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| kanzure | oh look! arrows! http://manufakturingruendung.ch/userfiles/image/seiten/OSH_production_future.png | 06:51 |
|---|---|---|
| kanzure | Visualizing the open manufacturing value stream and cooperation network http://blog.p2pfoundation.net/?p=9064 | 06:51 |
| thesnark | Clearly arrows always mean you have something important to say | 06:52 |
| kanzure | ohh, boxes too! | 06:52 |
| thesnark | 2nd link is broken | 06:52 |
| kanzure | michel bauwens commonly links to blog posts that don't exist yet | 06:52 |
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| JayDugger | Good morning, everyone. | 07:02 |
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| kanzure | what's going on here? http://thestartuptoolkit.com | 07:19 |
| JayDugger | Silentale runs a special on accounts--free through 31 May. | 07:20 |
| JayDugger | I signed up, but they don't yet impress me. They look too much like Plaxo to me. | 07:21 |
| JayDugger | They want a change in workflow, and that breaks my habits without clearly offering substantial improvement. | 07:21 |
| JayDugger | Lessons for 1kfriendly. | 07:21 |
| JayDugger | ehhh....on-line whiteboard with template? Kind of neat, I guess... | 07:22 |
| JayDugger | Oh, speaking of which--does anyone know of good whiteboard paint? I moved (still move) this weekend, and redecorating a wall has some appeal. | 07:23 |
| JayDugger | I'd like paint that costs less than a video projector, its power, and its maintenance. | 07:23 |
| thesnark | "We'll try our best to preserve your data, but no guarantees." Hmmm | 07:24 |
| JayDugger | Prezi has it beat for cool, but I am a sucker for zooming user interfaces. I am also a sucker for goth fashion, so YMMV. | 07:25 |
| JayDugger | A point for their honesty, thesnark. | 07:25 |
| thesnark | Perhaps, but that does not encourage me to use it :) | 07:25 |
| JayDugger | Amen. | 07:25 |
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| kanzure | http://soft-transcend.org/Fulfillment/chatLogs/052910_IPandTheFuture.htm | 07:32 |
| kanzure | ugh uh oh | 07:32 |
| kanzure | nanosocialism? :/ | 07:33 |
| thesnark | summarize please | 07:33 |
| kanzure | "[2010/05/29 11:22] Zobeid Zuma: They have been documented using hackers to steal the blueprints and operating manuals of entire factories and then build a duplicate. It happens." | 07:33 |
| kanzure | it's just a chat log from the cosmic engineers | 07:34 |
| kanzure | they have started doing weekly meetings apparently | 07:34 |
| kanzure | which is nice and all, but i find their insight lacking | 07:34 |
| thesnark | haha nanosocialism? | 07:34 |
| thesnark | isn't that just called sharing? | 07:34 |
| thesnark | Even if you're talking about reproducing products with your own means | 07:34 |
| thesnark | Sounds like sharing to me | 07:35 |
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| thesnark | besides, socialism is such a broad term | 07:35 |
| thesnark | imo people should always avoid terms ending with ism if they want to be clear about what they mean | 07:36 |
| JayDugger | What's the current status of Makerbeam? http://makerbeam.com/ | 07:36 |
| JayDugger | http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/405545346/lasersaur-open-source-laser-cutter-0 | 07:39 |
| * thesnark feels like a progress dashboard for projects would be helpful | 07:40 | |
| JayDugger | Kickstarter for an open source laser cutter. | 07:40 |
| thesnark | I think this kind of thing could be integrated with project projector | 07:40 |
| JayDugger | The video is annoying. The woman on the right hand side would get better use of her shirt's low neckline if she'd put down the coffee cup during the filiming. | 07:40 |
| JayDugger | What's project projector? | 07:41 |
| thesnark | sec | 07:41 |
| thesnark | need to find link | 07:41 |
| thesnark | fffuuu accessed it on my other machine | 07:42 |
| thesnark | kanzure could you show JayDugger what you showed me? | 07:44 |
| kanzure | http://adl.serveftp.org:8091/projector/projects/ do not click "run" | 07:44 |
| kanzure | "for under 3k" | 07:45 |
| kanzure | that's a pricey target | 07:45 |
| thesnark | kanzure have to start somewhere I suppose, maybe there is a justification for that price somewhere | 07:46 |
| kanzure | i doubt it | 07:46 |
| kanzure | les filip and i were going to do an open source laser cutter for about $500 each | 07:46 |
| thesnark | Wow | 07:46 |
| thesnark | His girlfriend is nice | 07:47 |
| thesnark | I wonder where you find women like that | 07:47 |
| JayDugger | kanzure, that'd have more impressiveness without the past tense. :) | 07:47 |
| thesnark | ^ that too | 07:47 |
| JayDugger | The Internet: it's not just for pornography anymore. | 07:47 |
| JayDugger | They might have met on-line, thesnark. | 07:47 |
| kanzure | the past tense is because les has gone missing for the past week | 07:47 |
| JayDugger | Oh. | 07:47 |
| parolang | So...Second Life is like IRC, except with added commentary about what other people are wearing. | 07:51 |
| kanzure | :( | 07:51 |
| kanzure | i read through most of the log.. it was pretty useless | 07:52 |
| thesnark | parolang I disagree, I think there is a nice concept to it | 07:52 |
| thesnark | the issue imo is a poor user ability to make what they're thinking about in the space they have | 07:52 |
| thesnark | parolang so actually yeah right now it might just be like IRC | 07:52 |
| thesnark | but I think it _can_ be much more | 07:52 |
| parolang | What's the concept? A 3D game with poor gameplay. | 07:52 |
| kanzure | thesnark: so, for promise pyramid or project projector, i was thinking that people could either "do something" for the project (and promise some sort of service) or pony up some sort of microdonation | 07:52 |
| thesnark | also, use opensim :p | 07:52 |
| JayDugger | SL: An MMO with property-rights for its users. | 07:53 |
| thesnark | ew, really? I didn't realize people could own stuff | 07:53 |
| parolang | Ah right, the virtual economy. | 07:53 |
| JayDugger | SL predates Opensim, IIRC. | 07:53 |
| thesnark | kind of defeats the purpose of a virtual environment | 07:53 |
| JayDugger | How so? | 07:53 |
| thesnark | in a virtual environment there is almost no scarcity | 07:54 |
| thesnark | you can make and do whatever you want | 07:54 |
| kanzure | TCrown: were you the one wanting to set up the money for a prize/competition for an open source smt machine plus pcb manufacturing capacity? | 07:54 |
| thesnark | kanzure that sounds like a good line of thought for project projector but I feel like we should set it up to have a "framework" where users can add functionality to the pyramid | 07:55 |
| thesnark | kanzure there are many social functions for the pyramid probably | 07:55 |
| thesnark | kanzure of course including tasks and donations | 07:55 |
| thesnark | but I'm willing to bet we can't think of all of them by ourselves | 07:56 |
| thesnark | let the users do it | 07:56 |
| kanzure | i agree | 07:56 |
| thesnark | :D This is really an exciting idea for me | 07:56 |
| kanzure | "you must become the sky" (for the pyramids and bubbles to pop within) | 07:56 |
| JayDugger | thesnark--what's the difference between low cost of creation and low cost of duplication & distribution | 07:56 |
| JayDugger | ?, even | 07:56 |
| thesnark | I am working on a proposal for the next month though | 07:57 |
| thesnark | so I may not really be able to contribute until July | 07:57 |
| JayDugger | This is a minor point, so if you've better things to do, please ignore it. :) | 07:57 |
| kanzure | JayDugger: did you see my arm? | 07:57 |
| kanzure | http://designfiles.org/~bryan/photos/puma560/2010-05-28_puma500.jpg | 07:58 |
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| thesnark | JayDugger hm I'm not sure I understand where confusion could be about the differences | 07:58 |
| thesnark | JayDugger one is distribution and the other is production, right? | 07:58 |
| * thesnark is confused | 07:58 | |
| parolang | kanzure: awesome :) | 07:58 |
| kanzure | hell yeah! | 07:59 |
| thesnark | JayDugger I want to see where you're going with this | 07:59 |
| thesnark | kanzure minor, unrelated topic: are you not using chanserv to moderate this channel? Why are you not op? | 08:00 |
| JayDugger | Good Lord, what will you do with that? | 08:00 |
| thesnark | JayDugger that's what I wanted to know :) | 08:01 |
| kanzure | thesnark: because i didn't register the channel, i left the channel while other people were still in here | 08:01 |
| kanzure | i tried to register the channel through the freenode sysops but they haven't done anything | 08:02 |
| thesnark | I guess we can just use /ignore for spammers | 08:02 |
| kanzure | yep | 08:02 |
| kanzure | btw please put flamt on /ignore | 08:02 |
| parolang | JayDugger: I think he needs a robotic arm to hold the fire extinguisher. | 08:05 |
| kanzure | i am going to be using it for pick-and-place shipping/packaging stuff | 08:05 |
| kanzure | right now it's serving as a really, really amazing lamp | 08:06 |
| parolang | heh | 08:06 |
| JayDugger | :) | 08:08 |
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| thesnark | Ok, srsly I need to get cracking on this proposal work. bbl. | 08:15 |
| JayDugger | Keep up the good work, thesnark. | 08:16 |
| JayDugger | I need to finish moving, myself. | 08:16 |
| JayDugger | Good morning, everyone. | 08:16 |
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| kanzure | hm who would be able to answer questions about antlr and parsers for me? | 08:19 |
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| kanzure | you know, the quickest way i can see to get openscad to do a STEP export is if i include some dependencies on opencascade | 08:58 |
| kanzure | http://cgal-python.gforge.inria.fr/ | 09:21 |
| kanzure | hm i didn't know python did templates | 09:25 |
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| kanzure | http://www.synbioworld.org/ *yawn* | 09:45 |
| kanzure | wtf is "bannerzest" and why are they using it | 09:46 |
| kanzure | fenn: les might be dead, do you know the phone numbers for his other room mates? | 09:49 |
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| thesnark | kanzure do you use google wave at all | 10:38 |
| thesnark | kanzure I want to share some thoughts and ideas with you | 10:38 |
| thesnark | If you check your account I am writing some stuff | 10:40 |
| kanzure | fenn: nevermind, i found him playing with a nailgun at the shop | 10:46 |
| kanzure | thesnark: i don't understand Swarm.. how is this different from conventional scaling procedures for clusters | 10:50 |
| thesnark | the computations can be different from a map/reduce | 10:50 |
| thesnark | currently systems that scale are built entirely around map/reduce | 10:51 |
| kanzure | is there audio to this? | 10:51 |
| thesnark | Yes | 10:51 |
| thesnark | you should hear his voice | 10:51 |
| kanzure | blah | 10:51 |
| kanzure | what if i don't want to? | 10:51 |
| thesnark | haha | 10:51 |
| thesnark | then don't :) | 10:51 |
| kanzure | okay, so the explanation part isn't by voice? | 10:51 |
| thesnark | It is by voice | 10:51 |
| thesnark | he explains as the slides progress | 10:52 |
| thesnark | I can hear the audio O_o | 10:52 |
| kanzure | oh, no you don't understand, i don't /want/ to hear the audio | 10:52 |
| kanzure | but i didn't know if it's there or not | 10:52 |
| thesnark | but the advantage of swarm is basically scalable computation that isn't restricted to map/reduce | 10:52 |
| thesnark | so like maybe db ops | 10:53 |
| thesnark | or anything | 10:53 |
| kanzure | it looks an awful lot like openmosix | 10:53 |
| kanzure | well, nevermind | 10:53 |
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| Alystair | oh there we go | 10:53 |
| kanzure | there seems to be no simple explanation of openmosic up on the net | 10:54 |
| thesnark | except its a programming language | 10:54 |
| Alystair | found you again Bryan :) | 10:54 |
| thesnark | and there's not really any setup other than installing some kind of daemon on each node | 10:54 |
| kanzure | why should it be a programming language? isn't it just scala with saved continuations? i.e. thus a part of the jvm | 10:54 |
| thesnark | no | 10:54 |
| kanzure | hello Alystair | 10:54 |
| kanzure | apparently we talked in #startups about zotero.org, papers, and some bio stuff | 10:55 |
| thesnark | It's not that simple, there are many unsolved problems with it. And its a programming language so you only have to worry about the problem and not the setup | 10:55 |
| kanzure | okay | 10:55 |
| * Alystair is doing research into tonsils and strep throat | 10:55 | |
| thesnark | For example | 10:55 |
| thesnark | swarm was trying to figure out a good load balancing algo last I checked | 10:55 |
| thesnark | its *totally* distributed | 10:55 |
| kanzure | didn't freenet have that sort of thing? | 10:55 |
| Alystair | kanzure: bio stuff is cool in this chan? | 10:56 |
| thesnark | meh sorta | 10:56 |
| thesnark | freenet uses bloom filters | 10:56 |
| thesnark | not really a good fit at all for swarm | 10:56 |
| kanzure | Alystair: absolutely! can you pm me an email address and i'll linkdump you stuff that we talk about? | 10:56 |
| kanzure | thesnark: it's really weird.. someone here at ut claims to had solo-invented freenet.. and it's not ian | 10:56 |
| Alystair | can't hurt | 10:56 |
| kanzure | it's uh, blu | 10:56 |
| kanzure | er, blofidjoifd | 10:56 |
| Alystair | maybe you could automate that process ;) | 10:56 |
| kanzure | blano? | 10:56 |
| Alystair | so I could go !emailme kanzure | 10:56 |
| Alystair | and blammo | 10:56 |
| Alystair | it sends everything ;) | 10:56 |
| thesnark | kanzure if they published their first paper describing it before him then fine, if not punch them in the dick | 10:56 |
| kanzure | depends on your email address | 10:57 |
| thesnark | besides freenet is just an implementation of a broader idea...saying you "invented" it is a little silly | 10:57 |
| kanzure | invented/built/made-it-happen | 10:57 |
| thesnark | lulz that's a good one | 10:57 |
| thesnark | I'd like to know their name and see their work | 10:57 |
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| thesnark | they are probably full of crap | 10:58 |
| thesnark | like most people | 10:58 |
| kanzure | brandon wiley | 10:58 |
| thesnark | anonymous, resistant data networks are going to get more and more common, its like saying you invented the concept of file sharing | 10:58 |
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| thesnark | or "peer to peer" | 10:59 |
| Alystair | anyway, I've been getting strep one every year or so and I've been trying to figure out what makes it so certain, I never get sick from anything else... so I'm looking into how tonsils might be involved | 10:59 |
| kanzure | Alystair: email sent | 10:59 |
| kanzure | hmm i got an email from "ben moskowitz" (maybe it's one of fenn's fake identities) | 11:00 |
| Alystair | thanks | 11:00 |
| thesnark | also, the complete commit history of freenet is online and if you look, "sanity" clearly did _all_ of the commits when freenet was being created | 11:00 |
| thesnark | sanity == Ian Clarke | 11:00 |
| kanzure | k | 11:01 |
| thesnark | so just punch him in the dick | 11:01 |
| kanzure | it's too small :( | 11:01 |
| thesnark | http://www.campheatwole.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/the-berenstain-bears-get-kicked-in-the-dick.jpg | 11:02 |
| thesnark | Anyway, give me your thoughts :p | 11:02 |
| kanzure | dunno | 11:03 |
| kanzure | it might be interesting as a research project, at best | 11:03 |
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| Alystair | guh looks like if I go to my doc with my own observations he'll probably want to get my tonsils removed | 11:16 |
| Alystair | seriously I need a better GP | 11:17 |
| Alystair | I mean it would fix the problem but I get a bad feeling from it | 11:18 |
| lepton_ | I've had similar issues. If you've taken a lot of antibiotics from previous illnesses, that can make you significantly more susceptable to further infections | 11:19 |
| lepton_ | You can try taking probiotics | 11:19 |
| Alystair | well, I don't get sick from anything other than this, every year or so | 11:20 |
| Alystair | the antibiotics work but it comes back every year now | 11:20 |
| Alystair | so I got a feeling my tonsils have something to do with it | 11:20 |
| lepton_ | Yeah, but if you keep taking antibiotics to solve the same problem, you're both not giving your body a chance to develop it's own immunity, and you're eliminating the populations of healthy bacteria that would normally prevent bad bacteria from overgrowing | 11:21 |
| lepton_ | at least this is stuff my Doctor's talked about in the past year | 11:21 |
| lepton_ | since I've had similar problems :) | 11:21 |
| lepton_ | I have no medical background | 11:21 |
| lepton_ | much better with machines and computers | 11:21 |
| Alystair | same | 11:21 |
| * Alystair just happens to be pretty good at connecting dots | 11:22 | |
| Alystair | http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE52T4MB20090330 <- this is fun because it might show a real issue and side effect or it could just be the diet of soft foods after the operation | 11:49 |
| Alystair | that the parents feed the children to make them feel better | 11:49 |
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| Alystair | bah, Tonsillectomy it is. | 12:02 |
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| Alystair | there are some days that I'd love to have my own fiber optic endoscope :( | 12:11 |
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| lepton_ | I think there's a USB endoscope kit out there for $100 or so | 12:20 |
| lepton_ | But I only vaguely remember it from a blog a year back or so | 12:20 |
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| fenn | kanzure: you could try emailing doug thome at tolgewood@yahoo.com | 13:00 |
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| kanzure | back from my meetings today | 13:29 |
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| kanzure | fenn: i found les at the shop, so he's definitely not dead | 13:30 |
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| dustbin | that's good I was getting a bit worried about him | 14:07 |
| kanzure | http://www.singularitysummit.com/program is it that time of year again? | 14:12 |
| kanzure | also, how did they get steve mann? | 14:12 |
| kanzure | and why is eliezer speaking about intelligence augmentation? he hates that | 14:16 |
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| egeste | fine | 14:27 |
| egeste | im here | 14:27 |
| kanzure | :) | 14:28 |
| splicer | I see the singularity summit has both James Randi and Kurzweil... an intresting combination | 14:36 |
| thesnark | ok rant time | 14:47 |
| thesnark | Why do people not get that the ipad and ebook readers are two different products? | 14:48 |
| thesnark | ipad is for douches who like media and web browsing, ebook readers use new displays to give eyes a 'paper' experience | 14:48 |
| thesnark | two | 14:48 |
| thesnark | different | 14:48 |
| thesnark | things | 14:48 |
| splicer | two different things for about 5min | 14:49 |
| thesnark | hm? | 14:49 |
| splicer | ... future readers won't make the distinction | 14:49 |
| thesnark | So you're saying a product similar to the ipad with a paper display will be produced? | 14:50 |
| splicer | not e-paper maybe.. but something similar | 14:51 |
| dustbin | probably a hybrid display | 14:51 |
| dustbin | one of those high res black and white and lower res color | 14:51 |
| splicer | answer me this instead... why do people still collect books? | 14:51 |
| kanzure | obsessive compulsive disorder | 14:52 |
| thesnark | nah, I prefer paper for the same reason the new displays were made | 14:52 |
| splicer | how many books do you fit on a 32 gig usb today?... 5000? | 14:52 |
| thesnark | monitors do kill my eyes | 14:52 |
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| thesnark | splicer meh depends on the format | 14:53 |
| Utopiah | splicer: people are tactile, they have to touch tangible objects, even if their content is symbolic | 14:54 |
| thesnark | ^ I guess a little of that too | 14:54 |
| thesnark | not much though....a keyboard/mouse combo is really enough in that dept | 14:55 |
| thesnark | really its mostly the display | 14:55 |
| splicer | thesnark: if it's text it's probably more like 500K books | 14:55 |
| kanzure | hey, can anyone help me figure out how to prioritize tasks on a long todo list (but for a single day)? | 14:55 |
| kanzure | all of the tasks need to be accomplished in a single day, and none of them are dependent on order or location | 14:55 |
| thesnark | hm priorities are pretty much your call, right kanzure? | 14:55 |
| thesnark | ok | 14:55 |
| kanzure | yeah but what's my damn choice function | 14:55 |
| Utopiah | kanzure: no, but I tried http://fabien.benetou.fr/Cognition/PriorityByEconomicalSystem | 14:56 |
| neobii_ | is the a* algorithm involved? | 14:56 |
| kanzure | no | 14:56 |
| kanzure | i hope not | 14:56 |
| kanzure | i guess i can do an optimization function on priorities and figure out what the local minima and maxima are for different types of tasks | 14:57 |
| kanzure | and then over time i can learn what values to assign as the priority values | 14:57 |
| splicer | 80/20 rule maybe | 15:02 |
| splicer | prune the task list | 15:02 |
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| kanzure | because thesnark asked for it, | 15:40 |
| kanzure | here's my "unnecessarily ridiculously huge manufacturing equipment" youtube playlist | 15:41 |
| kanzure | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnIvhlKT7SY&feature=PlayList&p=0EB93E6E02E5CF17&playnext_from=PL&index=0 | 15:41 |
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| kanzure | hello Tuna_Can | 16:30 |
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| Alystair | kanzure: I see you and raise you my own playlists : http://www.youtube.com/user/alystair#p/p | 16:31 |
| lepton_ | Beautiful video | 16:38 |
| lepton_ | I want a 5+ Axis machining center | 16:38 |
| Alystair | I want an everything room | 16:42 |
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| Alystair | a noah's ark of all construction devices | 16:42 |
| Alystair | 2 of everything | 16:42 |
| Alystair | an open lab | 16:43 |
| kanzure | "noah's kit" | 16:44 |
| * Alystair salivates | 16:44 | |
| lepton_ | We just need one, and to put it in space such that we can make more | 16:47 |
| Alystair | yeah, no. | 16:47 |
| lepton_ | Well, that's my plan, at least | 16:47 |
| Alystair | cost of bringing raw materials up would be a bitch :) | 16:47 |
| lepton_ | up? | 16:47 |
| Alystair | you said space | 16:48 |
| lepton_ | All the raw material of the univese is already up there! | 16:48 |
| Alystair | unless noah's kit involves a space elevator | 16:48 |
| lepton_ | We need to get away from the paradigm of harvesting materials from the earth | 16:48 |
| Alystair | ._. | 16:48 |
| lepton_ | :) | 16:48 |
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| kanzure | lepton_: or we can just do a few well-placed nuclear strikes against the earth so that we don't have to bother about "getting into orbit" | 17:22 |
| lepton_ | The (origional) Orion project was pretty compelling, IMO | 17:25 |
| lepton_ | arguably more agreeable than conventional chemical rockets from an environmental perspective, too | 17:26 |
| kanzure | i hate the namespace violation too | 17:26 |
| lepton_ | yeah! right? | 17:26 |
| lepton_ | Though I have greater hopes for Inertia fusion based rockets, though | 17:26 |
| lepton_ | ^wow, I must not be paying attention to what I'm typing | 17:27 |
| thesnark | kanzure the latter option sometimes seems overwhelmingly more likely | 17:34 |
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| kanzure | lepton_: does your startup have an awesome 1980s-style shop video for itself? | 17:40 |
| kanzure | like: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8s3IlIE4Yuk&feature=PlayList&p=0EB93E6E02E5CF17&playnext_from=PL&index=9 | 17:40 |
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| lepton_ | No, but we could make a video like that. I'm imagining "The Final Countdown" playing throughout the video | 18:02 |
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| thesnark | goodnight hplus | 18:54 |
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| kanzure | "There never was or will be safety or certainty in any ultimate sense, from the point of view of any (necessarily subjective) agent. So let us each embrace this aspect of reality and strive, not for safety but for meaningful growth." | 19:28 |
| kanzure | nsh: *poke* | 19:29 |
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| kanzure | http://designfiles.org/~bryan/images/oversized_load.png | 20:38 |
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| kanzure | the description of the video here scares me: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGP3A_i6E6g | 21:27 |
| kanzure | and the video is weird too | 21:27 |
| kanzure | "direct digital control" o.O | 21:28 |
| kanzure | using a laser cutter to cut paper, and then chemical treatment to turn it "into wood"? | 21:30 |
| kanzure | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iH0pJgEy6DU&feature=related | 21:30 |
| kanzure | (at 1:08) | 21:31 |
| kanzure | ah, here we go, the playlist link: | 21:41 |
| kanzure | http://www.youtube.com/user/kanzure#grid/user/0EB93E6E02E5CF17 | 21:41 |
| kanzure | just in case i'm not the only one mesmorized by some of these | 21:42 |
| kanzure | fenn: can i just pay you to do an actually gpl-licensed csg library in python? | 21:44 |
| kanzure | instead of you working somewhere? | 21:44 |
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| Utopiah | ( recommended DIY sleep studies at ~min17 of Nutrients for Better Mental Performance http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-PA-buwI3q4 Steven Wm. Fowkes, Google Tech Talk 2009 ) | 23:58 |
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