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| JayDugger | fenn: Use a waterjet as a waveguide for laser cutting. | 00:29 |
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| Utopiah | (Personal Growth Series: Dr. William Dement on Healthy Sleep and Optimal Performance http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hAw1z8GdE8 GoogleTalks 2008) | 00:51 |
| nsh | what did you email egeste, kanz? | 01:29 |
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| kanzure | more occ licensing discussion: http://www.opencascade.org/org/forum/thread_15859/ (actually it's from 2009) | 10:39 |
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| kanzure | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep-sea_gigantism | 11:08 |
| kanzure | i like dr. octopus' walk sequence http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cglaHHuotz0 | 11:12 |
| kanzure | what the heck? http://openatrium.com/sites/openatrium.com/files/about_overview.jpg | 11:30 |
| kanzure | i also like the site design: http://openatrium.com/ | 11:30 |
| kanzure | looks a lot like http://500friends.com/ | 11:31 |
| kanzure | a penguin riding a gnu? | 11:31 |
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| kanzure | wut? "For example, if I find a CC-BY image, I can't just sublicense the | 12:47 |
| kanzure | image under the CC-BY-SA. But, I could just change the image's format | 12:47 |
| kanzure | from .png to .jpg, and that restriction is removed." | 12:47 |
| kanzure | heh | 12:48 |
| clemux | wut | 12:49 |
| kanzure | took me a few seconds to process that | 12:50 |
| Dustbin | what does CC-BY stand for I've seen it a couple times when people talk about creative commons | 13:17 |
| Dustbin | oh I get it | 13:19 |
| Dustbin | CC= creative commons | 13:19 |
| Dustbin | BY= atribution | 13:19 |
| Dustbin | SA= share alike | 13:19 |
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| kanzure | http://designfiles.org/~bryan/meetlog/bre_pettis.stlk | 14:05 |
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| parolang` | Vaguely ontopic...anyone use nootropics here? Any success? | 15:33 |
| kanzure | what do you mean by success | 15:41 |
| parolang` | Well, for now I mean lack of serious failure. Addiction, depression, messed-upness. | 15:42 |
| parolang` | I guess...fundamentally, my interest isn't exactly the same thing: I have ADHD, was diagnosed as a child but stopped taking meds early on. | 15:43 |
| parolang` | Well...turns out, I think I might still need them, so I'm going to find a doctor and see what the doc says. | 15:44 |
| parolang` | I know some quarters consider ritalin a nootropic, so I thought someone here might have experience with it. | 15:44 |
| parolang` | But...this whole inquiry is a little far-fetched, so sorry if this isn't really what this channel is about. | 15:45 |
| fenn | i took piracetam without addiction, but iw as already depressed and maybe messed-up | 15:47 |
| fenn | as for being "smarter" well that's hard to say, but it definitely makes you see through layers of bullshit more certainly | 15:48 |
| clemux | i took small doses of ritalin during my last exams, I liked it :p | 15:48 |
| clemux | but that's not a very intersting experience to share... | 15:49 |
| parolang` | Well, right now I don't have any problems with my "intelligence", but sort of related areas of attention, impulsivity, unable to complete projects (not due to laziness or lack of interest) | 15:49 |
| parolang` | clemux: Well...I'm a little worried about how close it is to a "hard drug", whether I'll end up an junky or something like that. | 15:50 |
| clemux | (I think i have ADD... but I've been postponing a visit to a psychiatrist for a while...) | 15:50 |
| kanzure | no you will not end up a junky if you stay on the same dosage | 15:50 |
| clemux | it is a hard drug | 15:50 |
| kanzure | i mean, don't be increasing +5mg forever | 15:50 |
| kanzure | i am also not sure how you're planning on factoring out the placebo effect | 15:51 |
| clemux | depending on the definition of course | 15:51 |
| parolang` | kanzure: sensible | 15:51 |
| parolang` | kanzure: That's a good question. | 15:51 |
| clemux | parolang`: yeah, I took it (a junky friend could provide me a sample) because of my inability to focus, to complete tasks, etc. (and to self-test my self-diagnosis... not very clever I guess) | 15:52 |
| parolang` | kanzure: But, here's a good example. When someone talks to me, I don't usually hear all the words. For the longest time I thought this was normal, and now I'm starting to realize it isn't. | 15:52 |
| parolang` | kanzure: So...if I start understanding everything someone says to me, that would be hard for my brain to make up. | 15:53 |
| parolang` | There are so many ways that I compensate. | 15:53 |
| parolang` | But then...ritalin doesn't actually undo adhd, that's the other thing I'm worried about. It just counters some of the symptoms...at least, thats what abunch of googling seems to indicate. | 15:54 |
| clemux | hmm, it's controversial | 15:55 |
| kanzure | sorry but "that would be hard for my brain to make up" doesn't make sense to me | 15:55 |
| clemux | I believe | 15:55 |
| parolang` | clemux: Sometimes I can focus...sometimes I can't. But it's that unreliability that's the major problem. | 15:55 |
| parolang` | kanzure: That would be hard for me to convince myself that the medicine is working when it's not? | 15:56 |
| clemux | if the cause of the disorder is a lack of dopamine, the ritalin does "undo" it | 15:56 |
| clemux | well, no | 15:56 |
| clemux | but it does work on the underlying cause | 15:56 |
| kanzure | parolang`: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Placebo | 15:56 |
| parolang` | clemux: That's good to know. | 15:56 |
| clemux | but only while on medication | 15:56 |
| clemux | parolang`: but I'm not sure the exact cause(s) are known for sure | 15:57 |
| kanzure | clemux: sorry but nobody actually knows the neurophysiological effects of ritalin or any of the other amphetamines | 15:57 |
| kanzure | anyone who says "oh it's just dopamine" is bullshitting you | 15:57 |
| clemux | yeah | 15:57 |
| clemux | I was goind to add "but there's the problem of not knowing exactly what stimulants do" | 15:57 |
| kanzure | i have some notes here: http://designfiles.org/papers/adderall/ | 15:57 |
| kanzure | http://designfiles.org/papers/adderall/adderall.txt | 15:57 |
| parolang` | thanks, I'll check it out | 15:58 |
| kanzure | hm, that text file was more about l-kynurenine than adderall | 15:58 |
| parolang` | Is adderall used to treat adhd? | 15:58 |
| kanzure | yes | 15:59 |
| kanzure | well, no | 15:59 |
| kanzure | it's prescribed to people who are diagnosed with ADHD | 15:59 |
| clemux | to cope with the symptoms? | 15:59 |
| parolang` | Okay. Well, I'm probably at the whim of the doctor, it sounds like ridilin is usually tried first and then they try other means. | 16:00 |
| parolang` | *ridalin | 16:00 |
| parolang` | Anyway, thanks for replying to my inquiry. | 16:01 |
| kanzure | you should read the placebo article before you start experimenting with noots | 16:01 |
| parolang` | Well...I'm not sure what you believe I've misunderstood about the placebo effect. | 16:02 |
| kanzure | you're going to take pills and then try to figure out if your brain has changed as a result of the pills or not | 16:03 |
| parolang` | Right. | 16:03 |
| kanzure | but your brain can change either way | 16:03 |
| parolang` | If something else has changed. | 16:04 |
| kanzure | so you won't really know if it's due to the effects of the pills or if it's just because you're convinced it will work | 16:04 |
| parolang` | To my knowledge, there's no way to really measure ADHD. | 16:04 |
| parolang` | They've done some sort of brain scan that's given some empirical evidence, but I won't be able to afford a brain scan right now. | 16:05 |
| parolang` | (Not that the brain scan would determine if the drug is working...on second thought.) | 16:05 |
| parolang` | I also have people who should be able to tell if they see any difference in my behavior. | 16:06 |
| kanzure | i don't think you understand | 16:06 |
| parolang` | Well...how do you suggest I try to weed out the placebo effect? | 16:09 |
| kanzure | maybe read up on double-blind studies | 16:13 |
| kanzure | basically you're going to have to fight not only the placebo effect but also the observer bias and experimenter's bias | 16:13 |
| parolang` | But...am I really going to perform a double-blind study on myself? I assume the studies have already been done. If the drug has efficacy for people like me, then I don't need to test that for myself. | 16:16 |
| parolang` | It seems like I can't really weed out the placebo effect, because I'm not really experimenting on myself. | 16:19 |
| kanzure | you're taking a drug and then seeing what the results/effects are, right? | 16:22 |
| parolang` | yes | 16:24 |
| parolang` | But...I don't think I'll be able to prove what the results are to the extent that you deem necessary. | 16:26 |
| parolang` | Unless you know a way. | 16:27 |
| clemux | kanzure: when you say 'says "oh it's just dopamine" is bullshitting you | 16:27 |
| clemux | oops, i failed my quote | 16:28 |
| kanzure | heh | 16:28 |
| clemux | you mean, "nobody does know how exactly do the stimulants increase dopamine/norepinephrine levels" ? | 16:29 |
| ybit | -"do the" :) | 16:29 |
| kanzure | no. everybody basically says "it increases dopamine", but *which* dopamine, *which* receptors, and in *which* regions of the brain | 16:29 |
| clemux | and that we don't know what other effects it could have? | 16:30 |
| clemux | kanzure: oh, right | 16:30 |
| kanzure | i think we do know what the other effects are though- there's lots of clinical trials on adderall and related drugs | 16:30 |
| parolang` | (Right now my mind's foggy because of too large of an easter dinner :)) | 16:33 |
| clemux | hmm | 16:33 |
| kanzure | easter? isn't that next month | 16:33 |
| parolang` | Nope. Today, in fact :) | 16:33 |
| clemux | I still don't understand what you mean by "nobody actually knows the neurophysiological effects of ritalin or any of the other amphetamines | 16:33 |
| parolang` | Happy Easter | 16:33 |
| clemux | ybit: thanks for the correction :) (English is not my native language) | 16:34 |
| parolang` | clemux: They've observed that it seems to work, they just don't know how or why. | 16:34 |
| ybit | np clemux :) | 16:34 |
| clemux | (but I understand it was quite dumb to talk about "dopamine levels" as I did :) | 16:36 |
| clemux | hmm, time to sleep (I'll read your answer tomorrow, if there's one) | 16:42 |
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| kanzure | hm what is rejon doing presenting at txlf | 18:14 |
| kanzure | random blurb of publicity (nothing new): http://www.newesttechnology.net/articles/45740/maker-bot-open-source-manufacturing | 18:22 |
| kanzure | suggestions for my txlf presentation? | 18:22 |
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| JayDugger | Good evening, all. | 18:54 |
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| kanzure | hm apparently livly.org is in eri gentry's garage | 20:08 |
| JayDugger | Good night, everyone. | 20:34 |
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| kanzure | eri gentry is hosting a diybio meetup in mountain view, ca | 21:23 |
| kanzure | via meetup.com | 21:23 |
| kanzure | "Gene flaw found in induced stem cells" http://www.nature.com/news/2010/100331/full/464663a.html | 21:26 |
| kanzure | "Stem-cell researchers have puzzled over why reprogrammed cells taken from adult tissues are often slower to divide and much less robust than their embryo-derived counterparts." | 21:26 |
| kanzure | i don't know what this was meant to be, but it's an absolutely hilarious demonstration of yak shaving: http://designfiles.org/~bryan/youtube_videos_from_irc_channel/Giant_Robot_Project_Part_1-86Krv3gE-c4.flv | 22:14 |
| kanzure | oh i guess it was serious | 22:20 |
| kanzure | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXnv4VeFOHY | 22:22 |
| kanzure | stalk: Jaimie Mantzel | 22:32 |
| kanzure | http://www.robotsnob.com/archives/2009/01/interview-giant-robot-builder.php | 22:32 |
| kanzure | also, all youtube.com videos that have been referenced in this channel are being downloaded to that folder | 22:38 |
| kanzure | http://designfiles.org/~bryan/youtube_videos_from_irc_channel/ | 22:38 |
| Dustbin | well that's pretty cool | 22:41 |
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| Dustbin | http://jamius.com/videos/100_0070.mov | 23:10 |
| Dustbin | that's how his giant robot will work | 23:10 |
| Dustbin | I like the design | 23:10 |
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