |
| timothyschmidt | but interesting nonetheless | 18:08 |
| QuantumG | ya, its one of those things that are likely to be repeated because its interesting | 18:08 |
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| bkero | I need someone in china to buy me a phone. | 19:11 |
| nsh | my friend ee bei might be able to do that for you | 19:20 |
| timothyschmidt | bkero: what phone are you interested in? | 19:29 |
| kanzure | http://heybryan.org/ is back and online | 19:33 |
| bkero | timothyschmidt: The Lenovo Lephone | 19:34 |
| bkero | Can you get me one? | 19:34 |
| kanzure | does anyone know of a reusable arsenic sensor? | 19:34 |
| kanzure | fenn: tub should be back | 19:34 |
| timothyschmidt | bkero: Nope. I cannot. Just curious as to what type of gadget it was | 19:36 |
| bkero | timothyschmidt: 1ghz snapdragon processor, 512mb ram, android 1.6, 12mm thick. THe shell it goes in has a keyboard and extra battery | 19:39 |
| timothyschmidt | I see. I am distrustful of phones these days... since the NSA and FBI's capabilities to use them as remote microphones have been reasonably well documented. I own an OpenMoko, for which the circuitry is documented, and there is no direct connection between the GSM portion which runs a proprietary firmware and the mic, but I suppose it would be just as easy to design audio and GSM chipsets capable of communicating | 19:44 |
| timothyschmidt | via covert channels - power usage spikes and such. | 19:44 |
| timothyschmidt | :( | 19:44 |
| QuantumG | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8QuUEwrKm8 | 19:45 |
| QuantumG | if you want some tinfoil | 19:45 |
| QuantumG | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8QuUEwrKm8#t=36m15s is probably the best part of that video :) | 19:45 |
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| timothyschmidt | sadly, there's not much tinfoil in my stance. GM's onstar system has even been used as a remote mic via court order. And with the recent disclosure by Sprint of the number of times GPS tracking of phones has been queried by government officials, I would rather not be carrying a device with Gbs of storage, a powerful CPU, sensitive mic and DSP, camera, multiple radio transceivers including GPS, all controlled by so | 19:48 |
| timothyschmidt | meone else. | 19:48 |
| QuantumG | but dude, why are they listening to you? It's not like they can listen all the time and record it for later processing.. they can only do it for someone of value.. what makes you think you're so important? | 19:50 |
| timothyschmidt | wrong. | 19:50 |
| timothyschmidt | The amount of storage required to record all audio from all available phones in the nation for even the next hundred years is actually quite reasonable. A single datacenter stocked with TB hard drives would do the trick. | 19:51 |
| QuantumG | yep, that's for calls | 19:52 |
| QuantumG | you're talking about being able to turn on microphones | 19:52 |
| timothyschmidt | No, the math I've done is for 24/7/365 audio recording | 19:52 |
| QuantumG | there aint no way (currently) that can be done scattershot | 19:52 |
| timothyschmidt | regardless of whether or not it seems practical, it is demonstrably possible. | 19:53 |
| QuantumG | that's great, but mobile phones simply cannot be connected to a call for that long | 19:53 |
| timothyschmidt | These days they don't need to be... they have tons of storage. | 19:53 |
| QuantumG | can you please make a full argument, cause I'm sick of playing 20 questions to hear your stupidity. | 19:54 |
| timothyschmidt | The only thing I'm arguing is that it's not smart to carry around a powerful computer full of sensors that reports to someone else. | 19:54 |
| QuantumG | that's not an argument | 19:55 |
| QuantumG | make one | 19:55 |
| QuantumG | or shut up | 19:55 |
| QuantumG | thanks | 19:55 |
| timothyschmidt | No, that's a statement. You would be providing the other half if we were having an argument. Instead, you're telling me to shut up. | 19:56 |
| kanzure | timothyschmidt: it's ok, he admits he's an ass | 19:56 |
| kanzure | :p | 19:56 |
| QuantumG | no dude, "it's not smart to carry around..." is a declaration of fact.. you havn't made any argument to support your position. | 19:56 |
| timothyschmidt | I assume you're familiar with google. You can type in "sprint GPS law enforcement" or "GM onstar eavesdropping" as I mentioned earlier. | 19:58 |
| timothyschmidt | My mistake in assuming a minimum level of competence. | 19:58 |
| QuantumG | right, so now you're actually asking me to go make your argument for you. | 19:58 |
| kanzure | timothyschmidt: he's saying that you don't have enough storage space on individual phones for full audio recording 24/7/365 | 19:58 |
| timothyschmidt | Telling you how to access my primary sources is not asking you to make me an argument. | 19:58 |
| kanzure | hm, what's emcrepstrap? | 19:59 |
| QuantumG | actually, I'm not.. I'm saying tim has failed to even mention what he's on about and why it should be a concern.. and just expects me to agree with him. | 19:59 |
| timothyschmidt | I expect you to do some research before telling someone to shut up. | 20:01 |
| timothyschmidt | I don't expect agreement | 20:01 |
| QuantumG | tim, you either care whether I accept your opinion or you're just yelling into the wind | 20:01 |
| QuantumG | if you wanna yell into the wind, do it elsewhere thanks | 20:02 |
| timothyschmidt | Exactly the same could be said of you | 20:02 |
| timothyschmidt | It is not crackpottery to desire open and verifiable systems. | 20:03 |
| timothyschmidt | even if there is no such thing | 20:04 |
| QuantumG | what's the cost/benefit though? | 20:04 |
| timothyschmidt | What is the cost/benefit of FOSS? It is largely the same argument. | 20:05 |
| QuantumG | what is? | 20:06 |
| timothyschmidt | You're asking me to determine the cost / benefit of freedom. | 20:06 |
| timothyschmidt | of control of the things you own | 20:07 |
| timothyschmidt | To you, that benefit is apparently quite low. To others, it approaches pricelessness. | 20:08 |
| QuantumG | this is what is annoying me man.. I can't have a conversation with someone who isn't even willing to string together some coherent thoughts. | 20:08 |
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| timothyschmidt | And despite trotting out logical fallacies, I still try. | 20:09 |
| timothyschmidt | despite (you) trotting out... | 20:09 |
| QuantumG | huh? | 20:10 |
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| timothyschmidt | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem | 20:12 |
| QuantumG | did you read that page? | 20:13 |
| timothyschmidt | yup | 20:13 |
| QuantumG | An ad hominem argument is an argument which links the validity of a premise to an irrelevant characteristic or belief of the person advocating the premise. | 20:13 |
| timothyschmidt | right | 20:13 |
| QuantumG | can you please explain how you think I've done that? | 20:13 |
| QuantumG | (if that's the case) | 20:14 |
| timothyschmidt | " I can't have a conversation with someone who isn't even willing to string together some coherent thoughts.", tinfoil hat references, etc. | 20:14 |
| QuantumG | ... ok. I've specifically said that you've failed to make a coherent argument. Clearly, I am attacking your argument (or lack there-of) not you.. so how is it an Ad hominem attack? | 20:15 |
| QuantumG | if I had said "Your name is Tim and I've never met a Tim who ever had a sensible thing to say, therefore you must be saying stupid things." that would be an Ad hominem attack.. but I didn't. | 20:15 |
| QuantumG | you'll also note that the second line on that page says: The ad hominem argument is not a fallacy despite there being fallacious instances of the argument. | 20:16 |
| timothyschmidt | You have not addressed any single point I've made. At all. Instead, you've characterized me as someone who can't string together thoughts. That's an Ad hominem attack. | 20:16 |
| QuantumG | which I find strange because you offered this page after saying that I was "trotting out logical fallacies". | 20:17 |
| timothyschmidt | note it's presence on this page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fallacies | 20:17 |
| timothyschmidt | It is therefore a matter of some dispute. | 20:17 |
| QuantumG | that would be the second sentence on that line, yes. | 20:18 |
| QuantumG | in any case tim, I've had about enough of talking to you and will be ignoring you from here on. | 20:18 |
| timothyschmidt | excellent | 20:18 |
| timothyschmidt | Well done, on your part, not adding anything of value to the conversation. | 20:19 |
| kanzure | hm since when did this exist? http://www.pythonocc.org/blog/ | 20:21 |
| timothyschmidt | During all this, for anyone curious, I re-ran some math. A typical phone conversation over copper is sampled at 8hz mono, and can be recorded at reasonable fidelity at 8bits per sample. That gives us something like 64kbit/s of data. A full day's data uncompressed is about 650Mb. Speex can knock that down to under 100Mb. | 20:22 |
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| thesnark | http://mouse.brain-map.org/welcome.do;jsessionid=07C1B975B38E4D92FC48627D76E959DD Map of which genes are most commonly active in each part of a mouse brain | 20:34 |
| thesnark | just great detail | 20:36 |
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| QuantumG | nice | 20:37 |
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| fenn | omg quantumg liked something | 20:43 |
| QuantumG | I like lots of stuff fenn, follow me on twitter if you really wanna know what they are :) | 20:43 |
| fenn | no, i dont really care | 20:44 |
| QuantumG | http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2010/01/11/another-dose-of-martian-awesome/?home | 20:45 |
| QuantumG | check that out. | 20:45 |
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| kanzure | thesnark: i parsed that dataset from brain-map.org btw | 20:59 |
| kanzure | and put it into a repository | 20:59 |
| kanzure | http://github.com/kanzure/brain/ | 20:59 |
| kanzure | enjoy :) | 20:59 |
| thesnark | O_O | 20:59 |
| * thesnark could hug kanzure | 20:59 | |
| thesnark | I swear | 20:59 |
| kanzure | in particular see this: | 20:59 |
| thesnark | I MEAN, WHAT? | 20:59 |
| kanzure | http://github.com/kanzure/brain/tree/master/allenbraininstitute/mouse/ | 20:59 |
| kanzure | hm i wonder why i don't have location data in there for those files | 21:00 |
| kanzure | " mgrube forked kanzure/brain just now" | 21:02 |
| thesnark | ;) | 21:03 |
| thesnark | what tool did you use? homemade script? | 21:03 |
| * kanzure nods | 21:03 | |
| thesnark | I didn't even look at what data format they were using | 21:03 |
| thesnark | but uh this is pretty nice :) | 21:03 |
| kanzure | this one should also be interesting http://github.com/kanzure/brain/blob/master/human_brain.yaml | 21:03 |
| kanzure | i got tired of reading all these papers and forgetting where the hell things were | 21:04 |
| kanzure | so now i just document stuff when i read it | 21:04 |
| kanzure | and maybe one day will have a 3D visualization of the literature mapped to the brain | 21:04 |
| kanzure | http://homebrewindustrialrevolution.wordpress.com/2010/01/11/contents/ | 21:07 |
| QuantumG | trans-splicing looks interesting | 21:34 |
| kanzure | hm? | 21:35 |
| QuantumG | http://www.nature.com/mt/journal/v12/n6/fig_tab/mt20051385f1.html | 21:35 |
| kanzure | fenn: are you around? | 21:36 |
| QuantumG | seems you could selectively express two genes and have their pre-mRNA splice together in vivo. | 21:36 |
| fenn | ya | 21:36 |
| kanzure | fenn: were you trying to convince me to do an EEG project once? | 21:37 |
| kanzure | or at least arguing for one | 21:37 |
| fenn | no | 21:37 |
| kanzure | thesnark: let's talk in here | 21:37 |
| fenn | i think openeeg should be packaged like any other open hardware project | 21:37 |
| thesnark | fenn hm? | 21:38 |
| kanzure | i agree | 21:38 |
| kanzure | thesnark wants to do some improvements and builds | 21:38 |
| thesnark | sorry what do you mean packaged? | 21:38 |
| fenn | it's fun to play with but ultimately really hard to do anything with | 21:38 |
| thesnark | ah | 21:38 |
| kanzure | i can't find any convincing reasons to give him the funds to build one :( | 21:38 |
| fenn | thesnark: put the files in a common/standardized data format | 21:39 |
| kanzure | thesnark: that's the SKDB idea talking (re: packaging) | 21:39 |
| kanzure | for apt-get install eeg-setup-goes-here | 21:39 |
| thesnark | right ok | 21:39 |
| fenn | isnt openeeg exceedingly cheap? like some optocouplers and an AVR | 21:39 |
| thesnark | hm not really that simple and cheap I suppose is relative | 21:39 |
| kanzure | an avr is a few bucks | 21:40 |
| fenn | <$50 | 21:40 |
| * thesnark laughs | 21:40 | |
| thesnark | it is not <50 | 21:40 |
| kanzure | O.o | 21:40 |
| fenn | then you must be doing it wrong | 21:40 |
| kanzure | ha | 21:40 |
| fenn | how could it possibly cost more | 21:40 |
| thesnark | go look at the bom, it is not just the boards | 21:40 |
| QuantumG | I think ybit expressed some interest in EEG | 21:41 |
| kanzure | thesnark: link? | 21:41 |
| thesnark | the microcontroller turns the A/D data into serial data but there is more than just the chip for sure.... | 21:41 |
| thesnark | sec | 21:41 |
| fenn | if i'm reading this right, he spent $90 on two 47uF capacitors?????? ??? | 21:42 |
| fenn | this is a sorry excuse for a BOM | 21:43 |
| kanzure | linkage? | 21:43 |
| * kanzure cries | 21:43 | |
| fenn | http://openeeg.sourceforge.net/buildeeg/parts.php#componentshttp://openeeg.sourceforge.net/buildeeg/parts.php#componentshttp://openeeg.sourceforge.net/buildeeg/parts.php#componentshttp://openeeg.sourceforge.net/buildeeg/parts.php#componentssorry i'm having trouble pasting | 21:43 |
| kanzure | i can tell | 21:44 |
| fenn | gah | 21:44 |
| thesnark | http://sourceforge.net/projects/openeeg/files/ModularEEG/ModularEEG-v1.1.1/ModularEEG-v1.1.1.zip/download | 21:44 |
| thesnark | sorry it's zipped | 21:44 |
| thesnark | but labeled as the bom | 21:44 |
| kanzure | er is it in the .xls file? | 21:44 |
| thesnark | or pdf | 21:44 |
| kanzure | lovely :( | 21:44 |
| fenn | thesnark: see what i mean about standardized data formats? | 21:45 |
| thesnark | well ok but this is what we're working with for our discussion, we can worry about data formats after | 21:46 |
| kanzure | i don't think he's initiated into skdb-dom-hood | 21:46 |
| kanzure | skdbdomhood? w/e | 21:46 |
| thesnark | at any rate | 21:46 |
| thesnark | that bom will be >50, especially if you want just 6 channels | 21:47 |
| thesnark | at any rate I didn't think cost was the focus of the discussion? | 21:48 |
| thesnark | more like "is it worth pursuing?" | 21:48 |
| kanzure | it's more than worth pursuing if it's less than a few hundred bucks | 21:49 |
| kanzure | that's what he was highlighting | 21:49 |
| kanzure | "if it's only a few bucks, what the hell are you waiting for bryan" | 21:49 |
| kanzure | regardless of whether it's worth pursuing or not :) | 21:49 |
| thesnark | ah | 21:49 |
| fenn | i'm sorry but i dont see anything on that BOM that is expensive | 21:50 |
| * thesnark wants to remind kanzure that it could end up being more expensive than a few bucks for 32 channels plus computers | 21:50 | |
| thesnark | nah, none of the individual parts are | 21:50 |
| fenn | why do you need 32 channels? | 21:51 |
| fenn | isnt the point of it being modular that you can add more if you need it? | 21:51 |
| thesnark | more definition, more data, more to process | 21:51 |
| thesnark | fenn right | 21:51 |
| thesnark | but it's only designed to support a pathetic 6 channels | 21:51 |
| thesnark | 1 analog board = 2 channels | 21:52 |
| thesnark | lame lame lame lame | 21:52 |
| fenn | better than nothing at all i guess | 21:52 |
| thesnark | haha of course it's better than nothing | 21:52 |
| thesnark | but I'd like to see more | 21:52 |
| fenn | so modular only goes up to 6 channels? | 21:52 |
| fenn | why dont they use i2c or something? | 21:52 |
| fenn | a local bus | 21:53 |
| thesnark | I don't know, good question | 21:53 |
| thesnark | that's the point | 21:53 |
| fenn | actually SPI woul dbe better | 21:53 |
| thesnark | yeah, the microcontroller is limited by # of A/D converters | 21:53 |
| thesnark | hence 6 channels | 21:53 |
| thesnark | I don't want to give false impressions, I believe it will be more than just a small amount of money to turn into something usable | 21:56 |
| thesnark | but the end product will be 1) cheap 2) usable by "joe" | 21:56 |
| kanzure | yeah but.. to do what? | 21:56 |
| kanzure | do a little avie dance? | 21:56 |
| fenn | what, you're doing product development? already missed the boat on that one | 21:57 |
| fenn | emotiv, force trainer, etc | 21:57 |
| * kanzure nods | 21:57 | |
| fenn | i think it would be a neat piece of clothing/jewelery | 21:58 |
| fenn | some cloth that changes color and patterns based on eeg feedback | 21:58 |
| fenn | like the phillips glowing fabric i can't remember the name of | 21:58 |
| fenn | lumalive | 21:58 |
| * thesnark can't tell if you're being sarcastic, but hopes you're not | 21:58 | |
| thesnark | hm | 21:59 |
| fenn | all existing applications of lighted fabric are horribly cheesy of course | 21:59 |
| kanzure | fenn: you forgot the snarkmark | 22:00 |
| thesnark | but isn't changing color of clothing just one example of a more general activity? | 22:00 |
| fenn | whoever made lumalive.com should probably be shot | 22:00 |
| fenn | thesnark: not sarcastic | 22:00 |
| fenn | anyway there are lots of ways to do it | 22:01 |
| thesnark | basically I want to make software that allows somebody to use this eeg and very easily say "this means change the color" | 22:02 |
| fenn | i don't think it's "communicating" or "controlling external devices" as some EEG nerds seem to think | 22:02 |
| kanzure | then what _is_ the point | 22:02 |
| * kanzure has been trying to figure this out | 22:02 | |
| thesnark | how is that not controlling an external device fenn? | 22:02 |
| fenn | thesnark: in a technical sense, yes, but not like using a mouse or steering wheel | 22:03 |
| fenn | kanzure: mostly misunderstanding i think | 22:03 |
| kanzure | ? | 22:03 |
| fenn | why is EEG "medical equipment" | 22:05 |
| fenn | i dont need a license to own a mood ring | 22:05 |
| QuantumG | cause its used in the practice of medicine | 22:05 |
| thesnark | it's used to diagnose things like epilepsy or sleep disorders | 22:05 |
| fenn | or to attach titanium horns to my skull | 22:05 |
| kanzure | QuantumG: so is a penis | 22:05 |
| QuantumG | well, maybe your doctor does :) | 22:05 |
| fenn | heh kanzure i think you goofed that one | 22:05 |
| kanzure | fuck | 22:06 |
| fenn | now add "so is a penis" to every sentence | 22:06 |
| QuantumG | tongue depressors are medical equipment.. stupid as that sounds. | 22:06 |
| fenn | QuantumG: but i can buy popsicle sticks at craft crap stores | 22:07 |
| thesnark | did nobody see what a wrote? | 22:07 |
| thesnark | I wrote | 22:07 |
| thesnark | fuck me | 22:07 |
| QuantumG | EEG is a stupid name anyway | 22:07 |
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| QuantumG | give it a nicer marketing name. "brain signal sensor" | 22:08 |
| thesnark | annnd this is why we didn't talk in the room | 22:08 |
| QuantumG | where's our marketing guy | 22:08 |
| fenn | "WARNING: it is best to avoid touching live mains wires" OK i'll keep that in mind | 22:08 |
| fenn | but what does that have to do with EEG | 22:08 |
| timothyschmidt | I think not touching live mains counts as a general life skill... other than that, not much. | 22:09 |
| kanzure | "life skill" | 22:09 |
| timothyschmidt | right | 22:09 |
| fenn | this should be totally wireless by now anyway | 22:10 |
| thesnark | there are wireless systems | 22:10 |
| QuantumG | http://www.mikeholt.com/HighPowerJobVideo.php | 22:10 |
| fenn | thesnark: if you're spending $100 on capacitors then you ought to afford a bluetooth chip | 22:10 |
| thesnark | right because it's that simple | 22:11 |
| kanzure | ? | 22:11 |
| kanzure | sarcasm? | 22:11 |
| kanzure | please put a snarkmark (~) when you're being snarky | 22:11 |
| QuantumG | ~I'll just put it on everything I say then ok? | 22:13 |
| thesnark | all he has to do is check the price of those systems to see if I'm being sarcastic | 22:13 |
| thesnark | I mean sure it's possible and can probably be done cheaply | 22:13 |
| QuantumG | anyone know if splicing is "clean"? does it leave consensus sequences in the exons? | 22:15 |
| fenn | it leaves half the palindrome | 22:18 |
| fenn | does that count? | 22:18 |
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| kanzure | fenn: so.. color changing? | 22:25 |
| fenn | blinky led's and such | 22:27 |
| fenn | wow | 22:27 |
| fenn | "I used a PIC17C756 to : | 22:27 |
| fenn | - Acquire in real time an audio signal at 16Ksps | 22:27 |
| fenn | - Calculate the FFT of the signal, using a 256 points 16-bits fixed point | 22:27 |
| fenn | FFT. This FFT itself took around 40ms | 22:27 |
| fenn | - Generate in real time the FFT spectrum on a VGA display using | 22:27 |
| fenn | software-generated video | 22:27 |
| kanzure | ? | 22:28 |
| fenn | so it's possible to do the heavy lifting on a $2 microcontroller | 22:28 |
| fenn | which simplifies the whole wearable blinky device considerably | 22:28 |
| kanzure | FFT is some sort of fourier transform? | 22:28 |
| kanzure | sorry that i'm not impressed by blinky leds hooked up to an eeg | 22:29 |
| fenn | yeah it's a fourier transform algorithm | 22:29 |
| fenn | kanzure: it's not supposed to be impressive, shut up | 22:29 |
| kanzure | i see | 22:29 |
| kanzure | but i should do it anyway? | 22:29 |
| fenn | nobody is saying you should do anything | 22:32 |
| fenn | kanzure: ok you want a "go do this" idea? go find someone with an EEG and see what it's like | 22:33 |
| fenn | then decide for yourself whether you care or not | 22:34 |
| timothyschmidt | So the RepRap folks are starting to work on a modern, self-replicating erector set-style building system for small - medium scale machinery. | 23:09 |
| timothyschmidt | akin to 8020 | 23:09 |
| timothyschmidt | or gridbeam | 23:09 |
| kanzure | oh? | 23:09 |
| timothyschmidt | http://objects.reprap.org/wiki/RBS | 23:09 |
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| kanzure | "or start with said mirroring and eventually bootstrap the RepRap website into a debian-like apt-get repository. " | 23:11 |
| QuantumG | nice | 23:11 |
| timothyschmidt | Also, a RepStrap that will be capable of not only FDM, but also milling and 3D printing - where a dust-like material is sprayed with glue to form both a support material and the object itself. | 23:13 |
| timothyschmidt | http://objects.reprap.org/wiki/Eiffel | 23:13 |
| kanzure | timothyschmidt: someone needs to tell them about skdb | 23:13 |
| kanzure | no need to repeat work.. | 23:14 |
| timothyschmidt | what parts of this would skdb negate? | 23:14 |
| kanzure | the apt-get part | 23:14 |
| timothyschmidt | There's no apt-get part being worked on | 23:14 |
| timothyschmidt | Just the nuts and bolts | 23:14 |
| kanzure | maybe you didn't read the page | 23:14 |
| kanzure | http://objects.reprap.org/wiki/RBS | 23:14 |
| timothyschmidt | ? | 23:15 |
| timothyschmidt | quote a section | 23:15 |
| kanzure | "or start with said mirroring and eventually bootstrap the RepRap website into a debian-like apt-get repository." | 23:15 |
| timothyschmidt | no one is working on that ATM, and if anyone started, they would use skdb | 23:16 |
| kanzure | if you say so | 23:16 |
| timothyschmidt | we don't have enough manpower to re-invent wheels that big | 23:17 |
| kanzure | you'd be surprised.. zach hoeken | 23:17 |
| timothyschmidt | we only have one of him | 23:17 |
| kanzure | yeah and he reinvents wheels all the time | 23:17 |
| kanzure | or hires them | 23:17 |
| timothyschmidt | As soon as we can reprap a cloning machine... | 23:17 |
| kanzure | (and i'm trying to say that he shouldn't) | 23:17 |
| timothyschmidt | Nothing inherently wrong with re-inventing wheels if you can spare the manpower to do so... multiple projects allows one to explore more ideas in the same concept space. The only problem is that there's never enough manpower. | 23:18 |
| timothyschmidt | AFAIK, there's no one in the main project as willing to do so as Zach. | 23:20 |
| kanzure | oh man. i feel so old: http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/linuxquestions.org-member-intro-24/hello-157541/ | 23:28 |
| timothyschmidt | shut up. you're 20 | 23:28 |
| kanzure | haha | 23:28 |
| timothyschmidt | "highly modivated." | 23:29 |
| kanzure | heh | 23:29 |
| kanzure | if you think that's bad, check this out: http://www.neoseeker.com/forums/directmessage.php?m=731189 | 23:30 |
| kanzure | hahah "MOD WARNING: Links to hacker sites are not allowed." | 23:30 |
| timothyschmidt | awesome | 23:31 |
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| kanzure | hm for some reason heybryan.org:8081 is indexed on google | 23:42 |
| kanzure | hey does anyone know who this is? http://fabien.benetou.fr/Cookbook/Objects | 23:43 |
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