2010-02-25.log

--- Day changed Thu Feb 25 2010
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kanzurecan someone give me a molecular biology definition of allele? none of this genetics crap00:57
katsmeow[00:58] <katsmeow> tiggr, define allele00:58
katsmeow[00:58] <[Tiggr]>  allele : (genetics) either of a pair (or series) of alternative forms of a gene that can occupy the same locus on a particular chromosome and that control the same character; "some alleles are dominant over others"00:58
katsmeowoops, that's genetics00:58
kanzuredkldsakfjalds;kfjasl;00:58
* katsmeow looks ashamed00:58
kanzureblame tiggr00:58
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* ybit blames the education systems01:11
ybits/systems/system01:11
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* ybit pokes chupadupa 01:11
katsmeowwell, i am a lil surprised she had any clue at all01:11
* ybit wonders how one is to go about pacing in a hospital..01:12
katsmeowhallways01:12
katsmeowwhy would you want to pace in a hospital?01:13
ybityeah, there's a really long one out there.. i just think it might be odd for them01:13
ybiti need to pace01:13
katsmeowand so you go to a hospital to pace? why not pace at home??01:13
ybitoh, i'm stuck here for the night01:14
katsmeowwhere?01:14
ybit(grandfather)01:14
ybitecm, florence, al01:14
katsmeowecm?01:14
katsmeowelectric countermeasures?01:14
ybiteliza coffee memorial hospital01:14
katsmeowoh,,, er, ouch01:14
ybitthere's a hellen keller hospital across the river01:15
ybitanyway, the carbs are kicking in from my chinese food, i need to go afk for a bit01:15
katsmeowbe safe01:15
Utopiahhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/02/22/the-bloom-box-a-power-plant-for-the-home-video/01:16
* ybit straps into his exoskeleton01:16
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--- Log closed Thu Feb 25 06:15:21 2010
--- Log opened Thu Feb 25 06:16:32 2010
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kanzurehey akem09:59
akemhi kanzure 10:04
kanzurehttp://www.kk.org/cooltools/archives/004214.php makerbot on kk.org10:05
kanzurehttp://www.hizook.com/blog/2009/12/20/ultra-low-cost-laser-rangefinders-actualized-neato-robotics10:14
kanzurevideo of the world's oldest man: http://www.kfbb.com/news/local/85265392.html10:17
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genehackerfenn didn't you say the phillips head is obsolete or something of that nature?10:53
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JayDuggerkanzure: Any luck with putting the new volunteer to work?11:10
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kanzure"bryan: so I asked Fearless Leader, and he thinks that if a plan could lead up to access to things like hobbyist-level TCMS, or being able to quickly think through and test aspects of other DIY project ideas (mostly biotech), those are points in its favor"11:11
JayDuggerTCMS?11:11
kanzureJayDugger: we're meeting on saturday at 4pm11:12
kanzureJayDugger: transcranial magnetic stimulation11:12
JayDuggerThat makes your last post extra intriguing.11:12
kanzure"Fearless Leader" is eliezer yudkowsky11:13
JayDuggerI thought he'd a less sanguine opinion of TCMS.11:13
kanzureme too11:14
kanzurei haven't seen anything indicating a change in heart11:14
JayDuggerWho's the antecedent of the pronoun "I" in your post?11:14
kanzuresteve rayhawk11:14
JayDuggerHmm...I don't know him by name or reputation.11:15
kanzureyou might know "joe rayhawk", a kinda debian developer sortakinda11:15
kanzurehttp://lesswrong.com/user/Steve_Rayhawk/11:15
JayDuggerAhh...I fell behind reading OB, and never caught up once they were on LW.11:15
kanzurei never read either of them11:16
kanzurei was however once in their rationalism cult up in new york city11:16
JayDuggerIt reminded me too much of the speculative posts on Exi-Chat.11:16
kanzuredo you still read extropy-chat?11:16
JayDuggerNo.11:16
kanzurei've been on the list since 2007 i think11:16
kanzurepeople keep on comparing me to eliezer.. i dunno what to think about that11:17
JayDuggerI miss the good old days...(blah, blah, blah...)11:17
JayDuggerYou're taller, I think.11:17
kanzurethe 80s? :P11:17
kanzureslightly.. i met eli in person once.11:17
kanzuretwice11:17
JayDuggerI'm not quite that old. Max More and Greg Burch have a few years on me. :)11:17
kanzuremax lives down the street from me11:17
JayDuggerDoes he?11:18
kanzurenatasha is so sweet11:18
JayDuggerI've met Burch and Yudkowsky, but not Sandberg nor you--for that matter.11:18
kanzureanders is socially awkward, but very fun to talk with11:18
JayDuggerLike my Swedish relatives.11:19
kanzureand eli is lost in his own world :/11:19
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JayDuggerYeah...I have the strong suspicion at some time he gave up on AI.11:20
kanzurethen what is he doing??11:20
JayDuggerBut he's quite a lot smarter than I am, and I really don't know.11:20
JayDuggerWorking out a rational ethical system?11:20
kanzuregah you guys need to stop saying things like that, it only feeds his ego11:20
JayDuggerYeah, but I've met LOTS of people smarter than I am.11:21
kanzurehttp://heybryan.org/eli.html11:21
kanzuremy criticisms, along with others11:21
JayDuggerI've also met lots of people TALLER or FATTER or <MODIFIER><ATTRIBUTE> than I am.11:21
JayDuggerSo it's an observation first, and a compliment second.11:22
kanzurecheck the link11:24
JayDuggerI am.11:24
JayDugger"ludic fallacy?" Does that come from Taleb's The Black Swan?11:25
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JayDuggerJef Albright--that's another person I'd like to meet. Him, Nick Szabo, and Eugen Leitl.11:26
JayDuggerAnd while I wish: Robert Bradbury.11:29
kanzureallbright11:30
JayDuggerYou're right; my mistake.11:30
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JayDuggerDoes Jeff Allbright always write like Bucky Fuller?11:33
kanzureif that's the style on that page, then yeah :/11:33
kanzurei like it actually11:34
JayDuggerYeah. I read Synergetics and Critical Path in high school, and Fuller's phrases and neologisms took real effort to decode.11:34
JayDuggerThe <adverb->[adjective]-[adjective],<adverb->[adjective]-[adjective], construction is right out of Fuller.11:37
JayDuggerAll right. The clock says past my bedtime. Good day, everyone.11:38
kanzuregood day, sir11:38
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kanzure"In other news, when we classified coin tosses into a "heads" group and a "tails" group, we found that the "heads" group contained 100% heads results, no matter how many times the coin was tossed ... we conclude therefore that randomness is an illusion."11:46
kanzureguh? interesting interpretation of thomas hobbes: http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1562276&cid=31269108 (sorry to break the no-philosophy rule)11:47
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kanzureabstract: "People tend not to listen to your message if they view it as threatening to their livelihood, their community, or their ego." :P11:50
Utopiah##philosophy of marketing?11:51
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kanzurehttp://www.syntheticaesthetics.org/12:44
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kanzurehttp://www.ubuntugeek.com/myhdl-python-based-hardware-description-language.html12:48
kanzurehm12:48
kanzuredoesn't seem to load12:48
kanzurehttp://myhdl.org/12:48
kanzure"MyHDL is an open source Python package that lets you go from Python to silicon. With MyHDL, you can use Python as a hardware description and verification language. Furthermore, you can convert implementation-oriented MyHDL code to Verilog and VHDL automatically, and take it to a silicon implementation from there. "12:49
kanzurethey use it: http://www.dilloneng.com/12:49
kanzurehttp://www.myhdl.org/doku.php/projects:interactive_simulation_using_ipython12:51
kanzureexamples of flip flops and latches: http://www.myhdl.org/doku.php/cookbook:ff12:54
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kanzurestalk: MrTor13:30
kanzure"python course in bioinformatics" http://www.pasteur.fr/recherche/unites/sis/formation/python/13:31
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kanzurehm what's going on here? http://github.com/technoweenie14:02
kanzurehttp://github.com/mchelen/plos-alm-tools14:07
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CIA-47brain: kanzure master * rf7e7a7a / human_brain.yaml : extraneous updates - http://bit.ly/cBUcCo14:11
kanzurehttp://code-saturne.blogspot.com/2010/02/cfd-example-laminar-flow-along-2d.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+FreeYourCfd+%28Free+your+CFD%29 via jelle14:18
kanzurewhat is makergear?14:23
kanzurehttp://groups.google.com/group/makergear14:23
kanzurehttp://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1992078142/building-the-open-source-bussard-fusion-reactor14:25
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stragesmakergear looks interesting, they appear to be a one stop shop for reprap/makerbot parts14:28
kanzureoh, "fearless leader" is michael vassar14:28
strageslike heater parts, etc14:29
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kanzure(02:43:13 PM) Nathan McCorkle: i had lunch with richard stallman yesterday14:43
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kanzure(02:46:54 PM) Nathan McCorkle: after we dropped him at the bus station, we were all like, was he just pissed off at that guy?14:46
kanzurehehe14:46
kanzurefenn, are you around? (02:49:16 PM) Nathan McCorkle: so do you write the driver for EMC?14:48
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kanzuremore on the p2p osh bank: http://antipastohw.blogspot.com/2009/03/introducing-open-source-hardware.html14:52
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genehackerthey should have asked stallman to do something about the "open source makes you an enemy of capitalism thing"15:00
NoahjStallman doesn't care about open source15:14
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kanzureNoahj: bingo.15:24
kanzurehttp://www.crisiscommons.org/16:13
kanzuregah pythonocc guy is saying "wow email sucks, let's move to google wave!!111one" why does this issue always come up16:16
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kanzurehttp://globalhealthideas.org/2009/07/7-steps-for-building-low-cost-open-source-technologies-for-global-health/16:20
kanzurehttp://nursingassistantguides.com/2009/50-successful-open-source-projects-that-are-changing-medicine/16:21
kanzurehttp://ourmed.org/16:28
kanzurehttp://chileforge.cl/projects/osiris/16:28
kanzurehttp://www.sistemahospitalario.blogspot.com/16:28
kanzurehttp://www.askapatient.com/16:29
kanzurehttp://gforge.openehealth.org/gf/project/ipf/16:29
kanzurehttp://www.biomobius.com/16:29
kanzurehttp://www.osirix-viewer.com/16:29
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kanzurehttp://openspirometry.org/ stalk: dan van sickle16:29
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kanzuredoesn't look like they actually have any content/files16:31
kanzurestalk: dan van sickle16:35
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kanzure[4:36:57 PM] Suresh Fernando: You have to realize im twice your age and know infintely more about business than you do16:38
kanzure[4:37:05 PM] Suresh Fernando: You know JACK about business and working wiht others16:38
kanzure[4:37:28 PM] Bryan Bishop: i guess now you're going to tell me that you're better than me because you have more friends?16:38
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genehackerstallman wouldn't care about making free software illegal?16:50
kanzuretwo different things16:50
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genehackerI'm confused16:54
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kanzuregenehacker: "open source" software is a business term. "free software" is free-as-in-freedom16:57
kanzurei suck at explaining it16:57
genehackerok16:57
genehackerhttp://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/blog/2010/feb/23/opensource-intellectual-property16:57
genehackerhe'd be pissed at this then16:57
genehackercriminalization of pretty much both16:57
kanzurei wonder how many watts it takes to run a makerbot17:02
kanzurecould you generate the power needed via peddling a bike?17:02
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digitaltaoIf you peddled rather quickly ;)17:07
digitaltaoMotor + Heating the Plastic + Extrusion. 17:08
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kanzurei think i'm going to break off suresh from the project17:11
kanzurei just can't work with someone like that17:11
kanzure:(17:11
kanzurewell that's disappointing. datapkg might be not actually packaging data, and just providing links?17:17
kanzurehttp://ckan.net/package/tuberculist17:17
kanzureanother case: http://ckan.net/package/32000-naples-florida-businesses-kml17:19
kanzurehttp://www.reprapsurvey.org/17:37
kanzurehttp://blog.reprap.org/2008/11/announcing-thingiversecom.html the original announcement saying thingiverse.com uses povray for rendering17:41
kanzurehttp://counter.reprap.org/stl2web/povray-render-stl.tgz17:42
kanzurehttp://counter.reprap.org/stl2web/17:42
kanzurehttp://reprap.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/reprap/trunk/users/erik/stl2web17:42
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kanzure"Have you guys read about the off-label use scandal for Repoxygen - a17:59
kanzurecommercially available virus that modifies the users DNA."17:59
kanzurehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Repoxygen17:59
kanzure"Repoxygen is the tradename for a type of gene therapy that induces controlled release of erythropoietin (EPO) in response to low oxygen concentration. It is has been developed by Oxford Biomedica to treat anaemia. It has been developed in mice, is still in preclinical development and has not been extensively tested in humans."17:59
kanzure"The German track and field coach Thomas Springstein and Rashid Ramzi are currently suspected to have used Repoxygen."18:00
kanzure"gene doping" woot18:00
kanzure# Yoshimi M, Maeyama T, Yamada M, Hamada N, Fukumoto J, Kawaguchi T, Kuwano K, & Nakanishi Y. (2008). Recombinant human erythropoietin reduces epithelial cell apoptosis and attenuates bleomycin-induced pneumonitis in mice. Respirology 13(5). 639-645.18:00
kanzure# Percy MJ. (2008). Familial erythrocytosis arising from a gain-of-function mutation in the HIF2A gene of the oxygen sensing pathway. Ulster Medical Journal 77(2). 86-88.18:00
QuantumGnice18:05
kanzurejust posted about it: http://groups.google.com/group/diybio/t/43ac9f00719f3866 (it's just a copy of the wikipedia article)18:06
kanzurealso, there's a *crapload* of results for http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q="gain-of-function+mutation"18:06
kanzure"A gain-of-function mutation in the sodium channel gene Scn2a results in seizures" hm wrong kinda function?18:07
kanzurehm i wonder if they're going to start recording parents genomes for participants in sports18:10
kanzureand if a player's genome is obviously impossible to come up with given the two parents, to consider them to have been doing gene doping18:10
kanzurehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gene_doping18:11
kanzurehttp://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2008/08/080814-gene-doping.html "how gene doping could create enhanced olympians"18:12
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QuantumGare you still on arocket kanzure?18:13
kanzuregene doping survey: http://www.geneforum.org/files/Survey%20Summary%20Public.pdf18:13
kanzureQuantumG: yeah. haven't read your latest thread though18:13
kanzurelots of other fun links on gene doping: http://www.geneforum.org/node/48018:14
kanzureew.. a campaign against it already? http://www.foe.org/healthy-people/campaign-against-gene-doping18:14
QuantumGis there a list of gene doping, err, treatments?18:14
QuantumGcause to me, gene doping == self funding clinical trial18:15
kanzureyeah no kidding18:15
kanzureit's weird how i'm always the last to know about these things though18:16
kanzurei.e., gene doping was suspected as early as 2006 in the olympics18:16
QuantumGso I'd love to have a nice list of techniques that have actually worked... maybe there's a list of people who have been busted?18:16
kanzurehm18:16
kanzurehttp://www.genedoping.com/18:17
QuantumGsurely their "fair trial" would include details of how they've allegedly been genetically improved.18:17
kanzure"In 2003, WADA put gene doping on its prohibited list"18:17
kanzureGene Doping: A Review of Performance-Enhancing Genetics (GR Gaffney)18:17
QuantumGI believe it was in Red Dwarf, the novelization, that they suggested we need a superhuman games already18:18
QuantumGin fact, let's call it the Transhuman Olympics18:19
kanzurehere we go:18:19
kanzurehttp://designfiles.org/papers/Gene%20doping%20-%20a%20review%20of%20performance-enhancing%20genetics.pdf18:19
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kanzurereference 10 in that doc has a list of genes that you can target for athletic performance18:21
kanzure(based off of exercise physiology)18:21
kanzureACE, ACTN3, endorphins, EPO, HGH, HIF, IGF-1, myostatin (heck yeah), PPAR-delta, VEGF18:21
kanzure(page 812)18:22
kanzurehttp://designfiles.org/papers/gene_doping_for_sports_enhancement.png18:23
QuantumGhello massive source of income for transhumanism18:24
kanzureheh18:25
kanzuretodd was going to fund a myostatin gene therapy project that i pitched him, but i got distracted or something18:25
kanzureactually, a more profitable gene to dope on would be the set that did the glyxolytic shunt for fat burning18:27
QuantumGdude, make that happen18:28
kanzureyeah?18:28
QuantumGdo you know how much people pay for weight loss?18:29
kanzureno18:29
* QuantumG resists making a fat joke.. I'm pretty fat myself18:29
kanzureresistance is futile18:29
QuantumGok, I've got a question for ya18:30
QuantumGwhen people lose a whole lot of weight their skin doesn't contract18:30
kanzureever?18:30
QuantumGever18:30
QuantumGthey either live with it or they get surgery18:30
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QuantumGis there a genetic manipulation solution?18:31
QuantumGor even a traditional drug..18:32
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kanzurei don't know what to search for18:33
QuantumGhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tummy_tuck18:33
QuantumGbut it's not just tummys18:33
QuantumGskin tightening on the arms is more common, cause you can't hide it18:34
QuantumGhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body_shaping18:36
QuantumGhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brachioplasty18:37
kanzurewhat if they lose weight gradually?18:41
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QuantumGas far as I'm aware, people who have been above the obesity threshold for any significant portion of their lives have stretched their skin so much that it never contracts.18:43
QuantumGand, when you think about it, contracting skin isn't exactly an evolutionary necessity.18:43
kanzurehm we've only talked about VEGF 13 times? that sounds too low18:46
kanzurehttp://openwetware.org/dumps/ daily backups yay18:47
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kanzure(07:00:40 PM) Andrew Hessel: btw, i told bre he should pay more attention to you19:00
kanzureO_o19:00
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kanzure(07:01:27 PM) Andrew Hessel: they've sold 1000 makerbots19:01
kanzureapparently they are looking for funding19:01
QuantumGI think I asked already but what do these makerbots do?19:01
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kanzurethey spit out plastic19:02
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genehackerhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poka-yoke20:12
* katsmeow-afk suggests it isn't working so well for Toyota20:15
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fenni had a dream about poka yoke, something about bananas. it was a bad pun in japanese but now i forget20:20
fennmyHDL is cool20:20
kanzurewhudda bout like, python20:20
fenneh?20:20
kanzurehttp://www.staringispolite.com/likepython/20:21
kanzure  uh from sys import exit20:21
kanzure  ok so like name = raw_input("yo! what's your name?" ) right20:21
fennum yeah like whatever bro20:21
kanzureparse error20:22
fennum yeah like whatever, bro20:22
kanzuresome day we're all going to be unsurprised to discover that you're a simple permutation engine20:22
fenni am not so thorough20:23
fenni should get headed to baypiggies20:23
kanzurepython interest group?20:23
fennlaptop crashed (locked up solid) yesterday; calcurse data was all gone20:24
fenni should send a bug report or something20:24
kanzurehm, an ncurses task manager20:24
kanzureoh i get it. curse20:24
fennyeah, fuck calendars20:24
fennanyway it's the best thing i could find that worked in a terminal20:25
fennciao20:25
katsmeow-afk A CIA drone attack in one of Pakistan's tribal areas last week killed the brother of a senior Afghan Taliban commander instead of the commander himself..... The near miss suggests the agency's intelligence about the Afghan commander's movements inside Pakistan has increased significantly. 20:25
katsmeow-afki just cannot get my head around that20:25
kanzureif ybit shows up he's going to tell you about emacs+orgs-mode again20:25
kanzurecya20:25
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kanzurethere's a new comment on the article http://hplusmagazine.com/articles/toys-tools/hackerspace-your-garage-downloading-diy-hardware-over-web21:29
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ybitorg-mode is amazing :)21:52
ybitbut fenn got it right in his last statement when i brought up ezbl21:53
ybit21:37 < fenn> i guess i don't really want a browser inside my text editor21:53
ybiti've been letting my window manager manage windows lately instead of emacs, it seems quicker and less clumsy21:56
ybite.g. type M-x terminal-emulator21:56
ybitit just doesn't doesn't work as well and you can't kill the buffer like you typically do, you have type exit in the emulator or ctl-d, then C-x k21:58
ybityou can't ctl-left or ctl-right, use left arrow or right arrow, or even alt-b/alt-f21:59
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ybitanyway, i feel like their should be a "he was then enlightened" hovering over my head as i slowly came to this realization22:02
* ybit was referencing master foo from esb22:09
ybiter, esr22:09
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kanzureyou people bore me22:11
* ybit adds more boring text22:17
ybits/their/there22:17
JayDuggerVigorous physical exercise cures boredom. Try it.22:20
JayDuggerNo takers?22:25
ybitno thanks, but i'll send one of my bots on a marathon scrape if it makes you feel better22:28
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* ybit bored JayDugger out of the room22:30
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kanzurehave you fixed hplusbot yet?22:43
QuantumGoh, that reminds me22:55
QuantumGkanzure22:55
QuantumGwhy do you tweet that worthless [skdb] shit?22:55
kanzurehopefully someone cares22:56
QuantumGthat's why I unfollowed you the first time22:56
QuantumGand I started following you again because I read your feed and found stuff that was actually interesting22:56
kanzurei see22:56
QuantumGcreate a new account... kanzure-skdb or something.. people can follow that if they want skdb shit22:56
QuantumGwith the list functionality twitter has now you could create an skdb-commits list22:57
QuantumGand multiple people could contribute.. or something22:57
QuantumGor just create an skdb account and automate posting commit messages to it22:58
kanzurethe commit messages are presently automated from github.com22:58
kanzureanyway, i'll change it22:58
kanzureyou're my first complainer22:59
kanzurenot like i use it for anything22:59
QuantumGI do that well22:59
kanzurebut, on another note, why are you using twitter O.o22:59
QuantumGI see value in realtime space news22:59
QuantumGand the conversation aspect of it is interesting too23:01
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QuantumGhttp://mfile-dca.akamai.com/12032/mp3/kurzweil.download.akamai.com/12032/kain/CharlieKam_Singularitarian.asx23:17
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QuantumGmm.. 2006, it was a good year23:20
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QuantumGmmm.. 2006, it was a good year, a very good year.. oohh, I think I have an idea for a song. Nah, it's been done. http://bit.ly/akQxyS23:22
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