| --- Day changed Mon Mar 01 2010 | ||
| kanzure | various gloves, some with accelerometers http://worldinventions.blogspot.com/2008/09/top-5-diy-glove-keyboards.html | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| kanzure | acceleration sensing glove ("virtual keyboard") http://web.archive.org/web/20080621115011/http://www-bsac.eecs.berkeley.edu/archive/users/hollar-seth/fingeracc/fingeracc.html | 00:01 |
| kanzure | what's the sampling rate on an accelerometer? | 00:03 |
| genehacker | >1hz | 00:03 |
| genehacker | pretty fast | 00:03 |
| genehacker | depends on the accelerometer | 00:03 |
| kanzure | i would be bragging the hell out about that, but i don't see any discussion on data entry rates in the papers on that last link | 00:04 |
| kanzure | ew | 00:04 |
| genehacker | ugh | 00:04 |
| genehacker | this is bad | 00:04 |
| genehacker | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accelerometer | 00:04 |
| kanzure | "28 hand gestures are recognizable with acquisition times up to 1 character per second" | 00:04 |
| kanzure | (for that last link) | 00:05 |
| genehacker | >10 Hz | 00:05 |
| genehacker | I am disappoint | 00:05 |
| kanzure | 1 character/sec is basically 1/12th the current standard | 00:05 |
| kanzure | but this might have been because of some recognition algorithms they were implementing | 00:05 |
| QuantumG | still, it's interesting from a "hey wearable, I'm pointing at something, locate it and tell me what it is" perspective | 00:05 |
| genehacker | I still like the idea of the smart dust keyboard | 00:06 |
| genehacker | where you apply smart dust accelerometers to the tips of your fingers and start typing | 00:07 |
| genehacker | http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=248 | 00:07 |
| genehacker | 590 Hz | 00:07 |
| kanzure | i wonder if anyone else recognizes how absurdly slow these things are | 00:07 |
| kanzure | http://ilab.cs.ucsb.edu/projects/mathias/KolschKeyboards.pdf has a review of virtual keyboards on page 7 | 00:08 |
| kanzure | the max cpm that they record is 250 | 00:08 |
| genehacker | now that senseboard is neat from a neat perspective | 00:10 |
| kanzure | heh i liked this one, a wearable keyboard user for 8 years http://designfiles.org/papers/unsorted/Everyday%20Wearable%20Computer%20Use:%20A%20Case%20Study%20of%20an%20Expert%20User.pdf | 00:17 |
| kanzure | he only uses emacs and a shell with it, plus a monocle HUD | 00:17 |
| kanzure | :) | 00:18 |
| kanzure | "and eth proposal to samsung" eth0? | 00:19 |
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| kanzure | 60wpm on the twiddler2.. not terrible | 00:21 |
| kanzure | http://handykey.com/ | 00:21 |
| kanzure | but expensive, and not accelerometers | 00:21 |
| kanzure | review: http://www.wap.org/journal/twiddler/default.html | 00:21 |
| kanzure | "On a regular keyboard, I can usually bang out about 80 words per minute, but with the Twiddler I can occasionally push it up to 85 WPM when I am really focused." | 00:22 |
| kanzure | that last quote was from http://www.linux.com/archive/feed/50870?theme=print | 00:23 |
| kanzure | more outdated info: http://web.archive.org/web/20021205113412/http://www.1stresource.com/~mistered/twiddle.htm | 00:24 |
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| kanzure | blah only 3 keys for the android accelerometer: http://www.activationrecord.net/radekp/openmoko/android/accelkbd_rootfs.tar.gz | 00:29 |
| kanzure | :P | 00:29 |
| kanzure | " | 00:32 |
| kanzure | Recognizing Postures in Vietnamese Sign Language With MEMS Accelerometers | 00:32 |
| genehacker | argh, now what's that japanese hacker one handed keyboard thing... | 00:33 |
| kanzure | hm, this is interesting: http://www.linuxfordevices.com/c/a/News/HTC-TMobile-MyTouch-3G-35mm/ touch-based keyboard where you don't lift up until you are done with a word | 00:34 |
| kanzure | blah i just need one study of someone who put accelerometers on fingers and watched a fast typist do his thang | 00:36 |
| genehacker | 3 axis accelerometers? | 00:38 |
| genehacker | on each finger? | 00:38 |
| genehacker | sound horrendously expensive | 00:38 |
| genehacker | but then again maybe they'll get so cheap, they can be used in disposable products | 00:42 |
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| kanzure | now available for download: http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/um/india/projects/biocoder/ | 00:57 |
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| kanzure | wonder what happened to them: http://web.archive.org/web/20060208134716/http://www.microoptical.net/ | 01:11 |
| kanzure | "They project the information where you need it most — right in front of you." i feel stupid reading this | 01:11 |
| kanzure | grumble grumble, $2k? | 01:13 |
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| genehacker | retinal projection is cooler | 01:21 |
| kanzure | bci is even cooler | 01:22 |
| genehacker | btw you wouldn't happen to know if there are any displays that vary focus with response to eye focus to give focus depth projection | 01:22 |
| genehacker | BCI is cooler | 01:22 |
| genehacker | it just a bit off | 01:22 |
| genehacker | doesn't that optical brain interface thing require some genetic modification of your cells? | 01:23 |
| genehacker | oh wait, there aren't much in the way of immune cells in the brain.... | 01:24 |
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| kanzure | "Well, where's my Dad?" "Well, it should be obvious to even the most dim-witted individual who holds an advanced degree in hyperbolic topology, ng-bwui, that Homer Simpson has stumbled into .. the third dimension." | 01:37 |
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| fenn | can't you guys post some interesting links | 08:45 |
| fenn | all those gloves were awful | 08:45 |
| fenn | microoptical went out of business and the technology now belongs to a number of companies, notably kopin (which is used in myvu and other glasses) | 08:45 |
| fenn | accelerometer chips are like $1.50 in quantity these days | 08:47 |
| fenn | "fingeRing" only detects the impact of a finger against a surface, it's not actually tracking the movement in space | 08:56 |
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| kanzure | biotech on a budget: http://www.scienceline.org/2010/02/26/biotech-on-a-budget/ | 09:26 |
| kanzure | "Sung won Lim may be the only undergraduate on Earth who is trying to start life from scratch in his spare time." | 09:27 |
| kanzure | what a terrible way to start an article. | 09:27 |
| kanzure | "dur hur i can't do research" | 09:28 |
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| kanzure | fenn: i want to hook up accelerometers to each finger in front of a qwerty keyboard | 09:42 |
| kanzure | with 500 Hz sampling over each finger, and with 3-axis, that should be enough data to do something interesting with | 09:42 |
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| kanzure | http://capitalfactory.com/ 20k + 20 mentors? meh | 09:57 |
| kanzure | just some old blog articles i recall commenting on | 10:32 |
| kanzure | http://thebogles.com/blog/2008/01/civilization-is-a-hack-should-we-plan-to-throw-one-away/ | 10:32 |
| kanzure | http://affectiveengineering.com/blog/jkantarek/using-github-storing-open-source-hardware-projects | 10:32 |
| kanzure | does anyone know how the bacteriorhodopsin memory i/o rate was calculated? 10 milliseconds per read, and they say 10 MB/sec max, and i can't see how they are getting 100kb out of a single read | 11:00 |
| kanzure | s/100kb/100KB/ | 11:02 |
| kanzure | oops, i guess 10.24 KB | 11:09 |
| kanzure | *102 | 11:10 |
| kanzure | i don't get it: http://www.mightynumber.com/ | 12:13 |
| kanzure | oh, it's just an ad trap | 12:15 |
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| kanzure | i can't seem to decrypt this geektalk: http://newsarch.rootsweb.com/th/read/GENEALOGY-DNA/2007-06/1182593009 | 12:37 |
| kanzure | and again: http://newsarch.rootsweb.com/th/read/GENEALOGY-DNA/2007-06/1182645952 | 12:38 |
| kanzure | http://newsarch.rootsweb.com/th/read/GENEALOGY-DNA/2007-06/1182647158 | 12:39 |
| kanzure | wtf, BLAST was the most cited paper in the 90s? http://www-math.mit.edu/~lippert/18.417/papers/altschuletal1990.pdf | 12:46 |
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| genehacker | http://www.physorg.com/news186661582.html | 13:24 |
| genehacker | hopefully companies will actually start developing implants | 13:24 |
| kanzure | hrm for some reason "Blah".isalnum() returns true in python | 13:29 |
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| kanzure | http://www.humblefacture.com/2009/08/three-pillars-of-humblefacture.html | 14:04 |
| kanzure | http://www.humblefacture.com/2010/02/digifab-ecosystem-video.html | 14:04 |
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| kanzure | so.. i want to solve the tangiblebit problem | 14:52 |
| kanzure | i want them to be cooperative | 14:52 |
| kanzure | i'm tired of this. | 14:52 |
| kanzure | http://groups.google.com/group/openmanufacturing/browse_thread/thread/9218c31e1dd0ef4e/b41d278f085bfeb7?lnk=gst&q=skdb#b41d278f085bfeb7 | 14:58 |
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| samrose | kanzure moving that last question here | 15:12 |
| samrose | kanzure, it looks like there is one difference in tangiblebit and skdb and that is how data for packages is stored | 15:13 |
| samrose | I think you are storing in git, and tangiblebit is gearing towards storing in mysql is that correct? | 15:13 |
| kanzure | no it's my understanding that tangiblebit is using the same flat file format that we are, except with different conventions | 15:16 |
| samrose | kanzure I think you are right that this is what they were doing, but today we were talking about their plans to use mysql with django as db-connect | 15:19 |
| samrose | not that is means anything in regards to what we were talking about privately | 15:20 |
| samrose | someone else was asking me this question | 15:20 |
| kanzure | i strongly doubt that smari is going to put flatfile packages under mysql ;) | 15:20 |
| kanzure | his django stuff is for something else | 15:21 |
| samrose | no, I actually believe this is what we were talking about (see ChristianS answer to this question in #tangiblebit right now | 15:22 |
| kanzure | holy fuck | 15:23 |
| kanzure | O.o | 15:23 |
| * kanzure wonders why christian isn't in here ever | 15:23 | |
| samrose | they believe there is an issue with scalability in using flatfiles (I conjecture) | 15:25 |
| samrose | I agree. I think using flatfiles and/or mysql (or any sql) are bad idea | 15:25 |
| samrose | bad ideas | 15:25 |
| samrose | I mean, they work, but there could be a better way | 15:26 |
| samrose | I talked with tangible bit today about the possibility of using Erlang/mnesia as data store | 15:26 |
| samrose | key:value instead of SQL | 15:26 |
| samrose | you can still do list comprehensions in Erlang | 15:27 |
| samrose | it scales really well, and is distributable inherently | 15:27 |
| kanzure | what's wrong with the key:value dictionaries in their current file format? (.tb) | 15:27 |
| samrose | nothing | 15:27 |
| samrose | they could be stored in mnesia instead of MySQL, is that I think | 15:28 |
| samrose | or, there are many other key:value stores that could be used | 15:29 |
| samrose | if not mnesia... | 15:29 |
| samrose | another possibility: http://code.google.com/p/redis/ | 15:34 |
| fenn | if you are going to get all fancy you should use RDF | 15:46 |
| fenn | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triplestore | 15:47 |
| Utopiah | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NoSQL | 15:48 |
| fenn | i don't get it | 15:49 |
| fenn | why would you jump right in for something whose only virtue is that it can handle 2PB of data? | 15:50 |
| samrose | there's a data model that we are working on that would allow you to store as object/relationship, then would translate to RDF, graph, document, key:value, depending on what you ask it to return | 15:51 |
| samrose | http://code.google.com/p/knowledge-commons/source/browse/knowledge_commons.erl | 15:52 |
| samrose | this is the most flexible thing we could think of. can store data model of anything once you know what "objects" and "relationships" are. | 15:54 |
| fenn | why not just start in rdf? | 15:55 |
| fenn | i guess i dont understand what you're trying to do | 15:55 |
| samrose | I am trying to design for interoperability. Instead of forcing people to use RDF, I want RDF to be once choice among many. | 15:56 |
| fenn | aren't you "forcing people" to use mnesia? | 15:57 |
| samrose | we have made this data model in many other databases mnesia not required | 15:57 |
| samrose | just suggestions, feel free to ignore me! :-D | 16:00 |
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| fenn | 1500 down, 7500 to go | 16:02 |
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| kanzure | fenn: out of what? | 16:04 |
| fenn | over 9000! | 16:13 |
| fenn | oh, it hurts | 16:14 |
| kanzure | it's odd how people reply.. "just suggestions! how dare you talk with me about it! /quit" | 16:14 |
| kanzure | guh a 43GB file :( ftp://ftp.jcvi.org/pub/data/huref/databases/huref6.20090806.sql.bz2 | 16:16 |
| kanzure | at least their connection doesn't suck | 16:16 |
| kanzure | sam just sent me an email: | 16:17 |
| kanzure | > ...every time I talk to you guys (you and fenn), the general vibe and | 16:17 |
| kanzure | > tone that I am getting from you is that I am starting out in a square | 16:17 |
| kanzure | > where I am completely full of shit, clueless fuck who had better | 16:17 |
| kanzure | > justify my existence and prove to you that I know what I am talking | 16:17 |
| kanzure | > about. | 16:17 |
| fenn | gee i'm sorry for making people defend their arguments with rationality | 16:20 |
| kanzure | not even defend.. | 16:21 |
| fenn | i mean we already have a key:value system.. ideally if we go with some monstrous database system it will at least be more robust and have better performance than now | 16:22 |
| fenn | nfi what smari and friends are doing | 16:22 |
| fenn | but all of that is a zillion light years away anyway, so i dunno why people keep bringing it up | 16:23 |
| kanzure | i don't know how to reply to him | 16:26 |
| kanzure | "um, we were just talking with you" doesn't seem like it's going to convince him | 16:26 |
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| kanzure | fenn: just sent you the email | 16:31 |
| kanzure | so, maybe i'm just stupid. i see nothing out of the ordinary in the discussion that was just occuring | 16:34 |
| fenn | next time sam comes in here i will just smile and nod | 16:40 |
| fenn | more likely i will be asleep, but it amounts to the same thing | 16:40 |
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| fenn | i wonder if i should pester people about my sql problem or if i should just learn it for real | 16:41 |
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| fenn | znc? | 16:43 |
| fenn | bkero-ZNC: are you a bot? | 16:43 |
| bkero | fenn: nope | 16:44 |
| bkero | THat's me transitioning to znc | 16:44 |
| fenn | ok i'm going to go anti-mope | 16:46 |
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| kanzure | fenn: sql isn't that much of an issue | 16:53 |
| kanzure | most people who claim to "know" sql just know how to yell SELECT and UPDATE | 16:54 |
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| fenn | yeah but i need to know more than that.. i'm doing something complicated | 17:02 |
| kanzure | then: join, group by, where clauses are your friend | 17:04 |
| kanzure | On Mon, Mar 1, 2010 at 4:46 PM, Samuel Rose <samuel.rose@gmail.com> wrote: | 17:04 |
| kanzure | > No, it's all good. Just wanted to share my little theory with you. But | 17:04 |
| kanzure | > hey, what the fuck do I know? ;-D | 17:04 |
| fenn | damn hairy yaks everywhere | 17:06 |
| * fenn goes anti-moping | 17:06 | |
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| kanzure | "Edward You, a special agent with the FBI Weapons of Mass Destruction Directorate, Countermeasures Unit, Bioterrorism Team." (was just mentioned in a diybio email) | 17:59 |
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| kanzure | i wonder if i should go | 18:21 |
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| kanzure | http://www.wilsoncenter.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=events.event_summary&event_id=601732 | 18:34 |
| kanzure | massenvernichtungswaffen | 18:35 |
| kanzure | i bet this is special agent edward you: http://www.fbi.gov/hq/nsb/wmd/images/hrtppe.jpg | 18:40 |
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| kanzure | 17:04:25 omg/jrayhawk: i found the blog of a severe autistic who decided to steal power and internet such that she could hole up in a | 19:07 |
| kanzure | cave in the woods for several years | 19:07 |
| kanzure | http://www.drtonymroberts.com/faye/blogdex.htm | 19:07 |
| kanzure | hm it seems she's going naked. | 19:07 |
| fenn | hawt | 19:07 |
| fenn | <- has an autistic-hole-in-the-woods fetish | 19:08 |
| fenn | omg i didnt realize it was a porn site | 19:09 |
| fenn | ... or ... something | 19:09 |
| kanzure | honestly i'm not really sure *what* it is | 19:11 |
| kanzure | auschwitz legos http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.viewcustom&friendId=150103974&blogId=325595770&swapped=true | 19:32 |
| fenn | yess, finally a job requirement i satisfy | 19:33 |
| fenn | "It is a plus if you have extensive Star Craft gaming experience." | 19:33 |
| fenn | All people have a "tact filter", which applies tact in one direction to everything that passes through it. Most "normal people" have the tact filter positioned to apply tact in the outgoing direction. Thus whatever normal people say gets the appropriate amount of tact applied to it before they say it. This is because when they were growing up, their parents continually drilled into their heads statements like, "If you can't say something nice, don | 20:32 |
| fenn | "Nerds," on the other hand, have their tact filter positioned to apply tact in the incoming direction. Thus, whatever anyone says to them gets the appropriate amount of tact added when they hear it. This is because when nerds were growing up, they continually got picked on, and their parents continually drilled into their heads statements like, "They're just saying those mean things because they're jealous. They don't really mean it." | 20:32 |
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| fenn | this sufficiently explains the nerd<->non-nerd disconnect for me | 20:33 |
| kanzure | fenn: too much tact: "apologies you consider yourself a 'nerd'" | 20:46 |
| QuantumG | meh, I still have troubles with empathy | 20:46 |
| QuantumG | I dunno if its related to being a nerd | 20:47 |
| QuantumG | it's simply that I care about myself so much more than I care about others. | 20:47 |
| QuantumG | why should I waste time thinking about your stupid little emotions? | 20:47 |
| fenn | QuantumG: that's just you being an asshole, there's a difference :) | 20:52 |
| QuantumG | for sure | 20:52 |
| QuantumG | btw, have you ever considered the Diana Troi character on TNG? | 20:57 |
| QuantumG | I wonder what the thinking behind that was? "Ya know, we're likely to have a lot of bit part actors on this show that can't really present emotions all that well, and our audience is mostly geeks who have trouble with empathy, so we should have a character that just says *completely obvious shit about emotions all the time*." | 20:58 |
| kanzure | empathy is not the same thing | 21:01 |
| kanzure | go away | 21:01 |
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| kanzure | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ZquaoUMfIc | 22:48 |
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| fenn | well, this is interesting: http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.viewcustom&friendId=150103974&blogId=258829901&swapped=true | 22:53 |
| fenn | (more faye kane) | 22:53 |
| kanzure | "i'm a regular tomasina edison" | 23:27 |
| katsmeow | :-\ | 23:29 |
| fenn | It would appear that we have reached the limits of what it is possible to achieve with computer technology, although one should be careful with such statements, as they tend to sound pretty silly in 5 years. | 23:48 |
| fenn | -- John Von Neumann,1949 | 23:48 |
| QuantumG | hehe | 23:48 |
| kanzure | didn't he die a few years after that? | 23:49 |
| QuantumG | way to be prescient and not, in the same quote | 23:49 |
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