2010-02-17.log

--- Day changed Wed Feb 17 2010
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Phreedom__kanzure: ubuntu is what users say, not devs :)00:18
Phreedom__kanzure: mark shuttleworth though has a particularly bad case of a NIH syndrome00:21
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QuantumGPhreedom__: can you give us an example about that?00:57
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bkeroThe Ubuntu boot screen is a fine example of that.01:00
kanzurea giant "ubuntu" logo?01:00
kanzurewtf am i doing awake01:00
QuantumGbkero: it is?01:01
bkeroYes01:01
bkeroThe ubuntu loader screen is Shuttleworth's NIH01:01
QuantumGcare to elaborate?01:02
bkeroSure01:02
bkeroUbuntu created a big stupid X-based bootsplash because Shuttleworth didn't want to use Fedora's Plymouth.01:02
bkeroxplash is a flop comparatively01:03
bkeroWhich is why the community got pissed and Plymouth is on track to be implemented in 10.04.01:03
bkerohttp://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=NzQ4Mw01:04
QuantumGkinda seems like Plymouth was the johnny come lately and the Ubuntu devs (not Shuttleworth) declined to adopt it.  That's hardly NIH.. that's "none today thanks."01:07
QuantumGwhat I remember being NIH was the network manager.01:09
bkeroNah, Plymouth was out before xsplash existed01:19
bkeroTHey used xsplash because they used too old of a kernel, and couldn't have kernel modesetting on some hardware.01:19
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Phreedom__QuantumG: BZR01:28
QuantumGbzr is perfect example of "not invented anywhere" .. and don't say git, it doesn't do the stuff bzr was invented to do.01:29
Phreedom__QuantumG: oh really? so you think that if they didn't like the cli interface, the proper way wasn't to wrap it in a couple of scripts and instead reiplement the versioning FS?01:30
Phreedom__which is then wrapped around with scripts of course01:30
bkerolaunchpad was sorta nih01:30
QuantumGumm.. bzr does merging in a completely different way to git, it does branches in a completely different way, it does backup and distribution in a completely different way.. and yes, the command set is ACTUALLY SANE01:31
QuantumGgit, on the other hand, is awesomely fast.01:31
Phreedom__bkero: and initially they didn't open up launchpad hoping for get everyone to use their service....01:32
Phreedom__bkero: so it's worse than nih :)01:32
Phreedom__QuantumG: I don't think there are that thereare so many ways to od branching :)01:32
QuantumGsure there is.. go listen to Linus' "you're all stupid and ugly" video01:33
QuantumGand go look at the abortion of performance that is mercurial 01:34
Phreedom__QuantumG: basically there are 2 approaches: svn and git01:38
Phreedom__not sure bzr managed to become a distinct 3rd01:38
Phreedom__oh and I did used bzr a little bit01:38
Phreedom__*use01:38
QuantumGumm.. at a gross understanding sure.. there's centralized vs distributed... but in both centralized and distributed there's all sorts of variation.01:39
QuantumGgit's branch system doesn't even make "file" a first class citizen.. you can hear linus talk about this as a virtue a LOT if you go look.01:40
fenn"120,000 ton hours of ice storage coils located in a 4 million gallon tank under the Jordan Quad parking lot"01:41
Phreedom__QuantumG: which doesn't really restrict you(and you convenience wrapper script) from treating files as something spacial01:41
Phreedom__*special01:41
Phreedom__wtf with my fingers today01:41
Phreedom__*is01:41
Phreedom__doh01:41
QuantumGso, looking around at the distributed revision control systems available at the time, it was either the unusable, unworkable crap that was mercurial and all their bastard spin-offs, or git, which is written by a mad man who doesn't think "file" is an important concept for a revision control system... and for many projects I imagine it isn't, but for *making a distro* the concept of a file is kinda important.01:42
QuantumGand that's what bzr is about... file management for tracking changes in package management.01:42
Phreedom__QuantumG: I didn't claim git was/is perfect. the point is that git is a versioning fs, and it's still unsurpassed in this regard. there was no sense to reimplement it01:45
Phreedom__and now as a consequence you have 2 versioning FSes, 2 sets of guis, etc etc01:45
QuantumGit's really not a versioning fs.. I don't know why you think it is.01:45
QuantumGthere's a lot more than 201:45
QuantumGand there was a lot more than 2 before git01:45
Phreedom__QuantumG: of course I meant you have 2 instead of 101:46
QuantumGwas Linus engaging in NIH or was he just recognizing that there was no tool out there that did the job he wanted.01:46
QuantumGbtw, I presume you've seen this:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XpnKHJAok801:46
QuantumGif not, watch it, because it's awesome.01:46
Phreedom__ Torvalds explains,[38]01:47
Phreedom__In many ways you can just see git as a filesystem — it's content-addressable, and it has a notion of versioning, but I really really designed it coming at the problem from the viewpoint of a filesystem person (hey, kernels is what I do), and I actually have absolutely zero interest in creating a traditional SCM system.01:47
QuantumGya.. it's not a filesystem though01:47
Phreedom__of course one part of git is SCM built on top of the versioning fs01:47
Phreedom__QuantumG: it doesn't have a kernel driver, yes :)01:48
QuantumGI can think about making a boat from the perspective of a person who makes cars, but it doesn't mean my boat is a car.01:48
Phreedom__doesn't make it less powerful01:48
QuantumGI didn't say it did.. I'm just saying it's not a versioning fs... there have been versioning filesystems, they do exist, you can get them, and git aint one.. it doesn't have one in it.  01:48
Phreedom__QuantumG: you can write a simple fuse wrapped(if it's not written already) and expose it01:49
Phreedom__*wrapper01:49
QuantumGand the content-addressable thing is very nice and very powerful, but there's certain jobs for which it's simply the wrong thing.. and one of those jobs is what bzr was written for.01:50
QuantumGI can write a fuse wrapper to make tetris look like a filesystem.. so what?01:50
fennprove it!01:51
Phreedom__nothing, if you ignore the obvious differences01:51
* fenn would like to see a tetris-based filesystem01:51
QuantumGme too, it'd be awesome. 01:51
* fenn mumbles something about defragging01:52
QuantumGls ; ls ; ls ; ls ; cd left ; ls ; ls ; cd drop ; ls ; ls ; ls ; cd right ; cd drop ; ls01:52
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fennyou can't tell from the aerial photos, but this building contains 12 milling machines, 8 lathes, 6 VMC's, a bronze/aluminum foundry, and an injection moulding machine (and other stuff)01:57
fennhttp://tinyurl.com/yeelrl301:57
fennthere was a big glossy poster for "neuroscience and molecular biology of sleep disorders" on feb 18 (stanford) but i can't seem to find it anywhere on the net02:34
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facefacehey kardan 04:23
facefacewuh?04:23
facefacekanzure: 04:23
facefacehttp://www.the-scientist.com/blog/display/57143/04:23
facefaceI'm guessing you've seen it, but anyway04:24
facefacesynthetic biologist Jason Chin of the Medical Research Council Laboratory of Molecular Biology in Cambridge, UK, and his colleagues decided to devise a system that could read codons that are 4 base pairs long04:24
facefaceI used to work at teh LMB :D04:24
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kanzurehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenGL_Performer09:26
facefacekanzure: four base condons old news?09:28
kanzurecondons?09:30
facefacetypoz09:30
facefacecodon09:30
facefacecodons09:30
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kanzurehttp://hplusmagazine.com/articles/toys-tools/hackerspace-your-garage-downloading-diy-hardware-over-web12:42
kanzureoh snap12:42
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Utopiahthe fame12:43
Utopiah./skdb plane.F16.engine12:44
Utopiah"the instructions to build a DIY object" ? why "DIY" there?12:47
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katsmeow"instructions to take to a machine shop and have them do it"13:03
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kanzureUtopiah: to be honest, i did not write it :)13:29
kanzurekatsmeow: hahah13:29
Utopiahnice, blame your sexy secretary ;)13:30
kanzureit's clear that there's no editor13:30
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kanzurehttp://www.gapminder.org/14:52
bkeroOne of my favorite sites :)15:00
bkeroI like using it to prove points in an argument15:00
bkero(I have weird arguments)15:00
kanzurehave you ever done this? http://www.gapminder.org/upload-data/motion-chart/15:15
kanzurehow much should i be paid to maintain a website that gets 10k hits/day?16:07
kanzureusually i'd do this for free, but they are insisting16:07
QuantumGhow much of your time does it take?16:09
QuantumGpick an hourly rate..16:10
kanzureit will take a few hours a week maybe16:10
kanzurehonestly the person currently maintaining it is not a programmer16:10
kanzureso he does a lot of things the long-and-hard way16:10
kanzureon one of my projects i'm being paid $150/hour (iphone app dev bullshit)16:11
QuantumGyeah, the rate is dependant on how much they can pay and how much you need it.. if you usually do it for free, and don't mind, pick an arbitrary low rate.16:13
kanzureok cool16:18
kanzure$1/mo?16:18
QuantumGheh, if you wanna unsell yourself :)16:20
kanzureybit: how about cubespawn cnc kits for p2pu classes?16:25
superkuhI want to put 2500 1mm holes (not vias) in a 1mm or thinner pcb. Is there a pcb manufacturing service that might do this for small orders? Any other ideas? Right now I am doing it by hand and making very slow, irregular progress.16:47
superkuh~2mm apart.16:47
superkuhLike: http://superkuh.ath.cx/users/superkuh/Library/000-Physics/Muon%20Detection/0-Thick%20Gas%20Electron%20Multipliers/thgem_drillpattern.png16:50
kanzureyou should also ask ##electronics16:50
superkuhI have, a couple times.16:50
superkuhI probably will again.16:50
kanzureare you ok if i relay your question over email?16:51
superkuhYes.16:51
kanzuretodo: read http://mises.org/story/3783 (some economics crap)16:53
kanzuresuperkuh: done. i'll be sure to send responses your way. sorry i don't know off the top of my head16:53
superkuhOkay. Thanks.16:53
kanzuretodo: read http://mises.org/story/3631 (more economics crap)16:54
kanzuresuperkuh: how about e-teknet? there's a $275 setup fee.17:05
kanzurei may or may not be right about that- they might have a 30 order minimum17:07
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kanzure"I should start writing emails asking why you haven't been working on it."17:11
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fennthere's a typo? in that lego file.. it points to screw.yaml17:25
kanzurella;kfal;fal;a17:25
kanzuredamn editors!17:25
* kanzure points the finger at r. u. sirius17:25
fennactually it shouldnt be pointing to fennetic.net either17:25
kanzurethe answer to r. u. sirius is "apparently not"17:25
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fennisnt that obvious?17:29
fennif you've ever read the cyberpunk fakebook17:30
fennhttp://www.gutenberg.org/dirs/etext97/fakeb10.txt17:31
kanzurei have not17:32
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fenni wonder if it goes on or they just wrote the first chapter17:45
kanzureshould i ask him?17:48
kanzuresuperkuh: how about http://4pcb.com/ ?17:55
kanzuresuperkuh: another person suggests trying a water jet or machining with some small bits17:55
superkuhI have requested quotes from futurelec and ourpcb so far. I will check out 4pcb.17:55
superkuhI keep getting contradicting information about hole cost on different IRC networks.17:56
kanzuresuperkuh: someone suggests mounting a dremel on a makerbot or somesuch.18:10
fenndoes it have to be plastic? you could do photo etching with brass sheet and laser toner transfer method18:25
kanzurePICdude says: "I'm guessing the issue is that you already have the PCB, which is why18:37
kanzureyou can't just order one?  I'd also guess the board to be just around18:37
kanzure4" x 4" (based on hole spacing you specified), so any CNC mill should18:37
kanzurebe able to handle this very easily.  If it were me, I'd do it on my18:37
kanzureCNC mill, but you may be able to find a local machine shop with a CNC18:37
kanzuremill to do it for you."18:37
superkuhfenn: It needs to act as a capacitor with holes in it.18:38
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kanzurehello cis-action 18:41
kanzurelong time no see18:41
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kanzurekfajajka18:41
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kanzureQuantumG: are you a relative of "james coddington"?18:42
hundred-ideashi kanzure 18:42
kanzurewelcome back18:42
QuantumGno18:43
kanzurehundred-ideas: this was published earlier today: http://hplusmagazine.com/articles/toys-tools/hackerspace-your-garage-downloading-diy-hardware-over-web18:43
QuantumGand btw, names don't work like that :)18:43
kanzureQuantumG: it might have been a minor morphophonetic mutation :)18:44
QuantumGyep, some sort of hamming distance measure of relatives18:44
kanzureheh18:44
hundred-ideas...reading...18:45
kanzurethere's a few comments piling up at the bottom too18:46
hundred-ideasrad18:50
hundred-ideasvery cool, kanzure 18:50
hundred-ideasbut at what point is it more efficient to print pipet tips rather than buy them?  If you have a massive poly-lactic acid algal biosynthesis tank connected to your reprap?18:53
kanzureyou'd probably do the jobs in bulk, i.e. make a batch of pipette tips for a few months supply19:00
kanzurenow whether or not you need pipette tips could become an issue of debate in the near future ;-) i.e. what if you had a pipeteless lab workflow?19:01
hundred-ideasthat sounds great19:02
QuantumGohh, help me coin a new buzzword "dry workflow"19:03
kanzuredryflow19:03
hundred-ideasrobotics w/ self-cleaning tips?  or microfluidics?19:03
kanzuremicrofluidics probably, it's what i'm wokring on now19:03
kanzurein a week or so i hope to have a youtube video up (with a kickass song to go with it!) demoing everything from design to testing19:03
hundred-ideashave you met Romie from LA19:03
kanzureno19:03
kanzureQuantumG: "dry flow" sounds good to me..19:04
hundred-ideasHe is working on a modular microfluidics platform such that you could combine an electroporator, cell-sorter, and microscope into one compound unit19:05
katsmeow-afkhttp://www.kk.org/thetechnium/archives/2007/03/bootstrapping_t.php "A lather has those self-reproductive qualities." huh?19:05
kanzurehundred-ideas: yep, i've seen some articles on stuff like that19:05
kanzureis it all open source? or is he just bullshitting you19:06
kanzuresorry, that's a loaded question19:07
katsmeow-afk"In this way, his tiny machine shop was an upcreation device, capable of generating higher a machine of precision than itself." ??19:07
kanzureum. i mean to ask: what is the licensing19:07
kanzurekatsmeow-afk: kevin probably meant to write "lathe" instead of "lather"19:07
hundred-ideaswell, I guess I would first make the distinction between vaporware and real things, and then closed and open versions of real things19:07
kanzuresure19:07
kanzurealthough if it's closed, is it real? ;)19:07
hundred-ideasI think he would like to sell kits, but as has been demonstrated a variety of times, open source kits sell19:08
kanzuremight as well not be real if it's closed19:08
kanzureyeah19:08
hundred-ideas... are intel chips open source?19:08
kanzurethat's what the gnusha business model is shaping up to be19:08
kanzurehundred-ideas: no. but there are some open source RISC designs out there19:08
hundred-ideasbut it's real19:08
kanzurehave you heard of, i dunno, arduino?19:08
kanzurei would rather count on an arduino over an intel chip19:08
hundred-ideasDo you consider your brain open-source?19:09
kanzurealthough, arduino is mostly the software around teh chip19:09
kanzure*the19:09
kanzurehundred-ideas: fuck i just disappeared19:09
Utopiahhttp://wiki.seedea.org/Utopiahanalysis/HiTechCreativity-draft#CPUs19:09
kanzurewhere have i gone19:09
kanzurei vanished in a poof of logic :(19:09
hundred-ideasguess you aren't open-source after all19:09
kanzurei'd be willing to give you my genome if i had it19:09
kanzureer, i mean, the data to it19:10
kanzurei'm sure you've already stolen my hair or something19:10
kanzureanyway, i was talking about contigency planning19:10
hundred-ideashaha right. so we should make a distinction between having the knowledge of how something works vs. being allowed to use the knowledge in various legal frameworks19:10
kanzureyeah it's just worth pointing out that if he's not sharing that tech in a liberally licensed manner, it's going to be hard for me to steal it or make use of it19:11
hundred-ideaswell, wait to see what he says19:11
katsmeow-afki looked at http://www.kk.org/thetechnium/archives/2007/03/bootstrapping_t.php in Ie and Ff, there's no captcha in either19:11
kanzuresure19:11
hundred-ideasI just emailed you both19:11
kanzurethanks i just got it19:12
kanzureRomie Littrell?19:12
hundred-ideasaffirmative19:13
nshanyone have a botnet lying around?19:50
nshor a rapidshare account19:50
kanzureheh19:57
kanzurei might have a rapidshare account19:57
kanzurelet me pm you the login deets19:57
kanzurensh: did that work?19:59
nshnups19:59
kanzurefucks19:59
nshnothing too vital though19:59
nshjust leonard susskind's black hole wars19:59
nshi'll grab it in parts20:00
kanzureoh, fenn should have that on his server20:00
nshah20:00
kanzurefenn: ping?20:00
kanzureupdated: http://designfiles.org/~bryan/meetlog/2009-10-01_to_2010-03-01.png20:05
kanzureoooh20:05
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nshinteresting graph20:06
kanzurethe purple line has an interesting function going on20:07
kanzurehttp://www.filestube.com/d98c0caa2cae06f003ea,g/InboundMarketingGoogle.html20:11
kanzurehttp://www.amazon.com/Inbound-Marketing-Found-Google-Social/dp/047049931120:11
kanzurehttp://www.protocolpedia.com/ fuck it's just a landing page :(20:33
kanzureex-amgen employees doing local drug manufacturing http://www.curepharmaceutical.com/ andrew hessel is trying to pull them into my never-ending vortex20:39
fennyou stalked 58 people today?20:42
kanzureno i talked with 58 people today, stalked only 920:43
fenni'm not sure which is worse20:43
kanzurei'm terrible.20:43
fennterrorific20:43
kanzurehm, andrew hessel is going to talk with richard wallace next week20:44
fennthat doesn't really make any sense20:44
kanzure:(20:45
fennthe chatbot guy?20:45
kanzureyes20:46
kanzurealice20:46
kanzurepersonalized annual reports from the quantified self peeps http://vimeo.com/911706420:54
kanzurefenn: haha. you know, it's not a "stalk log" per-se..the red line is people that *voluntarily* communicated21:02
ybitactually kanzure threatens to ddos my machines if i don't communicate each day ;)21:14
kanzuredamn right, i have a whole botnet just waiting 21:14
bkerobotnet?  Can I has?21:17
kanzureyou /are/ the botnet21:17
ybitkanzure: cool, you got to write an article for h+ magazine21:27
ybitwho is surfdaddy orca?21:28
ybityour new pseudonym?21:28
ybit:)21:28
ybitfenn?21:28
* ybit goes back to suckage for a few hours21:29
kanzuregreg campbell21:31
bkeroHey guys, could you proofread an article for me, maybe give me suggestions?21:46
bkerohttp://blueheaven.ws/2010/02/17/installing-windows-vista7-the-lazy-way/21:46
* fenn looks21:48
kanzurehttp://www.vitaeinstitute.org/21:49
kanzurethey helped livly.org raise money?21:49
fennnot enough money, apparently21:49
fennbkero: step 11, you should probably explain what the user is trying to do (make the partition bootable)21:53
bkerofenn: Yea, that part is a bit tricky, ok.21:54
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kanzurehello Redeemer, JayDugger 21:57
JayDuggerhello Kanzure.21:57
kanzurearticle was published today: http://hplusmagazine.com/articles/toys-tools/hackerspace-your-garage-downloading-diy-hardware-over-web21:57
JayDuggerI suspect OSHBM won't have any feeds unless we publish it as a web page. I think this also prevents it from having a feed for its revision history.21:58
JayDugger(Sorry for the crap sentence. Not yet awake.)21:58
JayDuggerCongratulations on the article. I'll read it at work.21:59
RedeemerEvenin21:59
kanzurei see21:59
bkerokanzure: Do you know anybody with a 3d printer?  My local LUG is constructing a Reprap and need RP parts.21:59
kanzureyes22:00
JayDuggerThere's a fellow in Canada, Ottawa I think, who has sold RepRap parts on eBay.22:00
RedeemerFound out my local hackerspace is willing to get their hands on a fancy 3D printer if at least 6 members request one, friggin sweet22:00
kanzuretim schmidt comes around here often, has oogles and oogles of parts22:00
bkeroWhat's his handle?22:00
JayDuggerMust be nice.22:00
kanzureRedeemer: fancy? why does it have to be fancy22:00
kanzurebkero: "Tim Schmidt" <timschmidt@gmail.com> tell him i sent you22:00
RedeemerBecause they want high resolution22:00
bkerokanzure: Should I email him then?  Thanks. :)22:00
kanzurebkero: yeah, or chat if he's around22:01
RedeemerHigh resolution and good space tolerance22:01
kanzureyou guys suck, comment more on the article's page :P22:01
JayDuggerAnyhow, you might want to get that contributors list turned into a web form know that the H+ article is out.22:01
bkerokanzure: Sweet, thanks.  I'll be sure to print some kind of homage to you/tim as the repraps first production.22:01
kanzurea webform?22:01
kanzurebkero: if he doesn't come through for you, i have lots of others22:01
JayDuggerIf the article will hit the print copy, then I strongly suggest having that form ready.22:01
kanzurei see22:01
RedeemerI'll read the article once I get done relocating in a bit22:02
kanzurei don't actually care about the contributor list22:02
kanzuregoogle keeps track of that22:02
JayDuggerSorry, the /potential/ contributors list. 22:02
kanzureoh22:02
kanzurehm, that might be nifty22:02
JayDuggerWho did I invite, when did I invite them, what did they say, etc...22:02
JayDuggerAnyhow, I need to get back to IRL housekeeping and $DAYJOB...22:03
JayDuggerAs for the 3d printers, you might see if any local high school shop classes are interested in participating. Just a though.22:04
JayDuggerthought, rather.22:04
JayDuggerGood night, all.22:04
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bkerokanzure: nice article22:20
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kanzurebodybugg?23:13
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