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| fenn | history of multitouch: http://www.billbuxton.com/multitouchOverview.html | 08:10 |
|---|---|---|
| Utopiah | nice, will make a good link on my "Burn Apple Inc(R)" page | 08:11 |
| JayDugger | Thank you, fenn! | 08:12 |
| JayDugger | I still have my Fingerworks keyboard. | 08:12 |
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| fenn | 1985: multi-touch tablet | 08:35 |
| fenn | The Haptic Lens, a multi-touch sensor that had the feel of clay, in that it deformed the harder you pushed, and resumed it basic form when released | 08:37 |
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| fenn | seems to be like the soy-sauce-in-a-bag device | 08:40 |
| fenn | i should make one of those | 08:40 |
| fenn | had no feedback though, lame | 08:41 |
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| kanzure | yay | 12:30 |
| quantumkat | we can have a party, now! | 12:30 |
| superkuh | "Low-Energy Defibrillation Using Resonant Drift Pacing", 2009 (PDF 4.0M) http://www.maths.liv.ac.uk/~vadim/theses/Morgan.pdf - The paper goes from cell level electrophysiological models of cells to tissue level finite element meshes and ends up with a description of tissue level nerve behavior that is actually useful and predictive! | 12:38 |
| superkuh | The group of associated with the paper has quite a few articles on scholarpedia as well for the introductory background. | 12:38 |
| kanzure | does anyone want to attend this? http://telexlr8.wordpress.com/2010/04/20/david-orban-on-the-singularity-university-teleplace-may-11/ | 12:42 |
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| kanzure | giulio prisco is offering | 12:42 |
| Utopiah | he'll record this one too? | 12:42 |
| kanzure | i don't know | 12:42 |
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| Utopiah | http://open3dp.me.washington.edu/ | 15:12 |
| bkero | kanzure: That'd be pretty sweet | 15:56 |
| QuantumG | just got a wireless energy monitor installed | 16:04 |
| QuantumG | tells me how many watts I'm using (or $/hr) | 16:05 |
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| parolang` | Can anyone account for the downward slope? http://www.google.com/trends?q=emacs&ctab=0&geo=all&date=all&sort=0 | 16:16 |
| parolang` | whoops, sorry wrong channel | 16:16 |
| kanzure | might be the right channel :) | 16:16 |
| parolang` | heh :) | 16:18 |
| jrayhawk | lisp programmers are presumably dying off | 16:21 |
| parolang` | It isn't trendy :D | 16:22 |
| QuantumG | Due to high costs caused by a post-war depletion of the strategic parentheses reserve LISP never [became] popular. http://james-iry.blogspot.com/2009/05/brief-incomplete-and-mostly-wrong.html | 16:27 |
| parolang` | I guess not enough people have drank the paul graham koolaid :D | 16:28 |
| klafka | lisp is pretty cool | 17:04 |
| klafka | especially clojure | 17:04 |
| klafka | w/ incanter | 17:04 |
| parolang` | Well, we're still at the level where the mention of anything lisp-related is immediately followed by a snide comment about too many parentheses. | 17:06 |
| parolang` | Thus, why lisp isn't trending too well :) | 17:06 |
| QuantumG | still? | 17:06 |
| QuantumG | always have been | 17:06 |
| parolang` | Well, if lisp was trending better, people would be able to see past the parentheses more :) | 17:07 |
| parolang` | Lisp isn't a parenthesis fetish, it's a programming language written in a data structure which gives it interesting and useful properties. | 17:09 |
| QuantumG | there's no reason why it has to have no syntax | 17:09 |
| QuantumG | to do that | 17:10 |
| klafka | idk lisp has a lot of interesting things i hope to explore more, like its use in metaprogramming | 17:11 |
| klafka | and w/ clojure you have a ton of easy to implement packages for it | 17:11 |
| parolang` | Lisp kool-aid: http://www.paulgraham.com/avg.html | 17:11 |
| parolang` | QuantumG: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homoiconicity | 17:13 |
| QuantumG | there's no need to sacrifice readability and maintainability for metaprogramming | 17:14 |
| parolang` | That's why lisp does all three. | 17:15 |
| QuantumG | lisp is neither readable nor maintainable.. that's the primary reason why it fails | 17:16 |
| parolang` | It fails because people evaluate it superficially. | 17:16 |
| QuantumG | if by "superficially" you mean "fuck that's unreadable, I'm not maintaining that!" then yes | 17:17 |
| parolang` | Right, hence the source of our disagreement. | 17:17 |
| parolang` | But then, that's what non-programmers say when they read code. | 17:18 |
| parolang` | When you learn to read code it makes sense, just like learning to read any natural language. | 17:18 |
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| QuantumG | no you're wrong | 17:19 |
| parolang` | :) | 17:22 |
| parolang` | Because of no I am wrong. I stand corrected. | 17:22 |
| QuantumG | readability is best measured by the "writing to yourself in the future" test | 17:22 |
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| parolang` | You realize that lisp is one of the oldest programming languages there are right? I'm sure it passes the future test :) | 17:24 |
| parolang` | And emacs is one of the oldest text editors and still being heavily maintained. | 17:25 |
| QuantumG | ok, now you're just demonstrating that you have no idea who you're talking to. | 17:26 |
| parolang` | Okay :) | 17:27 |
| parolang` | Anyway, back to a more h+ appropriate topic :) | 17:27 |
| JayDugger | Good evening, everyone. | 17:43 |
| klafka | wait who are we talking to? | 17:48 |
| klafka | RMS????? | 17:48 |
| parolang` | You wish fanboy :) | 17:50 |
| klafka | no i'm just glad you're not gonna eat stuff off your foot | 17:51 |
| parolang` | blasphemy! | 17:51 |
| QuantumG | hehe | 17:51 |
| parolang` | Good thing flash video is patent encumbered, otherwise he would be very embarrassed. | 17:53 |
| kanzure | wtf? http://www.flickr.com/photos/wonderfulemancipation/2843910588/sizes/l/ | 18:49 |
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| QuantumG | http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1648748&cid=32177872 for the ladies on the channel | 18:54 |
| parolang` | QuantumG: I'd suggest you stop while you're still ahead. | 19:02 |
| parolang` | Well, you're not ahead, but stop anyway. | 19:02 |
| QuantumG | hehe | 19:02 |
| QuantumG | I was just about to say I was never ahead | 19:02 |
| parolang` | Yeah, you're being a serious douche, and I don't use the term loosely. | 19:05 |
| QuantumG | sorry, are you saying you disagree? | 19:06 |
| kanzure | i think he's arguing that your tact and delivery sucks | 19:07 |
| QuantumG | you don't think humans are flawed and people have an obligation to improve the human condition? what are you doing here then? | 19:07 |
| kanzure | biological revisionism doesn't seem to be at stake (so far) | 19:07 |
| QuantumG | well, I can't argue about tact or delivery.. 'cept to say, it's Slashdot :) | 19:08 |
| parolang` | Improve the human condition in meaningful ways, not by imposing severe ostracism to people who don't improve themselves to our satisfaction. | 19:08 |
| QuantumG | so you do disagree | 19:09 |
| QuantumG | people who refuse to use deodorant, for example, shouldn't be ostracised? | 19:09 |
| QuantumG | people who have a mental condition and refuse to stay on their meds shouldn't be ostracised? | 19:09 |
| parolang` | I don't think anyone should be ostracized, really. | 19:11 |
| kanzure | have you considered not being around people who smell bad, QuantumG? | 19:11 |
| parolang` | It's not fun. | 19:11 |
| QuantumG | umm.. that's what ostracized means kanzure | 19:11 |
| kanzure | QuantumG: yeah but let's say that you're the only person who can smell people on the planet, and you hate the stench | 19:11 |
| QuantumG | whenever everyone says "I don't want to be around you..", the person is ostracized... by, ya know, definition. | 19:12 |
| kanzure | for byproducts like smell, the solution is easy (move somewhere else) | 19:12 |
| kanzure | i thought ostracization usually has other social implications | 19:12 |
| kanzure | god this sucks | 19:12 |
| * kanzure goes away to do more programming | 19:12 | |
| QuantumG | ostracism - the act of excluding someone from society by general consent | 19:13 |
| parolang` | But just think there was a time when deodorant wasn't widely available, and people got along and was happy. | 19:13 |
| QuantumG | ostracize - avoid speaking to or dealing with; "Ever since I spoke up, my colleagues ostracize me" | 19:13 |
| kanzure | there's also a way to exclude them from your social interactions without consent | 19:13 |
| QuantumG | ostracize - To exclude someone from society or from a community, by not communicating with or even noticing them, similar to shunning | 19:13 |
| parolang` | Smelling bad wasn't such a serious offense because everyone did. | 19:13 |
| parolang` | So, if with every "improvement" we become narrower and less inclusive, then I think we're confusing h+ with h- IMHO | 19:14 |
| QuantumG | yes, because once it became practical to improve the human condition it became a social obligation to do so | 19:14 |
| kanzure | O_o | 19:14 |
| kanzure | are you into eugenics? | 19:15 |
| QuantumG | hopefully, once it becomes practical to improve intelligence, unimproved people will be shunned and ignored by the unimproved.. | 19:15 |
| QuantumG | err, improved. | 19:15 |
| JayDugger | err, which? | 19:15 |
| parolang` | Hopefully? | 19:16 |
| QuantumG | yes, hopefully | 19:16 |
| kanzure | .. | 19:16 |
| parolang` | Then we disagree. | 19:16 |
| Noahj | I doubt intelligence improvements will work like that | 19:16 |
| parolang` | Improvements need to be entirely opt-in. | 19:16 |
| QuantumG | yes, they are | 19:16 |
| Noahj | I suspect there'll still be plenty of things someone "improved" can learn from someone "unimproved" with more experience in a given field | 19:16 |
| Noahj | And I suspect completely coverage of a population with a given update could be counterproductive if the implementation is buggy | 19:17 |
| parolang` | QuantumG: What is ostracism but a form of coercion? | 19:17 |
| QuantumG | wearing deodorant is completely optional | 19:17 |
| JayDugger | So are clothes--but just try it. | 19:17 |
| Noahj | I think "speaking english" is a better metaphor | 19:17 |
| QuantumG | people may decide they don't wanna be around you, but that's your choice. | 19:17 |
| kanzure | you are saying it's a "social obligation" to opt-in, though | 19:17 |
| kanzure | that's coercion | 19:17 |
| Noahj | I don't wear deodorant and I know a lot of people who don't | 19:17 |
| parolang` | QuantumG: I wear deodorant because *I* want to smell better, not because I don't want others to punish me. | 19:17 |
| QuantumG | uh huh | 19:18 |
| QuantumG | sure you do | 19:18 |
| parolang` | QuantumG: Good will towards my fellow human beings. | 19:18 |
| Noahj | People don't avoid talking to them, in fact, they'll strike up conversations with them just to inform them of their opinion on how they smell | 19:18 |
| kanzure | QuantumG: let's not question parolang`'s intentions :P there's no easy way to confirm those | 19:18 |
| Noahj | I don't know anyone who doesn't speak english, because I only speak english... | 19:18 |
| QuantumG | even if you say you wear deodorant for "good will towards fellow human beings" you've just made my argument for me | 19:18 |
| superkuh | Luckily things like the internet exist wherein we can forget about wearing deodorant or clothing. | 19:19 |
| QuantumG | mentally ill people should stay on their meds for the same reason | 19:19 |
| kanzure | another way to look at it, for a reason to wear deodorant, is social hacking and platform programming on top of nostrils and receptors | 19:19 |
| kanzure | most people suck at this programming, and their deodorant smells terrible | 19:19 |
| parolang` | Well, if not "good will", we're very vain creatures, want others to have a good impression of us. The same reason women wear makeup. | 19:19 |
| Noahj | But being of normal intelligence is mostly harmless | 19:20 |
| parolang` | Why people wear nice clothes. | 19:20 |
| QuantumG | the argument or whether altruism is actually just selfish behaviour is a pretty old one | 19:20 |
| * kanzure has become disinterested | 19:20 | |
| kanzure | i am more concerned about QuantumG's social obligation policies O_O | 19:20 |
| parolang` | Well, women need to have their PMS fixed according to QG :) | 19:21 |
| QuantumG | whatever you wanna call it, whatever motives you want to assign to it, the fact remains that if society deems something an improvement then a social obligation for people to participate in that improvement quickly builds. | 19:21 |
| kanzure | maybe a social peer pressure | 19:22 |
| kanzure | but an obligation? wut? | 19:22 |
| QuantumG | I don't see any difference in the two terms.. if you prefer I'll use social peer pressure | 19:22 |
| kanzure | has anyone heard of HyperChem? http://hyper.com/ | 19:22 |
| kanzure | quantumkat just met the programmer behind it tonight | 19:22 |
| QuantumG | looks neat | 19:24 |
| kanzure | also i got an interesting idea pitched to me today | 19:24 |
| kanzure | the concept is that the singularity is already occuring, and humans are a byproduct of a long-time-going singularity | 19:25 |
| kanzure | instead of a singularity as a byproduct of human intelligence | 19:25 |
| kanzure | fenn: you were trying to make up an argument for the singularity occuring in 1968, right? | 19:25 |
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| kanzure | strages: i saw your email to the hackerspaces list. hope the meetup goes well | 19:26 |
| strages | me too | 19:27 |
| strages | last year was a blast | 19:27 |
| strages | few minor hiccups but it was the first time I'd ever done something like that | 19:27 |
| strages | feel free to offer encouragement on the mailing list as well, as some are shy to respond | 19:28 |
| JayDugger | Hmm... | 19:37 |
| JayDugger | you mean something like Stross's argument about "phase changes" in human history: the Agricultural Revolution, the Industrial Revolution? | 19:38 |
| JayDugger | Why 1968? | 19:38 |
| jrayhawk | QuantumG: The story of the anointing of Jesus shows us that even Jesus thinks people who are highly critical of others for being sub-optimal are douches. | 19:41 |
| QuantumG | bringing up religion on this channel is sufficient reason for me to think that you're sub-optimal | 19:42 |
| jrayhawk | Basically what I'm trying to say is Jesus hates you. | 19:42 |
| jrayhawk | Anyway, you might find your interactions with others going more smoothly if you reward good behavior instead of condemn anything less than perfect behavior. | 19:44 |
| jrayhawk | I would also suggest second-guessing your hostility towards philosophy. Philosophy is the greatest engine for change in both individuals and society. | 19:46 |
| QuantumG | is this something from some previous discussion that you're talking about? | 19:48 |
| jrayhawk | Impressions. | 19:51 |
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| JayDugger | Good night, everyone. | 20:07 |
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| Utopiah | http://blogs.nature.com/news/thegreatbeyond/2010/05/geoengineering_experiment_read_1.html | 23:47 |
| genehacker | that ETC group they talk about is anti-transhumanist | 23:54 |
| genehacker | they also aren't too fond of synbio either | 23:54 |
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