| --- Day changed Sun May 16 2010 | ||
| JayDugger | fenn: Have you, or do you know of, a template for BOMs? | 00:33 |
|---|---|---|
| fenn | no | 00:39 |
| fenn | i worked out a schema for describing parts ordered from different suppliers, it's inventory/data/schema.yaml | 00:40 |
| fenn | bom and inventory are related don't you think? | 00:42 |
| fenn | i hate it when people make bom's with parts ordered from mouser | 00:42 |
| fenn | or some random european company i've never heard of | 00:43 |
| fenn | a good bom format should be able to handle different possible suppliers, or even a whole tree of part combinations (i.e. you need steppers and stepper controllers or servos and servo controllers) | 00:44 |
| fenn | metric/english hardware is another example | 00:45 |
| JayDugger | Thank you. BOM & inventory interact, yes. | 01:04 |
| JayDugger | How would I use this yaml schema? | 01:06 |
| fenn | er, you look at it, and do stuff | 01:11 |
| fenn | it's not a computer parseable document | 01:11 |
| JayDugger | Do you have a public link to it? | 01:14 |
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| JayDugger | http://halfbakedmaker.org/2010/03/07/genetic-programming-in-the-cloud/ | 03:11 |
| kanzure | JayDugger: http://designfiles.org/skdb/inventory/ | 05:35 |
| kanzure | there is no "schema" for yaml really | 05:35 |
| JayDugger | What should I do with that directory, kanzure? Do I need to install django to use it? | 05:38 |
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| kanzure | JayDugger: oh crap. sorry. that's smari's old stuff. | 08:19 |
| JayDugger | No worries. | 08:19 |
| kanzure | JayDugger: http://designfiles.org/skdb/doc/ has the other BOM/inventory directory | 08:19 |
| JayDugger | Got it. | 08:20 |
| JayDugger | Thank you, kanzure. | 08:20 |
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| kanzure | http://www.hackyday.com/2010/05/biopunk-watch-time-temperature-gaming.html | 10:39 |
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| any46613858 | weather, sorry, bbl | 13:05 |
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| thesnark | does anybody know of a good app that allows me to associate home-made annotations with web pages? | 13:09 |
| kanzure | there are tons of firefox plugins for that i guess | 13:10 |
| * thesnark is using chrome | 13:13 | |
| thesnark | ah, sidewiki | 13:14 |
| thesnark | duh | 13:14 |
| thesnark | nvm | 13:14 |
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| lepton_ | Anybody have any suggestions for drupal site hosting? VM's to run on Linode are an option, too | 15:04 |
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| lepton_ | kanzure: You mentioned on gnusha.org that Michael Grube is a fellow trying to develop a 32-channel EEG headset. Some of the people I'm connected with are doing similar open source work, so it might be a good idea make some connections there | 15:18 |
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| kanzure | http://jagdishhathiramani.wordpress.com/2010/05/16/tomorrowmedicine-personalised-and-self-aware/ | 15:26 |
| kanzure | lepton_: thesnark is michael | 15:26 |
| kanzure | thesnark: ping | 15:26 |
| thesnark | kanzure here | 15:27 |
| kanzure | see above | 15:27 |
| thesnark | hi lepton_ | 15:27 |
| kanzure | haha fake chinese google http://www.goojje.com/ | 15:29 |
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| thesnark | lepton_ I should inform you that we decided the most efficient use of our resources would be to simply open up the emotive epoc | 16:00 |
| thesnark | lepton_ we are no longer designing a 32 channel eeg | 16:01 |
| lepton_ | Hey, sorry for the absense. I'm mostly away from the computer at the moment | 16:02 |
| thesnark | no problem | 16:02 |
| kanzure | i keep trying to convince thesnark to figure out the AES 512 encryption key for the emotiv headset ;) | 16:02 |
| lepton_ | There was some interesting work trying to open up the OCZ NIA headset that was fairly active last year | 16:03 |
| lepton_ | That would be great | 16:03 |
| kanzure | it's embedded in the .exe file they distribute | 16:03 |
| lepton_ | I'm working on some FFT algorithms for an open sound responsive light system for a burning man project, and that might have some relavence to actual EEG hardware development | 16:04 |
| thesnark | :) Cool!! | 16:04 |
| lepton_ | but is definetly in a different direction from using existing commerical hardware | 16:04 |
| lepton_ | anyway, I'd love to talk about that in more detail, but need to focus on another project for the moment | 16:05 |
| lepton_ | I'll be back later, going idle for now | 16:05 |
| thesnark | ok | 16:05 |
| lepton_ | anyway, pleased to meet 'ya | 16:05 |
| thesnark | for sure | 16:05 |
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| fenn | lepton_: more info on your burning man project online anwywhere? | 16:49 |
| fenn | JayDugger: sorry here it is http://designfiles.org/skdb/inventory/data/schema.yaml | 16:51 |
| jrayhawk | Lepton: VMs on Gandi seem to be cheaper, FWIW. | 17:00 |
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| kanzure | jrayhawk: i'm doing a little project this weekend on amazon ec2. i don't know if this makes me evil or not | 17:23 |
| jrayhawk | The thing that freaks me out most about EC2 is people using it as a backups solution. | 17:25 |
| kanzure | do you mean s3? (storage) | 17:26 |
| jrayhawk | Er, yeah | 17:26 |
| jrayhawk | I can never keep track of their cloud nomenclature | 17:26 |
| kanzure | say.io is going to be running off of ec2 shortly | 17:27 |
| kanzure | holy crap what a landing page | 17:27 |
| kanzure | that was unexpected | 17:27 |
| lepton_ | Hello All, I'm back | 17:29 |
| lepton_ | fenn: Currently the burning man project isn't online anywhere | 17:29 |
| lepton_ | However, we're about to release an Arduino FFT library we're developing for it, and that might be a good time for us to post some more information | 17:29 |
| lepton_ | the basic premise is that we'll have a number of objects in a space, with each object having a microphone input and uC to do signal analysis and light up (or move in some cases) in reponse to the sounds of the environment | 17:29 |
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| lepton_ | so you could go in the space and sing or whistle or chant play instruments or whatever, and we can program RGB color responses in all sorts of interesting ways | 17:29 |
| lepton_ | ripples of color, easter eggs based on specific chords or patterns, interferance patterns between different spacial sources of sound | 17:30 |
| kanzure | there's been a few projects that do that for visual input, but i can't remember their names | 17:31 |
| lepton_ | We're hoping that by making it arduino IDE programmable it will be easier for people to program it to do neat effects we haven't thought of | 17:31 |
| lepton_ | Kanzure: if you've got some down time, I'd be interested in hearing more about your iron man suit ambitions | 17:41 |
| kanzure | first, the guy who wrote that email originally was doing it in plastic | 17:42 |
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| kanzure | and using 3dsmax or some other mesh software | 17:42 |
| kanzure | i agree that vacuum forming or hydro forming would be the way to go | 17:42 |
| lepton_ | ah, I just looked back and realized that might not actually be your project at all? | 17:42 |
| kanzure | i do have some funding for crazy exoskeleton projects though :) | 17:43 |
| lepton_ | oh really? | 17:43 |
| * kanzure nods | 17:43 | |
| kanzure | yeah, open source hardware projects especially | 17:43 |
| lepton_ | I'm loosely connected with the Berkley exoskeletan project through UVA | 17:43 |
| kanzure | not UAVs? | 17:43 |
| kanzure | what? | 17:44 |
| lepton_ | Including some people on that group who are interested in developing something else | 17:44 |
| lepton_ | ^University of Virgina | 17:44 |
| lepton_ | This project (very old video that popped up on a google search); http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BkBEDy3eA1o | 17:44 |
| lepton_ | Unfortunately it's mechanical design has some pretty significant DOF limitations | 17:45 |
| kanzure | giant backpack for one? | 17:45 |
| kanzure | :P | 17:45 |
| kanzure | have you seen the sarcos designs? | 17:45 |
| lepton_ | The hardware kinda sucks, but some good control sytesm modeling has come out of it | 17:45 |
| lepton_ | ^searching now | 17:45 |
| kanzure | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IYWd2C3XVIk | 17:46 |
| lepton_ | Ah yes, the American suit that doesn't suck :p | 17:46 |
| lepton_ | Yeah, I saw that one a while back | 17:47 |
| lepton_ | So anyway, what do you have going on with suit funding / projects? | 17:47 |
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| kanzure | so we kind of are doing things backwards in here when it comes to hardware | 17:48 |
| kanzure | er, i mean, in the sense of business | 17:48 |
| kanzure | we started with hardware ideas that we wanted to implement, so we've been working towards that | 17:48 |
| kanzure | so just be warned that a lot of this isn't actually a uh.. product | 17:48 |
| kanzure | crazy mad scientist stuff, more than anything | 17:49 |
| kanzure | although the idea of a kit store has been pitched a few times and work has happened on that front (or on the modular open source hardware designs re: cubespawn et al.) | 17:49 |
| lepton_ | ^no worries, I tend to occupy that space a fair amount too | 17:49 |
| kanzure | so anyway, back in january i got some funding | 17:49 |
| kanzure | it's not really funding. it's a one-time (well, potentially more time) dump of cash | 17:49 |
| kanzure | that i do not have to pay back | 17:49 |
| lepton_ | lovely! | 17:49 |
| kanzure | :) | 17:50 |
| kanzure | the deal though is that i can't spend it on my personal living expenses | 17:50 |
| kanzure | the other two points are that i can't tell peeps how much money it was, | 17:50 |
| kanzure | and that i can't tell you who gave it to me | 17:50 |
| kanzure | although we've got quite adept at guessing names around here (heh) | 17:50 |
| lepton_ | so what is it specfically funding for? | 17:50 |
| kanzure | my crazy projects, but i expanded it to include stuff that goes on in here as well | 17:51 |
| kanzure | i was thinking of i.e. paying for nootropics for everyone | 17:51 |
| kanzure | okay, that's not particularly crazy | 17:51 |
| lepton_ | haha | 17:51 |
| lepton_ | Depends on the nootropics | 17:51 |
| kanzure | but presumably you know about the hardware prototyping, apt-get-for-hardware work we're supposedly doing | 17:51 |
| lepton_ | Though I've fallen out of that habit lately | 17:51 |
| lepton_ | Yeap, as a matter of fact I've shown several people the youtube videos this weekend | 17:52 |
| lepton_ | I particually like the "pull a debian" on hardware line | 17:52 |
| kanzure | :) | 17:52 |
| lepton_ | so then the funding is pointed in the skdb direction? | 17:53 |
| kanzure | so getting people who are skilled in machining *and* know about debian, is asking for almost the impossible | 17:53 |
| kanzure | yes | 17:53 |
| lepton_ | Well, there's always the EMC2 crowd for debian user machinists | 17:54 |
| kanzure | yeah :) | 17:54 |
| kanzure | fenn used to be do emc2 development apparently | 17:55 |
| lepton_ | (and us {my partner Dan and I}) | 17:55 |
| kanzure | he was living in my closet for a while until he was seduced by california | 17:55 |
| bkero | emc2? | 17:56 |
| kanzure | http://linuxcnc.org/ | 17:56 |
| lepton_ | As a tangent comment, the world desperatly needs better open source CAM (computer aided manufacturing / CNC toolpath generation) software | 17:58 |
| lepton_ | I'd be delighted to see the opencascade framework be used to develop in that direction | 17:58 |
| kanzure | have you seen heekscad and heekscnc? | 17:58 |
| kanzure | heekscad a wx gui on top of opencascade | 17:59 |
| kanzure | heekscnc does cam, but i've never used it so don't take this as a voucher | 17:59 |
| kanzure | *heekscad is a wx gui | 17:59 |
| lepton_ | Yes, but imo heekscnc is still a long way from being a replacement for commerical CAM packages | 18:00 |
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| lepton_ | I wish I had infinite time and could develop features, but sadly we broke down and purchased Solidcam last week | 18:01 |
| kanzure | sure | 18:05 |
| lepton_ | On the up side, we can make complex toolpath files about 10 times faster than before, and it'll all parametric linked to our solidworks models so changes propagate up and down | 18:06 |
| lepton_ | By that I mean our user workflow is about 10 times faster, toolpath calculation is pretty faster with whatever we use | 18:06 |
| kanzure | reverse engineering the solidworks fileformat has been on my todo list for a while | 18:07 |
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| lepton_ | They're super liberal about sending out SDK's, in my experience | 18:07 |
| lepton_ | not sure if that would help at all | 18:08 |
| lepton_ | I think an open file format for parametricly defined 3d objects would be a very helpful thing | 18:08 |
| lepton_ | but I don't know of such a format right now | 18:08 |
| kanzure | openscad is trying to do that, but they don't export to CAD | 18:14 |
| lepton_ | interesting | 18:15 |
| kanzure | they just do stl meshes | 18:16 |
| kanzure | lepton_: do you have access to ISO docs? | 18:17 |
| lepton_ | Yeah, as opposed to a parametric file format that would allow that parametric data to move between different programs | 18:17 |
| lepton_ | As in the ISO standards documentation? | 18:17 |
| kanzure | yes | 18:17 |
| lepton_ | Directly, no | 18:17 |
| kanzure | utexas.edu didn't have any access >:( | 18:17 |
| kanzure | it makes it hard to get work done | 18:17 |
| kanzure | i mean, when you're thinking about standards | 18:17 |
| lepton_ | I can see if colorado.edu has access | 18:17 |
| lepton_ | ^yeap | 18:18 |
| kanzure | okay. if it does i'd like to write a scraper | 18:18 |
| kanzure | torrent that shit | 18:18 |
| lepton_ | I did that with some of the IEEE libararies a while back | 18:18 |
| kanzure | i did it with nature.com | 18:18 |
| kanzure | .. the whole thing. | 18:18 |
| lepton_ | :) | 18:18 |
| kanzure | so if you'd like a copy, uh | 18:18 |
| lepton_ | likewise | 18:18 |
| lepton_ | I've got about 10 or so gigs of technical papers | 18:18 |
| kanzure | yay. maybe i'll send you a hard drive | 18:18 |
| kanzure | http://designfiles.org/papers/ | 18:19 |
| lepton_ | I'd be really happy to get some mirrors going | 18:19 |
| kanzure | if you could upload papers to that directory, that would be hot | 18:19 |
| kanzure | another potentially fast connection to it is http://bio.cc/Bioinformics/papers/ | 18:19 |
| lepton_ | how should I go about logging in? | 18:19 |
| lepton_ | sftp? | 18:20 |
| kanzure | i can give you an account | 18:20 |
| kanzure | yes | 18:20 |
| lepton_ | Great | 18:20 |
| lepton_ | send me an email and I'll get it going when I get back home | 18:20 |
| lepton_ | I'm currently on a laptop at a coffee shop | 18:20 |
| lepton_ | Most of my stuff is electrical or mechanical engineering related, which lots of focus on motor design and embedded electronics | 18:20 |
| lepton_ | a fair amount of machining and nootropic related stuff, too | 18:21 |
| lepton_ | and then a long long tail of misc | 18:21 |
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| lepton_ | got it, I'll start upload this evening | 18:24 |
| JayDugger | Good evening, everyone. | 18:24 |
| lepton_ | Howdy | 18:25 |
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| lepton_ | kanzure: what sort of work and development (in physical space) do you see as being highest priority for skdb for now? | 18:30 |
| kanzure | simple packages that demonstrate the concept | 18:30 |
| kanzure | so i've been playing around with a laser cutter for lab-on-a-chip microfluidics | 18:31 |
| kanzure | another high priority is fixing the name :( | 18:33 |
| lepton_ | part-get? | 18:33 |
| lepton_ | instead of apt-get :p | 18:33 |
| lepton_ | thing-get | 18:33 |
| kanzure | "tangible get" was proposed a while back | 18:33 |
| lepton_ | hmm | 18:33 |
| lepton_ | tangi-get | 18:33 |
| kanzure | but smari took it for his own implementation or something | 18:33 |
| kanzure | weird social dynamic things going on there | 18:34 |
| kanzure | http://tangibleget.com/ | 18:34 |
| kanzure | i was thinking of using a name like "tangible kit" then ;) | 18:34 |
| kanzure | oh | 18:34 |
| kanzure | http://tangiblebit.com/ | 18:34 |
| kanzure | sorry, it was tangible bit | 18:34 |
| lepton_ | ahh | 18:34 |
| kanzure | i was thinking tangible bit -> tangible git -> tangible get | 18:35 |
| lepton_ | That just reminds me of the "atoms are the new bits" arguments of last year | 18:35 |
| kanzure | i wish :/ people are infatuated with their bits (and no i don't mean drill bits) | 18:35 |
| lepton_ | haha | 18:35 |
| lepton_ | Back to simple examples, can you give an example of the workflow for someone who wants to reproduce a package | 18:36 |
| lepton_ | Let's say I've got a laser cutter and want to make a microfluidics part/assembly | 18:36 |
| kanzure | well ideally, the user just types "make blah" | 18:37 |
| kanzure | in high automation facilities you can imagine this then configuring cnc equipment and other automation tools | 18:37 |
| kanzure | but for now we just have poor humans | 18:37 |
| kanzure | so the concept has been to use templated instruction sets | 18:38 |
| kanzure | i.e. like templates in web design if you're familiar with that | 18:38 |
| kanzure | and then just string them together via some software | 18:38 |
| kanzure | instead of machine instructions, it's human instructions | 18:38 |
| QuantumG | you mean slavery! | 18:39 |
| kanzure | yes | 18:39 |
| kanzure | i enslave my human body | 18:39 |
| QuantumG | :) | 18:39 |
| JayDugger | Heh, heh...and once you've human instructions, you can wade into the morass of business processes. | 18:40 |
| lepton_ | Hmm, seems reminiscent of GPS, or fast-food computer systems that give in-ear instructions to workers. In both cases the software is trying to guide to the human such that the human doesn't have to think at all | 18:40 |
| kanzure | welll | 18:40 |
| kanzure | i have this simple system i can demo.. one sec | 18:40 |
| kanzure | this is a distributed sms-based system for instructions | 18:40 |
| kanzure | http://adl.serveftp.org:8091/projector/projects/ | 18:40 |
| kanzure | do *not* press "RUN" anywhere | 18:40 |
| kanzure | it really sends out text messages | 18:40 |
| QuantumG | <kanzure> i enslave my human body <- yes, it really looks like that's the situation from where I'm sitting ;) | 18:40 |
| kanzure | there are dependencies on tasks, and stuff | 18:41 |
| kanzure | so users have to text back "ok i'm done" (well, right now just "ok" and "okay") | 18:41 |
| lepton_ | Yeap, I like the idea of project projector a lot. I think some of the burning man groups around here could make use of something like that very well | 18:41 |
| lepton_ | since a lot of them are working on big distruted projects | 18:41 |
| kanzure | oh i mentioned it yesterday. oops. i'm really not that proud of it, because i doubt anyone will use it | 18:42 |
| kanzure | i.e. why not just follow the instructions yourself ;) | 18:42 |
| JayDugger | kanzure, you might build in a market where humans could bid on doing those human instructions. :) | 18:42 |
| lepton_ | ...yeah, it seems more like a system for project management than a system for automating people's work | 18:42 |
| kanzure | JayDugger: you mean Amazon Mechanical Turk? | 18:42 |
| lepton_ | ^cool idea | 18:42 |
| JayDugger | More broadly, but yes. Shame it's been invented. <Duh EMOTICON HERE> | 18:43 |
| lepton_ | It could be more physical than Mechanial turk. If it was popular enough on a local level you could get folks to come by and actually perform physical tasks | 18:43 |
| kanzure | one of the ideas i got hooked up on for a while was doing some sort of language that could be converted into gcode as well as human instructions | 18:43 |
| lepton_ | But that sort of thing needs a critical mass of people | 18:43 |
| kanzure | but not everyone can do programming like that ;) | 18:44 |
| JayDugger | Foursquare's new (what jobs are here?) | 18:44 |
| lepton_ | but then what kind of gcode | 18:44 |
| lepton_ | because gcode is so not a stanard | 18:44 |
| lepton_ | at least that's what I've been learning this year | 18:44 |
| kanzure | yeah, i agree, i was using that as a general token i guess | 18:44 |
| lepton_ | most CNC machines need machine / brand specific gcode post processors | 18:44 |
| kanzure | i mean to say the general idea of generating control instructions | 18:44 |
| JayDugger | Gcode:machines::choreography:humans?? | 18:44 |
| kanzure | for a variety of different equipment | 18:44 |
| lepton_ | It's kinda like modbus, another non-standard standard I've had to work with | 18:44 |
| lepton_ | I've been using openSBP, which is a g-code similar language developed and open sourced by the company shopbot (you're probably familier, they're a commerical product similar to mechmate) | 18:45 |
| kanzure | yeah, ted whoever-it-is-that-runs-shopbot hangs out on openmanufacturing | 18:45 |
| lepton_ | I've noticed that | 18:46 |
| lepton_ | I wish his employees were as cool as he is :/ | 18:46 |
| lepton_ | I've had a less than great experience working with their tech's to develop a post processor so non-vetric software | 18:46 |
| lepton_ | but all ended well, so I shouldn't complain | 18:46 |
| lepton_ | Anyway, it seems to me that trying to develop skdb with a focus on open hardware manufacturing systems like the rep-rap or makerbot, or perhaps just open control software like EMC2, avoids the issue of dealing with an overwhelming number of propritary systems | 18:47 |
| kanzure | yes | 18:48 |
| kanzure | i want to get skdb hooked up with a reprap or makerbot | 18:48 |
| kanzure | in particular, i recently imported thingiverse.com into skdb package form | 18:48 |
| kanzure | er, well, almost | 18:48 |
| kanzure | they are partial packages or stub packages | 18:48 |
| kanzure | because they don't have instructions with them | 18:48 |
| kanzure | http://designfiles.org/~bryan/thingiverse/thingiverse_packages/ | 18:48 |
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| kanzure | hi quantumkat | 18:49 |
| lepton_ | If it plays well with EMC2 that opens it up to a lot of potential machines | 18:50 |
| lepton_ | Since you can use EMC2 to run just about anything | 18:51 |
| lepton_ | An interesting demo example would be using skdb to download the relavent files / instruct the user with material dependancies to make a makerbot or reprap make parts for itself | 18:54 |
| lepton_ | That makes it immediately relavent and attainable for anyone with a reprap/makerbot | 18:54 |
| kanzure | fenn: how's your makerbot coming along | 18:56 |
| lepton_ | alright folks, I'm heading back home | 19:11 |
| lepton_ | will upload papers when I get there | 19:11 |
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| JayDugger | Wasn't fenn building a reprap? | 19:15 |
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| ybit | what's katsmeow's email? | 19:21 |
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| lepton_ | Presently uploading to designfiles.org at the smoking hot speeds of 16 KB/S | 20:11 |
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| kanzure | lepton_: upload speeds suck. download is ok though :/ | 20:18 |
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| lepton_ | my up limit here is pretty slow, too | 20:22 |
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| * kanzure messes with facebook app fbml bullshit :/ | 20:26 | |
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| lepton_ | kanzure: Do you know if the SMESH and GEOM directories have changed in the pythonOCC SVN? I'm trying to follow John's ubuntu 10.04 compile process, but it seems like the SVN CO I did doesn't match what he's refering to from a few days ago | 20:45 |
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| * kanzure is showing off http://pinkarmy.org/ in #startups at the moment | 20:46 | |
| kanzure | heh i was at john's house last night for a crawfish boil | 20:46 |
| kanzure | i haven't compiled SMESH or GEOM, ever- or maybe just once- but in general i avoid them | 20:46 |
| kanzure | you can always do svn co -r revision_id_here i guess | 20:46 |
| kanzure | for the actual technical deets, see http://pinkarmy.org/images/Pink_Army_Cooperative.pdf (page 14 especially) | 20:47 |
| kanzure | and http://pinkarmy.org/pa_factsheet.pdf | 20:47 |
| lepton_ | Pink Army looks like a pretty great project | 20:48 |
| kanzure | :) | 20:48 |
| lepton_ | Sadly GEOM is critical to what I"m doing | 20:48 |
| lepton_ | I don't think I care about SMESH all that much at the moment | 20:48 |
| kanzure | i'm supposed to be coding up some of the software behind PA one of these days (oops) | 20:48 |
| kanzure | what does GEOM have in it? | 20:48 |
| lepton_ | I believe it's necessary for PAF? | 20:48 |
| kanzure | ah | 20:48 |
| lepton_ | And PAF is the central piece of my optimization work | 20:49 |
| kanzure | i have a fresh installation of ubuntu around here somewhere, i'll whip up some instructions | 20:49 |
| kanzure | but i'm not sure if that will be today or tomorrow | 20:49 |
| kanzure | hmm decisions decisions.. uh.. | 20:49 |
| lepton_ | Well, if you think it would be easy for you to accomplish, that could be great | 20:50 |
| kanzure | sure i can take a crack at it | 20:50 |
| lepton_ | I think what we really need is a step by step guide for Ubuntu 10.04 | 20:50 |
| kanzure | pythonocc is a pig to work with, you need a firm hand | 20:50 |
| lepton_ | That would help people like Marcos, too | 20:50 |
| kanzure | ideally a .deb is needed | 20:50 |
| lepton_ | He and I seem to be in a similar position | 20:50 |
| lepton_ | indeed | 20:50 |
| lepton_ | Who was it that put together the deb package recently (the one that doesn't include GEOM or SMESH)? | 20:51 |
| kanzure | lepton_: Marcos Elgueta Soulat? | 20:51 |
| kanzure | i think thomas did one? | 20:51 |
| kanzure | Marcos seems to be in my database. must be him then http://designfiles.org/~bryan/meetlog/meetlog.txt | 20:51 |
| lepton_ | Yeap, that Marcos | 20:51 |
| lepton_ | The one who's posted a fair bit on the PythonOCC list recently | 20:51 |
| lepton_ | The Aerospace engineering student | 20:52 |
| kanzure | wing optimization stuff | 20:52 |
| kanzure | yeah | 20:52 |
| lepton_ | Yeah | 20:52 |
| lepton_ | He seems to be having a lot of trouble getting GEOM compiled and working, too | 20:52 |
| lepton_ | I've been reading through the list archives, but it's hard to figure out how much progress he actually make | 20:53 |
| lepton_ | I'm under the impression that he's still not functional | 20:53 |
| lepton_ | Nor am I | 20:53 |
| lepton_ | with PAF | 20:53 |
| kanzure | thomas did a youtube video upload showing off some PAF features | 20:53 |
| kanzure | it was pretty neat :) | 20:53 |
| lepton_ | yeap, I've seen it | 20:53 |
| kanzure | ok, so i'll do this tomorrow | 20:54 |
| lepton_ | I've actually even gotten that demo working in OpenSuse using some existing packages | 20:54 |
| kanzure | if you want to make sure that it actually happens, i highly recommend you bug me over the phone tomorrow at some point | 20:54 |
| kanzure | otherwise i might forget :P | 20:54 |
| lepton_ | but everything else I do is in a debian environment, so I'd be really happy to forget about OpenSuse altogether for now | 20:54 |
| lepton_ | Okay, if you've asked for it I'll buy you tomorrow :) | 20:54 |
| kanzure | buy me huh? | 20:54 |
| lepton_ | bug* | 20:54 |
| kanzure | heh | 20:54 |
| lepton_ | meh, it must be getting late | 20:55 |
| kanzure | btw if opensuse has packages, the 'alien' tool might be able to convert them | 20:55 |
| lepton_ | I tried | 20:55 |
| lepton_ | unsuccessfully | 20:55 |
| kanzure | lovely | 20:55 |
| lepton_ | I don't think I still have the logs of the problem, though | 20:55 |
| lepton_ | YMMV | 20:55 |
| lepton_ | If I can get PAF up, I should be fairly home-free in happy Pythonic scripting land | 20:56 |
| lepton_ | Then I can start doing so actual engineering! | 20:56 |
| lepton_ | some* | 20:56 |
| kanzure | i'm doing a presentation in austin, tx in late june on pythonocc, btw | 20:58 |
| kanzure | at scipy2010 | 20:58 |
| lepton_ | Yeah, Jelle mentioned that on the pythonOCC list | 20:58 |
| kanzure | you should show up and check out my machine shop.. thing. | 20:58 |
| lepton_ | Austin hackerspace? | 20:58 |
| kanzure | yes | 20:58 |
| lepton_ | I'd actually be rather interested | 20:58 |
| lepton_ | The question is time | 20:58 |
| kanzure | i know how you feel | 20:59 |
| kanzure | i'm actually doing two presentations at scipy2010 | 20:59 |
| kanzure | and two papers O_o | 20:59 |
| lepton_ | We've got some conferences that our Scuba equipment will be showing at around that time, too | 20:59 |
| lepton_ | What on? | 20:59 |
| kanzure | the other one is on datapkg, basically apt-get for scientific data | 20:59 |
| kanzure | http://okfn.org/datapkg | 20:59 |
| kanzure | and while i'm at it, there's another presentation upcoming on june 12th/13th in boston at h+ summit 2010 | 21:00 |
| kanzure | http://hplussummit.com/speakers.html | 21:00 |
| lepton_ | I might have to send an emissary to that one | 21:01 |
| lepton_ | I've got some good friends in Boston | 21:01 |
| lepton_ | This will actually be the first year of the past six that I won't be visiting Boston in the summer | 21:01 |
| lepton_ | Nice line up of speakers | 21:01 |
| kanzure | yeah.. we even have the chuck e. cheese's guy. | 21:02 |
| lepton_ | Congrats on being on the same pages as Kurzweil, Wolfram and Aubrey de Grey | 21:02 |
| kanzure | they are amateurs | 21:02 |
| kanzure | ahaha | 21:02 |
| kanzure | i'm messed up. | 21:02 |
| drazak | kanzure: who put together http://openwetware.org/wiki/DIYbio/FAQ/Equipment#Chemicals_and_Reagents_are_expensive.__How_can_I_make_my_own.3F__What_can_I_substitute.3F | 21:09 |
| kanzure | probably jonathan cline | 21:09 |
| drazak | they use my posts like 4 times | 21:10 |
| kanzure | heh | 21:10 |
| drazak | I dunno how I feel about that | 21:10 |
| drazak | I don't know how good of a reference I am :P | 21:10 |
| kanzure | i'm primarily responsible for this: | 21:10 |
| kanzure | http://openwetware.org/wiki/DIYbio/FAQ#Has_DIYbio_been_in_the_news.3F | 21:10 |
| kanzure | lepton_: you should click^ | 21:11 |
| lepton_ | :clicks: | 21:12 |
| lepton_ | I've actually seen a few of those articles before | 21:12 |
| kanzure | a few of them are about me/us in here :D | 21:13 |
| lepton_ | yay, first directory is just about to finish upping to designfiles.org | 21:15 |
| lepton_ | Only like 10 gigs to go to do a complete up 0_o | 21:15 |
| kanzure | i could just uh, snailmail you a hard drive | 21:15 |
| lepton_ | You threw out the topic of nootropics earlier today, so perhaps that's next | 21:16 |
| lepton_ | Yeah, it's possibly more time efficient | 21:16 |
| lepton_ | Through I'd send it on a flash stick | 21:16 |
| lepton_ | That's more volumetriclly efficient | 21:16 |
| lepton_ | oh how my IRC client needs spell check... | 21:16 |
| kanzure | http://designfiles.org/papers/longevity/ might be particularly interesting | 21:17 |
| lepton_ | I'll up my resveratrol directory after piracetam is done, that has some good longevity relavence | 21:18 |
| kanzure | nice. | 21:18 |
| lepton_ | Though I'm really not a biologist | 21:18 |
| kanzure | neither are the biologists? | 21:18 |
| kanzure | anyway, it's time for me to go crash and act like my body is still capable of sleep | 21:19 |
| lepton_ | Yeah, I'm heading to that point, too | 21:19 |
| lepton_ | You central time zone? | 21:19 |
| kanzure | yes | 21:19 |
| lepton_ | We're mountain, of course | 21:19 |
| kanzure | "a mile closer to the stars" | 21:19 |
| lepton_ | More like 1.2 miles | 21:19 |
| lepton_ | :p | 21:20 |
| kanzure | time to rig up a few lasers to calculate the exact elevation, my friend | 21:20 |
| lepton_ | well, probably 1.1 at my house | 21:20 |
| lepton_ | I'll just ask my phone | 21:20 |
| kanzure | that's +/- 10ft at best | 21:20 |
| lepton_ | it knows the elevation of the cell towers, and can triangulate from there | 21:20 |
| lepton_ | True, true | 21:20 |
| lepton_ | my roommate does laser measurement of mirrors for the James Webb Space Telescope | 21:20 |
| lepton_ | He has good measurement equipment | 21:21 |
| kanzure | night | 21:22 |
| lepton_ | Goodnight | 21:22 |
| genehacker | holy shit we can make Taq | 21:32 |
| lepton_ | as in the polymerase? | 21:38 |
| genehacker | yeah | 21:39 |
| genehacker | as in polymerase | 21:39 |
| lepton_ | researching - seems useful for a lot of processes | 21:41 |
| genehacker | exactly... | 21:41 |
| lepton_ | how difficult is it to make? | 21:42 |
| genehacker | now if we could make some restriction enzymes | 21:42 |
| genehacker | http://openwetware.org/wiki/DIYbio/FAQ/Equipment#Chemicals_and_Reagents_are_expensive.__How_can_I_make_my_own.3F__What_can_I_substitute.3F | 21:42 |
| genehacker | see for yourself | 21:42 |
| lepton_ | How are you physically making this? To what extent is it automated? | 21:42 |
| genehacker | I'm not | 21:43 |
| genehacker | it can be automated | 21:43 |
| lepton_ | I'm generally curious about what DIY Bio people are using for hardware | 21:43 |
| genehacker | ask one of the few people doing diybio | 21:44 |
| lepton_ | At a previous job I was doing electronics / controls development for an automated chemical mixing system | 21:44 |
| genehacker | a syringe bot thingie? | 21:44 |
| lepton_ | Yeah | 21:44 |
| lepton_ | I wonder how much that sort of stuff gets used, versus manual procedures | 21:44 |
| genehacker | quick question, could one potentially make any chemical compound if it had access to raw materials, catalysts, seperaters, heaters and such? | 21:45 |
| genehacker | not much in diybio | 21:45 |
| genehacker | or I don't think anyone at all who does diybio does | 21:46 |
| genehacker | there aren't many people doing diybio | 21:46 |
| lepton_ | I think it's well within the scope of arduino's and makerbots | 21:46 |
| genehacker | at the very most there are probably 20 last time I checked | 21:46 |
| lepton_ | The hardware needs are pretty simple to do a lot of automated chemistry | 21:46 |
| genehacker | how accurate do those machiens have to be? | 21:46 |
| lepton_ | hmm | 21:46 |
| genehacker | any problems with the machine contaminating the samples? | 21:47 |
| genehacker | what are those machines used for in industry? | 21:47 |
| lepton_ | The physical accuracy largely depends on syringe pump design/selection, and motors and gearing | 21:47 |
| lepton_ | At my previous job it was being researched as a means of optmizing water treatment plant chemical dosage | 21:47 |
| genehacker | well how accurate do they need to be? centimeters? millimeters? mililiters | 21:48 |
| genehacker | how? | 21:48 |
| genehacker | figure out how much chemical it takes to kill x% bacteria? | 21:48 |
| lepton_ | bah, computer problems | 21:49 |
| lepton_ | The system I worked on did image analysis on flocculating particles that formed because of van-der-vaal force based coagulation | 21:50 |
| genehacker | oh neat found a paper describing exactly what you were doing | 21:50 |
| lepton_ | oh really? | 21:51 |
| lepton_ | link? | 21:51 |
| genehacker | yeah on removing heavy metals from anaerobic sludge or something | 21:51 |
| genehacker | www.bvsde.paho.org/bvsaidis/mexico26/iii-021.pdf | 21:51 |
| lepton_ | yeah, it's done in sludge processes, too | 21:51 |
| lepton_ | our stuff was drinking water focused | 21:51 |
| genehacker | image analysis now that's pretty cool | 21:52 |
| lepton_ | and didn't go all that far, failed startup company. I'd be interested in re-implementing it as an open hardware project | 21:52 |
| lepton_ | yeah, we used OpenCV for image processing | 21:52 |
| lepton_ | Worked out very well | 21:52 |
| genehacker | so the camera looked at the samples to see if they were different colors to see if it was one thing or a another or measured the different degrees of floculation | 21:52 |
| lepton_ | I had to develop an improve volume estimage singe we were using a single camera and had to estimate volume of translucent particles from 2D images | 21:53 |
| genehacker | to a degree then | 21:53 |
| genehacker | neat | 21:53 |
| genehacker | jeez I didn't even know it was possible to do that with something as simple as a camera | 21:53 |
| lepton_ | We started off with USB webcams, but ended up doing a PCB with a 5 megapixel Micron/Aptina CMOS sensor | 21:54 |
| genehacker | so usb webcams aren't good enough or were cheaper? | 21:55 |
| lepton_ | Ran it all on an embedded linux board, the Gumstix Overo (which is basically just an OMAP 3530 ARM processor) | 21:55 |
| genehacker | on gumstix too? | 21:55 |
| lepton_ | yeah, trying to do it on USB on a propritary logitech webcam wasn't very consistent | 21:55 |
| lepton_ | the device needed to operate for months at a time, and it would drop out | 21:56 |
| lepton_ | but that was only a temporary fix anyway because we had delays in getting the CMOS sensor we wanted in the first place | 21:56 |
| lepton_ | so we got a driver working for that and all was pretty well | 21:56 |
| genehacker | but it would work consistent enough? | 21:57 |
| lepton_ | We did processing on the image at about 10 FPS at 1480x1080 or something aroudn that | 21:57 |
| lepton_ | The USB webcams were never very good (we used the logitech quickcam 9000) | 21:57 |
| lepton_ | but the CMOS sensor was perfectly reliable | 21:57 |
| genehacker | what needed to be done to make it consistent, adjust the white balance or what not? | 21:57 |
| kanzure | http://www.stereopsis.com/flux/ | 21:57 |
| lepton_ | The image analsis itself, or the hardware communication? | 21:57 |
| genehacker | so the hardware communication was harder with webcams? | 21:58 |
| lepton_ | Byran, that's awesome | 21:58 |
| lepton_ | aren't you supposed to be sleeping? | 21:58 |
| kanzure | uhh uhhhh | 21:58 |
| kanzure | this is bryan's uh | 21:58 |
| kanzure | fuck. | 21:58 |
| genehacker | that software assist with sleeping | 21:58 |
| * kanzure hides | 21:59 | |
| lepton_ | yeah, comm dropped out with irregularity on the usb systems. the CMOS sensor connected via a 12 (I think) bit parallel interface to the ARM processor | 21:59 |
| genehacker | oh don't worry about kanzure it's just his clone or he's sleep typing again | 21:59 |
| genehacker | so what about if the webcam was connected to just a laptop would you have that problem? | 22:00 |
| lepton_ | Hmm, I don't think we actually tried running it for days at a time on a regular x86 computer with a desktop operating system | 22:01 |
| lepton_ | that probably would have been a good idea for debugging | 22:01 |
| genehacker | well I don't think I'll be running it days at a time... | 22:01 |
| lepton_ | But we ultimately wanted a sensor on our PCB | 22:01 |
| lepton_ | the USB stuff was just a dev workaround while we waited for hardware | 22:01 |
| lepton_ | What are you doing? | 22:02 |
| genehacker | nothing, mainly considering giving reprap pick and place capability | 22:02 |
| genehacker | also making Taq | 22:02 |
| genehacker | but that doesn't require a webcam | 22:02 |
| lepton_ | oh I'm really interested in doing machine vision for pick and place | 22:02 |
| genehacker | really? | 22:03 |
| lepton_ | and doing it with OpenCV like that other project | 22:03 |
| lepton_ | Oh yeah! I've talked about it on numerous occasion | 22:03 |
| genehacker | well if you want, want to make a pick and place head for reprap? | 22:03 |
| lepton_ | Because pick and place is one of our biggest needs, AND we have a CNC that could do it | 22:03 |
| lepton_ | but we don't have control | 22:03 |
| genehacker | that's the main problem | 22:03 |
| lepton_ | sure, I'd be in to that | 22:03 |
| lepton_ | I even saved a few links on how to do it a while back | 22:03 |
| lepton_ | though suction | 22:03 |
| genehacker | yup | 22:04 |
| lepton_ | we just need time / money to do that | 22:04 |
| lepton_ | unfortunately I haven't had a pay check in about 9 months | 22:04 |
| genehacker | I have a tool head design for one, except I need to modify it to accomodate a camera | 22:04 |
| genehacker | well I'll I need is software that can recognize where an arbitrary component is with a camera | 22:04 |
| lepton_ | Well, I can CNC things to try out if you have cad files | 22:04 |
| lepton_ | You can do that very easily with openCV | 22:05 |
| lepton_ | I could definetly provide guidance | 22:05 |
| genehacker | any arbitrary component? | 22:05 |
| genehacker | as in part number, part shape? | 22:05 |
| lepton_ | well, define arbitary | 22:05 |
| lepton_ | if you have a part number on the part, and a database / BOM to reference, that goes a long way | 22:05 |
| genehacker | electronic components have standard numbering and part shapes | 22:06 |
| lepton_ | but there's so much variation in packaging | 22:06 |
| lepton_ | even within a part | 22:06 |
| lepton_ | That's true, and not true | 22:06 |
| lepton_ | I mean, there are standards, but they're not strictly adheared to at all | 22:06 |
| lepton_ | We do a lot of by-hand building, and a fair amount of having board houses assemble for us | 22:06 |
| genehacker | oh well then it's not required | 22:06 |
| lepton_ | and it's never a complete straight shot with packaging, there are usually weird variations | 22:06 |
| genehacker | this just means one will have to place components in organized slots instead of unorganized ones | 22:07 |
| lepton_ | However, I think that if for each project an operator uses the pick and place machine's camera to take a reference picture of each piece, that tremendouly helps the situation for image recognition | 22:07 |
| genehacker | so component position is all I really need | 22:07 |
| lepton_ | Yeah, and that's standard for circuit CAD post processors | 22:08 |
| lepton_ | I think that image recognition on the parts can help a good bit with placement, too | 22:08 |
| genehacker | yeah as I said all I need is component position | 22:09 |
| lepton_ | I should get to sleep, too | 22:09 |
| genehacker | sleep is for slackers! | 22:09 |
| lepton_ | umm... lucid dream research, then? | 22:10 |
| genehacker | ok go ahead | 22:10 |
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| fenn | openscad could theoretically use opencascade bindings to do stuff and export as step | 23:11 |
| genehacker | use opencascade bindings to manipulate openscad code? | 23:13 |
| genehacker | so we can actually have real smart dimensions? | 23:14 |
| genehacker | if you do that, that would make you incredibly awesome | 23:14 |
| fenn | tonight's project: http://fennetic.net/irc/nema17_nema14_adapter.jpg | 23:20 |
| fenn | ugh. internet is fubared here | 23:20 |
| genehacker | reprapping? | 23:21 |
| fenn | kanzure: you asked how the reprap was coming: http://fennetic.net/irc/minimendel.jpg | 23:26 |
| fenn | still need to do belts and electronics | 23:26 |
| fenn | and make the extruder | 23:26 |
| fenn | btw it's not a makerbot | 23:26 |
| fenn | makerbots are the devil | 23:26 |
| genehacker | I saw the original makerbot once, should I have driven a stake through it's extruder? | 23:38 |
| genehacker | and yes they are evil | 23:39 |
| fenn | i find closing my eyes to be more effective than changing the white balance of my monitor | 23:39 |
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